The Future of Hi-Tech Auto Theft

Yes, by Moheeheeko · 2012-01-12 07:36 · Score: 5, Funny

Yes I would download a car.

Re:Yes, by Hoi+Polloi · 2012-01-12 08:39 · Score: 2

Wait until 3D printer copies of your car start appearing. "Hey, he has the same bumper sticker and fast food wrappers in the front seat..."

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Re:Yes, by forkfail · 2012-01-12 08:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

What happens if the app store decides to disable your car, though?

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Re:Yes, by N0Man74 · 2012-01-12 11:18 · Score: 3, Funny

Yes, in the future, when 3D printers improve by leaps and bounds and when the Music and Movie industries have won and it will become illegal to hum copyrighted works in the elevator, we will see Public Service Advertisements that say...
"You wouldn't steal a song would you!? Don't steal that car! Downloading a car is illegal!"

what will they do with stolen cars? by alen · 2012-01-12 07:37 · Score: 4, Informative

one of the reasons auto theft declined is police busted and closed chop shops that took and resold the parts. and you can now buy cheap off brand parts for any car as well. not like anyone stole cars back in the day for personal use

Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 07:41 · Score: 2, Informative

Joyriding must be a foreign concept to you then...
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by hedwards · 2012-01-12 07:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

That's one, but around here it's increasingly common for cars to be stolen and then returned hours later after having completed a drug run in the stolen vehicle.
Beyond that bait cars and lojacks as well as other countermeasures make it a lot more likely that car thieves will be caught before they can profit from their crime.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by AlienSexist · 2012-01-12 07:47 · Score: 5, Informative

My understanding is that there is a very hot market for stolen whole cars in Asia, Mexico, and Central & South America. Driven across the border to Mexico for further distribution, sometimes by ship. Pickup trucks in particular are being taken for this purpose. You're right though. Most often cars are not stolen, only broken into for their contents or disassembled for valuable parts. Catalytic converter thefts have been very high because they contain various mixtures of platinum, palladium, rhodium and prices for those precious metals were very high. Just like there's been a huge rash in national copper thefts.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 07:58 · Score: 5, Interesting

Here in Texas, car theft is up because there is one type of vehicle highly sought after: Larger pickups, SUVs, and 4x4s in general. These are promptly taken to the border to smash through the excuse of a fence and to ferry weapons to Mexico, and narcotics/illegals back to the US. A good diesel 4x4 is prized down there because it can easily outrun police vehicles over the terrain. They also are taken to Mexico to be up-armored.
The trick I do with keeping the vehicle from being "borrowed" is the classic kill switch. However, I use two. One is for the fuel pump, the other one turns on and off the RFID antenna. This way, someone trying to clone a PATS key might get my key's serial number, but when they try to jam a clone in the vehicle, it will just give them the middle finger.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by CyberTech · 2012-01-12 08:35 · Score: 2

. Catalytic converter thefts have been very high because they contain various mixtures of platinum, palladium, rhodium and prices for those precious metals were very high.
Hmm...now, I'd not have a problem with them taking my catalytic converter off the car (leave me the car)...with less air restriction, I'd likely have more performance!!
And, not like I live where they do sniff tests on inspections....I've never lived where they do that..sounds like a PITA.
If your car is like mine was, they wouldn't need to do sniff tests. They'd hear you coming. My catalytic converter was cut out of my 4Runner while in the parking lot at work. I left work at around 4pm, started it up, and nearly shit a brick. It was the loudest vehicle I'd ever heard, I thought it was broken, lol!
Brought a friend out to listen while i started it, he's peering around, and says... "wtf, where's your cc?" Just a pile of metal shavings :)

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-- CyberTech
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by clm1970 · 2012-01-12 08:47 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yep. I had an older but still running Toyota pickup. I sold it to a couple of guys who were taking it to Guatemala. Make them come to the bank first so they could certify the bills were not fake as they insisted on paying in cash. DA's office said no known scam going around like that but it was a little freaky to say the least.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 08:53 · Score: 5, Informative

Joyriding isn't stealing. At least not in the UK. Theft (aka stealing) requires an intention to permanently deprive, which joyriding lacks. Joyriding is why the offence of taking without consent (aka TWOCing) was introduced.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by cayenne8 · 2012-01-12 09:15 · Score: 2

If your car is like mine was, they wouldn't need to do sniff tests. They'd hear you coming. My catalytic converter was cut out of my 4Runner while in the parking lot at work. I left work at around 4pm, started it up, and nearly shit a brick. It was the loudest vehicle I'd ever heard, I thought it was broken, lol!
Well, I guess I was thinking ahead...and just figuring to weld in a straight pipe in its place.
I guess a larger question of mine is..how do they manage to do this in public? I mean...someone in a parking lot under a jacked up car with a blowtorch to cut the thing out...would likely raise alarms anywhere I could think of....
I mean..is there no security in your work parking lot? Or at least..other people usually around? I just have a problem thinking of where my car would ever be parked where someone could come in, an cut my exhaust system apart to get pieces of it...I'd seriously never heard of this till this thread.

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Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by Shakrai · 2012-01-12 09:20 · Score: 5, Funny

That's one, but around here it's increasingly common for cars to be stolen and then returned hours later after having completed a drug run in the stolen vehicle.
The last time I parked my car in a New York City dirt lot it was returned to me with 30 extra miles on odometer. It was also washed, detailed and had a full tank of gas. I don't want to think about what they did with my car but at least they were polite about it....

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We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by johnny+cashed · 2012-01-12 09:25 · Score: 3, Informative

4runner is a truck, no need for a jack. They make pipe cutters with multiple wheels on a chain and a vise-grip like handle. It allows for plumbers to do repairs in tight spaces. Quiet, quick. Or just turn up your stereo while your buddy uses a cordless sawzall (TM).
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by Mashiki · 2012-01-12 09:49 · Score: 3, Informative

Here in Canada, auto theft is roughly the same. Most cars aren't chopped and sold. Anything from '09-99, they're devinned, and resold with a remarked vin from a wreck. Strip-vinning has long since gone out of style because it's a hassle, every part on cars made in the last 5 years or so has the VIN on it. From the windows, and bumpers, to the air and A/C compressor, down to the taillamp and wiring harness. So it did it's job. Their favorite targets are mostly cars/trucks/suv's in the '02-08 range where VINs were only stamped on engine/body frames. And where salvages are easy to find. So fair warning, see a deal, get it checked. And double check that dash VIN against the body, frame and engine. Otherwise, your vehicle is forfeit nearly everywhere to the owner, and you're out your money.
The new thing is to simply either pull up and drive away with the vehicle using a stolen tow, or they pay a tow driver on the side to dump a vehicle somewhere. And then strip out the computer and replace it with a new one along with a new keyset. These are then sold overseas, mostly in russia, china and the middle east.

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Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-12 09:59 · Score: 4, Funny

There's a truck in Texas with a kill switch, oh noes!

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by scharkalvin · 2012-01-12 10:22 · Score: 2

That reminds me of an episode of the "Top Cat" cartoon where the guys made money parking cars and renting them out for the day.
Re:what will they do with stolen cars? by CyberTech · 2012-01-12 14:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

Correct. They used a cordless tool to do it. There is video.. the only car that parked next to the truck all day only stopped for 90 seconds. That's all the time it took :)

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-- CyberTech

why is the CD player on the same network? by Trepidity · 2012-01-12 07:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's not clear to me why the CD player should even be on the same network as the engine-related microcontrollers.

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10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10

Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 07:45 · Score: 5, Informative

Sometimes the electronics to control certain parts of the car are in the stereo to keep you from upgrading the stereo. Ford, for example, uses strange oval shapes to keep you from replacing their crappy stereo. Chevrolet in the case of my old Monte Carlo put the door chime and some of the interior light controls in the stereo. The work-around Best Buy did in my car was to move the original stereo to the glove compartment and leave it connected to everything but the speakers. In my wife's Lexus, the car wouldn't even start without the radio. I gave-up on upgrade the stereo in it. Car makers these days go to great lengths to make sure you do not get good sound in your car and buy any upgrades from them.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by 427_ci_505 · 2012-01-12 07:55 · Score: 3, Informative

Depends on the car. The Corvette, for example, has three variants on the engine, each variant costing a different amount of money.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Ouchie · 2012-01-12 08:08 · Score: 3

The reason why the Car Stereo is on the same network is because too many people were buying cars with no stereo or the basic stereo then going to after market shops where they could get a much better stereo for the same amount of money. Manufacturers decided that to reduce this they would just make the car stereo a required part for the whole system to work. It gives you a good reason to pay $1200 for the stereo upgrade which we know isn't worth $600.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 08:10 · Score: 5, Informative

You have a great point about Chevrolet. I install stereos for a living, and Corvettes have some very creative protections against replacing the stereos. GM really wants you to have to suffer with the absolutely horrible Bose stock stereo. GM uses non-standard line out voltages in the Corvette so you can't connect the head unit to a real amplifier. Also, they place the amplifiers in the door which doesn't leave you with enough room to put even a tiny Alpine amp in the door even if you ignore the air flow problems. A real amp will fit under the seat but only if you have one of the few Vettes without power seats. In addition they use proprietary thin woofers in the doors which, of course due to physics, sound horrible. The speakers are a weird and complicated size so you have to fabricate mounting brackets. Also the speakers are a nonstandard impedance so you can't drive them with a standard car amp. Even with all of that work, GM decides to take the door and key chimes away from you if you replace the headunit.
What all of that means is if you want to upgrade or repair any single component, you must replace the entire system.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Lumpy · 2012-01-12 08:17 · Score: 3, Informative

nope.
It's on the bus to listen for vehicle speed so the active volume can go up and down. Advanced one spit out channel and RDS data for the HUD. there is zero possibility to send out a "lock up the breaks" command from the car stereo into the CANBUS unless you rewrite the stereo's firmware first. and that is not gonna happen, There are a LOT of guys looking to hack GM and Ford satnav systems to get past the damn CANBUS VIN lock. They have had ZERO success in the past 5 years.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by PseudonymousBraveguy · 2012-01-12 08:17 · Score: 2

Well, it is usually on a different (layer 2) network, but usually there is a gateway routing messages between the two. Why? Because the CD player is embedded in the entertainment system, and that system displays information from the engine (e.g. current mileage), or you may be able to configure your engine via the entertainment system (like switching your engine and gearbox to "sport" mode). However, the gateway does not blindy route any message to any network, there is usually a fixed configuration which message should be routed to which network.
Nevertheless, most development in the field is centered around safety, and not focused at security, so I'm not that surprised that vehicular networks are hackable.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by h4rr4r · 2012-01-12 08:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's a vette, why does it even have a stereo?
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Lumpy · 2012-01-12 08:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

Really? I seem to find it different.
Just helped a friend with his 2010 Vette 2 months ago, dingy thingy replacements are available at scosche for less than $25.00 so all your chimes are retained. Steering wheel controls are also easily adapted with a $79.00 box.
speaker upgrades are worthless as the Vette with premium sound that has the amps on the backs of the speakers sound better than any of the aftermarket stuff, speaker placement in the vette is crap anyways, $300 each drivers will not sound any better in that car, but it's easy to do with adapter plates from..... Scosche, that place again.
as for a "real amp" almost nobody puts in a 10,000 watt Rockford Phosgate anymore. replace the head unit with the new kenwood stanav one, hooked into the existing wiring for the speakers and simply removed the speakers and disconnected the "premium sound" amps.
All done. Anyone that has done car stereos in the past 2 years knows this, you dont have to " replace the entire system" not by a long shot.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Fahrvergnuugen · 2012-01-12 08:26 · Score: 2

Because the CD player connects to the steering wheel controls which connects to the ECU to set cruise control for your drive by wire throttle plate.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by BitZtream · 2012-01-12 08:31 · Score: 4, Informative

They aren't 'put in the stereo to intentionally make it harder' as you imply, but when you disconnect the stereo's internal bus, you do fuck up a portion of the cars' network.
GM really doesn't give a fuck if you put in a different stereo after you bought the car ... YOU ALREADY PAID FOR THE STEREO IN THE CAR.
Replacing the stereo is also rather trivial, you just need an interface kit that will interface your stereo with the cars data bus. These interface kits are well known (Best buy sells the damn things) and fit pretty much any car on the planet and make it work with any kind of stereo from old school analog systems to fully modernized systems with blutooth phone audio relays and text output to the display.
Its not the car makers that don't know what they are doing in your case, its you and best buy.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by BitZtream · 2012-01-12 08:35 · Score: 5, Informative

Wow, you are one of the worst 'stereo installers' I have ever fucking met.
You do realize there is an interface kit for every GM vehicle on the planet that will make it 'normal' or 'industry standard', right? Give you standard line outs, standard speaker outs, will still make sure that you get all your interface sounds piped through your speakers like door chimes and warning bells, blinker clicks, ect ...
Whats great is you're talking about them using weird speakers shapes in places where ... NORMAL SHAPES WON'T FIT.
What all of this means is that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
GM only has 2 or 3 interface busses for the dash electronics in their cars and there are interfaces for all of them. Get a clue about your job.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by garyebickford · 2012-01-12 08:36 · Score: 4, Funny

To entertain the arm candy.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 09:04 · Score: 2, Funny

To give you something to listen to when you're waiting for the tow truck.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by Archangel+Michael · 2012-01-12 09:29 · Score: 2

OR
Better yet, use the Microphone to pick up the Ambient noise, and generate a counter wave / noise cancellation in the stereo output to create a sound proof bubble around the cabin, making the ride even quieter than naturally occurring.

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Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by kimvette · 2012-01-12 09:50 · Score: 2

Every marque with the BOSE system will have the same problem for line-out voltage and impedance issues. For those systems all you need is a line-out converter.
Amplifier installation? Unless you're installing a monstrous amp, installing an amplifier in a Corvette is simple.
Speaker installs? Okay, slightly more difficult, but no more difficult than any other sportscar.
System sounds? Not a problem - multiple solutions exist for that. Just be glad the head unit in that car doesn't act as the hub for the CAN bus. The Corvette is far from the most complicated or challenging auto sound vehicle.

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Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by godel_56 · 2012-01-12 10:25 · Score: 2

The reason why the Car Stereo is on the same network is because too many people were buying cars with no stereo or the basic stereo then going to after market shops where they could get a much better stereo for the same amount of money. Manufacturers decided that to reduce this they would just make the car stereo a required part for the whole system to work. It gives you a good reason to pay $1200 for the stereo upgrade which we know isn't worth $600.
Similar to printer manufacturers and ink jet cartridges.
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by mijxyphoid · 2012-01-12 11:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

nope.
It's on the bus to listen for vehicle speed so the active volume can go up and down. Advanced one spit out channel and RDS data for the HUD. there is zero possibility to send out a "lock up the breaks" command from the car stereo into the CANBUS unless you rewrite the stereo's firmware first. and that is not gonna happen, There are a LOT of guys looking to hack GM and Ford satnav systems to get past the damn CANBUS VIN lock. They have had ZERO success in the past 5 years.
Ive been working on this for the past couple of months, and I have had success.
(Search for VE Commodore HVAC Radio Hacking on google).
Simply grap a SOP Clip, and an EEPROM programmer.
The VIN number is stored as plain text on the Radio, Cluster, BCM, and a few other modules....
The main reason why Manufacturers have been integrating the radio in to the vehicle, is because the radio is no longer just a radio, its an info/tainment center.
HVAC controls, Sat-Nav, Park Assist, Reverse camera, radio, Bluetooth Audio connectivity, Video in Motion prevention, etc....
On GM vehicles, there are two separate buses, the high speed GM LAN, which is used for critical stuff such as engine, transmission, brakes, stability management, etc....
Then there is the low speed BUS which is used for stuff like HVAC, Radio, Instrument Cluster, Body Electronics, etc.
What the article is trying to point out is that FORD for example, uses wifi to program its Ford SYNC (Windows CE) system at the factory.
Whether a wifi module is plugged in on the line, and removed later is anyones guess. However, all the Low speed (Non critical stuff) is usually accessible via the low speed can bus, such as locking/unlocking doors, and remote starting of the car (via the Body Electronics Modules) etc.....
Re:why is the CD player on the same network? by tehcyder · 2012-01-13 02:48 · Score: 2

Yay! Another computer analogy for cars. I love this thread, it's messing with some of the basic tenets of reality.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it

yo. by grub · 2012-01-12 07:40 · Score: 4, Funny

So the other day I was on the bus and I saw this hot woman driving a car. I pulled out the iPhone, SSH'd into home and ran nmap on her license plate.

LOL, stupid woman didn't notice her gas cap was left off from the last fill but nmap caught it. Used nc to push 'fire.jpg' into her tank and she blew up.

True story, fucker.

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Trolling is a art,

Re:Windows PC? by alen · 2012-01-12 07:41 · Score: 2

wonder if it has active directory connectivity? that would be so cool to add my car to the company's AD forest

Car security has been plummeting for ages by Riceballsan · 2012-01-12 07:43 · Score: 3, Informative

In many many ways we've been opening more security holes in our cars as time progressed, the wireless unlockers. Even if we pretend that wireless isn't heaven to sniff and spoof. People leave their keys out in all sorts of public places, not everyone locks them up at the gym, most people leave them unattended at a waterpark or beach etc... before wireless that was reasonable, no-one is going to steal my keys because there are 500 cars in the parking lot, nobody can try each one. now with wireless, if you steal someones keys, you can just walk around the lot and push a button to make it beep and find out where the car is.

Wrong demographic by prichardson · 2012-01-12 07:44 · Score: 2

I seriously doubt this will have much effect on car thievery. A jimmy and hotwiring are things pretty much anyone can do. On the other hand, hacking a car's PC is not a skill generally held by people who have an actual desire to steal cars. I expect a few very expensive cars will be stolen via high-tech means, but I wouldn't expect this to cause a noticeable change on cat theft rates for non luxury cars.

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Re:Wrong demographic by DMUTPeregrine · 2012-01-12 07:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

I think you're (somewhat) wrong. Initially it won't mean much, but just like pre-packaged malware suites for credit card fraud (ZeuS being the biggest example) point-and-drool interfaces for car theft will be made eventually.

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Not a sentence!
Re:Wrong demographic by heckler95 · 2012-01-12 07:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

The first guy to hack a car's PC needs to be skilled. Turn that into a black-market android app and all of a sudden the middle-school dropout who had trouble learning how to jimmy or hotwire can steal a car with the swipe of a touchscreen. It's just a matter of time.
Re:Wrong demographic by Lumpy · 2012-01-12 08:13 · Score: 2

no it's not.
there is ZERO connection from the BT to the car's operational CANBUS.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Wrong demographic by harl · 2012-01-12 09:07 · Score: 2

You're missing the point.

They don't have to. Does every criminal have to take apart a car door and figure out how to make a slim jim before they can start stealing cars?

One group will discover an exploit and make tools to automate the process. They will then spread them so people without skills to discover the exploit can exploit the exploit.

I don't have the skills to break DVD encryption but I can get the tools to do it in 5 minutes.

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I find being offended by me offensive.
Re:Wrong demographic by phoenix321 · 2012-01-12 09:38 · Score: 4, Interesting

Remember Stuxnet.
Covert assasination anyone?
Implant a well-disguised piece of trojan code inside an ECU of opportunity.
Have it triggered at a specific speed, at local nighttime. Disable brakes, lights, airbags and stomp on the accelerator. If any crash is detected, quickly recover the firmware to an original, untampered backup that was stored away somewhere beforehand.
Crash investigators will find nothing but "reckless speeding" to be the cause.
Re:Wrong demographic by lucifuge31337 · 2012-01-12 09:51 · Score: 2

Well, COULD do... back in the 80's. Starting a car by touching the right two wires in the igition harness ended around 1989 with the last of the carbureted cars. (I'm told that was a Subaru Justy.) A carbureted car could be started that way. Cars with electronic ignitions have more wires. And modern ones have anti-theft devices.
God dammit I hate when people on /. talk about cars. You are just one of the many who are so wrong you are even embarrassing ME .

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Re:Wrong demographic by Lumpy · 2012-01-12 10:01 · Score: 2

Says the man that knows NOTHING about car electronics.
CANBUS is a series of messages. you cant send "start the car" into bluetooth and have it seen on the CANBUS as a valid message as it will be wrapped in a "audio system" preamble and container.
come back when you have a clue as to what you are talking about.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:Windows PC? by kiwimate · 2012-01-12 07:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's a stupid flamebait analogy. The summary goes like this

* Windows PCs are as secure as a piece of tissue paper (LOL, for teh win!)
* Cars with their increasingly computerized systems are now becoming vulnerable to hacking.
* Windows PCs are vulnerable to hacking.

I don't quite get it by kav2k · 2012-01-12 07:45 · Score: 5, Funny

We need a car analogy here.

Re:Windows PC? by SQLGuru · 2012-01-12 07:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

The concept is that electronicly secured cars become wide-spread and common. It was why Windows PCs were attacked with viruses first. Now that Mac is more common, you see more attacks against them. It's why you see malicious Android apps. Soon, you'll start seeing malicious car apps......

It's all about wide spread opportunity. You need a lower percentage of successful attacks as the number of targets increases.

Re:Windows PC? by Capt.DrumkenBum · 2012-01-12 07:50 · Score: 2

Do that and when you leave the company, suddenly you can't start your car. :)

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If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?

MagnaVolt by sycodon · 2012-01-12 07:51 · Score: 3, Funny

I'll stick with my trusty MagnaVolt System.

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When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.

Re:MagnaVolt by DigiShaman · 2012-01-12 10:29 · Score: 2

Back in the late 90s, I remembering having a conversation with a car audio guy. He had a rather brilliant (if not deadly) idea. Run two exposed wires in parallel along the inside of the driver side door handle connected to the probes of a hidden taser (stun gun). When the would-be thief attempts to open the door, he get's a nasty little shock.
Only one problem with the idea. A semi-closed fist will clench harder when exposed to electricity. At least for AC current, not sure about DC however.

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Life is not for the lazy.

Re:Windows PC? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-12 07:54 · Score: 3, Funny

We had car analogies for computers, now we have computer analogies for cars.

Re:Figured this would have happen sooner by Lashat · 2012-01-12 08:08 · Score: 2

The reason this has not happened sooner is that remote start and auto-unlock are not the only features of OnStar. Key-fob/rfid cloning exists and is not prohibitively difficult. Remote engine kill makes initial get-away more difficult outside of a very small window of time. While vehicle tracking can find the vehicle after it has disappeared from the owners line of sight. Plus, exposes the chop shop location to the authorities.

Until it is possible to cheaply, easily, and quickly block/disable both GPS and cell signals to/from the vehicle after the theif comprimises the it, this high barrier to auto-theft will remain.

Criminals are VERY quick to change their m.o. in the face of tougher security. With many police forces adopting "no reponse with out confirmation" to burlgar alarms. It is much easier to burgle commercial and residential property.

Along the same vein: Watch an episode of "bait car". (one is all you really need) Where the police leave a car in a opportunistic way for a would-be theif to capitalize on the seemingly abandoned car.

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Ghost Dog by Massacrifice · 2012-01-12 08:20 · Score: 2

They have a movie about his. If you havent seen it, rent/download Ghost Dog : The way of the samurai. One of my best. Main guy steals Lexus with electro device he built himself.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165798/

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-- Home is where you eat your heart out.

Re:Ghost Dog by Massacrifice · 2012-01-12 16:43 · Score: 2

Stick with Armageddon, then.

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-- Home is where you eat your heart out.

Re:Sometimes hi-tech is not the best solution.... by CanHasDIY · 2012-01-12 08:34 · Score: 3, Funny

Well, here is the same, but in our case if a theft ring wants your car they just show up with a .22 on your window...

You must not live in a right-to-carry state, if thieves are carjacking folks with pea-shooters...

'Round these parts, that's the fastest way to get your ass blown off by someone with a real gun.

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Re:Sometimes hi-tech is not the best solution.... by istartedi · 2012-01-12 08:39 · Score: 2

On the Internet, nobody knows you're not a badass with a .44 at the ready under the driver's seat. (suppressed laughter). Yes we do. (open laughter).

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For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?

brakes.sys has caused a system error by Joe_Dragon · 2012-01-12 08:50 · Score: 2

To reboot the car trun key to off (soft switch)

If that does not work open hood and unhook battery

Re:Figured this would have happen sooner by Cramer · 2012-01-12 08:54 · Score: 2

OnStar is a GM brand. I'm told the Toyota/Lexus Enform/Safety-Connect system is run by OnStar. (on verizon's network.)

If you're going to boost a car thusly equiped, you'd be wise to remove or disable the thing FIRST. When manufacturers get wise and link the module into the anti-theft logic -- meaning the car won't work without it -- simply disable the radio/antenna. Not being able to start your car because it cannot see T-Mobile's network (for example) would never be accepted by customers.

Re:Figured this would have happen sooner by CanHasDIY · 2012-01-12 10:01 · Score: 2

OnStar is a GM brand. I'm told the Toyota/Lexus Enform/Safety-Connect system is run by OnStar. (on verizon's network.)

Duly noted.

If you're going to boost a car thusly equiped, you'd be wise to remove or disable the thing FIRST. When manufacturers get wise and link the module into the anti-theft logic -- meaning the car won't work without it -- simply disable the radio/antenna.

For the record (and the benefit of my fellow paranoids), you can actually request this equipment be disabled for you by the dealer prior to purchase, or by the owner if they know where to look. Of course, this is a moot point for those who actually intend to pay for and use the service, but personally I would never subscribe to a service that can arbitrarily disable my vehicle without my permission... among other, privacy related issues.

Not being able to start your car because it cannot see T-Mobile's network (for example) would never be accepted by customers.

Yea... I remember saying something similar when GPS devices started becoming ubiquitous in cell phones... 'surely no one will accept a phone with a built in tracking device!'

Ah, the naivety of youth..

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An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese

Old Skool solution by El_Oscuro · 2012-01-12 12:39 · Score: 2

After my father's 1963 Chevy was stolen, he installed a car kill switch kit. You can get them for modern cars too. Since you put the switch where ever you want, it would take a thief time to find it, and they won't be bothered. You can sometimes get a lower insurance rate too.

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"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."

Re:Old Skool solution by jackbird · 2012-01-12 16:19 · Score: 2

Ah, yes, the joy of puzzled phone calls from mechanics who you forgot to tell (or who didn't remember) that the car won't start without the rear defroster turned on.

bluetooth dongles on OBD-II by nazsco · 2012-01-12 14:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

always wondered. you can pretty much drive by some OBD-II ports... bmw can be started even by my old obd-I.

and lots of people buy those bluetooth dongles just so they can have an extra tachometer on their iphones on the dash.

may not be so usefull for stealing the car... as i doubt it has power when the car is off... but may very well be the case, i don't know. But imagine sending the acelerate signal on the highway to everyone around you that has such device

Disabling some alarm systems... by aaronb1138 · 2012-01-12 15:31 · Score: 2

Certain model Fords from the late 90's had the alarm (PATS) system in a separate module in the trunk. If you could jimmy the trunk open, all you needed to do was disconnect one harness.

This eliminated the need for the transponder key and disabled the alarm completely. Hot wiring the car from there is rather conventional and trivial.

Wasn't till the 2000s that they at least had the thought to add a bit in the ECU ROM or a bit switch (don't recall which) that told the ECU to require the security module.

A few other car makers had similar easy to defeat modular systems, but I'm not sure about years and makes from that time.

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