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Tesla Motors Announces Prices For Their Upcoming Models
Shivetya writes with a list of prices for upcoming models from Tesla, noting that "they aren't cheap and the prices are listed assuming the $7500 tax credit. A 160-mile range S will set you back $49,900, the 230-mile is at $59,000, and the 300-mile range S will cost $69,000. Battery sizes are 40, 60, and 85kwh respectively. For your money these cars also include a very large seventeen-inch touchscreen. Is this the electric car you've been waiting for or another rich person's toy?"
Can't it be both? Because right now it's both.
They've claimed all along (or close to it anyway) that the plan was to sell the rest of us a car on the third iteration.
The one I'm really interested in is the cheaper sports car, which could be the fourth or fifth model. More range, less performance, enough room for groceries but not for golf clubs.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Good username/post combo.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Until they figure out solar, natural gas is the next big thing. Easy to retrofit, no batteries. Cheap (at least in the US).
Next big thing??? Its been a standard thing in many other places in the world for a long long time. Its probably only slow to take off in the US because (compared globally) the US has very cheap gas prices.
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Until they figure out solar, natural gas is the next big thing. Easy to retrofit, no batteries. Cheap (at least in the US).
Yeah, if you completely forget about supply and demand. How cheap do you think that natural gas is going to be once it's a common fuel for cars? Hint: look at the price and prevalence of diesel from 1980 to now.
We need the rich guys to buy it first, so the rest of us can pick them up when they get mass market - if there is a mass market (which personally I think there is)
The first "motorized carriages" were quite definitely impractical toys for the rich. See also the first airplanes and pretty much "the first anythings"
It accelerates faster than a Porsche 911 and has other luxury features. Ergo it's a rich person's toy. That said, given the performance, the prices seem competitive, even ignoring fuel costs. From a cursory glance at the Porsche website, a new 911 costs around $80k in the U.S. with an estimated range of ~300 miles. Had to use fuel economy estimates for previous years since 2011 is an entirely new platform and the corporate site doesn't publish fuel economy numbers. My issue with the all-electrics is battery replacement. Figure you're plunking down at least $10k at the end of that 8 year warranty to replace your battery.
Battery swapping is going to seem like a laughably silly idea 10 years from now. I think it's silly right now myself.
EV makers should stop trying to appease the "range anxiety" crowd, they can't be appeased. Have battery swap stations at every corner and cars with a 500 mile range and they'll be "anxious" about getting a dud battery and breaking down in the desert they drive through every morning.
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles. There are only two reasons to have a problem with that range: You actually drive further than that regularly, in which case you have no business driving an electric car right now anyways, or you've got some kind of "range survivalist syndrome" where you're always worried about "what if I run out of juice and then ZOMBIES ATTACK!?"
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I'll give you a call as soon as I have a day when I actually need the towing capacity of diesel truck on a daily basis.
(ever wonder if maybe you weren't the target market?)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
i was waiting for picked me up this morning, didnt need to find parking, and costs less than a cup of coffee. the only people still masturbating furiously over Tesla motors and electric cars in general are people who dont understand that the automobile as a means of personal conveyance is unsustainable no matter what you fuel you choose. If you dont believe me, try getting from long beach to downtown LA at 7:30 am.
Good people go to bed earlier.
How large is a normal 17-inch touchscreen?
About 17 inches.
The "very large seventeen-inch touchscreen" referenced in the summary is a metric touchscreen. Typical noob mistake.
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As far as I'm concerned, the Tesla S is a revolutionary vehicle that will set the bar for future electric vehicles. And I agree with Elon Musk that all future cars will be electrically powered. Tesla is proving that electric vehicles can 1) be practical, 2) have extended range, 3) not be exorbitantly expensive, 4) be friggin' sexy!! This is only their second car and they are already hitting a home run. Imagine what the fourth and fifth generation of vehicles will be able to do... I'm surprised more /.ers aren't impressed with this car... it's a geek's dream!
I wonder when electric vehicles will use standardized batteries which can be replaced quickly.
When that happens, it might be possible to pull into a "Battery Exchange" station where your dead/low batteries can be quickly pulled and replaced with freshly conditioned and charged batteries in under two minutes. Your dead/low batteries then go onto the conditioner/charger to be used by the next shmo who pulls in.
Along the same line as propane tank exchanges. You buy the tank once, then keep trading it in for full tanks - only paying for the propane and the exchange fee.
Until battery electric vehicles become popular, stations like this won't be ubiquitous in the same way gas stations are.
"Lame" - Galaxar
When the electric toy soda can vehicles can tow the load of my diesel truck with a range of 350 miles, you give me a shout-out.
That will come when hybrids mature - there's a reason most locomotives are hybrids these days (and rail frieght takes a tiny fraction of the energy-per-ton of road frieght).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The prices are NOT $49,900, $59,000 and $69,000. That is the price after you redeem your government coupon (Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D)). You will still have to front the full price and then wait until your next tax filing in order to claim your maximum tax credit of $7500. The credit itself will be phased out after 200,000 qualifying vehicles have been sold.
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Let's not forget the significant negative environmental impacts of drilling for gas.
It may burn clean, but it sure as hell doesn't extract clean. Take a trip to Dimock, PA for a good example.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
From memory (which is based on older info and might not be 100%):
1. There is an option for a 5-minute battery swap-out at properly equipped service stations and there's a quick charge option where proper charging equipment can bring the battery from 0% to 80% in 45 minutes. You would likely be more interested in the 5 minute swap in terms of a gas station replacement for long trips, but the vast majority of refills would be resolved with nightly charging, giving the advantage to this car as you can't fill your gasoline vehicle with fuel every night at home - you have to make a special stop once or twice a week and pay out a bunch of money. How often does anyone take a >160/300 mile trip? If it's all the time for you, this isn't the car for you until there are enough service stations doing the 5-minute swap to make it convenient. If you're like the 99% of people in the US and Europe who drive far less than that 99% of the time, this works just fine.
2. Expected lifespan (defined as >80% of brand-new capacity) is 8 - 10 years.
3. The batteries cost $10,000 to replace today. Their cost in 8 - 10 years is extremely difficult to anticipate, but assuming that the materials involved aren't massively more expensive, the technology will certainly be significantly cheaper and should push those prices down.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Actually, you're probably the one forgetting about supply and demand. There's ridiculous supply available. You're only talking demand.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. The cost of replacing the batteries (no doubt with much better batteries) a few years down the road could easily be offset by much cheaper ongoing operating costs.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Perhaps the most important question is what is the all-in cost per mile of operation and how many miles to I need to operate it annually for it to make financial sense. For a SWAG: Assume $0.10/kWh, 3 miles/kWh, or $0.033/mile for electricity, vs. 25 MPG, $3.50/gallon, $0.14/mile for gasoline. Effective difference of $0.10/mile. At a US average annual distance of 12,000 miles, the fuel cost difference is $1,200. Electric vehicle advocates also suggest that you save another $200/yr on oil changes, oil filters, etc.. If you assume an average ownership period of 10 years, that's a $14,000 savings in OpEx. Of course, currently the car is more expensive, you're limited (slightly) in range, and there are (currently) limited number of places where you can fast-charge (15-20 minutes full charge).
Since when do Slashdot readers bet against technology?
I can't help but think that the folks over at Ural motorcycles/IMZ America have a better sense of the market right now. They've just introduced a new "Model T" at the low end of their range, bringing the basic Ural 2-wheel drive sidecar motorcycle to the US for under $10k. Irbit Motorworks (IMZ) is Russian, the design is sourced from midcentury BMW, and the last decade+ of updates (e.g. new cylinders/heads with modern compression, better mpg/reliability, etc) have been pushed by enthusiasts in the US and EU. It intersect with the Tesla in the "sheer fun to drive" category, and my guess is that with an economy just holding on, there's gonna be a lot more of these on the road.
In another post I muttered about T-Mo staying on as the value carrier in the US: "T-Mo isn't making money hand over fist, but they're doing _ok_, and that's good. In these times, in this economy, I want to give my money to an org that's doing _ok_: neither going out of business, nor robbing me. You hear that, T-Mo? "Ok" and "staying in business without f__king your customers" is the new black. So keep on keeping on."
Same goes for Ural/IMZ versus Tesla. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Tesla business model is too "lean on the rich to get thru hard times" which all too often degenerates to "ran outta high-end customers, so try to screw the next class for as much as we need to stay afloat..." You wanna impress me Tesla? Go buy the tooling for the Corbin Merlin or Sparrow and start turning out fun electric 1-seaters for $15k -- price-competitive with the Fiat 500, Smartcar, and Scion iQ.
I think not...(*poof*)
I'd much rather my tax dollars went to electric vehicle manufacturers trying to get off the ground and make waves in the system than to companies that have been recording record profits the past few years in a row (looking at you Exxon...).
Wouldn't that be an argument for a AWD vehicle, and not one of these anyway?
It's not a life-threatening problem unless you live in the remote hills of North Dakota or something. 300 miles is like a 30MPG car with a 10-gallon tank. For the person who suddenly needed to exceed their car's capabilities and can't wait for a half-hour quick charge at the nearest station, there's always the option of calling a tow truck. Not the end of the world.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
As the owner of an electric Nissan LEAF, a hybrid Toyota Prius, and a CNG Honda Civic GX I can tell you the car I'm getting rid of right now. Hint: it's the one with the limited range, limited fueling infrastructure, fuel storage method expiration date of 15 years or less, no trunk space, and limited amenities.
If you guess the LEAF or Prius you'd be wrong. We've enjoyed our Civic GX, and it's proven to be a reliable car, but cost and convenience wise it can't hold a candle to the LEAF now that we've taken delivery and been driving the car for 6 months.
Plugging in the LEAF is significantly more convenient than driving to the nearest CNG station (6 miles away) and hoping their pump is operating. If it's not then it's a 12 mile drive to the next CNG station which usually has a queue of buses, garbage trucks, or taxis lined up meaning a 30 minute wait. The CNG cylinder has a legally mandated expiration date of 15 years and would cost more than the value of the rest of the car to replace when that time is up. Maintenance for the car is very costly, requiring special CNG fuel line filters changed every other service (about $800 when we go to the Civic GX friendly dealer in the desert, closer to $1500 at the regular Honda dealer in town) as well as cylinder inspections and certifications, and all that doesn't even get you out of having to do a smog check in California.
The LEAF by comparison plugs in anywhere from public quick-charge DC stations (20-30 minute charge) to home 240V and 120V connections. It also requires no regular maintenance beyond topping up windshield washer fluid and having the tires rotated. The energy cost is about half of what we pay at the CNG station, and a quarter of what we pay to fuel the Prius. The trunk is huge and the back seats fold down for even more room. The car is fast, quiet, and comfortable and makes the Prius feel quaint and old fashioned. The Civic GX feels like a horse drawn buggy by comparison - it's sluggish (the CNG version has about 30HP less than the petrol version of the Civic and it has a heavy CNG cylinder to lug around), has no trunk space, and has all the noise and shaking you get with ICE cars.
But hey, if you're interested in a nice clean Civic GX with a little over 100,000 miles then ignore all that, I've got a car to sell you!
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles.
Yeah, and? Our Honda Civic costs less than half as much, goes at least 50% further, and takes a fraction of the time to 'recharge'. We can just manage to drive to my girlfriend's parents house on one tank, whereas if we bought this 'luxury sedan' we'd have to stop for a few hours half-way to charge up... except there's nowhere to do so.
Why would you want a 'luxury sedan' that can't make long journeys, or requires you to hang around waiting for hours on the few routes where you can?
Yeah, but when you go driving in a snow storm, make sure you are prepared. I'm from Canada, so this is common sense to us. Whenever driving in the winter you should have a survival kit with you, complete with blankets, food, shovel, first aid kit, chemical heat packs, matches, emergency candles, etc.... Even if you don't run out of gas or electricity, what happens if you go off the road, or a belt on your car breaks?
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
There is also an option for an abnormal 17" screen. It's pear-shaped.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
What are you comparing it to? A Chevy Cruze, a Ford Focus?
Different class of vehicle. This is a luxury vehicle with leather interior and a 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. It competes with BMW, Mercedes and Porshe.
How much does a full featured BMW or Porsche go for? $50,000 no longer looks over priced for it's class.
In fact, it might look pretty damn cheap. I just looked at the base pricing MSRP for a Porsche Panerama (or whatever it was, there 4 door sedan). The low end model does 0-60 in 6 seconds. Higher end models go faster.
Suggested MSRP was $75,000.
Base price of 328 BMW, lower end car was around $37,000. Mind you, that's base low end model. And no where near a 4.4, 0-60 car. The S is definitely not that, especially with a 17" flat panel.
So for the class and caliber of car. The Tesla S is actually a very economical deal. You have a sports car / sedan / EV all for less than most performance luxury models.
Don't make me link the study showing that even an electric car running on a dirty coal plant is much cleaner than a gasoline car AGAIN. And don't make me point out that making cars energy-source-agnostic makes it possible to make whole regions cleaner just by changing the power source AGAIN.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I think its easier to make it almost a "luxury" item and drive it down market than the opposite. Harder to make a super cheap low end electric car and then convince upper-middle class and beyond to buy in to the "cheap electric cars". Not to mention the high relative cost to produce electric vehicles initially can be shouldered mostly by higher income individuals.
Never fear, there's word of a $30K version being worked on by Tesla. Something like that would blow the Volt away. Tesla also works with Toyota and Benz on some of their electric vehicles.
Venn diagram of people who eat at Cracker Barrel and people who want to drive electric cars: O O
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Don't forget that most electricity comes from fossil fuels so the car neither green nor sustainable nor renewable.
Forgive me if I'm being a bit presumptuous about your own beliefs, however, I feel the need to rant a bit here. I am simply sick and tired of people seemingly determined to attack or attempt to discredit anything related to green policies. I find it ridiculous that so many climate skeptics want to turn it into an 'us versus them' game where you have to tear down everything the other side supports.
I'm a climate skeptic myself. I'm skeptical that man has as much to do with climate change as many seem to believe they do. I'm skeptical of their models for the future. I'm skeptical that climate change will be as damaging to the world as they predict if it does continue unabated. I'm skeptical that policies such as carbon taxes will have a significant impact on preventing climate change even if all their models are right, much less enough to outweigh their economic cost.
Even with all of that said, you seem to be putting down the buying of electric cards. Okay you could go after the tax credit, but that's not the fault of the person buying it. No matter what happens to be true regarding climate change, it's hard to argue against reduced pollution and less dependence on foreign oil. If the market can support electric cars, then that's great!
Just because you're a skeptic, and against government intervention on the climate change front, doesn't mean you can't support a green personal lifestyle and try to promote such behavior in others. If anything, you should be more inclined to do so. That way, at least you'll have something to assuage your guilt over being obstructionist with climate policies in the case it turns out you were dead wrong.
As they push into the realm of 300 m.p.c.
Miles per Coulomb?
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
There are a few and they all deal with plug-in hybrids, and it turns out it's not so simple for EVs. Non-plug-in hybrids are cleaner on 100% dirty coal but PHEVs and pure EVs aren't because it turns out 100% dirty coal is actually worse than gasoline:
http://web.mit.edu/mitei/docs/.../electrification-transportation-system.pdf
This article calculates the efficiency of a pure EV running on 100% dirty coal and confirms that it's worse than gasoline, using a real-world worst-case scenario (Wyoming) an EV's emissions are roughly on par with a 25MPG gasoline car:
http://www.carbonlighthouse.com/2011/08/the-coal-powered-electric-car-part-iii/
So an EV running on 100% dirty coal or close to it is worse than a gasoline car, but there are few places where you could find such filthy sources of energy so in practice it should still be much cleaner.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
"Fortunately, I had a Geo Metro" The first, and last, time that someone has said that...
I really need to find my EV spreadsheet, or rebuild it.
$50k Tesla car vs $25k Chevy Impala(30 mpg). At $4/gallon, and assuming maintenance savings are offset by you actually having to pay for your electricity, it's 6.25k gallons to make up the difference, or 188k miles.
If you assume you're NOT looking at the base model, and instead a $35k car as the 'equivalent, it's $15k/3,750 gallons/113k miles.
Update: Spreadsheet partially done.
Assumptions: $50k Model S vs $25kChevy Impala. 4 miles per kwh, 30 mpg, Insurance is a wash, an extra $320 of maintenance on the gas vehicle, 15k miles driven for each, $.10 electricity, $4 gasoline. 5% interest rate/cost of capital and a 10 year lifespan.
Total Annual Cost: $7,850.23 for the Tesla, $6,557.61 of the Impala. Advantage Impala by $1,292.61
Not quite right - that's for a highway driver using the cheapest available. Upping the cost to $31k for a nicer package, and figuring on a 100% city driver(18mpg), that flips it - the Impala's cost rises to $8,667.98, potentially saving you $817.75/year.
Drive a LOT of city miles, like a taxi driver, if the vehicle has the endurance, use it. Otherwise you might as well plug in your own assumptions.
I don't read AC A human right
But battery swaps would work great for a taxi -- you're usually close to base and have competent drivers and even competent staff at the base.