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Louis CK's Internet Experiment Pays Off

redletterdave writes "Comedian Louis C.K., real name Louis Szekely, took a major risk by openly selling his latest stand-up special, 'Louis C.K. Live at the Beacon Theater,' for only $5 on his website and refusing to put any DRM restrictions on the video, which made it easily susceptible to pirating and torrenting. Four days later, Louis CK's goodwill experiment has already paid off: The 44-year-old comic now reports making a profit of about $200,000, after banking more than $500,000 in revenue from the online-only sale. The special, which has sold 110,000 copies so far, is only available on Louis CK's website."

82 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. Pirate attitude by bonch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Louis CK said in an NPR interview earlier this week:

    "And a friend of mine who does torrent stuff a lot says that when torrent users do buy something, they act like they're doing the greatest thing ever. ... They're saying, 'I bought something today. I paid for it. And I didn't steal it. I'm the greatest person alive.' "

    I've noticed this attitude as well. It's really, really annoying.

    1. Re:Pirate attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the attitude I see more often is "This thing is so good and so reasonably priced -- I *paid* for it."

    2. Re:Pirate attitude by DC2088 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed - if you're going to pirate for reasons of "overpriced ____" or "label ____ is getting all the money", consider artists who do this stuff ON THEIR OWN with no serious corporate ties in the production or who are part of itty-bitty labels (Protomen, Devin Townsend, recent NIN, KMFDM come to mind) if you're REALLY against the whole "corporate conglomerate of music" thing .. Or hey, get Spotify. You're paying, what, $5 a month there, AFTER your free trial? I get why piracy exists, but there are artists I will give my money to without a second thought for a number of reasons. But the wrong attitude is to then act like you're the moral superior.

    3. Re:Pirate attitude by Myopic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The evidence doesn't support your waggery.

    4. Re:Pirate attitude by stanlyb · · Score: 2

      Seconded. I happen to buy a lot of books too, and i am even reading them, but i am simply not going to pay $15 for the hard cover book, not now, not later, not ever. Put a reasonable price, and if i like it, i will buy it. And there is one thing that a lot of torrent-haters does not realize: You may download 1000 books/movies/shows, but you cannot watch them all, and soon You realize that your time is so precious and limited, that You are willing to actually pay for well spent time. And of course to demand pay back for the garbage they force you to read/watch.

    5. Re:Pirate attitude by DanTheStone · · Score: 2

      You sure none of them borrow it from a friend or a library? I've seen that a lot.

    6. Re:Pirate attitude by mug+funky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's a bit of a problem though... Louis' experiment was a matter of tentatively finding the threholds involved.

      basically, though a lot of people are willing to pay for something out of goodwill, there'll always be arseholes that have no good will and will take anything they can because they can.

      people steal from charity shops you know... even though the prices are insanely low and the store itself is not for profit, and in many cases the store is affiliated with a charity that will give the same items to poor people, some cunt will actually take stuff for free.

      arseholes are why we can't have nice things.

      Louis' experiment (and wikipedia's, and radiohead's, etc) is whether one can make a living in spite of the small percent of people that are just cunts for cunting's sake. it looks like there's enough decent people out there to make a living. but one can be forgiven for thinking "you know, if those people had shelled out a measly 5 bucks, i could have made so much more".

    7. Re:Pirate attitude by Riceballsan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, the more accurate statement is to "some" pirates. The video was not completely unpirated. But there is no condition that non-piracy can happen. The type of pirate that will only watch it for free will only watch it for free, even if they have to settle for an image made by a camera recording a TV screen. (even crappy recordings of movies in theaters get lots of downloads, if every method of DRM on DVDs and downloads hasn't easily been cracked, we'd see the same thing)

    8. Re:Pirate attitude by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Habitual pirates buy spend more on media than those who don't pirate AND they are happier with their purchases. Isn't this a good thing?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Pirate attitude by wickedskaman · · Score: 2

      Who is forcing you to read or watch anything? :'-( You should report their actions to the proper authorities post haste!! ~:-O

      --
      Sand's overrated... it's just tiny little rocks.
    10. Re:Pirate attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The evidence doesn't support my waggery? Are you not aware of Pirate Bay, the Pirate Party, etc.? This thing from Louis CK already has several thousand downloads on Demonoid, and that's just a private tracker.

      Pirates want shit for free. They refuse to acknowledge this basic human trait and cover it up with a bunch of freedom fighter bullshit. It's very simple and obvious--humans like to get things for free. To make themselves not feel guilty about it, they blame everything else but themselves--software publishers, the RIAA, Microsoft, copyright law, etc. I realize that Slashdot has become a piracy advocacy site in the last 10 years, but just because your opinion is patted on the back all the time at this one website doesn't mean it's true.

      If you're a pirate, just admit reality and say you want to acquire things without having to pay for them. It's so much more respectable than the usual coverup.

    11. Re:Pirate attitude by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The arseholes aren't going to pay for it either way. Charging more money and adding DRM is only going to drive the non-arseholes towards arseholish behavior. This is why Ubisoft can't make money in the PC gaming area any more: no one wants to pay for that shit. People will gladly pay, if they get their moneys worth.

      Hell, the newest Humble Bundle made over a million in it's first day. No DRM, no minimum price. I paid 20 bucks (although I did send most to charity: first time I've almost felt bad sending money to charity, since I also wanted to pay the developers), well over the average required for the extra games. People will pay for things. Provided the person they are buying it from doesn't insult them, especially not while they are being paid

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    12. Re:Pirate attitude by bonch · · Score: 2

      I think the implication is that people may say such things, but it's really to make themselves feel better, as if they're "making up" for piracy.

    13. Re:Pirate attitude by OakDragon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Who is forcing you to read or watch anything? :'-( You should report their actions to the proper authorities post haste!! ~:-O

      It involves Beethoven and eye drops, my dobby droog.

    14. Re:Pirate attitude by rkfig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you haven't experienced the DVDs that force you to sit through previews by disabling skip and fast forward functionality. How nice for you.

    15. Re:Pirate attitude by Sj0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think there's definitely more to it than you're portraying.

      Look at me, for example: In 1999, I spoke out on my (crappy) website against game publishers not selling games and forcing me into the second hand market. At the time, I was more than happy to steal anything I wanted, because I couldn't get the right product at the right price and easy to buy and use.

      Fast forward 10 years, and I've spent hundreds of dollars at GOG.COM, where they have the right product at the right price and easy to buy and use. I've bought well over 100 games, more than I could possibly play in a very long time, specifically because I so strongly believe that a company fulfilling their end of the bargain deserves to be rewarded.

      Those dollars and cents on GOGs balance sheet, is that freedom fighter bullshit?

      --
      It's been a long time.
    16. Re:Pirate attitude by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not everybody needs to pay. Requiring that is just stupid and misses the point. What is required is that the bottom-line is enough to motivate and fund the artist(s) involved. Depending on the product and the price point, acceptable fraction of paying customers between 1% and 90% can be acceptable. 10% egoists should never be a problem. Of course, with bad products, you can get 0% paying customers, because they will feel defrauded.

      To paraphrase the CEO of Borland decades back (when they were sending out Turbo Pascal 3.0 with full money-back if you did not like it even for opened packages): "Yes, it is being pirated. We estimate 2 pirated copies for every one sold. But why should we care, our revenue from this product is great!" Of course this attitude will never be rational to a greedy corporate manager. But it should make a lot of sense to an artist. And greedy corporate managers do not produce anything of worth to the human race, but artists do. So I know very much which side I want to win and it seems it it now has a real shot at winning.

      But here is the real point: If DRM makes me feel defrauded (and it recently did again), then I will look for DRM-free alternatives.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    17. Re:Pirate attitude by mug+funky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      this is my point exactly - pricks will not buy at any price. not because "bawww i'm so poor"... they're on the internet. their basic needs are clearly met (food, shelter, safety), so they can't bleat about being poor. it's a matter of get it or go without. if they go without, they should spend the time they would have spent watching doing something productive.

      the good thing about offering it for a very small price is precisely calling the bluff - knowing that people will steal no matter what, but doing the maths on whether you can break even or make a modest profit in spite of that.

      Louie's overheads are low - he paid for shooting it, and web hosting, and all the rest he does himself. there's no distributor, he didn't use a post house, all mastering was done in files rather than tapes. you save tens of thousands by doing it yourself.

      a feature film might be able to do this, but it'd need enough marketing to get the film out there, and it'd need a low budget. something like Avatar couldn't survive this way (even if it was a good movie instead of a smurf handjob fest).

    18. Re:Pirate attitude by Endo13 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The "moral superior" attitude comes from paying someone who actually deserves it, as opposed to paying the MAFIAA who create nothing themselves and charge 5 times what something is actually worth, while passing on next to nothing to the people who actually did the work.

      I'll gladly pay an artist if his work deserves it, but I'll be damned if I help enable the abusive greedy behavior of the content cartels. They can go fuck themselves.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    19. Re:Pirate attitude by gweihir · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is. Except for those that want to tell others what to think and how to live. Typically found in the religious extremist corner, but the copyright industry also makes efforts in that direction. Even the term "pirate" is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    20. Re:Pirate attitude by kyrio · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yet the Humble Bundle, recent NIN albums and this thing from Louis CK somehow make sales. I have purchased many thousands of dollars worth of media over the years and I've downloaded at least a million dollars "worth" more. If I had millions of dollars, I'd have bought it all instead of downloading it for free. This is, of course, ignoring that the huge majority of media that I've downloaded can not be purchased in my country, or through any other means.

    21. Re:Pirate attitude by SomePgmr · · Score: 2

      That NPR article also talked in greater detail about what happened when it was pirated.

      The person that upped it apologized and made a modest attempt at justification... for which he was later chastised by a number of other users.

      I went and bought it. You got a couple streaming tokens and (iirc) 5, drm-free downloads. There was even a little message to potential 'pirates' right in the checkout process... I should have taken a minute to read it.

      Though I'm sure plenty downloaded it, I'm glad he made a profit on the project (he said he's never seen a check for a TV special) and that it, at least, somewhat vindicates what people have been saying all along about how entertainment is distributed.

    22. Re:Pirate attitude by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      I find it nice compared to people that buy BluRay's at the store. They moan and cry how they feel dirty, and need to shower to try and get the feeling of filth off their skin.

      But buying a Sony Technology that funds the MPAA does that to people.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    23. Re:Pirate attitude by LordLimecat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The "moral superior" attitude comes from paying someone who actually deserves it, as opposed to paying the MAFIAA who create nothing themselves and charge 5 times what something is actually worth, while passing on next to nothing to the people who actually did the work.

      I'll gladly pay an artist if his work deserves it, but I'll be damned if I help enable the abusive greedy behavior of the content cartels. They can go fuck themselves.

      You DO realize that noone is obligated to create entertainment for you for the price you demand, right? Reading your post one gets the idea that you feel yourself entitled to entertainment.

    24. Re:Pirate attitude by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Paying a REASONABLE price is always preferable to people. and that is the point. a 1 hour TV show is NOT WORTH more than 0.99 to most people. A longer special like the example is worth more.

      The problem is that CBS,NBC,ABC,Viacom,etc all think that tv show is worth $$BILLIONS$$ZOMG! and it is in reality not. If I cant view it for free on my TV then THAT is the value of it to me. You had better price it so close to that value that I dont care about the cost 1/2 hour sitcom single viewing? $0.50 is the top reasonable price without commercials. and THAT is far more they are getting per set of eyeballs than any advertising is making them.

      They want the cake, the frosting, and then to charge us to eat it and then crap it out later.

      and that is why people say "screw it" and torrent them instead.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    25. Re:Pirate attitude by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not only do you claim people are forcing you to read and watch things, but you act as if the fact you refuse to pay for something means you're owed it for free. What a strange position to take.

    26. Re:Pirate attitude by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 2

      That's what I did. It fits my system set up a lot easier. I've already got the set up to download the file to the spot that I want to access it from on the network, so as long as it's a file format that my devices can read natively, torrenting is a better option.

      Torrenting is so much faster downloading than direct file downloading, usually, and particularly with a server like this one where lots of people were reporting futzed d/l's because they were overloaded. So many were screwed up, the site added extra chances to download the file.

      For me torrenting has always been about convenience. I could record the shows that I want to watch and encode them and move them to my NAS, but that's a bigger PITA then simply torrenting the show to the internal distribution site.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    27. Re:Pirate attitude by Endo13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course they're not obligated to create it.

      But then, bear in mind, that entertainment as a whole is not something that anyone ever needs to buy. What entertainment we absolustely have to have to maintain our sanity we can generally provide for ourselves.

      On top of that, there's such a glut and over-supply of entertainment available these days, it's almost surprising that *any* of them make much money.

      Bottom line, it's a buyer's market, more than any industry has ever been before. The MAFIAA et al keep trying to make that not true, but it's just not possible.

      So no, they're not obligated to create the entertainment I want for the price I demand... unless they actually want to turn a profit. If you're in the entertainment business and no one likes what you're creating, it is in every sense of the word, worthless.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    28. Re:Pirate attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      basically, though a lot of people are willing to pay for something out of goodwill, there'll always be arseholes that have no good will and will take anything they can because they can.

      people steal from charity shops you know... even though the prices are insanely low and the store itself is not for profit, and in many cases the store is affiliated with a charity that will give the same items to poor people, some cunt will actually take stuff for free.

      arseholes are why we can't have nice things.

      Let's stop calling these people by body parts ("arsehole", "cunt") and use the appropriate label:

      Sociopath

      Sociopaths are, literally, the source of all the evil in the world.
      The sooner everybody knows what they are, the sooner we can build a machine to identify them.
      The sooner we can build a machine to identify them, the sooner we can quarantine them.

    29. Re:Pirate attitude by geekprime · · Score: 5, Insightful

      worrying too much about arseholes are why we can't have nice things.

      There, fixed that for you.

      The bottom line is that nothing you can do will stop the people that are going to pirate it no matter what. NOTHING short of not releasing it will prevent them from getting a copy for free and thinking they are the hot shit because of it.

      Lets say that there are 1000 of those people in the world that want your product, is it worth pissing off the 100,000 people that legitimately buy your "product" with annoying DRM to slightly annoy just one of those 1000 jackasses while he breaks whatever actually useless DRM scheme you PAID EXTRA to use on your product? To say nothing of the fact that you are pumping up that one jackholes ego by giving him some drm to crack!

      Well that's all of my.02, I'm off to go buy a comedy album, even though I've never seen this guy. Maybe I'll check out youtube first.

      Ya, I think the lesson is clear to anyone that isn't an idiot, or working for a DRM creation company.

    30. Re:Pirate attitude by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Marketing is a big part of it. As with Radiohead, they proved only that if the marketing money is already spent, you can coast.

      He can figure web hosting and the cost of the venue and filming into his accounts, but he didn't take into account the money that was spent making him famous: spots on Letterman, Showtime specials, etc.

      Unknown people try this experiment every single day on Myspace and Jango and such, and if they're lucky a musician will make enough money to pay for the studio time. They're not famous to start with and can't pay for TV time to make themselves famous.

      If Louis CK were still some small-time hack making his way on the comedy circuit, there's no chance he'd have made back even the $200k he spent on this project. And as you observe, that's for the cheapest kind of movie you can imagine: some shmo talking in front of a camera, with no costumes, no effects, no locations, no score, no actors, etc.

    31. Re:Pirate attitude by Fned · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you can't get the right product at the right price, you go without.

      Why? What difference does it make if you do or don't go without?

      Serious question.

    32. Re:Pirate attitude by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why?

      DO you think there would be 5 dollar downloads if no one ahd been bucking the system for 15+ years? No, it would all be locked up by big companies who may, or may not release it.

      Of course, in today's world you're statement is incredibly stupid. Companies can change the terms of an agreement any time they like now.

      I can tell you why I pirate when I do

      1) I can't return many items if they don't work as advertised.
      2) I can't read the EULA until I am installing it; which is too late to get my money back
      3) Someone recommends a tv series. For example: Archer* It was recommended. I down loaded season one. I now own the disks. Sometime a show will suck, and I'll delete it.
      4) Downloading cost them exactly nothing. SO there is NOT a loss.

      And I will continue until the consumer isn't getting screwed.

      I prefer to change the terms.

      *LAAAAAANA

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    33. Re:Pirate attitude by MurukeshM · · Score: 2
      Troll.

      I pirate stuff. Games and movies mostly. But then If I like something, I look for ways to support it. Consider Assassin's Creed: Revelations, the game. One site sells it at 900 INR. My hostel mess bill is around 1900 INR/month, the amount I spend eating elsewhere would be 2000/month (say 500 a week). For a PC game, I would be hard put to justify to my parents buying a game priced at 250 (I bought AC I at that price), let alone 800 or 1000+. They simply don't see a 'game' being worth that much money or effort. But I can spend 1000+ on a book. So I buy the Assassin's Creed books, which average 500/book. I already have three AC books, ordered the fourth, have the Hitman novel, the Mass Effect novels.. you see the picture. Also, I do go out with friends (all of whom pirate) to watch movies, about once a month.

      There are people who pirate stuff simply because you get it for free. Then there are others who can't spend that much, and risk being disappointed by crap. Then there are those who can't spend but hope to in the future, Don't bunch them all together.

    34. Re:Pirate attitude by grcumb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you use terminology like "MAFIAA" or tell them to go fuck themselves, whatever point you were trying to make just sounds ridiculous.

      The tactics used by the media distribution cartels are actually quite similar in nature (albeit less violent) to early Mafia tactics. The analogy is an apt one. The fact that it's used to associate a despicable organisation with an outright illegal one is a pretty standard rhetorical trope.

      Given the fact that these same organisations have conducted a concerted campaign to make their entire customer base feel like criminals, and given as well that they have a track record of ripping off the very artists you claim to sympathise with, I don't think a healthy 'Fuck you' is at all an inappropriate response.

      If you can't engage in a rational argument that's garnished with a few rhetorical flourishes and an expletive or two, I'd recommend you never ever discuss anything of import with the irish, the French, the Scots (if you can find a true one), a goodly number of the British... or pretty much anyone from central Europe.

      I'll end this with a smile and a word. As my Irish grandfather used to say:

      Fuck you, you humourless cunt and have a beautiful fucking day. I hope the surgery to remove that giant stick up your ass isn't too painful. No, wait - I hope it is.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    35. Re:Pirate attitude by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      i agree. what i'm saying is Louie's experiment, and others like it are getting some hard data pertaining to what return you are likely to get on a completely open product.

      research in this area will allow for robust business models and sensible budgeting for any kind of digital product. the great folly of digital commerce has been distributors getting their lawyer cannons out before they did the hard maths involved in making a business model that doesn't suck arse and can actually work.

    36. Re:Pirate attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      worrying too much about arseholes are why we can't have nice things.

      Amen. I waited until 2009 before I bittorrented anything. I kept hoping we would win the DRM war before I bought a high-def TV. But eventually I got one, and I was either going to have to be satisfied with watching low-def video on it, or piracy. Both cable TV and movie studios refused to sell me video I could play through my HTPC. The answer was foo.x264.mkv files, and guess what: pirates are the sole source. The studios could have had my money, but even in 2011 they steadfastly refuse. I waited. I told everyone the day was fast approaching. They didn't care. They didn't want to be paid.

      To be fair, they did make one token effort. They released the HDCP keys, I think last year some time, in the hopes some Chinese manufacturer would make a highdef HDMI capture device. But so far, I still don't see 'em on the market, so buying content still isn't viable the way DVDs got saved by DeCSS. Maybe this will change with time, but I'm starting to get used to torrenting. If Hollywood had an ounce of sense they would pay millions of dollars to flood the market with HDCP defeaters over the next two weeks. Shit, they ought to be giving them away, along with buying a repeal of DMCA.

    37. Re:Pirate attitude by EdIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      even if it was a good movie instead of a smurf handjob fest

      So THAT'S why they are always fucking singing!! I knew it had to be something.

    38. Re:Pirate attitude by Parafilmus · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you haven't experienced the DVDs that force you to sit through previews by disabling skip and fast forward functionality. How nice for you.

      The DVD isn't disabling those buttons. It's just a plastic disc with some data on it. It has no power over your player.

      The culprit here is your insubordinate DVD player, which willfully disobeys your commands.

      It might be possible to overwrite the player's firmware to make it more docile. If not, you should consider having it put down. If you tolerate insubordination, that will only set a bad example for the rest of your electronics. Eventually, it could lead to outright mutiny. Best to nip these things in the bud.

    39. Re:Pirate attitude by aaronb1138 · · Score: 2

      Plenty of bands play free venues (taking a cut of alcohol sales of course) in the hopes of recognition. I'm WAY MORE inclined to put down $10-15 for their CD than $5-10 for someone's CD I can't turn the radio on without hearing. Sure, for big names it's about marketing, but for the "little guy" it's about demonstrating hard work, effort and skill to get all the pirates out their to pay. I pay for video games all the time, after I sample the torrent and see if it's worth my $$. If not, I delete it. COD: Modern Warfare 3 was a great example. Played about 30 minutes, found that it was waaay over scripted and felt like an Area 51 game at the arcade with a mouse instead of the lightgun. Not for me, and I'm glad I'm not out $50 to find out something wasn't for me. I would do demos of games more often, but after awhile I found they were like going to an Italian restaurant and getting a sample of the tiramisu at the door and expecting the gnocchi to be equally good. Not always the case. Before someone tries to argue the but you pay for what you get at the restaurant regardless of if it is good or merely ok, keep in mind that for many in the community, the pirate download does not cost developers one cent. It makes it for them when the experience is compelling enough to get more buyers for the multiplayer and DLC content. I never return to a restaurant that I get bad food from, and I warn potential customers NOT to go there (excepting fast food chains which are the $0.99 app store of food).

    40. Re:Pirate attitude by klingens · · Score: 2

      Marketing is a big part of it. As with Radiohead, they proved only that if the marketing money is already spent, you can coast.

      He can figure web hosting and the cost of the venue and filming into his accounts, but he didn't take into account the money that was spent making him famous: spots on Letterman, Showtime specials, etc.

      Unknown people try this experiment every single day on Myspace and Jango and such, and if they're lucky a musician will make enough money to pay for the studio time. They're not famous to start with and can't pay for TV time to make themselves famous.

      The best selling authors on the Kindle like Amanda Hock weren't known before either but they still proved: you can become famous AND financially succesful over the Internet. She had no marketing money behind here as you allege. However, because there is no billlion dollar publishing house or major record label which does an expensive marketing campaign, there are no more "one hit wonders" which sell millions of copies of their first opus, the 2nd one flops horribly and you never hear from them again. Instead the artist has to consistently produce quality over a longer time.

    41. Re:Pirate attitude by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      a 1 hour TV show is NOT WORTH more than 0.99 to most people

      I'd say it's not even worth that. The TV I watch is typically on DVDs. I don't remember the last time I watched a 1-hour show - perhaps you mean a 1 US-TV-Hour show, which is 40 minutes. I get four of these on a DVD. For the price of my rental plan, I pay about 10p (about 15) per episode. Online distribution means that they're not paying the cost of shipping me a shiny disk. If I can make a copy and watch it again[1] then that's worth slightly more, but I rarely want to watch a TV show more than once. 20 per episode, or maybe $5 for a season for a DRM-free download would put things in the impulse buy category - and I'd even be prepared to pay it before they even started filming the season for a lot of shows.

      GOG.com has learned that this is an incredibly valuable price point. I have about ten games that I've bought from there and not yet played. Most of them cost about $3 on one of their weekend promotions. I bought them because they looked like they might be fun. Some that I've bought like this before have turned out to be quite boring and I've deleted them after 15 minutes. Some have been so much fun I've played them solidly for days. At this price, I'm willing to take a risk - if it's rubbish then I've only lost the price of a pint of beer.

      [1] Legally, I mean - doing this with DVDs is trivial, but not legal if they are rented.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    42. Re:Pirate attitude by Thiez · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Sociopaths are, literally, the source of all the evil in the world.

      [Citation needed]. Sociopathy is now seen as a subset of antisocial personality disorder. According to wikipedia,
        "A 2002 literature review of studies on mental disorders in prisoners stated that 47% of male prisoners and 21% of female prisoners had anti-social personality disorder."
      Even assuming all of the prisoners with that disorder did belong to the sociopath-subset, this still means 53% of male prisoners and 79% of female prisoners are *not* sociopaths, while (depending on their crimes) they can still be seen as a source of 'evil'.

      It's very tempting to call 'bad' people names to distance yourself from them, fact remains that most of us are capable of terrible things under the right circumstances. While denying this may make you feel better about yourself, you're just sticking your head in the sand.

      If you're interested:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_disengagement
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

    43. Re:Pirate attitude by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 2

      Weird. They don't sing when *I* give them handjobs...

    44. Re:Pirate attitude by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      She looked unimpressed and said, "I can get all of them free on the internet".... paying anything more than $0 is stupid in their book.

      That's a perfectly natural reaction. What's odd is the reverse: paying for an infinite resource. It's like paying someone for a "piece" of fire when you can just put your stick into the flames for free.

      I find that people who are against digital sharing seem to have this strange attitude of "if I have to suffer and pay for non-property, then everyone else has to as well!".

      Whether anyone likes it or not, the free sharing of digital media -- be it movies, programs, books, whatever -- *is* the unavoidable future of computer technology.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  2. I'm shocked! by Above · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you give consumers a product that they want, at a price they find fair, in a form factor (format) that is convenient for them, in a location that is convenient for them, they are happy to pay for it!

    1. Re:I'm shocked! by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a shame that professional publishers, with very few exceptions, don't realize that.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:I'm shocked! by isonline · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oh the professional publishers do! They also realize that if they control the channels they can pay the actual author a pittance as well as make a greater profit off the higher prices paid by the non-pirates and the fees that the extort out of the people they attempt to drag into court.

    3. Re:I'm shocked! by mistiry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Took me a minute to decide to comment, or mod up.

      I will NOT pay $20+ for a DVD full of DRM/malware. If I purchase something, it is mine. I will not subject myself to corporate restrictions on what I can do with my own property. I have gladly paid for DRM-free songs and movies, and will continue to do so as long as my rights to my own property are not encroached upon.

      I have even donated more than asked to independent artists, simply because I feel that they deserved to be compensated for producing something I enjoyed.

      The typical pirate's attitude is not "yay, everything's free!".

      Should $CORPORATION decide to release their movies for a reasonable price and allow me to download it immediately via BitTorrent, here's my Visa.

    4. Re:I'm shocked! by stanlyb · · Score: 2

      They not only "CAN", but they are actually "DOING" it.

    5. Re:I'm shocked! by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Exaactly. Their business methods relate to them being the controlling middleman, and profiting handsomely.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:I'm shocked! by theweatherelectric · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you give consumers a product that they want, at a price they find fair, in a form factor (format) that is convenient for them, in a location that is convenient for them, they are happy to pay for it!

      The hard part is making that happen in the first place. From the article:

      Louis CK used the $500,000 to pay off several costs, including the $170,000 it took to produce the show, and the $32,000 he spent on building and editing his own website.

      Leaving aside the possibility of people acquiring the video without paying for it, he had $300,000 of costs (they don't indicate where the other $100,000 went, maybe the $202,000 figure mentioned was the up front cost and the next $98,000 was distribution). Sure, he could have perhaps found a lower cost way to distribute it but it's still $170,000 in production costs. Part of the deal with publishers of any kind is that they're taking on the risk of producing it. If it doesn't sell it's them who will be losing money, not the author or act or band, etc. In this case, Louis CK put himself in a position where he would potentially lose $170,000 at the minimum. It's only established acts who have the opportunity to take that sort of risk.

    7. Re:I'm shocked! by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      In Louis' case, no, there aren't, because he does virtually everything himself. In a lot of other cases there are actors, editors, producers, sound guys, promoters, etc who may also expect to get a cut from the profits. The publisher would get a cut by bringing all of those people together and producing the final package. So, yeah, their cut goes from 50% or whatever they're making now, down to about 10% or whatever finder's fees are going for these days. But I think there's a strong argument that, not only will volume make up for part of that, but this is actually a sustainable business model. The model they're trying to cling to is no longer sustainable. They either need to set their sights a little lower, or actually start producing valuable things themselves instead of trying to profit off the people who are. Tough shit.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    8. Re:I'm shocked! by Endo13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Someone just starting out has no reasonable expectation to make $500,000 in 4 days. Someone just starting out should be absolutely thrilled if he makes $500 in 4 days. In fact, someone just starting out should be pretty darn happy to be making any money at all in the first 4 days after release.

      But that's precisely the whole problem with our IP system in the US. People think that just because they produced some content they should be entitled to loads of wealth, both immediately as well as for the rest of their life for one thing they spent probably less than 100 hours producing.

      I could go on, but that's probably enough for now.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    9. Re:I'm shocked! by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2

      What separated Stephen King's experiment from Louis CK's?

      Stephen King's book was a decade ago, before everyone had e-readers.

    10. Re:I'm shocked! by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the question is whether these experimental results can be reproduced.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    11. Re:I'm shocked! by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being literally the funniest man alive doesn't hurt.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    12. Re:I'm shocked! by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      > He's admitted that he's making less money than if he did it the normal route,

      Did he as an individual truly make less money, or did the *title* make less money? There's a huge difference, when you're forced to work through a publishing company.

      And even if *he* made less money, (which I suspect was not true over the long term) isn't nearly a quarter million enough for one performance? [1] How much is enough?

      [1] or one set of performances at one place with one set of material, if you wish, because these types of discs are usually a "best takes" montage.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    13. Re:I'm shocked! by rkfig · · Score: 2

      Actually, he was quoted in the NPR interview as saying: "'I've never seen a check from a [TV] comedy special,' he tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross. 'It never ends up being that.'" All of that money ends up in the studios pocket is how I understood that. In a matter of four days he has netted $200k on this deal. I do agree that it worked for him because he already had the necessary fan base though.

    14. Re:I'm shocked! by mistiry · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Although it definitely lacks some content, I too use Netflix for this reason.

      It has actually reduced the amount of stuff I have to pirate, because it gives me a moderate collection of mostly-HD TV shows and movies available for $8/month on my Wii, Xbox, computer, and phone.

      Rather than waiting for a torrent to download, I can boot up the Xbox, find something interesting, and within 10 seconds I'm watching it in full HD.

      I am happy to pay the negligible $8 each month to legally do this.

    15. Re:I'm shocked! by mistiry · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll gladly pay if I know it's actually supporting the artist. But what I WON'T do is pay mony that I know will go towards suing their fans. Or pay the same price as a physical CD for an online download. Or pay $20 for a five track EP.

      Agreed. Why should I give my hard earned money to a label, that honestly serves less and less of a purpose every day, who in turn leaves a pittance to the actual artist.

      Of course, how many bands/singers that are signed by these labels are truly 'artists' anymore? I wouldn't define an artist as someone who sings songs written by someone else to music composed and played by someone else, all through auto-tune.

      Now, a band like MAYDAY, or an indy musician like Dan Bull, those are true artists, and deserve to be compensated accordingly.

      As for the last part of your comment - you are spot on. Digital media should be cheaper than physical media, and a five-track 'album' is just another ploy by the label to get more money out of the fans.

    16. Re:I'm shocked! by kbg · · Score: 2

      No Stephen King's experiment was flawed because you don't set any percentage of paying vs non paying readers, since you can't know the exact percentage from the downloads. You only set a minimum limit of the payment in dollars you want from the book. Secondly he changed the rules in mid experiment.

    17. Re:I'm shocked! by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 2

      That NPR interview he did explained pretty much that he never sees a nickel for the TV specials, beyond the initial fee, which is a lot. This whole notion that pirates are taking money out of the pockets of artists appears to be BS, because the production companies take everything anyways, at least in Louis CK's case, which I'd surmise is typical.

      Reading stories of the music industry, it seems that this is the case there, too. There's a reason Cheap Trick is still touring after all these years, and it's not because of equitable distribution of profits.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    18. Re:I'm shocked! by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      This is one of the most wonderful and powerful things about technology in our current era. Louis CK does editing and other such work on his television show Louie, and there are loads of artists that basically self-produce their own work (such as Johnathan Coulton).

      The only things the RIAA and record labels can exclusively provide nowadays are advertising and a distribution channel that is rapidly becoming obsolete.

  3. I like it! by karmicoder · · Score: 2

    Every time an artist does something like this, it pays off greatly. Think Humble Indy Bundle. Yet all the major publishers claim they'd be bankrupted? Pirates gonna pirate. Haters gonna hate. Don't screw over your legitimate users with malware!

    1. Re:I like it! by karmicoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have yet to see any DRM that noticeably effects piracy rates. Hell, I suspect it sometimes increases piracy rates. Assassin's Creed II was the most pirated game at the time, despite Ubisoft's draconian always-online DRM. The only good it seemed to do was piss off legitimate users, especially media darlings like combat soldiers, who often have flaky satellite connections... if they're lucky. When the pirated copy of a game is superior to the legitimate copy, that's going to hurt sales more than anything.

  4. Re:Proof by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Didn't Apple already prove this when they converted their music store to a DRM-free format? It seems like nobody around here gives them any credit for that...

  5. Like the Shareware days by John3 · · Score: 2

    Back in the days of Shareware there was a similar attitude from people who actually paid the software author. Part of that was encouraged by the authors, they would list people that had purchased their program or thank them personally. The big difference today is the people who created the stuff that is being "shared" via torrent are usually so distantly removed from the purchase that they don't realize or care that some geek bought their CD or DVD. So there is no longer a recognition from the creator of the work (Bono emails the guys....."Thanks for buying my CD!"), which means the purchaser (former thief) doesn't get any thanks or acknowledgement from the artist and instead must toot his/her own horn.

    That's why I like buying product directly from the artist whenever possible, via their website or even at a live show (yes, many artists sell CD's and other merchandise after their shows). I plan on sending Louis CK $5 even if I only watch his video once, mainly because I think it's a great idea and I want other artists to try the same thing (plus he's funny as hell).

    John

    --
    "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
  6. Re:Proof by Myopic · · Score: 2

    It doesn't feel the same when the "person" doing it is the world's most valuable multinational corporation, and siphons off thirty percent of every sale as a toll, before passing on the payment to more huge multinational corporations to siphon off more, before giving the artists their pittance. I guess for me the DRM is less important than those other things, though still more important.

  7. Re:What shocks me by Chrutil · · Score: 2

    He filmed and produced the show with money out of his own pocket, that's $170k. The website setup cost was something like $30k. Then he had to pay tax on the gain. That adds up to about $300k leaving $200k in profit.

  8. Re:Initial offering ususally works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is exactly the point. He gets paid just fine for the work that he just did, but to continue to get paid he needs to do new work. This is how the system should work, as opposed to the RIAA/MPAA model of do a work and then try to lock it up and get paid for it for the rest of eternity. The public domain is being robbed by these kinds of jokers who think that once something is made it should be owned forever, rather than becoming the shared cultural heritage that it really is and belonging to all the people who saw it when it was initially made.

  9. Re:Proof by recrudescence · · Score: 4, Funny

    Heh. You remind me of this quote from a movie. I don't remember the exact movie, but the quote went something like this:
    - I saved a man's life once!
    - Yeah? What did you do?
    - I stopped kicking him.

  10. Re:Proof by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    Well, more importantly, it proves you don't need a major publishing company to make a profit.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  11. Buy versus steal by hawguy · · Score: 2

    Back when allofmp3 was still alive and well, I bought hundreds of dollars of music from them. Even a lot of stuff that I already owned on CD since it was much more convenient to download the album than to find a good ripping program and to sit around and load CD's.

    After I lost the ability to add funds to my allofmp3 account, I pretty much stopped buying music at all, except the very occasional MP3 album. At $2.00/album I'm willing to buy lots of music, even bands I don't know well. At $10/album, I'm much more selective to the point of almost never purchasing.

    Not to mention the fact that I already have a few hundred albums of music I like, so I don't really feel a strong urge to purchase more. The more music I own, the less I'm willing to spend on new music. If I have only 2 albums, I might be willing to spend $20 on a new one just to get variety. But if I have 200 albums I don't add much variety to my collection by buying something new, so I might want to pay only $5 for a new album unless it's some artist I really like.

  12. Link to the purchase page by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found it odd that TFA didn't mention the site, or where one can go to get this fine drm-free video.

    https://buy.louisck.net/

    I think it's great, personally. He's getting $5 from me. It's a fair price, and he's a funny guy.

    --


    "Lame" - Galaxar
  13. Pay on the way out... by LazyAcer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LCK says he doesn't get torrents, but I think he does, this is very smart. Many people who watch the torrent version will gladly hop over to his site and pay their $5 and not even bother to d/l again. Movies should be like this, what if you could pay on the way out of the theater after you've seen the movie, wouldn't that make alot more sense?

    You know it'll never happen, but it's a nice idea

    =D

    --
    What! Do I look like a people person?
    1. Re:Pay on the way out... by EricX2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You cant mod somebody up and then post in the same article!!! Noobs I say!

  14. Or you could, you know, make new shit by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Louis C.K. is real big on that. He claims, and his shows seem to back up, that he tosses his old jokes each year and moves on to new ones. He doesn't keep doing the same material over and over. Means that if he releases a new special, well there is probably a reason to watch it.

  15. Re:Proof by geekoid · · Score: 2

    SO? Apple makes some money. 30% isn't really that bad when you look at costs to operate iTunes.

    Hey, musicians, self publish. Don't sign the contract.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  16. I wanted to buy it by drainbramage · · Score: 2

    But the only method is to use paypal.
    I had to change my email to get rid of those cretins.
    The level of their malevolence I leave to others to describe.

    Too bad, I wanted to reward Louis for his efforts.

    I've not made a few other purchases for the same paypal reasons.

    --
    No brain, no pain.
  17. Direct link by slasho81 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why not do as Louis does? Cut out the useless middleman and link directly to his statement.

  18. I bought it. by Beelzebud · · Score: 3, Informative

    $5.00 for an h264 720p non-DRM video, an mp4 standard definition file with no-DRM, and the option to stream it over the internet two times. It was a great deal, and I thought it deserved support. The fact that I got 2 copies of the show, that I can use on whatever device I choose, is great.