Slashdot Mirror
UK Police Test 'Temporarily Blinding' LASER
esocid writes "Called the SMU 100 it costs £25,000 and sends out a three-meter 'wall of light' that leaves anyone caught in it briefly unable to see. Designed by a former Royal Marine Commando, it was originally developed for use against pirates in Somalia. While tasers and CS gas work well over short distances the laser is said to be effective at up to 500 meters (1,640ft). Being targeted by the beam has been compared to staring into the sun before being forced to turn away. Paul Kerr, managing director of Clyde-based Photonic Security Systems, which came up with the design, said 'If you can't look at something you can't attack it.'"
hi-tech human abuse?
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy. Why does all these news always come from UK?
Mostly because the other places that test this first don't let the reports out.
I'm sure someone will figure out a way to reflect (mirror?) back to the source.
Light seeking missiles.
Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
If you can't please people: blind them.
crazy dynamite monkey
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
We already know how this plays out...
Isn't the use of lasers for blinding enemy personnel against the Geneva Convention? What makes it sound like a good idea for use on your own Citizens if you can't use it against enemy infantry? Not to mention the lawsuits resulting from failures that wind up permanently blinding people.
What a bad idea.
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
Unless, of course, you're also going to be revved up like a deuce (or wrapped up like a douche).
#DeleteChrome
Why does it look like a (laser) sniper rifle?
Just don't let it be used by the traffic police!
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Why not just project goatse images to make everyone close their eyes?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Tell that to DareDevil
Large mirror. Optionally, parabolic.
I think suicide bombers would disagree.
from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
Slips on my $9.99 mirrored shades.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
'If you can't look at something you can't attack it.' ...Famous last words.
Is there any sort of eye protection for laser weapons like this that can be made inexpensively, for use by protesters and the like?
Something less unwieldy than welding glass, perhaps tuned to the laser's spectrum?
Just like baseball bats became a huge trend on Amazon during the UK riots, something tells me mirrored sunglasses may be the next big purchasing trend in the UK.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Past the first person with eye problems (particularly photosensitive people) being blinded permanently....
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Right. If the police aren't allowed to use this laser then they will have to shoot protesters. There is just no other way.
Used to stop speeding driver in 10, 9, 8,...
Mirrors.
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
Wouldn't it be easier just to deploy those bulldozer thingies? Why beat around the bush?
love is just extroverted narcissism
Nobody nukes a country, but plenty people die everyday in "armed conflicts". The less consequential you make your weapon without losing the effect, the more likely it's going to be used. Crowd control weapons will be used against us, people.
This will be very popular because blind people are sooooo much easier to hit with a baton.
hi-tech human abuse?
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy. Why does all these news always come from UK?
Dunno why they don't just use flashbulbs.
"Smile! You're under arrest!"
Does give a whole new meaning to Legally Blind, Blind Justice and Shedding a little light on the Crime.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
UK citizens should build their own and point them at all the cameras. Instant privacy.
aaannd... now that I know about this, I'll just put some cheap flip-up dark filter glass on my piratical AK's scope, and now I have a convenient aim point, even if I couldn't otherwise see you!
What is the wavelength of this laser? And were do I buy glasses? Thanks.
0x or or snor perron?!
They have guns in the UK?
I thought they only used those toy sticks and ran after people like in Benny Hill shows.
Right. If the police aren't allowed to use this laser then they will have to shoot protesters. There is just no other way.
Society under surveillance, blinded by the Met ... how much longer before V becomes reality?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Unless they're running for a train in London...
So it's like a flashbang but without the bang. That seems kind of... HOLY CRAP IT LOOKS LIKE A SNIPER RIFLE I WANT ONE!
If only there was list of fatal shootings by the British police out there that could dispel your ignorance...
Dunno why they don't just use flashbulbs.
"Smile! You're under arrest!"
Does give a whole new meaning to Legally Blind, Blind Justice and Shedding a little light on the Crime.
No one wants to see a British smile.
http://www.amazon.com/Darkening-Welding-Helmet-Torch-Welders/dp/B000HKZ73I
Considering no other non-lethal has this range, and it is to be deployed by the military, yes this is an alternative to a bullet.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
hi-tech human abuse?
I wouldn't call UK police hi-tech humans, though.
Let me be the person that says it..
*WHOOSH!!*
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
They run around like that, just with tiny pistols.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
As well as pretty much every COD player.
Flashbang = fire wildly in all directions.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Does it work against unmanned Predator drones?
If so, put me down for half a dozen.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
... protesters don't have sunglasses? Well that's all right then.
yes, we have no bananas
Zatoichi.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I'd rather be lasered in the face than gassed or shot with bean bags or beaten
The mistake is thinking this is an either-or situation. First they blind you, then they beat the shit out of you. Now you can't ID which ones assaulted you even if you could get a criminal case going against them.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
which means they will use this "harmless" weapon without hesitation in situations where they previously wouldn't use any more force than handcuffs. back when all they had was a gun and a baton they tended not to pull a weapon unless you did first. we've seen this now with pepper spray, tazers, etc. the less lethal they are the more quickly they get pulled out.
remember that asshole lieutenant cop who gleefully pepper sprayed lots of peaceful protestors at once? he could try to make an excuse for that, at least if he weren't caught on video being such a dick. he would have had no excuse for gunning down these unarmed people in cold blood. that would have resulted in him on trial for murder and selfish pricks like him look after "Number One" better than that. that's why he didn't use his gun. but now he has neat little "relatively harmless" pain-compliance type of weapons at his disposal that don't produce pesky dead bodies that must be explained away.
they are becoming less and less like peace officers and more and more like militarized thugs every day. this is what you want? more toys for them? if you weren't such a simpleton you would understand why new weapons like this make the situation worse, not better.
have you tried doing anything OTHER than welding while wearing a welding mask?
It virtually blinds you.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
This seems like a terribly ill-thought-out scheme(except in that it might succeed in separating some police departments from rather a lot of the public's money, in exchange for a slightly more rugged version of a standard green laser, in a butch sci-fi plastic rifle case...)
Unless the laser is a tightly focused dot(in which case it won't be much use against a crowd) its intensity will vary rapidly with distance. In order to not be a complete toy at operationally useful ranges, it will very likely be downright dangerous at closer ones. Luckily, cops are technical experts and models of restraint, so that won't prove to be a problem.
In a similar vein, since lasers are a reasonably common occupational/hobby hazard these days, laser-protective eyewear, designed for strong attenuation of the common laser type of your choice, with minimal impact on general vision, is cheap and readily available. In order to have any effect on somebody wearing such, you'd likely need alarmingly higher power levels than you would need to have the same effect on an unshielded subject. So, either ~$20 eyewear gains you immunity to this fancy tech toy, or this fancy tech toy is powerful enough to stun protected users and fry retinas on everybody else. Brilliant.
Normal civilians are prohibited from owning and using these devices ....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Lasers are pretty dangerous. Look at what happens with lasers not even designed to blind people: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2403814/Russian-concert-laser-show-blinds-30.html. Now you're going to trust something stronger in the hands of police and government? I got a bridge to sell you...
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
really!?
That's the logic?
What about if someone has a gun, they may just start firing towards the general direction of the blinding light, hitting innocent bystanders,...
If I remember correctly, air force pilots used to have special googles that could turn opaque very rapidly to protect the pilots' eyes from optical damage from nuclear blasts. I wonder if such technology could be adapted to protect against such light dazzler devices.
That's the real point - if you can't target something accurately, you resort to methods that are considered cowardly, or to area affect weapons - not just suicide vests, but grenades or rockets, or shooting the friend of the guy with the laser gadget, or shooting the guy himself after he has gone to bed for the evening. There's some sort of weird stupidity from the people buying these items for governments, so they believe all the hype about new gadgets, and don't ask what happens when the problem tries to route around it.
Who is John Cabal?
Yes, point lasers at me and blind me. That's really healthy
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
Thats the next step, after we get used to this.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
prism turning their lazer into Rainbows: $ Priceless
Past the first person with eye problems (particularly photosensitive people) being blinded permanently....
It could be worse, they could be permanently shot.
Isnt the use of weapons to blind enemies forbidden?
My recommendation: Just sink the pirate vessels. Dont sink the rescue boats however.
My recommendation for riots: Everybody who want to commit arson inside a city, please shoot him with normal ammunition.
The rest you have to live with and settle it in front of the courts and - more important - by giving the young people the chance to achieve well. That requires investment in schools, communities and university access for underprivileged citizens.
the laws of symmetry have been...
...declared null and void.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Apart from the part where it's criminal damage, and getting locked up for it loses at lot more than your privacy.
At using sunglasses to counter the counter measure.
But, I guess its slightly more advanced then yelling "stop" repeatedly.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
>"'If you can't look at something you can't attack it.'"
Did anyone else resort to spray & pray in CS when flashbanged at a vulnerable point? I somehow don't see this going well.
One of the most depressing aspects of the Iraq war was the large number of civilian drivers that were fatally shot at check-points.
Don't laze me bro!
And you'all laughed at my foil hat last week! Now you see just how prepared I am! Suckers!
have you tried doing anything OTHER than welding while wearing a welding mask?
It virtually blinds you.
Yeah, yes I have. thats why I bought an autodarkening helm. They used to cost like ten times what a plain helm cost, now they're like 2 maybe 3 times.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
What about if someone has a gun, they may just start firing towards the general direction of the blinding light, hitting innocent bystanders,...
Guns are hard to aim when blind. Molotov cocktails, not so hard. Just saying.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
And carnivorous bats.
I can see it in the next Batman movie:
Bad guy: "hahahaha! I am invisible, oh caped one! And if you can see me, neither can you attack me!"
Batman: "You forgot one thing: I'm a bat." *turns on sonar vision with slick eye effects*
(Meh. The scene from Forever was probably better.)
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
SOunds like the device used in Looker.
Except that in the US, even if somone is shoting at the police, 9/10 times if they kill somone, they get fired. In the uk when they kill innocent people the cops get off without so much as a slap on the wrist.
Now Kids Remember your polarized sunglasses when rioting in the UK.
Now we can immobilize EVERYONE within 500 meters whether they're doing anything wrong or not, such as journalists and other so-called "innocent bystanders". Surely any person within 500 meters of a public disturbance is up to no good. All good citizens always stay at home where they belong. What a jubilant triumph for the brave defenders of our glorious homeland!
Proverbs 21:19
Unless they use shield mounted taser system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8bZ_QHSyEo
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
Ok, they'll blind you before shooting you now. In the US the easy access to "non lethal" force devices has meant a big increase in their use in situations where talking would be more appropriate. It is the path of lazy police work. "Why take 10 minutes to talk to someone when we can just blast chemicals in their faces?"
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention
The relevant international treaty would be the Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons, but that only covers weapons that cause permanent blindness.
SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
No, in the US, they only get in trouble if it's a white cop in a black neighborhood shooting black people. And killing someone earns you 6 months paid vacation (administrative leave) while the incident is investigated, followed by a commendation for bravery in waiting so long to shoot or "making the hard choice to protect others." They don't even get a slap on the wrist, they get a massive paid vacation at full pay and a commendation.
Learn to love Alaska
At least in the US high speed lead used to be used in the early 1900's to break up protests, riots, and strikes.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
This is not useful against protesters. The police use pepper spray on protestors to hurt and punish, not to protect themselves. A peaceful protestor siting with their arms linked can just close their eyes.
However, when it's done from a kilometer away, how will they identify who hosed the cameras? People already walk up and burn them with tires, which seems decidedly more risky.
The first reported use of laser dazzlers in combat was possibly by the British, during the Falklands War of 1982, when they were reputedly fitted to various Royal Navy warships to hinder low-level Argentinian air attacks.
I think the real news here is that they're planning on using them against their own people.
So, in the last 30 years, the list of notable police incidents involving firearms can be listed on a single page. Is there a similar article for other countries for comparison. I can bet the US edition would be weeks reading.
25,000 pound sterling laser defeated by $20 welding mask. And now I know exactly where to aim the rocket. Well done.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Usually when someone is aiming a rocket launcher at you then you are not yet at the "punishment" phase of the process but usually the "prevention" phase, which can include legally killing that person in self defense. If you don't like it then don't aim rocket launchers at people.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
A pair of Ray-bans or a welder's mask.
Jonathanjk.com
Now we've got the blinding light weapon, and the deafening sound weapon, and that Ray Gun that makes your skin feel like it's on fire. All this massive R&D going into novel crowd control technologies. It's almost as if the US Government anticipates needing fancy new riot gear. Wonder why that could be.
Dunno why they don't just use flashbulbs.
"Smile! You're under arrest!"
Does give a whole new meaning to Legally Blind, Blind Justice and Shedding a little light on the Crime.
No one wants to see a British smile.
'ere! 'e's got all 'is teeth sorted. Posh nob, 'e 'is. Give 'im an extra thump!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
V...You mean the alien reptilian occupation? Led by the call girl from the Companion House Madrassa...I will be first in line.
V for Vendetta. Must be before your time, eh?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
More theoretical use than a mirror (which would a most deliver 1/4 the power to the shooter), but I doubt they are that efficient.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Can't this be thwarted by those LCD shutter based welders masks? No so practical for riots but if the criminals are already wearing masks...
Except that in the US, even if somone is shoting at the police, 9/10 times if they kill somone, they get fired.
Bullshit. Name one instance. Police are practically never punished for anything they do here. If you managed to find a single instance it would be one in a million. Although there are exceptions to every rule, the cops in the US are much, much worse than their UK counterparts. When I leave my house I am much more afraid of the police than I am of any criminals. Cops are far more dangerous and violent. And if they attack you they also throw you in jail and file false charges against you just for fun.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
"The protesters were keeping the police from leaving"
Yet, you can clearly see the officer in the same video, going on the other side of the protester, walking over them casually without any difficulty, while waiving in his hand a can of pepper spray, just before spraying them.
Unless they're Brazilian and have the bad luck of resembling some most-wanted Arab terrorist.
Shades?
Jane Badler is best Diana, junior.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This isn't 'Nam, there are rules...
Although I am pretty sure this goes against a Geneva convention this is healthier for you than high speed lead.
Though to be fair I would rather go blind the natural way 'as God intended'. Shaking the meat! Choking the bishop... etc
Somalian pirates, uppity citizens, same thing.
Question everything
You mean Sergeant Pepper Spray.
Did you accidentally switch US and UK or something? Cops get away with shooting people in the US all the time. Unless the victim is already handcuffed and in the back of the cruiser, when a cop shoots someone in the US, they're put on paid administrative leave for a few weeks, then returned to duty. Maybe if it's really obvious that the cop had no business shooting the guy, he'll return to duty with a nasty letter in his file.
back when all they had was a gun and a baton they tended not to pull a weapon unless you did first. we've seen this now with pepper spray, tazers, etc. the less lethal they are the more quickly they get pulled out.
You must be talking about how it was in the UK or something, because here in the states they used to use bullets to break up riots, protests and strikes in the early 1900's. Back before there were non-lethal alternatives lethal methods were used, extensively.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
I suppose that the welding glass will seems quite transparent when you are illuminated by a blinding light ;)
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
"Right. If the police aren't allowed to use this laser then they will have to shoot protesters. There is just no other way."
Of which practical ways do you approve? A list please.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
There's some sort of weird stupidity from the people buying these items for governments, so they believe all the hype about new gadgets, and don't ask what happens when the problem tries to route around it.
This is an excellent point. I mean forget about attacking the person who was pointing the weapon. Look at the big picture: Something terrible is wrong politically and a large mass of people are protesting it in a nonviolent way. You bring out your crowd control weapons. You disperse the protestors. Job done, right?
What do you think those people are going to do if you make nonviolent protesting unavailable? Thank you for your benevolence and then go home and give up? Forget all about the fact that they can't find a job and are heading for bankruptcy?
The protesters are not the problem. The protesters are the symptom. Fighting the symptom doesn't solve the problem. And not solving the problem will only give it enough time to turn into a disaster.
Also mirrors.
It is worse than that. FTA:
Similar devices have already been used by British and American troops in Afghanistan to help protect convoys from attack.
It seems that "normal civilians" are now being treated no differently than your average throat-cutting, convoy robbing, wife-whuppin', goat-fucking Taliban Mujahedin* in the Iraq or the Afghanistan. Yay for Democracy, Freedom and other Western Values.
_____
* This image of the Taliban is based on post-Soviet era Western media portrayal. Before that the Mujahedin were brave, just, honest and peace-loving farmers who were badly abused by the Bloody KGB and only kept goats for the milk and the meat.
You can find out how many people have been shot by police over the last 20 or so years here : http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody/police-shootings.
53 (about 2.6 a year). Compare that to other countries.
As the police continue to employ more and more technology, they distance themselves even further from the rest of us as human beings, who can feel pain and distress.
When I was a kid, cops only carried guns and batons. If you mouthed off, you got told to STFU. If you were combative, you got some stick time and thrown in the back of a cruiser. If you constituted a real and imminent threat to the safety of others, you got shot. Of course this is an over-simplication, but bear with me.Then, tasers and OC spray came along. Hey, you no longer got your skull cracked or your knees busted when you resisted arrest, or shot unless you had to be. Instead, you were subdued, then usually hauled away in a cruiser, not an ambulance.
Somewhere within the last decade or so, something changed. These new tools stopped simply being replacements for more damaging, violent tactics, and instead became items of daily use. Cop doesn't like your attitude? Sprayed in the face. Not moving quickly enough, citizen? Sprayed in the face. Sitting around peacefully protesting? Sprayed in the face. Not complying with what you're being told to do? Tased. Struggling on the ground because you don't understand why you've been pepper sprayed and 3 cops are piled on you? Tased. Don't tase me bro? Extra helping of tase. At what point did these 'less lethal' alternatives to brutal violence become a policing tool be given the same utility as giving commands to a dog?
Where are we going to be in 10 years when things like this new 'temporary' blinding laser have been deployed en masse? Remember when OC spray and tasers were considered NON-lethal? Now they're 'less' lethal, after a few fatalities. How many people will have to be blinded for life before they realize pointing lasers into eyes is not a risk-free practice? How many of those will be considered acceptable losses? People are still dying from tasers, and occasionally from pepper spray, yet they continue to use them on people who would not have been given more than a stare down and a few terse commands a couple decades ago. It's become a one-sided arms race, and it's terrifying.
To be precise, most of the people the cops plink in the US are the sort many of the rest of us are fine with them plinking, and if they plink in error it only causes outcry if the plinkee is both innocent and has a wholesome prior track record. If they are an established dirtbag then it's an enemy casualty.
Many Americans prefer that security in their zones be maintained by any force necessary.
It's not "nice" and we don't give a shit.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
True. Though there could be a loophole - whichever Geneva Convention ruled on 'blinding weapons' or their ilk (probably the same one that outlawed battlefield use of dumdums and the like) maybe meant _permanent_ blinding.
Note: the following does not include killings by police in Northern Ireland
you'd think that an encyclopaedia would at least try to be comprehensive.
"Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
This will be followed by a ban on interference filters and the like, effectively making amateur astronomy illegal in all but the most remote rural locations?
Well the Geneva convention doesn't apply to the police
I think Medusa would like to have a word with these fellows too.
Can you say Auto Dimming Welder's Mask. If I were a pirate after millions in ship booty a $50 auto dimming welding mask might just make the $25000 laser useless.
This. The police crack skulls and ask questions later. There was a recent eviction of travellers where one of them pushed a tazer through a fence and fired it blind, then kept pressing the trigger over and over again without seeing who he was electrocuting. Fortunately he missed and the needles landed in some earth, but we could easily have had another murder enquiry on our hands there.
Presumably if the police tried to assault you and in self defence you used some form of non-lethal weapon like a laser you would be set upon by his friends and eventually charged. Thugs join the police for this specific reason - they can kick the shit out of people for fun with almost total immunity, and even when they kill someone the ranks close and it gets covered up. It remains to be seen if the murder PC Hardwood will get away with it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
What's up Sergeant Pepper Spray?
That article shows four fatalities in ten years. Four.
Nationwide.
Compare that with New York, where eight fatalities in one year is reported as a record low. And NY is one of the US's safer large cities nowadays - the numbers in Chicago or Los Angeles are way higher.
I defy you to even find any figures for nationwide police shootings in the USA.
The protesters are not the problem. The protesters are the symptom. Fighting the symptom doesn't solve the problem.
This. This this this this this. This!
So.. They spend all this money on such a thing, and then what?
Auto darkening welding helmet anybody?
I have one and I can stare at the sun for hours, then walk inside and see just fine.
It's not a horribly expensive solution to getting blinded.
The company that develops these will probably get into the business selling welding helmets shortly to ramp up their sales. ;)
Its part of a pattern of using military weaponry against civilians. In The Battlefield Today? In Your Backyard Tomorrow.
What damage? They just dazzle the camera and render it temporarily blinded.
lol thanks for reminding me of why I'd never live in the US ;) "due process" is for wimps, right? Right?
Sales of full length mirrors skyrocket in pre-protest areas.
Its part of a pattern of using military weaponry against civilians. In The Battlefield Today? In Your Backyard Tomorrow.
The company's that produce these military weapons have fewer places to sell their products.
,Black and just generally different to their way of thinking people you have a ready made market for your products.
Stuff like fewer wars and more country's starting to sign up to and believe in Geneva conventions puts a dampener on things.
You know Peace can be a bit of a pain in the arse.
But do not worry when you have a nation , Insert god fearing christian nation here, thats freaked out by Musilm's
I say they line up all the police and test it on them, first. If anyone decides to bow out, or has their vision permanently damaged due to exposure to this device, then they can't use it on civilians. Ever. Scrap it.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
> the less lethal they are the more quickly they get pulled out.
More correctly the less lethal they are perceived to be the more quickly they get pulled out.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Unless they're running for a train in London...
sarcasm warning
Look that was an honest mistake he did sort of look like one of the guys they were looking for and the coppers are human if at the critical moment , when you have to ID the person you are about to assassinate, nature calls well nature calls man
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7073125.stm
....average throat-cutting, convoy robbing, wife-whuppin', goat-fucking Taliban Mujahedin* in the Iraq or the Afghanistan. Yay for Democracy, Freedom and other Western Values.
--------------
* This image of the Taliban is based on post-Soviet era Western media portrayal. Before that the Mujahedin were brave, just, honest and peace-loving farmers who were badly abused by the Bloody KGB and only kept goats for the milk and the meat**.
** This image of the brave, just, honest and peace-loving Mujahedin is in reality Western propaganda while the image of the "average throat-cutting, convoy robbing, wife-whuppin', goat-fucking Taliban Mujahedin" is the truth ... honest.
Yeah, but back in the day, they were our average throat-cutting, convoy robbing, wife-whuppin', goat-fucking Taliban Mujahedin.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
There's no such thing as "non-lethal", there is "less-lethal". To call any of these devices "non-lethal" is to obfuscate how dangerous they are.
Many people have died already due to tasers & CS spray, this will be no different. People will be blinded or put in positions where they lose their lives due to abuse. If you can't talk someone out of a situation then don't kid yourself that a gun is more lethal than any of these "less-lethal" devices.
All contravene the Geneva Convention & other treaties designed to stop human rights abuses.
V for Vendetta. Must be before your time, eh?
Says the guy that doesn't know that V with reptilian aliens was a 1980s show.
The UK police are testing something that came out some time ago. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20011548-71.html
Way to stay on top of things!
As for police forces having another tool in their arsenals, that's fine. Far too often police in the US are hamstrung by being under-funded, under-manned, out-gunned, etc. In all honesty, if you've done nothing wrong you should have no reason to fear any police force operating in the bounds of law so long as they remain within there. The problem lies not in the power but in the abuses. Far too often governments, police, and military misuse and abuse the power they are given by the people. This device could help if used rightly to avoid the use of 'deadly force' - but like any tool, the misapplication can have significant impact.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
you're about 30 years out of date.. now it's not just black people anymore.
yay for mob mentality eh? ever heard of due process? the bill of rights?
Except that in the US, even if somone is shoting at the police, 9/10 times if they kill somone, they get fired. In the uk when they kill innocent people the cops get off without so much as a slap on the wrist.
Your writing is almost too confused to merit a response. Maybe you mean something else. But anyway, if you mean to say that police in the US lose their job if they shoot someone, that's simply not true. Different police departments have different procedures, but typically other police officers will investigate the shooting and then decide that the shooting is justifiable. I believe it's possible for them to find the shooting unjustifiable, but I don't remember that ever happening.
(||) Nehmo (||)
Nah, hardly anyone really gets riled up about dead foreign students or white people.
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You bet.
There is an event in our future, and I bet it's sooner than not, when some city or town's police department, or maybe just a handful of officers, are going to refuse to use these tools on fellow citizens. The video will go viral.
There is still a desire on the part of the political and corporate elite to try to ignore all of these protests and demonstrations world-wide. It won't work because it never does. And we haven't even come to the end of the first act of this drama. With the Olympics in London coming up and two major party conventions in the US, I've got a feeling it's going to be an interesting year coming up.
And don't think for a second that these press releases about all these "non-lethal" weapons aren't meant as a warning to the protestors. I doubt the warning will be heeded.
You are welcome on my lawn.
My big concern is that the world is full of dumbasses. A dumbass cop will try to force some stubborn dumbass to move. The stubborn dumbass will sit there with the beam in his eye until the damage is permanent while the dumbass cop will keeps on pointing the beam. I believe that the technical term for this phenomenon is dumbass positive feedback.
Uh, no.
Unless it's a really egregious violation of police protocols, in certain cities if you kill an unarmed perp you get a gift certificate for two to Red Lobster and an "attaboy". If the perp is an Hispanic male, you get an autographed poster of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. If it's an non-violent Occupy protestor and the video of the shooting goes viral, you may get fired, but you'll definitely get a job as a commentator on Fox News and a ATM from Michele Bachmann (or Marcus).
You are welcome on my lawn.
If the terrorists had a missile that could track the beam back to it's source? Kinda like reverse painting a target?
It is hilarious this got modded as flamebait, when a huge chunk of the comments on slashdot bemoan the increasing militarization of the police. A huge step in fighting that is coming up with slogans and language to explain how horrifying this slide towards fascism is.
Are we talking arc welding? The goggles you wear for acetylene don't blind you in the daylight and might work ok against non-green lasers... I imagine you could get something a little more notched for laser protection... there are only so many frequencies you need to attenuate....
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"If this sort of thing gets deployed on a regular basis, I can see a good money-making opportunity for some enterprising soul of selling a pair of protective goggles attached to a hat covered in retroreflectors, just to really annoy them."
Or to fuck up photo-radar.
point lasers at me and blind me
"Don't Blind Me Bro!"
Police officers in the US are declaring that pepper spray is too inhumane to use... on police officers. It's just fine and dandy to use on unarmed people sitting down.
They will stand there and feed you this line of psychopathic bullshit with a straight face and be honestly unable to figure out how they earned the title "largest street gang in America".
Dyolf Knip
what about people who are wearing prescription glasses or contact lenses? wouldn't these lenses intensify the effect and cause permanent blindness?
...before tasers were supposed to replace firearms
You see, where police formerly used firearms, they still do. But should you object to being arrested/detained/questioned/beaten, that's when taser gets used on you, and hopefully you have a strong heart to survive it. You think cops give a flying fuck about your well-being? They will use the deadliest thing they can get away with, and sometimes what they cannot. Google "anthony bologna".
True, cops in the US carry responsibility for their actions. Sometimes they even get sentenced for up to 4 months of paid leave.
I believe Orwell set 1984 in what remained of the UK for good reasons. The English developed much of what we now call rights or freedoms over a thousand years following the Norman Conquest. In particular, standardizing the interpretation of laws across the country in the Common Law system using Circuit Judges was a major breakthrough and allowed lesser mortals to seek justice against powerful landowners. And all this well before the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.
But, taking the longer view, there is more tyranny in English history than justice and the same goes for all of Western society. He knew just how delicate and tenuous freedom in the UK was.
Actually the police doesn't carry pistols in the U.K.
You misunderstand the purpose of international treaties. These are intended to look as if something has been achieved and are only observed when it suits the purposes of the particular government that is supposed to be bound by them.
UK citizens should build their own and point them at all the cameras. Instant privacy.
Oh, that's the first interesting use for those 1 watt laser pointers I've seen. Could we even automate it so it points to lenses (hence CCDs) automatically ?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
I hardly made the assumption that they were squeaky clean, Anonymous Coward.
I'm from the UK, and whenever I hear about police brutality at protests I always think 'Why does this news always come from America?'
So close, and yet so far.
teef, fump
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
"Paul Kerr, managing director of Clyde-based Photonic Security Systems, which came up with the design, said 'If you can't look at something you can't attack it.'"
Absolutely, said the bloke wearing shades and carrying a mirror.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
It isn't that easy, people have tried it but if you shine a read laser the image can be recovered simply by removing the red channel. It will only be black and white but still viewable. Infrared seems to work the best, or a flashing light.
I'm just glad people carry mobile phones with cameras. Otherwise the police would literally get away with murder. Strangely the CCTV cameras never seem to be working when they break the law.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
In the UK (population 62 million) the police have shot about 30 people dead in the last 15 years.
In Chicago (2.8 million) the police have managed 42 so far this year.
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades...
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
yay for mob mentality eh? ever heard of due process? the bill of rights?
People think the constitution is some commie crap if you read it to them. Stay the fuck far away from the USA if you value freedom. And especially stop giving us your money.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The question then becomes whether enough has been done to make sure that this weapon, which is designed to cause temporary blindness, never causes permanent blindness. They say it's like looking into the sun, which can cause blindness, so odds are it's going to permanently blind someone sooner or later, which will in turn be a violation of the Geneva Convention.
I think it's clear that the whole thing is a really bad idea. The "brown note" is one thing, nobody believes that's going to make you permanently shit yourself. (I read Snopes. Still undecided.) But it's entirely believable that this will cause permanent blindness. BAD. IDEA.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Wheras in america they can legally shoot back. Don't tread on me, officer.
I believe the name of the show was "Visitors" then. "V" is the name of 2010(?) remake.
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Whilst I can agree with the original intended use for this invention, I cannot agree at all with the UK police getting their grubby mits on it.
The UK police force are a disgrace. They accept drug addicts and people of vastly inferior morals & intellect willingly into their ranks. I know because my cousins are part of the UK police force and one of them failed his first medical because they found narcotics in his urine test; they just invited him to come back three months later! Then I saw him just before he left and he boasted of going "Paki bashing". The other cousin isn't much better. Another thing that irks me, is that the police force do not even need to keep fit or have regular fitness tests! The fire brigade do, as do the Navy, Army, Marines, RAF etc. etc.
My solution to this issue would be to have some kind of national service for a police force. In this case you would have a general public with knowledge of the law and a confidence in the police force with reduced risk of corruption. At some point the majority of the population would be/have been both the public and the police authority, therefore those that have not served yet know they will gain an understanding of the law, those that are serving will be less tempted to be corrupt as they know that they will be certain to leave the force after their national service and enter back into the general public where their replacements will be the general public they ruled over recently. Those that have served will be far more aware of their rights and will have greater empathy with the current police force.
Obviously it's not perfect, because you may well need an over arching consisting authority of officers, but then you would have an officer training college such as the military equivalent, Sandhurst.
wouldn't the criminals just wear protective eyewear?
Because it America it is not news, just business as usual?
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It's only publishers who think that people own it.
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I believe the name of the show was "Visitors" then.
No, it was "V" right from the start. I remember it well.
Due process is fine, but instant surrender is required and resistance is to be destroyed.
I and many Americans do not care about capturing resisting humans in one piece. Where I live most criminals are repeat offenders. They stop repeating when they stop breathing.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I'm fine with due process, but DEMAND instant surrender.
I also want MY neighborhood swept clean of those who don't belong there. That means leaning on them, but what's MINE is MINE.
Idealism is nice, but it doesn't work on trash. Beat 'em, lock 'em up, or cap 'em.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
What protests and demonstrations worldwide?
Are you talking about the "Occupy xyz" thing? It was interesting, but un-guided and seems to me to have pretty much fizzled out.
What other major movements are going on that I'm missing?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
There's some sort of weird stupidity from the people buying these items for governments, so they believe all the hype about new gadgets, and don't ask what happens when the problem tries to route around it.
This is an excellent point. I mean forget about attacking the person who was pointing the weapon. Look at the big picture: Something terrible is wrong politically and a large mass of people are protesting it in a nonviolent way. You bring out your crowd control weapons. You disperse the protestors. Job done, right?
What do you think those people are going to do if you make nonviolent protesting unavailable? Thank you for your benevolence and then go home and give up? Forget all about the fact that they can't find a job and are heading for bankruptcy?
The protesters are not the problem. The protesters are the symptom. Fighting the symptom doesn't solve the problem. And not solving the problem will only give it enough time to turn into a disaster.
JFK said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"Temporarily blinding laser"? Does anyone else think that sounds roughly as sensible as 'temporarily killing rifle'?
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
This. I routinely make trips across the country via car. You know what I worry about? It's not highwaymen, robbers, carjackers or gangs. It's cops. So far, I have been unable to drive across the country without getting pulled over at least once for a fishing expedition..and that's in a fairly nice sedan, while white. I don't know what invisible metric about me causes them to let me go with no ticket; they are obviously looking for something. One day I worry they will 'find' something. I'm pretty sure whatever is in my car is legal, but you never know anymore.
The company's that produce these military weapons
Why do you do that? It's "companies". Don't you read anything but the illiterate ramblings on Yahoo? Meet Bob, maybe you can look less like an illiterate moron.
Mods, I'm offtopic, please mod me down.
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Its interesting that you pinpoint education as a critical requirement for rebuilding. According to the web, foreign aid has helped start or rebuild over 6000 schools since the US invasion; and the Taliban has targeted and destroyed at least several hundred. This seems to be understood by both sides as a key component for the country's future. The schools would be more at risk if the US pulled out of Afghanistan.
About 500 people are killed per year by police in the US (1540 in range 2003-2006)
About 15,000 people are murdered each year, the majority by guns.
About 50 are executed by the courts, so you might want to be paranoid about judges as well (although now the executive branch is also getting into the act, but they aren't publishing statistics).
Why the hate for this comment when it is certainly true for the United States? We have Predator drones being deployed along the US-Mexico border to interdict smugglers. Rick Perry is calling for boots on the ground in addition to more drones. During the Occupy Wall Street protest, the LRAD acoustic cannon was deployed against protesters by the NYPD. Yes, a city police department deployed a military-grade weapon against civilians.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Thank you for sharing your bigoted and inflammatory opinion with us.
Please be assured that even if "the nearest bunch of hippie travelers" were responsible for stealing from my garden, torturing them with electric shocks is still the wrong response.
I read the first headline about a couple dozen or so people still wanting to camp out in a little park in NYC.
I hardly call that an uprising of merit.
And I'm hardly a 1%'er....I make a good living, but I'm not wealthy by any stretch...don't own a home yet.
working and saving for one, but not yet.
I, unlike many in recent years...am making sure I can save for a good down payment, on a home I can actually afford to buy, maintain and furnish.
I think we had one last Occupy guy taken from our park near our govt. buildings today...so, no, I don't have too much concern for world wide uprising and turmoil over this....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
V (for reptilan aliens) May 1983
V for Vendetta March 1982
LOL. You are fail. Vendetta still come first.
I also want MY neighborhood swept clean of those who don't belong there. That means leaning on them, but what's MINE is MINE.
Idealism is nice, but it doesn't work on trash. Beat 'em, lock 'em up, or cap 'em.
I think that maybe when you reached for the dog whistle, you picked up the regular whistle instead. Because when you blew it we could all hear it.
I am not a crackpot.
I have been surrounded by the riot cops more than once and I really doubt you could pull that off.
If you are in the middle of a crowd, hold a reflective surface and the cops target you with a weapon like this, all you're doing is reflect the light at your fellow demonstrators. Sure, some might reach the cops but much more will be directed at the demonstrators who are closer to you and perhaps just turning their faces towards you (as they try to look away from the cops with the light). Even if the cops aren't protected against this, you're doing them more good than harm.
Thus, the only way to pull this off would be to have large reflective surfaces between the crowd and the cops. I'm not sure if this can be pulled off at all: It's easy to create reflective surfaces quickly (metal foil, etc.) but often the cops are too close for you to hold any significant sizes of reflective surfaces between you and them. Besides, it is easy enough to spot such surfaces and target the weapon somewhere else. I guess that you could technically have a disciplined enough crowd to spread something reflective on top of them (like shields in a phanlax formation)... but really, I can't see that happening in any real-world scenario.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/02/us-katrina-trial-idUSTRE77171J20110802&sa=U&ei=TPzoTtnIKJKHsALq15DtCA&ved=0CBoQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNHXrFcWPhxoZ_2QSti4ezArsrIDIQ
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How pitiful. I'm glad I'm no lilly livered coward like you. Grow a spine, son.
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Look at the cover of the newest Time magazine. They've named their Person of the Year "The Protestor".
Now, I don't care what Time Magazine thinks about anything, but if even a mouthpiece for the status quo like Time can no longer ignore that there are protests, surprisingly similar in nature and intent, happening all over the world, then you know the reality is way beyond what we're hearing in the media.
Get back to me if you still have questions.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Kent State.
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The Geneva conventions prohibit the use of blinding weapons on the battlefield. They say nothing about using them at the local mall.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
So you completely missed the headlines about those people shutting down some of the busiest ports in the nation?
You are welcome on my lawn.
The company's that produce these military weapons
Why do you do that? It's "companies". Don't you read anything but the illiterate ramblings on Yahoo? Meet Bob, maybe you can look less like an illiterate moron.
Mods, I'm offtopic, please mod me down.
Oops, Sorry!.
Hope my poor spelling did not stop you from understanding my message.
Seriously dude, It's slashdot and you find my minor spelling mistake so changing ?
It's annoying to those of us who read once in a while. Typos are one thing, everyone makes typos, but thinking that you need an apostrophe for a plural is ignorant. When I see that particular mistake I don't picture a nerd writing it, I picture a dumb jock that never finished a book in his life. Sorry, but that's the perception. On somewhere like Yahoo? I expect Yahoo rednecks to be semiliterate at best, but not slashdot nerds.
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