Intel-Powered Smartphones Arriving Soon

You haven't entered the market by symbolset · 2012-01-11 05:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

You haven't entered the market until the phones are available at retail. I would like to see this, but it hasn't happened yet and the announcement is premature.

I would like to see these phones on sale in the US. It would probably be my next phone, as I'm due for one in the fall.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:You haven't entered the market by DragonWriter · 2012-01-11 05:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

You haven't entered the market until the phones are available at retail.
If the market at issue is the retail market for cellphones, there might be some validity to that. The market Intel is actually entering is the market for supplying processors to smartphone manufacturers, which they've entered as soon as they have a product available for those manufacturers to order.
Re:You haven't entered the market by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:38 · Score: 0, Informative

Intel supplies chips, not phones. Intel is now selling their chips to smartphone manufacturers, meaning they are in the smartphone chip supply market.
Re:You haven't entered the market by ackthpt · 2012-01-11 05:51 · Score: 1

You haven't entered the market until the phones are available at retail. I would like to see this, but it hasn't happened yet and the announcement is premature.
I would like to see these phones on sale in the US. It would probably be my next phone, as I'm due for one in the fall.
As far as I'm concerned, it's like announcing yet another car which runs on gas.
Processors .. woop de doo. Better operating systems / apps are more important (plus compatibility to standards)

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Re:You haven't entered the market by gregrah · 2012-01-11 06:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Agreed that Intel entering the smartphone market is not going to have the same impact on smartphone users as the announcement of a new or improved OS, for example. However, as consumers we are all likely to benefit from the competition.

As an Intel shareholder, though, I am very excited by this announcement.
Re:You haven't entered the market by poetmatt · 2012-01-11 06:40 · Score: 1

Of course. This is the "marketing" and hype part of the process: announcing the product months before it's even available.
Intel really really hopes they can enter this strongly, the reality is that the atom processors are not going to compete well with android as they aren't even going to be compatible with apps out the door (as apps aren't all programmed for x86).
Had Intel actually used the arm license they themselves purchased, that would have been a wiser decision.
Re:You haven't entered the market by Mister+Whirly · 2012-01-11 07:11 · Score: 2

Funny, that used to be the thinking at Apple until they switched to Intel chips. Then suddenly their machines were running circles around the old Power PC chips that had been previously touted as superior to Intel's chips.

--
"But this one goes to 11!"
Re:You haven't entered the market by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-01-11 07:16 · Score: 0

However, as consumers we are all likely to benefit from the increased power consumption.
There, thats fixed it for you.

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:You haven't entered the market by wed128 · 2012-01-11 07:32 · Score: 4, Informative

Most android apps are java; very few use any arm-specific code at all. They should run fine on android-x86 (which exists already BTW)
Re:You haven't entered the market by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:51 · Score: 0

With all these manufacturers deliberately lo-jacking all of their devices, the only thing about the North American release will be that this one will be a doozy.
Re:You haven't entered the market by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:01 · Score: 0

Well, to be fair, introducing a Medfield-powered phone is like announcing a car that runs on a gallon of gas per minute with performance only marginally better than every other car on the road, if the specs we saw last month are any indication.
It may not be useful, but certainly newsworthy.
Re:You haven't entered the market by tsotha · 2012-01-11 08:57 · Score: 2

When Intel moves to 14 nm in 2014 will their offerings be using more power? Seems unlikely. Intel doesn't need the best architecture if it can stay ahead of its rivals in manufacturing.
Re:You haven't entered the market by sapgau · 2012-01-11 09:46 · Score: 1

So there is no more improvement available for processors?
Moore's Law be damned!
Re:You haven't entered the market by sapgau · 2012-01-11 09:48 · Score: 0

True, mod parent up.
+1
Re:You haven't entered the market by phorm · 2012-01-11 10:30 · Score: 1

Maybe if we're lucky, any innovations that Intel makes (or buys) in order to produce high-power-output low-power-consumption smartphones will also make its way back into the PC market.
Re:You haven't entered the market by exomondo · 2012-01-11 13:41 · Score: 2

However, as consumers we are all likely to benefit from the increased power consumption.
There, thats fixed it for you.
No, no you didn't.
Re:You haven't entered the market by baka_toroi · 2012-01-13 04:52 · Score: 1

Not to mention that on 2013 Atom's are supposed to undergo a new "tock" (Architecture redesign)

Too late by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:26 · Score: 0

Intel are way too late to this party. The whole mobile and world is ARM at this point, and the ecosystem has been built around it. Trotting out something that is essentially a decade old core and trying to get hardware and software developer to switch is fun to watch, but probably rather pointless now.

Re:Too late by Guspaz · 2012-01-11 06:43 · Score: 2, Informative

For the most part, they don't need to. Android has already been ported, and 75% of the apps for Android are written with the standard SDK, meaning they're cross-platform Java applets.
That leaves the 25% of remaining apps that are written with the NDK. Of those, most can be recompiled by the developer with minimal effort (the NDK supports building for x86 or ARM, and most apps wouldn't require any changes to recompile). Of those that can't, or aren't, Intel is going to be supplying binary translation software (read: emulation). That part won't run all that great, but it will run.
Basically, the point is that Android is particularly well-suited to switching between architectures because not much of it (or its apps) is architecture-dependent.

Another Headache by na1led · 2012-01-11 05:27 · Score: 1

Great, another CPU for developers to deal with. This is why we have issues with compatibility between different devices. If they stick to Windows Platform then fine, but don't mess with Android - Please!

--
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.

Re:Another Headache by Trepidity · 2012-01-11 05:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

I agree it adds an extra headache for developers, but I like multiple platforms conceptually, because it's an acid-test way of keeping developers from accidentally drifting into platform assumptions that they aren't really supposed to be making, and which will complicate things later. Sometimes even helps find bugs; back when they were more active (and still to some extent), the Debian ports to non-x86 platforms frequently helped uncover latent bugs that were just infrequently triggered on x86 for various coincidental reasons.

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Re:Another Headache by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-01-11 06:49 · Score: 1

Why do you care about CPU architecture? If you write proper C/C++ code, you won't care because it's already portable, and is just a recompile away.
Re:Another Headache by the+linux+geek · 2012-01-11 07:34 · Score: 1

You mean loading up my codebase with #ifdefs to get around bullshit like endianness and integer length? "C/C++ is portable" is a myth.
Re:Another Headache by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-01-11 07:39 · Score: 1

Integer length? #include <stdint.h> and use int32_t etc. Has been around for ages.
As for endianness, why do you care? For networking there's ntoh* and hton*. For everything else, it shouldn't matter unless you're using dirty hacks like reinterpret_cast where you shouldn't be (i.e. where the language spec says that the result is undefined behavior).
C/C++ is perfectly portable if you know how it works. It's easy to write code that's U.B. per spec (and non-portable in practice), yes, but you as a programmer should know when you're doing it - and don't do it, unless you're writing some really low-level code where it's necessary (kernel, device drivers etc). Such code shouldn't be needed in an Android app.

one of those it's called K800 ... by itsme1234 · 2012-01-11 05:29 · Score: 1

... and there are a couple videos with it already where it runs some kind of (rather unresponsive) android.
I hope it's easy/possible to make it run whatever x86 OS you please.

Re:one of those it's called K800 ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:37 · Score: 0

I'm eagerly waiting for the T-800 s to come out to play.

what kind of power draw? by Trepidity · 2012-01-11 05:31 · Score: 3, Interesting

Have they been able to get into power-draw ranges that'd make the battery life compatible with ARM-based devices?

--
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10

Re:what kind of power draw? by neelwebs · 2012-01-11 05:39 · Score: 3, Informative

I read on Anandtech that the power draw is comparable to ARM-based devices. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones
Re:what kind of power draw? by jmorris42 · 2012-01-11 05:46 · Score: 1

That is their claim in the graphs in the article. Graphs that don't mention which competing devices are being compared and which have no numbers. But they are claiming to be middle of the pack in idle power consumption, which has always been the fatal flaw in x86 mobile devices until now. If they have really managed to get an x86 to idle at a couple of milliamps of current then they are probably in the hunt. If not, it is all bogus like an x86 tablet. Who wants a phone you have to charge daily even if you don't call or even light up the display? It is all about idle time with these more mobile devices, not how many HD frames you can push for the hour or so the battery can hold up.

--
Democrat delenda est
Re:what kind of power draw? by BasilBrush · 2012-01-11 05:57 · Score: 2

Even if that's the case, comparable isn't enough. To inspire a switch of platform requires a generational improvement in something.
Re:what kind of power draw? by symbolset · 2012-01-11 06:02 · Score: 2

Well they claim "full buzzword compliance" and wireless display - which is a big add for me. That would be everything and something more. It should be interesting.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:what kind of power draw? by fnj · 2012-01-11 06:30 · Score: 1

If 70% more power draw than an iPhone 4S playing back 720p was "comparable", I might be impressed.
Re:what kind of power draw? by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-11 06:47 · Score: 1

Being an x86 CPU the performance should be better. Better performance at the same power draw? Sounds like an advantage. Although 2Ghz dual-core ARM CPUs are coming out now so it might not be that much.
What I'm looking forward to is the modding potential of portable devices running Win8. It's a regular x86 OS, so it should be pretty easy to install Linux on these things, more specifically Maemo, the best portable device OS ever! :D

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:what kind of power draw? by Colonel+Korn · 2012-01-11 08:09 · Score: 1

The phones in the article are HTC Sensation, Motorola Droid 3, iPhone 4S, LG Optimus 2X and Samsung Galaxy S 2.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones
x86 is offering more performance per watt than ARM, though by no more than a factor of 2.

--
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:what kind of power draw? by Colonel+Korn · 2012-01-11 08:12 · Score: 2

If 70% more power draw than an iPhone 4S playing back 720p was "comparable", I might be impressed.
And the same source giving you that number says that iPhone 4S uses 30% more power for web browsing, which is far more common on a phone. 4S also uses more than twice as much power (111% more) when in standby and 14% more power when talking over 3G. Now are you impressed?

--
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:what kind of power draw? by asliarun · 2012-01-11 08:16 · Score: 5, Informative

That is their claim in the graphs in the article. Graphs that don't mention which competing devices are being compared and which have no numbers. But they are claiming to be middle of the pack in idle power consumption, which has always been the fatal flaw in x86 mobile devices until now. If they have really managed to get an x86 to idle at a couple of milliamps of current then they are probably in the hunt. If not, it is all bogus like an x86 tablet. Who wants a phone you have to charge daily even if you don't call or even light up the display? It is all about idle time with these more mobile devices, not how many HD frames you can push for the hour or so the battery can hold up.
Anand has done a really good job analyzing Medfield's performance and power usage, with actual comparisons against other shipping competitors.
So, to answer your questions:
1. Performance comparison -
Sunspider javascript benchmark (lower is better) -
Intel Medfield - 1331 - compare to iPhone 4S - 2250 & Galaxy Nexus running Android Icecream Sandwitch - 1988
Browsermark benchmark scores (higher is better) -
Medfield - 116425 - compare to iPhone 4S - 87841 & Galaxy Nexus running Android Icecream Sandwitch - 97381
Intel's Medfield has a good 20-50% performance lead against currently shipping top of the line ARM. Granted most ARM phones are due for a refresh in 6 months which will give them an expected performance boost of about 30-50%, Medfield will still be in the same ballpark performance. Its definitely a viable option. Plus, a Medfield upgrade will also come out in 9-12 months.
2. Power consumption on standby -
Medfield standby - 18mW - compare to iPhone 4S - 38mW & Galaxy S2 - 19mW
3. Power consumption during 3G web browsing -
Medfield standby - 1W - compare to iPhone 4S - 1.3W & Galaxy S2 - 1.2W
Power consumption during 720p video playback -
Medfield standby - 850mW - compare to iPhone 4S - 500mW & Galaxy S2 - 650mW
Barring video playback, Medfield actually has better power consumption numbers than iPhone 4S and Galaxy S2. Even in video playback, Medfield is only a little bit higher. Unlike what people have been warning about, Medfield is NOT a power hog and is in fact at par with currently shipping ARM.
Instead of getting into fanboyism, people should be excited by this news. Firstly, Intel is the small underdog here, while ARM is the 800lb gorilla. Secondly, it sounds like a cliche but competition is almost always A Good Thing. Thirdly, I am personally extremely excited at the idea of a Medfield based tablet - it would give us enough flexibility to run multiple OSes and the millions of legacy x86 apps and games sloshing around in the great wide interweb. It would also allow us to run Win8 when it eventually releases which is also an attractive proposition.
Lastly, if you put aside the purist RISC/CISC debate, x86 over the years has promoted and ensured an open ecosystem of OSes, applications, websites, and open source projects/communities. For all the goodness that ARM contains, its advent into smartphones and now tablets has caused more walled gardens and vendor lockdowns, not less. The root cause may very well be greedy corporations (heck, even El Goog is turning into one) and nothing to do with ARM per se, but I'm calling it like I see it.
Re:what kind of power draw? by asliarun · 2012-01-11 08:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Sorry for replying to my own comment, but I just realized that my link to the Anandtech article got stripped out.
Here's the link: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones
Re:what kind of power draw? by hattig · 2012-01-11 09:21 · Score: 1

AnandTech has been trotting out Intel press releases as articles for a while now. It's the new Toms Hardware. It's a real shame as otherwise the site is excellent.
In this case they trotted out the same old single-thread Javascript benchmarks, as if they're representative of the hardware underneath. They're not, they're representative of the Javascript runtime underneath - and x86 Javascript JITs are more mature than the ARM ones. In addition the single-threadedness benefits a single-core high IPC design over a quad-core slightly lower IPC design like the ARM SoCs coming out this year which will compete with Medfield.
We will see how it performs in reality when the phones get into reviewers hands and they can run a wider spread of benchmarks. Right now 720p encode is rather lame, and the SGX540 GPU is looking rather warty next to a 543MP2 in the year-old A5, for example.
Re:what kind of power draw? by alvinrod · 2012-01-11 09:22 · Score: 1

The chips that they're comparing it to are not fabricated on a 32 nm process so the power consumption is going to be worse from a manufacturing standpoint, making it difficult to compare the architectures. We won't have a real comparison until we start getting ARM chips made on a 32nm or 28nm process.
Re:what kind of power draw? by hattig · 2012-01-11 09:23 · Score: 1

That could be down to the screen technology or other components in the SoC (a GPU that is significantly more advanced, for example) rather than the CPU core in the SoC. Also, we're talking about figures presented by ... Intel.
Re:what kind of power draw? by hattig · 2012-01-11 09:28 · Score: 2

Javascript benchmarks test software, not hardware. They are useful for comparing the same software on different hardware. Anand has fallen for Intel's marketing again.
Samsung are making 32nm Exynos chips now, so Intel's process isn't even going to be better than the ARM chips it will be competing against.
And the figures Anand is presenting are a result of his own tests? Nope, they're from an Intel marketing slide.
Re:what kind of power draw? by don.g · 2012-01-11 10:44 · Score: 1

Intel is the underdog!
Just like Microsoft was when it entered new markets.
And legacy old x86 code gets easier to run under emulation each time a new generation of CPUs come out.

--
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
Re:what kind of power draw? by Formalin · 2012-01-11 13:25 · Score: 1

In the story here a few weeks ago, they said the current design was idling at 2.6W, and 3.6W at full tilt (IIRC). It mentioned that they were hoping to get it down to 1W idle... which seems unrealistic if it's 2.6 right now, but, who knows.
If they manage to get it down to 1W, that's still more than 10x what a decent android phone uses (whole phone, idling, not just the CPU), and more like 50x what a 'modern' symbian phone uses.
So, I guess they will be making a smartphone, they just neglect to say that isn't mobile (at least not for long). Maybe there is a market for landline smartphones?
Re:what kind of power draw? by Formalin · 2012-01-11 13:32 · Score: 1

Hmmm, just checked the anandtech link and it's saying 20mW idle. Not sure how they managed to go from 2.6W to 20mW in a week or two? One of the stories was obviously incorrect.
Re:what kind of power draw? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 14:53 · Score: 0

Only counter point I have, this is a next generation product compared against current generation products, it's going to look better.
Re:what kind of power draw? by crhylove · 2012-01-11 15:26 · Score: 1

THIS. None of the rest of the chatter really influences anything at all. If it has power and can last all day, this might mean something. Otherwise....

--
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Re:what kind of power draw? by exomondo · 2012-01-11 16:33 · Score: 1

That could be down to the screen technology or other components in the SoC (a GPU that is significantly more advanced, for example) rather than the CPU core in the SoC.
I doubt screen technology or the GPU have much bearing on standby battery drain.
Re:what kind of power draw? by exomondo · 2012-01-11 16:38 · Score: 1

In this case they trotted out the same old single-thread Javascript benchmarks, as if they're representative of the hardware underneath. They're not, they're representative of the Javascript runtime underneath - and x86 Javascript JITs are more mature than the ARM ones.
Yes i can just see Joe Sixpack complaining about the slowness of his phone only to be satisfied by the response that his phone hardware isn't slower, it's just that the Javascript JIT compiler isn't as mature.
Re:what kind of power draw? by CAIMLAS · 2012-01-11 19:39 · Score: 1

Performance doesn't really matter all that much, past a certain point.
Clockworkmod as official unique install (per IMEI) numbers pushing 1 million. That's approximately a million devices running homebrew software. These installs are on a myriad of devices, many of which are now old and crusty (eg. the HTC HD2) in terms of hardware. They continue pushing the envelope and making Android viable for phones, however, because the hardware platform is similar. Without the similar hardware platform, these woudln't be possible. Rumour has it that the non-official Clockwork, but still Clockwork-derived mods have close to 3 times as many installs, all combined.
When OEMs frequently change radios on the phones (requiring a different radio ROM) it decreases the likelihood of the phone ever being supported by Clockwork (and thus locked at whatever version of Android they ship with). This is, per my understanding, due to how the radio ROMs are installed, memory addressing, and various other things which are largely ARM specific. The devices which don't get homebrew effort are the ones with "better" but less accessible hardware, more or less.
Now, will x86 fix that? I don't know. But I do know that battery life will likely be a relative non-issue if it's comparable and they're able to have different operating systems relatively easily loaded onto them. Clockwork and the like will make it viable, if "radio lock-in" doesn't stop adoption amongst hobbiests, and the hobbist is the what typically leads to a broad adoption of technology. (The HD2, for instance, is over 2 years old at this point. It can run everything from WinMo 6.0 up through WP8, full Ubuntu, and ICS, all because its hardware is well understood and, importantly, the radio works.) Imagine the scenario: "Yeah, get an android phone, but make sure it's got an Intel processor. Then you can load whatever base software on it you want, very easily. You won't be locked in by the carrier."

--
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Re:what kind of power draw? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 22:07 · Score: 0

You're confused in so many ways that none of your claims make any sense.
Re:what kind of power draw? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-13 10:53 · Score: 0

"Even in video playback, Medfield is only a little bit higher. Unlike what people have been warning about, Medfield is NOT a power hog"
"Power consumption during 720p video playback -
Medfield standby - 850mW - compare to iPhone 4S - 500mW"
agree mostly, but im sorry, when it comes to video playback, almost consuming 2x as much power as the iphone 4s is not 'only a little bit higher'.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by ByOhTek · 2012-01-11 05:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

"Wintel"? Focusing on Apple products? Fanboi much?

MS is moving to an platform of ARM/x86 cross compatibility, and Apple uses Intel on it's notebook products, so really, the only focus here is Intel, but some how you have to add Windows to it anyway?

Trying to figure out if your post is a subtle troll, or you are really just that obsessed...

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

Dated hardware? by MatrixCubed · 2012-01-11 05:34 · Score: 2

Having used (and seen the demise of) PowerVR hardware in the desktop (remember Kyro/Kyro II?) I'm glad to see them in the news regarding their technology being affluent in the mobile market. But the SGX540 is dated to 2007 (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series_5). Did Intel get an amazing deal on GPU chips at the discount/liquidation bin, or is this a reliable strategy?

Re:Dated hardware? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:44 · Score: 0

Probably a cheap way to lower power consumption.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by tripleevenfall · 2012-01-11 05:36 · Score: 1

I was thinking that the boast about encoding in 720p at 30fps already puts it behind the curve of present-day Apple mobile chips, let alone what will be available later this year with the next iteration of the iPhone.

Not too late by symbolset · 2012-01-11 05:37 · Score: 1

It's never too late to come out with something wonderful - to raise the bar - to redefine what people expect from their technology in ways that empower and delight and amaze. Is this it? We don't know yet. But it's not too late.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:Not too late by ColdWetDog · 2012-01-11 05:48 · Score: 3, Funny

It's never too late to come out with something wonderful - to raise the bar - to redefine what people expect from their technology in ways that empower and delight and amaze. Is this it? We don't know yet. But it's not too late.
I would just like to point out that handwarmers have been around for ages. Putting them in a cell phone is new, I'll grant you that.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Not too late by BasilBrush · 2012-01-11 05:53 · Score: 0

It's never too late to come out with something wonderful - to raise the bar - to redefine what people expect from their technology in ways that empower and delight and amaze.
An X86 chip? Talk about being hopelessly optimistic.
Re:Not too late by minderbinder.milo · 2012-01-11 06:09 · Score: 1

Are you from planet Earth? Stuffing an x86 in cell phone and calling it an "advancement" is like heaping praise an automobile company who is able to somehow eek another 5mpg out of essentially an early-90's engine design. Sure...it's an "advancement" in the technical sense of the word...but the only purpose it serves is to perpetuate our ongoing addiction.
Re:Not too late by symbolset · 2012-01-11 06:40 · Score: 0

Intel has more to offer mobile than just x86.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Not too late by wed128 · 2012-01-11 07:37 · Score: 1

They better.
Offering the mobile market x86 is like offering a vegetarian beef jerky. They don't want or need it.
The only reason x86 still exists is for application compatibility.
Re:Not too late by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:42 · Score: 0

Intel hasn't had anything to offer anybody for a very long time. i432? i860? i960? IA-64? All complete failures. GPUs? Larrabee was looking good for a while but, oh look, Intel fumbled the ball again. They were well on their way to being a major player in ARM with XScale, but oh! they managed to fuck that up too! They didn't even manage to invent a real 64bit extension to their own x86 ISA.

Intel got lucky with the 8086 and have been riding on it's coat-tails for a very, very long time.

Dull Specs, but battery life? by tlhIngan · 2012-01-11 05:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

720p video encoding, 1080p video decoding and 1080p via HDMI are considered stunning features?

Heck, Apple's been conservative, and the iPhone 4s has got 1080p video encoding, 1080p video decode and 1080p via HDMI. Androids have had it in 2010-2011 (and were mocking Apple the whole time).

So... the bigger question is - what's the battery life? The performance looks spectacular, but x86 is a notable power hog. And more worringly, I see nothing in the articles about battery life, power consumption, or battery size.

Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-11 05:51 · Score: 2

I know I might be asking a stupid question, but what pocket device on the market has a 1920x1080 display?

--
Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Vijaysj · 2012-01-11 05:57 · Score: 1

Comparing SoC to SoC, OMAP4 had this for a few years now

--
To Share Is To care
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:59 · Score: 1

none yet, but many devices have an HDMI out port which can be plugged into screens of that resolution
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:03 · Score: 0

Additionally having a device that supports 1080p, even if the display has a lower resolution, is nice since you don't need to resize videos to work on your phone.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Andy+Dodd · 2012-01-11 06:05 · Score: 3, Informative

1080p decode is useful for two things:
1) Decoding 1080p media and scaling it down to the display in real time, eliminating the need for a reencode. It's inefficient and a waste of space, but still - in some use case it's better than reencoding before loading to the device
2) HDMI output

--
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Kartu · 2012-01-11 06:05 · Score: 1

I'd rather ask "which pocket device on the market has lens that deserve 1920x1080 resolution"
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Idbar · 2012-01-11 06:11 · Score: 1

The problem with "battery life", at least to me is how do they benchmark this. When I first got an iPhone 3, battery life sucked for what I played with the phone, It lasted 2 hours.

My Galaxy S needs to be charged every night, but overall when I play a lot with the phone, it lasts enough to go through the day.

It may be that I do less or that battery lasts more or the battery is larger (now I see phones with 1800mAh instead of 1000mAh, from a couple of years back).

So I think there's a lot to be analyzed and most likely it will end up being an issue of a large display draining the battery while playing Angry Birds for most of the users.

I guess I'll wait and check my self, as I had to do with most of my devices so far.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:16 · Score: 0

HDMI out, sir.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:30 · Score: 0

None. But the convenience of not having to scale 1080p movies to play on your 720p device is a plus. 1080p output via HDMI is also key.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by AmberBlackCat · 2012-01-11 06:42 · Score: 2

People are buying cables that let them plug their phones into their televisions.
Example
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by JazzLad · 2012-01-11 07:06 · Score: 1

Most of the video I watch on my android was not shot on my (or anyone else's) phone. I'l love a screen that high res, although I'd want it much larger than the standard 3-4"

--
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'd rather ask "which pocket device on the market has lens that deserve 1920x1080 resolution"
That's only 2 megapixels...
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by BlackSnake112 · 2012-01-11 07:35 · Score: 1

Additionally having a device that supports 1080p, even if the display has a lower resolution, is nice since you don't need to resize videos to work on your phone.
If the phone's display size is smaller, how can it display the 1080p without resizing? No resizing needed for external display, fine. But on the device itself with a non 1080p screen? It has to resize to display.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by gstrickler · 2012-01-11 07:47 · Score: 1

Medfield with 2.6W idle, and 3.6W playing 720p video? Numbres they they "hope" to get down to 2W and 2.6W early this year. If they haven't had a breakthrough in their power consumption, expect those phones and tablets to fail in the market as quickly as the Kin & TouchPad, or, if they're persistent, maybe they'll be out as long as the Original Xoom or PlayBook.

--
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by tlhIngan · 2012-01-11 08:02 · Score: 1

Medfield with 2.6W idle, and 3.6W playing 720p video? Numbres they they "hope" to get down to 2W and 2.6W early this year. If they haven't had a breakthrough in their power consumption, expect those phones and tablets to fail in the market as quickly as the Kin & TouchPad, or, if they're persistent, maybe they'll be out as long as the Original Xoom or PlayBook.
The whole iPad takes 2.5W going full tilt. That includes the screen and backlight (1.5W) and the electronics (1W).
Now the SoC itself is taking 2-2.5W best case? Add in a nice screen (for a phone, probably 0.5-1W or so with backlight at a decent value) and other ancillary peripherals (like modem, WiFi, bluetooth, GPS) of maybe 0.5W total.
Most cellphone batteries are 1500mAh or smaller, or around 5Wh or so. If the phone is taking 3W, that's a little over an hour of battery life.
You won't need any special effects - the battery gauge is animated simply because it's draining that quickly.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:13 · Score: 0

I'll freely admit my brother-in-anonymity (wasn't me, really!) was technically wrong, but it should be obvious he meant "don't need to re-encode videos to work on your phone."
Most GPUs have good hardware rescaling capabilities, so decoding to a 1920x1080 framebuffer (if you've got the horsepower) and displaying it on a mobile display is straightforward. By contrast, decoding 1080p video doesn't have much in the way of speedups for small sizes -- you still have to handle the high bitrate stream, and while you can take some computational shortcuts (truncated DCT), various factors (motion vectors, deblocking, etc.) combine to yield a visible quality reduction vs. full-res decoding and scaling for display.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Colonel+Korn · 2012-01-11 08:15 · Score: 1

720p video encoding, 1080p video decoding and 1080p via HDMI are considered stunning features?
Heck, Apple's been conservative, and the iPhone 4s has got 1080p video encoding, 1080p video decode and 1080p via HDMI. Androids have had it in 2010-2011 (and were mocking Apple the whole time).
So... the bigger question is - what's the battery life? The performance looks spectacular, but x86 is a notable power hog. And more worringly, I see nothing in the articles about battery life, power consumption, or battery size.
Less power draw than ARM for most tasks, more performance: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones

--
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:30 · Score: 0

Note the S in videos. He is talking about videos in plural, ie something thats countable like "video files" and not the graphic(video) output to the display.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:37 · Score: 0

There is a huge difference between a 2 megapixel photo, and 2 megapixel "video".
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by asliarun · 2012-01-11 09:30 · Score: 1

I don't understand how people are speaking with conviction at numbers that are based on guesstimates and hearsay, and to the extent that they have already written off a chip that is just launching. Plus, these numbers seem to be wildly incorrect based on initial actual tests.
Please see the Anandtech article that contains actual performance and power numbers:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones
The Intel Medfield SoC idles at 18mW, consumes 1W during 3G browsing, and 850mW when running a 720p video.
The SoC does NOT consume 2 or 2.5W.
Medfield's power performance at idle is significantly better than iPhone4S, somewhat better than Galaxy S2, is somewhat better than both at 3G browsing, and trails a bit in video playback. While Medfield isn't killing ARM with a much lower power consumption, it is definitely at par with ARM chips that are *currently shipping* and will likely be competitive with the slew of upcoming chips as well.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by treeves · 2012-01-11 14:13 · Score: 1

Unless the video is 1/30 of a second in length, obviously.

--
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by treeves · 2012-01-11 14:14 · Score: 1

Heck, I even have a cable that lets me plug my phone into the freakin' wall!

--
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by mjwx · 2012-01-11 19:31 · Score: 1

I know I might be asking a stupid question, but what pocket device on the market has a 1920x1080 display?
Some have been coming out with MiniHDMI ports for almost a year now.

!080 recording is a marketing gimmick. But besides this, taking 1920x1080 video is usually done with the idea it will be viewed on a device that can display that resolution such as a computer of HDTV. In reality no-one wants to watch a shaky, out of focus video with poor audio taken from completely the wrong angle someone's phone.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 04:36 · Score: 0

> I'll freely admit my brother-in-anonymity (wasn't me, really!) was technically wrong...
Semantically confusing, but not technically wrong. I should have said re-encode.
Re:Dull Specs, but battery life? by galanom · 2012-01-12 19:04 · Score: 1

None, and there's no reason to exist.
Upcoming Samsung will feature 1280x720 in a 4.x display, which IMFHO is already an overkill.
What the fuck, there are people who still buy 15.4" laptops with 1280x720 and they think it's ok,
what kind of idiot would want 1080p for his smartphone while being happy with 720p on his laptop?
Also, taking 1080p photos or video with the crappy lens and crappy flash of a phone is useless.
It's just a gimmick. They should better focus on size, battery, usability, and other stuff that matter for a phone.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by phantomfive · 2012-01-11 05:41 · Score: 1

intel should be making these on 22nm and new products being released now,

I think the reason they don't is because 22nm requires more power to operate at a high speed.

Mark my words in the next 5 years ARM is going to have a CPU good enough for a laptop. the cost structure of Wintel will make this a huge financial/profit opportunity for laptop makers

I don't think this matters. The CPU is not why laptops are expensive, so even if some ARM manufacturer manages to match Intel in performance (unlikely), what motivation is there to dump all your legacy software that only runs on Intel?

Also, if AMD couldn't overtake Intel with chips that were at times superior, why do you think VIA or Qualcomm could?

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."

FFS... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-01-11 05:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why do people(TFS and TFA notably not excluded) insist on talking about the part in terms of its GPU performance?

Let's see here... Intel is throwing their hat into the ARM-level power arena... we could discuss how fast their processor is, or we could do a bunch of irrelevant jabbering about how fast the SGX540 that virtually everybody licenses from PowerVR is... Hmm. Hey, let's focus on the part that everybody already knows about and make it even more fascinating by not discussing power for GPU operations; but encode and decode of some (unspecified; but quite possibly a restricted baseline of H.264) 'HD Video' format, and the maximum output resolution!

It's actually a pretty impressive way to natter on about the product without the slightest mention of what may or may not make it interesting. In other news, it is probably made of silicon, and in some sort of density-optimized epoxy package!

Re:FFS... by Sez+Zero · 2012-01-11 05:50 · Score: 4, Funny

In other news, it is probably made of silicon, and in some sort of density-optimized epoxy package!
But will it have rounded corners? And shiny? Will it be shiny?!?
Re:FFS... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:54 · Score: 0

My god! A density-optimized epoxy package?
Re:FFS... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 05:56 · Score: 0

It needs to be shiny and blinky or you can count me out...
Re:FFS... by sgt+scrub · 2012-01-11 05:59 · Score: 1

I vote for shiny too.

--
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Re:FFS... by BasilBrush · 2012-01-11 06:00 · Score: 1

So, fungus, start discussing it...
Re:FFS... by Sponge+Bath · 2012-01-11 06:07 · Score: 1

Will it be shiny?!?
It will come in Zune brown.
Re:FFS... by Guspaz · 2012-01-11 06:47 · Score: 1

Because it's relevant to the viability of the platform. The SGX540 is not particularly modern or competitive, so it holds back the rest of the platform. The fact that Intel is also licensing a third-party GPU (and talking about their future migration to the SGX543, also third-party) rather than using their own GPU is not particularly reassuring.
As a pure CPU, Medfield looks pretty decent. As an SoC, it's unimpressive. There's way more to an SoC than the CPU.
Re:FFS... by Vegemeister · 2012-01-11 07:20 · Score: 1

The fact that Intel is also licensing a third-party GPU (and talking about their future migration to the SGX543, also third-party) rather than using their own GPU is not particularly reassuring.
Considering it's Intel... that's very reassuring.
Re:FFS... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-01-11 10:32 · Score: 1

If the, um, situation with the "GMA500" is anything to go by, people will be begging for an intel GPU(or the sweet embrace of death, which might actually move more polygons per second...)

That was the previous generation attempt at a very low power Atom platform(also used in the embedded-only CE1400 chips, for set-top boxes), and was also a PowerVR licensed core(Intel's in-house at the time was the GMA950, an entirely different animal). Now, it may have been nice and cool-running; but the driver situation was a Lovecraftian clusterfuck of epic dimensions. The GMA950 was slow as a dog, and driver support for actual features relentlessly delayed; but it was fairly mature and well-behaved, so long as not asked to actually exert itself. The GMA500 was an opaque nightmare on the One True Kernel/xorg Combination Of Antioch, and simply unsupported elsewhere.

Unless Intel has kidnapped the children of selected PowerVR executives this time around, I'm not sure I want to know how much fun the upcoming SoCs are going to be...
Re:FFS... by treeves · 2012-01-11 14:15 · Score: 1

So brown and shiny then. Could be good.

--
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.

Good, hope to see... by unique_parrot · 2012-01-11 05:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

... an android x86 avd for eclipse soon, which - i expect - should be much faster that the arm emulator !!

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by alen · 2012-01-11 05:49 · Score: 1

at this point the iOS and android software catalogs are large enough that it's not an issue. developers will build on that.

ARM laptops won't run current PC games or do dev work but 99% of people don't care. Angry Birds has as many customers as Call of Duty games if not more. the hardcore gamer market is tapped out and the next gaming frontier is casual gaming with less emphasis on blood and gore

Title fail then by symbolset · 2012-01-11 05:50 · Score: 0

I recall an instance where third party chipsets were better, but Intel wanted to make a market for their chipsets. They priced the CPU + chipset lower than the CPU bare. OEMs just bought the pair and threw away the chipsets. Somebody correct me if my recall is flawed.

We shall see.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:Title fail then by slew · 2012-01-11 07:47 · Score: 1

Taking this to the logical conclusion, since now in the smartphone market, the "chip" is an SOC (the CPU + chipset logic on the same silicon die), OEMs will just buy the SOC chip and throw away the whole thing... Hmm, that sounds like something that will happen.
Intel often made decent, albeit low-end, chipsets. Fortunatly for them most folks today don't really buy smartphones based on latent hardware capabilities that they probably won't use (but just "in-case"), but software features. In this case, they have less to worry about. The downside is that the smartphone business likely won't support their current gross-profit-margin strategy of selling CPUs that run 2% faster for 50% more money.
We shall see what they do about that...
Re:Title fail then by hairyfeet · 2012-01-11 09:55 · Score: 2

I believe you are talking about the old 815 series which was real shite on a crusty roll so IIRC Intel tried to shove 'em out the door by selling them cheaper by the pair and most just chunked the chipset and paired it with an AMD or Nvidia nforce. Meh if its one thing Intel still hasn't figured out how to do its making decent chipsets with awesome graphics. the best you can usually say is "Well its not total shit, just mostly" when it comes to Intel chipsets. great for business users but with this market the consumer and not the businessman is what's driving it.
I just have to wonder how big a market there is gonna be for these things. i mean lets face it the reason we are talking X86 on cell phones is Windows, and even the most stripped down pirate version of Win 7 clocks in at about a Gb of space and then you have to figure in the size of the apps. What are they gonna do, but 60Gb mini drives in all the phones? But its pointless to run Windows without Windows programs so i just don't see the point, its not like Android and Chrome don't already run just fine on ARM, and even if this is for Windows 8 which is touch screen heavy you are still talking about a need for a shitload of storage space into a thing that thanks to iPhone has to be slim and sleek and sexy. To get enough space in the thing to make it useful its gonna have to be fatter than those brown Zunes!

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Title fail then by symbolset · 2012-01-11 09:59 · Score: 1

These things don't run Windows, by design. They lack a PCI bridge - probably for the specific reason to help OEMs avoid secret commitments to ship only Windows on Windows capable hardware.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Title fail then by LinuxIsGarbage · 2012-01-11 10:18 · Score: 2, Informative

I've heard similar things around their GPUs (I'm thinking older ones).
i945 chipset costs $x
i945 chipset + GMA950 = $x + $0.75
Factor in the marketing scam of "centrino" which customers thought meant a certain model CPU, but really meant Intel CPU (Pentium M or better) + Intel Chipset + Intel Wifi. Throw in a 75 cent GPU and you have a laptop that consumers clawed over each other to get.
Even though Intel has a history of making garbage GPUs.
First foray was Intel 740 which was a standalone AGP card. What a joke.
i810 is an integrated version of the GPU, and is pretty crappy. Doesn't even support VESA modes above 640x480x16.
Generations of crappy integrated solutions branded "Exxxtreme graphics"
GMA910 Which Intel forced Microsoft to qualify for Vista Capable even though it was physically incapable of running WDDM drivers and thus couldn't run Aero. Lots of pissed off customers and OEMs and lots of lawsuits. I think they had warehouses full of these things and they were trying to foist them off. This crappy chip popped up again for the Celeron-M in the original 7" EeePC, as well as some early 9 and 10 inch models.
GMA950 represents the bare minimum that can run Aero. It was also forced on generations of Atom users when Intel tried to block nVidia out of the platform (why would users want accelerated HD video on an anemic CPU...)
GMA500 Based on a PowerVR core, the specs are actually good, but it had horrible driver support under Windows and Linux. This was on Z-series Atoms.
Larrabee never panned out as a dedicated GPU either.
And in almost every case an Intel GPU underperforms an equivalent bargain bin integrated GPU from AMD/ATI or nVidia. Most end users do 2d desktop software, and Video viewing, so they aren't demanding users, but the Intel GMA represents poor performance value. I think GMA stands for "Gimp along Media Adapter" or "Garbage Media Adapter". I think some of their more recent attempts are a bit better, but I hate the software associated with whatever's on my i5 company laptop.
Re:Title fail then by hairyfeet · 2012-01-11 14:19 · Score: 1

Uhhh you DO realize there is both a Windows embedded and now an ARM version of Windows, yes? i don't think leaving out a PCI bus is gonna stop MSFT from waving a check and getting anything they want put on the things. hell they would be just following Intel's lead who had the entire OEM market bribed from 2002-2009 with one CEO calling Intel bribes "like cocaine".
But think about this logically: Why would they use x86 if not for Windows? not for Linux, it runs on ARM, not Android, not iOS, the ONLY reason to buy x86 is to run Windows because in mobile devices frankly ARM sips power while even a crippled chip like Atom gulps it compared to something like Tegra. it just doesn't make any sense unless this is for WinTablet and WinPhone.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.

PowerVR? by jginspace · 2012-01-11 05:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

PowerVR drivers anyone?

Re:PowerVR? by Guspaz · 2012-01-11 06:50 · Score: 1

I'd just be happy if PowerVR would release (or bundle) their full OpenGL drivers; nobody other than Intel has licensed them, so all we get is OpenGL ES. Which is nice for apps written specifically for it, but few things in a generic Linux distro are.
Also, I'd be happy if I could get vsync working on my OMAP4430.
Re:PowerVR? by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-11 06:53 · Score: 1

This is the nastiest sticking point in mobile hackability. Pretty much everything smaller than a netbook has a PowerVR GPU and if you get an unfixable binary blob driver for your OS of choice from them, you should consider yourself lucky.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by ByOhTek · 2012-01-11 05:55 · Score: 3, Informative

intel should be making these on 22nm and new products being released now,

I think the reason they don't is because 22nm requires more power to operate at a high speed.

??? How's that happen, typically the lower the process size, the lower the energy use for the same design (and the higher possible clock speed before heat issues occur).

Mark my words in the next 5 years ARM is going to have a CPU good enough for a laptop. the cost structure of Wintel will make this a huge financial/profit opportunity for laptop makers

I don't think this matters. The CPU is not why laptops are expensive, so even if some ARM manufacturer manages to match Intel in performance (unlikely), what motivation is there to dump all your legacy software that only runs on Intel?

Also, if AMD couldn't overtake Intel with chips that were at times superior, why do you think VIA or Qualcomm could?

The issue isn't cost, but performance. Even a low end x86 (except Atom and AMDs equivalent) can outperform an ARM chip significantly. Also, have you seen the price of replacement notebook CPUs? They are a lot more expensive than similar desktop CPUs. It's not the only reason they are more expensive, but it certainly is part of it.

ARM may in fact catch up to x86 - the question then is, will Intel focus more on their own ARM development? Performance focus has been moving from per-thread performance (where x86 is usually pretty good, and performance/watt is not necessarily a huge concern) to multi-threaded performance (where performance/watt can translate quite well, since you just have to add more cores to up the overall performance). I believe ARM is better at performance/watt than x86, so with ARM catching up on core count (and probably exceeding x86 soon), x86 may indeed lose it's lead. Of course, that only hurts Intel if they focus on x86.

Then again, I can see a slightly different future. Both multi-threaded and monolithic-threaded have their advantages. For notebooks (and maybe desktops/servers) I can see a primary ARM CPU handling most of the work, and an x86 (or Power, or whatever?) taking on the brute force stuff when needed, and otherwise powering down. Of course, applications and libraries will now need to store both ARM and x86 versions, and the OS will need to have code to allow cross talk between x86 and ARM at least at the cross-process level, but possibly even within processes themselves. Then again, that would be a huge undertaking and possibly not worth the effort.

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by RobertLTux · 2012-01-11 05:59 · Score: 1

heck until we can have smartphones powered by liquid naquadah (or similar) the other specs are a yawner

BLUE MAN KREE!

--
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:02 · Score: 0

I'll sell you some Windows 8 tablets, PM me

This is good, by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:03 · Score: 0

hopefully it means I can code low level without big headaches switching to new tools for other hardware architectures.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by ByOhTek · 2012-01-11 06:03 · Score: 1

How can any have been sold, it hasn't been developed yet. A better comparison would be Windows 7 Phone, which has sold some (not much, but some). Moving in any direction always requires a first step. MS is moving to the cloud with many apps, so you can add a client-architecture irrelevance to the list of things easing the move. Just as many users don't care about dev/gaming, they also, sadly, don't care/realize the dangers of the cloud.

Mind you, 5 years from now is a long time, it look less time than that for Apple to go from an all-Power architecture to mostly using x86s with some Power stuff for legacy purposes only. And they didn't use any cloud crap. Why couldn't MS do the same switch?

Harming Intel 5 years down the road does not necessarily harm MS, and vice versa.

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by phantomfive · 2012-01-11 06:06 · Score: 1

at this point the iOS and android software catalogs are large enough that it's not an issue. developers will build on that.

No, it is an issue. Do you really want to buy a new copy of Photoshop and Microsoft Office, just because of some dubious processor change? Are they really going to use "Pages" on their iPhone? Intel is a marketing genius.....when it comes to processors, all most people know about is "Intel Inside." They don't care about RISC, but they DO care when their software stops working. That includes people at home who were stupid enough to pay $50 for Word Perfect that came bundled with their computer.

The only way ARM will overtake x86 is if smartphones overtake traditional computers. There just isn't a reason strong enough to motivate people to switch to ARM.

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."

Re:You haven't entered Africa by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:13 · Score: 1, Funny

One of these days, you're going to goof up. You're going to forget to click the Post Anonymously checkbox. You hear me, Richard Stallman? We're on to you!

Re:You haven't entered Africa by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:13 · Score: 0

No, most of them won't be able to afford the phone.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:15 · Score: 0

Does it come with a bridge? I really want a bridge!

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Locutus · 2012-01-11 06:17 · Score: 1

but you forget that the current laptop PC manufacturers will not touch anything which does not run Windows. Sure Windows will eventually run on ARM and could run on an ARM laptop but you do know that Microsoft controls what Windows gets installed on don't you? They aren't going to allow laptops with just the ARM chip to boot Windows on that even if it's only running Metro and the hardware manufacturers are not going to cross Microsoft.

Apple can pull it off because people know Apple controls everything from the music store, application store, OS and hardware. If Android picks up with a more feature rich application base it might work but again, you won't see standard hardware vendors who work with Microsoft making Linux or Android based hardware and cross Microsoft's path.

We might see ARM on servers but it would have to be specialty hardware to keep it from getting anywhere near what's considered a PC.

Intel has nothing to worry about in the PC market except for a diminishing roll of the PC(desktop and laptop) due to tablet use. Intel has to be in the tablet and phone market to even keep its market share stable. Going with PowerVR was a smart move but they have to keep up with power usage and Nvidia's Tegra 3 just changed the game with the 5th CPU under clocked.

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

++ for distro choice! by couchslug · 2012-01-11 06:19 · Score: 1

That's the big deal to me. For a phone to eventually become a serious notebook and desktop alternative it needs to run an appropriate OS and make use of the vast existing application base.

--
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."

Re:++ for distro choice! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:02 · Score: 0

All of the phones in my home already do. Splashtop and/or VNC makes my phones Linux, OSX and Windows compatible.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by alen · 2012-01-11 06:23 · Score: 1

and how many regular home users buy Photoshop? how about spending $300 to upgrade their trial of MS office they got.

95% to 99% of computer users do
internet
email
light document work for which google apps, pages or the other apps out there are more than good enough
photo editing - there are photo editing apps in both markets and as long as they are as good enough as the current version of iphoto it will be good enough for most people

Asus has a good idea with the Transformer tablet but they are marketing it wrong. they are trying to sell on specs to the power user who will still always buy an intel based laptop. and selling it with the dock for $500 is a money loser. that's why i said give it a few years. 3-5 max would be my guess. of course apple will probably get there first with a major release

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 06:26 · Score: 0

Yeah, I heard that from apple fanbois a couple years ago, "iOS has all the apps, nobody will build for android" how's that turning out?

Unless you can play World of Warcraft on it... by Phil_at_EvilNET · 2012-01-11 06:27 · Score: 1

...what's the point?

--
To avoid corruption, one must remain dishonest.

Re:Unless you can play World of Warcraft on it... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-01-11 06:56 · Score: 2

You could probably port Wine to Android-x86 with some effort, so WoW is not off-limits.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by CohibaVancouver · 2012-01-11 06:31 · Score: 1, Interesting

and how many Windows 8 tablets have been sold?

Huh? Win8 isn't even shipping. How could any be sold?

sell it for $500 but have it cost less to build due to it not being powered by Intel then it's going to get built and sold. and that day will come soon. won't be good for most gaming/dev work but 99% of the people won't care.

Why do iPads sell well? Because there are lots of applications and you can do lots of good stuff.

Why do Windows computers sell well? Because there are lots of applications and you can do lots of good stuff.

A non-intel laptop is going to take a long time to come up to speed once people realize there isn't a wealth of applications available. It's the same reason all those cheap Linux boxes at Dell and Wal-Mart fail - People realize they can't run apps and return them.

Developers code apps for the most common platforms - Right now that platform is x86, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Locutus · 2012-01-11 06:33 · Score: 1

the problem with ARM PC's for Microsoft is that people will think they can install x86 apps on them and they can't. Apple, by virtue of their costs tend to be used by more educated people and because of the smaller market share had/have fewer head aches dealing with migrations. Making the iPad enabled to run iPhone apps was very smart on Apple and Microsoft can't really do that with the market share Windows Phone phones have.

I doubt very much we'll see anything running ARM SoCs which look like a PC(desktop or laptop) and runs Windows 8 for ARM. Metro is the UI and API they need to get cross CPU and cross device applications and without widespread use of that a Windows for ARM PC will just drive the public nuts as they find out there existing software will not work and there's nothing like it available. Maybe in 5 years but looking at Android and Apple's iOS you have to wonder if they can even get to 20% market share in the phone segment in that time.

Had Linux on desktops done better we might see some ARM PCs but you know how the years of the Linux desktop has gone.

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by JazzLad · 2012-01-11 06:59 · Score: 2

> A non-intel laptop is going to take a long time to come up to speed once people realize there isn't a wealth of applications available.

Did AMD stop making chips, or just laptop ones? Hmm, neither apparently.

--
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by CohibaVancouver · 2012-01-11 07:03 · Score: 1

Did AMD stop making chips

Sigh.

OK, you got me. Aren't you so smart?

"Non x86." blah blah blah.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by symbolset · 2012-01-11 07:05 · Score: 1

They don't seem to be trying very hard to avoid the implicit customer confusion either. It seems like they're yearning for the backlash. This should be fun.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:10 · Score: 0

Well he is right. Using 'intel' to mean x86 is like using 'ford' to mean 'American automobile'.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by larry+bagina · 2012-01-11 07:15 · Score: 1

Intel stopped focusing on ARM development when they sold XScale to Marvell.

--
Do you even lift?

These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

What phone-centered software runs on x86? by ravenscar · 2012-01-11 07:16 · Score: 1

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be), but AFAIK there is no strong ecosystem for x86 software that is geared toward usage on a touch-screen phone. Granted, Win8 will run X86 and will probably garner some touch-oriented software for the small screen, but it doesn't exist yet. So if I get one of these phones which 'apps' will I run? I suppose there is the Android x86 port, but I would imagine that most of the existing Android apps would fail in that environment.

Re:What phone-centered software runs on x86? by Colonel+Korn · 2012-01-11 08:17 · Score: 4, Informative

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be), but AFAIK there is no strong ecosystem for x86 software that is geared toward usage on a touch-screen phone. Granted, Win8 will run X86 and will probably garner some touch-oriented software for the small screen, but it doesn't exist yet. So if I get one of these phones which 'apps' will I run? I suppose there is the Android x86 port, but I would imagine that most of the existing Android apps would fail in that environment.
From Anand:
"By default all Android apps run in a VM and are thus processor architecture agnostic. As long as the apps are calling Android libraries that aren't native ARM there, once again, shouldn't be a problem. Where Intel will have a problem is with apps that do call native libraries or apps that are ARM native (e.g. virtually anything CPU intensive like a 3D game).
Intel believes that roughly 75% of all Android apps in the Market don't feature any native ARM code. The remaining 25% are the issue. The presumption is that eventually this will be a non-issue (described above), but what do users of the first x86 Android phones do? Two words: binary translation.
Intel isn't disclosing much about the solution, but by intercepting ARM binaries and translating ARM code to x86 code on the fly during execution Intel is hoping to achieve ~90% app compatibility at launch. Binary translation is typically noticeably slower than running native code, although Intel is unsurprisingly optimistic about the experience on Android. I'm still very skeptical about the overall experience but we'll have to wait and see for ourselves."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones

--
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Re:What phone-centered software runs on x86? by ravenscar · 2012-01-11 08:53 · Score: 1

Awesome - thanks. For some reason I wasn't even thinking about the Dalvik VM. If I hadn't already posted in the thread I'd mod you informative.
Re:What phone-centered software runs on x86? by Amouth · 2012-01-11 10:55 · Score: 1

what i love - is (with complete lack of accuracy).. Android is a port of Linux from x86 to ARM.. now they are porting Android from ARM to x86..

--
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by symbolset · 2012-01-11 07:18 · Score: 1

We might see ARM on servers but it would have to be specialty hardware to keep it from getting anywhere near what's considered a PC.

It's here. Limited availability and high price as yet.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Just talk faster by Colin+Smith · 2012-01-11 07:25 · Score: 1

Problem solved.

--
Deleted

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:31 · Score: 0

AMD and Intel both use IA-32 chips... what does IA mean? Intel Architecture 32 bit.

Just like ARM means chips by TI, nVidia, Samsung or any other manufactures... Saying Intel means anything using the IA-32!

Some people are idiots.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by danbob999 · 2012-01-11 07:35 · Score: 2

Intel means Intel.
IA-32 isn't really used. We call this x86.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:39 · Score: 0

Yeah, I heard that from apple fanbois a couple years ago, "iOS has all the apps, nobody will build for android" how's that turning out?

Quite well thank you.

Let us not forget by amram9999 · 2012-01-11 07:43 · Score: 1

Intel made an attempt to enter this market before, and failed, circa 2005. They produced such legendary phones as the Motorola A910.

couchdouche runs away after being stupid? LOL! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 07:43 · Score: 0

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2603836&cid=38588550

Best hope for Windows Phone 8 by unixisc · 2012-01-11 07:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

Given that Windows on ARM does not have the advantage that Windows normally has - of a gazillion legacy apps, this is the best hope for Windows as yet. At least, this way, some Windows programs can be run, if they can accept touch-screen inputs in addition to the usual keyboard & mouse.

Normally, this would be a godsend for Motorola, but given its being part of Google and presumably the most favored Android tablet, I'm surprised that they went w/ this solution. Lenovo makes sense, and I'd have expected Dell to jump into this as well - surprised that so far, they haven't. Done right, this could be a serious challenge to RIM, since it would allow one's work environment to be staged, and employees on the go can keep working on their phones somewhat less optimally than on their PCs, but at least get the most urgent things out of the way.

Anandtech has the numbers by grimJester · 2012-01-11 07:45 · Score: 4, Informative

Here.. Looks quite competitive to me.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by itof500 · 2012-01-11 07:55 · Score: 1

The only way ARM will overtake x86 is if smartphones overtake traditional computers. There just isn't a reason strong enough to motivate people to switch to ARM.
===
Can you say a 1 lb laptop with 10 hours of plug free operation? (e.g. an iPad2). That is a pretty sweet, mobile package.

Duke out

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 08:17 · Score: 0

Look at Debian or NetBSD sometime -- there's actually a wealth of applications available, it's just not the ones "normal" people want, i.e. microsoft office and games.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Asmodae · 2012-01-11 08:20 · Score: 2

??? How's that happen, typically the lower the process size, the lower the energy use for the same design (and the higher possible clock speed before heat issues occur).

Not strictly true. The switching current is what goes down, but leakage current goes up. For older technologies that power threshold was recently crossed, that's why each new process step isn't just about feature size, but new tech to reduce leakage current so the power draw doesn't go insane. So reducing feature size, particularly at the scales we have now have real leakage current issues that need to be addressed at each step. High-K metal gates at 32nm was key to address this. And now Intel has the 3D Tri-Gate that helps reduce leakage current. I should note that these technologies also help increase/maintain switching speeds at the lower voltages/currents/feature sizes as well, which is a big selling point, but power is a huge part of that equation, particularly now in the mobile space.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Nikker · 2012-01-11 08:30 · Score: 1

Right now there are so many company names when Joe Six-pack goes shopping most people come out with stuff from obscure Taiwanese companies that are comprised of components from other companies I can't even begin to read let alone pronounce. While brand names can be a deal closer it is not necessary. Don't forget with all the cheap Chinese manufacturing everyone is getting into the small portable device category, this breeds all kinds of ecosystems.

I think with the new quad core ULP CPUs we will be pretty close if not fully able to virtually host a desktop system. A year or two after that you might have all of your data and multiple VMs and all kinds of hardware virtualized. At the end of the day with some highspeed wireless you could just feed the image as a simple file to a desktop system save the changes and take it with you.

--
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.

What compelling features does x86 have for Android by ansible · 2012-01-11 08:44 · Score: 1

I'm really not getting the point of all this effort. OK, sure, its kinda cool that they've got a x86 processor that is small and cool enough to run a phone. But the overall features are only on-par with the existing Android ARM phones of the current generation. The multimedia capabilities are also not substantially different / better.

If I want to buy a new phone, what's going to make the Intel-based offering better? Yes, it runs a different instruction set at a low level, but the only way in which that might have mattered was 3 years ago when Adobe Flash support on ARM mobiles was not good. Today, Flash is less relevant, and does exist.

What's really the value proposition for x86 phones? Price? Performance? New applications? Faster wireless? Smaller / lighter? What? As far as I can tell, it is none of those. "Earning a seat at the smartphone table" isn't enough justification for this, in my opinion.

If it also ran desktop Windows 7, now that would be something. But I'd want at least 8GB of RAM, and ideally a 64-bit dual core (quad preferred). Then I could really fulfill the promise of the Moto Atrix, and truly carry my desktop around with me in my hand. That would be something I can't easily do with an ARM-powered Android phone.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by tsotha · 2012-01-11 09:06 · Score: 1

95% to 99% of computer users do
internet
email
light document work for which google apps, pages or the other apps out there are more than good enough
photo editing - there are photo editing apps in both markets and as long as they are as good enough as the current version of iphoto it will be good enough for most people

Yes. That's been true for 15 years and yet MS and Intel are still on top. People understand their own needs change over time and the mix of software may need to change as well. If you don't know what you might need to use a year or two down the road, it makes sense to buy the platform with the most available software even if there are other platforms that suit your current needs.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-11 09:14 · Score: 0

pretty damn good.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by hattig · 2012-01-11 09:15 · Score: 1

Intel is using 32nm LP process for this processor. 22nm LP is not ready yet, and probably won't be for a year - Intel has only just got 32nm LP ready for this processor. 22nm HP is not suitable for low leakage chips like this SoC.

Re:You haven't entered Africa by ocdscouter · 2012-01-11 09:16 · Score: 0

I done seen +2 Troll before, but never before have I seen +/-0 Funny.

Intel just now entering? by nurb432 · 2012-01-11 09:26 · Score: 1

Don't they already make ARM chips ? Or was the real story 'x86 Powered...'

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Locutus · 2012-01-11 09:30 · Score: 1

and the Overview, Highlights, and yikes "Get The Facts" sections never even mention ARM. I guess people who purchase or run servers don't want to know this little fact.

It reminds me of how Dell had to sell Linux and even had to change pages Microsoft disagreed with.

It may be "here" as in at HP's beta site but it isn't here as in the real world.

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by symbolset · 2012-01-11 09:40 · Score: 1

They're not selling it to just anybody yet. And it's not cheap. It was just announced in November. HP's only one of many though. ARM servers are here, and they're real. It will take time.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Interesting for silent computing enthusiasts by starmonkey · 2012-01-11 11:00 · Score: 1

I don't care about smartphones, but this is great news for silent and low-power computing enthusiasts. I'm hope we can look forward to this SoC being used to power fan-less, silent systems.

Re:Interesting for silent computing enthusiasts by gregrah · 2012-01-11 12:48 · Score: 1

Intel's recently announced Cedar Trail update to the Atom line of processors also includes some models that are meant to be run fan-less. I think you're more likely to see these Cedar Trail chips being brought to the market in silent PCs than Medfield chips.

Glad to see that there are others out there who value silence above all else!
Re:Interesting for silent computing enthusiasts by starmonkey · 2012-01-11 17:18 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link. I was thinking of the Medfield SoC in the same context as the Raspberry Pi, which uses a Broadcom ARM SoC. That's my next computer. Silence is beautiful, especially the variety you get when there's a blackout. "Ahhh..." I also like that silent computers usually mean energy-efficient computers, and long-lasting computers with fewer moving parts. There's something aesthetically pleasing about that. I think all chipmakers are trying to reduce energy consumption, since this is a desirable feature for many markets they serve (server farms, laptops, smartphones/tablets). Blissful silence is a happy by-product.

Re:What compelling features does x86 have for Andr by gregrah · 2012-01-11 12:34 · Score: 1

I think you've got to look to the future to really understand why this is a good thing.

Intel has by far the largest R&D budget of any chip maker out there. They've done some amazing things in the desktop and server space recently with their "Core" line, to the point where pretty much no one can touch them at the moment on performance or power efficiency (at that performance level).

This is only their first release for the smartphone market, and already they are releasing a chip that beats existing ARM processors while being competitive on power usage. Future iterations are going to get better, and by bringing to bear their enormous and R&D budget and advanced manufacturing processes they are going to push the smartphone industry forward.

You ask:

What's really the value proposition for x86 phones? Price? Performance? New applications? Faster wireless? Smaller / lighter?

By having Intel compete in the smartphone business, I think the answer is "yes" to all of the above. It's just going to take some time to see the results.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by exomondo · 2012-01-11 13:56 · Score: 2

Saying Intel means anything using the IA-32!

So by the same token does saying 'AMD' mean 'anything using the AMD64 architecture'?

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by exomondo · 2012-01-11 14:02 · Score: 1

95% to 99% of computer users do
internet
email
light document work for which google apps, pages or the other apps out there are more than good enough
photo editing - there are photo editing apps in both markets and as long as they are as good enough as the current version of iphoto it will be good enough for most people

Those are the tasks that 95-99% of computer users have in common, not the only things that 95-99% of users do.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by exomondo · 2012-01-11 14:12 · Score: 1

Yeah, I heard that from apple fanbois a couple years ago, "iOS has all the apps, nobody will build for android" how's that turning out?

Quite well thank you.

It seems you're having difficulty understanding the question, his point is that while supposedly these 'apple fanbois' said 'nobody would build for android', it turns out that was incorrect.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by petman · 2012-01-11 17:33 · Score: 1

I don't quite know what definition of 'server' you're using, but if we take the generic definition that includes print servers, media servers, NAS etc., then ARM servers are actually quite prolific nowadays.

--
Dropbox drops it like it's hot.

so uh... by smash · 2012-01-11 19:35 · Score: 1

... my iphone encodes video at 1080p and has been out for months.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by N+Monkey · 2012-01-11 19:36 · Score: 1

I was thinking that the boast about encoding in 720p at 30fps already puts it behind the curve of present-day Apple mobile chips, let alone what will be available later this year with the next iteration of the iPhone.

I was about to say that didn't sound right but I see from wikipedia that I was thinking about the iPhone 4 (which only supports up to 720p). Apple's clearly beefed up their video encode hardware in the A5.

LG GW990 vapourisation by speculatrix · 2012-01-12 00:45 · Score: 1

nearly two years ago LG were showing off their GW990, an Atom/Moorestown device. The demos looked very impressive and it looked like it might be a winner. I don't recall the reason for it never making it to market every having been made public. My guess is that it was too power hungry to the point of being unacceptable.

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 01:16 · Score: 0

It seems you're having difficulty understanding the question, his point is that while supposedly these 'apple fanbois' said 'nobody would build for android', it turns out that was incorrect.

So where is Infinity Blade?

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by ByOhTek · 2012-01-12 06:42 · Score: 1

the problem with ARM PC's for Microsoft is that people will think they can install x86 apps on them and they can't.

Responded to this previously.

Apple, by virtue of their costs tend to be used by more educated people and because of the smaller market share had/have fewer head aches dealing with migrations.

I've seen no correlation between Apple use over PC use and education (or intelligence for that matter). Many of them are more willing to pay more for their computer and do without in other areas. Looking around my university, and several other, CS, Engineering and Physicists are mostly PC (Linux), Math is split between Linux and WIndows PC, Chemists, Geological Sicences and most of the Biological Sciences are mostly PC (WIndows), About the only "Mostly Mac" areas are Art/Graphical Design, Philosophy, and Genetics. As someone with a degree in genetics, that is one of the least difficult of the biological sciences. The hard stuff is all PC. Most of the trends in the sciences are because these systems are where they find the best software. Mind you, the Physicists have a prety easy time moving to Mac if they want, so outside of physics, it seems the trend would be fairly strong across universities. From what I've seen, it is.

Making the iPad enabled to run iPhone apps was very smart on Apple and Microsoft can't really do that with the market share Windows Phone phones have.

I doubt very much we'll see anything running ARM SoCs which look like a PC(desktop or laptop) and runs Windows 8 for ARM. Metro is the UI and API they need to get cross CPU and cross device applications and without widespread use of that a Windows for ARM PC will just drive the public nuts as they find out there existing software will not work and there's nothing like it available. Maybe in 5 years but looking at Android and Apple's iOS you have to wonder if they can even get to 20% market share in the phone segment in that time.

Yep, like Mac users were mad at Mac apps not working on ipod/iphone/ipad? LIke Linux users being being mad at Linux apps not working on Android? Like Mac users with pre-rosetta apps flocked away from Apple when they stopped producing Power series sytems? MS is moving to Metro for all platforms (with a "classic desktop" option for the desktop systesm), and it seems they are moving towards .NET as the recommended app development platform.

Between moving towards .NET and towards online applications (the latter I mentioned before), the whole "can't use my old apps" argument seems rather flimsy.

--
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Locutus · 2012-01-12 08:46 · Score: 1

that was _level_ of education, not form or specialty of education. and on the Mac or Linux users being mad about not being able to run native apps goes, Linux users are far and above more technically inclined since they have to install their OS and the iPhone/iPad are completely different use cases and look and act nothing like a Mac so why would they expect that? This is about the PC form factor and why we won't see ARM based PC devices.

There's also a big difference between moving to online apps and actually being there enough to not need any native apps. Besides, .Net is not pervasive enough either.

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by exomondo · 2012-01-12 10:50 · Score: 1

It seems you're having difficulty understanding the question, his point is that while supposedly these 'apple fanbois' said 'nobody would build for android', it turns out that was incorrect.

So where is Infinity Blade?

I can't believe you're still having so much trouble with this, I'll try to make it simple for you:
Does anybody build for Android? Yes, in fact a significant amount of people do. Hence the statement that 'nobody would build for android' is false.

How hard is that to understand?

Re:the specs and benchies are a YAWN by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-13 11:23 · Score: 0

Hence the statement that 'nobody would build anything worth while for android' is true.

Slashdot Mirror

Intel-Powered Smartphones Arriving Soon

182 comments