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Android Update Alliance Already Struggling

adeelarshad82 writes "Earlier this year many Android phone vendors and U.S. wireless carriers made a long-awaited promise, which was to push timely OS updates to all new Android phones. Seven months in and especially with the release of Google Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich), PCMag decided to reach out to all those vendors and wireless carriers to see how things were coming along. Brace yourselves Android fans, you're not going to like the responses."

46 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. Netcraft confirms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Android is dead!

    1. Re:Netcraft confirms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Irrelevant. The kernel isn't the issue, the applications require a certain level of hardware to work effectively. If that wasn't enough, all these companies are in the business of selling new units, not keeping old tech going on the latest OS and applications.

      Apple do the same, they just have a tiny selection of devices and only churn a single model (storage options vary) once a year, or thereabouts. These other companies have a shotgun approach and have to compete on function/price between themselves, not on whether it has a fruit badge on the back. No mobile device company wants their current gen tech to last longer than the next incarnation. Just look the the home PC market to see where that leads. Sooner of later the tech is sufficient for the vast majority of people. We're a way off this with mobile tech, but it can't be far away. Quad core CPUs out in a few months, 1GB RAM in a fucking phone, plenty of storage for most people, screen of all sizes from the tiny iphone's up to near slate sizes. Two years, three? Not long that's for sure.

    2. Re:Netcraft confirms by toadlife · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Irrelevant. The kernel isn't the issue,

      Oh really?

      Then why are most of the bugs I see with new Samsung releases kernel related[1] bugs?

      I understand the crapware that vendors integrate into ROMs takes time, but to dismiss the kernel as irrelevant part of the process is naive. Samsprint started working on their Gingerbread update for the Epic 4G early this year (I think around May) and barely released it in November, and due to issues are now working on a new update.

      [1] I say this as someone who has had to patch my own kernel to prevent the broadcom chipset driver from spontaneously rebooting my phone.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:Netcraft confirms by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Informative

      It would solve hardware driver issues, but carriers also do a lot of customization with apps and skins. Sense UI, Motoblur and Carrier IQ don't depend on a stable ABI.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:Netcraft confirms by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not really. The lack of a stable ABI *is* a major problem, because it means that every time a new version of Android gets released that needs a newer kernel than the latest "official" one available for the phone, every proprietary loadable kernel module (for things like 4G data on carriers like Sprint) ends up breaking. As far as I know, not even the Nexus S 4G has buildable driver source available for its wimax interface, which is why every guerrilla ICS ROM for it has broken 4G. It's even worse for HTC phones, because they don't even release their drivers as proper loadable kernel modules -- they just compile them straight into a monolithic binary blob, then rip out the proprietary bits and dump the unbuildable kernel source on the curb.

      This is the #1 problem Google really needs to solve -- binary driver breakage every time the kernel gets upgraded. Maybe they could create a stable thunking layer that allows a .ko built for a 3.(n+X) kernel to keep working on a 3.(n+Y) kernel, so every new Android release won't subject us to the usual cycle of 4G data that's instantly and semi-eternally broken. Or maybe just force the phone makers to blindly compile and release new unsupported proprietary .ko files for drivers with the latest kernel within 5 days of Google's official source drop, with the usual disclaimers that the new .ko files are untested, unwarranted, will cause birth defects, and might make you hunting for chocolate at 3am.

    5. Re:Netcraft confirms by Microlith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The lack of a stable ABI *is* a major problem

      Only for driver vendors that refuse to cooperate with the kernel community. They want to take advantage of Linux as a platform but not contribute to its success. The Kernel should be forced into a static ABI set for the sake of uncooperative, unhelpful vendors.

      As far as I know, not even the Nexus S 4G has buildable driver source available for its wimax interface, which is why every guerrilla ICS ROM for it has broken 4G. It's even worse for HTC phones, because they don't even release their drivers as proper loadable kernel modules -- they just compile them straight into a monolithic binary blob, then rip out the proprietary bits and dump the unbuildable kernel source on the curb.

      Sounds like a pile of shitty hardware vendors and shitty handset vendors. Pointing at the kernel ABIs is incorrect.

      Or maybe just force the phone makers to blindly compile and release new unsupported proprietary .ko files for drivers with the latest kernel within 5 days of Google's official source drop, with the usual disclaimers that the new .ko files are untested, unwarranted, will cause birth defects, and might make you hunting for chocolate at 3am.

      Or maybe these hardware vendors could actually start upstreaming their shit. Google too, since their shit infects so many drivers so deeply that many have to be rewritten to be pushed upstream.

    6. Re:Netcraft confirms by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Source Code isn't usually the problem. The bigger problems are locked boot loaders. AND for things like Drivers which they think hold all sorts of "proprietary" secrets they don't want to give away.

      Here is a suggestion, since my phone is no longer supported by you Verizon/Motorola, please release everything we need to support our own damn phones. My phone is exactly one year old, and won't get ICS because ... well they can't be bothered.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Netcraft confirms by bananaquackmoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that very few people actually want that software, and the quicker the manufacturers get this through their thick skulls the better. Sadly they've had years to do that already and it looks like its not going to happen.

    8. Re:Netcraft confirms by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Sounds like a pile of shitty hardware vendors and shitty handset vendors. Pointing at the kernel ABIs is incorrect.

      Great strategy. It worked brilliantly as a way to bring open-source winmodem drivers to Linux. Oh, wait... it didn't, did it? We basically had proprietary binary drivers for Lucent winmodems that worked under a few specific distros, and IBM eventually did the same for THEIR audio/modem chipset for Thinkpads.

      Yeah, someone finally did develop a true open-source HSP driver for his college thesis a couple of years ago and released it to the community, but for all intents and purposes, there were never open-source Linux winmodem drivers until almost a decade after they ceased to actually *matter* to anybody. It won't do us much good to get true open-source wimax drivers for a phone like the Nexus S 7 years after Sprint has switched to LTE.

      This IS the #1 fundamental problem of American Android users, because it's the one problem we can't fix ourselves. Bootloaders get cracked, and just about any phone can be JTAG-reflashed if you're really determined. But without a way to use a radio modem (or camera, or GPS, or ???) .ko compiled for 3.x under a 3.y kernel, we'll be forever running into brick walls every time a new version of Android gets released, and forced to choose between ${new-version} and fast data/gps/camera/etc.

    9. Re:Netcraft confirms by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is the shotgun approach that is the problem.

      If HTC only released 2-3 models a year(plus localized variants for CDMA, GSM , etc) they would sell more overall units which means they could buy more product in bulk, which would lower the costs and increase their revenue. Apple is making money on the iphones because they are buying parts for cheap in bulk bulk quanties.

      a smaller selection makes software modifications faster and easier too, and allows you to update them more easily.

      Someday one of the android companies will realize quanity applies to more than just end products but also product units sold too.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  2. "Pledges" by DanTheStone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is anyone surprised? A pledge, not backed up by, say, a money-back guarantee, is meaningless. If these people could get a refund for their phones if they weren't updated, the "pledge" would have teeth. This is why nobody trusts companies who pledge not to sue over patents. This is why people didn't trust AT&T about their merger pledges. Pledges are just for PR and they mean nothing.

    1. Re:"Pledges" by InsightIn140Bytes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Google actually did something regarding Android things would be much better. This is exactly the reason why you cannot just throw something out and expect companies to do what you intended. Google needs to set certain rules regarding using Android on mobiles, and that includes updating your phones. Manufacturers aren't going to that otherwise because it means lost profits. But Google is incompetent, so they will not do that. You can even leave the source open, just demand that companies respect those rules if they want to use the trademark Android.

    2. Re:"Pledges" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I pledge to mod up!

    3. Re:"Pledges" by bonch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, except then Android would just be another proprietary cell phone OS.

      That's not an actual argument; it's just a label you're attaching to the idea of quality control. Platforms need leadership or they descend into chaos. Look at desktop Linux.

    4. Re:"Pledges" by metamatic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google needs to set certain rules regarding using Android on mobiles, and that includes updating your phones.

      They do. If you want a phone like that, buy a Nexus.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    5. Re:"Pledges" by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Google needs to set certain rules regarding using Android on mobiles, and that includes updating your phones.

      They do. If you want a phone like that, buy a Nexus.

      I tried, but Sean Young isn't for sale.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:"Pledges" by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You cannot have a good OS if there isn't someone who organizes and runs things, and that includes providing updates to older phones.

      So who is pushing out the updates for GNU/Linux then? You know, the OS that is widely used (at least in servers, supercomputers, and other demanding computing environments) and whose core components are maintained by dozens of different organizations? Yeah, you can have a good OS without having one entity controlling everything; there are numerous Linux distros out that there help keep packages up-to-date on their users' systems, and they each have different ideas on how to do that.

      In the real world no one actually cares if the mobile OS is open source or not

      They certainly do, they just do not use the terms "open source" or "free software." People do generally care about the fact that their phones will not allow them to do the things they want to do, just not enough to become experts on how to hack a phone and avoid the restriction systems.

      for majority of people using a proprietary OS isn't "taking a step backward".

      Probably because the majority of people are already using a locked-down cell phone that restricts what they are able to do. Go take someone's jailbroken phone and exchange it for one that is locked down and cannot be jailbroken, and I am pretty sure you will hear them complaining about it.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:"Pledges" by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, it means that it is not in the public domain. Proprietary does not mean "licensed," it means "licensed under proprietary terms." If we are going to have a free/libre cell phone OS, then we cannot promote proprietary licensing, and that includes licenses that forbid forking or that require upgrading.

      Ultimately, the goal should be to open cell phones, so that your cell phone gives you as much freedom as a typical laptop can. Opening the source of Android was a step in the right direction; this is not the time to take a step backward.

      Don't mistake AOSP for Android. Android is only available to OHA members, and it included stuff like Honeycomb source code (which was under a very restrictive license), as well as access to the Google Apps, which make Android, well, Android (e.g., the Google Marketplace - it's extremely difficult to get apps without Marketplace access - it's easier to pirate than to try to find an official download).

      Cyanogen is using AOSP. And periodically Google pushes code from Android into AOSP. But Google controls the Android stuff for OHA members.

      Google can very well dictate update terms - they dictated how the Honeycomb source code was to be distributed, after all. They even dictated what you can and cannot do with the source and what customizations you could apply.

      Chinese manufacturers and everyone else using AOSP can disobey at will because they're using the free license, but the OHA members getting early code access and such cannot. Hell, Google can make it a part of the Google Apps licensing agreement.

  3. Fragmentation by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Android is more like a collection of related but not entirely compatible operating systems. The inability to have a consistent version of the operating system across current smartphones is really surprising for something that's supposed to be an open source project, but one of the big drawbacks of Android is how much control Google gives the carriers over your phone.

    1. Re:Fragmentation by RogerWilco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The same is true for Linux isn't it?

      From a software vendor point, it's one of the main reasons not to develop for such a platform. Supporting multiple Windows versions is already a pain for a smaller software developer.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
  4. Why do you think.. by GrBear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why do you think Steve Jobs pushed to hard with AT&T and demanded full control over the OS? So shit like this wouldn't happen with the iPhone platform.

    Money grubbing cell carriers would rather have your device locked down, so if you want the latest features, you buy a new phone.

    And yet people are still surprised that Android is becoming more fragmented every day. The drawing has been on the wall since the launch of the the OS.

    1. Re:Why do you think.. by obarthelemy · · Score: 4, Informative

      is it though ?

      http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html

      2.2 + 2.3 = 85%
      Add in 2.1 and you get to 95%

      95% covered in 3 minro revisions doesn't seem too bad, especially with the speed of Android versions slowing down.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    2. Re:Why do you think.. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The solution to that is not "let Google control things instead!" The solution is to start freeing cell phones from restrictions, so that people can upgrade the OS themselves. People should not be forbidden from upgrading their phone's software any more than they should be forced to do so -- just like nobody is forced to upgrade the software on their PC if they do not want to (and plenty of people have reasons for not wanting to upgrade). Instead of talking about how to give Google control over everyone's Android phone, we should be talking about ways to give the users themselves control.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    3. Re:Why do you think.. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. Thats why Apple release Siri for older phones. Its because they dont want you to buy the latest iProduct.

      Oh wait...

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    4. Re:Why do you think.. by bonch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you seriously trying to push the argument that the iPhone is not locked down? Really?

      Um, the very sentence you quoted specifically states that Steve Jobs pushed for "full control over the OS," so obviously, he was talking about wresting control away from the carriers so that you're not going through a chain of phones all the time to catch up with the new OS. In fact, it's a credit to Apple that they push out updates for older phones; the two-year-old iPhone 3GS is still selling well.

      How do you even pronounce "fanboism?"

    5. Re:Why do you think.. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      2.2 to 2.3 is far more than a "minor revision". It is a new major version considering all the system changes, UI changes, API additions and updates, etc.

    6. Re:Why do you think.. by geek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Siri processing is done server side. There have already been hacks released that let Siri run on older devices, from iPhone 3GS to iPad 1. Apple quickly put an end to that. There is no technical reason why Siri can't run on older devices. Apple chooses not to do it.

    7. Re:Why do you think.. by kimvette · · Score: 3, Informative

      Siri was originally available as an app in the app store, on the iPhone 4 and it has since been hacked to install on older phones such as the 3GS. When the iPhone 4S came out, it was announced that the app would be removed from the app store, and even if you had purchased it on your iPhone4, it will no longer work. It is not a hardware limitation at all.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Why do you think.. by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      As you know the 3GS is the minimum spec for iOS5. The 3G has half the memory and half the speed of the 3GS. The only reason it doesn't get iOS 5 updates is because it's not capable of running them. It's a 3 and a half year old phone.

      That differs from Android, in that phones that are only a few months old don't get Android updates - certainly not promptly, and often not at all.

    9. Re:Why do you think.. by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The solution is to start freeing cell phones from restrictions, so that people can upgrade the OS themselves.

      Spot the geek. Suggest a solution that isn't a suitable solution for 99.9% of the population.

      A real solution promptly offers to upgrade a phone's software when a new version comes out. Rather like iOS.

    10. Re:Why do you think.. by jareth-0205 · · Score: 3, Informative

      2.2 to 2.3 is far more than a "minor revision". It is a new major version considering all the system changes, UI changes, API additions and updates, etc.

      Not really. There are changes but Android is remarkably good at keeping newer version backwards compatible. I've been professionally developing for Android for 2 years and I can remember perhaps a couple of times I've needed special code to deal with different versions.

      The real problem with fragmentation is different hardware device implementations (and bugs), and different hardware speeds. There aren't easy ways to work out what class of device you're instlaled on, and lowest-common-denominator programming slips in.

      People focus on OS versions and I have no idea why, I suspect they're not actually Android developers.

  5. Phone Vendors Don't Think Platform by pdxer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that phone vendors have not changed their mindset from the pre-smartphone era. Back then, no one cared about OS or version. You got an integrated product and it never changed. Today, it feels like phone makers still think "we put it together and ship it - this idea of later changing or upgrading the software is kind of weird to us."

    To them, a phone is complete and unchangeable one it leaves the factory. Alas for their mindset, consumers see phones as customizable, upgradeable devices. If they were $50 each, sure, just replace it, but at $500+ (even if it's stretched over two years), people are making a more significant investment and don't want to be left behind.

    --
    Looking for a job in Portland, Oregon?
  6. Re:not surprising. by InsightIn140Bytes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Even Microsoft does better job regarding Windows Phone 7 than Google with Android. They have by far updated all of their old phones. In fact, they demand from manufacturers that they update. Manufacturers are only allowed to skip one update. If they skip and next one comes, they are required to provide that update to users. That is how it should work, not unlike how Google runs things.

  7. Another iPhone by RogerWilco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And this is the main reason why my next smartphone will be another iPhone. I have a bit of lock-in because of my existing apps, but that's less than $100, so I would not mind switching to something more free. Currently I'm still on my 2.5 years old iPhone 3GS, for as least as long as it still gets updates and the battery is good.

    Stories like this give me very little in Android, Google might lose to Microsoft what it gained the last couple of years very quickly.

    --
    RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    1. Re:Another iPhone by mrops · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People are stupid. They compare any android device to iPhone. If you really want an alternative, stick to the Nexus series. I have had Nexus one and just upgraded to Galaxy Nexus. Carriers have no control, they are not even allowed to lock it. Google is in complete control. Don't go with any other Android phone, stick to Nexus.

    2. Re:Another iPhone by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you really want an alternative, stick to the Nexus series. I have had Nexus one and just upgraded to Galaxy Nexus.

      You mean the Nexus One that received what is likely to be its last update one year and two months after they stopped selling it, and only one year and six months after it was first announced? That is the phone that is already one major version behind the current release?

      The Nexus One is the longest-supported Android phone to date (certainly it received better support than the ADP which was the previous Google-branded phone and it stopped getting updates before they even stopped selling it). However, I'd hardly hold it up as an example of long-term commitment. I'll have to see what the Nexus S updates look like a year from today - I won't be holding my breath.

      The guy you responded to was talking about updates 2.5 years after buying the phone. No android phone has gotten an official update 2.5 years after the phone was even publicly announced, let alone discontinued.

  8. Impacting my purchasing decisions by suresk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm replacing my Droid Incredible next month, and this very issue is steering me towards an iPhone 4S even though I'm generally happy with other aspects of Android.

    If I'm locked into a contract for 2 years for a phone, I don't think it's incredibly unreasonable to expect updates (especially ones that relate to security, stability, or performance) for at least 18 months.

  9. also dead: the IBM PC by decora · · Score: 5, Funny

    i mean, there are just so many clones! who knows what bus you use, is it ISA? EISA? PCI? what kind of memory does it use, EMS or XMS? which version of DOS do you want, 4 or 5? what about Windows -- windows 3 or WFW?

    there are just too many choices, too many options. the X86 based PC platform is dead. and so is the x86 processor.

    this is 1986 for crying out loud. people want stuff that is easy to use. not junk that you have to fiddle around with.

  10. CyanogenMod Fanboy by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 5, Informative

    Screw their pledge, just let us root our phones easily. CyanogenMod has treated me better than any carrier or handset maker, and it will never ever come with Carrier IQ: http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cyanogenmod-will-never-have-carrier-iq

    They plan Ice Cream Sandwich via CM9 for almost any CM7 (current version of CM) compatible phone they already support, except for really old models like the G1.

    --
    I8-D
    1. Re:CyanogenMod Fanboy by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Screw their pledge, just let us root our phones easily.

      This.

      What burns my ass is how phone makers continually work to "secure" the devices they make against not criminals, but the people who actually purchase and own said devices.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:CyanogenMod Fanboy by peppepz · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well said.

      My personal experience: HTC never released any update for my phone, which was running (a very buggy implementation of) Android 1.6. For half a year after the phone was released, they told us users that they were trying to port Eclair to the phone, and then they dropped any effort, saying that the phone hardware couldn't support it - coincidentally, they launched a new equivalent phone model natively running Froyo.

      Then I decided to void my warranty and I installed CyanogeMod on my phone: now I'm running the latest version of Gingerbread, and it runs acceptably well, certainly much better than the buggy Donut rom that HTC had originally put on the phone.

      A few hackers, in their spare time, with no documentation about the hardware, and without the software keys theoretically required to obtain full access to it, managed to do what the multinational corporation that designed the phone said was impossible to do. To me, this means that manufacturers do not want you to be able to upgrade your phone's software without buying new hardware for them. Hardware fragmentation, kernel drivers, processing power are just excuses they adduce. If Cyanogen can do it, so HTC/Samsung/Motorola could.

  11. Re:Apple Troll SuperKendall's Alt Account by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Owning 30% of the market while only selling two generation models at any one time is hardly a failure for Apple. Considering that there are dozens upon dozens of different Android models it's only natural they'd have more market share.

  12. Re:Google is malnourishing it's baby. by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has little to do with Google, the exception being for hand sets that Google made themselves. Would you blame MS if HP didn't release Win7 drivers for old printers for example?

    --
    which is totally what she said
  13. Except by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Informative

    Carriers have no control, they are not even allowed to lock [Galaxy Nexus]. Google is in complete control.

    Um, Verizon blocked Google Wallet, as they are working on a propriety - and no doubt to be a crap and insecure - competing service.

  14. Oh Wait two; the re-waitening by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes. Thats why Apple release Siri for older phones. Its because they dont want you to buy the latest iProduct.

    No, that's because Siri is beta and they want to tune the thing with a reasonable amount of load before they push it out to all iOS5 owners.

    I'm sure there's some degree of marketing behind the choice as well, but the fact is that it's a technically sound choice with a good reason behind it as long as Siri eventually makes it to all iOS5 owners.

    I expect we'll see that mid-year, though it may not support the 3GS (that may lack the CPU to handle the audio encoding fast enough to get it to the server in a reasonable time).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  15. Re:Choice by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    an Android phone is almost certainly going to be out of date very quickly and will almost certainly never be upgraded to the latest OS

    if you're writing for a general audience, yes. If you're writing for Slashdotters, Cyanogenmod seems like a better recommendation.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)