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UK Police Test 'Temporarily Blinding' LASER
esocid writes "Called the SMU 100 it costs £25,000 and sends out a three-meter 'wall of light' that leaves anyone caught in it briefly unable to see. Designed by a former Royal Marine Commando, it was originally developed for use against pirates in Somalia. While tasers and CS gas work well over short distances the laser is said to be effective at up to 500 meters (1,640ft). Being targeted by the beam has been compared to staring into the sun before being forced to turn away. Paul Kerr, managing director of Clyde-based Photonic Security Systems, which came up with the design, said 'If you can't look at something you can't attack it.'"
hi-tech human abuse?
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy. Why does all these news always come from UK?
Mostly because the other places that test this first don't let the reports out.
I'm sure someone will figure out a way to reflect (mirror?) back to the source.
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
We already know how this plays out...
Unless, of course, you're also going to be revved up like a deuce (or wrapped up like a douche).
#DeleteChrome
Why does it look like a (laser) sniper rifle?
Why not just project goatse images to make everyone close their eyes?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I think suicide bombers would disagree.
from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
Is there any sort of eye protection for laser weapons like this that can be made inexpensively, for use by protesters and the like?
Something less unwieldy than welding glass, perhaps tuned to the laser's spectrum?
Past the first person with eye problems (particularly photosensitive people) being blinded permanently....
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Right. If the police aren't allowed to use this laser then they will have to shoot protesters. There is just no other way.
Wouldn't it be easier just to deploy those bulldozer thingies? Why beat around the bush?
love is just extroverted narcissism
Primary source:
http://www.un.org/millennium/law/xxvi-18-19.htm
And, links to the wikipedia articles (if that's not considered too circular):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_on_Blinding_Laser_Weapons
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
This will be very popular because blind people are sooooo much easier to hit with a baton.
Geneva Convention only applies to people you're at war with, not your own citizens.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Blinding laser weapons are specifically mentioned in the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons annex of the Geneva Conventions.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_on_Blinding_Laser_Weapons
And yes, it does make a specific distinction between temporary and permanant blindness, so this thing is almost certainly legal as far as this particular protocol goes.
I should point out though, that the UK police have never even resorted to using water cannons outside of Northern Ireland, and use of riot equipment is a very serious political issue here. Breaking out the doom rays on a crowd of protestors is not going to happen lightly, and if it did happen, it would not be brushed off or ignored afterwards.
hi-tech human abuse?
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy. Why does all these news always come from UK?
Dunno why they don't just use flashbulbs.
"Smile! You're under arrest!"
Does give a whole new meaning to Legally Blind, Blind Justice and Shedding a little light on the Crime.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
UK citizens should build their own and point them at all the cameras. Instant privacy.
Or auto-dimming welder's masks. Maybe paint a Guy Fawkes face on it.
If you can't please people: blind them.
Well, yeah, the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to citizens, only enemy troops.
Seriously, though - the US is smashing protests with riot police and trying to do away with habeus corpus, the UK is turning blinding weapons on its citizens, the rest of Europe has a lit fuse in its fiscal powder keg - maybe "business as usual" has run its course.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
They have guns in the UK?
I thought they only used those toy sticks and ran after people like in Benny Hill shows.
Right. If the police aren't allowed to use this laser then they will have to shoot protesters. There is just no other way.
Society under surveillance, blinded by the Met ... how much longer before V becomes reality?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Unless they're running for a train in London...
So it's like a flashbang but without the bang. That seems kind of... HOLY CRAP IT LOOKS LIKE A SNIPER RIFLE I WANT ONE!
If only there was list of fatal shootings by the British police out there that could dispel your ignorance...
http://www.amazon.com/Darkening-Welding-Helmet-Torch-Welders/dp/B000HKZ73I
hi-tech human abuse?
I wouldn't call UK police hi-tech humans, though.
Let me be the person that says it..
*WHOOSH!!*
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
As well as pretty much every COD player.
Flashbang = fire wildly in all directions.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I'd rather be lasered in the face than gassed or shot with bean bags or beaten
The mistake is thinking this is an either-or situation. First they blind you, then they beat the shit out of you. Now you can't ID which ones assaulted you even if you could get a criminal case going against them.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
which means they will use this "harmless" weapon without hesitation in situations where they previously wouldn't use any more force than handcuffs. back when all they had was a gun and a baton they tended not to pull a weapon unless you did first. we've seen this now with pepper spray, tazers, etc. the less lethal they are the more quickly they get pulled out.
remember that asshole lieutenant cop who gleefully pepper sprayed lots of peaceful protestors at once? he could try to make an excuse for that, at least if he weren't caught on video being such a dick. he would have had no excuse for gunning down these unarmed people in cold blood. that would have resulted in him on trial for murder and selfish pricks like him look after "Number One" better than that. that's why he didn't use his gun. but now he has neat little "relatively harmless" pain-compliance type of weapons at his disposal that don't produce pesky dead bodies that must be explained away.
they are becoming less and less like peace officers and more and more like militarized thugs every day. this is what you want? more toys for them? if you weren't such a simpleton you would understand why new weapons like this make the situation worse, not better.
This seems like a terribly ill-thought-out scheme(except in that it might succeed in separating some police departments from rather a lot of the public's money, in exchange for a slightly more rugged version of a standard green laser, in a butch sci-fi plastic rifle case...)
Unless the laser is a tightly focused dot(in which case it won't be much use against a crowd) its intensity will vary rapidly with distance. In order to not be a complete toy at operationally useful ranges, it will very likely be downright dangerous at closer ones. Luckily, cops are technical experts and models of restraint, so that won't prove to be a problem.
In a similar vein, since lasers are a reasonably common occupational/hobby hazard these days, laser-protective eyewear, designed for strong attenuation of the common laser type of your choice, with minimal impact on general vision, is cheap and readily available. In order to have any effect on somebody wearing such, you'd likely need alarmingly higher power levels than you would need to have the same effect on an unshielded subject. So, either ~$20 eyewear gains you immunity to this fancy tech toy, or this fancy tech toy is powerful enough to stun protected users and fry retinas on everybody else. Brilliant.
Normal civilians are prohibited from owning and using these devices ....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Lasers are pretty dangerous. Look at what happens with lasers not even designed to blind people: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2403814/Russian-concert-laser-show-blinds-30.html. Now you're going to trust something stronger in the hands of police and government? I got a bridge to sell you...
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
really!?
That's the logic?
What about if someone has a gun, they may just start firing towards the general direction of the blinding light, hitting innocent bystanders,...
prism turning their lazer into Rainbows: $ Priceless
the UK police have never even resorted to using water cannons outside of Northern Ireland
False.
This was a quite prominent issue during the London riots earlier this year. Even with arson and city-wide looting, and with the vehicles available, water cannons weren't used. The political effect of breaking a precedent and using water cannons in mainland england for the first time was considered too great, even when the alternative was to let parts of Croydon burn.
It is prohibited to employ laser weapons specifically designed, as their sole combat function or as one of their combat functions, to cause permanent blindness to unenhanced vision
Temporary != permanent. Which is why the US (and Britain) are already using these weapons in the field in combat.
Doesn't necessarily make it right, of course, just not a clear violation of basic human rights.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
One of the most depressing aspects of the Iraq war was the large number of civilian drivers that were fatally shot at check-points.
Don't laze me bro!
And you'all laughed at my foil hat last week! Now you see just how prepared I am! Suckers!
have you tried doing anything OTHER than welding while wearing a welding mask?
It virtually blinds you.
Yeah, yes I have. thats why I bought an autodarkening helm. They used to cost like ten times what a plain helm cost, now they're like 2 maybe 3 times.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Assuming it's only as bright as the sun this could work. I can look directly at the sun quite comfortably through a pair of $30 sunglasses.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
What if the protests are considering it to be a civil war? Then does the Geneva Convention kick in?
The Geneva Conventions only concern uniformed armies of sovereign nations in conflict. Basically, donning a uniform (and therefore identifying yourself as an active participant in the conflict) grants you certain protections above and beyond what a non-uniformed (often referred to as "unlawful", although the term does not actually appear in the conventions) combatant might expect. The Geneva Conventions don't really come into play in any domestic altercations, they only govern conflicts between sovereign nations that are signatories to the conventions. The closest the Conventions get is basically stating that anyone not covered as a non-combatant or lawful combatant is subject to the domestic laws of the sovereign nation that captured them.
SOunds like the device used in Looker.
Now we can immobilize EVERYONE within 500 meters whether they're doing anything wrong or not, such as journalists and other so-called "innocent bystanders". Surely any person within 500 meters of a public disturbance is up to no good. All good citizens always stay at home where they belong. What a jubilant triumph for the brave defenders of our glorious homeland!
Proverbs 21:19
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention
The relevant international treaty would be the Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons, but that only covers weapons that cause permanent blindness.
SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
No, in the US, they only get in trouble if it's a white cop in a black neighborhood shooting black people. And killing someone earns you 6 months paid vacation (administrative leave) while the incident is investigated, followed by a commendation for bravery in waiting so long to shoot or "making the hard choice to protect others." They don't even get a slap on the wrist, they get a massive paid vacation at full pay and a commendation.
Learn to love Alaska
This is not useful against protesters. The police use pepper spray on protestors to hurt and punish, not to protect themselves. A peaceful protestor siting with their arms linked can just close their eyes.
However, when it's done from a kilometer away, how will they identify who hosed the cameras? People already walk up and burn them with tires, which seems decidedly more risky.
So, in the last 30 years, the list of notable police incidents involving firearms can be listed on a single page. Is there a similar article for other countries for comparison. I can bet the US edition would be weeks reading.
What if the protests are considering it to be a civil war? Then does the Geneva Convention kick in?
Just because protesters consider a conflict to be a civil war doesn't count. For the Geneva conventions to kick in, the protesters must be organized against the current government, be have a military structure (e.g., chain of command that can give attack orders and surrender), be in actual control of some amount of territory (not just "occupy", provide at least minimal normal govermental functions) and exercise some sort of control over the population (have some reason that many of the folks in neigborhood you are occupying would recognize you as the government if you "won"). Otherwize, they are just civilian protesters and are outside the scope of the Geneva Conventions.
Now we've got the blinding light weapon, and the deafening sound weapon, and that Ray Gun that makes your skin feel like it's on fire. All this massive R&D going into novel crowd control technologies. It's almost as if the US Government anticipates needing fancy new riot gear. Wonder why that could be.
Dunno why they don't just use flashbulbs.
"Smile! You're under arrest!"
Does give a whole new meaning to Legally Blind, Blind Justice and Shedding a little light on the Crime.
No one wants to see a British smile.
'ere! 'e's got all 'is teeth sorted. Posh nob, 'e 'is. Give 'im an extra thump!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Except that in the US, even if somone is shoting at the police, 9/10 times if they kill somone, they get fired.
Bullshit. Name one instance. Police are practically never punished for anything they do here. If you managed to find a single instance it would be one in a million. Although there are exceptions to every rule, the cops in the US are much, much worse than their UK counterparts. When I leave my house I am much more afraid of the police than I am of any criminals. Cops are far more dangerous and violent. And if they attack you they also throw you in jail and file false charges against you just for fun.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
"The protesters were keeping the police from leaving"
Yet, you can clearly see the officer in the same video, going on the other side of the protester, walking over them casually without any difficulty, while waiving in his hand a can of pepper spray, just before spraying them.
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
Though to be fair I would rather go blind the natural way 'as God intended'. Shaking the meat! Choking the bishop... etc
Somalian pirates, uppity citizens, same thing.
Question everything
You mean Sergeant Pepper Spray.
Did you accidentally switch US and UK or something? Cops get away with shooting people in the US all the time. Unless the victim is already handcuffed and in the back of the cruiser, when a cop shoots someone in the US, they're put on paid administrative leave for a few weeks, then returned to duty. Maybe if it's really obvious that the cop had no business shooting the guy, he'll return to duty with a nasty letter in his file.
back when all they had was a gun and a baton they tended not to pull a weapon unless you did first. we've seen this now with pepper spray, tazers, etc. the less lethal they are the more quickly they get pulled out.
You must be talking about how it was in the UK or something, because here in the states they used to use bullets to break up riots, protests and strikes in the early 1900's. Back before there were non-lethal alternatives lethal methods were used, extensively.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
There's some sort of weird stupidity from the people buying these items for governments, so they believe all the hype about new gadgets, and don't ask what happens when the problem tries to route around it.
This is an excellent point. I mean forget about attacking the person who was pointing the weapon. Look at the big picture: Something terrible is wrong politically and a large mass of people are protesting it in a nonviolent way. You bring out your crowd control weapons. You disperse the protestors. Job done, right?
What do you think those people are going to do if you make nonviolent protesting unavailable? Thank you for your benevolence and then go home and give up? Forget all about the fact that they can't find a job and are heading for bankruptcy?
The protesters are not the problem. The protesters are the symptom. Fighting the symptom doesn't solve the problem. And not solving the problem will only give it enough time to turn into a disaster.
It is worse than that. FTA:
Similar devices have already been used by British and American troops in Afghanistan to help protect convoys from attack.
It seems that "normal civilians" are now being treated no differently than your average throat-cutting, convoy robbing, wife-whuppin', goat-fucking Taliban Mujahedin* in the Iraq or the Afghanistan. Yay for Democracy, Freedom and other Western Values.
_____
* This image of the Taliban is based on post-Soviet era Western media portrayal. Before that the Mujahedin were brave, just, honest and peace-loving farmers who were badly abused by the Bloody KGB and only kept goats for the milk and the meat.
You can find out how many people have been shot by police over the last 20 or so years here : http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody/police-shootings.
53 (about 2.6 a year). Compare that to other countries.
I see an easy way to combine this 'smell launcher' and 'taste catapult' into one device, using renewable resources. Can fire trucks plug into manholes for their source?
This. The police crack skulls and ask questions later. There was a recent eviction of travellers where one of them pushed a tazer through a fence and fired it blind, then kept pressing the trigger over and over again without seeing who he was electrocuting. Fortunately he missed and the needles landed in some earth, but we could easily have had another murder enquiry on our hands there.
Presumably if the police tried to assault you and in self defence you used some form of non-lethal weapon like a laser you would be set upon by his friends and eventually charged. Thugs join the police for this specific reason - they can kick the shit out of people for fun with almost total immunity, and even when they kill someone the ranks close and it gets covered up. It remains to be seen if the murder PC Hardwood will get away with it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That article shows four fatalities in ten years. Four.
Nationwide.
Compare that with New York, where eight fatalities in one year is reported as a record low. And NY is one of the US's safer large cities nowadays - the numbers in Chicago or Los Angeles are way higher.
I defy you to even find any figures for nationwide police shootings in the USA.
Its part of a pattern of using military weaponry against civilians. In The Battlefield Today? In Your Backyard Tomorrow.
Its part of a pattern of using military weaponry against civilians. In The Battlefield Today? In Your Backyard Tomorrow.
The company's that produce these military weapons have fewer places to sell their products.
,Black and just generally different to their way of thinking people you have a ready made market for your products.
Stuff like fewer wars and more country's starting to sign up to and believe in Geneva conventions puts a dampener on things.
You know Peace can be a bit of a pain in the arse.
But do not worry when you have a nation , Insert god fearing christian nation here, thats freaked out by Musilm's
I say they line up all the police and test it on them, first. If anyone decides to bow out, or has their vision permanently damaged due to exposure to this device, then they can't use it on civilians. Ever. Scrap it.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
but that is what trials are for, so again we'll see.
Some of us will, some of us won't.