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Genetically Modifying Silk Worms For Super Silk

New submitter davidshenba sends this quote from the BBC: "U.S. researchers have created silkworms that are genetically modified to spin much stronger silk (abstract). In weight-for-weight terms, spider silk is stronger than steel. ... Researchers have been trying to reproduce such silk for decades. But it is unfeasible to 'farm' spiders for the commercial production of their silk because the arachnids don't produce enough of it — coupled with their proclivity for eating each other. Silk worms, however, are easy to farm and produce vast amounts of silk — but the material is fragile. Researchers have tried for years to get the best of both worlds — super-strong silk in industrial quantities — by transplanting genes from spiders into worms. But the resulting genetically modified worms have not produced enough spider silk until now. GM worms produced by a team led by Professor Don Jarvis of Wyoming University seem to be producing a composite of worm and spider silk in large amounts — which the researchers say is just as tough as spider silk."

129 comments

  1. I, for one, by zoom-ping · · Score: 3, Funny

    welcome our new super silkworm overlords.

    1. Re:I, for one, by martijnd · · Score: 2

      "It's hard to see how a silkworm producing spider silk would have any advantage in nature," he said.

      You sir, are on to something. This researcher is showing a clear lack of imagination.

    2. Re:I, for one, by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      "It's hard to see how a silkworm producing spider silk would have any advantage in nature," he said.

      You sir, are on to something. This researcher is showing a clear lack of imagination.

      If only it were conductive like mithril.

    3. Re:I, for one, by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      welcome our new super silkworm overlords.

      The spiders won't become overlords (unless the move to Mars) although if bitten by one it could potentially turn you into a comic book superhero.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    4. Re:I, for one, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not worried about the spiders. I'm worried about the silkworms!

    5. Re:I, for one, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a job for SilkwormMan!

    6. Re:I, for one, by crdotson · · Score: 1

      Especially when they use it to build a space elevator!

    7. Re:I, for one, by meerling · · Score: 1

      Just let them complete their metamorphosis into spidermoths and terrorize everyone!
      You thought you had problems with spiders before, NOW THEY CAN FLY!!!

      Yeah, I know, this is total fantasy of the lousiest kind, and probably next months Syfy 'original' movie.

    8. Re:I, for one, by gizmod · · Score: 1

      although if bitten by one it could potentially turn you into a comic book superhero.

      Silkwormman? Somehow that just doesn't sound right.

    9. Re:I, for one, by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Misread summary. I need to stop posting before caffeine.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  2. Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Inside the article there was a mention that the GM silk could post a threat to the environment.

    Call me dense, but I just don't get it.

    We are not talking about something that last forever or what, we are talking about silk - something that is totally biodegradable, and some more, the GM material is a combination of silkworm and spider, both exist in nature.

    Anyhoo, congrats to the scientists who come up with this idea.

    1. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by kodiaktau · · Score: 1

      Probably a general fear like most GM issues today.

    2. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by shione · · Score: 5, Funny

      1. Genetically modified spider escapes into the wild. It mates with other sipders creating a legion of these spiders with super silk. The super silk not only catches normal critters but large animals as well get tangled in the web unable to get out. Hope you all have a Phial from the elves.

      2. New spider silk isn't as sticky as normal spider silk. Spiders die of starvation. Pests grow to plague proportions

      3. Spider spins web in someones doorway. Homeowner is pissed at new wall.

      4. Profit! (GM spider escapes into the wild and mates with spiders in someones backyard. Patent troll finds GM spider and sues homeowner of ip theft and distribution!)

    3. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      That whoosing sound you hear is the joke flying over your head.

    4. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4. Profit! (GM spider escapes into the wild and mates with spiders in someones backyard. Patent troll finds GM spider and sues homeowner of ip theft and distribution!)

      The Monsanto effect! Even though you are only trying to be funny, there probably is some level of truth in this. Good insight!

    5. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      in the case of #2, there will be little issue due to this wonderful thing called "Natural Selection". The nice part is, it works, even on unnatural changes.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    6. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Except the joke was stupid and made no sense in regards to the summary much less the article.

    7. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reading and Comprehension thingy, take 2, or maybe just third grade science. Try:

      2. Silk moths lay eggs, which hatch into silkworms, which then spin their own cocoon before morphing into silk moths.

      Which is about as funny as the GP morphing GM silkworms into spiders so he could make jokes about GM spiders escaping into the wild, and the other AC reply to your post in which the author was in such a big hurry to get his "whoosh" in before anyone else that he wrote "whoosing" instead.

      ROTFLMAO. Er, not!

    8. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably just from people who have been inundated by tent caterpillars, which escaped from a lab and can be seen along many roads..

    9. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. Genetically modified spider escapes into the wild

      They're genetically modifying silk worms, not spiders.

      It mates with other sipders creating a legion of these spiders with super silk.

      The silk is the same silk that spiders produce normally - that's the point.

      New spider silk isn't as sticky as normal spider silk

      Spiders produce two kinds of silk (massive oversimplification). The sticky stuff is relatively weak, the non-sticky stuff is used for structural parts of their webs. Go and poke a spiderweb sometime - you'll find some parts stick to you and tear easily, other parts don't stick and are tougher. Presumably the researchers are trying to make silk worms produce the non-sticky variety, as there is little call for silk that sticks to everything and tears very easily.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The super silk doesn't even catch flies because the flies fail to inside the little cocoons, and because it's no stronger than a spiders web.

      Excellent point and let me elaborate! Since the flies fail to inside the little cocoons, because it's no stronger than a spiders web, we can expect silkworms to enjoy fly free cocoons!

      You sir, are special kind of genius!

    11. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Go and poke a spiderweb sometime

      Yeah, I'll get right on that.

    12. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by RNLockwood · · Score: 1

      1. Genetically modified spider escapes into the wild. It mates with other creating a legion of these spiders with super silk. The super silk not only catches normal critters but large animals as well get tangled in the web unable to get out. Hope you all have a Phial from the elves.

      2. New spider silk isn't as sticky as normal spider silk. Spiders die of starvation. Pests grow to plague proportions

      3. Spider spins web in someones doorway. Homeowner is pissed at new wall.

      4. Profit! (GM spider escapes into the wild and mates with spiders in someones backyard. Patent troll finds GM spider and sues homeowner of ip theft and distribution!)

      You're a genius. Let me try that reading and comprehension thingy...

      • 1. Genetically modified silkworm escapes into the wild. It mates with other silkworms creating a legion of these silkworms with super silk that's almost as strong as spider silk. The super silk doesn't even catch flies because the flies fail to inside the little cocoons, and because it's no stronger than a spiders web.
      • 2. New silkworm silk isn't as sticky as normal silkworm silk. Genetically modifed silkworms lay eggs in silk cocoons that fail to stick together and they all die.
      • 3. The End.

      I was wrong - you're not actually a genius.

      And what the fuck are "sipders" - anal warts from elves?

      Yeah, he missed that. BTW "silk worms" are not worms and can't mate or lay eggs. They are larvae of a moth that feeds on leaves from the mulberry tree. Etc.

      But not all is lost as we now have Frankensilk which, of course, is to be avoided for the same reasons as Frankenfood. Wait, that doesn't sound right. Oh, well might as well post so I can have some morning coffee.

      --
      Nate
    13. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by MrLizard · · Score: 1

      Because.... because SCIENCE, that's why! They're tampering in God's domain! There are things man was not meant to know! If it's not 100% safe, it's 100% dangerous, like fire! Fire bad!

      Get with the program, will you?

    14. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      7 types, sir!

      Also, there is much variation between types of spiders with Darwin's Bark spider having the strongest silk of all (drag-line silk from the major ampullate gland)!

      And the biggest research that needs to be done is in microfluidics because it's the pH, tension, and hydration status of silk dope that determine the properties of the fibers (those three affect the folding/alignment motifs that make up the super-structure. Spiders regulate this by the speed at which they pull the silk from their spinnarettes. A stupid silk worm will never be able to match this (they naturally make a triangular fiber, whereas a spider's is round). We're trying to put silk worm genes into corn and other crap, but bacterial cell factories produce the proteins efficiently already.

    15. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. Sad to see my post with its oversimplification warning sitting at +5 while this one with a much better explanation is at 0.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    16. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, I'll get right on that.

      Did you people never have childhoods?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    17. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

      Silk worms don't lay eggs in cocoons. They are butterfly larvae and the silk is used to build their coccoon, from which they hatch as butterflies.

      --
      I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    18. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ummmm...no.

      GM is not thought of by it's detractors as SCIENCE, but as CORPORATE. GM's enemies are entirely on the Left at the moment. If it's not 100% free, it's 100% profit, and all profit is THEFT!! Oh, and it's probably bad if it escapes from the lab too.Yeah, that.

    19. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by silentbrad · · Score: 2

      Moths, actually. And apparently, they can't reproduce without human intervention.

    20. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      And what the fuck are "sipders"

      SIPDER (n): A typographical error in teh comment.

    21. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably the researchers are trying to make silk worms produce the non-sticky variety, as there is little call for silk that sticks to everything and tears very easily.

      I don't know about that... Tamper-evident tape?

    22. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      BTW "silk worms" are not worms and can't mate or lay eggs.

      They (the moth) do lay eggs - allthough it might not be immediately obvious. One of my grandkids tried to tell me butterflies laid pupae. (sigh)

      we now have Frankensilk

      Dont' forget the Chihuahuas - just because because we don't like the outcomes doesn't mean they're wrong. Sometimes the criteria might be suspect Nihlists probably thing Franken$whatever isn't going far enough, and who knows what the white mice think...

    23. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      And what the fuck are "sipders"

      SIPDER (n): A typographical error in teh comment.

      No-o - tell me it ain't so. Surely it's a collection of ITF VOIP connection errors.

    24. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by meerling · · Score: 1

      I was about to post that you'd completely missed the target since it's about Silkworms, and not spiders, but you're probably getting enough flak as is, and besides, our jokes aren't any better than your tired old meme.

    25. Re:Why is there any concern about GM silk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're trying to put silk worm genes into corn and other crap, but bacterial cell factories produce the proteins efficiently already.
      should read:
      We're trying to put SPIDER SILK genes into corn and other crap, but bacterial cell factories produce the proteins efficiently already.

  3. Did anyone else read the headline.. by neokushan · · Score: 2
    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
    1. Re:Did anyone else read the headline.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd rather not click a link on slashdot that contains the word lemon.

  4. Stuck on you. by shione · · Score: 1

    Will this make a shirt that only I will be able to wear and if someone tries to steal it it sticks to their hand like the anti theft ink found in department stores?

    1. Re:Stuck on you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I can run around the mall slapping people and ripping their designer clothes off? That sounds kind of fun!

      I mean, I guess I could do that now, but I think the message behind it would be lost...

    2. Re:Stuck on you. by shione · · Score: 1

      Just hope that it doesn't extend to the costume industry. It might mean the end to all Santa Claus's.

    3. Re:Stuck on you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Very astute. There are 10's or 1000's of examples if you just think about it. I got a's in school, by the way.

  5. Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by Arancaytar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then everything will be fine.

    1. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by kiehlster · · Score: 1

      But if Peter Parker doesn't get the bite, someone else will, and then we won't have Spiderman. We'll have Silkwormman. And that just sounds disgusting.

    2. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      More disgusting than Spiderman? In case you haven't noticed, spiders spin silk out of their ass, not their forearms. I for one don't welcome our new crotchless superhero overlords.

    3. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      The "Venture Bros." gave attention to that detail. Watch The Brown Widow in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o12YySfp25A

    4. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tarantulas spin silk out of their limbs.

    5. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      I always wondered why Peter Parker never developed 4 more limbs, or at the very least, 6 more eyes. Mary Jane would've just loved that.

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    6. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      At one point he did develop into a more spiderlike creature, but Dr. Lizardman developed a serum that would halt his genetic mutation. Spiderman even grew a big giant spider head with 8 eyes. Freaky looking.

    7. Re:Just keep Peter Parker out of that lab by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1
  6. Submitter did NOT RTFA by Magada · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actual quote from the actual fine article:

    their eventual aim is to produce silk from worms that has the toughness of spider silk.

    --
    Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    1. Re:Submitter did NOT RTFA by JimWise · · Score: 2

      Commenter did NOT RTFFA (Read The Full Fine/F*cking Article):

      Smack dab in the middle of the article is the actual quote:

      GM worms produced by a team led by Professor Don Jarvis of Wyoming University seem to be producing a composite of worm and spider silk in large amounts - which the researchers say is just as tough as spider silk.

    2. Re:Submitter did NOT RTFA by Magada · · Score: 1

      What he said, basically.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    3. Re:Submitter did NOT RTFA by JimWise · · Score: 1

      You are complaining that the submitter did not read the BBC article, when everything in the submission is taken directly from the article. Even the scientific abstract itself states:

      Furthermore, these composite fibers were, on average, tougher than the parental silkworm silk fibers and as tough as native dragline spider silk fibers.

      Now you use someone else's post for your support, which refers to tables and figures that I do not see in the BBC article, and not even in the scientific abstract. You have to pay to access the full scientific paper since it is not in print yet, which I suppose is where the table mentioned is located.

      It is well and good to point out that the scientific results may not be as strong as what the BBC article makes it out to be, but claiming that the submitter did not read the full BBC article was a (presumably) false statement and did not point to anything that showed why the claim of the strength of the modified silk worms was incorrect.

    4. Re:Submitter did NOT RTFA by Magada · · Score: 1

      Had you yourself read the fine article, you would have seen that the claim in the title is significantly watered down, by this statement, uttered by someone who actually read the fine scientific paper, presumably:

      Commenting on the work, Dr Christopher Holland from the University of Oxford, said that the development represented a step toward being able to produce toughened silk commercially.

      "Essentially, what this paper has shown is that they are able to take a component of spider silk and make a silkworm spin it into a fibre alongside its own silk," he said.
      [...]
      They have also managed to show that this composite, which contains bits of spider silk and mainly the silkworms' own silk, has improved mechanical properties."

      formatting mine

      lrn2 reading comprehension, iow

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
  7. More details around this spider silk by kodiaktau · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wonder if this is a part of an lead-in on the research.

    Looks like WYU is sitting on a ton of patents around spider silk technologies.

    Nicer pictures of this article can be found at http://inhabitat.com/genetically-modified-silkworms-spin-super-strong-spider-silk-for-bandages-and-bulletproof-vests/

  8. GM silkworm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just imagine - a silk shirt that will last forever....

    while scientist is playing god with silkworm, maybe they can do something about insects that eat corn/etc (see http://news.sudanvisiondaily.com/details.html?rsnpid=204319)

    1. Re:GM silkworm by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's also interesting for things that are only partly silk. Pashmina wool comes from the underside of the chin of the nepalese goat and is amazingly soft, but very fragile. You can't make things from it if you want to be able to wear them more than once, so you mix in some silk to add strength[1], but the more silk you add the more of the softness and warmth you lose. Stronger silk would mean that you could weave fabrics with a very small amount of silk and a lot of something softer.

      [1] It amused me to see street sellers in NYC advertising pashmina shawls as '50% silk!' as if that was a good thing. The high quality ones are at most 20% silk. The silk is a lot cheaper than the wool.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:GM silkworm by PPH · · Score: 1

      Just imagine - silk sheets in prison that are strong enough to tie together and climb out of your cell window.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:GM silkworm by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Funny

      It amused me to see street sellers in NYC advertising pashmina shawls as '50% silk!' as if that was a good thing.

      Amazing, since otherwise they seem like the kind of people you can trust.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:GM silkworm by wienerschnizzel · · Score: 1

      The point was they went with the wrong number because they didn't know any better. That's amusing. If they actually bumped up the number because they thought pashmina shawls with only 30% silk wouldn't sell as well, that would be hilarious.

    5. Re:GM silkworm by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I got your joke... I just thought it was funny because I lived there and those guys were always so S-H-A-D-Y. :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  9. Goats? by Rytr23 · · Score: 2

    I thought they were putting those spider genes into goats years ago to have them spin the super silk instead of milk. I guess that went nowhere.. I would have liked to seen some goat-spider beast running around...

    --
    So many injustices..so little time..
    1. Re:Goats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smells like a cyriak animation waiting to happen.

    2. Re:Goats? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      I thought they were putting those spider genes into goats years ago to have them spin the super silk instead of milk. I guess that went nowhere.. I would have liked to seen some goat-spider beast running around...

      I think they switched to pigs when the Simpsons movie came out. Sure, pigs produce nowhere near as much milk, and they've had to throw out years of research with goat DNA, but a spiderpig is just so much cooler.

    3. Re:Goats? by sirdude · · Score: 2

      That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. The goats were engineered to produce milk with high quantities of protein found in spider silk.

      P.S. It's a pity that the BBC has to stoop to sensationalising their headlines. "GM silk worms make Spider-Man web closer to reality"? Twits.

    4. Re:Goats? by sirdude · · Score: 2

      ...and I forgot to mention that the Goat story also came from UW. Presumably it's the same group involved.

    5. Re:Goats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LMGTFY: That was Nexia Biotech, and apparently they never really made the process work. They did not have any significant on-going operations when they were acquired by a Chinese company in 2009.

    6. Re:Goats? by tempest69 · · Score: 1

      Nope, different research groups that were in the same wing. The spider goat guy (Randy Lewis) is more of a protein researcher. Don Jarvis (spider silkworm) studies sugar additions to proteins, insects have some interesting gylcosylation pathways. Getting genes to stay in silkworms is not as easy as one would expect at first glance.

  10. I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome our new Spider-Worm Overlords.

  11. now my underwear won't tear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when da bitches try to rip em off me.

    1. Re:now my underwear won't tear by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Funny

      when da bitches try to rip em off me.

      The problem is that loose thread was like a cheese wire and it ripped your dick off

  12. Re:Strong silk is strong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Alas the Japanese Porn industry will have to resort to cheap chinese low thread count microfiber(AKA Plastic) panties for their clothing ripping fetish. Cheap strong silk panties just won't do.

  13. Please excuse me some SMAC by arcite · · Score: 2

    I have to upgrade my hovertank to silksteel armor, Yang won't know what hit him!!

    1. Re:Please excuse me some SMAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your thermal boreholes are causing the spider-silk worms to breed out of control!

  14. Note to self... by enaso1970 · · Score: 1

    ...go home and invent new brand of steel bristle feather dusters for when these critters escape.

  15. Is this biopiracy? by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope the Chinese get the credit for the original silkworm genes

    1. Re:Is this biopiracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No..copyright on them expired since it was a Byzantine monk that stole some silkworm eggs in the 6th century.

    2. Re:Is this biopiracy? by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      Roughly the same credit Iraqis get for Wheat.

    3. Re:Is this biopiracy? by sponse · · Score: 1

      Shhhh... Don't say that at loud or we end up with some kind of GRM (Genetic Rigths Managment) .

    4. Re:Is this biopiracy? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because they're really strict about international copyrights and patents.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  16. Meaning of GM by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Now I understand why that GM beats me at Chess all the time. He's genetically modified :-)

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  17. I want . . . by indytx · · Score: 1

    NPR had a fascinating story a couple of years ago about a spider silk tapestry that had been woven. NPR.org Fabric as soft as silk but stronger than steel, the possibilities are fascinating even if I have to wait a while to have a "that guy" suit made out of the stuff.

    --
    Make love, not reality television.
  18. Don't genetically modified silkworms... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    ... feel pain @ being boiled alive for their silk to be of any use? Or is this new silk so sturdy that the worms can't gnaw thru them, and that after the silk is unravelled, they are then free to become cocoons and whatever insect they develop into.

    More to the point, can't better silk be synthetically produced on a large scale? Same question applies for other animal based textiles, such as wool, leather, fur, etc

    1. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by cmdr_tofu · · Score: 1

      Yeah silk is not very animal-friendly and vegans do avoid it. Unfortunately, this may not be a concern to the non-animal-rights-minded majority.

      Even if I was an animal-eater, I still would not like the idea of genetically modifying insects. I know that in this area of CT the mulberry trees were destroyed by introduction of silkworms. Who knows what consequences introduction of a modified silkworm could have? Also I'm scared of killer bees. What are the potential risks of GMO silkworms gone wrong?

    2. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More to the point, can't better silk be synthetically produced on a large scale?

      Let's think this through for a minute––

      If they could synth spider silk on any scale, would anyone be pursuing this? Whadayathink?

      Sorry to be so harsh, but honestly, I think you could have looked this up yourself. Spider Silk, and in particular, dragline silk, the strong, resilient, non-sticky stuff, is chemically very complex. A lot of biological stuff is complex enough that we can't just whip them up in a lab. Things like artificial kidneys and livers, eyes, etc. – we have to "grow" real ones in a dish.

      Same thing with spider silk.

      Just saying'

    3. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by dkf · · Score: 2

      I know that in this area of CT the mulberry trees were destroyed by introduction of silkworms.

      You are aware that mulberry trees are the natural habitat of silkworms? They're specialists and don't live on anything else. Moreover, it sounds like before that there was relatively little predation upon those trees, allowing them to get much larger and more common than would normally happen. Because of that, what you had there was a classic case of what happens when a predator species is introduced into a prey-rich environment. It happens.

      --
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    4. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Zaldarr · · Score: 1

      I can't answer the question about weather the silk is resilient enough for this to happen, I think the point is moot. Whilst vertebrates I believe should be treated humanely in regards to pain, the jury is still out on invertebrates feeling traditional sensations of pain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_invertebrates In any case, it is certainly possible to produce such a thing as synthetic animal-textiles, the economic fact is that at present, it is far cheaper and efficient to just farm the animals in question en masse. Although, such research into this area would be very helpful indeed.

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      I write professional videogame reviews! http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/
    5. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      More to the point, can't better silk be synthetically produced on a large scale? Same question applies for other animal based textiles, such as wool, leather, fur, etc

      The answer to your question is "No".

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes lets all sit inside caves and not try any new stuff for fear of everything...

      Please castrate yourself and everyone related to you, you stupid mutt.

    7. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know that in this area of CT the mulberry trees were destroyed by introduction of silkworms.

      You are aware that mulberry trees are the natural habitat of silkworms? They're specialists and don't live on anything else. Moreover, it sounds like before that there was relatively little predation upon those trees, allowing them to get much larger and more common than would normally happen. Because of that, what you had there was a classic case of what happens when a predator species is introduced into a prey-rich environment. It happens.

      Wow!

      Mulberry trees were introduced into the US to feed the silkworms that were introduced to the US to help the flagging textile industry in New England. Both mulberries, and the silkworm moth (Gypsy Moth) escaped, and are now a scourge on the entire east coast of the US.

    8. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      "More to the point, can't better silk be synthetically produced on a large scale? Same question applies for other animal based textiles, such as wool, leather, fur, etc"
      No.
      and no.
      next question?
      Okay lets get a little real here.
      1. leather. leather has some qualities that are not found in any other material. It is required for motorcycle racers to wear because it offers the best protection. Nothing man made can replace it. Also most leather is a by product of animals being killed for meat. Exceptions are for some of the exotics which if you want to boycot be my guest as they are nothing but an ego trip. So as long as people eat meat using the leather from that does not contribute to any suffering.
      2. Wool. Sheep don't die to get wool folks. As far as I know sheep raised for wool are protected, feed, and cared for by humans. It is an actual advantage for the Sheep and is an almost symbiotic relationship. So what is wrong with wool?
      3. Fur. Well unless you live in the arctic I see no reason to wear it. So boycot that all you want.
      Silk! if we could make it we would. So no there is no better way. Besides they are just bugs. Sorry folks but if you kill flys, ants, and roaches then you really shouldn't have an issue with this.
      I do not like "factory farms" and other forms of animal cruelty but when you go too far in your objections it marginalizes the argument. AKA Wool.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    9. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mulberry trees were introduced into the US to feed the silkworms that were introduced to the US to help the flagging textile industry in New England. Both mulberries, and the silkworm moth (Gypsy Moth) escaped, and are now a scourge on the entire east coast of the US.

      No.

      The Silkworm moth is not the same as a Gypsy moth. Silkworm moth is Bombyx Mori, Gypsy moth is Lymantria Dispar.

      The silkworm larvae look nothing like the furry caterpillar of the Gypsy moth. Silkworms eat Mulberry leaves, Furry caterpillars eat oak and other hardwood leaves.

      Gypsy moths and furry caterpillars are the scourge of the east coast right now because they are killing the oaks.

      Ironically, Gypsy moths were imported to New England by someone trying to create a silk moth hybrid that would be more resistant to disease and the Gypsy moths escaped into the wild. Old school GM I guess.

    10. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      What? Gypsy Moth is Lymantria dispar. Silk worm is Bombyx mori. There are many types of mulberry, and while I'm sure the others have been introduced, there is a species of mulberry tree native to CT.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    11. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by AdrianKemp · · Score: 1

      I'd add a little note to your 1: Nothing we currently produce economically replaces 100% of the effectiveness of leather for motorcycle gear.

      There are most certainly replacements available that are good, though quite objectively not as good.

      There are also various things that can replace leather for that purpose that are simply far to expensive (on the order of 100x the cost of a leather suit).

      Your point is valid but I wasn't happy with your wording of it; I fully support the continued pursuit of entirely artificial armor because it will eventually be cheaper and better (I'm more interested in better than I am cheaper).

    12. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I frankly do not think anything is as good. The combination of abrasion resistance and flexibility of leather I feel is unmatched at this time. Maybe someday but not today.
      For many riders ballistic nylon and kevlar are a good substitute. For road riding possibly better than leather at least in hot weather. But for racing leather is still the best choice.
      I don't know of anything even at 100x the cost that beats leather in that application.
      I also don't have a problem with using leather since it would otherwise go to waste. Now things like aligator and snake skin are not the leather I am talking about. However if you are going to eat the animal it is only right to use as much of it as possible IMHO and to not waste any of it.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    13. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      Alligators are eaten on a large scale in the United States. Not much of an alligator goes to waste. Alligator can be bought at the local grocery store. Nothing wrong with alligator leather if you're worrying about it not being a side product.

      Snakes can be eaten, I've never seen snake on the menu in the United States (I'm sure someone, somewhere has), but I do know some people that kill and eat rattlesnakes locally. I've never had it, but it's like the old saying, Tastes like Chicken. Personally I leave snakes alone, and they leave me alone. I imagine all species of snakes can be eaten, but again I've never seen it on a large scale.

    14. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by tempest69 · · Score: 1

      Oddly spinning silk is tough to do from proteins. Even if you extract the goo from inside the spider and try to spin it- it's a mediocre fiber. Synthetic leather is a ways off. There isn't a compelling reason to make synthetic wool, as current wool is made without all of the industrial waste of nylon, and comes in significant quantities, and it's a fine renewable.

      We spray a whole lot of insecticide, killing a whole lot more bugs just for cotton, and those insects feel pain. If we decide that were going to be nice to nature, it is going to bite us back or were going to have to be hypocrites about it. I understand the concept of not hurting bugs, but It isn't realistic. Insects are everywhere, and killing them is part of getting what we need. Bedbugs and lice are drowned by the millions in hotel washers every day.

      Bugs are important to the environment, but we cant worry about their pain.

    15. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Yeah silk is not very animal-friendly and vegans do avoid it. Unfortunately, this may not be a concern to the non-animal-rights-minded majority.

      I am an unapologetic omnivore. I have killed animals, then eaten them. I don't like to see higher animals like mammals or birds suffer and would like the chickens I eat to be treated humanely before they're killed. But unlike Bhuddists, I have no problem with swatting a fly, nor do I have a problem with boiling insect larvae. I'd say fortunately the insect rights kooks like you are a tiny, tiny monority and we aren't about to let your insanities sway us.

    16. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, this may not be a concern to the non-animal-rights-minded majority.

      That's, fortunately.

    17. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Gypsy Moth is Lymantria dispar. Silk worm is Bombyx mori. There are many types of mulberry, and while I'm sure the others have been introduced, there is a species of mulberry tree native to CT.

      From Wikipedia:
      "The gypsy moth was introduced into the United States in 1868 by a French scientist, Leopold Trouvelot, living in Medford, Massachusetts. The native silk spinning caterpillars were proving to be susceptible to disease so Trouvelot brought over gypsy moth eggs to try to make a caterpillar hybrid, that could resist diseases. When some of the moths escaped from his lab, they found suitable habitat and started to multiply. The gypsy moth is now one of the most destructive pests of hardwood trees in the eastern United States; it and other foliage-eating pests cause an estimated $868 million in annual damages in the U.S.[1]"

      The high quality Aisian silkworms introduced into the US prefer the white mulberry tree as their food source (over the native red Mulberry). As a result, the white mulberry was introduced into the US to feed the silkworms.

      Both the gypsy moths, and the white mulberry got loose, and are now listed as invasive species that are wreaking extreme amounts of damage across the eastern US.

    18. Re:Don't genetically modified silkworms... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Thanks for finding the story, but just because some crazy man imported gypsy moths to try and make new silk worms does not mean that gypsy moths are silkworms!

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  19. In weight-for-weight terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Pound-for-pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on Earth.

  20. Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    it is unfeasible to 'farm' spiders for the commercial production of their silk because the arachnids don't produce enough of it

    These spiders obviously need a harsh lesson about the economic climate we live in. They're never going to produce enough if you just get some other creatures to make it instead. Rank all the spiders by silk production, fire the ones at the bottom of the list. Things'll soon turn around.

    coupled with their proclivity for eating each other

    That's actually a good sign. A little healthy competitive pressure.

    1. Re:Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rank all the spiders by silk production, fire the ones at the bottom of the list. Things'll soon turn around.

      I hear Mitt Romney's got time on his hand, and he has lots of experience doing this.

      (Now watch one of Mitt's fanbois mod this down. Go ahead, it just prove how close to the mark I am. ;-))

    2. Re:Management by tempest69 · · Score: 1

      They can also eat spider silk like cotton candy, so even if they overproduce, they'll just chew up the profits.

  21. baseline in figures by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    I hate it when it's not clear from the figure or table which of the data refer to the baseline. For those who are interested, dragline is the base.

    I do not get it. According to Table 1, modified fiber is 3 times thicker and have worse values???

    For example, break stress of dragline is 658 MJ/m3, while the rest is at least 2 times less.

    Maximum strain is better for modified, but what's the point of it? Who needs their silk stretched?

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    1. Re:baseline in figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the same people that need 18" saddles for their guided hunting trips

  22. Plot device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I see an upcoming SyFy 'original' movie on the way.

  23. I was bitten by one. by Maintenance+Goof · · Score: 2

    Now I have worm senses.

    1. Re:I was bitten by one. by GonzoPhysicist · · Score: 1

      might be useful on Arrakis

      --
      horror vacui
  24. The Worst of Both Worlds by fedos · · Score: 1

    They should try giving the silkworms the spiders' proclivity for eating each other.

  25. no not more GMO's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one would never eat GMO silkworms.
    Who knows what kind of problems that could cause.
    I will stick to eating regular silkworms Thank you very much.

  26. Last time I checked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Silk is a little bit more expensive than wool. It's probably far off still, but I'm waiting for sheep with a silk coat instead of a woolen one. Then a few years after that, everyone will be wearing bulletproof clothing.

  27. No spider farms? Great. by Vyse+of+Arcadia · · Score: 3, Funny

    I am extremely ok with spider farming being infeasible. Accidentally wandering into a spider farm is the stuff of nightmares.

    1. Re:No spider farms? Great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poor diddums, mommy didn't wrap you up at night.

  28. Company sponsoring research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article makes little mention of the company that paid for most of the research at Notre Dame and the University of Wyoming, Kraig Biocraft Laboratories (KBLB).

  29. Next on SyFy by Brainman+Khan · · Score: 1

    SpiderMoth, Followed by Attack of the MothSpiders, and Gargantua Spider Moth vs Monstrous Moth Spider

  30. Dune... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THE SILK MUST FLOW!

  31. To think.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. that I saw it eating my neighbors on Mulberry Street.

  32. Nexia by Baby+Duck · · Score: 2

    I used to own stock in Nexia Biotechnologies, a Canadian company. The goats weren't the problem. Extracting the silk proteins from the milk weren't the problem. Spinning the proteins into silk strands were the problem!

    Many of the same proposed applications of the spider silk biosteel could also be fulfilled by nanotubes, but nanotubes would be even stronger. During the same time period that Nexia was improving its spinning process, several companies were making breakthroughs with nanotube manufacturing so that the price per inch would dramatically fall. Nexia saw the writing on the wall. Someone, somewhere, would make cheap nanotubes of appreciable lengths well before Nexia could make a competing offering.

    There's also the debacle of Nexia vs. the FDA. Nexia argued that since their silks were natural substances, they didn't need stringent safety testing for applications such as medical sutures. The FDA agreed so Nexia pushed ahead with their next stages of research. Down the road, the FDA changed their mind. Nexia didn't have the capital to afford all the testing trials the FDA was now demanding.

    Well before the Chinese company acquired Nexia, Nexia sold most of its intellectual property to an American company (in Virginia? Wyoming?). The bulk of that IP is proven counter-agents to certain chemical warfare attacks.

    Interestingly, Nexia was trying to splice spider silk DNA into plants. Grow them as a crop. Grind up their leaves. Sift out the proteins. But then you're still stuck with the underwhelming spinning process.

    --

    "Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins

  33. dead end.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    evolutionarily speaking, silk worm silk has to be weaker, the pupated animal has to be able to break out at the end..
    if it can't, the genetic line won't last long..

  34. I geeky question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I just have to strap silk worms to my wrists?

  35. dafdsafdsafdsafsad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One
    NHL jerseys The Sabres will hang onto the alternate sweater they introduced this season as part of their 40th anniversary celebration.
    Though nothing is changing, I thought it worth mentioning here as some thought perhaps the NFL jerseys would be worn only this season and then retired. In fact, it seems the royal blue will hang around at least one more year. Possibly longer.
    Also, the jersey does feature the throwback Sabres logo with their founding year, 1970, set inside. This was used as the team's 40th anniversary mark but it's not specific to this year, which means it's likely to stay on the sweater.
    It goes without saying, but Buffalo's home and road uniforms will also stay the same for 2011-12. Overall, this might be the best set of sweaters in the MLB jerseys . And it's all because they're paying attention to their past.

    Two
    Apparently the Kings intend to toss out everything and go back to the drawing board in 2011. Wow.
    Actually, if I'm being honest this complete reboot wasn't entirely unforeseen. The team NBA jerseys has been dropping hints over the past year. For example, the players opted to wear the black third jerseys throughout their 2010 playoff run. And the throwback launched this season is very popular among fans.
    Not only that, but Icethetics reported in October on photos of possible jersey prototypes seen in Luc Robitaille's office at the Kings' practice facility. They are essentially white versions of the current third jersey (right).
    Kings throwback jersey / from Getty ImagesSo if I had to guess, the crown logo along with the black and purple sweaters will disappear. Replacing them will be the LA shield logo along with black and white Football jerseys . And as for the third, obviously the purple and gold throwback is the front-runner.
    And that suspicion just got a little more meat on it last night when the Kings added nameplates to those cheap jerseys . Surnames are a league requirement on uniforms, but they got away without them for opening night against the Canucks as they were celebrating the 40th anniversary of their first meeting — which was at a time when jerseys didn't have nameplates.
    So now this is a complete uniform and it looks phenomenal. Fans like it and there's no reason not to keep it around. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how things shake out for the Kings next season. Black and white regular unis and very colorful thirds.
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  36. Biowarefare by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    1) Create super genetically enhanced silkworms. Patent it!
    2) Allow Super Silkworms (TM) to out compete and kill off all other silkworms.
    3) Sue into oblivion anyone using your patent.
    4) Profit!

    Bioengineering/Patenting is like the (only) perfect business model, whereby your actual product will actively kill off your competition for you, so you profit twice, once on the actual product, and twice legally when you are the only game in town!