Slashdot Mirror
DHS Monitors Social Media For 'Political Dissent'
OverTheGeicoE writes "Recently, TSA's 'Blogger Bob' Burns posted a rant against a cupcake on the TSA blog. Perhaps it made you wonder if TSA and its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security, really understand what we're saying about them, especially online. Well, thanks to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit from the Electronic Privacy Information Center, we now know a lot more about how they monitor online comments aside from 'Blogger Bob.' EPIC has received hundreds of pages of documents regarding DHS's online surveillance program. These documents reveal that DHS has contracts with General Dynamics for '24/7 media and social network monitoring.' Perhaps it will warm your heart to know that DHS is particularly interested in tracking media stories that 'reflect adversely' on the U.S. government generally and DHS specifically. The documents include a report summary that might be representative of General Dynamics' work. The example includes summaries of comments on blogs and social networking sites, including quotes. Then again, you might remember J. Edgar Hoover's monitoring of antiwar activists during the Vietnam War, which certainly wasn't for the protesters' benefit."
From the government that brought us flag@whitehouse.gov. "Homeland security" is a tool used by a media-obsessed administration to justify its ever-increasing intrusiveness. This kind of robotic behavior in which common sense isn't allowed to override unreasonable strictness isn't making us safer, but it is making us miserable. Terrorist attacks have the word "terror" in them for a reason. The killing of innocent victims is just a vehicle for the ultimate goal of instilling paranoia and apprehension to influence behavior, and now we're fretting over jarred cupcakes. Mission accomplished.
This is a quote from a friend's mother, shortly after 9/11, in response to the absurd increase in airport security procedures. As long as people are willing to trade freedom for security, DHS and its ilk will prosper.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
DHS = STASI. And this is just the beginning. When it comes to the US government you can never be too paranoid. Yet another reason not to use facebook. But it's not just facebook I bet. Forums like this or any forums critical of the TSA are obviously being monitored for dissent. For 'domestic extremists', which really means anyone who would advocates abolishing the TSA or DHS.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
"Paranoia doesn't mean the whole world isn't out to get you."
I think Slashdot has become self aware.
The Gestapo (; abbreviation of Geheime Staatspolizei, Secret State Police) was the official secret police of Nazi Germany. Beginning in April 1934, it was under the administration of the SS leader Heinrich Himmler in his position as Chief of German Police (Chef der Deutschen Polizei). From September 1939 forward it was administered by the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) ("Reich Main Security Office") and was considered a sister organization of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD) ("Security Service") and also a suboffice of the Sicherheitspolizei (SiPo) ("security police").
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
The office of at least one of the more corrupt U.S. state Governors monitors online posts for politically unfavorable viewpoints and has even taken action against them.
Link to some more sources people
http://cryptome.org/2012/01/0035.htm
http://www.dhs.gov/files/publications/gc_1281732303362.shtm#3
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
this is why free speech can sometimes necessitate anonymous speech. Tt seems that the people in charge of the government are fearing revolution by the people more each and every day to me.
...so they can truly grasp the disdain they have earned.
SOPA? Really?
For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. - Publius
right.
Here's some dissent for you: Fuck You. Fuck you and everything related to this systematic destruction of civil liberties in the US.
they really have nothing better to do. government jobs I heard are boring. in between lunches and dinners, caviar, coke and hookers, they like to see what the rest of the world thinks about their pathetic existence. fuck off!
I'd expect them to read postings and keep an eye out for people threatening violence. That's a good thing. If someone stands up in a town square and yells that they're going to go shoot the mayor, I'd expect cops to take note. Where it becomes bad is if they harass or in any way mistreat people who aren't threatening violence. Is there any evidence that they're doing that?
That must have passed me by.
I can see why they'd show their reasoning behind it, so I can't really say they're "ranting" about it. Imagine if the TSA had to "rant" about every single one of their decisions they made? Wouldn't that be the transparency behind their decisions that we're hoping for?
The tone of the cupcake blog post seems a bit harsh, but the information conveyed and the link to past events which helped support such thinking is one I wish would come up in every single complaint we have against the TSA. By calling it "ranting", all you're doing is making it so they're even less likely to try to explain themselves after they take a questionable action.
Vote Ron Paul 2012
Liberty.
Just start adding this in everything you post online:
#PBUH #S.A.W.W.
If you wanna get really creative, add the full phrases in Modern Standard Arabic.
[End Of Line]
You're so right!
-The Choir
For the exception the occasional "law and order" conservative, very few of us here will disagree with you. Here's the thing, I know many people who think the government is really out to protect us. They really think that this monitoring of us is necessary and that if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about - really, I'm paraphrasing a programmer I used to work with and she's actually quite talented, too.
This security theater appeals to many people's emotional need to feel safe and there's no reasoning with them. I would be surprised if intelligence has anything to do with it because I've this fear pervade all levels of society. And as a democracy, excuse me, a republic, we are doomed to live under the tyranny of the scared huddled masses who feed off of the fear that is fed them by an irresponsible, profit hungry, corrupt media.
History is loaded with examples of people using people's fear to override their reason and their intellect. It has worked since the beginning of history and it saddens me that it will be true until the day we are extinct.
Isn't creating an account in a fictitious name illegal? Haven't people been prosecuted for this?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Hell no. They're hoping for it. At that point, they can declare martial law, and everything else goes down the tubes for the people who aren't involved in the revolution.
The only things they're worried about are (1) making sure they're still getting paid and (2) being out of town if the Revolution shows up and they have to nuke it.
I mean, I can't be the only one GLAD they took the cupcake from the woman, I mean yeah the reasoning behind it was absolute pointless paranoia and scaremongering, neither of which I agree with, but the result was nice. Have you been on an airplane in the US recently? Most of the passengers could do without the cupcake.
Monstar L
Have gnu, will travel.
... who honestly could not have seen this coming?
Check your premises.
The DHS is not now necessary, and never has been necessary. It is all bullshit which is
designed to keep control not of "terrorists", but of law-abiding citizens.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are about OIL, and that is all the wars are about.
The excuse that the above wars are "wars on terror" is bullshit only a stupid and gullible fool
would believe.
Ron Paul 2012 !!!!!
Neat! So the DHS actually does read the comments on the Blogger Bob page? I'd always thought they just had a web-monkey write some pabulum there to be left for the masses' consumption without ever checking on it again, so I never bothered to leave any comments telling the DHS and TSA exactly what I think of them and their not-quite-law-enforcement-officers' groping of perfectly innocent American daughters, wives, mothers and grandmothers in the name of security theater, their plans to irradiate travelers into mutant porno stars, and their generally asinine contributions to the apparently industry-wide effort of turning what used to be a glamorous experience full of wonder (indeed, a Jet Age) into a loathsome degradation of humanity seasoned with a dash of the presumption of guilt and a pinch of violation of civil rights once important to us as a culture. But, now that I know all the junior J. Edgars are on the case, reading my comments, I'll be sure to check back every day for new stories and to post new comments. Hell, Blogger Bob's TSA Blog might become my new Slashdot. This makes my weekend; it's gonna be more fun than roasting kittens on a Sunday.
PS - you know how to get through TSA security without the slightest chance of getting searched? Smile your biggest shit-eating grin. Seriously, just smile and seem like an inherently optimistic person. They do profile, looking for cranky old bitches who are more likely to vote according to their perception of safety and security. That's the whole point of security theater: to instill confidence in the sort of people most likely to appreciate security theater despite being outraged by it. I travel all the time and never get pulled for "enhanced screening," but every time, to a statistically uncanny degree, some old woman in line at about the same time does. It's always an old, white, middle-class woman. She's always dour looking, and I'm always (consciously) chipper.
Just sayin !!
For a country that honors dissent and freedom of expression, this interest can only involve documenting the success of the concept. This information will certainly be shared with the freedom loving peoples involved in the Arab Spring and for the Eastern Bloc heroes that are still struggling in the implementation of their success after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The nazi's would be DAMM PROUD of what america has become.
It's pretty disgusting.
Department of Hitler Shit.
Carnivore from the 90's?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29
Or how about this from the Air Force in 2006?
http://www.defense.gov/transformation/articles/2006-06/ta062906b.html
Big brother has been out there since the start of government and transcends all of the political spectrum.
is that it makes me feel even better about no longer working for General Dynamics.
In the blog post, the rationale against the transport of liquids had to cite historical examples (one from 6 years ago, another from 16 years ago) from outside the U.S. to justify the policy. They were unable to cite U.S. incidents that their policy has caught/prevented.
Bruce, S., please call "Security Theatre" on this. Thanks.
-- Terry
Well I guess I better not comment on this post then...
The first one exists and is going to cause more damage to the human race than every war, plague and natural disaster combined. It is a 200-year KT event, rather than a 200 millisecond one, but it is being portrayed as a non-existent issue by those who wish to profit in the short term, rather than serve society and humanity in the long term.
The second exists, but the threat to the human race as a whole is non-existent. It is being portrayed as a KT Event by those who wish to profit in the short term, rather than serve society and humanity in the long term.
[End Of Line]
I think they're missing the mark here. Just because social networks are juicy, low-hanging fruit doesn't mean they're going to find terrorists using them. Aren't most terrorists characterized by their anti-social behavior? People who have lots of social connections are less likely to have a desire to carry out a terrorist attack than someone who is isolated, anti-social and bitter. They're not going to find a terrorist plot posted on someone's wall with a time stamp and a description of the atrocities the person is mulling over. They ought to be looking at sites frequented by anti-social people who are isolated and bitter, like Sl... On second thought, Facebook sounds like a great resource to monitor!
During Obama's second term, DHS will assume authority and functions of DoC and DoI.
During Obama's third term, DHS will assume authority and functions of DoD and DoE.
During Obama's fourth term, DHS will assume authority and functions of DoJ, HHS and NSF.
During Obama's fifth term, DHS will determing that Obama and family are security threats. They
are killed, murdered to the delight of many, and DHS assumes authority and functions of
US Congress and DoT with the suspension of the US Constitution, all States and Territories and
assumes all ownership of Unites States of America citizens.
Lovely.
http://eccentricintelligenceagency.info/archives/2884 & http://eccentricintelligenceagency.info/archives/6074 -- Never mind their selling arms to narco-terrorists, and using backscatter vans on the US public. And surely FAST appeals to all. Right - o
Back in the day (90's) we heard about Echelon and that there were ~50 trigger words that set it to recording, well whether that is true or not the entire ISP (~200 people) I worked for at the time added these 50 words as a sig to each and every email.
Might I suggest we crowd source spoofing anti US articles to give DHS something to think about?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
DHS was going to monitor Islamic sites, but they couldn't figure out all the squigglies. Since the equipment was already bought, and the contract to their buddies were already handed out, they figured, fuck it, we'll us it to monitor Americans. At least we can understand the language.
The Bush administration ended 3 years ago. How could this happen?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I have had it with these motherfucking cakes on this motherfucking plane!
I take it that you like the taste of kool-aid.
Technically, conscription is a crime. There's no authority in the constitution to force people into the military. The fifth amendment prohibits depriving anyone of life, liberty or property without due process of law, and the thirteenth amendment abolishes involuntary servitude except for anyone who's been convicted of a crime.
Hmm. You'd think someone might've brought that up before.
Oh wait, Arver v. U.S., 245 U.S. 366 (1918).
"The possession of authority to enact the statute must be found in the clauses of the Constitution giving Congress power 'to declare war; ... to raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; ... to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.' Article 1, 8. And of course the powers conferred by these provisions like all other powers given carry with them as provided by the Constitution the authority 'to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers.' Article 1, 8."
War Clause and Necessary and Proper Clause, bitches.
"It may not be doubted that the very sonception of a just government and its duty to the citizen includes the reciprocal obligation of the citizen to render military service in case of need, and the right to compel it."
The case also goes on to analyze the history of conscription in England and in the Colonies and concludes that it is practically inconceivable that the forefathers did not intend for conscription to be part of the power to raise armies, instead only relying on voluntary service in them. It was explicitly in the state constitutions of 9 out of 13 colonies, and the failure of some stages to exercise that power in a timely fashion to fight the Revolutionary War was a point of major concern for the nation in its founding days. The War Clause was written to avoid that issue by putting the power of raising the army into the hands of the federal government.
At the end the case also dismisses the 13th Amendment argument outhand:
"Finally, as we are unable to conceive upon what theory the exaction by government from the citizen of the performance of his supreme and noble duty of contributing to the defense of the rights and honor of the nation as the result of a war declared by the great representative body of the people can be said to be the imposition of involuntary servitude in violation of the prohibitions of the Thirteenth Amendment, we are constrained to the conclusion that the contention to that effect is refuted by its mere statement."
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#Legality.
You know, instead of just shooting off your mouth based on half-assed personal readings of the Constitution without any regard for the idea that people who actually study it for a living might have actually considered the question before. Seems like every idiot with a political opinion thinks he's fucking Constitutional scholar lately...
perhaps the government can find some marines to piss on them.
I don't see a big problem with that as long as it's public information and as long as free speech laws protect what people say. It does suggest that they are getting too much money, though, if they can waste it on this.
In all fairness to DHS and its potential intentions, there isn't necessarily anything nefarious about the mere act of monitoring social media. What if the intent of the monitoring is introspective, actively seeking out criticisms of their performance with the intention of improving it?
I'm not saying the intent actually is that noble, but it could be, lacking damning proof to the contrary.
Why is Snark Required?
Cupcakes, cupcakes, cupcakes, CUPCAKES!
That would make a GREAT ringtone! :D
Anyway, USA air travel is ruined thanks to 9/11 so the final score is:
Osama: 1 [awarded posthumously per notification by POTUS Obama and Al-Qaeda] :(
USA Commercial Aviation: 0
CAPTCHA: pandemic [ Of fear due to a SPECTACULAR one-off attack that occured on 2001-09-11 in the USA]
What AC said about Kool-Aid.
Climate change has happened repeatedly in mankind's history. Climate change has been happening since long before mankind appeared, and will continue happening long after mankind has disappeared from the face of the earth.
Mankind is mostly irrelevant. It is possible that mankind has accelerated this one cycle of climate change a fraction of a percent, but it would be amazing if anyone actually had enough facts to demonstrate that as fact.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
I'M THE REAL ONE! Not the guy above me! He LIES!
Ten years ago, 19 hijackers armed only with box-cutters, took over 4 commercial aircraft and 3 of 4 of them into USA militarily & economically sensitive sites while eluding the entire NORAD defense organization, causing nearly 3 thousand deaths. At least, that is the official conspiracy theory, that through a series of extraordinary coincidences in near-perfect alignment, 9/11/2001 "just happened", "and that no one had any idea that such an event was even possible."
Ignored, discounted, and not investigated were such factors as (1) the USA 'Visa Express' program based in Saudi Arabia was used to bring Islamist fighters to the USA for military training for many years and, (2) the fact that at least 8 of 19 hijackers were still alive in the ME and merely victims of identity theft, (3) that 3 office towers built from concrete, steel, & glass fell symmetrically within their own footprints at very nearly the acceleration of gravity in a vacuum, and (4) that senior Bush regime officials were collaborators & signatories to the PNAC document which called for global military hegemony subsequent to a "new Pearl Harbor".
I don't mean to sound callus about the loss of those 3,000 people on 9/11/2001, but 200,000+ people per year die from tobacco-related illnesses, and 20,000+ people per year die from alcohol-related traffic accidents. We Americans have surrendered our birthright Constitution & Bill of Rights, and have waged "preemptive wars" for the past 10 years in 6+ countries, costing over $1.2 Trillion and over 5,000 servicemen killed & 100,000+ GIs seriously wounded. In all that 10 year period, no additional domestic terrorist attacks by foreign islamic terrorists have ever been consummated, and each serious attack attempted have been thwarted by alert civilians, not the USA police state.
How has this vast expenditure of blood & treasure, of the loss of individual freedoms, liberties, and inalienable rights, been worth the minimal risk of new domestic terrorist attacks? I don't see the value ...
I'm fucked, aren't I?
Oh well.
--
BMO
This President has orchestrated the greatest loss of individual rights since Stalin. The election can't come fast enough for me... And I will vote for whomever the Republican candidate is who is running against him. While I may not agree with whomever that will be - getting this fanatic out of power is more important than playing political games.
Yup Bush was an idiot. Yup Obama is keeping the same pro-wall street, spend happy policies of Bush. There is not much difference between the spending habits of rank and file Dems and Reps, except for a few drastic differences like Ron Paul. The two parties may want to spend on different things, but they really don't want to cut.
While the Tea Party did start last election cycle with Paul, it's been hijacked by various people trying to lead a grassroots headless organization. Some are bad and get attention in the worse ways. No different than the various occupy movements not having a specific leader.
But the core belief of a small gov that follows the constitution is valid. Yes Bush was a complete and utter idiot sockpuppet. How he was elected twice baffles me. But Obama really blew his hope and change. Senator O was against warrantless wiretaps, was against the Feds being involved with state legal rights for medical marihuana, was going to close Gitmo, was against the war in Iraq, was going to close redundancies in the government. 4 years later he's broken all of those promises. Yes we're out of Iraq, but it was at Bush's timetable and not any sooner. Oh and the money trail hasn't changed, Obama is still in bed with the same big business/big bank people Bush was. Obama's DOJ has even given up on prosecuting anyone responsible for the wall street disasters. Hell even his Obama care was all pro-big business. If it was a mandated government program that's one thing, mandating private companies for health care, and then limiting new hospitals for competition is obvious lobbying by the existing health care insurance system.
So if you're happy with Obama being basically a 3rd term of Bush and want one more, then vote Dem or any of the other Rep candidates. Want a chance for something different, go with Ron Paul
Lets talk smuggling, it happens, you would be a fool to deny it. Recently a couple was caught with small animals stuffed everywhere in the clothing and luggage. It is the job of customs to stop them. Surely nobody here thinks it is okay to smuggle endangered animals, a practice that not just endangers the smuggled animals but if they escape the local wildlife?
Now, there are some tourists stupid enough to carry illegal animals in broad daylight but the pro will try to hide them. How then to find them? Should customs only open those packages clearly labelled "contains illegal stuff"? No... they should use some kind of intuition to try to find normal looking packages that nonetheless contain illegal stuff.
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/collections/seized/display/girder.aspx a simple but funny example, a building girder filled with cigarettes. Lets not get bogged down in a discussion on drug laws, tariffs and what more. Customs has the task of enforcing the laws passed by government which was elected by the people. Want to change it? Vote for someone else then the guy promising tax cuts which never ever happen.
Smugglers are amazingly inventive in where they hide their goods. The double lining in the suitcase is very old hat and only used by the truly desperate (drug mules). There have even been cases of the pallets on which perfectly normal goods were transported to be stuffed with smuggled goods. Pretty clever, when looking in the package, do you ever look at the actual package itself? Hiding in plain sight.
Now, terrorists, they have a lot in common with smugglers as in that that want to get things past customs. But how? As the DHS article mentions but many a /. kiddie still can't accept, terrorist don't carry three sticks of a dynamite with an alarm clock attached. They will smuggle their bombs and weapons in anyway they think that might get past customs.
You get a lot of armchair kiddies screaming when a child is padded down but there have been numerous documented cases of children, even babies being used to carry smuggle ware. If people are willing to cut open a child to stuff it with drugs for a few bucks, then why would a religous extremists who believes his actions are sanctioned by god not do the same? Terrorists now have higher morals then drug smugglers?
How then do you stop them? We know from history that when airport security was lax, hijackings were the norm. Ask yourself why El-Al has a very good record on not getting hijacked regardless of being the most obvious target for Islamic extremists? Because the DHS is childsplay compared to El-Al security.
People that think that a cupcake in a jar can't possibly be a bomb really should visit a museum on smuggling or espionage. Info from WW2 is slowly being released and while most of the stuff seems old hat because movie writers showed them to the general public first, the real thing shows that they were really used.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/kUfgCl7bRaaYVYUocLy-iQ this might look quant to us, a radio in a suitcase but once this was high tech stuff and you had better not be the german soldier who thought "oh that is just a suitcase, no need to look inside". The secret hidden in the everyday to avoid closer inspection.
The fact is that bombs can be disguised and that how the next one will be disguised is up the ingenuity of people with nothing else to do who can afford to be wrong 100 times for the 1 time they get it right. 2 documented and proven cases of liquid bombs on aircraft exist (note that the deniers don't even mention the Philippine case because you know, 2 proven cases might not go well with a denial) can "we" afford a 3rd one with a more lethal result?
1 person is dead because customs failed to stop one bomb. If it was someone you cared for (and gosh it says a lot about you if you say you don't care someone died) would you have wished customs had done a better job?
There is a threat, it relies on its effectiveness on being difficult
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The cases for making nuclear reactors more safe are from more ancient history and from other parts of the world as well.
And single the only nukes ever fell on Japan by US bombers clearly the US is safe from nuclear attack?
Congrats on a near perfect example of thinking the US is not part of the rest of the world. Hope your magic border stops things that happened elsewhere from happening within your country.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Like many a carebear you do not get what racism really is.
"95% of black males in Washington are criminal" is NOT a racist statement IF it is true. If it is true, then it is simply an observation of fact.
"95% of black makes are criminal" has a small chance of not being racist but since it is highly unlikely the 95% of mid/south Africa males are criminal, it most likely is racist.
Racism: Blacks can't see well at night and are therefor not suited to be soldiers.
Medical diagnosis: This black person suffers from night blindness.
The first btw was a real racist piece of dogma that was used to keep blacks out of the American army pre-WW2.
It is extremely dangerous for people trying not to be racist to fall over into the overly politically correct and start to deny facts. The high crime rates among blacks MIGHT be racial OR they might be cultural OR they might be economic, but you can't deal with them unless you are able to acknowledge the numbers exist.
Japanese can't hold their liquor. Racist? No, it is a medical fact, the japanese have a lesser capability to digest alcohol, making them drunk sooner even if accounting for possible differences in body mass. So... if implenting safe alcohol levels, do you go politically correct OR be a racist?
Well, we ARE sexist. When stating save drinking levels, men are told they can drink more glasses then females. Should we advise Asian women to drink even less to be under the limit? Why not?
I am not defending Ron Paul. Far from it, I agree with your assesment. BUT to properly fight racists you got to fight them with the absolute truth not with how you would want the world to look.
Don't deny that in areas where the poor are mostly black, most of the blacks are also poor. Show that in areas where the poor are mostly white or another race, the crime statistics reflect this as well. Don't descend to the bigots level by manipulating figures.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Boobs? Di dyou say "with boobs?" They don't get too many "terrorists" with boobs down in Gitmo, but I'm sure the boys from LeJeune will enjoy the extra accessories. Please stand by; two guys on a motorcycle will be by to place you on a special flight, shortly...
Thank you. I always find it fascinating that the people behind that incident managed to do it with what amounted to change found in the sofa, while our 'leaders' have taken out the equivalent of a third-mortgage and have little to show for it. No major reforms regarding asymmetric warfare, just business as usual.
I am John Hurt.
The response to 9/11 should have been to fire a couple of cruise missiles at the White House and Capitol Hill. Granted it would have been disruptive, but likely far less so than allowing the government to pursue poorly planned and insanely costly (lives and money) military adventures abroad while passing draconian legislation at home.
If you want government to think about something, you strategically emplace words and phrases likely to trigger their interest...comes from a background rich in FLR-9s, I suppose. Of course in a venue such as /., that might be a bit of a wasted effort; the site is a "trigger-rich" environment. And there is no way to prove one way or the other if you have had any effect; in fact, my simply thinking that the approach might be a useful tool may be naught more than an indication of megalomania.
lollll...whatever; in any event, you might amuse an analyst - and believe me when I say they are likely appreciative of a break from the tedium.
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
I was with you until you mentioned the cost of 1.2 trillion. Using your own death percent logic, 1.2 trillion is only 7% of our debt. I am a hell of a lot more pissed about the spending that caused the other 93%. My point is....I echo everything you said (to many friends and family) but I stopped with adding the financial impact.....because to be honest....its nothing compared to the other reckless spending.
Don't post it on public fora.
If I go and post a manifesto in public declaring my intent to commit some crime, the cops are perfectly within their rights to read it.
You pychos with your 9/11 conspiracy theories are the new Holocaust deniers. The only thing remotely as weird as you believing that shit is people modding you +5 for it.
DHS? TSA? Please, write out these acronyms. Not all /. readers live in the USA or have Wikipedia plugged into their brains.
Thank you. I always find it fascinating that the people behind that incident managed to do it with what amounted to change found in the sofa, while our 'leaders' have taken out the equivalent of a third-mortgage and have little to show for it.
I'd take that as evidence that 9/11 wasn't planned by The Government! Since when did The Powers That Be understand "Keep It Simple, Stupid?"
What I find fascinating is the way that The Government can pull off these hugely complicated conspiracies perfectly, but can't find its arse with both hands when it comes to otherwise running the country.
Of course, that's exactly what they want you to think.
Cynically taking advantage of a real incident for political ends, now, that's another matter...
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Psychos, really? That would make you a Cheney sycophant, a paid troll, or a co-conspirator. There is a cadre of small but influential groups that routinely dredge up the aspersion "Holocaust denier" charge as their primary method of squashing any dissenting views, without merit, I might add. The least credible conspiracy theory about 9/11/2001 is the official government version.
I challenge you to explain how WTC Building 7 collapsed into its own footprint symmetrically and at near free-fall speed. TV reporters live at the time publicly remarked that the WTC 7 collapse exactly resembled a controlled demolition. If one building was rigged for controlled demolition, it is hardly a stretch of the imagination to conclude that all 3 WTC buildings were similarly wired.
WTC 7 was the only one of three office towers on 9/11/2001 to not have been struck by an aircraft. All three WTC office towers, constructed of steel beams, concrete, & glass are the only such structures in history to collapse from office fires -- and not just collapse, but to collapse symmetrically into their own footprints.
Finally, please answer the question "cui bono?" (Who benefits?) It certainly was not Osama Bin Laden, al-Queda, the Taliban, the Iraqis, or the American people. There is a whole long list of persons, corporations, and several governments that have benefitted -- in regard to money, power, political influence, and regional hegemony.
Right. It's so much simpler to blame cave-dwelling Islamist fundamentalists living in the middle of BumF*ckIstan, to precisely coordinate their terrorist attack 7,000 miles away with NORAD drills pertaining to: "multiple hijacked commercial aircraft".
You just broke your K.I.S.S. principle. If you follow all the evidence, all the purposefully missing evidence, and answer the question: "who benefits?", you will arrive much closer to the truth. Your response should be a textbook / dictionary example of the term "cognitive dissonance".
that is why the average person needs too rise up and vote from the roof tops and end this government.
the government is run by elitists that are ungoverned, unless we the people do so...
Technically, *many* things the government does are crime. Fortunately for the government, the Federal governments gets to interpret the extent of the Federal government powers and the "living meaning" of the Constitution, which contains enough ambiguous clauses to twist out just about any meaning desired. The result: a steady increase in the scope and reach of Federal power and a steady loss of liberty.
And I think you missed the point, anyway. There's one standard of "crime" for mundanes, and another standard of "crime" for the State. Saying, "well, it's technically a crime but they reserve the authority to do it, anyway" is exactly the problem.
You just broke your K.I.S.S. principle.
Your parents managed to keep you simple and stupid.
unless you're a fscking thought criminal.
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
...Is another man's "domestic terrorism", or "hate speech".. or several other labels that lets the government take it down, and detain the writer/contributors ( and soon.. mere readers of such forbidden fruit )
All for your protection.. save the children.. !
---- Booth was a patriot ----
do I live in? Alex Jones was correct??
This sucks.
Are they going to start setting up the Gulag's in Alaska?
1. Pseudoscience (PSS)
2. FUD
3. Blatant Marketing (BM)
4. Security Theatre
5. Gibberish (GBS)
6. Shill Planted Story (SPS)
7. No, I am not playing along with your false premises and false conclusions
8. Discussion Management
9. Propaganda (PRAVDA)
10. 'New Normal' Alert / 'It's Inevitalbe' Alert - Culture Benders at work
11, 'We" Alert - No you do not speak for everyone, the group or me.
12. Illogical. Non Sequitur
13. Fantasy
14. Projection
15. Delusion. Wishful Thinking
16. Apocalyptic Porn. Fear Mongering
17. Stereotyping: ie: People cannot be smart AND good looking AND sociable AND hacker gods.
18. IT haters
19. Utopian
20. Bullshit
There is no 'Dissenting' against Truth.
You're a nutter, and here's why. Keep in mind, I believed the same thing for a bit, let me show you a different way of thinking about it that makes far more sense.
First, the NIST and Popular Mechanics together have done a lot of coverage and explanation, there are links in the article and at the bottom for more reading. Take this information, buy the nearest structural engineer an expensive dinner, and let him/her explain, without interruption, why it is a valid conclusion.
The short version: jet fuel burns really hot, explosives powerful enough to bring the buildings down would have been heard, the fires alone were enough to cause progressive structural problems even without physical damage. Many myths are debunked here. In particular, This page explains the free-fall speed simply, to my satisfaction.
Now, that leaves use with the PNAC, identity theft, and Visa. I don't know about the Visa program, and nothing you've said makes me want to filter through any more nonsense. If you are a hijacker, it makes sense to go under an assumed identity if you've also been caught or monitored or basically would raise any red flags. The fact that you called it identity theft instead of claiming they were names picked from a hat to represent people who weren't actually on a plane is a little progress. Someone boarded the planes under those names. This is not evidence of anything.
PNAC is the most troubling, and by far the only factor in your post to be concerned about. The turf war between intelligence agencies allowed lots of things to happen which would not have been caught, and correcting that should have been the most action to come out of 9/11. At worst, you could claim this was intentional, and the attack was allowed to continue beyond the point that it was discovered, in order to support PNAC's goals. I am 100% certain that someone, somewhere, watched this unfold, and thought, there's our new Pearl Harbor. Whether they failed to act intentionally or not is entirely conjecture, and cannot be proven reliably either way.
So here's what you do. Suggest first that the reaction was assymetric, everyone will agree. Suggest second that this was a help to the goals of PNAC, and we have documents to support that. Third, suggest that it is not impossible that someone just didn't try hard enough to stop this, whether it was intnetional or incompetence. They don't have to buy the intentional PNAC part, just that someone didn't do everything they could (which is obvious from the infoturf wars).
At that point, you don't need a conspiracy theory to support the claim that the sum total of everything that happened was *in part* a logical extension of PNAC's goals of subjugating the citizens. Everything else is irrelevant. You can deal with the rest, how much was known and allowed vs. how much was just noise in a vast intelligence wasteland, however you want.
The power grab is complete, and didn't need a conspiracy to help. One rich pissed off Saudi who was trained, armed, and abandoned, gave them everything they needed *and more*.
Are you stupid, or trolling?
All these 'questions' have been answered.
I challenge you to explain how WTC Building 7 collapsed into its own footprint symmetrically and at near free-fall speed.
It fell... down... because gravity pulls ... down.
It didn't fall at ' near free-fall speed' (depending on your definition of 'near', of course.)
TV reporters live at the time publicly remarked that the WTC 7 collapse exactly resembled a controlled demolition.
Oh, something resembled something else, therefore it MUST be that thing.
If one building was rigged for controlled demolition, it is hardly a stretch of the imagination to conclude that all 3 WTC buildings were similarly wired.
None of them were. Controlled demos take week/months of time to set up. Beams and supports are pre-cut, and the remaining ones uncovered so explosives can be planted on them. This process, simply put, would be IMPOSSIBLE in an occupied building.
WTC 7 was the only one of three office towers on 9/11/2001 to not have been struck by an aircraft.
So? It was, you neglect to mention, hit by debris from the other towers.
All three WTC office towers, constructed of steel beams, concrete, & glass are the only such structures in history to collapse from office fires
The Twin Towers were a unique design, not like other towers.
-- and not just collapse, but to collapse symmetrically into their own footprints.
Of course the collapse downward. You really expect the Towers to topple over like dominoes??
Finally, please answer the question "cui bono?" (Who benefits?) It certainly was not Osama Bin Laden, al-Queda, the Taliban, the Iraqis, or the American people.
The terrorists benefited. Using There is a whole long list of persons, corporations, and several governments that have benefitted -- in regard to money, power, political influence, and regional hegemony.
[citation needed]
Instead, you blindly believe the conspiracy theory handed to you by the government, without considering any actual evidence or using your own brain. There are literally DOZENS of impossibilities and extreme unlikelinesses in the official story. Have you read the 9/11 Commission's report? I have. It states blatant falsehoods, and backs them up with references which, if actually read, clearly contradict those falsehoods. My conclusion is that anyone who actually believes the official conspiracy theory either has more faith in their government than in their own senses and logic, or cannot fathom the concept that people in positions of power would ever do something against "their own" people. Why would finding a passport in the streets after a couple buildings blow up prove the identity of someone on a plane? Isn't it more likely that the owner of the passport was in one of the buildings? Why was the collapse of building 7 reported before it happened? Why did THREE steel and concrete buildings collapse perfectly on their footprints in one day, when no other building in the history of the world has done the same without meticulous intentional preparation? Even when professional demolition crews take down buildings, if one little thing doesn't go as planned the building falls off center. It's virtually impossible for that to happen by accident. If ONE fell straight and the others tipped it would likely be a fluke, but all three is just too far fetched. Do a little research, and beware of logical fallacies. I've heard a ton of "anti-conspiracy-theory" arguments pertaining to 9/11, and many of them SOUND good, but not a single one passes the logical fallacy test. Ever.
Seems like every idiot with a political opinion thinks he's fucking Constitutional scholar lately...
I blame armchair commentators and largely right wing talking heads.
It's largely a huge side effect of American libertarianism and this weird worship they have of saying the Constitution is a document that boldly and singularly limits the power of the Federal Government nearly completely... When that's not true at all. The Constitutional Congress of 1787 wasn't a bunch of single minded people, and they were all certainly not anti-Federalists either.
The Constitution is a contradiction unto itself. For example, want to regulate the emissions of greenhouse gasses by automakers? Commerce, Necessary and Proper clauses.
Think the Federal Government has no authority to regulate greenhouse gasses? 10th Amendment.
Constitutionally they're both sound, valid and correct arguments, however, the reality on the ground is, 50 states aren't going to hammer out and agree on even standards of legislation. Some states won't even recognize there's a problem.
There are some things that the constitution is ADAMANTLY clear about. The first 8 amendments, Habeas Corpus, Interstate Commerce and coining money...
But for nearly everything else, we're kind of on our own.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I challenge you to explain how WTC Building 7 collapsed into its own footprint symmetrically and at near free-fall speed.
Well, mostly because it didn't do either of those things. After having several tons worth of burning WTC 1 and 2 falling on it, the fuel stores in the WTC7 ignited. Now, why would some idiot put fuel stores into WTC7? Ask that dumb fuck of a mayor, Rudy Giuliani.
TV reporters live at the time publicly remarked that the WTC 7 collapse exactly resembled a controlled demolition.
All those TV reporters with their advanced construction and engineering degrees. To the average joe, yes, it may have looked like it was controlled. To people who actually know what they're talking about, it was anything but.
If one building was rigged for controlled demolition, it is hardly a stretch of the imagination to conclude that all 3 WTC buildings were similarly wired.
Sorry, I can't fix stupid.
Posting ultimatums, in bold, on slashdot, will accomplish absolutely nothing. Ever.
If you care enough to make your font bold....do you care enough to donate money to a lobby that supports your cause? To invest your time in awareness-raising campaigns? To do anything that might actually make a difference?
Actually, many of them were essentially self-employed farmers and craftspeople, so they had flexible schedules:
"Noam Chomsky: Wage Slavery = Chattle Slavery"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oztdRo9GLLk
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery
"However, self-employment became less common as the artisan tradition slowly disappeared in the later part of the 19th century. In 1869 The New York Times described the system of wage labor as "a system of slavery as absolute if not as degrading as that which lately prevailed at the South""
Wonder why that fact was not emphasized in your history class? NYS Teacher of the Year John Taylor Gatto says:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/16a.htm
"I'll bring this down to earth. Try to see that an intricately subordinated industrial/commercial system has only limited use for hundreds of millions of self-reliant, resourceful readers and critical thinkers. In an egalitarian, entrepreneurially based economy of confederated families like the one the Amish have or the Mondragon folk in the Basque region of Spain, any number of self-reliant people can be accommodated usefully, but not in a concentrated command-type economy like our own. Where on earth would they fit? In a great fanfare of moral fervor some years back, the Ford Motor Company opened the world's most productive auto engine plant in Chihuahua, Mexico. It insisted on hiring employees with 50 percent more school training than the Mexican norm of six years, but as time passed Ford removed its requirements and began to hire school dropouts, training them quite well in four to twelve weeks. The hype that education is essential to robot-like work was quietly abandoned. Our economy has no adequate outlet of expression for its artists, dancers, poets, painters, farmers, filmmakers, wildcat business people, handcraft workers, whiskey makers, intellectuals, or a thousand other useful human enterprises -- no outlet except corporate work or fringe slots on the periphery of things. Unless you do "creative" work the company way, you run afoul of a host of laws and regulations put on the books to control the dangerous products of imagination which can never be safely tolerated by a centralized command system."
We have not just lost what we had. We have lost the memory of what we had...
As John Gardner says, every generation must learn again for itself what the words on the monuments mean...
"Self-Renewal: The Individual and the Innovative Society"
http://books.google.com/books?id=U5hXpnwUmW4C
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
How about some real security? Security from unemployment, from medical bankruptcy, from foreclosure.
We could have spent a third of that 1.6 Trillion to give us security from crumbling infrastructure (and make a good dent in unemployment). Security from insurance of all kinds reneging on the deal as soon as a claim is filed would be good.
How about some financial security for middle class households? Why doesn't the 'family values' party value the family enough to make sure the parents have time to be with their kids and that it's not spent worrying about the mortgage?
Shadowy government agent #1: "We need more oil. Let's invade Iraq."
Shadowy government agent #2: "We need an excuse first."
Agent #1: "OK - let's rig the Twin Towers with explosives, making sure none of the thousands of people who work there sees us doing it. Then let's brainwash some Saudis to hijack two planes and fly them into the towers. Then we'll set off the charges and collapse the buildings."
Agent #2: "Why bother with making sure the buildings collapse? Plenty of people will die when they fly planes into them. That should get the world on our side."
Agent #1 "Because there won't be enough people in on the conspiracy with just a simple kamikaze attack. We want to have hundreds of contractors, suppliers, demolition experts, security guards, fire department personnel, building supervisors, etc, etc to bribe to keep quiet for at least ten years."
Agent #2: "Um, OK. Shall we attack another building too?"
Agent #1: "Yes. Let's fire a cruise missile at the Pentagon during morning rush hour."
Agent #2: "Not in the middle of the night when no one would see it?"
Agent #1: "No."
Agent #2: "But there'll be lots of witnesses."
Agent #1: "Don't worry. We'll pay them all to say it was a Boeing 757. And we'll knock down some lampposts on the highway overpass too, because I've just realised a cruise missile doesn't have the same wingspan as a 757. Oh, and we'll confiscate some CCTV footage to make people think we're hiding something."
Agent #2: "But don't we always confiscate CCTV footage when we're investigating something?"
Agent #1: "Yes. But this time, for some reason, it'll be suspicious."
Agent #2: “But if we fire a cruise missile, that would leave a 757 unaccounted for.”
Agent #1: “No problem. We’ll just hijack one ourselves and fly it somewhere like Andrews Air Force Base or Area 51 or somewhere like that, dismantle it, kill all the passengers, burn the luggage and then transport all the wreckage to the Pentagon to scatter around as evidence.”
Agent #2: “I see.”
Agent #1: “Also, because the towers have a lightweight steel tube framework to allow them to sway in the wind, and the Pentagon is made of reinforced concrete, a lot of LiveLeak users will be confused by the different impact shapes. So they’ll be happy to believe in the cruise missile.”
Agent #2: “Um.”
Agent #1: “What’s up?”
Agent #2: “Why don’t we just, er, actually fly another plane into the Pentagon? I mean, by that stage people will already have seen two jumbo jets fly into the Twin Towers, so I don’t see the problem with using a third.”
Agent #1: “For Christ’s sake, how many times do I have to tell you? We want things as complicated as possible so clever people on the internet can spot the holes in our plans.”
Agent #2: “Ah, right.. Sorry. OK, I’ll go get the brainwashing machine and kidnap some Saudis, then we’re good to go.
The supreme court often fails to defend our rights, and this is just one more example. Go read what Daniel Webster had to say about conscription, you pompous ass.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
military industrial complex bot must perpetuate itself
Yeah, so because Flight 77 was really flown into the Pentagon, that explains how Building 7 came down. DHS Sockpuppet much?
Social Credit would solve everything...
My conclusion is that anyone who actually believes the official conspiracy theory either has more faith in their government than in their own senses and logic, or cannot fathom the concept that people in positions of power would ever do something against "their own" people.
Well, I guess your conclusion is just about as simple and ignorant as your reasoning.
I have no love for the government and know they're up to no good at every turn, and I'm one paranoid pot smoking mother fucker...but the WTC attacks was not a fucking controlled detonation. Yeah, that's my senses and reasoning at work telling me this. I guess I must just be a moron because I weighed all the evidence and came to a different conclusion than you.
Hilariously predictable: A federal agency more interested in identifying individuals who might foment criticism of the agency itself than in identifying actual terrorist threats.