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Ask Slashdot: Working As an IT Contractor In a War Zone?
Capt. Picklepants writes "I have been feeling malaise about the IT and technical job market in the United States. I'm interested in doing some IT work for our government in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Africa. I've heard it pays very well. Got any advice, or pointers, aside from the usual combing corporate websites and social networking?"
There's lots of world to see outside US and its war zones. Go to China, Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore or Philippines. It's extremely easy for a westerner to find jobs in Asia if they just know something, especially in IT. Life is generally more relaxing too. I've done just that, but I don't work for anyone, I work as freelancer over the internet.
However, there's a huge amount of employers that can hire you, if you rather take a stable paycheck. This includes both westerners who have set up companies and moved there and also companies by locals. IT is huge in Asia. The funny thing is, it's also a job widely appreciated by local women, and often you find women working in IT. Really knowledgeable ones, too.
On top of that you get great weather, nice people and relaxing lifestyle. You might get marginally lower wage, but then again the cost of living is insanely smaller too.
NBC showed a piece on this Monday night. Even lesser employees were getting tons of security. The employees seemed to welcome it out of nervousness. The NBC piece was part of a series on the official withdrawal from IRAQ. Even after that about 20,000 embassy employees and contractors remain in a Baghdad and Basara consulates for "diplomatic" reasons. There are several tens of thousands of troops on bases in the area that could move on short basis for an aided evacuation or such.
You won't find many positions unless you have security clearance already. Companies do not want to pay for the cost of a background investigation, hence their preference for former government (military) employees.
I'd consider that your "malaise" problem might be greater in a war zone. Your freedom of movement is constrained; you're limited to corporate-cartoon-kitsch America; and you're surrounded by an alien culture that (for safety reasons) you are unable to freely immerse yourself within.
If you were a dude that liked to save money and read books in your spare time, then it might be a good thing. But if you've got malaise now, just imagine what you'd get in Afghanistan.
Also, pretend to be from Canada, they might not kidnap you quite as readily.
You also might not want to wear that crucifix...those peace loving muslims don't care much for other religious stuff in their towns.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
As someone who's been over there a number of times, my advice is to invest in some good clothing for there. As crazy as it seems, the best way to beat the heat in the desert is to cover up. Long, loose pants made from lightweight fabric and similar for shirts (along with silk-weight polypro undershirts) will keep you significantly more comfortable than your typical cotton t-shirt. Also, a good wide-brimmed boonie hat is worth it.
Basically, the idea is to keep the sun off your skin, the air flowing, and wick the sweat away from your skin.
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
I worked in Qatar (not in IT), which is technically a war zone by USG standards. It is also the wealthiest country on the planet and obscenely safe. I didn't even bother to lock my door. The pay there was good, but not insanely good. I looked into IT work in Afghanistan and would have made ~$300K. That job would require two things. 1) A USG security clearance and 2)willingness to literally be on the front lines and get shot at. Not all war zone are created equal. Pay will reflect that.
Now you will probably hear a lot of folks talking about the danger etc. Yes, it is a war zone, but your odds of being killed are very low. I'd say your two biggest concerns in a place like Iraq are: 1) dying in a traffic accident, which would be just as likely in India of SE asia. 2) Dying of boredom. THAT is the big issue. These places are boring. And the security you are forced to endure will piss off most geeks. You see it, it is designed to slow you and everyone else down. There is a lot of theater and it can get tedious.
That said, If you spend all your free time indoors reading obscure tech blogs, then I say go for it.
I thought that working in IT was, by definition, working in a war zone.
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
The money isn't worth it if you wind up kidnapped and looking at a video camera while they cut your head off.
Look at working in Europe or if you want to try the language China, even better Australia routinely hires for IT and they speak English (sort of).
Is the money worth it if you're killed in a car accident during rushhour traffic on your way to work in *insert city here* USA?
Life is a risk, death is always a risk, and the statistics about risk are often pretty far off what people estimate in their gut.
Stay away from war zones.
Jobs in these areas are glamorous - they seem exciting and adventurous, but in reality they are extremely boring and needlessly dangerous. If that's not enough, you'll feel socially excluded because you're not a soldier in a place where almost everyone else is and you're disconnected from "real life" where civilians like yourself thrive. On top of all that, working in rigid bureaucratic organizations like the armed forces can drive people up the wall. You'll feel like you're immersed in stupid. Watch Generation Kill for a very credible illustration of that.
In summary, don't do it.
Works for me.
Seriously. They have interwebs and everything out there. Leave the kidnappings to the oil engineers and charity workers.
I worked in the Middle East as a contractor for six years. Two and a half of those years I was under fire in Iraq. Here is some advice:
Be prepared to live well outside your comfort zone. If you are working in a nice place, you will have shower trailers and restroom trailers... but most places are not nice.
Temperatures are extreme. I saw multiple thermometers claim a temp of 142F one day (July 2005 Baghdad). None of the official reports mention temps that high. Afghanistan is not so hot but it gets MUCH colder.
Be prepared to keep your wits about you as the explosive devices start flying over barriers and blowing shit (and humans) up nearby. I was able to put up with it for two and half years at which point I knew that if I stayed longer, I was going to change (permanently?) mentally in ways that were not desirable. You can only ignore the possibility of getting shredded for only so long... One of my coworkers died in Fallujah in... 2006 I think. He was the only employee from my company to die. A mortar round essentially landed on his head. His coworkers had to clean his brains and bone fragments out of the equipment to get it operational again. Could you do that?
You will not really be making that much money even if it seems like a lot compared to what you are used to. Do NOT spend all of your money. There will be some surprises down the road and you want the cash to be available.
More about money: You will not be making that much money forever. I knew several people who bought $600,000+ houses and then were not offered to be recontracted (either due to the company losing the contract or that person was just not wanted). Live a lifestyle like you have now and when everything is done, you will be well off. If you choose to live the high life, expect a harsh period of ... ahem... "lifestyle readjustment".
Take a durable laptop with you. If you do not play 3D video games, see if you can find one without a fan (dust buildup). Bring lots of large capacity laptop style external drives with you.
I am sure there is more. If you want, I can even refer you if you send me your resume. I have done that with two people from Slashdot already. One died (statistically very very unlikely but the real world does not care about statistics). :(
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
I hear Zynga will be hiring soon.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
I considered a contract that would involve IT work in Iraq, a few years ago. I saw it as a way to help rebuild and atone for my nation's stupidity. Don't judge the guy asking the question too harshly without knowing his motives.
I'm a Major in the National Guard, a Signal Officer currently deployed to Afghanistan. That whole thing about getting kidnapped is B.S. All of the contractors here fly on the same helicopters that we do, or drive in the same convoys that we do. They get the same security and eat in the same DFACs. The only real difference is that they don't go around armed, unless they're the Law Enforcement Professionals (LEPs) or security contractors.
For the most part they stay on the Forward Operating Bases (FOBs) just like those of us not actually out on a mission. They work six months and go home on leave (I can't remember if it's 2 weeks or a month). It's all in their contract.
When I finished my Iraq tour, I was offered $250k per year to take over managing the I.T. section at a major Iraqi FOB. I was bone-weary from the deployment and just wanted to go home, so I didn't take them up on it. One of my soldiers here was offered $125k to come back and work in the I.T. department at BAF after the tour. She's still thinking about it.
Ignore most of the B.S. that's being posted here, they have zero idea what they're talking about. The pay is high, as is the security. The downside is the hours that you work. 12-18 hour days, with no days off is the norm. It gets to you after awhile.
Believe it or not, one of the things that really gets to you over here is the lack of GREEN. At least the FOBs I've been to, I am SICK and TIRED of sand and gravel, tan and grey. My wife emails me pictures of our lawn so i have something green to look at...
Expect jealousy from the non-contractor types, like enlisted soldiers. I was in their boots (admittedly stateside) and we treated the contractors with exactly the required level of professionalism and otherwise not a droplet more as we hated them for doing our jobs for "ten times the pay" (actually it was probably only twice, but no reasoning with jealousy) ... Its a difficult workplace environment. If you make 10x what a grunt makes, expect them to really onload on you if you make a microscopic mistake. Also expect to listen politely and agreeably like a bartender, about how they are stuck there for years whereas you could theoretically stand up, walk out and leave; 19 year old soldiers don't understand the whole concept of "contract" and "having to pay the mortgage back home" and "having to pay for food and medical care" very well, so they really do think you can do that...
On the other hand, in a warzone, maybe there is more camaraderie?
The most important thing you can do to make friends, is figure out what the grunts are not easily able to do and then "help them out" in a way that gets no one in trouble, untraceable, is more or less legal or at least "blind eye" situation, and makes you friends. Back in the day, civilian contractors were "expected" to provide us with warez for our personal laptops in the pre-wide public availability of internet access (note personal laptop in Army speak, is like "personal weapons", things you own and paid for and use solely in your downtime, not personal as in merely army issued "work laptop", it would be dumb to mess with army issued hardware). Also they were expected to provide us with alcohol for all party reasons, not sure how well that works overseas in Islamic countries, but the "rich contractors" were expected to buy us rounds at the bar, not the other way around. On the other hand don't do anything stupid with serial number items or or using classified rated hardware to run unclassified level software. Also be aware of certain army traditions, like you'd share ammo with your buddy if he was out, or you'd share food if he had none, or you'd share medical supplies if he had a sucking chest wound, so expect near violent response if you don't share your mp3 files with anyone who asks, thats just kinda how it is in the Army. Same with pr0n jpegs and movie files. Also paperback books. If there is a paperback book in your possession, and you are not currently reading it, its a major social error to not instantly hand it to someone who wants to read it, so don't bring your signed 1st edition copy of LOTR or something and expect to hoard it until you return home, unless you do literally read it over and over the whole time.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Offers to work in combat zones initially look great. They'll back a dump truck full of money up to your house and all you have to do is go have an adventure overseas for 12-18 months. Woo!
The reality is that you'll be working 7 days a week, 18 hours a day. It's expected of you, everyone is doing it, and if you did try to work 8 hour days you would quickly go nuts from boredom because there is nothing to do. There are only so many magazines and videos and games around. Your office will be hot like an oven from all the desktop machines. If you're lucky the server closets will be a little cooler. You will be working harder, in those 18 hours a day, then you've ever had to work before.
If you want that kind of life, get an IT job on an oil rig. Or take a break from IT and go work on an Alaskan fishing boat. The hours, money, boredom, and stress levels are basically the same.
Some things to bear in mind: The money is good, but only with the completion bonus -- if you don't think you can do it, don't bother applying. The hours are BRUTAL (and that's part of why the money is so good. Even if you're 'salaried' you get paid by the hour and its 84 hours a week until your R&R. Oh . . . and don't assume you'll have an internet connection, although I know several people out there who banded together to buy their own satellite connection while in theatre, and in Baghdad, at least, they had their own private (free!) WoW server at one point . . .
I've worked in the defense sector and although I have not signed up for one of these gigs, I know plenty of people that have. It's true that if you are worth your salt (or look good on paper), can obtain a secret clearance and willing to sacrifice a year of your life working 15 hours a day, every day... you can make $250 in a year in Afghanistan. Good places to look are the company websites: L3, SRI and STG - there are many more. Also job fairs in military towns. HOWEVER, if you really want to do this, get on while the getting is good. As you may know, the US trying to fold up it's many operations in SWA and other combat theaters, plus while the government is going broke, it's going to be hard for the DoD to justify paying a quarter million a year for each contractor working in these places... knowing what I know from my days in the DoD, I suspect this gravy train will come to screeching halt... and soon.
I know this, because you're asking the question on slashdot.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
The money isn't worth it if you wind up kidnapped and looking at a video camera while they cut your head off.
Look at working in Europe or if you want to try the language China, even better Australia routinely hires for IT and they speak English (sort of).
Is the money worth it if you're killed in a car accident during rushhour traffic on your way to work in *insert city here* USA?
Life is a risk, death is always a risk, and the statistics about risk are often pretty far off what people estimate in their gut.
Comparing the risk of getting killed in a car accident with the risk of getting (most likely violently) killed in a war zone (in particular in a war zone where foreigners get kidnapped and forced to watch a video camera while their heads get brutishly sawed off with a butcher knife), that's pretty retarded to say the least.
Sorry but getting killed in a car accident is a rather brutal and painful event and can be slow. A beheading (even a crude one) is still relatively quick.
That said, the risk of going to work in Iraq and mostly staying in the green zone is probably as safe or safer than living in a higher-crime area in the U.S (NY or Chicago for example). If you doubt me (and you probably still do), take a look at the Top Gear Christmas Special from last year. They drove around the northern countryside in convertibles and eventually decided it was silly to wear their helmets and flak jackets. Yes there might have been some armed security with them off camera, but they were mixed in with the locals pretty well.
Working in a war zone is not for everyone. The money is great, the weather is terrible, the hours are almost as bad as the weather, and not everyone can handle the stress of the occasional rocket hitting the FOB (Forward Operating Base). The good news is that you will probably never leave the FOB except to get in and out of country, so you are almost as safe as in the US. When I worked at Camp Victory, the joke was that it was safer there than Detroit, but I don't know if that was true. The biggest cause of death was traffic accidents, so it could have been true. Keep in mind that it's one thing to know that intellectually, but another thing to experience it.
Iraq is being spun down, so you will get to miss out on 130F heat (only 110 at night!), the most bizarre rainy season I've ever seen (the mud is unbelievable), and dust storms must be experienced to be believed. I've only spent a few weeks total in Afghanistan, but my impression is that Khandahar was like Iraq but a little milder and with mountains. Bagram is even milder and seemed like a decent place to be.
The facilities will vary wildly depending on where you live. Major bases like Khandahar and Bagram have very good facilities, but smaller bases will be much more primitive. The food is surprisingly good but the internet even worse than you think it will be.
Bring a durable laptop, preferable with a large screen. This will probably be your only computer. You will make good money, so don't focus on price and just get the best one you can. Not every place can have a TV, I had to use a USB TV-in to hook up my XBox to my laptop, which worked surprisingly well. Don't bring anything you truly care about, as the dust ruins everything. When I came back I opened up both my laptop and XBox and they were so caked with dust I'm surprised the 1st gen XBox survived (it had heat problems in the best of situations). Find the lightest, coolest shirts you can, cargo pants, good sturdy boots, and a good pair of sunglasses. I also found a large, floppy hat to be useful. I looked like a dork, but I was a cool dork whose head was always in the shade.
If you have ever been in the military or worked for them, then you know a little of what to expect. If not, then be prepared for a very different office experience than exists anywhere else. Even if you are familiar with the military culture, a war zone is unlike anything else. Everyone is armed and there is a level of intensity that doesn't exist here in the states. It's very different, but I have found that people can get used to almost anything and even a war zone can become eventually become routine. The days will drag on forever, but the weeks will fly by.
The money is great, but you only make it while over there. I suggest getting some investment advice, set up a plan, and follow it. That is what I did, but unfortunately 2007 wasn't the best year for throwing over a hundred thousand dollars at the stock market. Even the best plan can be sabotaged by poor timing. Even with the bad stock market, I'm still looking at cutting several years off my retirement age.
Consider the tax benefits of staying a whole year. 330 days out of the US, and your first $85,000 (guess, I don't know what it currently is) is tax free. Less than 330 days, you don't get the tax break. Some shady or misinformed tax preparers have been known to try to pro-rate the break, but I've known a few people who got in trouble with the IRS for this.
I mentioned the stress of constant attack, but it bears repeating. I still jump when I hear a dumpster lid shut (it sounds spookily like a mortar hitting), and I've been home for four years now. Just relax, and remind yourself that you are inside the wire, the bad guys are outside it, and treat those soldiers and marines who go out on patrol with the respect they deserve.
Good luck! You are considering something that very, very few people will ever have the opportunity to do. I think of my time as an adventure and I'm very glad I went. If you have a security clearance, getting over there should be easy, but I'm not sure how things look if you don't.
> Also, pretend to be from Canada, they might not kidnap you quite as readily.
As a Canadian... STOP DOING THAT. Look, you Americans have messed things up, stop trading on our good name. Proudly proclaim that you're American so you can take the kidnapping/beating you deserve.
It's just getting really annoying when I go abroad, mention I'm Canadian, then have people assume I'm American.
Cars are not actively trying to kill their occupants.
Have you ever driven a pinto?
In order to be a war criminal, one has to actually, y'know, commit a war crime. Merely working for or serving in the military, even if the overall action is deemed illegal, doesn't meet that standard. You referenced the Nuremberg trials; you should familiarize yourself with the Nuremberg principles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Principles), paying particular attention to Principle VI and to the ruling from the Canadian Federal Court near the end of the article. The only one of the elements of Principle VI that could possibly apply would be the "Crimes against Peace", if we grant that the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq were illegal under international law (and that is not a given; I personally disapproved of US involvement in Iraq, and had mixed feelings about Afghanistan, but I don't think it's entirely clear that either was manifestly illegal). The Canadian ruling states, "An individual must be involved at the policy-making level to be culpable for a crime against peace ... the ordinary foot soldier is not expected to make his or her own personal assessment as to the legality of a conflict. Similarly, such an individual cannot be held criminally responsible for fighting in support of an illegal war, assuming that his or her personal war-time conduct is otherwise proper."
Not every soldier or civilian auxiliary who participates in a war that is determined to be against international law can or will be held liable for war crimes.
I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
I've had an interest recently in either Volunteering or Working in Emergency situations (like earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc.) around the world? Any tips on how to find that kind of work?
Honestly. It'll lower the chance of your getting shot somewhat.
Check your premises.
I've worked with two companies for contracts in Iraq. The first was ITT and it paid around 130K a year with bonuses. The pay was low but they give plenty of time off (which you shouldn't take if you want to max out your $) and are a good company to start with as they will hold your hand in getting you from the states to the AOR. If you don't have a military background and haven't worked overseas before then they might be a good option. Generally everyone else will pay more than them, so do look around for other companies. My second contract was also for work in Iraq (nearly identical work in fact) but paid over 250K a year. It was also nice that no pay was tied to completion bonuses so I wasn't stuck with any loss of pay if I had decided to go elsewhere. Speaking of, feel free to network like crazy when you get in country, and also to jump ship for another contract if you want. If you are wanting to work in IT then you will almost certainly require a security clearance. A Secret can be had in as few as 2-3 months if it's just a simple records check and you don't have anything too sketchy in your past. If you want more info on clearances and what can keep you from getting one then http://www.clearancejobs.com/ is a good site (run by DICE now I think). Also note that while you are earning a good salary (30-38$ an hour) you are also possibly working seven days a week twelve hours a day. You should also check on the uplift that the country you are looking at will get you. Uplift is a percentage of your pay that is added on to the hours you work (capped at the first 40 hours if you work with ITT) and will make a big difference in your take home pay. The State Dept sets these rates and currently the rates for Iraq and Afghanistan are the same at 70% but this may go down if Iraq becomes more stable after the troop withdrawl. Speaking of specific locations, your company will probably not be able to tell you where they are going to place you because they may not know where the openings will be by the time you finish your training and go through CRC ( http://www.campatterbury.in.ng.mil/NationalDeploymentCenter/tabid/1101/Default.aspx ). They may not even be able to tell you what country. If you want to maximize your chances of getting to Iraq (the lesser of two battlefronts) then you may want to stick with companys that are hiring for jobs with the Dept of State and not the Dept of Defense. If you really want to come away with something after your contracts are over then you should look for a company that is willing to sponsor you for a Top Secret position. It will take much longer to get (possibly more than a year) and you won't want to quit your current job until you have it but it is a great way to seperate yourself from others in a tough job market that is still going to be tough in a year or two when you get tired of working in a war zone :)
MooCow