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The Curious Case of Increasing Misspelling Rates On Wikipedia

An anonymous reader writes "The crowd-sourced nature of Wikipedia might imply that its content should be more 'correct' than other sources. As the saying goes, the more eyes the better. One particular student who was curious about this conducted rudimentary text mining on a sampling of the Wikipedia corpus to discover how misspelling rates on Wikipedia change through time. The results appear to indicate an increasing rate of misspellings through time. The author proposes that this consistent increase is the result of Wikipedia contributors using more complex language, which the test is unable to cope with. How do the results of this test compare to your own observations on the detail accuracy of massively crowd-sourced applications?"

285 comments

  1. Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every web browser as auto spell-check capabilities these days. Most of them correct as you type.
    So why should there be any misspellings on something that is managed strictly from a web interface?

    Is it part of the arrogance of those electing themselves to write and editing articles on wiki that they refuse to use a spell checker, or
    is it that the words are simply unknown to the normal spell-check dictionaries?

    I find occasional misspellings in mainstream news articles as well (and I am by no means a natural born speller).

    But most maddening to me is the "they're their there" errors, and similar wrong word usage.
    Spell checkers offer little help in catching these, but a 6th grade education usually suffices.

    Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by vawarayer · · Score: 3, Funny

      wat u talkin aboutte?

    2. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But most maddening to me is the "they're their there" errors, and similar wrong word usage.
      Spell checkers offer little help in catching these, but a 6th grade education usually suffices.

      Memo to all Brits & US Americans: English isn't you're language anymore, its now everybodies (second, third, eleventhirtieth) language. Get over it.

    3. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by hairyfish · · Score: 4, Funny

      your definately fighting a loosing battle their.

    4. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it's our language when it comes to international communication. We don't own the varieties spoken in Australia, Guyana, India and whatever other regions use English, but if you want to be understood you really ought to be sticking fairly close to either British English or American English.

    5. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      They're They're your probably just making a mountain out of a mole hill, but it's a mute point.

      But really. I'm going to side with complex language there are numerous technical words that aren't in any of my dictionaries. Especially when you get into latin based names and medical terms.

    6. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by wjcofkc · · Score: 2

      Every web browser as auto spell-check capabilities these days. Most of them correct as you type. So why should there be any misspellings on something that is managed strictly from a web interface?

      Is it part of the arrogance of those electing themselves to write and editing articles on wiki that they refuse to use a spell checker, or is it that the words are simply unknown to the normal spell-check dictionaries?

      I find occasional misspellings in mainstream news articles as well (and I am by no means a natural born speller).

      But most maddening to me is the "they're their there" errors, and similar wrong word usage. Spell checkers offer little help in catching these, but a 6th grade education usually suffices.

      Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

      HAI! U R A Cleaver 1! BAI!

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    7. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by __Paul__ · · Score: 2

      fwiw, written Australian English really isn't any different to British English.

      --
      worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
    8. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the Labor party for some reason.

    9. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That one particularly annoys me. It's MOOT dammit. As in Ent-Moot, if you will :)

    10. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had me agreeing with you right up your last sentence. Please tell me you're being ironic:

      Waist != waste
      won't and can't have apostrophes
      write != right

    11. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      I wish the Canadians would make their mind up. Either American or British English - but not a screwy mix of the two. And as for date formats, don't get me started!

    12. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

      But written Australian English is different from North American English.

      In N.A. things are similar TO each other or they are different FROM each other.

      We would no more say Different TO than we would say Similar FROM. Just seems wrong to our ears.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    13. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean MOOT point, right?

    14. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 2

      smilie = kidding.

      Whoosh = you.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    15. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wish the Canadians would make their mind up. Either American or British English

      ...or French.

    16. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 1

      Whoosh!

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    17. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by JustOK · · Score: 2

      Tabernac, eh? Get me a double double and tell me all about it. I'm sure we can get the Canadians to apologize for that.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    18. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

      That made my head explode.

    19. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Like the one around a castle, right?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    20. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Maybe regional differences are being reported as spelling errors. Desktop systems at my work use the French dictionary by default. Not much use to me.

    21. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by jd · · Score: 1

      The problem is that spell-checkers aren't grammar-checkers. There hasn't been a decent grammar checker since the days of Grammatik. The ones out there now are, frankly, pathetic.

      --
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    22. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by S.O.B. · · Score: 3, Funny

      You missed:

      Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    23. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Every web browser as auto spell-check

      While a machine can check that the words are in the dictionary, a human still needs to make sure they are the right words. That is until Google perfect that thing they've been working on secretly in the basement...

    24. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      "Moot" and "moat" aren't even homophones, damnit!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    25. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      Every web browser as auto spell-check capabilities these days. So why should there be any misspellings on something that is managed strictly from a web interface?

      Talent?

      --
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    26. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

      Every web browser as auto spell-check capabilities these days. Most of them correct as you type.

      Auto-correction based on your language pack or your failure to completely comprehend the English language. You are American so you are excused.

      Therefore I rest my case!

      So why should there be any misspellings on something that is managed strictly from a web interface?

      Is it part of the arrogance of those electing themselves to write and editing articles on wiki that they refuse to use a spell checker, or
      is it that the words are simply unknown to the normal spell-check dictionaries?

      I find occasional misspellings in mainstream news articles as well (and I am by no means a natural born speller).

      But most maddening to me is the "they're their there" errors, and similar wrong word usage.
      Spell checkers offer little help in catching these, but a 6th grade education usually suffices.

      Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

      --
      All cows eat grass!
    27. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      Is it part of the arrogance of those electing themselves to write and editing articles on wiki that they refuse to use a spell checker, or is it that the words are simply unknown to the normal spell-check dictionaries?

      Maybe it's that aggressive as-you-type spell checkers seem to introduce more errors than they catch. Seriously. I've never seen one that doesn't try to replace rare but valid words with more common words that look vaguely similar (often just similar enough to be missed in proofreading) but have completely unrelated meanings. In general, as-you-type "correction" is an insult to anyone writing above a third-grade level.

      --
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    28. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2

      No, it's because spellcheckers are often WRONG.
      They don't like foreign words, they don't like unusual words, they don't like domain-specific words; they don't like any words they haven't been programmed for.

      Lately, when I write, I have to fight the spell-correction to make things properly correct more than it corrects me.

    29. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      It's a political statement. Omitting the u in labour is intended to show that they are just like the US versons of such groups. They represent labor (working hard), but they don't include "u".

    30. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Before that, I think the problem is that writing an article is easy/fun. Proofreading an article is boring/tedious. The idea of the crowd sourcing is that the crowd can correct the errors. But this only works if people are willing to help correct the errors. And people are notorious for not doing hard tedious work for nothing. So as Wikipedia grows from people doing the fun stuff, so do the errors. Too bad there isn't a big enough carrot to hold out in front of the people editing.

      --
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    31. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why should there be any misspellings on something that is managed strictly from a web interface?

      I haven’t used Internet Explorer for a while but I remember it not having spell checking on textboxes. Maybe this is the source of a lot of spelling mistakes?

      But most maddening to me is the "they're their there" errors, and similar wrong word usage. Spell checkers offer little help in catching these, but a 6th grade education usually suffices.

      I have found that Microsoft Word’s grammar checker is quite adept at catching these types of mistakes. I wonder why we have so many spell checkers but no grammar checkers. Is this due to patent issues or that checking grammar is difficult? I wouldn’t think so because checking grammar of lower level languages is a very mature field in computer science. I would love to see those green wiggles every time someone messes up their theirs with theres.

    32. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Firefox's dictionary needs some work. It has an addiction to adding hyphens to common non-hyphenated words, and has some serious difficulties with pluralized nouns.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    33. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Its not that big of a deal.

    34. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Canadians don't use American English. If you're using American English, as a Canadian, it's because you're retarded, as are your parents and teachers.

    35. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except for bewdy mate

    36. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by http · · Score: 1

      Not that anyone else does this, but one of the first changes I make in my browser settings is deactivating automatic spell checking. Call it a holdover from the days where leaving it on meant the top rate of entering text would be about one or two characters per second.
      The performance difference is non-zero.

      --
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      3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
    37. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)

      "waste" u mean?

    38. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 1

      Whoosh, I mean.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    39. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      In general, as-you-type "correction" is an insult to anyone writing above a third-grade level.

      So.. I guess it's hear to stay then.

      here to stay, dammit.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    40. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      date formats? Is it so hard to remember smallest to biggest? day, month, year?

      As far as I can tell, we have made our mind up, we're taught british english. Just what the hell are you talking about, eh?

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    41. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      While the increased usage of words that are not in the browser dictionaries is part of it, it is not just technical words. "Travois" (the ancient sleds pulled by horses or dogs) is a valid English word that my Ubuntu Firefox spell checker flagged this morning: it wanted me to use "travis" instead. We are running into an increasing number of such inappropriate substitutions by spell checkers as the range of breadth of Wikipedia expands, especially as it covers sports, hobbies, and other informal group activities that have extensive jargons of their own.

      And then of course there is the fact that native users of English are now very much a minority. The written language of English is now completely dominated by users for which English is a second language. There are probably more exchanges on the Internet in English where none of the participants are native English speakers than there are where at least one of the participants grew up speaking English. If that is not yet true, it will be within a few years.

      The rule on places like Slashdot and other Internet forums is that so long as the text can be understood, variations in spelling and grammar are acceptable, should not be corrected, and usually should not even be mentioned. Wikipedia is under the same kinds of pressures and should be adopting a similar tolerance to the stuff that would have given my high school English teacher fits.

      English, through the Internet, is becoming the dominant world language. But it is also changing as it takes on this new role. In a few more years, it will not be recognizable to the English teachers of fifty years ago.

      --
      Will
    42. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      LMFTFY:

      Whushe!

      --
      Will
    43. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Moot" and "moat" aren't even homophones, damnit!

      "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

    44. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by fdrebin · · Score: 1

      When I see or hear something like "different to" I instantly think "non-native speaker.". That does not imply anything about intelligence (to me at least).

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    45. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your proposed acceptance of "variations in spelling" leads directly to non-native speakers being confused as they try to read, and native speakers making mistakes. It's one of the weaknesses of our non-phonetic spelling.

    46. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by The+Askylist · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't fash yourself - the British Labour party very rarely communicates in coherent English these days. I see no reason why the transportees should differ.

    47. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by fdrebin · · Score: 2
      Spelling checkers don't help with grammatical context. I see that few people don't know when to use "fewer than" vs "less than", or the difference between "insure" and "ensure". They are indeed different.
      If Joe SixPack (or for UK, "Joe Pint" (or equivalent slang)) doesn't know the difference, well, so what. When I see professional authors not knowing the difference, I am... disappointed, I guess.
      And crap, I'm an engineer, I'm not even supposed to know how to spell.

      /F

      --
      Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
    48. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by The+Askylist · · Score: 1

      Bringing in the OP's "mute" - maybe it should be "don't ask, don't tell"?

    49. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 1

      Not that anyone else does this, but one of the
      first changes I make in my browser settings is deactivating automatic spell checking. Call it a holdover from the days where leaving it on meant the top rate of entering text would be about one or two characters per second.

          The performance difference is non-zero.

      Well, true, it is non-zero, but nobody else runs an 8088 processor anymore either.

      If this still bothers you, remember that there will be great deals in the After Christmas sales from most computer vendors.
      You might be able to step up to a 486 or something.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    50. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Teancum · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have seen articles on Wikipedia that stick around for any reasonable length of time (about six months to a year being typical) usually attract grammar nazis (or people who are annoyed by bad grammar in general) that do a copy edit and try to fix the article to make it read better. Longer articles tend to attract more people than stubs, particularly if they are well linked to other articles. The subject matter doesn't seem to make a difference, and there are a few bots on Wikipedia which try to scan articles for spelling errors and other minor issues.

      The issue of British vs. American spellings has been a long resolved issue, and for the most part consistency is more the rule than anything else. Sometimes I've seen protracted edit wars over grammar usage between several editors, but even that tends to be rather harmless.

      My point here is that the proofreading does happen, it just happens on a slower time scale and is something that usually only shows up for more mature articles, mature as in more well developed articles that seem to be trying to say something. Articles that are in a constant flux of revision will be less likely to see this kind of activity, or more accurately will tend to see such efforts wasted as the article content changes. Still, if you can get an article to "B quality" status or better, the grammar and quality of the article in terms of spelling and other aspects will be reviewed by at least somebody over time.

    51. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people consider correct syntax and grammar to be the hoof-prints of a snob, and I'd have to agree with that even though I feel it unfairly directed at myself sometimes. Many people I've known who act like snobs, use it as a defense mechanism when they can't make sense of slang, misspellings, or read poor handwriting. They're the ones that insist on those things being important, because they fail at general comprehension.

      Bad spelling is only a symptom of fast and lazy communication. A person's perception of their own intelligence, especially when it's inflated, is often how they measure everybody else. Measuring intelligence in other people compulsively is a sign of insecurity. The majority of people are by definition average, not special, gifted or highly intelligent. Being foolish enough to expect the majority to meet a higher than necessary standard works against communication more than having poor spelling will.

      I'd rather there were more people contributing to Wikipedia in earnest, than critiquing other people's efforts. Plus, if Wikipedia actually develops chronic misspellings it'll reinforce the knowledge that Wikipedia is imperfect, and there's room for correction regardless of how nailed down a subject is. A single, all knowing authority shouldn't be perched atop an entry on Wikipedia, forever protecting it from change for better or worse. Wikipedia can't be perfect, it's a casual, open, and vast encyclopedia. It will gradually over time reflect the average intelligence of all people who contribute, not the few greatest ones.

    52. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Grammar checkers for formal languages like computer programming languages is trivial compared to natural language processing issues. Another problem is that often the grammar checker straight jackets you into forming sentences in a fashion that pulls feeling out of whatever it is that you are expressing.

      Yes, there might be a role for an automated grammar checker, but like spell checkers they have a narrow application of usage. They are also not nearly as easy as you are suggesting in terms of how to write them, where natural language processing is one of the major sub-branches of artificial intelligence that has some extensive research but all of the typical problems of AI in general: an initial burst of excitement as the initial steps bear fruit, but eventual frustration over the lack of progress beyond the basic tools that seem to be created in the first few years.

    53. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, homophonous mistakes are more likely to be made by native speakers than non-, since non-native speakers typically learn to read and write at the same time they learn to speak. They have a better ability to separate different written words with the same as a result.

    54. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      A good education trumps grammar and spell checkers. That's why you see mistakes even in newspapers. Way too many writers depend on their machines instead of their brains.

      Now, let's hear your excuses.

    55. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually I've found Chromium based to frankly have a VERY limited vocabulary and when it gets confused it "runs home to mama" and will suggest words that aren't even close. When that is the case i simply right click on the word and have Yahoo search for it which will of course give the correct spelling but I can see someone simply not having the time or not knowing their browser has the ability to right click search specific words and missing a few.

      Just because there is a spellcheck doesn't mean the thing is right you know. Dragon just redlined spellcheck and while a space and a hyphen are options there is also spellbinder and spellbound and under redline the first word it suggests is recliner, not exactly what i was going for. I've found the farther one gets from common words the worse that the built in spellchecks will do. Give it time, i'm sure it'll get better. And I don't know how the current IE and FF do as I've not used them in awhile but I bet they have about the same pass/fail ratio. For example dragon will redline if I put "i've" without the capital I but doesn't seem to care about "i'm" at all, curious.

      --
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    56. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Its the slang that'll throw you. I've talked to Aussies, Afrikaans and Brits and from hardest to easiest to understand was OZ, and then i'd say it would be a toss up for the other two because frankly other than a few slang words they both spoke pretty straight English.

      Of course it was pretty funny to see their reactions to my southern drawl, the Aussie thought it was "cute" and kept wanting me to say something, the Afrikaan didn't get what the big deal was and the Brit was annoyed because "Can't you talk ANY faster?". of course having a southern drawl can be a boon, my GF sells vacation packages and she sells probably twice as many to northerners, after they get done with their "Hey Joey i gotta put this on the speaker, listen to how she talks!" bit.

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    57. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Maybe the same people who wont waist there time checking they're spelling also cant be bothered to use the write word. ;-)
      Iz dat a dartkazm?

    58. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot "waist", dumblefuck.

    59. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with the Singapore English lah?

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    60. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Maybe the same people who wont waist there _thyme_ checking they're spelling also cant _bee_ bothered _two_ _ewes_ the write word. ;-)

      Their - Fixed that four ewe.

    61. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If so, then /whoosh and all that.

      It is a big deal, and you know what? So is proper usage of its / it's. Which clearly you need a refresh on.

      Its: This is POSSESSIVE, despite the lack of an apostrophe. You used this form, incorrectly.
      It's: This is a CONTRACTION, it stands in for "it is", and you needed to open with this form.

    62. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by WhatAreYouDoingHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The rule on places like Slashdot and other Internet forums is that so long as the text can be understood, variations in spelling and grammar are acceptable, should not be corrected, and usually should not even be mentioned.

      Are you new here? :)

      --
      "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
    63. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Now, let's hear your excuses."

      Its "lets here you're excusses".
      Your a moron.

    64. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by PieceOfShitAndroid · · Score: 0

      I find that British English has a larger vocabulary. Australian English is just nonsensical words with -ie attached to the ends of them.

    65. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      The most interesting case I've seen of subtle differences in prepositions within the English language was when describing what one does when embarking or disembarking. In America, it's not uncommon to say either, "He got off the bus," or, "He got off of the bus," but the latter sounds as odd to someone from the UK as, "He got on of the bus," would sound to someone in America (or so I've been told). This fact came up in one of my graduate research seminars when we were studying a paper entitled Hey, You, Get Off of My Cloud. The Chinese and Indian students, many of whom had been taught British English in school, thought the usage was incorrect, while all of the American students insisted it was acceptable. As it turned out, it really didn't matter, since the name of the paper being discussed was a reference to a Rolling Stones song, so grammar really didn't apply, but it was a fun discussion, nonetheless.

      For future reference, it is indeed considered acceptable in American English, but if you're writing for an international audience, you'd do well to avoid its use.

    66. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though writing "its" in place of "it's" is.

    67. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but that was my point. It gets done, but it isn't fun. So it gets done slower than new stuff is added. But this is entirely due to human nature. nu. So the amount of errors tends to increase if only for that reason. But look on the bright side: Once we know everything the proof reading and correcting will catch up. Waddayagonnado? I am still grateful for Wikipedia. Without it whenever we wanted to look up cougar on Google we'd only get listings of mature porn. At least we can go to Wikipedia and look for what we really want to find out (except late at night heh heh heh... know what I mean Vern?). It's nice to find info on a subject without having to wade through pages of advertising links.

      --
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    68. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Wolfling1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Variations in the use of the letter 'u' in certain words is largely irrelevant to people's understanding of the written word. Even misspellings of there, their and they're (or 'you're' and 'your') are not an issue. The human mind can easily make sense of the sentence.

      The bigger problem is the differences in short date formats. dd/mm/yyyy vs mm/dd/yyyy can easily generate significant errors in calculation. Anyone who's integrated more than one Microsoft product together in both countries will have encountered the challenge.

      Personally, I think our (AU) reverse polish date notation is ridiculous, but at least its not inside out notation (US).

      Can we just settle on yyyy/mm/dd and be done with it? Please?

    69. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      I find the slashes are one of the worst field separators for dates, as they tend to get in the way and look like "1's" with some fonts. Periods or dashes are a superior separator in my rarely humble opinion. As for general field order though, yeah ... I don't even give clients an option for that in software if I can help it. Anything other than 'yyyymmdd' is just going to cause confusion at some point.

    70. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      23 Dec 2011 is clear to everyone regardless of what standard they expect.

    71. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by swalve · · Score: 1

      Get off of the platform, get on the platform. Sounds right to me.

    72. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by swalve · · Score: 1

      There is only one Google. Google perfects.

    73. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by swalve · · Score: 1

      For reference: fewer than is for discrete objects, less than is for quantities. I have fewer rocks in my head than Joe; I weigh less than him.

    74. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by icebike · · Score: 2, Informative

      Off of
      On to

      "On of" makes no sense, which is why it sounds wrong : because it is wrong.

      "On to" (or onto) sounds fine. Because it is perfectly correct.

      Your confusion is caused by your assumption that the same preposition structure would be used in dissimilar situations.

      I have no clue what the technical name is for the OF following OFF. But what ever it is, it must match. Omitting it seems fine in either case, but if used it must be correct.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    75. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by jensend · · Score: 1

      Amen. Another reason to bemoan the fact that MS Office (with its inferior grammar stuff which never has really been improved) took over the world.

      Just in the last few years faint glimmers of innovation in grammar checking started to appear after a 15-year hiatus. For instance, LanguageTool, the Link grammar being used as a checker, and a few commercial tools with hints of new ideas.

      Maybe within a few years some of these tools will actually deliver major improvements.

    76. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by QaDN · · Score: 1

      I happen to have some expertise in this area (i.e., I have published some peer-reviewed work on spelling correction).
      So, why are spell-checkers wrong?
      Basically there are two types of errors (which can be further subdivided later).
      1) unknown string.
      2) known strings that are wrong by context.

      Now spell-checkers have a much easier time with the first type, especially if you defined an error as "not appearing in the dictionary".
      However, even than, most systems (e.g., firefox, word, openoffice) only deal somewhat well with typos.
      Other unknown string "errors" they deal less well with, think off foreign (but correct!) words, jargon, run-ons, splits, etc.

      For the second type you need to have some _really reliable_ model of context in order to catch these types of errors.
      Personally I don't believe the way to go is a grammar-based system.
      I think a system that, with quite some statistics, can implicitly learn the correct grammar in much simpler models.
      (for instance a model of the "typical" context words co-occuring with a specific word).

      Anyway: spell checking does not work that way. It still has a LONG long way to go.

    77. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      What browser auto corrects as you type? I've used every major browser but Opera over the past year or so now and at most I've gotten the red squiggly line. Firefox's spell check has been finicky for me as of late too, opting not to highlight several obvious misspellings. It's also worth noting that as in-browser text editors get more and more advanced, I've noticed a lot of web pages outright breaking the built in spell checking systems, especially the "rich" text editors.

      There's also grammar to contend with, which no browser to my knowledge makes an attempt to correct: using "their, they're, or there" in proper context, etc. I've only ever see word processing programs attempt such things.

    78. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Kelzar · · Score: 1

      Don't hate. The Labour Party (not that they're alone) communicates in a dialect that speaks to its constituency. Just because you find it incoherent doesn't mean that they're making mistakes.

    79. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by OrigamiMarie · · Score: 1

      There / their / they're and your / you're errors cause my mental parser to derail much, much worse than "teh"-type spelling errors. I have to get to the point where the sentence completely falls apart, stop, back up, figure out which variant is required here, substitute it, start the sentence over again, and hope I make it through the detour without derailing again.

      After the second time in a given piece of writing, I start wondering how much schooling the writer absorbed. After the third time, I am likely to decide that I don't care what they have to say.

    80. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by cgomezr · · Score: 1

      I think there/their/they're or your/you're errors are not an issue if you are a native speaker, but that doesn't apply to non-native speakers. I can deal with that (after a second of confusion) but I have friends that are at a 1st Certificate level of English and they sometimes absolutely fail parsing sentences when those errors, and ask me what they mean.

    81. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Can we just settle on yyyy-mm-dd as ISO suggests? Or is ISO hated in the US? The dashes tell you it's ISO format.

    82. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by jpapon · · Score: 1

      Another subtle difference is whether or not corporations are plural. In American English we tend to say "Apple is ..." or "IBM has ..." whereas I believe the Brits tend to use the plural version "Apple are..." etc

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    83. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I hate spell checkers that correct-as-you-type. I'm fine with those that put a red line under a word it thinks is wrong.

      My general problem is that I write a lot of Dutch and English, but spell checkers aren't smart enough yet to recognize that.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    84. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I share your dream, and fight with you. One day, we shall be victorious...

    85. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      I'm a Brit living in Canada, so I see a lot of the American culture pervading into the Canadian lifestyle. When we emigrated I changed all the dictionaries to Canadian English, but I can't see much of a rise in the number of misspellings, either because I can't spell, or because of the weirdness of the use of u's. But I do see a lot of Canadians using both spellings. And like I said, don't get me started about the date formats.

      And Stormwatch is quite right - French is also used, although I'm living in an almost exclusively English speaking part of the world (and I can barely string a sentence together in French.) I'd be interested to hear what the difference between French spoken in France and French spoken in Canada.

    86. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by BlueScreenO'Life · · Score: 1

      Edit in a text editor and paste into the web text box, it won't check spelling.

    87. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

      Memo to AC:

      English isn't *yours* either, it's now *everybody's*, except when they misspell two words in one sentence in an article about misspellings.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    88. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      As you say spell checking isn't a viable solution for an idiot. It's only of value really to people who make accidental mistakes. Idiots still manage to look like idiots.

    89. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has already been solved by ISO 8601. YYYY-MM-DD is for winners. Everything else, including bastards like YYYY/MM/DD, is for losers.

    90. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      My own personal experience (as a Brit) is that either is acceptable, though I personally use the singular.

    91. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting thing is that for me spell checkers introduce misspellings more often than correct them.

    92. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shame on you! You missed all the other spelling errors that he did put in that sentence in purpose.

      (I see 5, but I won't play this game with you; english is not my native language)

    93. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yyyy-mm-dd is the ISO standard.

    94. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Alan+R+Light · · Score: 1

      Grammatik was also pathetic.

    95. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even misspellings of there, their and they're (or 'you're' and 'your') are not an issue.

      It's not a big issue, but sometimes it is indeed an issue. I do find it annoying if I have to attempt to find out who "they" might be, if it should have actually been "there". It doesn't really help if the grammar is all over the place as well.

    96. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by BigSes · · Score: 1

      But written Australian English is different from North American English.

      In N.A. things are similar TO each other or they are different FROM each other.

      We would no more say Different TO than we would say Similar FROM. Just seems wrong to our ears.

      Hey, bubba, whats this gibberish?

    97. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Livius · · Score: 1

      Actually, the consistency with en-US and en-GB is horrible. And it really does diminish what is otherwise usually scholarly quality writing. Shallow, true, but that's reality. It's especially tragic because with all the other Wiki markup there's no reason not to have one more preference option and leave it to the viewer to choose en-GB-oed, en-CA, or whatever.

    98. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Are you one of the Grammar Nazis?

      Think about it and you will realize that more than 95% of posters who attempt to correct errors in grammar or spelling are called Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis or Soup Nazis.

      And more than 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

      --
      Will
    99. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by jensend · · Score: 1

      True. But it was slightly less pathetic, and it had been improving a little too. Once MS Office started to dominate, grammar checkers stagnated completely for 15 years.

    100. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I said that it "sounds as odd" and compared it to something which was clearly incorrect. I wasn't confused about what usages were or weren't incorrect, nor was I suggesting that, "he got on of the bus," is proper English anywhere.

    101. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Where are you from? America? UK? Australia? If you're American, then what you said lines up with what I was told. If you're not, then you might want to check the rules regarding the addition of "of" in your particular country, since some quick checking I did months ago indicated that it was only considered correct in the American dialect.

    102. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by S.O.B. · · Score: 1

      Whooosh!

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    103. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Zanadou · · Score: 1

      Willis?

    104. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is there any discussion about this point? ISO already fixed something. Something that's OK, even.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

    105. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by wfstanle · · Score: 1

      Spell checkers do not fix all of the problems. My brother, who is a poor speller, asked me to proof read his resume. He had run a spell checker and "fixed" all of the spelling errors. It was lucky for him that he did because there were some glaring errors. Instead of "I attended XXX community college" he accepted the spell checkers suggestion of "I attended XXX community collage". Until spell checkers start looking at the context of the misspelled word, they will not give good suggestions. Too often, spell checkers are used as a crutch that will often fail when needed.

    106. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it part of the arrogance of those electing themselves to write and editing articles on wiki that they refuse to use a spell checker, or is it that the words are simply unknown to the normal spell-check dictionaries?

      You might know the answer to this if you had read the linked article instead of immediately jumping in to editorialize (and no, I'm not new here).

      While there are a number of serious methodological concerns I've discussed in another post, the author's Table 4 ought to raise a screaming red flag. The algorithm the author used flagged about 5% of articles as having more than 25% of their words misspelled--and the author didn't discuss any sort of manual follow-up on those articles to determine where the problem lay. I'm sorry, but misspelling one word in four just isn't a plausible result.

      I suspect that the parser is failing to properly handle tables of data, scientific terminology, some unusual formatting and template markup, and foreign words. All of these categories will have been expanded greatly since Wikipedia's early days, and their presence is a sign that the encyclopedia is increasing in quality and coverage, not being degraded.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    107. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Christopher+Fritz · · Score: 1

      "Derail" is the perfect word for it. The same thing happens to me. It's like there's a sudden and abrupt shift in the meaning of the sentence when (for example) there's a "your" when it should be a "you're". I have to start over and force myself to read the "your" as "you are", and even then I tend to get derailed a second time in the same place. If that happens in a second location in the writing, my mind starts to have trouble following what's being written, so after the third location of such an error, I have to give up and go read something else instead.

      I used to be a vocal Grammar Nazi among people I'd instant message with when they'd make such mistakes, but too many people said "I don't care if I use it wrong"...

      The nice thing about Wikipedia is that if I find a spelling or grammar mistake, it's easy enough to fix.

      (Here's hoping I didn't make any typing errors in this comment!)

    108. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Anonymus · · Score: 1

      Foreign speakers make "they're their there" errors far less than native English speakers, so your point doesn't really hold.

    109. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by McFortner · · Score: 1

      Every web browser as auto spell-check capabilities these days.

      Am I the only one who finds irony of the use of "as" in this sentence instead of "has"?

      --
      Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
    110. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      In America, it's not uncommon to say either, "He got off the bus," or, "He got off of the bus," but the latter...

      Correct. Chromium apparently doesn't acknowledge the <strong> tag, so it took me a few re-reads to even spot the difference.

    111. Re:Spellink chekers. Duh! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I am an Australian so this is a sarcastic comment on Steve Job's version of English.

  2. Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether it's open source software or online collaborative projects, the smart people always get driven away over the long term. Smarter people are usually more interested in creating high-quality content, whereas stupider people end up putting out crap purely for political reasons. Eventually these stupider people start trying to modify the work of the smarter people, but do a poor job at it. When they're called out on their shitty work by the smart people, the fools make a huge stink. This soon devolves into a political mess where the smarter contributor is severely inhibited from contributing by the constant moaning and bitching of the idiots. Not wanting to waste time with such shenanigans, the smarter person leaves for some other endeavor. After a while, many of the smarter people are driven away, and the end result is that the stupider people make up the bulk of the project's contributions.

    We've seen this happen with many open source software projects, and I don't think that other kinds of online collaborative projects are any different.

    1. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Just like Linux.

    2. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 2

      Says the guy that uses the word stupider.

    3. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're correct. As a long-time Linux and NetBSD user, I've seen many great developers driven away by the politics of contributing to Linux and other GPL'ed open source projects. Many of the core GNU projects, especially glibc, are rife with some of the pettiest political squabbles I've ever seen, and that's including many years working in corporate America (where petty squabbles are a way of life).

      I don't know if the licensing influences the community, or if the community influences the licensing, but there's a pretty strong correlating between the best software developers just not succeeding when contributing to GPL'ed projects.

      We actually see them do their best work when working on projects released under a far more liberal license like the BSD license, MIT license or zlib license. Some people claim that the politics are worse in the BSD world, but that just isn't the case in practice. Most projects released under the GPL actually have politics playing a much greater role. After all, that could be why the GPL is being used in the first place. It's far more of a let's-argue-over-philosophical-nonsense license, versus far more practical let's-write-some-high-quality-software licenses like the BSD and MIT licenses.

    4. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent illustration!

    5. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can't say I've seen that on all articles on Wikipedia, but certainly I have seen it on some. I've seen articles dumbed down to suit the majority of the readers, rather than split and refined to allow the majority a summary and those wanting more information access to that. This certainly discourages those who are subject matter experts - what's the point in being an expert in something if all that's wanted is pub quiz grade?

      However, I emphasize that this is NOT what I've seen for the majority of articles. Some articles have been abandoned (occasionally in mid-edit, from the looks of it), some are constantly being updated with updates in conflict with each other, yet others are updated and are of extraordinarily high quality. It runs the full gamut.

      I would far prefer a layered approach, so that you could get access to whatever level of detail you wanted, but the contributors just aren't there to get that. It's a pity, and the net result is uneven quality, but Wikipedia is a case where it's better to have an imperfect something than a perfect nothing.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    6. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a perfectly correct comparative adjective.

      Are you an American, by any chance? I've heard that you fellows have some problems comprehending proper English.

    7. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stupider" is a generally accepted word; though I suppose you might find a few that object to it, most dictionaries don't.

    8. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      That's gotta be the stupidest word I've heard all day!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    9. Re:Many of the smart people have been driven away? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People get driven away from Wikipedia for many reasons, but it often delves down to ego battles. The style nazi's like to promote their view of Wikipedia and will often resort to revert wars or lengthy battles over what amounts to minutiae. Others will engage in bruising battles over what they perceive as "notable", but which ends up consuming the input resources of many editors. Yes there is political idiocy and creationist idiocy and aliens-must-exist idiocy and my corner bus station must be covered idiocy. The number of editors who actually add solid value to Wikipedia seems to be a fairly small percentage: maybe 10-15%.

  3. Typo or True Mistake? by Turnerj · · Score: 1

    I wonder how many our typos compaired to how many our truely speling mistaks?

    1. Re:Typo or True Mistake? by jrmcferren · · Score: 2

      Or moar ppl frm teh txting gener8on.

      --
      sudo mod me up
    2. Re:Typo or True Mistake? by Reasonable+Facsimile · · Score: 0

      Or moar ppl frm teh txting gener8on.

      This irks me to no end. My inbox is filled with this type of stuff. Sure, it's sometimes more convenient to take shortcuts, but if you're sending correspondence that you want taken seriously, it's probably wise to actually spell out words and capitalize accordingly.

  4. More articles, longer articles = more errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if these folks have corrected for the fact that there is just more content out there than before, which means the people and systems checking for spelling have more to crawl through. If those people/systems time spent hasn't grown as fast, then the misspelling rate will rise...

    1. Re:More articles, longer articles = more errors by TheABomb · · Score: 1

      TFA measured "Average misspellings as percentage of sampled content", up from 0 in 2001 to over 6% now.

      --
      MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
    2. Re:More articles, longer articles = more errors by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      0% in 2001? As in, less than a percent by enough that it didn't make sense to round up to 1%? that's a huge increase. I wonder if it's a real increase, or a result of sabotage by either independent malefactors, or by Britannica using an automated approach...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:More articles, longer articles = more errors by TheABomb · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's 0.00. But many of the 2400 articles they sampled were less than 10 years old. Noticeably, the rate jumps up to 2.58% in 2002, and then continues to climb a pretty steady by 0.365%/year after that, with a slightly higher uptick between 2006-07.

      I'm not entirely sure what to take away from that, but it does seem that the more articles WP adds, the less people care about writing them properly.

      --
      MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
  5. The bad drives out the good by timholman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can offer my own opinion of this phenomenon: the bad is driving out the good. Fewer competent writers are bothering to edit Wikipedia articles nowadays. Not only do contributions get reverted / deleted by editors who think they "own" the article, but good writers simply get tired of fixing the semi-literate ramblings of people who cannot write a coherent sentence.

    It's the old axiom that incompetent people cannot recognize their own incompetence, and so do not realize that their "contributions" are not improving the article, but instead are making it worse. Eventually the good contributors get tired of sweeping back the ocean with a broom, and just walk away from Wikipedia.

    1. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly so. I have corrected malformed sentences several times on wikipedia, only to have my edit reverted for no apparent reason. I gave up. Why bother to try, if some self proclaimed "owner" of that page must bless every change and ends up insulted if someone points out incorrect grammar?

      Incompetence drives out competence.

    2. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's correct, although it's not just Wikipedia where this phenomenon is taking place, much of the text submitted online appears to be of similar quality. While the assumption was that "crowdsourcing" the submissions to Wikipedia would help to ensure higher submission quality, the reality has been that the submissions have devolved to meet the lowest common denominator, which has been absolutely appalling.

    3. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with "incompetent people cannot recognize their own incompetence", I disagree with your point in general. People can innately understand what is good writing and what is not good writing. Suppose I add an incoherent and messy piece of writing to Wikipedia and someone else tidies it up, even if I'm an incompetent writer, I can still see the improvement and appreciate the improvement. On the other hand, the only reason I would want to add something to a well written and presented Wikipedia article is if it's incomplete or has made an error or erroneous assumption. Your point that editors battle a tide of semi-literate ramblings hasn’t been my experience. Additions have usually error fixes or keen observations and even a semi-literate writer could be a genius in the topic he’s trying to contribute to.

      On the other hand, I’ve found most Wikipedia articles to be one-dimensional. For an encyclopedia that could be updated by anyone, it seems just one person creates the article from his viewpoint and nobody else bothers to add the different facets to the topic.

      Maybe it’s my neck of the Wikipedia that’s different but I wish people would contribute more and not be deterred by thinking that their contributions probably aren’t welcome and a burden on the editor.

    4. Re:The bad drives out the good by mapuche · · Score: 1

      "On the other hand, I’ve found most Wikipedia articles to be one-dimensional. For an encyclopedia that could be updated by anyone, it seems just one person creates the article from his viewpoint and nobody else bothers to add the different facets to the topic."

      You're agreeing with parent. Articles are bidimensional because other facets are being deleted. I've started an article about shaders in Computer Graphics in general, then someone deleted the whole article to mention shaders in games only. Contributors don't always add,

    5. Re:The bad drives out the good by kyrio · · Score: 2

      So, what are you disagreeing with? Are you saying that people don't claim articles as their own and they don't revert any new edits? That's what happens. It happens a lot. The circumcision article is a classic example of that happening.

      Someone pro-mutilation comes in and edits the article how he wants it, to feel better about his situation, and reverts any edit made (edits that include citations) by opposing views. When someone decides to take it through the proper channels to expose the "owner" of the article, the owner brings in his e-friends to vote in his favour, regardless of how many citations/sources are provided, and the owner gets his way.

      It's not like any of this is new. There are websites dedicated to this crap. There are multiple /. articles regarding this topic.

    6. Re:The bad drives out the good by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      I don't really know anything about that article, and can believe it happens, but reading your comment I would guess that you're part of the partisan-editing problem. ;-)

    7. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you provide a single example to back up your assertion? Or are you simply butthurt because you got some edit reverted while you were oblivious to the fact that you were *that* incompetent idiot who tried to add absurd, unfound crap to an article?

    8. Re:The bad drives out the good by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      someone pro-mutilation comes in and edits the article how he wants it, to feel better about his situation,

      Not hard to guess which side you edit war for.

    9. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The bad has driven out the good long ago. 0.4% provide 90% of the content. Its ALL OPINIONS. Just click on random article, till it gets to something you *know* about. Example Adobe.com article. ANY mention of Beizier curves? and the Beizier curves vs cubic splines? Hmmm?

      Wikipedia is not crowd sourcing, its loud-mouthing.

    10. Re:The bad drives out the good by FridayBob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Totally agree! I spend the best part of *three years* working on a relatively obscure corner of WP's biology department involving some 500 articles and over 20,000 edits before finally throwing in the towel. I learned a lot during my time there, but eventually the idea of putting more effort into it just didn't make any more sense. One of their main problems is that the only thing preventing good articles from deteriorating is constant policing by knowledgeable editors -- and preferably by the people who are responsible for all the important contributions. I like to think that my contributions to WP have not been a complete waste, but if enough time goes by before anyone fills my shoes, I fear they will be. After all, what good is an article that's now only 99% accurate? 98%, 97%, 96%...

    11. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the point is that it doesn't just happen with controversial topics. People sometimes replace vague and cursory sections with neutral, sourced statements that explain topics in detail, only to have them reverted for no other reason than some idiot liked it the way they made and doesn't want to admit that the expertise they gained by sitting in one session of the wrong class sophomore year. Can you tell I've had to deal with this shit?

    12. Re:The bad drives out the good by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      It doesn't help that, as a reader, you hit edit and correct a typo only to have it rolled back the next day by a pissed off writer.

      The plague may not be the stupid, but the "butt hurt".

    13. Re:The bad drives out the good by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify, I only mean typos. I can understand a writer rolling back something that is false, that makes perfect sense. Intentionally going back to "thiis", not so much.

    14. Re:The bad drives out the good by kyrio · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've also made spelling corrections, on low profile articles, that were reverted within 30 seconds.

    15. Re:The bad drives out the good by kyrio · · Score: 1

      What edit war? That topic was taken care of years ago, afaik. The article was fixed up, but for all I know, it could be slanted away from neutral again.

    16. Re:The bad drives out the good by kyrio · · Score: 1

      You are bad at guessing. Stop that.

    17. Re:The bad drives out the good by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      The edit war you were complaining about.

      Not that I care about the subject, or would ever trust what Wikipedia's current "consensus" says on it. Articles on contentious issues -- Palestine, abortion, etc, etc, are an endless battleground and a complete tarpit.

    18. Re:The bad drives out the good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But his overall point stands - I have witnessed it myself how my absolutely minor typo edits get reverted in less than 24 hours. For the past two or three years even if I notice a mistake (god forbid factual mistake) I just mutter "Screw it" in my mind and move on.

  6. Worth Posting. by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So slashdot has just posted an article about a test where even the test's AUTHOR believes the results are due to shortcomings in the test itself. This has to be the most pointless article I've read in a while...

    1. Re:Worth Posting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must have missed the article where the guy was asking for help making a reading list.

      Now that wasn't much of an article, but still, it was far more pointless.

    2. Re:Worth Posting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Pointless" implies this article has no purpose. That's false. The purpose of the article is to get advertising for some random kid's blog.

    3. Re:Worth Posting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strangely none of the commenters here seem to have noticed.

      Most "research" on wikipedia is bullshit like this.

    4. Re:Worth Posting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should come more often. I enjoy such great articles almost every day.

  7. shut teh hell up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your a looser, so their!!!!

  8. Um... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    The crowd-sourced nature of Wikipedia might imply that its content should be more 'correct' than other sources.

    [citation needed]

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Um... by JustOK · · Score: 1
      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brilliant, simply brilliant! It's clever how you used a typical wikipedia construct commenting on wikipedia-related article.

    3. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiots correcting idiots.

      Wikipedia is a stinking pile of crap. While it may have occasional pearls, eaten by the family pet, it is mostly garbage.

    4. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crowd-sourced nature of Wikipedia might imply that its content should be more 'correct' than other sources.

      [citation needed]

      Linus' Law

  9. It's worse in the grammar department by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    Here is a typical example:

    Person A and B are on the ground floor of some building.
    Person A would like person B to have some parcel delivered to the 7th floor of the building.

    Here's how person A delivers the request:

    "Buddy, please bring this parcel up to the seventh floor, thanks".

    I posit that this grammar is wrong. He should say:

    "Buddy, please take this parcel to the seventh floor, thanks", because they are in the same area and buddy B, by doing the needful, will be leaving that place.

    Worse still, you even hear it in the main stream media.

    Other cases:

    Folks addressing "data" and "media" as singular! Again, wrong. They should be using "datum" and "medium".

    1. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by frisket · · Score: 1

      "please bring this parcel up to the seventh floor, thanks".

      Except that in some forms of English, this is perfectly correct (Hiberno-English, for example).

      "datum" and "medium"

      That battle was lost many decades ago, if it even got fought.

    2. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      People who say "the data is" are treating "data" as a synonym for "information". They are usually referring to more than one piece of information, so "datum" would not be correct.

    3. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Since english itself is a dynamic language, you can argue both are correct. Remember, that the grammatical rules between what's spoken and what's written are usually 110-150 year apart.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      I blame Star Trek for that one, though.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    5. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by isCreeper($('Ssss')) · · Score: 1
      Also, a huge part of this is simply personal style. For example, when you say:

      That battle was lost many decades ago, if it even got fought.

      As an Australian English speaker, the second clause just sounds ugly, and I would say "if it was even fought". Both are correct.

    6. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not with you on the bring/take distinction.

      At the end of the day, Person B might well say to his gay lover 'I brought a parcel to the 7th floor'. If that's the case, 'bring' seems fine.

      As I see it, in both cases, the box is the subject of the sentence; the box is being brought. The location of the person issuing the imperative doesn't really figure into it. 'Bring it to me' and 'Bring it to him' are both fine.

    7. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data is a mass noun.

      What's wrong with you is the same thing that's wrong with so many Wikipedia editors (who are breaking the rules, by the way).
      You people need to start looking stuff up, writing from sources instead of just pulling from the great trove of your own "knowledge".

    8. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by sycodon · · Score: 1

      At least he said please.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    9. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure using "data" and "media" as singular is accepted by authorities. "Bring" versus "take" is often wrong in speech, and I suspect it will go the way of who/whom: the distinction will remain in formal writing but not in colloquial or spoken English.

    10. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lolwut ? there was only one data on star trek.

    11. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by laejoh · · Score: 1

      Don't get me started on Uncle Jack whom I needed to help of his horse!

    12. Re:It's worse in the grammar department by Livius · · Score: 1

      The mystery of collective nouns - singular or plural?

      (Actual linguists will tell you than singular, plural, both, and neither are all perfectly valid answers.)

  10. Eye don't no by istartedi · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Eye don't no how ewe can automate proof reading. You still knead a human in the loupe.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Eye don't no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eye don't no how ewe can automate proof reading. You still knead a human in the loupe.

      hou lse
      iz da nu werld ordor gonna no iph da sayin ignorants iz strenth iz reel er nut
      1984 iz a buk nut a mastar plan

    2. Re:Eye don't no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eye don't no how ewe can automate proof reading. You still knead a human in the loupe.

      Grate answer!

  11. Stop whining and fix-em by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

    Unless the article is locked, just fix the spelling errors yourself instead of whining about them getting worse.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    1. Re:Stop whining and fix-em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'fix Wikipedia'. Are you serious? By myself. I dont think so...

    2. Re:Stop whining and fix-em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people are locked out from wikipedia due to network-wide ip address blocks. They literally CAN'T just fix the errors -- through no fault of their own, multitudes of potential impulse contributors have been forbidden from ever correcting wikipedia.

    3. Re:Stop whining and fix-em by tepples · · Score: 1

      Are they locked out from editing Wikipedia from a home (not work or school) network in an Anglophone (not Sinophone) country, even if they request an {{unblock}}?

    4. Re:Stop whining and fix-em by rdebath · · Score: 1

      Didn't you even read TF summary. They did an automated check of historical trends. It says nothing about getting the errors fixed and I expect most of the ones they've found were fixed a long time ago. Even the most recent sample is likely to be fairly old and so the mistakes will tend to have been fixed and all new ones inserted.

      As for an automated fix, we've all seen the spellchecker horror stories sites.

  12. The ever growing number of articles... by FridayBob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... and the growth in size of many articles, combined with the limited number of Wikipedia editors, is one possible reason why spelling errors may be on the increase. Also, one form of vandalism is the intentional introduction of spelling errors.

    1. Re:The ever growing number of articles... by BigSes · · Score: 1

      They've driven everyone away that would want to help with their "in-crowd" tactics. No reason to help anymore because of the gang mentality. When politics become more important than information, nobody wants to lift a finger to make corrections when their hard work is deleted because its deemed extraneous.

  13. What's really curious by 2.7182 · · Score: 2

    Is not the increase in rates, and that crowdsourcing doesn't solve the problem, but that spell checkers don't solve the problem. What's up with that?

    1. Re:What's really curious by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It might also be that there are specialist words being used on Wikipedia that aren't in the dictionary.. unless this test is explicitly looking for common misspellings..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:What's really curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      considering Wiki has articles on just about everything, this is the most sensible reply compared to all the US vs UK debate going on downstairs.

      any of the thousands of wiki pages on proper names of Asian or South American or African locations would immediately invoke many "spelling errors" via most spell checkers. i wonder how many spelling "errors" would the page for Treaty of Shimonoseki have from any generic spell checker? or how about something more recent, the wiki page for Vocaloid? there's the answer, not typos or labor vs labour.

    3. Re:What's really curious by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      The study attempted to prevent that by including Wiktionary and a few other sources, but I'm not convinced by the methodology given. You've probably hit the nail on the head.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:What's really curious by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      I suspect that another contributing factor is the Long Tail. That is, as Wikipedia expands, the newest articles are of topics that are of interest to fewer people. Being seen less, they are less likely to be corrected.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    5. Re:What's really curious by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Assuming of course they are referring to English, then this is likely the problem https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/language-tools/ 6 different English dictionaries listed there, with of course different spelling 'colouring' the use of language and that's only the technically skilled of the most popular versions of English, there are more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language.

      What is really going on is the internationalisation of the language due to it being the most convenient global communication medium and the internet is spreading it and of course making the language a victim of it. Soon there will be a recognised Chinese English, Russian English etc. etc. (likely never a French English weird relationship between those two). So more spelling errors or just more American exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  14. Muphry's Law by AnotherScratchMonkey · · Score: 5, Informative

    icebike is a victim of Muphry's Law.

    1. Re:Muphry's Law by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Most of that had to be deliberate. I think that every single homophone in that entire last sentence was wrong. The "has" was an amusing typo. The "edit" versus "editing" thing was actually not wrong, though it was awkward. Reread it as "electing... or editing" instead.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Muphry's Law by icebike · · Score: 1

      Typo and tense change were unintentional. I'll cop to the Muphry's Law violation. It bites me all the time. But hey, this is Slashdot.

      The last sentence, on the other hand, totally intentional, and watching all the whoosh posts has been fun.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Muphry's Law by DaTrueDave · · Score: 0

      I've never had Cornish Pastries....

    4. Re:Muphry's Law by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The one about "pasties" got me from the other direction on a post here because I only knew about the word being used to describe a foldover vegetable pie. The ironic thing is some guy calling me naive for not knowing it while he was the sucker going to "strip" shows where he couldn't even see what is on display at the beach!

  15. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... this whole article is basically just asking us if we think the internet is misspelling things more often these days?

  16. Not to mention the homonym fails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's quite likely there are also a lot of homonym failures, as aptly pointed out humorously in the other posts. Just because it passes through spell-check doesn't mean it's technically correct.

    Then you also have a problem with technical words, Anglicization of foreign words (which don't even always follow normal English phonetic conventions - translation of Japanese words/names for instance), unique names, etc. that aren't included in most browser dictionaries. If you're not watching close enough, it's certain that auto-correct can easily make a mess of things.

    1. Re:Not to mention the homonym fails by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      which don't even always follow normal English phonetic conventions

      Wait, English has normal phonetic conventions?

  17. older IE's do not have spell check. by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    older IE's do not have spell check.

    1. Re:older IE's do not have spell check. by Tyrannosaur · · Score: 1

      Then they should be banned from editing wikipedia. But for other reasons.

  18. We're not all Americans, you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, I wonder if this text mining exercise took into account the fact that, although all contributors (to the English version of Wikipedia) are, in fact, typing their articles in English - spelling can vary throughout the world. For example - a spelling of "defence" is not "wrong" - it is just the way a Brit, Aussie, Kiwi etc would spell what Americans call "defense". Same goes with colour/color, centre/center, organise/organize etc etc etc. If you include the many instances of these sorts of words across thousands of wikipedia articles, you're going to skew your results...

  19. Smart phones and txt messaging. by stevenfuzz · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the future, where text input has become minimalized and marginalized. When half the dictionary has become standardized to 3 letter abbreviations, I don't find it the least bit surprising that spelling and grammar have gone out the window. Maybe this isn't some new symptom of aa illiterate world, but rather the written English word evolving in front of our eyes; the technological revolution.

  20. I'm a technical writer and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I shall never be out of work.

    1. Re:I'm a technical writer and... by fdrebin · · Score: 1

      If common internet usage is any indicator, you eventually will be out of work because so few seem to care about spelling and grammar... so then they'll just let the engineers write the documentation. (Sorry for expressing such a horrid thought so close to a Major Holiday ;) )
      Actually I don't really believe that this will happen, but it is a scary thought.
      /F

      --
      Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
  21. Re:Moot mute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Egg corn.

  22. Literacy by frisket · · Score: 1

    I would guess that this is nothing to do with spellcheckers (which are useful for catching typos, but fairly useless for catching mis-spellings). As this was observed over time, might it not be possible that the decreasing level of literacy may be being exposed by a decrease in the average age of the contributors?

    1. Re:Literacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps an increase in the English-as-a-second-language nature of the third world joining the Internet Age?

    2. Re:Literacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      preposterous and ridiculous since most non-native english typers have way better grammar than most non-mexican & non-canadian north-american people...

  23. I would put some of it on age by Bork · · Score: 2

    I think some the issue here is that a new generation is showing up with poor literacy skills. The primary schools are under pressure to meet their government mandated competency requirements, budget cuts, and various other issues, and have cut back on some of the basic skills that were once taught.

    I work at a tutoring center / assistance center at a college and it is depressing what students are coming out of high school in their basic literacy skills. Writing skills are non-existing, were some of them do not even know how to hold a pencil correctly and unless there is a computer with a spell checker, their spelling is limited to about the 4th grade level.

    I have been seeing this for several years now and these are the people that are replacing the older generation of people who did not have computers as evasive as it is now.

     

  24. shrinking use of Firefox,editing blocks and revert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally, think that the biggest problem, as a random contributor, is the hostile attacking attitude that wikipedia has for outside contributors. Far too often, I've seen my edits reverted, or, worse, completely blocked due to huge random network-wide ip address blocks (thanks, Alison, you f#$$#% b$^%$). I don't bother editing articles anymore -- and if I do manage to luckily slip past one of the huge ip network blocks, I expect that my contributions will be destroyed in some political fight, so I might just comment on the discussion page, if I really feel strongly about it.

    I use wikipedia on a daily basis, but due to the hostile attitude and blatant biases, I don't trust it, and I've mostly given up on it. It's become just another website for me -- there are other, more specialized websites out there -- which sometimes have higher quality information.

    Another possible reason for more errors, aside from nobody giving a damn about wikipedia anymore, is that Firefox, with its built in spell checker, is declining in use, in favor of Chrome. Chrome doesn't max out the cpu and destroy batteries like Firefox -- but it also doesn't have a built in spellchecker.

  25. it's not just wikipedia.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've noticed many more spelling errors in online news articles recently. I'm not talking about blogs, but actual news publications, including AP articles. Most of the errors are the type where a word is spelled correctly, but it's obviously the wrong word, and an automated spell checker wouldn't catch it. Ex: "It was am important step..."

  26. IRC tutorial page full of errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before yesterday it had referred to a web-based chat called cg:irg for a year.

  27. Lol by lightknight · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's sad. Through all this web content, I am slowly unlearning how to spell or use proper grammar.

    English teachers / professors (with a few exceptions) used to be my arch-enemies (as a math / science person) and wished them all a pleasant, if sudden, death for their batshit-insane insistence on making mountains out of molehills (i before e, except after c; can't end a sentence with a preposition; this {subject}) with regards to the language, and yet lately I finding myself wishing there were more of them.

    It's not fair: I've nursed some of those grudges for years!

    --
    I am John Hurt.
    1. Re:Lol by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I know! They were also insistent that the mass of Hydrogen was 1 and that Pi was exactly 22/7. Shocking!

    2. Re:Lol by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. Pi is exactly 3. We all know the story of the politicians who were voting on simplifying a universal constant, and the visiting mathematician who explained to them that universal constants do not work that way. ;-)

      --
      I am John Hurt.
  28. Higher Availability by Bensam123 · · Score: 1

    I believe this is due to Wikipedia becomnig more diverse. As more people learn about Wikipedia, the more people contribute to it. It's overall becoming more accessible to everyone and therefore everyone is putting their two cents. Where as in the beginning you could argue that the population was more centered around a niche crowd who are more pedantic then those that just wish to contribute in some form.

    1. Re:Higher Availability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's overall becoming more accessible to everyone and therefore everyone is putting their two cents.

      Yes, the Lunatics have nearly completely taken over the Asylum.

  29. Britannica is one factor by brusk · · Score: 1

    Surely one factor is that early in its history much of the content on Wikipedia was copied from a public domain edition (1911?) of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, in which one would expect to find very few spelling errors. Over time more and more of the content is user-generated, so naturally it is more likely to contain typos.

    --
    .sig withheld by request
    1. Re:Britannica is one factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you seen the 1911 Brittanica? Reads like some weird Old English text, full of obsolete spellings and words that sometimes defy the heftiest of dictionaries. Besides, most of the 1911 Brittanica additions to Wikipedia occurred post 2005.

  30. This is an artifact to his experiment by m00sh · · Score: 2

    The increase in the percentage of spelling errors is an artifact of his experimental procedure. He randomly takes a Wikipedia article instead of analyzing the most popular ones. As Wikipedia has become larger, it has attracted more fringe topics, probably from authors in different countries in the world where English is not their first language. Wikipedia now probably has more articles that aren’t viewed and revised as much. Thus, randomly sampling has now higher chances of selecting such articles and thus, higher spelling mistakes.

    He should change his experiment so that he analyzes the spelling mistakes on the most accessed and modified pages in Wikipedia or discard articles where the activity on the article is below a certain threshold.

    1. Re:This is an artifact to his experiment by tool462 · · Score: 1

      It's reasonable to hit all the pages at random, but the results should be weighted by the popularity of the page. That would be a better measure of how good crowd-sourcing is at solving these types of problems. Including the low-popularity pages in the results is important to this because it covers another issue with crowd-sourcing--it takes at least three to make a crowd. If wikipedia's breadth gets too large, the crowd sourcing method breaks down since there's nobody looking at most pages. It brings the credibility of many pages into question as a result.

    2. Re:This is an artifact to his experiment by philgp · · Score: 1

      Why not use the entirety of Wikipedia rather than a random sample? Surely a modern PC wouldn't take long to spellcheck the whole lot?

  31. Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedia by sandytaru · · Score: 3, Informative

    After the last time I tried to clean up some grammar and spelling in an article and it was immediately reverted with "didn't cite sources" I gave up.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  32. No, it's basically American English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Canadians don't call the sidewalk "pavement" as British do. They don't call a cigarette a "fag".

    Canadian English is closer to American English than to British English. It's mostly American English with British spellings.

    1. Re:No, it's basically American English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds very similar to my own version of English. I am an American, but I grew up in England (attended primary school there). I tend to use American terms such as "sidewalk", "cigarette" and "flashlight", but I spell and pronounce words in the English manner.

      After I moved back to the USA, I remember getting marked down on high school papers for "incorrect" spelling by ignorant teachers.

    2. Re:No, it's basically American English by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      Australians have told me they consider their country's accent closer to American English, while Canadians have said their accent is closer to that of Britain. To my ear the converse is true, and perhaps these statements are more indicative of feelings about national identity.

    3. Re:No, it's basically American English by Alan+R+Light · · Score: 1

      That sounds reasonably accurate, though my impression of Australian English is that it is about half-way between British and American, splitting the difference between the two varieties (and adding a few quirks of their own).

      However, the English spoken in Canada is virtually the same as that spoken in the United States - certainly the differences are no greater than those which exist regionally in the U.S. - and I've never heard a Canadian say otherwise. Perhaps your friends were trying to say that Canadian English is closer to British English than U.S. English is - which is true, but just barely.

    4. Re:No, it's basically American English by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          The word you're grasping for is "colloquialism". They are not always defined by national geographic boundaries either.

          "Soda", "cola", "pop", "coke", "coca", "pepsi", "tonic", "soft drink", "soda water", "fizzy drink", and "refresco", are common colloquialisms used as generic descriptions of carbonated sugary drinks, regardless of name brand similarities.

          As in your example, "cigarette", "fag", and "smoke" are common colloquialisms.

          Those are just ones I'm familiar with, and can think of right off, because they're used in places I've been.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    5. Re:No, it's basically American English by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I had a short stint working at a defense contractor with a bunch of folks with less programming experience than me. What really amazed me is one day one of my co-workers was reading a news article and complained that they'd misspelled the word "organize" with an "s" rather than a "z".

      I just commented, "Oh, that's just the British spelling." to which everyone in the group was literally amazed at how I could possibly know that.

      Because, um, I've read a few books?

      I have no problems with our friends in the UK spelling and pronouncing things differently. It's just another bit of spice to the variety of language. Of course, too much of our language is polluted with the foul flavors of misuse and ignorance, but being the good Grammar Nazi that I am, I'll keep plugging along trying not to make mistakes myself and making the occasional snarky comment upon seeing some egregious misuse of the language.

      Several years ago, my biggest peeve was people using "loose" for "lose", an error which seemed to me to grow very fast. The new one that really chafes my behind is the increasing use of "suppose" for "supposed", as in "You're supposed to use good grammar if you want to communicate effectively." This one bothers me a lot more because it's not a case of failing to know the vagaries of English spelling (after all, "choose" rhymes with "lose") but a complete misapprehension of the grammar of the words involved.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  33. History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some Babylonian confusion is the cost of globalization. And ever since the WWW was invented, english has deteriorated ever faster. But the phenomena of languages deteriorating is as old as the languages themselves. Pidgin English was an offspring of colonialism. And see what happened to Latin, oince it became popular. Then take a look at where colonialism in effect taking place today. A language's popularity can well become its downfall.

    For some comic relief: A link to Mark Twain's "Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling":
    http://design.caltech.edu/erik/Misc/Twain_english.html

    And please excuse any poor spelling and all awkward phrasing.. I'm just a Norwegian lass.

    1. Re:History repeats itself by rkaa · · Score: 1

      Very well put, If I may say so! (forgot to log in)

  34. I locked up the spelling on Wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it sed everything was spelled write.

  35. Which is why I joined Wikipedia in the first place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I joined Wikipedia just because I grew tired of all the spelling errors and wanted to correct them.

  36. More != Better by SigmundFloyd · · Score: 1

    As the saying goes, the more eyes the better.

    That's a myth. If those eyes aren't attached to competent people, having more of them will do no good.

    --
    Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
    1. Re:More != Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the saying goes, the more eyes the better.

      That's a myth. If those eyes aren't attached to competent people, having more of them will do no good.

      We also have the saying "Too many cooks spoils the broth."

  37. Spell however you want by qualityassurancedept · · Score: 2

    We awl noe wot ure saeng no mader howe u spell it.

    --
    if your life is such a big joke then why should I care?
  38. Lazy writers and poor writing skills by PoopMonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

    This may sound like a get off my lawn type post, but from what I've seen it seems that the writing ability of younger people has severely declined. And it's not even that big a difference in age that I'm talking about here, I'm talking about people less than 10 years younger than me. I "abuse" the language a fair amount myself, but I'm talking about seeing people thinking column has a b in it, and despair doesn't have an e. There are fluctuations in the language that I'm used to; such as the color vs. colour thing; but basic spelling problems that would not be correct in any dialect seems to be pretty common. And of course we have the their vs. there problem.

    1. Re:Lazy writers and poor writing skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the problem of "younger than me" when it's "younger than I". Sheesh, these young'uns and their adulteration of the language!

      I mean seriously, while your admission of abuse is commendable, given how poorly punctuated your screed is, I don't think you should be throwing stones.

    2. Re:Lazy writers and poor writing skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh the irony, the original phrasing is actually the correct one! Hypercorrection strikes again.

    3. Re:Lazy writers and poor writing skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me too. Those lazy test writers shouldn't just give up when they realize the change in word distribution over time is skewing their test results. They should fix the tests, measuring the frequency of misspellings of individual words.

  39. Novelty has worn off by ibennetch · · Score: 1

    I see a lot of good comments here, but the fact of the matter is that the novelty of editing has worn off for many of us. In the beginning, when Wikipedia was small, or when it was new, or whatever the reason, it was fun to keep an eye on a few pages. That novelty has worn off, and along with it, any desire to fix the little spelling errors I find along the way.

    As a side note, Wikipedia had, at one time, a large number of articles about my profession. None of them was accurate, at least in the US sense of defining many terms, specializations, and equipment. Maybe other parts of the world call things differently, but I doubt to the degree that Wikipedia was wrong. Still, I wasn't about to go re-write and fix links in every article -- even if I would have been able to find sources.

    So frankly, I've given up. Yes, I notice spelling errors on Wikipedia. I just read past them. It's not worth fighting with people over and it's not worth my time to fix. My interests lie elsewhere. Sorry, universe.

    Also, misspellings and bad grammar on the internet are cool. Just look at some of drivel published by actual legitimate news sources (AP, I'm looking at you. Would it kill you to spell check an article before posting? I know it wouldn't fix the "their/there" and related problems, but it's a start.)

  40. Entropy by tverbeek · · Score: 1

    Wikipedia is not immune to entropy.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  41. ISO 8601 by tepples · · Score: 1

    Is it so hard to remember smallest to biggest?

    Yes, because it's 2011-12-23 where I am, not 32-21-1102. Days are smaller than tens of days, right? I prefer ISO 8601 because biggest to smallest is "lexicographically monotonic" on any date in the common era, meaning that sorting a set of strings representing any dates since Jesus M. Christ was potty trained gives the same result whether one treats them as dates or as generic strings.

    1. Re:ISO 8601 by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Ah, sorry, I'm human not a computer. Curse all those other humans who didn't think of the consequences for computers centuries before they were invented!

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    2. Re:ISO 8601 by tepples · · Score: 1

      The Chinese have been using YYYY-MM-DD since before I was born (source). It's really the only unambiguous format.

    3. Re:ISO 8601 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then, do you also refer to people by surname forename in everyday speech? The Chinese do that too.

      Only if you're adding entries into a computer database does it make sense to use YYYY.MM.DD or surname forename. In everything else it's commonly taught and accepted to use DD.MM.YYYY and forename surname, unless you're living in Asia.

    4. Re:ISO 8601 by jpapon · · Score: 1

      Or the US, where it's MM/DD/YYYY. Which, while confusing mathematically, makes perfect sense in spoken English, since that is how one says it.... Month Day Year.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    5. Re:ISO 8601 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Many people say it as "24th of December, 2011" rather than "December 24th, 2011". Even in the USA you have "4th of July" holiday instead of "July 4th" holiday.

    6. Re:ISO 8601 by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      This is what I mean - the Canadians round here seem to use all three date formats. It's so confusing (especially when you're brought up in England where they exclusive use DD/MM/YYYY or are explicit if they want something else - usually YYYY/MM/DD) to see on forms the format they want you to use. I've even seen two different formats used on the same form!

      I speculate that it depends on who wrote the form (educated south of the border for example), or whether the company is an American subsidiary - but that is speculation. More often than not though there is no specification on what format they want, so I'm left wondering if (for example) the cheque I just wrote will not be cashed because it's considered by the bank to be post dated. How is the bank to know it's post dated if that's what I intended? It's not been a problem yet, but then I've not had to write a post-dated cheque.

      The thing about MM/DD is that's not how I say it. While grammatically correct to use either format, because I write DD/MM, I say it like that too.

    7. Re:ISO 8601 by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Works well till the Y10K problem ;).

      It'll be interesting if you get called out of retirement to fix that...

      --
  42. Re:Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedi by hankwang · · Score: 1

    "was immediately reverted with "didn't cite sources" " - Could you provide a link to the diff? One problem could be a lacking edit summary in combination with extensive rearranging of text. In such cases, it is difficult for an other editor to see what changed by looking at the diff. If the edit comes from an anonymous IP address and does not have an edit summary, a hurried editor could misunderstand your intentions.

  43. There's another root cause. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Working as a substitute teacher in a the high schools of a metropolitan public school system, I've seen spelling get worse over time. The students knowledge in most other subjects has also nosedived. Teachers have been forced to lower the bar time and time again. Tests are seldom given that are not "open notes." Every year, the students seem more lazy. Most see virtually no reason to worry about how to spell. They know they could spell-check. But, sadly, they're too lazy to do so.

  44. Badly flawed methodology by Idarubicin · · Score: 2
    Just looking at the raw result presented, I see a claim that more than 6% of Wikipedia is supposedly "misspelled content". This doesn't make sense--even though Wikipedia articles aren't perfect, it's not plausible that 1 in 16 words are misspelled. That's pretty much one spelling error in every sentence.

    Part of the problem is the article selection methodology. By pulling random articles, the study author is going to be getting mostly articles that have received little attention, and mostly short articles. (Table 2 and Graph 2 show this very clearly--of the 2400 articles examined, only 14 existed in 2001. Half of them didn't exist until 2007. A quarter were created between 2009 and the present.) It's possible that what has been demonstrated is simply that relatively new articles on relatively unimportant topics tend to be less-well maintained.

    The major issue is the corpus used for the study. While a half-million-word dictionary sounds impressive, it's still going to fall down in a couple of key areas. For one, foreign-language terms are likely to be nearly completely unrepresented. For another, a lot of proper nouns are going to be missing. If I write an article about Japanese manga or a Norwegian village, I'm going to be including all kinds of things that an English-language dictionary just isn't going to contain. (Worse, I'll get two misspellings for each Japanese term, since I'll have it in the article with both the original Japanese word plus the romanized transliteration). Another problem area will almost certainly be articles on highly technical topics (molecular biology is full of new and unusual abbreviations).

    While certain classes of 'obvious' non-words aren't counted, many will be missed. For example, the article preprocessor filters out percentages, but will pass through numbers followed by the degree symbol (which will show up in scientific and geographic articles).

    What is noticeably lacking from the report is any mention of manual checking performed by the author to evaluate the accuracy of the results generated by the spell checker. Table 4 reports that about five percent of articles contain more than 25% misspelled words(!); honestly, even people on Twitter don't (generally) show that level of illiteracy. Are there certain types of articles which are responsible for these grossly inflated counts?

    In summary -- sloppy methods give useless results. No news.

    --
    ~Idarubicin
    1. Re:Badly flawed methodology by tgv · · Score: 1

      You're probably right. Here's some illustration for some readers that might be wondering about the case. The first random article I got from Wikipedia started like this:

      The gudastviri (Georgian: ) is a droneless, double-chantered, horn-belled bagpipe played in Georgia. The term comes from the words guda (bag) and stviri (whistling). In some regions, the instrument is called the chiboni, stviri, or tulumi.

      My spell checker rejects gudastviri, droneless, chantered, guda, stviri, chiboni, stviri, and tulum. There is no way a 111k word dictionary contains all these words.

      The 25% is indeed an enormous red flag. In standard English texts, more than 50% of the text is made up of words like be, is, a, the, and, etc. I haven't seen any error in that on Wikipedia. That means that more than half of the nouns, verbs, and adjectives have been misspelled.

      Mod up parent!!

  45. You won't get a difflink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the poster is lying. They really added "bob is gay" to an article and are butthurt that wikipedia wouldn't accept their brillant vandalism, and they rationalize it by lying to themselves and the world about the facts around their edit.

  46. obligatory.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I, for one, welcome our illiterate overlords.

  47. Does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was getting the feeling that spelling really doesn't matter anymore. Misspellings seem to be so common now days along with the use of incorrect words - loose/lose, there/their, etc. It seems as if the reader can figure out what the writer meant then all is good.

  48. If you normalize by Page View Statistics... by wdavies · · Score: 1

    Hi,

    My counter(?) hypothesis is that the long tail of articles grows most, and gets no to little proof-reading. Therefore I'd love to see the results normalized by (log maybe) of Page Views (from http://stats.grok.se/ ). I've also a few doubts about the quality of randomly sampled pages in general, and also whether the growth of jargon (which may or may not end up as spelling-errors has increased).

    Excellently interesting piece though! Great work.

    Winton

  49. Something smells funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this just feels like the sort of thing Wikipedia would do on purpose, just to encourage other people to contribute ... remember, that's part of the MO over there.

  50. Not that you asked, by 0m3gaMan · · Score: 1

    But the Wiki-peepia is teeming with a plurality of crotchfruit who think spelling like a SPED is ok, and to call them on this fact would hurt their feelings.

  51. This is propably a good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My guess is that most of the increase in misspelling is because more and more contributors to English Wikipedia don't have English as a first language.

    This is a good thing. It means less cultural bias. It also means more correct and informative articles in areas where the English speaking world lack knowledge. Most native English speakers can only understand English, or have a very poor understanding of other languages; this means that knowledge from the non-English parts of the world is unlikely to ever reach the English speaking world, unless someone that doesn't have English as a first language make an effort to communicate in English, which is surprisingly hard on some subjects, since English sucks as a medium to communicate some ideas. English is after all a simplistic trading language, a pidgin, historically developed mostly by users that don't have English as their first language and only use it for trade. Until very recently, it have never been used to communicate any deeper thoughts; even native English speakers used other languages like Latin, French and German, depending on subject (Latin was the language of philosophers and biologists , French of diplomats, politicians and social scientists, German of Mathematicians, Logicians and Chemists et c.). Apart from being a very long-winded and inexpressive language, narrow-mindedness and bigotry literally built into the English language.

  52. but I must put more of it on bad teachers by scorpivs · · Score: 1

    I was going to comment, but I get tired of being chastized for 'correcting the teacher.'
    Did you even bother to proofread your post? Or was it your purpose to obfuscate?

    --
    There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
  53. There is a limit to what larger audience can do by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    I'm sure wikipedia's quality increased as the number of people who cared had increased but then everyone uses it and its quality goes back down. There is also an increase in articles on stupid stuff that attracts kids and idiots so there will be more mistakes.

  54. flawed from the start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting, Slashdot...

    A flawed test produces a flawed report, a flawed article, and completely off topic comments in the 4+. Who would have guessed.

  55. Date format: writing vs. speech by tepples · · Score: 1

    in everyday speech?

    You got me there. I use the ISO 8601 format only in writing. In speech, I have "Dee-sem-burr" to disambiguate. It's the same way a lot of languages say "four and twenty" but still write 24.

  56. Mis-spellings Yur rite by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    Chalk up the misspellings to smartphone use and use of abbreviations.

    I have another problem related. I work in English (born and raised), (RWS)
    I am in a French province and I also work and write in French, (RWS)
    and I write and read Spanish. Spelling words that are common to English
    and the second language always leads to misspellings.

    English tends to double up consanents, the other languages do not.

    BTW (RWS = Read Write Speak) (BTW = By the way)

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  57. add to dictionary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    adding "misspelled" words to your own dictionary, will cause more mispelled words over time. simple.

  58. You mispelled neologism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ironic, huh?

  59. Re:Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    a hurried editor could misunderstand your intentions

    See. It's not actually a problem. The editor was likely hurried, so you can't blame them for their blatant and repeated fuck up. After all, they "own" so many articles of their prose that need their constant protection.

    Contrary to your hurried editor, a GOOD editor wouldn't make arbitrary decisions with no basis in fact. If they cannot see the change or a problem, perhaps they don;t need to act. But, they don't hesitate to hit revert as soon as they get the change notification!

  60. Begging the question. by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

    "The crowd-sourced nature of Wikipedia might imply that its content should be more 'correct' than other sources. As the saying goes, the more eyes the better."

    As the saying goes, none of us is as dumb as all of us.

    Who's responsible for checking those wikipedia entries for correct spelling? All of us? You mean, none of us.

  61. et tu, Jon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    alas ... "lead me to ask" in the first paragraph when "led" was what was meant?

  62. Re:Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedi by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 2

    No one ever, ever, cites a diff when they are bitching about Wikipedia on Slashdot.

  63. Americans can't spell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans control the initial soft dictionaries that are used by spell checkers, but between Canada, the UK, Australia, and South Africa, the MAJORITY of the world spells things like "colour" rather differently than the US would like.

    Rather than say wikipedia is rife with spelling errors, maybe it's time to admit the Americans can't spell.

    1. Re:Americans can't spell by icebike · · Score: 1

      Americans do not "control" soft dictionaries. Tin foil much?

      Set your country code and browser language appropriately and you are good to go.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  64. See visors, pants and music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Proof that kids these days have no idea how to use what they have, which naturally extends to language use.

    Nah, just kidding. Most people don't spell particularly well. Early in Wiki's life, it was maintained by a more concentrated population of geeks, who tend to spell better. Now that the lowest common denominator of spellers is closer to the mean average contributor, spelling prowess starts to list. I also don't doubt that with exponentially fewer pages out there, those of us spelling/grammar Nazis who troll for errors have too many to effectively deal with.

  65. use a blacklist instead of a whitelist ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The main weakness I see in your protocol is your spelling check

    => could you confirm your results by using a blacklist of commonly misspelled words instead of a whitelist ?

    this is a much quicker experiment and your can probably find a blacklist and/or improve it for the most common missplelled words your must have collected (and please tell us about that list : i'd examine it statistics-wise and timewise)

  66. Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Every web browser as auto"

    So you failed on your fourth word. Maddening indeed.

    1. Re:Nice by icebike · · Score: 1

      Wasn't misspelled idiot.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  67. range of breadth, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the rule is that I shouldn't ask you what the hell "range of breadth" means? Bummer.

    1. Re:range of breadth, eh? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Well, since you asked, range of breadth is like depth of draft, only horizontally.

      It so happens that the University of Melbourne offers baccalaureate degrees in range of breadth studies. This is apparently better than majoring in one subject while also completing a minor in another subject. Or maybe it has something to do with the flip in the Coriolis effect on that far side of the equator. As you are probably aware by now, I am no expert in these areas.

      --
      Will
  68. versons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well aren't you an idiot.

  69. Simple... by kmoser · · Score: 1

    The author proposes that this consistent increase is the result of Wikipedia contributors using more complex language, which the test is unable to cope with.

    Simple: add something to the test that checks average word and sentence length as a rudimentary way of determine sentence complexity.

  70. Re:Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedi by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    You're right. I'm not in the habit of bookmarking Wikipedia articles I read, nor keeping a running list of ones I attempted to edit. This incident was about three years ago, and I have no idea what article it was I was trying to edit. All I remember was a fairly annoyed feeling, followed by "that's the last time I offer to help."

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  71. Re:Grammar editors like me got scared off Wikipedi by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 1

    Presumably it would be the last, or near to last, edits made before you abandoned your Wikipedia account?

  72. Jackson said it best by azadrozny · · Score: 1

    It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word.

    - Andrew Jackson