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Town Turns Off the Lights To See the Stars

Hugh Pickens writes "Stargazing skies all over the world are disappearing, as the sky above New York City is Class 9 on the Bortle ranking and American suburban skies are typically Class 5, 6, or 7. But some places are making an effort to preserve their skywatching heritage as Exmoor National Park was granted International Dark-Sky Reserve status in November and people in the Exmoor town of Dulverton were challenged to switch off their lights as part of the BBC's Stargazing Live, demonstrating that you don't need special equipment to see the stars more clearly, if you have a decent pair of binoculars. 'The whole idea is to show that even a small town, which is still quite dark, can give off quite a lot of light,' says astronomer Mark Thompson. The event in Dulverton gained a lot of support from local residents and businesses. 'It needed a bit of organization to get everyone to say yes,' says town mayor Chris Nelder. 'We want people to just enjoy the night sky, to treasure the fact we have them and to look after them,' adds Claire O'Connor from Exmoor National Park Authority."

38 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds awesome! by chrissfoot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wish my town would do this from time to time!

    1. Re:Sounds awesome! by XrayJunkie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. Its a great event especially for the kids. Maybe there will be more events of this kind in other cities/countries. But limited to small towns - you need a lot of people to agree switching the lights off.

    2. Re:Sounds awesome! by datavirtue · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I live in the country so I get a fairly good look at the sky. However, when I first moved into my house the first thing I did was go outside and shoot the mercury bulb with a pellet gun. The power company installs a "house light" on every property and they charge you about $10 a month to run it. I called and had them remove it later on. I told them it blew up one day and I didn't want it for safety reasons. Tried to get the neighbor to get rid of his, but he never looks at the sky so what does he care.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    3. Re:Sounds awesome! by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 3, Funny

      You would be amazed to see the difference between the sky above a city or town and what it is like out in the country well away from lights but also from air pollution. When I go out of Silicon Valley, where you can see some stars, down to Pacheco Pass in the mountains southeast of the area, the difference is immense. You can see the Milky Way in all its glory, and then you realize what you see in the city is like having a gauze bandage around your head. Once the Illuminati kill off 99% of the population, those skies are going to be spectacular! Well worth it, I say.

    4. Re:Sounds awesome! by somersault · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most people are usually more worried about chopping off their fingers, falling down the stairs, and being able to watch TV.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Sounds awesome! by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've lived in cities all my life and AFAIK, I've never seen the Milky Way. I wouldn't even know it was supposed to visible in the night sky if I hadn't seen pictures of it in books. Human's have done amazing things to adapt to our environment, and we've become the most adaptive species in the planet's history. But there is always a cost, unfortunately.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Sounds awesome! by jefe7777 · · Score: 5, Funny

      maybe his light needs to have an unfortunate accident...

    7. Re:Sounds awesome! by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd be most worried about car accidents. My wife can barely see at night with the lights as they are.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    8. Re:Sounds awesome! by camperdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This summer, go out camping. And by camping, I don't mean parking a motorhome next to an electrical hookup. I mean the "What do you mean you forgot the coffee? It's a four hour canoe trip and three portages back to the car, you numbskull!" kind of camping. Then take a midnight paddle on a clear windless night when the lake is as still as glass. You'll see the stars above, and the stars reflected in the water below. It is magical.

      It's even better if you can get away in the winter, because the cold dry air doesn't hold as much pollution.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    9. Re:Sounds awesome! by LordNimon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You watch too much TV. Most criminals are not sophisticated enough to operate in darkness. Turning off more lights tends to be a deterrent, since the criminals can't see anything.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    10. Re:Sounds awesome! by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, 'security' lights are great for muggers and rapists. There's nearly always somewhere to hide in the shadows and the bright lights make sure pedestrians don't get dark adapted enough to see them there.

    11. Re:Sounds awesome! by gnick · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In White Rock (outside Los Alamos, NM), this is done every 2-3 months during the new moon. There's a large park (Overlook Park for anyone who cares) with no nearby houses. The street lights all go dark and the local astronomy nerds all bring out their telescopes (starting at about $1k and going well beyond $30k) to train on interesting stuff in the sky and talk to anyone interested about their gear and whatever they're trained on for people to come see. Really nice event for nerds and families alike. Nerdy families especially.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  2. Nice, but... by Aladrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's nice, but aren't the lights on for safety reasons? I mean, if they weren't serving any use, people wouldn't have them in the first place.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:Nice, but... by biodata · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It could just be security theatre. People are evolved/inculcated with fear of the dark, so lights make them feel safer. Is there any good evidence to show that providing street lighting makes things safer than people carrying their own light with them?

      --
      Korma: Good
    2. Re:Nice, but... by HopefulIntern · · Score: 5, Informative

      That was my comment on the BBC article (which was subsequently voted into oblivion). The street near my friend's house has had its street lighting turned off at night recently (though for energy-saving purposes, not stargazing) and within a month there were two rapes and an assault right there on the street. It is not something I would have thought of right away, but speak to any woman who has ever had to walk home at night, alone, and they will tell you they feel much safer under street lights.

    3. Re:Nice, but... by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Informative

      National Geographic mentioned this in an article on this a few years ago on light pollution (I'm too lazy to go find it). A lot of cities are slowing making the transition to lights that only shine downward and waste little into the sky. It's serves the dual purpose of 1) saving energy and 2) cutting down on light pollution.

    4. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The main reasons for street lighting is to make obstacles and pedestrians more visible to motorists, to allow pedestrians to move around without carrying a torch, and to make them feel safer.

      In this case, they'd closed the roads around the town for this stunt, so no need for worrying about cars, and a good fraction of the population of the town was out on the street, so there were fewer empty dark back alleys down which to get stabbed (plus it's a small rural town; if it's anything like mine crime is generally livestock related...), and everyone there knew about it months in advance, so I'd expect they were stocked up on torches and batteries. It was just a shame it was so cloudy!

      If you have never seen the stars without light pollution, go to somewhere in the middle of nowhere and have a look. It's quite hard to do in the UK, as our population density (and thus light pollution) is many times that of the US, so there aren't many really empty places left. It's a real tragedy that for a little convenience and marginal extra safety we've given up our window seat at the edge of the rest of the universe.

    5. Re:Nice, but... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The really pathetic thing is that we can spend less on lighting, have more light, and see the stars if we use lights with reflector hoods that put the light where we want it rather than where we don't. They tend to be even less attractive than streetlights normally are but that's not a law of physics.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Nice, but... by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 5, Interesting

      People may say they feel whatever, but there are plenty of studies that show no correlation, or even an increase in crime.
       
      Light can be a great help to criminals. Not least of which they're easier to spot when waving a flashlight. Also, if your under a streetlight, EVERYBODY NOT under a light is automatically hidden from you. But when everyone is in equal lighting and can see equally, it's harder to hide.
       
          It's amazing how many people don't even know their eyes will adjust.

          Most probably some types of crime will go up and others will go down. I'll leave it to you type "street lights crime study" into google.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    7. Re:Nice, but... by ks*nut · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bullshit. The myth of lighting for security reasons is just that - a myth. Most outdoor lighting is still horribly inefficient in that it scatters light where it is not needed and wastes energy. And why are people so damned enamored of lighting tall buildings, billboards and street signs from below? There is also a lot of street lighting that doesn't light the street effectively and causes glare in drivers' eyes. Yes, I am an amateur astronomer and outdoor lighting (in general) sucks.

    8. Re:Nice, but... by bloodmusic · · Score: 3, Informative

      In British English—or, as the British say, "English"—"learned" is used in phrases such as "a learned professor", in which case it is pronounced with two syllables.
      Either "learnt" or "learned" are used interchangably in phrases like "I learnt a valuable lesson today".

    9. Re:Nice, but... by Xest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you completely missed his point.

      He pointed out that if everyone is in the same low level of light then everyone will see equally because their eyes will adjust, thus if someone is raping you you will be more easily seen in a dark bush by someone whose eyes are adjusted to the dark due to lack of lighting, whilst if someone has dragged you into a dark bush to rape you when they are walking in the light, because their eyes wont have adjusted to the dark it'll actually be harder for them to see you.

      What you say is only true if someone rapes you in the light, but what rapist is stupid enough to do that? Most happen after their victims have been dragged somewhere dark, where most people can't see because they're walking in the light and their eyes are adjusted to the light.

    10. Re:Nice, but... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My experience is that people who spent their formative years in the city feel more secure with more light, those who grew up in the country feel more secure with less light.

    11. Re:Nice, but... by simonbp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Crime is very low in Flagstaff, in fact among the lowest in the state: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/az/crime/

      Flagstaff was the first Dark Sky City in the world, and achieved that by making nearly all outdoor lighting Low-Pressure Sodium (LPS) emission lamps. LPS is much lower power than High Pressure Sodium or Mercury (the typical alternatives), thus saving the city massive amounts of money on energy bills. In addition, LPS is monochromatic, making it easily blocked by even mildly sophisticated amateur astronomers. And the minimal skyglow has allowed the local research telescopes to survive, thus pumping tens of millions of dollars into the local economy.

      Speaking as a professional (and occasional amateur) astronomer, Flagstaff is much, much better off because its Dark Skies.

    12. Re:Nice, but... by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Funny

      Few years back, there was an article in the Denver Post, one of those "10 Best Places in Denver" puff pieces. It offered the recently-built upscale subdivision of Highlands Ranch as the "Best Place For Stargazing" because it has "plenty of lights to illuminate the stars"...

      rj

  3. Fear of the dark... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in a very dark neighborhood... no streetlights within about a mile, and lots of trees (makes stargazing... challenging.) Unfortunately, some of the neighbors don't feel safe unless they leave lights running all night long. It's a very basic human trait: fear of the dark. We have less crime in my dark neighborhood than many nearby well-lit ones, but facts don't erase fear.

    1. Re:Fear of the dark... by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 5, Funny

      We have less crime in my dark neighborhood than many nearby well-lit ones

      That's probably because burglars, too, fear the dark.

  4. Amen to that by clickclickdrone · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've always lived in semi-rural or town areas in a fairly packed part of the UK. You can see a few stars on a good clear night but there's still a lot of light polution.
    I recently went on holiday to a farm in the middle of nowhere in the Yorkshire Dales. I was utterly astounded to find out you can actually see the Milky Way at night - it blew me away. I spent hours just lying on my back in the grass with my mouth open. Wine probably helped. I feel so bad I've missed such a wonder for all these years.

    --
    I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
  5. No, they're not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You see, light causes shadows. And your pedestrian walking home at night will be walking in the light, therefore night blinded by the light (this is why you can't see as many stars at night in a lit street as opposed to your sheltered garden) that illuminates you and makes the shadows deeper.

    Meanwhile, the crafty mugger, hiding in the shadow, sees you well illuminated and highlighted out as a target and knows you cannot see them in the shadow, and jumps out on you and mugs you.

    The burglar can also see better to use his lockpicks to break into your house.

    Your "if they weren't serving any use, people wouldn't have them in the first place" is begging the question: did there have to be a use served for them to be left on 24/7?

  6. worse than security theater? by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Always consider the possibility that installing a light may aid criminal activity."

    http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/crime.html#noreduction

    Bad guys who wave flashlights are easier to spot than bad guys who don't need extra lighting.

    --

    Operator, give me the number for 911!
    1. Re:worse than security theater? by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've had a woman complain at me for hanging around at 6:30 in the evening in a well lit area, just because the sky was dark. If it was 9PM in summer (when it's still bright as day here in Scotland), I doubt she'd have said anything at all.

      She kept saying things like "well, as a woman.. well, you know". And though I knew what she was trying to imply, I wanted her to come out and say it, so that she could hear how stupid it sounded. She never actually did get to the point though. If she was actually scared of me, she wouldn't have approached me and started chatting, she would have just called the Police.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  7. International Dark Sky Association by AJ+Mexico · · Score: 4, Informative

    More info over at www.darksky.org . It costs a lot of money/oil to keep all those lights on. Is it worth it? Have your children seen the milky way?

    --
    Computers obey me.
  8. Well, you'd think, but no, not really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most lights on are 80+% of the time being unused and just on "because who wants dark areas? The scary monsters might get you!"
    And you would think I was kidding, but humans are more afraid of the dark than most like to admit. Hiding behind about a hundred different excuses.
    I still know plenty of adults now who are scared hitless-missing-an-s of the dark. Like, genuinely scared.
    I'd be surprised if it was any lower than that to be honest.

    And more than anything, most lights are at a brightness WAY BEYOND anything needed for "safety".
    Yes, its fine if you use some nightlights to be able to see, but most of them are as bright as a desk light, if not brighter.
    That is completely unneeded.
    Most streetlights could be darkened by 75+% and still be useful for in-dwelling roads. (since, you know, CARS HAVE LIGHTS)
    In fact, it'd probably be slightly better since car lights would be noticeable around corners and the like compared to when street lights were AS BRIGHT AS THE SUN, so you would certainly know one was coming even if you were deaf.
    Imagine the energy saved by cutting all those probably thousands of streetlights in an average town, all those lights burning through that energy all night, not even needed by anyone.
    They aren't known as The Unsociable Hours for no reason, nobody is about, are they lighting the place up for the rats? (I know they technically go from 8 till 6, still)
    Not like cars need them, there aren't lights on the thousands of miles of road between towns.
    And humans technically should be wearing luminescent clothing at night in the first place if they actually want to be safe. Most don't due to ignorance and "it looks guff". Won't be saying that when you lose your arm.

    I rarely ever have the lights on after hours, besides some little LED lights to give basic definition to the room.
    Rarely being if other people were around, or if I am looking for anything.
    Anything that requires light should be done during the day is my thoughts on it.

    The amount of energy wasted on lights is horrendously awful. Same goes with heating. Overheating houses is the worst offense.
    Humans evolved OUTDOORS. Stop wasting money on so much heating. It annoys me greatly when someone is sitting there half naked and says "OH GOD ITS FREEZING PUT THE HEATING ON" or something like that. If you are too cold, put some clothes on damn it.
    Some people have heating up at ridiculous levels. I remember walking in to someones house once, in to the living room, it was like walking in to a sauna without the steam.
    I'm in Scotland at that. A place where it happily snows in the middle of a hot summer and nobody thinks twice about it.

  9. Yes... by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I don't normally respond to ACs - but you are right. At out last house the Council wanted to install a street light outside - at a cost of several thousand pounds. We demanded that they fit a reflective hood to keep the light away from our house, as I like to be able to see stars. They fussed a lot over a £10 add-on to an expensive streetlight which actually put more light where it was wanted.

    We got it. But why the argument was necessary in the first place I cannot imagine.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  10. The sky is unbelievable in the total dark. by fredrated · · Score: 4, Interesting

    About 35 years ago I got the chance to sail to Hawaii from San Francisco in a small (31') sail boat. Believe me, when you are 1000 miles from the nearest light the night sky is astounding. It is very obvious why the ancient people put so much stock in the night sky: it hangs over you like a presence you can feel.
    More recently I used to go to Death Valley for a good night sky, but that is becoming increasingly problematic. Even when there is no moon, there is so much light from Las Vegas and Los Angeles it looks like the moon about to rise (in two places!). *snif*

  11. IF people had the right light fixtures.... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This would be reduced significantly.

    Honestly, the U of M did this. they threw away all the crap street and building exterior lighting and replaced them with fixtures that do not waste light by spraying it upwards and sideways. All light is controlled.

    IT made a huge difference to the light pollution around their observatory on campus.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  12. Cruise Ships by camperdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wish the cruise ships I'd travelled on had done this. It would have been awesome being in the middle of the ocean and seeing the stars. But no... the whole upper deck was brilliantly lit and there were strings of multicolored party lights hanging over the deck.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Cruise Ships by Rinikusu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hrm. I bet if there were enough interest, a cruise line might be willing to make a "stargazers" cruise and set-up with some telescopes/binoculars and some good astronomy teachers to show you how and where to look and use the equipment, etc... And, of course, alcohol. That's a cruise I might be interested in...

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai