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Ask Slashdot: Technical Advice For a (Fictional) Space Mission?

An anonymous reader writes "I'm just starting to put together the pieces for a fictional story about a space mission. To put it briefly, I would like to give believability to the story: probably set a few years ahead, just enough for the launching of the first colony in the solar system, but with the known challenges posed by the current technology. Is anyone up for a little technical advice on space travel? A few quick questions: As for the destination, the moon and Mars are the obvious choices, but what else would make sense? How long would it take to get there? What could be the goals of the mission? Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip? Any possible sightseeing for beautiful VFX shots? What would be the crew?"

203 comments

  1. Cheese Factory on Moon by SharkLaser · · Score: 5, Funny

    A young buy wins a tour through the most magnificent cheese factory in the world, led by the world's most unusual cheese maker. A magical journey through a cheese factory on moon.

    1. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      A young buy wins a tour through the most magnificent cheese factory in the world, led by the world's most unusual cheese maker. A magical journey through a cheese factory on moon.

      Sounds like a good plot. Maybe throw in a Great Space Elevator and some Moon-pah little people and you might be on to something

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if the boy is naughty and steals the fizzy lifting drinks (gas produced by cutting the cheese) have his punishment be a sleep-over at Penn St. Too soon?

    3. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheese factory on the moon? Are you nuts?
      I thought there were just whalers on the moon. Carrying a harpoon. Of course there are no whales so they tell tall tales...

    4. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He comes back with what?? A cheddar implant?

    5. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by macraig · · Score: 1

      Heh, you jest, but Disney will steal your plot kernel and make a G-rated fortune from it!

    6. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by wdef · · Score: 1

      A young buy ...

      A prostitute then?

    7. Re:Cheese Factory on Moon by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      They would sing a whaling tune, but it was taken down due to copyright infringement claims.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. Do your homework for you? by HFShadow · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So you want us to write a story for you? Isn't this the point of you writing it?

    1. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of my 6th grade science class.

    2. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously, this may be one of the worst "Ask Slashdot" I've seen in a really long time.

      I've started writing a few months ago as a career change because of health issues. Research is part of writing, what he's doing now isn't research, he's just asking to be given everything. I don't know how he'll manage to write anything with that attitude. That may sound harsh, but he or she needs to read on the topic, do some research, build up ideas, and then ask people if those ideas seem interesting or not, plausible or not, etc.

    3. Re:Do your homework for you? by JRowe47 · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with timothy?
      He can't even spell the title correctly... seriously, 'mision'? What the hell is this crap?

    4. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have not yet the summary, but the headline said something about fiction and a space mision. And you dig up this old slashdot meme.

      Sure, maybe it's about us doing their homework, but so fucking what? What's wrong with doing other peoples homework?

        Would that make the world unfair? What about all those starving Africans without clean water but with plenty of AIDS, who don't even have playstation ones? What about being a policeman in Baghdad? Or just being born poor or stupid anywhere?

      How about we focus on if the task/homework/job at hand is interesting or not, irregardlestadious of whether someone gets a free ride on the informationsupercrowdsource? The person doesn't matter. Discuss the idea, if you wanna.

    5. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with doing other peoples homework?

      It teaches them to be lazy. We need less lazy people.

      Would that make the world unfair? What about all those starving Africans without clean water but with plenty of AIDS, who don't even have playstation ones? What about being a policeman in Baghdad? Or just being born poor or stupid anywhere?

      None of those people are lazy like this guy.

    6. Re:Do your homework for you? by somersault · · Score: 3, Funny

      What's up with Timothy is that he wants to write a story about spays.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Fuck you. If s/he is lazy, it's because of the genes and/or upbringing, neither of which one had control over. And even if it is laziness (whatever that is, really) or some chronic anxiety disorder and/or ADD, so motherfucking what? Fuck the person, in general, not personally. Fuck any person. Focus on the idea. This is not about anyone in particular being or doing this or that. This is the internet. It is text. It is the evolution of ideas. Persons are not important. Get it?

    8. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      s/Fuck you/Fuck that #sorry I got personally hostile there. Isn't that ironic? As a fellow human I wish you happiness. But the idea you were nurturing about a lazy person being bad? Fuck that.

    9. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If s/he is lazy, it's because of the genes and/or upbringing, neither of which one had control over

      Oh, I'm not saying it's necessarily his fault. I'm just saying we should help him overcome it. :)

      BTW, I'm not sure "laziness" has been identified in DSM as a genetic or developmental disorder!

    10. Re:Do your homework for you? by vanyel · · Score: 2

      If you think the setting is all there is to a story...well, that explains a number of popular movies that wouldn't know a story if a transformer turned into one right in front of them.

    11. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is precisely the "poor neighborhood kid" that doesn't have a "monday morning role model" that Newt Gingrich was talking about!

    12. Re:Do your homework for you? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are no bonus points at the end of the ride for doing things the hard way. Research is research. You are being silly if you think it is noble not to ask questions or survey groups of people. Would you chastise a Business/Systems Analyst if they asked questions about how the business worked from SMEs and users? Of course not, it is part of researching. A very good research technique is interviewing and/or surveying others who are experts or who have more knowledge on the topic than you do. This is what this guy is doing. So don't get all uppity because this guy is exploiting an avenue of research that you didn't. And no he is not asking you or anyone here to write the story, so people here need to stop exaggerating this. He is trying to get help in creating a believable context. If you could prove that this is his only form of research you might have a case. In any case, good luck on your writing anyway.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    13. Re:Do your homework for you? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 0

      Asking Earthlings for ideas on space flight is like asking a sheep how to cook beef. They're just clueless. Most people can't even imagine that there's any reason to go into space.

      Better off asking one of those fungus things from Kepler-16!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise there's a difference between story and setting, right?

    15. Re:Do your homework for you? by deimtee · · Score: 1

      Asking Earthlings for ideas on space flight is like asking a sheep how to cook beef. They're just clueless.

      huh. You haven't seen the feral little ovine bastards around here. Buggers will pinch your cows and turn 'em into steaks before you can blink.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    16. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The appropriate comparative quantifier for countable nouns is "fewer", not "less". I'd offer to help you with your homework but it sounds as though you wouldn't like that.

    17. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymus · · Score: 1

      EVERYONE does EVERYTHING they do because of genes and/or upbringing. That's why people steal and murder each other. You can't say that's an excuse. You can feel sorry for the person for having shitty parents, but you can't simply excuse someone's behaviour because of it.

    18. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have the mission start on the ISS and then transfer over to a Intra Solar System based space craft. We still get to ISS via chemical rockets. This is a much more plausible approach then to keep building rockets to send up the whole thing at once.

      All the parts of the crafts would be sent up in big chunks then assembled at the ISS. This would be a reusable craft. Then we just send astronauts up to the ISS for missions. If we need an extra module (like a lunar lander) for a mission that would be sent up alone beforehand. Also, the power source would be a Thorium reactor and use a VASIMIR ion drive.

      Maybe toss in a stop at a research station at the Earth/Moon lagrange point. This kind of small detail adds richness to the story.

    19. Re:Do your homework for you? by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      I've been writing myself, and my jealousy spiked when i saw this thread. Primarily for the reasons you cite. Why didn't i think of this a year ago when I was pouring through physics texts and examining long voyage conditions of the seafaring days?

    20. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EVERYONE does EVERYTHING they do because of genes and/or upbringing. That's why people steal and murder each other.

      The old question of free will. Are we preprogrammed robots, or do we actually have a choice in how we behave?

      The problem with a lot of proposed solutions is that they introduce randomness (e.g. quantum effects) to explain why our actions are not predestined, but since we aren't the cause of the randomn effects, it still fails to ascribe us any responsibility for our actions.

      Still, we feel like we have free will. We consider our choices and modify our own behavior patterns through reinforcement, which is how we build good habits or eliminate bad ones.

      So if we all tell this guy to do his own research and writing, that will reinforce his self-reliance and discourage his laziness. And we won't have to do his work for him, thus reinforcing our own laziness. :)

    21. Re:Do your homework for you? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      I think you like the idea that one isn't responsible for one's own faults. I understand why.

    22. Re:Do your homework for you? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Are we preprogrammed robots, or do we actually have a choice in how we behave?

      Yes.

      (Free will is mainly a problem of fuzzy definitions. Before we ask whether we have it, we need to define what it is without using mystical terms.)

    23. Re:Do your homework for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me rephrase that: we need people who are less lazy.

  3. Wait, what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    So, you want us to write your book for you?

  4. The crew needs women. by impaledsunset · · Score: 4, Informative

    Trust me. That's what most Slashdotters are hoping for when they are imagining themselves as a part of it.

    1. Re:The crew needs women. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In fact, make the crew all women, except for a single man who's cryogenically frozen. When the fuel injection system malfunctions they in desperation thaw him to fix it. He does, and after that, you can imagine! Va-va-voom baby!

    2. Re:The crew needs women. by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Funny

      In fact, make the crew all women, except for a single man who's cryogenically frozen. When the VCR clock malfunctions they in desperation thaw him to fix it. He does, and after that, you can imagine! Va-va-voom baby!

      If you want to make the story really believable.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    3. Re:The crew needs women. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sex sells... story should have fempyewta, seven of nine, lieutenant ripley, princess leia, and kerrigan queen of blades. then have orgasmo as the antagonist... resistane will be futile (even for all the lonely women out there who can't get enough of their mills and boon)

    4. Re:The crew needs women. by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      hmmm zero g sex? you would need a restraining devicee though so that your first pelvic thrust dose not send you flying across the cabin of the space craft. after all for every action there is an equall and oposite reaction. also if i rember correctly astronauts experience a drop in hormons responible for sex drive. so zero g sex maybe out but low g like on the moon or mars may still be possible and very interesting/fun

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    5. Re:The crew needs women. by john.r.strohm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It has been done. Fredric Brown, "Expedition". The first Mars expedition was selected by random drawing. It came out 1 man, 29 women. When the second expedition arrived, they discovered that the population had doubled: all of the women had children, and one had twins. I'm not going to tell you the punchline; you have to read the story yourself.

    6. Re:The crew needs women. by john.r.strohm · · Score: 1

      I believe the late G. Harry Stine wrote something about this, possibly under a pseudonym. I remember seeing at least one short story on the subject, by someone else.

    7. Re:The crew needs women. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Momentum is conserved, so if you're both thrusting towards each other and pulling apart you would remain stationary. Or you could just use a padded room and bounce off the walls periodically. The bigger problem with zero-g sex is that most people's reaction to being weightless is nausea, not horniness. Puking from being spun around while already feeling motion sick is a real turn off.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:The crew needs women. by arisvega · · Score: 1

      Momentum is conserved, so if you're both thrusting towards each other and pulling apart you would remain stationary. Or you could just use a padded room and bounce off the walls periodically. The bigger problem with zero-g sex is that a nerd's reaction to being weightless is nausea, not horniness. Puking from being spun around while already feeling motion sick is a real turn off.

      --
      The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
    9. Re:The crew needs women. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      after all for every action there is an equall and oposite reaction.

      After all: this is utter nonsense. (At least in your simplified and often equally repeated simplification here on /. )

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:The crew needs women. by geoffaus · · Score: 1

      I think the slashdot community should write a story where everyone adds a little to the plot - now that would be a good read!

      --
      As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to Godwin's Law approaches 1
    11. Re:The crew needs women. by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      I think the slashdot community should write a story where everyone adds a little to the plot - now that would be a good read!

      "How could they do that?" said Natalie of the Gates, as Claude entered through his brand new iTeleportator 7GS. "How could they betray all the people who worked so hard on GPL software and force them to BSD licensing?" Even since Claude started taking his sensitivity-reducing medication, his actions were questionable. "Next this you know they will start using DRM in voting machines. Is that what you want, Claude?". Yet it was as though he did not hear her. Instead of replying, he just started talking about knowing how fast some German guy was going before it was cool. Natalie was a disappointed by his ignorant behavior, but she was not surprised. After all, Claude was not his real name, just how she called him, and she had been in this world long enough to not take someone without a name badge serious.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
  5. Turning dust to gold by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    I recommend Haym Benaroya's book "Turning dust to gold" for start. And my homepage too :)

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
  6. Mision? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that some way to prepare beef or some such? I don't know much about space cows.

  7. Obligatory Sci-fi comedy reference by Ynot_82 · · Score: 2

    Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip?

    Total immersion Video games
    Particularly Zero-G Kickboxing and Wimbledon

    1. Re:Obligatory Sci-fi comedy reference by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip?

      Total immersion Video games Particularly Zero-G Kickboxing and Wimbledon

      If you're not into the sports you can also have it off with the jailbait ball girls, the crotch piece has a lifetime guarantee.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    2. Re:Obligatory Sci-fi comedy reference by john.r.strohm · · Score: 1

      "The Gold at the Starbow's End", Frederick Pohl, 1972.

    3. Re:Obligatory Sci-fi comedy reference by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I think weight limitations would make it hard to take a lot of recreational material up there, beyond the minimum required to live such as exercise equipment. You could read up on what the Apollo crews had to endure on the way to and from the moon, particularly the toiletry facilities which are now mercifully much better.

      The thing you can take almost an unlimited amount of is data. Videos, books, music, games and even some internet access. I'm not sure what they did on Mir and the ISS to relieve sexual tension; you probably wouldn't want to send couples who could break up after being stuck in a tin can for long periods of time together. Medication is probably the answer to that one.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  8. Mision to the Dictionary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Miss Ion and the Galactic Cheese Factory

  9. Go to the experts by MarkGriz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ask NASA *ducks*

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
    1. Re:Go to the experts by crutchy · · Score: 2

      you won't get technical advice from nasa nowadays... they just bitch about their budget woes.

      Need Another Soviet Asswhipping

  10. How about that new planet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    kepler22b - it might have water (just say it does)
    it's around 600 light-years away, so we'll need a gigantic self-supporting "noah's ark" type ship to carry us there. it would probably need nuclear power stations on board to supply energy and a highly efficient engine like an ion thruster or that magnetoplasma one that NASA is developing. fun stuff, maybe I'll write a book about it ;)

  11. I've got a site for you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This place was literately made to answer your question: http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/
    The entire thing is basically a resource for hard sci-fi writers.

    1. Re:I've got a site for you. by Scorch_Mechanic · · Score: 3, Informative

      Beat me to it. Atomic Rockets is an excellent jumping off point for all the things you'll need to consider, complete with references to how real science fiction writers have dealt with these things in the past. Lots of science, math, and more science and math. Did I mention the math? It's pretty much all there.
      Also, it's darn fun to read. I consider that a bonus. Don't you?

      --
      You should turn signatures off.
    2. Re:I've got a site for you. by wulfhere · · Score: 3, Informative
      Scorch beat me to it. I can't recommend them enough. From travel to engines to the real effects of futuristic weapons, that site has it all. Every time I visit, I get lost for hours and hours. And also inspired. :-)

      Here's a good place to start/

      --
      -- Sent from a computer.
    3. Re:I've got a site for you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn you, Damn you all to hell!

      Fitting quote seeing as how an innocent url stole hours of my life away. Such a sweet drug, knowledge...but I was not prepared for the purity, the sweetest nectar that is SciFi explained. Oh I rambled, I mused, I calculated till I was almost lost for good. Only the love of my horses (and it was feeding time) saved me from a full day gone. My God, had I read this at work...I post AC because I modded these posts up, but only with this warning, enter that site at your own peril, you will come out a change human.

  12. BOOM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The chinese moon expedition gets off the ground (the rest of the planet having long since given up) for their long awaited moonbase. sadly communications are lost as they leave earth orbit and the chinese hit the self destruct button to avoid losing face. BOOM goes the transfer vehicle and it will be several decades before it is ever attempted again.

  13. Check Out The Orbiter Forums. by biohazard35 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you're looking for technical advice on space flight I would recommend you check out the Orbiter forums. They are the boards for the Orbiter Space Flight simulator. It may be a simulator, but is built to be extremely realistic. You can find a lot of very knowledgeable people on the boards that would probably tell you exactly what you wanted to know. http://orbiter-forum.com/

    1. Re:Check Out The Orbiter Forums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The orbiter guys know there stuff plus the space sim is free to download so you can run your mission to see how it would go.

    2. Re:Check Out The Orbiter Forums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He could, and should do that. However, I can also answer his questions:

      First, if this is to happen in a few years, presume you can only do missions similar to NASA. This means you must use something like an Apollo-style, multi-stage, disposable rocket to get a significant mass to orbit.

      It takes about a week to get to the moon and about 9 months to get to Mars. It's possible to go faster, but it would require more fuel. If going to Mars, there's only a window every couple of years that it's possible to do it due to the position of Mars relative to the Earth. Read up on Homhmann orbital transfers for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

      Keep in mind that there is no broadband Internet in space. If heading to Mars, it takes about 16-30 minutes for a signal to go to Mars then back to Earth. So for activities during the trip, they will need to bring stuff with them to do. They could receive new data (like recorded messages or video), but there would be much less bandwidth than typical broadband. The only method available to send information to them on a mission to Mars would be with NASA's deep space network. Nothing else would be available any time soon.

      Of course, you wouldn't have that problem on a mission to the moon. Latency would still be huge (on the order of several seconds), but you wouldn't need anything too exotic to send data to them. HAM radio operators have been bouncing signals off of the moon for decades.

    3. Re:Check Out The Orbiter Forums. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent suggestion. I was going to post the same link!

  14. The final frontier by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Make the space itself the target. Being able to live there, to have a self sustainable space colony, or a generation ship, not a way to travel to somewhere else in particular, but the destination itself, Like space 1999, without carrying the whole moon with you.

    Other interesting destinations in the solar system, like asteroid mining or exploring moons on the outer planets.

    1. Re:The final frontier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about colonizing kepler 22b. around 600 light-years away, so you'll need a massive noah's ark type thing to carry animals. it will need nuclear power on board, and some higly efficient engine like an ion thruster or magnetoplasma thing.

  15. It's spelled "Mission," timothy! by zedtwitz · · Score: 2

    Apparently timothy can't spell. Unless the submitter is referencing http://www.hotelmision.com/. Although who would write a story about a fictional space hotel in the Sierra Madre mountains? I guess we're writing about a (fictional) (space) mountain hotel?

  16. Crowdsourcing? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a cool way to write a Sci-Fi story.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  17. What percentage of the royalties are you offering? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    Sorry; I couldn't resist that. Maybe we'll see some interesting answers.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  18. make it a long term trip + 20-40 min round trip da by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    make it a long term trip + 20-40 min round trip for data / radio.

  19. Don't let stuff work as advertised ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would like to give believability to the story

    Let things break. Let things prematurely wear out due to the extremely hostile environment, extreme temperature swings, etc. Let things fail to function as advertised by the manufacturer, or some environment issue that was overlooked because of our limited experience in space. Apollo 13 may be a little too extreme but do some research on the day to day maintenance and surprises of the Mir space station.

    Look back to the original Alien movie (1979?). On the upper decks of the spacecraft Nostromo (?) officers were dealing with computers, navigation, communications, science, etc. On the lower decks a couple of guys were using wrenches to deal with the plumbing. I always thought that was a nice touch of realism. When we go to Mars the most important member of the crew will often be the mechanic.

    1. Re:Don't let stuff work as advertised ... by Surt · · Score: 1

      And for the best realism, go ahead and have everyone die from minor accidents once their bones have atrophied in extended zero-g!

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    2. Re:Don't let stuff work as advertised ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the contrary, make technology better, fewer moving/replaceable parts, focus more on the mission and reason for it instead of drowning the reader in technical details.
      In the future, humans will be either nimble hands for repairs or passengers. Pilots will be a dead breed.

      Remember that some concepts will still hold true even hundreds of years from now, if you want to explore another planet you won't build some anti-gravitational vehicle, but lots of simple drones seeded in the atmosphere, see technology today and technology 50 years ago, and you'll be able to guess a little how things will evolve.
      Supermaterials, genetically engineered food, why take loads of vegetables when a few GM seeds and nutrients are more than enough. And so on.
      If you're thinking of a long term mission, look at sailors that work on ships and especially submarines, they have a particular mindset. That would be the best start. Ship engineering, you're going a long way from home, the ship doesn't just have spare parts, but has every system in double with redundancies, most parts are interchangeable, just like real ships. Honestly, space faring is closer to the navy than airforce.

      And as some people keep saying, look at the social environment, times are changing, and in 20-30 years, I really don't think we'll call most countries democracies anymore.

    3. Re:Don't let stuff work as advertised ... by Mal-2 · · Score: 2

      No matter what specs you settle on, the mission will be at least one (more likely two or even all three) of the following:

      • Late,
      • Over budget,
      • Under-performing.

      This is the way UNMANNED missions work. Once you factor in humans, the chances of things going according to plan slip from slim to none.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    4. Re:Don't let stuff work as advertised ... by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      The janitor is the least respected person till there is puke to clean up, then he's the man of the hour.

  20. Only "a few years?" by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    probably set a few years ahead, just enough for the launching of the first colony in the solar system, but with the known challenges posed by the current technology.

    The "known challenges" aren't technological, but social (economic and political). Unless you posit some global threat that forces people to "get their act together", you'll need to set it at least a generation in the future.

    Even the certainty of a killer asteroid won't do it with this lot!

    1. Re:Only "a few years?" by migla · · Score: 1

      >Even the certainty of a killer asteroid won't do it with this lot!

      From a staring point of today, what would that entail? Some people would probably suddenly get very cooperative. Not the 1%, but maybe the 0.01%, and not just measured in net worth, but in power. Money is power so, the crÃme de la crÃme of billionaires would be there, of course, but also whomever (if anyone at that point, because chains of command would start to break down) who could wield political power that could put as expensive things in motion as the ultra-super-rich, like commanding troops and weapons and having access to hangars and engineers and scientists...

      Wait. In case the impending doom was public knowledge, money would be moot, wouldn't it? So, who would be the elite in that case? Probably still predominantly the ultra-super-rich, because they'd have more hardware like armored vehicles and guns all ready (promising to bring their lackeys, of course).

      Maybe a more simple and interesting setup would be to not have the impending doom be public knowledge, though, so one could draw a picture of the power-elite of today being all class-conscious and working together to mount this great escape, not so subtly exposing the hierarchy that exist in our world of today.

      Maybe told from the perspective of a skilled mechanic or something, unknowingly used as a tool and dragged along for the ride...

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    2. Re:Only "a few years?" by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Or, you could just have a bunch of people who are leaving for religious reasons. Some group that was zealot enough to give up earth, annoying enough that people with enough money to ship them off would pay up, but not dangerous enough to warrant extermination. Maybe something like those 'allergic to WiFi.'

    3. Re:Only "a few years?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Social challenges are the best. For a space mission a few years in the future, make sure there is a black guy on board to make it believable. And if you want it to appeal to a broader MTV audience, also include a white supremacist on the crew. Bonus points if the black guy is the white supremacist's boss.

    4. Re:Only "a few years?" by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      if it is far enough in the future mixed race is most likly going to be the norm.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    5. Re:Only "a few years?" by john.r.strohm · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Killer asteroid" has been DONE. "Lucifer's Hammer", Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle, "Footfall", Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle, "Anvil", Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle [FORTHCOMING: they're writing it right now]. "Lucifer's Hammer" is a natural disaster. "Footfall" was an alien invasion, and they started the invasion by softening the planet up with a great big rock.

      For that matter, see also "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", Robert A. Heinlein, for technical details about throwing big rocks at the Earth, from the Moon.

    6. Re:Only "a few years?" by dargaud · · Score: 1

      The "known challenges" aren't technological, but social (economic and political).

      Right they are, but not only. For a good lead on social aspects, I recommand reading about winterover missions to Antarctica. My own site or, must better, Big Dead Place.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    7. Re:Only "a few years?" by houghi · · Score: 2

      I agree. What I dislike about the majority of SF is that it treats each planet as a country. perhaps this is a copy of a US centric view of our own world. Perhaps it is because writers are lazy and don't want to bother with that kind of realism.

      A more realistic situation would be that an other planet also has different political views spread around the planet. It will have tribes or countries with different points of view and inhabitants with different believes or at least grades of belief.

      Instead it is most of the time "All of the planet are farmers" or "They all live like in the 16th century" or "all following one belief that is not Christian" and especially nice is the fact that all wear the same clothing all around the planet.

      Walk around a city and you will see this is not true for humans. Even each individual will wear different clothing at different times as well, depending on what he will be doing. That is also the obvious reason they are all military. It gives a nice structure, which is much easier to handle for the story teller.

      Try it with a company where people get replaced half way through or budget cuts don't allow things to happen anymore half way in a mission. "Sorry. We were ready to receive the cure for cancer from you in change of 100 tonnes of sand, but management have done a better deal to increase their profit margin, so tada and sorry that your species will be extinct in 2 weeks."

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  21. Talk about mining, in some capacity by chebucto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mining on Mars:
    - Mining underground gives 'free' protection from radiation
    - Technology of mining gives something interesting to talk about, once the spacefaring equipment has been discussed
    - Similarities between mining and space travel (seriously: both are artificial, hostile, tech-dependent environments) lets you draw parallels between what readers accept as pedestrian (yawn, a mine) and what readers see as amazing (wow, a spaceship!)
    - Dangers of mining give a realistic and easy way to introduce drama
    - The substance mined would have to be either very, very valuable on earth (basically, you'd need unobtanium), or, very valuable on Mars (basically, anything. Cost for transport from Earth = very high).
    -- So, the mine would need to operate in support of a colony. Any local metal or industrial mineral would be useful.
    -- By the same token, the mine would have to be small, because it would be supporting a new-ish (therefore small) colony

    Mining metallic asteroids:
    - Very shallow gravity well
    - Massive quantities of very pure metal, if you find the right one: pays for itself
    - Should probably be coupled with in-orbit refinery around earth, linked to a shipyard, unless there's a feasible way to bring giant hunks of stuff through the atmosphere without it burning up or destroying cities. This pushes the time forwards a few decades, at least

    --
    The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    1. Re:Talk about mining, in some capacity by pla · · Score: 1

      Just to second the mining idea, you have two obvious things to mine - Water-ice (which has some very interesting and potentially dangerous properties at low pressures), and various peroxides (which readily produces oxygen, but has the down sides of counting as both caustic and explosive). Mars has both of those in abundance, and they provide the two single biggest needs a newly founded colony would have, while providing plenty of challenges and danger to exploit for the plot.

  22. I hate to break it to you, but... by DragonHawk · · Score: 0

    a fictional story about a space mission.

    ... this has been done before.

    Sure, a good story can overcome its cliches, but the fact that submitter apparently doesn't have the first clue about what to write about doesn't bode well for the "good story" part.

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    1. Re:I hate to break it to you, but... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      ... this has been done before.

      Next you'll be telling us that 'boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back' has been done before and no-one should write another story with the same idea.

    2. Re:I hate to break it to you, but... by Surt · · Score: 1

      Yes please!

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    3. Re:I hate to break it to you, but... by crutchy · · Score: 2

      ...alien bursts out of girls (naked) chest and eats boy, ripley chimes in with "get away from her you bitch!" and mows it down with a minigun... NEVER gets old (i love you ripley *mwah*)

    4. Re:I hate to break it to you, but... by bughunter · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points for you today...

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    5. Re:I hate to break it to you, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read a book a while back that was about a bunch of people. Should probably avoid that too.

  23. Jupiter Moon and Apllo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I came across an a fairly interesting series on Hulu, Jupiter Moon an interesting story of students traveling as around on an old ship that was built not long after the first colonies. It was a school that faced challenging problems being very far from earth. Another thing you might try is reasearching all the old Apollo missions.

  24. Spelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spell "Mission" correctly. Will help make the whole endeavor more "professional".

  25. A few things by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To make sense, a manned mission has got to have goals that cannot utilize robots. So, any mission requiring ad-hoc methods -or- environments that are hostile to computers but well within the tolerances of humans. (Medium-to-high radiation where shielding can't be used, for example. So long as the human(s) involved are willing to undertake the risks and there's plenty of donor organs, humans actually aren't too bad in such environs.)

    A good example of an ad-hoc mission would be a Mars mission that created a sub-surface colony. Most of the water is underground, the ground's a great shield against both the Martian dust storms and the hard radiation, there's plenty of subsurface methane for fuel, and we already know that there are plenty of massive subsurface caverns that can be exploited. The problem with a robot mission there is that it's also shielded from radio contact, the terrain is totally unknown and we've zero notion of how the subsurface geology will dictate what can and cannot be done. Humans don't need radio, don't care about a few rocks, and can study the geology in a way that no AI can currently handle.

    Europa, although an "obvious" choice, is problematic. You don't just need water, you need lots of other resources and Europa isn't a good candidate for supplying those in a way that an exploration can easily use.

    Once you're past the moon, fuel isn't an issue. You can slingshot to any planet with about the same fuel budget. Time is the only resource that matters. That makes the inner planets potentially more interesting as the gaps increase dramatically as you go further out. Mercury's rotation is such that you could have a short-term manned mission to the dark side without risking frying anyone and the geology there is sufficiently weird that you might well want someone on the ground.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:A few things by mbone · · Score: 1

      Europa, although an "obvious" choice, is problematic.

      Yes. The radiation in the equatorial plane of Jupiter is incredibly intense. Someone who should know told me once that an unprotected human on the surface of Europa would die from the radiation before they died from vacuum exposure, which takes seconds. The Juno spacecraft has a radiation vault to protect its computer, or its lifetime in orbit would be measured in days. (Previous missions spent very little time in the equatorial plane, and could survive plunging through the very thin plane at speed OK.) A Europa base would almost certainly have to be in / under the ice to give the crew a chance of survival.

    2. Re:A few things by khallow · · Score: 1

      To make sense, a manned mission has got to have goals that cannot utilize robots. So, any mission requiring ad-hoc methods -or- environments that are hostile to computers but well within the tolerances of humans.

      Or a political/ideological bent that precludes robotic missions. If the political goal is "land people on Mars to show that we don't need to depend on those demon machines", then it wouldn't do to land robots on Mars instead of people, if even to scout out possible landing sites.

  26. Believability? by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Funny

    A few years ahead? Space colony?
    Ehmm, have you been following what is going on in the world? I was growing up in the 80's and I remember thinking how lucky I was. I mean we had supersonic consumer jets that could fly us across the Atlantic in 3 or so hours, so by the time I would grow up we would surely have faster and more jets, so I was really looking forward for those weekends in Australia! And then the US had exciting new and reusable space shuttles which could take 7 people up at a time, do their mission and land in an airport, boy was that exciting! I could only imagine how things would be when I grew up with space stations, moonbases (just as long as the moon did not leave its orbit in 1999, if you know what I mean), humans on mars etc.
    So you know how things turned out.
    You want believable? Put first colony in the solar system at least a hundred years in the future to avoid being alive and mocked when the proposed date has passed and all we have are 30-foot wide cars, 30 angstrom thick phones, 30 inch long penises...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Believability? by 32771 · · Score: 1

      "You want believable? Put first colony in the solar system at least a hundred years in the future to avoid being alive and mocked when the proposed date has passed and all we have are 30-foot wide cars, 30 angstrom thick phones, 30 inch long penises..."

      Yeah this is what it look s like.

      It's much worse though:

      http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/spaceresvol3/pmofld1a.htm\

      So his Story should start like, "After an international fusion energy consortium (probably not ITER) of the western/eastern block (assume more fractured blocks the further you go into an energy poor future) barely saved mankind in the 2040s from descending into stoneage 2.0, with the decline in net energy that made itself felt since at least 2006, it became possible to carry on with more sensible resource management to solve the most pressing of mankinds problems like preventing massive epidemics among earths starving people, and repairing much needed infrastructure.
      Once stable conditions prevailed, mankind used this final wakeup call to decide to expand into space, applying the precautionary principle religiously now since it had so long been neglected."

      Sorry for the long sentences.

      --
      Je me souviens.
    2. Re:Believability? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Wow, why am I modded funny? What I wrote makes me sad...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  27. Ask a Pro: Jerry Pournelle by raluxs · · Score: 1

    Jerry Pournelle

    He wont make your homework for you, maybe he won't even answer to you. But if he does then he could give you some really good starting points for your research.
    Good luck

  28. I'd take an extra S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't have too many S's on your mision.

  29. Obvious answer by PNutts · · Score: 1

    Uranus.

  30. It's already been done! by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    2001 trilogy
    BBC Space Odyssey: Voyage To The Planets ...just two out of a slew that I can't think of right now

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  31. Ok, I'll bite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    As for the destination, the moon and Mars are the obvious choices, but what else would make sense?

    --The Dogstar!!

    How long would it take to get there?

    --50 million fucking years!!!

    What could be the goals of the mission?

    --To get to the Dogstar!!!

    Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip?

    --Boring?! You're going to the fucking Dogstar!!!

    Any possible sightseeing for beautiful VFX shots?

    --WHAT??

    What would be the crew?

    --Space Hellhounds!!!!

  32. space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since most of the replies so far have either been disparaging or been references to other scifi works, I will do my best to actually answer your question.

    For the sake of accuracy, I am going to assume the following:

    The mission is 1 way.
    There will be no resupply operations.
    The colony must supply itself with infrastructue and supplies.

    That out of the way, here it goes.

    First, your crew must be over 500 people, and totally unrelated to each other. This is the bare minimum required for a stable breeding population. Any smaller, and you end up with an unviable population, a la the nazi eugenics colony experiments.

    Your crew cannot all be officers, administration, tech heads, et al. You positively have to include blue collar workers. Machinists, assembly workers, etc.

    In addition to this, you cannot presume to find food on the planet you are sending the colony ship to. At our distance from the nearest goldilocks planet, we can't even get a gross atmospheric spectrograph, let alone a detailed list of possible lifeforms. This means you have to not only take whatever food your mission needs for the trip through space, but also the means to produce food when you get there. Frozen domesticated animal embryos, collections of edible seeds and plantforms, etc. The works. It also means you have to take horticultural experts and farmers with you.

    In addition, there is a lot that can go wrong on such a mission. The colony ship will be in transit for over a hundred years to reach the nearest starsystem using the fastest possible forms of propulsion currently available to us. This *will* be a multigeneration voyage, and shit breaks. You have to be able to fix things and make spare parts. That means you need a complete factory and refinery complex built into the colony ship.

    In short, think of a space vessel with the combined cubic footage of new york state, comprising manufacturing, housing, environmental, and food cultivation systems, in addition to propulsion, power generation, water reclamation, and administration systems. You will be launching a small country into space. If it isn't at time of launch, it will be by the time it reaches its destination.

    The colony ship will be too large to land on the destination planet. It will need small craft to deposit transplanted lifeforms, colony site construction equipment and supplies, and ground personel on the surface. These craft need to be reusable. The colony ship would BE the supply line for the new planetary colony site. It would stay in orbit, produce and deploy any gps or com system satelite networks, and ensure the viability of the ground based colony as it develops.

    In addition to the lander craft, the colony ship would need service and resourcing craft to help keep the colony ship operational. The ship would be too large for unassisted spacewalks for repairs, so some form of space only maintenance and cargo tug craft would be necessary as well.

    This means the colony ship needs cargo bays, and docking bays, distributed around the ship.

    Due to the size of the ship, some form of internal rapid transit system for the crew will be necessary.

    The psychological integrity of the hermetically bottled colony ship population needs to be maintained. Recreational fascilities need to be available, including botanical gardens which serve no other purpose. (This means you need people to maintain them. Some bit of crossover in functionality can be possible with the horticultural experts developing new domestic plant varieties enroute in the botanical gardens.) It needs musicians, artists, poets, movie stars... the works.

    The colony ship has to contain epic shittons of water and biomass. It has to be able to reliably handle a growing population while in transit without overloading the environmental systems. It also has to be able to deflect cosmic energy for hundreds of years.

    The colony ship has to produce artificial gravity. This means it has to rotate in some fashion, as no other means of simulating gravity is currently known.

    If you are going to write a story about such a voyage, you have to explain how the earth managed to fund such an operation, and also why they did it.

    1. Re:space mission requirements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't need lots of people as long as you bring a bunch of frozen sperm and embryos.

    2. Re:space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Interstellar travel timetables would require whole humans procreating enroute.

      A trip to mars is only 6 months. A trip to kepler22b would take over 600 years.

      Depending on destination, the colony ships's needed design requirements would change. Hence, the name of the op.

    3. Re:space mission requirements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, your crew must be over 500 people, and totally unrelated to each other. This is the bare minimum required for a stable breeding population. Any smaller, and you end up with an unviable population, a la the nazi eugenics colony experiments.

      Frozen human sperm, eggs and embryos as well other sorts of biology may be sent routinely to the colonies replenish any genetic gaps.
      Also a new building architecture form called earth scrapers tower into the ground instead of up. This could help to protect the habitats from harmful radiation and the planet's severe weather conditions.
      As to why colonize, look up on the oldest city in North America. St. Augustine was settled by Greek colonists that were trying to escape the changing world and political turmoil of Europe.

    4. Re:space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      The requirements I stated presumed a one-way trip, with no resupply.

      Personally, I would take an initial crew of 1000, and over 5000 frozen embryos. This hedges bets against people chosing to be celebate, and against crew loss.

    5. Re:space mission requirements? by Teancum · · Score: 1

      Since we haven't even taken up niches in the Solar System that we know can work for human habitation (aka Moon, Mars, Europa, etc.), I think even the need for worrying about interstellar travel is a non-existent issue. Once the rest of the Solar System is teeming with interplanetary politics and we are talking about a joint interplanetary mission to another star system (aka financed jointly by multiple planets in the Solar System) will any such discussion about interstellar flight even be worth worrying about.

      Get people into space first. The furthest anybody has left the Earth in the 21st Century so far has been a few hundred miles above the surface, to the International Space Station as if that was a major accomplishment. The largest spacecraft that humanity has available right now is sufficient to hold a crew of just three people, and made only by one country at the moment, Russia. China doesn't count as they aren't even flying regularly, and America won't have a working spacecraft for anywhere from 5-10 years, assuming that Congress and/or the FAA will even permit those vehicles to fly with people.

      Regardless, I agree with your basic premise here that most "colonization" trips will likely be one way ventures. They don't strictly have to, and you can use an Aldrin Cycler for the travel between two significant destinations (aka Earth-Mars) with something like an enlarged DIRECT-X spaceship in interplanetary space. If somehow you can get a nuclear rocket going that can provide continuous powered thrust, in theory you can get an Earth-Mars trip down to about two to three weeks without having to worry about stuff like relativistic travel or really trying to invent new kinds of physics to make the trip.

    6. Re:space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed, mars, venus, titan, and europa are primary targets long before kepler22b and other distant bodies.

      Mars, titan, and europa would all be subterene colonies though, because surface condition will never be suitable for terrestrial life.

      Venus poses more challenge. Compositionally, it should have a magnetic field, and has plenty of internal energy to drive one. The problem is the smothering atmosphere. It keeps the crust so hot that it is just on the edge of melting. It is too hot at the surface for the mantle to convect, so no geomagnetic dynamo.

      A colony on venus would have to be a "cloud city", or orbital, wit hardened landers scooping up atmosphere and metalic rock from the surface. It is likely the last place that would be colonized, due to the challenges.

      Interesting ideas for it would be carbon fixation attempts, like engineering atmospheric microbes to precipitate the carbon out has high temperature plastics, like aramid. (Aramaid has a thermal breakdown temp of 500c. Just about right for venus's mean surface temp. Venus has mountains, which would be cooler. This means accumulation, and specific heat requirements to decompose "avalanches" that fall off, lowering the surface tempuratues just enough over time to really snow the shit out.)

      Venusian orbit would be a great place for the superstructure colony ship to be built. It is high in radioactive metals, the squishy crust would allow fairly easy extraction (given suitable fabrication materials) and the high concentration of atmospheric carbon would help stock the biomass requirements for the vessel. Water would have to come from either earth or europa. Nitrogen supplies perhaps from titan.

      It would be a mamoth construction project, and being closer to the sun would improve energy availability to enable such a task. (Doubtful it could be built in the outer solar system.)

      Breakaway from the solar system perhaps from a gravity shot around the sun.

      But yes, long before such a ship would be built, the local neighborhood would have to be fully populated.

    7. Re:space mission requirements? by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Venus is interesting because Oxygen can be considered a lifting gas there. A giant airship made with an oxygen interior would be sufficient for an object that could even be at an altitude near Earth "standard pressure & temperature", where even a tear in the envelope could be repaired on a human time scale.... it wouldn't even be an urgent repair. Making the skin of such a vehicle resistant to sulfuric acid might be more of a technical challenge, but not significantly so.

      I don't know of a reason why you would want to build such a vehicle as a colony, but for a scientific research post similar to the Amundsen-Scott base in Antarctica, I would imagine Venus would offer some substantial appeal and might even be easier to operate than the South Pole. If such a "colony" evolved from a basic research post and expanded somehow, with even an internal "spit" for political reasons that created a second or third "colony" ship, it could be very interesting, particularly with some extended interplanetary commerce as you pointed out. All told, living on/near Venus, even in an airship, would be perhaps the most "Earth-like" environment in the Solar System, so it certainly could be an interesting endeavor from a fictional standpoint.

      A very interesting place to start in terms of real vehicles traveling to Venus would be to look at the proposed Apollo Venus Flyby Mission that went as far as design work and even some preliminary testing of components that eventually were folded into the Skylab Missions. As an "alternative history" novel instead of necessarily Science Fiction, it would be interesting to see what manned flights to Venus might have done to American and world history if they had happened in the 1970's. That the idea was seriously considered at all and that the technology to perform that mission was available in the 1970's is even more amazing to me.

    8. Re:space mission requirements? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      if the ship is as large as described in the above comment another good idea would be for the landing craft be a base station for a space elevator conecting to the above space station/ship/colony.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    9. Re:space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Neat idea, but could be tricky with the colony ship in active rotation to maintain artificial gravity.

      Perhaps a detachable module?

    10. Re:space mission requirements? by Random2 · · Score: 1

      Also, if landing on a planet, don't forget about disease and biological factors. I know Wells already covered that, but it's still an important consideration.

      Since it's a flying city, new forms of life and bacteria may appear on the ship as it progresses.

      There's plenty of crap in space, and it's very probably to be in the way of the voyage.

      Need to deal with the radiation of space' AFAIK we don't actually have a solution worked out for living for years with cosmic rays just blasting through the ship.

      Double for the part about explaining how and why this event happened, the current social climate of the world would never see such a realization unless we're on the brink of extinction.

      Because of the smaller ships included for repairs and landing, the crew might also harvest resources from asteroids and other space material as the journey continues.

      --
      "Our goal each year should be to increase the number of goals we set for ourselves!"
    11. Re:space mission requirements? by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Water has a small interatomic space due to hydrogen bonding, and is mostly hydrogen.

      This makes it an ideal shielding material against cosmic rays.

      If we somehow, miraculously, manage to get past the "50 years from now" benchmark on fusion energy, capitalizing on the cosmic ray radiation to make the water into heavy water over centuries of time (reactor fuel water being isolated from life support water reserves for human consumption) you get a 2 for 1 deal.

    12. Re:space mission requirements? by Genda · · Score: 1

      They could mine the atmosphere and the planet's hyperabundant heat, to crack hydrogen and oxygen for fuel. They could then sell fuel to ships trafficking in the inner solar system. The signs would be awesome... next fuel stop 40 million clicks, come on in, get a bite, clean up, see the amazing Venusian sun sets.

    13. Re:space mission requirements? by Genda · · Score: 1

      Actually, you could easily provide all the shielding you need with as little as 3 feet of ice. Build a cylindrical craft whose outer wall is 5 meters of water ice with all the mineral salts that would be required to support all kinds of life to be brought on the mission. A powerful magnetic field further protect the craft from possible radiation storms and cosmic rays. A significant traction of the ice is heavy water for fusion reactors. A ship like this could make the trip between Earth and Mars in just a few weeks. Along the way it drops automated mining equipment on hundreds of near earth asteroids. These mines produce the raw materials including volatiles for the Martian colonies. That and rare metals for the economy on Earth. Ferry material to the Martian moons for dissemination to the planet from a local small gravity well.

      You want to have fun, make the ship a sentient life-form. A genetically engineered being, possible cetacean? Maybe avian? Its not a new idea, but it has a lot of possibility and we just now at the point where we are soon going to be able to engineer new life-forms. This would be a great use for the tech.

    14. Re:space mission requirements? by monktus · · Score: 1

      Maybe avian?

      I for one welcome our sentient turkey cyborg overlords.

      --
      Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
    15. Re:space mission requirements? by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      Okay, the guy said current tech, sometime in the near future. So your NY-sized ship is too large. Our current tech includes our social condition.

      So what *is* feasable? How about geosync orbit, or a location at one of the Earth/Moon stability points?

      Suppose the location is just a way-station to the moon? Resupply would probably happen at the moon's surface, since the energies involved are less. Solar power would probably be generated there, too, and the most power-intensive activities would happen there -- but that could be robotic.

      Now, looking at the station: You *do* need a good bit of mass for your vessel, but you also need to be able to defend it from small asteroids. So you need some defensive capability.

      Also, you can have a comparatively small vessel, with minimal airlock, if you simply rotate it. Do the calculations, a=v*v/r, and design a ship that has 1g at the living edge, and anything up to 1.3g around it, lower g inside that radius.

      The colony ship *does* need plants: they'll probably grow in the higher-g regions. They'll supply food, and recycle the air. The colony ship also needs good human-waste management. Such things going bad make up a good side event.

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
    16. Re:space mission requirements? by stevelinton · · Score: 1

      The atmosphere is mostly CO2, there is relatively little hydrogen (although obviously some in the sulfuric acid clouds. Also it's at the bottom of a pretty deep gravity well. You're better off mining ice on Mars and splitting it with solar or nuclear power, or even seawater from Earth. Apart from research, Venus seems like a remarkably useless planet so far.

  33. You are posting on the wrong site by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    The best one would be
    But some other good sites would be :
    1) bigelow aersopace
    2) space ref
    3) The Space Review

    And that should get your started.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  34. Advice: learn to spell mission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rest will fall into place.

  35. THe crew by Caerdwyn · · Score: 1

    In Earth orbit, you can always go home in an emergency. Even going as far as the moon, you can manually get home (as Apollo 13 demonstrated 41 years ago, and at least in theory we've learned something since then.

    Not so in interplanetary space. You're completely on your own, with no place to run to. Therefore your crew is going to have to be extraordinarily calm and self-sufficient, able to perform emergency repairs very quickly while the emergency is unfolding around your ears, and be able to do so in a cramped environment. Fortunately, there is a pool of people available who have exactly this training and experience: submarine crew.

    A submarine damage control specialist would make an excellent crew member for an interplanetary mission. Military members have the inside track to being considered for such missions anyway, and nothing beats a proven track record. Just as military test pilots were the first astronauts, a submariner would be an excellent candidate. Submariners are also frequently trained to deal with nuclear power units and, of course, nuclear warheads. In addition to dealing with tight quarters (moreso on a Russian sub than an American boomer), they're used to operating in an environment in which a shell of metal is what separates you from an instantly-lethal environment. An experienced submariner would have proven they can handle that particular psychological pressure.

    Now if you're into intrigues in your story, having someone like that as a crew member allows the opportunity to inject "the mission is actually secretly this much more interesting thing" into the mix. And what if this submariner has for his entire career been a mole for some other government? The Opposition would always be trying to get someone onto a U.S. or Russian missile boat, and what if they succeeded? And then what if that person did so well they were offered the position on the interplanetary mission? Oh, what an opportunity...

    --
    Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
  36. Read Ben Bova's "Moonbase" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read Ben Bova's "Moonbase" for a good overview of living in space and on a planetary colony.

  37. Read:Human to Mission Mars.Colonizing Red Planet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want it believable you'll want to read some spacecraft design books. "Human Mission to Mars. Colonizing the Red Planet" is on Amazon. Read the many papers it contains. It is a non-fiction solution-guide to colonizing Mars. If you are serious, start there.

    This may help - you've probably already read it - at least I hope you have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_mission_to_Mars

    Visiting and coming back is relatively simple compared to colonization. That is a completely different issue.

    Find some hard scifi stories to steal from or have someone with aerospace engineering experience help you with these items. To be believable, it is not 5 simple calculations. Your questions are NOT something that can be explained in a slashdot response.

    Sure, I can tell you that 8.5 months is needed to get to Mars based on a specific launch date based on Earth/Mars locations. That doesn't address weightlessness for all that time, solar radiation, re-entry dynamics, food production, habitat creation, oxygen generators, power generation, months of zero sunshine due to storms, Mars gravity causing muscle atrophy, etc. There are many, many, many challenges.

    Even the fantastic Red/Green/Blue Mars books overlooked many of the challenges.

  38. For fuck sake by nedlohs · · Score: 0

    Why not do you own trivial research?

  39. Well.... I'll give it a shot. by forkfail · · Score: 3, Funny

    A boy finds out that he is actually a Martian, and that there are many Martians living amongst the humans on Earth (which they call Puggles). He also discovers that his parents were killed by an evil Martian King who wants to rule all the Martians, but whose ship crashed into an asteroid years ago during a failed attach on the protagonist's birth cache ship.

    The protagonist is taken to a special school in Area 51, where he falls in love with a Venutian girl. However, this relationship is made extremely complex, as she can't be in direct sunlight (the cloud cover on Venus prevents this). Also, in her true form, she is a horrible parasitic being who sparkles and glitters.

    Furthermore, the protagonist discovers that the one thing he has from his dead parents is a dvd containing the Bing search engine code. Strange reptilian monsters, referred to as Mozillas, are after him, trying to reclaim what is theirs.

    Eventually, things reach a climax, when, with winter coming, and his instructors with arrows through their knees due to a series of freak accidents, our hero steals an rocket ship and flies to Mars. Despite an attempt by his iHal to throw him out of an airlock, he eventually reaches Mars, where he is able to climb Mt. Olympus and destroy the One Bing, thus saving the solar system.

    The End.

    --
    Check your premises.
    1. Re:Well.... I'll give it a shot. by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Oh - and... because this is slashdot:

      "Writing is like driving a car. Too many people doing at once leads to horrible accidents."

      --
      Check your premises.
  40. Read Baxter. by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

    Check out Stephen Baxter's Titan. Almost exactly that scenario, and brilliantly done. If you can come close to that then I look forward to reading your work :)

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  41. Titan? by toutankh · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Titan (one of Saturn's satellites). I believe it took Cassini-Huygens 7 years to reach it, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassini-Huygens
    Titan shares similarities with Earth, which makes it a good candidate for science fiction, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon) for an extensive description.
    It has among others lakes of liquid methane (not water, too cold there), a lot of water ice, an atmosphere with seasons, wind and rain (although not of water).

    I would also emphasize social problems (as mentioned above) such as people getting along, people willing to reproduce (being attracted + having a decent libido), people not willing to kill each other. Brining genetic diversity issues in sounds good too: if 20 settlers go colonize Titan, then after a few generations they might all turn out stupid. You can even use it as a funny metaphor with any colonized country, e.g. by naming your spaceship the Mayflower.
    Don't forget mission members' ability to deal with common medical problems (e.g. violent toothache that requires quick surgery). And of course don't forget the totally new diseases that humans have never been exposed to such as Titan's purple death.

    If you are looking for paranoid scenarios then I recommend playing the first part of the Knight Of The Old Republic II, The Sith Lords video game, where a single robot exterminates the crew of a whole mining station and turns everyone against each other in a clever and funny fashion. That is, if you can play through it without having the game cashing.

  42. One of the best resources by jayrtfm · · Score: 1

    http://www.hobbyspace.com/ has collected blurbs and links to just about everything space related.
    I also recommend you read "The High Frontier" by Gerald K O'Niel, and "The Rocket Company"
    by Patrick J. G. Stiennon & David M. Hoerr

  43. Necessary Reading by Teancum · · Score: 3, Informative

    One Wikipedia article that you absolutely must read if you want to do any sort of "serious" Science Fiction involving travel in the solar system is to read up on Delta-v for travel in the Solar System. These articles are essential:

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion
    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_travel
    • Make sure you read up on very real "spaceship" (as opposed to spacecraft) that is being proposed by NASA engineers: The NAUTLUS-X

      Travel in space is all about energy, and you need it in heaping piles that are incredibly efficient in how that energy is used, as well as fuel sources that are incredibly dense in terms of potential energy storage for such a journey. All of this is in terms of how you get there, and to be perfectly honest there are still a whole bunch of unknowns. More importantly, there is very little if any sort of biological research that has gone into the long-term effects of partial-gravity environments, considering that the Apollo missions were mostly like weekend camping trips rather than any sort of serious attempt to stay somewhere for a substantial period of time.

      One thing that I find especially sad is that there has been absolutely no research at all to find out the physiological impacts of zero-g environments, much less partial gravity environments, upon the gestational development of a placental mammal. You hear all sort of conjecture flying about from supposedly intelligent scientists on the matter and talk of sterilization of the first participants to long-term stays elsewhere in the Solar System, but I think all of that is a bunch of hogwash as the proper answer is simple "we don't know". There might not be problems, but there might be issues too, or potential ways to mitigate the issues that come from having sex in space and producing children. Note here I'm talking even studies of mice, rats, guinea pigs, or any other kind of creature has never been studied in terms of what happens when they produce kids. Mice have gone on board the ISS, but they are intentionally kept separate and explicitly not permitted to have sex. I think this is something criminal in terms of keeping that sort of knowledge from being developed, and is to me one of the things that should have been studied years ago, particularly in light of potential plans for travel to other planets. Make a wild guess as to what happens, and know comfortably that nothing has been studied so the ideas of a 3rd grader is just as good as a PhD in terms of this particular issue.

      There are terrestrial studies (stuff done entirely on the Earth) of population groups and the minimum number of people you may need for a viable self-sustaining population. Even there, however, don't get hung up on the piddling details of what it takes to make a sustainable colony as no colony is going to be completely isolated from the rest of humanity, unless your story has an apocalyptic flavor and the isolation from the rest of humanity is part of the story itself.

      Some overlooked issues include worrying about base machines that make machines. In spite of some very interesting progress along the way, I don't see 3D printers becoming the ultimate source of tool making on Mars or somewhere else in the Solar System, and good standbys of things like a lathe, grinder, and other machine shop tools are going to be critical items to take on any sort of extra-terrestrial trip. I envision that one of the very first tasks for

  44. fictional story about space mission with realism by crutchy · · Score: 1

    The world finally realizes how fucked up capitalism is after global financial markets implode on themselves, and the US loses its reserve currency status and becomes a more dangerous place to live than Mogadishu. Then like-minded people begin establishing non-profit companies using government loans to drive the greedy corporates out of business (mass marketing driving consumer sentiment, competitive pricing, etc) and the non-profits eventually band together when they have a combined revenue higher than most countries, form an R&D group and develop a fleet of horizontal takeoff and landing single stage to orbit space planes with an operational launch cost to LEO of under $100/tonne so that then space becomes truly accessible to the average person.

  45. Want to make it realistic? by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

    Have Congress cut the funding at the last minute.

    --
    Bark less. Wag more.
  46. Read Red Mars by ukemike · · Score: 2

    Read Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson.

    --
    -- QED
    1. Re:Read Red Mars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson.

      And then bleach your mind. Red Mars was good in many ways, but a lot of what it talks about is quite unrealistic. Put terraforming out of your mind: the process is too expensive and too time consuming for a first-stage colony to even consider. Colonists would be unlikely to even start working on it for several generations: they'll have more pressing concerns, like ensuring they can survive the next year, rather than wondering about how their great-great-grandchildren will live in a hundred or so years' time.

    2. Re:Read Red Mars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally!
      It's already been written...

  47. A few years is too soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you say, "a few years" I assume you mean less than 10 years. I think that's too soon unless something really lights a fire under our asses. The first part of your story would have to be about what that is. Depending on what it is, it might weave itself throughout the fabric of the story. You could go for the "runaway greenhouse global warming" scenario, in which case any number of publishers will take it and any number of AGW zealots will automaticly have to buy it. A more difficult but perhaps more interesting sell for me would be the ongoing global financial crisis leading to the space industry as a Keynesian stimulus, in cooperation with major world governments. The tension amongs an international crew is always good for some drama.

    Ah, but you wanted technical advice. In just a few years? Russian craft for manned LEO. Recycled US electronic tech based on our probes for high reliability in deep space, and long durations. The physical craft for deep space, now that might be a bit more of a challenge. We could use Mir tech I suppose, but it's getting kind of old. Given the short timeframe, how about one last shuttle launch? It doesn't have to re-enter and there's a lot of space in the cargo bay. Break those bad boys out of the museums, send 'em to Mars. Bonus points if you can figure out how to land a shuttle there. You've got the atmosphere, but no runway. Runway building robots, yay... but... not enough time. Retro packs for the shuttles, have 'em land like in Space 1999. That'd work on the Moon too, which is a more realistic target for all of this...

  48. Resource link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was going to suggest http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/, but based on your questions, I think a better place to start would be
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceDoesNotWorkThatWay

  49. stardestroyer.net by NortySpock · · Score: 1

    I'm a member of the stardestroyer.net forums, and there are some very sharp people on that site who would be happy to give you a hand with the technical side of things. They also have a user-fiction section just for writing stories, and some of the ones posted there are pretty damn good.

    Just be polite. And make sure you have a thick skin. And do your homework first.

    As for your questions, I can take a stab at them...
    As for the destination, the moon and Mars are the obvious choices, but what else would make sense?
    Near Earth Asteroids, Venus (reasonably habitable 50 km up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat_habitats_and_floating_cities), Phobos, Deimos. Moons of Saturn might work, Titan and Enceladus being the more interesting ones.

    How long would it take to get there?
    http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/appmissiontable.php
    Also the rest of the atomic rockets site I just linked has very good stuff for just this type of question.

    What could be the goals of the mission?
    There are maybe three broad categories, I'd say: political (Why did we go to the moon anyway? To rub it in the Soviet's faces.), monetary, and scientific.
    Beyond that, well, you tell me, you're the writer. He3 mining on the moon? Political/Religious refugees? Life found on Mars means everyone wants to go see it? There are a lot of semi-plausible explanations. Which is all you need to start a rattling good yarn (sometimes not even then).

    Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip?
    Micrometeroid punches a hole in the ship. Solar CME event burps a lot of radiation at the ship. The engine stops working. The AE-35 communication dish develops a fault and they can't talk to earth. The plants (the ones that provide air and feed people, you know) get sick/die. The biologist comes unglued and murders someone. I mean, this is stuff off the top of my head, man.

    And there's always turnaround day for continuous acceleration ships. (The fastest way to get anywhere in space besides FTL travel is a continuous acceleration route, where you burn the engine to speed up halfway to your destination, then flip the ship over and burn the engine to slow down. Flipping the ship you have to do with the engine off, so everyone goes weightless for a few hours or a day while the ship turns end for end.) In some universes this is traditionally accompanied by a celebration or a special dinner or something, along with funny things like (say) bolting the floor furniture to the ceiling or having the most junior officer head up dinner instead of the captain.

    Any possible sightseeing for beautiful VFX shots?
    Space is beautiful, kid. There are always good VFX shots.

    What would be the crew?
    Captain, doctor, science, communications, pilot, engineering (the astute among you will notice I'm actually listing off bridge positions from the original Star Trek...)
    Ok, come on, kid, I'm not going to do all your homework for you. If you can't even be bothered to look up or think up common crew positions, why bother helping those who won't help themselves?

    Seriously, most of this stuff could be answered with some intelligent usage of Wikipedia and Google and a few hours of spare time. I answered this because I was bored and was familiar with it, but if you actually care, why aren't you looking this up for yourself? If you did already, say that you did, but want geek's valuable opinions. (and they'll fall all over themselves to give it).

    Because right now the summary looks like you are lazy and can't be arsed to look this stuff up yourself. Do your homework, and intelligent people will be much more interested in helping you help yourself.

  50. There was a Google Tech Talk... by bmuon · · Score: 2

    ...about a trip to "mars". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZo36huahoI Summary:

    "Presented by David D. Levine.

    In January 2010 I spent two weeks at the Mars Desert Research Station, a simulated Mars base in the Utah desert. Although the Martian conditions were simulated, the science was real, as were the isolation, hostile environment, and problems faced by the six-person crew. Although my official title was Crew Journalist, I soon found myself repairing space suits, helping to keep the habitat running, and having interplanetary adventures I'd never before imagined. My talk on the experience is profusely illustrated with photographs and has gotten rave reviews. Please see http://bentopress.com/mars/ for more information."

  51. Zubrin has done this all for you by lukeaar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Have a look at 'The Case For Mars' and 'Entering Space: Creating a Spacefaring Civilization' by Robert Zubrin. The first bascially explains step-by-step how we can use present-day tech to send humans to Mars within a decade and goes on to explain how it would be possible to terraform the planet with Martian natural resourced etc. The second book reaches out further, exploring the idea of using Mars (for example) as a stepping stone for missions aimed outside of our solar system.

    1. Re:Zubrin has done this all for you by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Have a look at 'The Case For Mars' and 'Entering Space: Creating a Spacefaring Civilization' by Robert Zubrin.

      And then, once you've done so, drop 'em in your recycling bin (to prevent them from being read by others) and promptly forget their contents. Seriously, they're deeply flawed because Zubrin has a very shaky grasp on what constitutes "present-day tech". Much of what he confidently proposes as key technologies for the mission are vapor/paperware that haven't even been tested as bench prototypes, let alone properly engineered and tested.

  52. Start here. by khasim · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/misconceptions.php
    A site devoted entirely to helping with exactly that issue.

    1. Re:Start here. by ChinggisK · · Score: 4, Funny

      -1 Overrated. I was very disappointed when your link did not tell me how to get to the magical cheese factory.

    2. Re:Start here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no windows in space craft? Find me a single human operated space craft made in the last 50 years that hasn't had a window in it.

    3. Re:Start here. by JordanL · · Score: 2

      Those things, which are presented unequivocally as absolutes, are based on the understanding that we have more or less made all the fundamental physics discoveries our universe has to offer, which is a profoundly stupid and arrogant thing to believe.

    4. Re:Start here. by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      At this time, the magical cheese factory (otherwise known as the Government Oversight on Unusual Defense Applications) is still technically classified even though everyone knows it's there.

    5. Re:Start here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the point is porthole != panoramic ballroom window.

    6. Re:Start here. by IwantToKeepAnon · · Score: 1

      From the link: "Space Is Not An Ocean" and "Rockets Are Not Boats"

      So we will never have solar sails?

      --
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
  53. Writing for free... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to write an essay for college, copy from Wikipedia. If you want to write a science-fiction story, copy from Slashdot.

  54. 50 Years From Now On by qwerty765 · · Score: 1

    By the year 2025, China surpasses US in terms of economic output. It will have pebble-bed reactors ready for production. In 2020 - 2030, China should have a space station in orbit. By the year 2050, China should robotically colonize and mine the moon for Helium-3 if fusion power plants prove to be feasible.

    This is as realistic as possible.

  55. Send Mars some comets. by Unmitigated+Gaul · · Score: 1

    They attempt to make Mars habitable by pummeling it with comets in an attempt to deliver Mars with water, methane, etc. The pummeling also heats up the planet. They retrieve the comets from the kuiper belt using gravitation towing. The towing is done by probes or piloted by humans, your choice. Something goes wrong. A Comet heads toward Earth or towards the habitation zone on Mars. Or a whole of comets get disturbed due to the slightly chaotic nature of the solar system. Also, the pilot is a women or an android or both.

  56. Make sure to include one person in a red shirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because you never know....;)

  57. Colony by mbone · · Score: 1

    Deep space (outside the van Allen belts, i.e., anything but low Earth orbit) has a serious amount of radioactivity. This takes two forms

    - Solar flares (where the solar radiation suddenly increases by many orders of magnitude). These require shelters, with warning times in hours. The worst (biggest) flares could kill an unprotected human. These are most likely to occur at certain times of the solar cycle, and there might be a few a year to really worry about then.

    and

    - Galactic cosmic radiation (high energy particles - aka cosmic rays). The lifetime occupational dose for an astronaut would be reached in about 2 years. So, these can be (more or less) ignored for voyages, but cannot be ignored for habitation. In particular, a pregnant woman will need serious shielding.

    Now, there is a wrinkle in shielding for high energy galactic cosmic radiation - these particles have kinetic energies > the rest mass energies of pions, protons, and the like, and, so, when they hit a nucleus in the shielding, they turn into a shower of pions, protons, and the like, each of which itself has enough energy to be dangerous. On the Earth, we avoid this as this all happens 20 + km up. In space, that means that a modest amount of shielding can make things worse if it is close to you. So, you either need room, or a lot of shielding, or both. And, if people work outside (or in lightly shielded auxiliary ships or stations) they need a solar flare warning system plus some sort of shelter within easy reach.

    So, if by colony you mean "a place where children are brought to term," you need to address this. That, to me, says that the first colonies (under that definition) will be either on the Moon, in lunar caves (aka lunar skylights), where 40+ of rock will provide excellent shielding (and where lunar ice likely exists and will be much easier to access than at the Lunar poles), or in a O'Neill type cylinder or habitat, where there is enough space to shield the inhabitants properly. If I had to guess, the O'Neill cylinder / habitat would be at least 1 km long, and would be made from either Lunar material (brought up by a Lunar Space Elevator), or from an asteroid (and probably made in place, i.e., using asteroid material without moving it very much.

    By the way, water (liquid or ice) would make an excellent shield, if you don't have megatons of rock handy.

  58. If it hasn't been posted already by koan · · Score: 1

    Mining missions and sustained occupation of the Oort cloud and asteroid belt getting resources for a drained earth, you could have hollowed spun up asteroids for gravity and growing food, mining of the Oort cloud for fuels and rare elements, and a 30 billion human population existing primarily in space with a possible sub-plot of near star travel using asteroid habitats.
    Personally I would stay away from the Moon and Mars, done to death and really boring terrain, though if it's fiction you could throw a few deserted alien cities on Mars or wreckage on the Moon.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  59. If You're Serious... by actingkeith · · Score: 1

    I work as a script doctor in Los Angeles, I studied Astronautical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin, and my senior thesis was on the viability of a Martian colony.

  60. Additive manufacturing and bacterial engineering by Karmashock · · Score: 0

    First, your space mission will probably be done entirely by robots if you're going fully for believability.

    Second, something the aerospace industry and now NASA are playing with is additive manufacturing. Google it if you don't know. But that's the future of space exploration right now because it completely changes what is possible. Rather then sending a probe or a mission to a given location and then waiting for it to die only to send a replacement years later. We can instead repair, upgrade, and replace sophisticated machinery with little more then a radio signal given that the machine has the on-board capability to recycle/refine, manufacture, and assemble it's own parts. It's still early days for this technology but it's already working. They can make aerospace parts with the sophistication of human bone. Lighter, stronger, cheaper. There is also the ability to print circuits on paper using metallic ink. I don't know how that would be recycled and reused in space but possibly the circuits could be scraped off the material when not needed and new circuits printed as needed. Finally, we're starting to play with truly programmable chips that will allow you to change the internal nature of their circuits with programming. This could allow for on the fly changes to chips. A full upgrade might not be possible but you could re purpose just about any chip that uses this technology.

    3. Bacterial engineering will likely be the future of low energy refining technology. If a robot needs to break down minerals on another world it probably doesn't have the luxury of a blast furnace or huge vats of chemicals. Instead all it might have is a little packet with specially engineered bacteria, a little heat, some water, some oxygen, and time. The process seems slow to us but the energy investment is so low that for the same energy it would take to run a tiny furnace you could instead farm tons bacteria working on breaking down a given mineral. It's vastly more efficient. At intervals the robot can harvest the processed mineral, feed in more material, and give the bacteria whatever they need to survive. Even if the robot has to leave the system for a time and most of the bacteria dies. It's unlikely that it will all die so it can be restarted rather easily. And even if they do all die, all it takes is a few more cells added from storage to get hte process going again.

    I don't know what you intend with your space story. But that's what comes to my mind.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  61. two things by toxygen01 · · Score: 1

    1. Enceladus (because it "is emerging as the most habitable spot beyond Earth in the Solar System for life as we know it")
    2. You might want to get in touch with these guys http://www.l5-series.com/ one of them worked at nasa or esa and you might be interested in the series too

  62. Launch an epic nuclear fleet from the Moon by DrStrangluv · · Score: 1
    A few thoughts:

    If you're thinking colonization, plan to use and coordinate between more than one ship. You're moving at incredible velocities, but need to avoid a collision and need to not have long waits between arrival times, even though they'll all be following similar paths. An accident with a ship early in the launch could leave debris that is problematic for those that follow.

    Even with a good sized fleet, the ships would have to be immense... too big to easily launch from the Earth's surface in one go. Use the moon as staging and assembly area where modules are pieced together to make a larger whole.

    Talk about advances in using nuclear energy for propulsion. I don't mean (just) nuclear electricity generation, and I don't mean Orion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)]. I mean real research into more efficiently using the massive energy created from nuclear reactions to propel the craft in space. The steam=>turbine process we use today is just not very efficient at converting that energy into something usable, but in space there might be more options. Because of the risk of contamination, use conventional rockets to first reach the moon and for the initial escape when leaving the moon.

    Just preparing the launch from the moon is a process that will take nearly a decade, so go epic and start somewhere in the middle.

    Know how to slow down. You'll want to get the ship going as fast as you can. One benefit of somehow harnessing a nuclear reaction is the ability to constantly apply thrust. But you need to plan for a way to slow down as well. Use your destination's gravity to help. Since you're bringing a fleet, you might have a couple ships pass just too far from the planet, miss their chance, and shoot off into space with no hope of recovery before life support runs out.

    Destination: you need a place where you can sustain, indefinitely, near-Earth temperature and gravity, water, breathable atmosphere, and the radiation protection provided by the outer layers of the atmosphere. Such a place does not exist outside of Earth in our Solar system, so you'll have to make one up.

    First up is heat. The only thing in the solar system that puts out enough is the sun. Unfortunately, it has far too much heat for any planetary orbit closer in, and far too little for any planetary orbit further away. We're lucky Earth is the distance from the sun that it is. We'll have to make do the a gas giant, since they also radiate heat. They don't radiate enough heat, but it's the best we can, few people will know this, and it is fiction, after all. I propose Saturn. Prior missions to Saturn have taken a little over three years. With the upgraded propulsion, look to do it in about 1/4 that.

    Next up is gravity. Humans can do very well on low-G, with astronauts spending over year in space without too many ill effects, so anything 1/4 the size of earth on up is fine. You ought to be able to pick a nice rock out of Saturn's asteroid belt. It's good to be a little on the small side, because that will make it easier for your colonists to leave their new home and mine Saturn's rings for resources. For water, let's suppose the particular rock is chosen because it just happens to have a nice supply underground. Your colonists will actually mine for water.

    The asteroid will also have a cave system. Your near-future colonists will have no hope of terraforming a breathable atmosphere, so their plan will be to seal existing caves, and to create oxygen atmosphere within those caves by boiling it out of the water they mine. Good thing they brought a lot of uranium. The cave system will also provide the needed radiation protection in place of an atmosphere.

    I think that about covers it for now.

  63. NASA is yanked during transit by manu0601 · · Score: 2

    Make it beleivable: During the journey to mars, yet another bank crisis yield US budget to its knees, and the new house decide to cut budget by yanking NASA. Your crew is on its own.

  64. If It Is a First Colony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it is a first Space Colony, it will be to the Moon.

    Transit time is about 3 days.

    You will be sending Robots and People.

    You will be building mining and refining facilities, as well as living facilities.

    Agriculture will be quite different, due to the 14 to 15 day long days and nights. Plants we use are adapted to 24 your days. It may be more or less, and longer light than dark cycles. Agriculture will be a VITAL skill. Plan on about 5-10% of your people being ag specialists. Most of the people will be miners. This will be about 40-50% of the people. Maintenance and repair for equipment will be another 20%. Administration will be another 10%. Teachers, medical and Scientists/Engineers/Computer Jocks will be the remainder.

    There will probably be more Men than Women. Don't take Children on the first trip. They will follow later. So will extra Women.

    The Moon is a good choice because there are lots of resources there. It is easy to ship back to the Earth. An electromagnetic catapult will be able to launch anything in an iron container back to the Earth. With a small packaged rocket on board, it could enter the atmosphere and fall to a recovery zone. There is not product that can be shipped back to Earth to pay the way for a colony with a two way trip, but one way back is easy and fairly cheap. If you don't need to make Rockets, or only small thrusters, then it becomes easy.

    Like the early British Colonies in North America and Australia, The colonists will have long term contracts. 7 years was the standard 300 years ago, it may just be that way again.

    It will be a small group. It will grow, as the colony gains enough by shipping back to earth, the Colony can pay for more shipments of colonists. there will probably be another shipment of people every couple of years. More, if they find a valuable deposit of something like Rare Earth elements. That could make it as often as a couple of times a year.

    With small groups, and necessarily limited living space, there will be a lot of human drama.

    The food supply will be quite limited at first. Algae is a very boring diet. Vegetables will be slower, and much more limited in availability. Meat will be a terribly expensive luxury for probably the first decade. Things we might not like will be the easiest solution. Worms can be made into a substitute for hamburger, and they don't take up much space. Worms will also be a necessary part of the ecology.

    It is necessary to have at least three steps in the food chain. The plants are one step, the decay of the matter is another step, and the worms eating the byproducts are a third step. Each step eliminates some pathogens.

    It will be necessary to absorb the CO2 and burn the methane and other gasses that are byproducts of people, and the other living things. As strange as it seems, oxygen will be used up to treat the air after the ordeal of generating it in the first place. Air monitoring and treatment will be more important than water monitoring and treatment.

    Dust on the Moon is a problem, it is very abrasive. We know a lot about dust collection and filtering. We will need to know more.

    Power is an issue also. You can do anything if you have enough power. Nuclear power would be ideal, but is very heavy to ship from Earth. Solar is easy to come by, and can be produced locally. The problem is that it's not there half of the time.

    The problem with Solar is solvable though. In the late 1970's NASA worked out a system for space. It's an Aluminum/Oxygen fuel cell. During the day hours, refine aluminum. Capture the oxygen given off. Process the aluminum into sheets. During the night weeks, use the fuel cells to provide the power to keep the plants and people alive. It's just a question of waiting for sunrise.

    These fuel cells can operate vehicles too. This is a game maker. It is a way to use and store power. Aluminum can on the moon be like gasoline is on Earth.

    Socially, this will have some dramatic results. Long hours during day weeks, and

  65. Mars and moon are dull. Go to Saturn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to me that Mars and the moon are dead ends because there's little economic reason to go and exploring isn't sufficient reason to justify the establishment of a colony.

    I really think that Saturnian moons are the best bet: Plenty of complex molecules from which to manufacture stuff, some atmosphere, enough gravity to be comfortable and no expensive gravity well. Plus you might be able to have an economic reason to be there - perhaps refining hydrocarbons and flinging them on slow trajectories back to LEO.

  66. In the not too distant future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We still won't be able to loft a colony in one go, nor will we be able to move it all out of the gravity well in lumps without expending HUGE amounts of fuel we just won't have. Simply put, you will need to put a limited colony on the moon or a captured asteroid for the purpose of mining the resources the actual colony will need. With every resupply, add an number of people until it is fully manned and fully functional.

    I recommended the moon for a few simple reasons: It's close, and a set distance (give or take). It has materials we can use, and since it is tide locked, a colony will always (or never) have a communication link. Finally, with only 1/6G, and no atmosphere, it presents little problem getting mass off the surface as opposed to a full G. This makes the moon an ideal launch platform for further colonization of our solar system and beyond.

    The trick is that we have to figure out how to incite companies to want to do this. Business can be convinced, and will stay interested, which is something one cannot say of governments. The US has an attention span half live of only 4 years, so if a politician did something about colonization, the odds are that another would reap the rewards while he would get blamed for the costs. Since political parties flip flop, again, the odds are a Democrat would start it (or Republican if it could be said to have something to do with national security), but the opposite party would cash in, even claiming to have had the foresight to authorize it.

    Back to business... figure out what is on the moon in massive supply that would make it worthwhile to go there. This is how to sell it and make traction. Yes, this discussion is way past theoretical at this point, but you need a factual (or at least consistent) framework to make a believable and entertaining story. This post will posted anonymously, but I will sign it so you can find me with some due diligence if you wish.

    -I. M. Patient

  67. Kepler-22b would be more interesting by SmarterThanMe · · Score: 1

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/12/kepler-22b/ At 1% of the speed of light (which is still probably technically impossible) it would take 6000 years. People would have to "sleep" (cryogenics?) to reach it. The craft would be massive, containing thousands of individuals. It would accelerate constantly to the halfway point then decelerate constantly from there; that would be a challenge in and of itself. Lots of interesting stuff that you could just make up from there. :)

  68. A Lion on Tharthee and Halfway to Anywhere by steveha · · Score: 1

    I suggest you read the novel A Lion on Tharthee by Grant Callin. It discusses the engineering challenges of making a self-sufficient environment to support human life far away from repair shops and spare parts. (It's just plain a fun novel too, worth reading for its own sake; you might want to start with the novel that came before it to get the full story in the correct sequence.)

    Out of print, but you can get it used through Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Lion-Tharthee-Grant-Callin/dp/0671653571

    For non-fact, you should probably read the book Halfway to Anywhere by G. Harry Stine. I say "probably" because I haven't read it yet, but everything I have heard about it is good.

    We managed to go to Earth's moon by the quick-and-dirty method, with a single rocket launch; it makes much more sense though to build out some infrastructure. A spacecraft for a Mars trip should be built in Earth orbit. There should be some way to cheaply send up things like fuel that are tough and expendable; maybe a linear accelerator on the Equator or something. I think Halfway to Anywhere talks about such stuff.

    I believe the title of that book refers to a comment by Robert A. Heinlein: Once you have escaped Earth gravity, you are halfway to anywhere in the Solar System.

    Michael Flynn wrote a series about a serious plan to get into space by private industry in the near future. I think the first novel in the series is called Firestar. IIRC they used a super-cannon to send fuel canister into orbit; someone called the cannon "God's Own Shotgun".

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  69. Advice by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 1

    Don't trust Klingons

  70. Mission: Backup of Civilization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out http://spaceshipearthbeta.com for a Bucky-esque overview of a potential mission. I think a Lagrange point is a fun alternative destination to Mars and the Moon. Email me if you want to brainstorm.

  71. Packing for Mars by fredness · · Score: 1

    Read it, then add your own sauce.

    http://www.maryroach.net/packing-for-mars.html

  72. Some ideas by VanillaCoke420 · · Score: 1

    As for the destination, the moon and Mars are the obvious choices, but what else would make sense?

    For our first colony, the Moon or Mars makes sense. The Moon would be the easier choice, while Mars would be much farther away and perhaps be more interesting for that and other reasons. Ganymede or the other two big icy moons of Jupiter would be interesting too. Or maybe the first mission to establish a mining operation on an asteroid?

    How long would it take to get there?

    Depends. The Moon, a few days. Mars, with current technology around six months, although that could be reduced if you use plasma propulsion for example.

    What could be the goals of the mission?

    Maybe a precursor/pathfinder mission to prepare for the following big colony missions? Or maybe just a research base?

    Any events or tasks that could punctuate an otherwise predictably boring long trip?

    Just from our space missions there are a number of problems that has occurred in reality. Problems with heating or cooling, explosions, fires, collisions between ships, problems with carbon-dioxide scrubbing, loss of attitude control... The problems alone that can come up are many, if you add in the danger of space flight, the human factor, computer hardware/software failures. Also, radiation, micrometeorites, the effect of low G on the human body, the possible effects psychologically of living for months in a confined space far away from home, etc. Tasks could include course alterations, scientific experiments and observations, daily maintenance, etc.

    Any possible sightseeing for beautiful VFX shots?

    On Mars of course you have the Valles Marineris, Olympus Mons, dried up floodbeds, craters, volcanoes, dust deviles, the annual dust storm that pretty much covers up the entire planet... etc. If you establish a base on one of Mars's two moons, Mars itself would be prominent and probably a beautiful sight in the sky. On the Moon, all kinds of interesting things. Mountains, craters, maria, etc.

    What would be the crew?

    I'm thinking international, no matter if it's a government project or entirely private endeavour. Men and women, of course. For the establishment of a research base, I would have only adults. Could be different on a larger colony mission of course. Artificial intelligence would be part of it, whether it's the ship's computer, robots or intelligent systems built-in in the spacesuits for example.

  73. Drop the preconceptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try to see each planet as a time/profit solution.
    Colonies are made for a reason. Almost always for the home's needs.

    So:
    Mercury: Sunlight; rapid transit; low gravity.
    Venus: Atmospheric mining? Colonization is not a commercial issue. So it would be a long term{social,religious} issue.
    Earth: Sorry. Already here. Accept for the L4 and L5. Moon? Again. What can it provide the home commercially?
    Mars: A bust. This is a burnt out world. Like a white dwarf, it's past it time. To make it useful to humans (a curious requirement), you need to increase it's magnetic field (get the core turning). Local increases are pointless. They actually help strip the atmosphere. Then there's a gravity well with little at the bottom. Read some Larry Niven about that. Mars is a racial project, and as we don't have racial energy yet, not really a good subject for a story (not the yet).
    Asteroids: Been done. See Larry Niven.
    Jupiter: Interesting subject as our knowledge is changing a lot. Again. HomeColony interaction; where is the money or motivation.
    Outward it just gets worse for story telling. You need what's available, material in cold storage, someplace else, to make the outer solar system worthwhile.

  74. A flight to Titan would make sense by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    It has an atmosphere dense enough not to require pressure suits. With a source of oxidizers, the atmosphere could be used as fuel. It has a fluid cycle similar to Earth. Landings can be done entirely by parachute.

  75. Some thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stephen Baxter has written many good books with similair concepts, and he too strives for realism. Ben Bova also has his "tour of the solar system" group of books, about colonies and events at numerous locations around the solar system.

    Some points to ponder:

    Why build a colony or even just send an expedition?
    The answer to that would be your underlying theme, or at least influence the events. Is it to escape disaster? (slightly plausible) As part of a new space race, an expensive folly just to "win" (which might be likely given China's push for space)? Or will it be commercial driven, large corporations striving to make a profit somehow?

    I think the Commercial approach would be most likely. In the near future governments aren't going to have the cash for such a large project - but there's major mining companies making billions of dollars profit every year (hello BHP and Rio Tinto - combined would be something like $25 billion a year).

    Probably the best bang for buck mission at present would be to mine asteroids, either in-situ or diverting them to Earth orbit. They have a lower delta-v requirement than just about anywhere else in the system (so less fuel/thrust required). And, one metallic asteroid has an average mineral worth of about $1 trillion or more on todays market (iron/nickel/zinc mostly I think, plus gold/silver/lead/etc). The problem is mining it, refining it, and getting it to the market - a huge challenge.

  76. Bad News from LRO -- Bummer Alert! by CertifiedSpaceCadet · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately recent bad news about the radiation hazard in Space from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) has made the outlook for Space settlement very bleak right now. Every space short story I have ever written is now rubbish. Bummer!

    The problem is that there two types of radiation hazard: (1) Galactic cosmic rays (GCR), and (2) Coronal Mass Ejections (CME). The first, GCR, is 24/7 and present low-level, but penetrating. The second, CME, is 0 to 5 times a year and deadly intense, but not penetrating. Up until last year, in our stories we assumed that the CME was the biggest danger, but the LRO reversed that understanding. You could shield from CME as the incidents are rare and one meter of lunar regolith is plenty of shielding. But GCR would require 5 meters of lunar regolith for shielding and are a constant threat.

    The problem then is that space travel as normally depicted, people running around with little shielding for most of the time and then only having an occasional emergency to respond too, is impossible. The people in our hard science fiction stories now must the fact that they are paying for their adventure with substantial lost of life expectancy and likely later ill heath. Bummer!

    There are solutions to this problem but they call for very advanced technologies and concepts. This will take a lot of work. Maybe the place to start is with science fiction stories.

    --
    Tom Riley TomRiley@woodwaredesigns.com http://woodwaredesigns.com/woodware.html
  77. Destination: Near Earth Objects by CertifiedSpaceCadet · · Score: 1

    The next logical destination after the Moon is an Near Earth Object (NEO). They offer a real threat to Earth that people can appreciate (the dinosaurs did not at their peril); they are fairly easy to get to; they probably have valuable resources for future space missions; and they had something to do with the start of life on Earth.

    A believable mission would assemble in space, perhaps sling shot around the Moon, and travel for a few weeks. It would then orbit around the NEO for most of a year with space walks to the surface and then return again in a few weeks. The return ship would end with a very dramatic reentry at very high speed.

    The orbits of a NEO and Earth are nearly the same, so they move close together and then apart, typically on a yearly cycle. This means that the trip there and back would be short compared to Mars but the stay is locked in at about one year. Out out when they are closest. Come back the next time they are close again.

    Unfortunately, typical NEO's are unattractive assemblies of rocks and dust in the shape of a potato and the size of Manhattan. They also tumble slowly and are covered with fine dust that is bad for your high-tech equipment.

    The problem is making the story dramatic when enormous effort and expense will be put out to make it as boring and risk free as possible. (Apollo 13 made a great movie but a lousy Moon trip!)

    --
    Tom Riley TomRiley@woodwaredesigns.com http://woodwaredesigns.com/woodware.html
  78. Don't go for real! by Splab · · Score: 1

    Look at Dan Brown, his books are absolutely bogus and downright wrong, but they sell. People don't want to read "real" they want stuff that works in the plot.

    Don't use page after page about how this thingie magic spins and creates normal gravity - it's there, it's done; flip of a switch and gravity is normal, smack into a small roid and your hero needs to go space walking to fix .

    Also remember to have your usual team, one black guy to sacrifice, one hotty for the hero to score, a scientist, someone plotting to make everything blow up (a nice twist would be a mormon or scientologist?) and one hero.

    Head for Europe (moon, not continent) and find underwater starbases or whatnot. Look at what Charles Stross has been doing with the Atrocity Archives series, really good books, based on earth with "believable" twists.

    Oh, I'll take 25% for the ideas if you use em.

  79. 1st rule of writing: write what you know by scorp1us · · Score: 1

    You really are off to a horrible start. If you don't know enough about the mechanics already, you're just going to end up pulling a star trek and it won't be as believable as you want. "Pulling a star trek" is a modern version of dues ex machina, where you invent some technobabble to cause or escape the crappy lot device you constructed.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  80. A few books. by BarryHaworth · · Score: 1
    A few books which might be useful:

    To Rise from Earth is an account of the basic physics of space travel. A few years since I've read it, but as I recall it goes over the basic concepts and destinations quite well.

    Robert Zubrin has written two books which would be worth a look - The Case for Mars about a practical scheme for mounting expeditions to Mars in the near term, and Entering Space which takes a wider view within our solar system. Finally, John S Lewis' Mining the Sky gives the rationale and practicalities for mining asteroids - how you might do it, and what sorts of materials you would profitably extract from them.

    There are any number of other books out there, but these should get you started. Good luck!

    --
    I am a Statistician. One false move and you are a Statistic
  81. Mammalian reproduction in microgravity by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    Your information is a bit old. Reproduction of rats in micro-gravity and zero-gravity has been being studied the last few years: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=rats+reproduction+microgravity

    They tried everything from taking pregnant rats into space to observe the effects on fetal development to fertilizing embryos in microgravity to the effects of microgravity on the reproductive organs of rats.

    1. Re:Mammalian reproduction in microgravity by Teancum · · Score: 1

      That was not a long-term study, but rather something done on the Space Shuttle (before the ISS was built.... in the SpaceLab module sometimes put in the cargo bay) and was really only a two week study that didn't prove a thing.

      Nice try there, and perhaps some inference can be pulled from that study (something I was well aware of BTW and perhaps should have mentioned you need not respond with). It was a pregnant rat which gave birth in space to what appeared to be some healthy young ones even after the Shuttle landed, and there were some "longitudinal studies" done on those baby rats that suggest there is nothing to worry about in terms of gestational development.

      Still, the actual knowledge of what goes on in terms of actually conceiving babies in space is non-existent, and it shouldn't be a problem to at least try and find out what is going on.

  82. you mean like 2001: A space odessey? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Long trip, hibernation, mysterious monolith, what appears to be failure of AE-35 earth tracker, but is actually onboard computer psychosis.

  83. Some thoughts by stevelinton · · Score: 1

    Basic question is what you mean by "colony". My personal guess is that what you will get are initially expeditions where a few humans visit, do research, leave instruments and go home. After that you get "mining camps" -- long-lived outposts where humans are based for a few years to do jobs that can't be done by robots managed from Earth. The ISS is a very minimal example of this in LEO. If the work is producing sufficient return (in science or good or whatever) then these camps gradually expand as it becomes convenient to base people there for longer and to make them less dependent on services from Earth. Eventually you get something which actually can survive on its own and trade with Earth on a more equal basis.

    The moon is surely the first target for expeditions, followed by near-Earth asteroids, then the moons of Mars, then Mars itself, then maybe more distant asteroids.
    Which, if any, of these ever progress to the "mining camp" stage depends on what is discovered. We might want to mine the moon for He3 or for mass for orbital construction, but it's fairly easy to teleoperate machinery on the moon from here.

    Asteroids might be targets for actual mining, aiming to shop back metals carbon and (maybe) volatiles to Earth orbit, or even eventually to Earth. The problem is that they are very spread out. There's no obvious place to have a colony or camp which is more convenient for very many asteroids than Earth is.

    Mars might be a source of volatiles (ice) for Earth orbit, or a research target -- for example if life, or clear evidence of complex past life was found.

    Everywhere else is really too far away and/or too hostile to be a near future target.

  84. READ! by multimediavt · · Score: 1

    The one thing that young, or new writers have a hard time understanding is how much *READING* is an integral part of good writing. Sure researching the plausibility of your invented tech in a sci-fi piece is something that great sci-fi writers like Arthur C. Clarke, Ray Bradbury and others all did, but there is also a lot of reading and research that needs to be done on how to handle the more compelling aspects of your story need to come together. Sure, the tech plays a part, but you're not writing a tech manual. You're writing a story about PEOPLE and the tech is either a setting or a character (or both) a la the ship Serenity in Firefly. Good fiction writing in general deals with human topics, social issues and visions of the past, present or future. Writing is not a visual media, so the imagination can often fill in tech blanks, but if the human interest story is not there as the main scaffold, you're writing will not be that successful.

    1. Re:READ! by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Case in point, Star Trek. The tech (in 1966) was so nonsensical and outlandish that it turned a lot of people off, until the show started getting critical acclaim and word of mouth praise for its handling of more contemporary issues of the time like civil rights and the Cold War.

    2. Re:READ! by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      Asimov and Heinlein went to laborious detail on the physics of travel. Early Heinlein very much so.

  85. Anthony Zappero by CockMonster · · Score: 1

    Anthony Zappero has some really interesting things to say about space travel http://www.neofuel.com/inhabit/inhabit.pdf It's a bit scattered but I found it really, really interesting.

  86. Research by Katchu · · Score: 1

    Professional writers spend a lot of time doing research. Lots of research. This means reading material about the subject matter. Use Google and see what's online, but also read a few dozen books from a good library. That being said, you don't need a lot of technical detail; you're going to write a story. That involves realistic characters, dialog, and relationships. This is what will make you succeed (or fail) as a writer.

    --
    Keep Doing Good.
  87. Stories about self-replicating space habitats by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    based on asteroidal ore (1920s): http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Bernal/world/
    "Imagine a spherical shell ten miles or so in diameter, made of the lightest materials and mostly hollow; for this purpose the new molecular materials would be admirably suited. Owing to the absence of gravitation its construction would not be an engineering feat of any magnitude. The source of the material out of which this would be made would only be in small part drawn from the earth; for the great bulk of the structure would be made out of the substance of one or more smaller asteroids, rings of Saturn or other planetary detritus. The initial stages of construction are the most difficult to imagine. They will probably consist of attaching an asteroid of some hundred yards or so diameter to a space vessel, hollowing it out and using the removed material to build the first protective shell. Afterwards the shell could be re-worked, bit by bit, using elaborated and more suitable substances and at the same time increasing its size by diminishing its thickness. The globe would fulfil all the functions by which our earth manages to support life. In default of a gravitational field it has, perforce, to keep its atmosphere and the greater portion of its life inside; but as all its nourishment comes in the form of energy through its outer surface it would be forced to resemble on the whole an enormously complicated single-celled plant. ..."

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  88. Bring a towel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bring a towel.

  89. Phobos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mars fan boys will cry, but you should consider sending your mission to Phobos to establish a sheltered (from gamma radiation) base there. Prior to that mission, a lot of equipment and robots would be landed on the surface, along the lines of "Mars Direct" but with only sample return ever needing to leave the surface - not trying to launch a manned rocket (consider how much is required to make that safe to attempt here on Earth.

    When Phobos base is established, the explorers would command a large crew of semi-autonomous robotic explorers. They could also use telepresence - giving your explorers a better experience of 'being there' than they'd get actually being on Mars surface and limited to staying inside a base or rover 95% of the time and in a highly constraining pressure suit and helmet during their small amount of time "outside". Safer, more efficient, more productive, and your explorers can effectively teleport around the surface of Mars, but until they get a satellite network up they'll have windows of access (helps constrain and shape your story, creates some tension). Even after getting the SatNet up, the lag for access to the other side of Mars will make telepresence poor. Given current robotics plus maybe 10 years more progress, a robot and telepresence rig should be quite convincing. (In zero G, full body tracking and haptic feedback rig can more easily and convincingly simulate "being there" without a lot of Rube Goldberg mechanical stuff.)

    1. Re:Phobos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As to what they will do along the way - most of the crew will be scientists. They can already be working with the robots on the surface - getting more productive as they get closer to Mars and lag decreases. A lot of what they do on the trip out (and back) will be working with simulators - again using their full-body simulation rigs to let them feel they are in the environments the robots record for them.

  90. when the jar cap gets stuck by mangu · · Score: 1

    The 1990s called. They want their VCR clocks back.

  91. Try this for starters by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    A big religious cult/group gathers enough money from followers to build a nuclear fueled multi-generational colony ship to a nearby star.

    The Mormons, for example, were told to sell all their possessions, ride a ship to America, and march across the USA to hunt for a good place to settle down away from pesky detractors.

  92. Write about the space Ark mankind creates. by master_p · · Score: 1

    At the year 2099, after the 3rd world war, and a huge asteroid impact, mankind decides to visit the most promising solar system bodies for sustaining life, in order to evaluate them for colonization.

    Make a big space station/ship, complete with rotating sections for artificial gravity, that uses nuclear propulsion to accelerate to relativistic speeds.

    The ship would have lots of people, from every kind of profession. It would also have science labs, entertainment and sport centers, even prostitutes (do not forget the sex part, if you want to make it as realistic as possible).

    Provide the ship with landers, so as that people can land on smaller objects.

    Also let the ship generate an electromagnetic field around it, just like Earth, so as that it is protected from radiation.

    Use slingshots around planets (or even the Sun) to propel the ship (together with nuclear propulsion), in order to be even more realistic.

    Assemble the ship in orbit (unlike a recent scifi movie).

    Describe, to your best ability, the air and water systems of the ship, as well as anything else required to have a functioning living space. For example, deal with the problem of garbage.

    The spaceship would have enough supplies for a 5 year mission, and it will finally return to Earth. Forget the stuff about the one way missions, it is bullshit. Mankind needs hope, not darkness or desperation.

    Describe the true emptiness of space and use real distances and planetary positions.

  93. L5 colony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Colony would be at L5 of the earth moon system, and would be made economically viable through processing of lunar, and asteroidial resources, and manufacture made possible by them. Oxygen, silicon, aluminum, and titanium from the moon, via moon based mass drivers (linear induction motors, superconducting "buckets" accelerating the payload, releasing payload, decelerating, and then going back to the start of the mass driver. Heavy elements from nickle iron asteroids, carbon, and hydrogen from carbonaceous asteroids, and comets. In this way, deep planetary gravity wells are completely avoided. Imports from earth would be high value to mass things like electronic components, and bearings.

  94. a few years ahead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You wrote:
    probably set a few years ahead, just enough for the launching of the first colony in the solar system

    I think a good analogy is Antarctica as it is now. It is a cool place to set up a research station, and maybe a cool place to visit. But I would not want to live there.

    But Antarctica is only very cold. The Moon has no atmosphere and Mars has very little. Both have very limited gravity, which could give all sorts of problems for a stay longer than a few years. Though the Moon is a few days away, Mars is half a year journey, or at least a month is you have a higher energy engine. Radiation is a problem. Lunar soil stinks of sulfur, and I would wager to guess that Mars probably stinks too.

    It would not be a colony of people on their last dime wanting to start anew on a new world, cause any habitat to support humans would be expensive.

    I don't think we will see a colony for the next hundred years or more. I would go for a research outpost, though.

    That aside, it was pointed out that having realistic orbital mechanics would add a sense of realism. Two ideas for sending a large expedition to Mars would be either:

    1) Have a large, initially unmanned space habitat vehicle slowly spiral up using solar electric ion propulsion to a high energy elliptical orbit (where it would have large doses of Van Allen Belt radiation if people were along for the year long ride). The habitat would have all the supplies and place to live for the voyage, the landing craft and other equipment for the expedition. Once it has almost enough energy to break out of orbit, a very minimal, but very fast, crew taxi would deliver the explorers to the habitat. It can be fast in that it only has the crew and capsule and supplies for a couple of hours as it rendezvous with the habitat as it passes close to the earth, on its final leg before leaving orbit.

    2) Have a reusable habitat (or just a landing vehicle for the Moon) parked at L1 or L2 for rendezvous with an unmanned refueling/resupply craft, and later crew capsule. Initially the habitat and supply ships may need to spiral up like in idea 1, or would be sent on multiple heavy lift rocket flights (the smaller the rocket the more flights, the more complexity to the mission).

    Once it gets to Mars it can do either an Aerocapture (where it goes through the atmosphere to slow down into orbit) or an Aeroentry (where it slows down for an immediate landing). Both would probably take advantage of inflatable conical balutes (See NASA's HIAD -- Hypersonic Inflatable Aerodynamic Decelerator) to protect the spacecraft and increase the air resistance.There has also been a lot of look at skip entry, where the spacecraft bounces off the atmosphere intentionally before entering for a landing. The latter is just what Apollo Astronauts worried might happen if they entered the atmosphere incorrectly--here modern engineers use it to their advantage.

    I could go on an on but I do not wish to write your book for you.

  95. www.nasaspaceflight.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    go do some reading on the www.nasaspaceflight.com web site. LOTS of info to help you out..