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Mutant Flu Researchers Declare a Time Out
New submitter scibri writes "Researchers working on highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza have said they will stop work on the virus for 60 days, to allow them to explain the importance of their work to politicians and the public. Quoting: 'Despite the positive public-health benefits these studies sought to provide, a perceived fear that the ferret-transmissible H5 HA viruses may escape from the laboratories has generated intense public debate in the media on the benefits and potential harm of this type of research. We would like to assure the public that these experiments have been conducted with appropriate regulatory oversight in secure containment facilities by highly trained and responsible personnel to minimize any risk of accidental release.'"
Reader Harperdog sends in a related article arguing that we shouldn't be having a debate about the censorship of research, but rather a debate over whether the research should have been allowed in the first place.
Are they researchers for the mutant flu or are they flu researchers that are mutants? Or did the mutant flu make them mutants?
And this is the way the new Dark Ages will begin. Not from where you'd expect, religious fundamentalists who are offended by the challenge reality presents to their mythology. But from easily-frightened handwringing "ethicists", who had they been around in the time of the caveman would have taken away Ugh's flint for fear he'd burn down the forest were he to succeed in starting a fire.
I'm going to dream about an old woman in a cornfield on a porch soon, aren't I?
Research with dangerous things works much better in self-limiting environments. There wouldn't be much risk of trouble if they were on a moon or space base. We're really playing with fire when we test things that could wipe us out.
I knew those ferrets where up to something. They must be stopped!
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
If these guys don't do the research, someone else will. Probably some government, and then they'll spread it once they have a secret cure for themselves.
I think you have confused the government with drug companies. Granted the difference is sometimes difficult to discern.
A drug company is a private corporation over which you have no control.
A government is a public corporation that you vote for, and is controlled by the drug companies. (& etc.)
...have someone studying it now rather than having them start when its already too late. It can take months or years to create a vaccine, then more time to manufacture/distribute it to the public. By this time a large proportion of the world's population could be infected.
'But he thinks that the duration of the pause is too short. “The 60 days will likely not be adequate in terms of getting a truly workable international policy and applying that. I just don't think that's realistic,” he says. '
Is it really too short, or are the parties involved not interested enough to put their time into resolving it quickly? Because if they aren't really interested in coming to a resolution, the scientists have just wasted 60 days of their lives for people who don't actually care.
And I admit I don't know the difference between level 3 and level 4 facilities, but if it really could cause a pandemic, why is it not under the highest security? That's my life you're taking a chance on and claiming you're being cautious enough. I think anything you could learn from it is not worth the risk of my life.
I'm all for science and progress, but scientists are known for forgetting the stakes of what they're doing and claiming that progress is necessary, no matter the risk. It sounds to me like they need some oversight, and that's what this is.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
We would like to assure the public that these experiments have been conducted with appropriate regulatory oversight in secure containment facilities by highly trained and responsible personnel to minimize any risk of accidental release.
Why does this remind me of all the stories where some contractor walked out of a "secure $organization facility" with highly sensitive data/source code/credit_card numbers etc...?
Should we be surprised when we read a story one day that says that some Chinese researcher walked out the door with a container of some highly contagious strain of Ferret Flu...
Government or private makes no difference here. It's bad guys (or just people with lax controls) and good guys. In either case someone will do the research. If the good guys do it (people with good intentions and good controls) then we stand a chance of saving people when the bad guys do it and fuck it up.
It all starts at 0
Would somebody please think of the poor terrorists? Everybody knows they are not smart enough to do this sort of research on their own. Without real scientists helping them create doomsday weapons like this one, how will they ever take over the world?
What they are working on is a way to create a sustainable world with a far smaller population. You can't just line people up against the wall and shoot them or poison them as the Nazis did but a global epidemic accidentally released from a laboratory will serve just as well and with a far smaller number of people that need to be held accountable.
and that should give us time to find that Damn ferret.
I see. SOMEONE will do it .. so that makes is moral for ANYONE to do it when NOBODY should be doing it.
hmm....
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Who really cares if mutants get the flu? The less monsters the better, I say.
yeah , but we don't want security research to create viruses and that might get released into the net just so they can figure out what 'might' happen, that and if every computer on the whole earth crashed , that is nothing compared the the economic, cultural and human destruction that would take place if a strong strain of this bug gets loose.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Newsflash: SOMEONE is already doing it on a scale so massive that human beings can't even come close to competing with. That someone is called The Universe, or more specifically in this case the Planet Earth.
Flu virii are replicating and recombining on their own. They do it all day every day in billions of organisms around the planet. By doing a tiny tiny tiny version of the same thing in a controlled manner in a lab, we can learn a whole lot about that natural process that will provide wonderful insights to help combat the really bad stuff that the evolution of these virii WILL produce at some point.
In all likelihood all of the combinations that these scientists come up with already exist somewhere.
Hello, Ron A. M. Fouchier and 38 co-authors here. I want to assure everyone that our work on a highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza will have no
er...
hold a moment...
we aren't feeling too well..
can someone please #$%^
NO CARRIER
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
If these guys don't do the research, someone else will
We have finite resources we should start to be wiser about prioritizing things. There are some things that should be done earlier, some things that should be done later, and some things that we should avoid doing.
IMO this research is definitely not one of the "do earlier" items. Tell me what's the potential benefit vs the potential cost?
If one day there exists a way to develop a "Big Red Button" that could kill more than 50% of the humans in the world, saying a country shouldn't make it illegal just because "someone else will do it" seems to be a stupid argument to support doing it.
As for developing cures, the main workaround for most of these sorts of diseases is the same- quarantine. Because when "stuff happens" even if a potential cure/vaccine may exist, you usually have no way or resources to get enough of it to everyone in time.
Not every country can afford to stockpile stuff that may or may not work or be needed (just like some did with Roche's Tamiflu).
Like the line from the movie... "we don't need to work on mutating the virus. The birds are doing that for us."
It seems like both right and left want to stop research in science depending on RELIGIOUS POVs. The evangelicals, want to stop genetic research, deny evolution as well as Global Warming. The left, with their own brand of religion, want to stop nuclear research and now this.
it is hard to believe that America was at one time, the leading nation in science. Since the likes of reagan onwards, we have suffered over and over by both extremist on right and left wings.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The seven experiments of concern are those that would:
1. demonstrate how to make a vaccine ineffective
2. confer resistance to antibiotics or antiviral agents
3. enhance a pathogen's virulence or make a non-virulent microbe virulent
4. increase transmissibility of a pathogen
5. alter the host range of a pathogen
6. enable a pathogen's ability to evade diagnostic or detection modalities
7. enable the weaponization of a biological agent or toxin
.
I see your point, especially related to #7. However, I'd prefer to know that we understand pathogens, antibiotic actions, and immunization before we really, really need that knowledge. Bubonic Plague wiped out about 1/3 of Europe's population because they didn't have antibiotics.
I see no reason for an experimental virus to be both highly contagious and deadly at the same time. Couldn't you learn the same thing from two viruses. One that was very contagious but not dangerous and another that was very deadly but not contagious?
Why put the warhead in the missile if you don't intend to kill people? if you want to test the missile, put a dummy warhead in it. If you want to test the warhead, then detonate without the delivery mechanism.
Viral researchers do this sort of thing all the time. They test contagious viruses with harmless strains to watch how they get into the body. Deadly strains are typically injected. They're not airborne.
Maybe I don't understand what they're doing but the whole thing smells like a germ warfare lab if they're combining the two and trying to make them more deadly. That's a weaponization program.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
... it's biotechnology as usual, only this time the public got to hear about it and now, being utterly ignorant of anything, they're in a panic.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
No, the researchers are themselves a highly evolved mutation of the influenza virus.
Which mean that they can't produce offspring unless they infect you?
Whatever you do, don't click the link!
:-P
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Being able to defend against is before MILLION OF PEOPLE DIE. There is your benefit.
Also, developed the technology that makes vaccine and vaccine research better and faster.
""someone else will do it" seems to be a stupid argument to support doing it."
that's a good argument because if someone else weaponizes it, we won't have a reasonable response time.
"As for developing cures, the main workaround for most of these sorts of diseases is the same- quarantine. Because when "stuff happens" even if a potential cure/vaccine may exist, you usually have no way or resources to get enough of it to everyone in time."
you need to stop talking now. Not only aren't you qualified to have this discussion, you are ignorant of even the most basic principles.
Quarantine a flu epidemic.. idiot.
SO, where do we quarentine the first 100+thousand? million? Before we know it it is in the wild. Limiting travel is part of it, but you need to reliace a few things.
It's will be, at least 3 days before the first symptions . And it won't become known until many people ahve it ad go to a hospital that reports it to the CDC.
SO, at best, we are looking at a week. Best Case.
Some people get the flu and have it active and show little or no symptom.
If they got onto any public transportation? Now hoe may exposed? now who do you quarantine?
Quarantine people is really the weakest defense. Necessary, but weak.
If we know how to make the vaccines, we can ramp up very quickly. Like we did with the bird flu; which, BTW, had a 30+% mortality rate when first found, and almost every hospital in the NW was out of beds. Imagine if we had to have waited a month longer before getting the vaccine to people?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The military are going to want something which is both easy to pass on and effective at taking out the enemy population.
Deleted
It seems to me that these researchers need adult supervision. Forgetting about 'terrorism' for the moment, the consequences of a small mistake or small misunderstanding are far too large. They appear to be thinking like little children playing with cap guns than like adults working with technologies that could possibly lead to either another human population bottleneck or, indeed, extinction.
"Being able to defend against is before MILLION OF PEOPLE DIE"
Breaking evolution for humans ... are we supposed to be for Darwin's Evolution or not? If we Evolve, then why are we trying so hard to stop it? Seems short sighted to me.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
And where is the most money? Military research.
Clearly it's going to be weaponised. They're probably researching selectivity now.
Doomsday weapon; kill all humans on the planet. Except that's not really what you want, it might get you. What you want is to selectively be able to kill someone. Maybe an individual, maybe a certain ethnicity etc.
So. They've already got the doomsday weapon now, the biological equivalent of the hydrogen bomb. How do you control it? How do you make it only kill Russians, or Iranians? Could it be used to assassinate Putin?
Deleted
...the really bad stuff that the evolution of these virii WILL produce at some point.
NOT. VIRII.
You sound like an idiot.
Indeed. The closest Latin word to virii would be viri, which is just the plural for vir, "a man". So I guess the GGP might be right -- "the evolution of these virii^Wmen" *has* produced some really bad stuff.
More pedantically though, assuming virii existed as the plural of some Latin word, the rules state that the singular would be virius -- still not virus, and not a word in any language that I'm aware of.
Going the other way from singular to plural and using basic Latin rules, many people might look at virus and assume you just change the -us to -i to make the plural, but that gives us viri again -- meaning "men" as the plural of "a man". Looking deeper, we find that the actual Latin word virus was uncountable , so it never even had a plural in Latin -- so applying Latin rules for deriving the plural is just silly.
Applying English rules for plural formation to the *countable* *English* word virus gives us the proper plural form viruses.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
combat the really bad stuff that the evolution of these virii WILL produce at some point.
May produce at some point.
In all likelihood all of the combinations that these scientists come up with already exist somewhere.
Not necessarily. Just because they can achieve given results in a laboratory setting doesn't mean it would ever occur in nature on a reasonable timescale.
And moreover, what are the benefits of producing such a pathogen? It's completely reasonable to discuss the risk/reward involved, and very small risks with very large consequences should not be ignored.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
If these guys don't do the research, someone else will. Probably some government, and then they'll spread it once they have a secret cure for themselves.
They'll target a school, a tube station, and a water-treatment plant. Several hundred will die within the first few weeks. Until at last the true goal comes into view . . . after the election, lo and behold, a miracle. Some will believe that it was the work of God himself, but it will be a pharmaceutical company controlled by certain party members that will make them all obscenely rich. But the true genius of the plan will be the fear. A year later, several extremists will be tried, found guilty, and executed while a memorial is built to canonize their victims. Fear will become the ultimate tool of this government. And through it our politician will ultimately be appointed to the newly created position of High Chancellor. The rest, as they say, will be history.
The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted our spoons. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
True. Corporations can be greedy, but are rarely insane.
It's still just a variation of the Flu. Some people will be resistant.
If you want a doomsday weapon you have to genetic engineer in some African sleeping sickness surface chemistry genes. That would really fuck over our immune systems.
I bet (hope) the new $150,000 gene sequencer machines are pre-hacked not to sequence those genes, just like printers would'nt copy currency. All they would need is a table of hash's in the machine. Every time the CDC finds a new very dangerous gene they add a hash with the next update.
Otherwise it's just a matter of time before some small group of lunatics cooks up something for Prof Farnsworth's collection.
Governments for all their faults seem to lack the insanity required to kill us all. Even the Indians/Pakis haven't nuked each other. A-bombs seem to force a level of sanity on otherwise fanatical people.
Perhaps its facing the A-bombs that does it. When it was only one, it was bombs away, don't fuck with us now. Granting 'don't fuck with us now' is a lot better then any historical precedent.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
True but then, why not experiment with the LEAST harmful virus to learn about "natural process", instead of starting with one already hyper-deadly? Why would it be likely that only the most dangerous, will exhibit the things we need to see? Even if that's true, (its a feature of the most deadly we need to master), wouldn't it be better to near-exhaust research on the lesser harmful, before continuing on to that? First you juggle 3 soft balls, then 4, then 5, you don't "start" with the Chainsaw, Bowling Ball, and Egg early on. (And, I respectfully submit, from a genetic-flu understanding standpoint . . . its "early on".)
No, I don't remember your name. But the memory mapped screen on a TRS80 from 1977 is from 15360 to 16383 if that helps.
Breaking evolution for humans ... are we supposed to be for Darwin's Evolution or not? If we Evolve, then why are we trying so hard to stop it? Seems short sighted to me.
it doesn't break evolution any more than the first human who wore the skins of another animal to survive a cold winter night broke evolution. Our intelligence, our ability to invent and use technology, is an evolved survival skill -- our best survival skill.
It doesn't matter if we are "for" evolution or not -- evolution is not a religion, "evolving" is not some spiritual end-goal like Enlightenment. Evolution is something that happens, that is happening.
Everyone too stupid to take advantage of the abilities nature gave us dying from influenza being one possible example.
The enemies of Democracy are
"We would like to assure the public that these experiments have been conducted with appropriate regulatory oversight in secure containment facilities by highly trained and responsible personnel to minimize any risk of accidental release."
Hmmm. You've not talked to customer service from Dell recently, I take it.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
If these guys don't do the research, someone else will. Probably some government, and then they'll spread it once they have a secret cure for themselves.
I'm reading the second article linked, the "should we allow the research" one, and I've only gotten to the second paragraph so far and my bullshit sensors are screaming.
the 1918 influenza virus, which killed somewhere between 50 to 100 million people worldwide, had a mortality rate between 2 to 3 percent.
The world population reached 2 billion some time in the twenties. We'll go with 2 billion. That means if the above numbers are correct, the infection rate for the 1918 flu was somewhere between 83% and 250% of the global population.
If it wasnt world war iii, numerous private 'defense' companies would be working on atom bomb by then, and be willing to contract with whichever nation was willing to buy from them. of course, atom bomb research ALSO would eventually enable nuclear power. ..........
this kind of thing goes beyond atomic bomb. to effectively discharge an atomic bomb you need to go through numerous hurdles. to start a plague bomb, all you need is a working sample that is enough to infect 3-4 people in a crowded location.
Read radical news here
... Why are they not working on something that multiplies in just air alone and kills within minutes of contact?
I mean if they are going to speculate on what nature might or not create, why don't they just go for the brass ring?
...it'll be terrorists who use the piblished literature to develop the mutant variations, infect themselves and travel the world to cause a true pandemic!
Oh great... Then we'll have to pick a "volunteer" from amongst our prison population to send back in time to try to establish a link between the outbreak and the Army of the 12 Monkeys only to learn that we've missed the mark...
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
It's still just a variation of the Flu. Some people will be resistant.
Wonderful. We've just shifted out of 12 Monkeys and entered The Stand...
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Given a large enough number of viral mutations and a large enough timeframe, all events with non-zero statistical probability should be considered essentially certain to occur.
Regardless, though, of whether this specific pathogen would arise, we have the question of whether the development of it tells us anything new about how viruses work (specifically the flu virus) and what makes a virus deadly versus not deadly. The evidence so far is that it does tell us something about both. I consider that to be a very high reward, particularly as we now know there are a series of mutations required to make flu deadly, that none of the modern flu strains have the capacity to pull a Spanish Flu within the next year. By understanding more about what critical mutations are needed, we can get early warning. We will be able to see a deadly strain prior to it becoming deadly, allowing us many months - perhaps even a year or two - to develop suitable vaccines before the critical mutation ever arises.
We know from the Mexican Swine Flu case that our current pandemic controls just don't work. The disease was less lethal than feared, but that was luck not skill. Had it been deadly, none of the controls that existed were capable of identifying the disease in time, restricting its spread or handling the panic amongst health workers. The last of these was the worst problem as it was the Mexican paramedics and hospitals who were largely responsible for it becoming a pandemic. They were criminally negligent to the point where had it been another Spanish Flu, they would be guilty of planetary genocide. For that alone, I consider them no better than the criminal gangs there.
If we are to prevent a deadly pandemic, then, we have to bypass governments AND almost the entire healthcare industry. They aren't competent and they can't be trusted. Advance notice, predictive bio-engineering and vaccinations based on forecasts of likely deadly strains would seem to be the best hope for preventing a deadly pandemic at this time. We don't have anything else. Nothing.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I see your point, especially related to #7. However, I'd prefer to know that we understand pathogens, antibiotic actions, and immunization before we really, really need that knowledge. Bubonic Plague wiped out about 1/3 of Europe's population because they didn't have antibiotics.
It was even worse than that. I read somewhere that many Europeans blamed cats (because they were witches pets) for the Plague and killed them, causing the rodent population to increase! Yikes!
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
It is a risk/reward analysis; to me the risk of killing billions of people is much heavier on my scale of importance than any reward from the research.
The risk of research: Billions of people could die if containment fails or if natural strains evolve and spread before an effective vaccine is developed.
Reward of research: Eliminate risk of Billions of people dying if natural strains evolve and spread or containment fails.
Risk of NO research: Billions of people could die if natural strains evolve and spread.
Reward of NO research: eliminate risk of Billions of people dying from containment failure.
Which is better? There is no action that creates zero risk of Billions of people dying.
True but then, why not experiment with the LEAST harmful virus to learn about "natural process", instead of starting with one already hyper-deadly?
Emergency broadcast from the CDC: "We've had reports that a new mutated strain of the common cold virus has been detected in multiple metropolitan areas and seems to be spreading at exponential rates among the population. Thanks to years of research by our dedicated scientists, we are prepared for this circumstance and have procedures in place. We recommend that everyone wash their hands regularly and cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze. If you suspect that you may have already contracted this disease, please stay home for 2 or 3 days before returning to work, eat some chicken soup, drink plenty of fluids, and get some bed rest. Thank the gods we were prepared for this terrible epidemic and know how to react."
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
I've gotten in the habit of using google as a spell checker. It didn't correct my search for virii, so I went with it. After searching again and reading the first link that comes up: I agree, I sound like an idiot.
Since we now know that there are a plural number of infinities, it only stands to reason that "uncountable" should be extended to also have a plural form.
Further, although Latin is officially a "dead" language (ie: no longer evolving), there is no reason why it can't be undead and therefore still have new words added to the dictionary.
The word "virus" in the discussion here might derive from the Latin, but in modern English discourse the term has clearly been borrowed into the English language and is used as English. There's no need to change anything about Latin dictionary entries unless something changes in how Latin itself is used, as Latin.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
I think you are not quite doing justice to the subject. The Latin Language Forum has a rather longer treatment of it.
In Neo-Latin the plural is vira.
Interesting thread; I recall reading something along those lines some years ago, but clearly forgot the conclusion.
While this certainly fills in details lacking from my post, the issue at hand in Gotung's post and then in geekoid's reply was the proper plural in English. I'm not sure if a word borrowed from classical Latin into modern English should use Neo-Latin forms, at least not when there are already perfectly serviceable English forms available.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Sir, I disagree. I rather think that broad-spectrum flu vaccines are what we should be researching, instead of deliberately breeding deadly strains in inadequate containment facilities.
A broad-spectrum vaccine protects against ALL flu, not just this year's common mutations.
In fact, I have read that a broad-spectrum flu vaccine isn't too far out in the future.
The DRACO antiviral drug from MIT also seems like a good option.
Last, someone else has made the point that you can test contagiousness and deadliness independently. I.e., don't produce virii that are both, but only one or the other: only with BOTH characteristics is a virus world-threatening.
--PM
"We would like to reassure the public that there is no way this can ever escape the la"
likewise, radioactive decay is happening everywhere on earth, so who cares if someone has a neutron bomb
pffffffffffft
of course in the vast scope of the universe human endeavour is paltry. but that doesn't mean a couple of smart humans can't get together and make a virus purposefully tailored to infect humans, and do that well, and do that tomorrow, rahter than mother nature arriving at the juncture in 20-2000 years
and some other asshole fucks up and releases it by mistake or some nutcase thinks its a good idea to repeat the experiment and release it because allah or god or yahweh said to
so i'll make you a deal: i won't posit mankind as omnipotent in the face of mother nature's power, if you don't pretend mankind has no abilities to royally screw himself. deal?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
false complacency
intelligence is not freaking out in panic at every possible scary scneario
intelligence is not being completely relaxed even when a possible scary scenario grows in possibility
intelligence is realizing both extremes are a problem
i am glad you and others are so smart as to see false alarmism is dangerous
now grow the other half of your brain and realize false complacency is equally dangerous
if you don't have an appreciation of man's vast power to completely fuck up on purpose or by mistake, you're an idiot
reference: fukushima
(now we will hear form those who will dismiss fukushima as not an example of any warning about mankind's ability to screw up... guess what: you false complacent types are just ignorant as the hysterical false alarmists. now grow a brain and learn why)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
We've had reports that a new mutated strain of the common cold virus has been detected in multiple metropolitan areas
Well, technically speaking, SARS was a variant coronavirus (one of the several viruses generally grouped under the term "common cold") and it was pretty deadly, though not particularly communicable, so you're not totally far off.
Breakfast served all day!
We know genes interact and that results:genes are an N:M relationship, not a 1:1 one as had been thought even up to the turn of the millenium. In consequence, testing independently won't tell you what happens when they're combined. They may cancel out rather than work together. Other strange things can happen.
I agree that the containment is inadequate, but we need to know how these things work.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfejBpD_wm4
We could unite against the mutant menace! :-)
See also this thread I started:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2621264&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=38699248
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Sorry about the typo in his name.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Evolution selects the populations that invest on vaccines.
Rethinking email
Hey Ugh, Hey Ugh!
Nyup Nyup, I mean Ugh Ugh Ugh!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
A group of people controlling lots of money with political influence are generally pretty sane to begin with to be able to pull off a manhattan level project. That, and keep tabs on these weapons. But event that's not guaranteed with the likes of N. Korea and Iran.
No. The biggest fear is someone cooking up a synthetic virus with one of these sequencers. It's just another form of programming. But instead of controlling computer hardware, your playing with meat. Far more deadly.
Life is not for the lazy.
If we know how to make the vaccines, we can ramp up very quickly
How long does it take to make a vaccine for each new strain of flu?
Can a single vaccine work on all strains? If yes then there is no great need for this research. If no, then you'd still be starting from scratch for each strain some crazy nut comes up with (presumably the crazy nut can buy your vaccine and test against it). So what's the point of allowing researchers to create new dangerous strains when "nature" or some nut will do it for you?
If it's to practice in creating flu vaccines quickly, do you really have to create very _lethal_ strains of flu to practice on, which this lab is doing? Why not create other strains? Just looking at their methods you can see they are purposely creating dangerous strains.
The more people improve the technology in creating dangerous flu strains the cheaper it gets to create a new strain. If an attacker only needs to spend 10 million to create 10 different strains and it cost USD10 per vaccine per person, and you need to vaccinate more than a billion people, who is going to pay to defend against them all? How much does it cost to create a new strain? So it is a losing defence strategy.
Quarantine is the main defence for pandemics. If you stop people from moving about and spreading the disease, the virus has to evolve to a less lethal form to spread. Or at least a more sneaky form - dormant but mildly infectious for one month then kill. So far there is not much selection pressure for flu viruses to evolve into such a virus (they seem successful enough) but if some crazy researchers try to do that, they might succeed.
What if one day we have the ability into researching the creation of a "Cheap Big Red Button that kills EVERYONE"? Should we allow it with the reasoning that if you don't someone else will?
IMO we should delay the development of any such technology till human society has reached a state where nobody would push such a button.
From what I see humans are closer to developing "big red buttons" than they are at "growing up" so as to never push them. Hence the effort should be towards developing the latter first and not the former.
Comment removed based on user account deletion