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Canadian Govt To Introduce Massive Internet Surveillance Law
An anonymous reader writes "The Canadian government will introduce
new Internet surveillance legislation tomorrow that will mandate a
massive new surveillance infrastructure at all Canadian ISPs and remove
the need for court oversight of the disclosure of customer information.
Michael Geist has a detailed FAQ
on the history of the bill, the likely contents, the lack of government
evidence supporting the need for the invasive legislation, and what
Canadians can do about it."
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said the law will give the tools to police to adequately deal with 21st-century technology, and said anyone opposing the laws favours "the rights of child pornographers and organized crime ahead of the rights of lawabiding citizens."
If that's true, why do you need to avoid court oversight? If you're going after real criminals, what exactly is stopping you from getting a *warrant* to track them and get their information? Are Canadian judges uniquely reluctant to sign warrants when actual criminal activity is involved, so much so that you need to bypass them?
Or are you REALLY looking to go after someone else, someone that a judge is NOT going to sign a warrant for?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I give up. Just implant the video recorder in my brain already. Its the eventual result anyway.
What they want:
Step 1: assume all citizens are involved in organized crime
Step 2: observe until you can find a case
Step 3: issue fines
Step 4: revel in revenue increases due to above fines
It gets a lot harder when someone is asking "what probable cause do you have to watch this one?"
Government abolishes long-gun registry citing privacy concerns. But I suppose spying without court oversight isnt violating privacy in their eyes.
...someone that a judge is NOT going to sign a warrant for?
Public figures and officials?
...for a change? I have another proposition: Lets pass a bill for a full massive surveillance infrastructure at all politicians, and here comes the important part, WITHOUT court order. Who is with me?
Won't somebody think of the children?
Typical slimeball politician - he'll probably come out with "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" next.
Don't forget - Canada doesn't have freedom of speech, so the police will be able to use this to harass thought criminals and other doubleplusungood types.
Travel light to Canada.
Have gnu, will travel.
It brings a tear to my eye to see that our beloved secret police will no longer get to enjoy the local bar, pub or coffee shop while listening in on people's conversations. Instead now they are going to be relegated to dank little cubes in the cellars of mammoth government buildings poring over endless text files of internet data. I can just imagine the deceased members of the East-German Stasi rolling in their graves.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
That is an extremely thin veil. The politicans really want to ultimately be able to control dissent. I grow weary of this crap but human ingenuity finds a way around little problems like these. I am waiting for the time when communities come together to build community-owned, decentralized networks nullifying the point of creating such laws as these. If the internet were really owned by the people, a surveillance law would be practically impossible to enforce. It just shows that government is afraid of the people and it should be. People should not fear their government.
Because that's where we're heading: a completely obfuscated Internet.
I guess all Canadians are presumed Guilty, until you can afford to provide your innocence.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Antarctica. Or even better, north pole.
Make if easier for the government to do its job. At the end of every day email copies of your internet activity to Public Safety Minister Vic Toews.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Finding new ways to raise cash is critical once you've stepped down the socialism/welfare state path.
When the balance between those who contribute to the system more than they drain and those who drain more than they contribute starts to tip, the citizenry feels it in their wallets.
Since our government is probably being leaned on by yours ( aka Homeland Security ), and we'ld like to continue to trade with you, effectively nothing :-( .
The War of the Internet is in full swing... yet another front has opened! Call to arms! Keep writing/phoning your representatives! Join Pirate Parties! Go to demonstrations if there is one near you!
Past battles (might flare up again):
#SOPA
#PIPA
Current battles:
#ACTA
#TPP
#C11
#IPRED(2)
#INDECT
#pRECISE
#RWA
#PCIP
#SOPAIreland
Future battles
#C30
#SOPA/PIPA-replacement
Actually we do. It's 'freedom of expression' in our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Then one of the Jewish backed lobby groups got some 'hate speech' mechanism added - which is used to crush reporting of Israel's warcrimes, and patently ignored when peddling war propaganda about any of Israel's enemies.
Yeah, Canada is getting more like the US every day. Sorry to hear that, guys. You had a helluva nice civilised country up there.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Oddly enough, he seems to be going with the line that opposing this bill is questioning the integrity of front-line police forces. Of course, I'm questioning the integrity of front-line police forces. The entire system is built around the fact that we can't expect to trust all individuals to behave.
It's a thinly veiled excuse.
Just like the misconception that free distribution of independent literature would:
1) turn the peasants into hedonists (Confucianism - moveable type press)
2) put "the beast" into people (Catholic church - Gutenberg printing press)
Well, the governments were "right" back then so they must be "right" now aswell.
-- no sig today
This may be close to your last chance to be an anonymous coward, so sign the petition at openmedia,
http://openmedia.ca/StopSpying
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said the law will give the tools to police to adequately deal with 21st-century technology, and said anyone opposing the laws favours "the rights of child pornographers and organized crime ahead of the rights of lawabiding citizens."
That's quite right, actually, I do "favor" their rights. They have a right to due process of law. Any government official who says they do not favor the rights of any individual under the law is not fit for office, and should probably be impeached. One of those rights is to privacy from government surveillance without a warrant.
Not that that quote even makes sense, anyways: anyone who opposes the bill favors the rights of everyone.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
Tyrants and Kings used to do it all the time. Public opinion mush be controlled.
Meet the new boss....
Except that this bill would still only get us as far as similar laws that already exist in the US and UK. SOPA is a whole other can of worms.
Can we start a petition to evict Canada from North America? They're giving us a bad name. Mexico is welcome to stay.
So you have no problem with that form the DHS now requires all US citizens to fill out when they "leave" the US for any reason be it business trip or vacation? I don't know of any other country in North America that requires its citizens to report to the government when the "leave".
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Just an observation... it seems that anything with great potential to be good to mankind always seems to come with something equally bad... maybe its some kind of conservation of benefit equality.. but if you think about it.. theres not too many things that come along with benefits that do not come with equal detractors. The Internet, with its promise of global communication and sharing has now become the tool for government control of the global masses. Sounds about right. Sadly.
I love how they are always trying to protect the children when all they want is to make their jobs easier. Can you imagine if say Coca cola were able to make laws. How many laws would they pass to make selling cola easier?
What this all boils down to is that they have all the tools they already need to nail organized crime as any judge will sign warrants for that. Where the judges are "uncooperative" is when it comes to trolling to see if protesters are planning on embarrassing the government or police.
What Canadians want is more protection of our rights and more exposure of what the police and government are hiding. This law proposes the exact opposite.
I can't imagine the surveillance they will now rain down on someone who say does a freedom of information request on the RCMP. A situation that no judge in a million years would agree to.
A good example of a law that most Canadians would want is that the police can't use a drone without a warrant. I don't want them peeking over my bushes.
Canada doesn't have freedom of speech
No, we have something better: freedom of expression. ;)
The real problem is that we can't trust the politicians to use our data correctly, not that they are collecting it.
If all my data is used for is discovering that I'm not a criminal, then I'm happy.
If my data is used to arrest me for not-actually-crimes I didn't commit, and then left on a train so someone can steal my possessions, my online and real life identity then do things the government disapproves of in my name - Then I reach for the encryption&anonymity tools.
What the?!??!
You didn't stop anything. The only thing that has happened is they legislators have put it on hold for the dust to settle and once everybody is looking somewhere else they will bring it out and sign it again in a blizkriegian move and will be done with it before you have time to wipe your drool.
Fools!
-- no sig today
Some parents also censor web content.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/youtube-dad-who-shot-daughters-laptop-gets-visit-a/nHbcR/
Goes right along with the 2nd Amendment.
Back in the 1030s Hitler is reported to have said something along these lines. "If you want to pass a draconian piece of legislation wrap it in 'protecting our most precious resource, our children' such legislation will never be defeated." He went on to use this tactic in regards to several pieces of anti-Jewish anti-Polish legislation.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
We have a myriad of technical solutions to this problem.
Tor and the .onion domains effectually neutralise the ability of a third party (The state or any other organisation) to perform survailance on internet traffic.
Freenet enables the disemenation of whatever material anybody cares to share, to anybody.
Bitcoin allows unregulated trade.
It should be our goal to spread these existing tools and develop new methods of ensuring information can be transferred between people without fear, censorship, or interferance of any other person.
This is not off topic. The parent post astutely sees that these machines of law are being installed to give the government a new way to levy fines.
We did this to ourselves, you know. Canada had three chances to toss the Harper government out, and the third time, we handed them a majority despite their myriad offences that would have toppled prior governments (butchering Statistics Canada, running endless attack ads, blowing a billion dollars turning Toronto into a police state for the G20, proroguing parliament to avoid answering difficult questions, complicity in torture of Afghan detainees, being found in contempt of parliament... And these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head). As a nation, we deserve exactly what we're getting for not turfing that clown Harper at the first opportunity.
How are we going to fill (and justify) all of our fancy new super jails if we can only go after people who are actually commiting crimes?
Remind me why I should ever vote for you again? I have voted against you in the previous number of federal elections (even while considering myself conservative) because of this stuff. You're not helping change my mind!
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
I guess all Canadians are presumed Guilty, until you can afford to provide your innocence.
You wouldn't want to negatively impact the ability of law enforcement to violate your rights would you?
You can always plead guilty if you don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of going to court. It would probably be cheaper. I did it once, saved thousands.
I don't understand what it is with this recent(?) obsession with wanting to bypass warrants? It just outright baffles and frustrates me.
Canada is one of the five English-speaking countries (the 'Five Eyes') that participates in Project Echelon, and has for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
Part of this system involves collusion between spy agencies to exchange data. E.g. The US National Security Agency is forbidden from spying on US citizens inside the USA, but the Australian military is not, and vice-versa. They get around this by swapping data. Your emails are ALREADY available to the Vic Toews.
So you have no problem with that form the DHS now requires all US citizens to fill out when they "leave" the US for any reason be it business trip or vacation? I don't know of any other country in North America that requires its citizens to report to the government when the "leave".
Actually, Canada. The new regulation that Harper was talking about with Obama few weeks ago. It basically comes down to,
1. when someone from US enters Canada, Canada will send their entire information to US (ie. that person left US to Canada)
2. when someone enters US from Canada, US will send all the information about said individual to Canada.
Canada is US's next state, more or less. So whatever laws US gets, Canada will also have. Whatever laws Canada has, US will most likely have some sort of a program too.
For example, the new copyright laws, they will make it illegal for Canadians to watch videos on places like youtube that are copyright infringements. Together with this law about pervasive surveillance and next thing we know, we get tickets in the mail for watching random videos or listening to some music on internet radio. You know, like traffic cameras for cars.
BS. There's a 100% optional form available if you wish to register items you're taking abroad to avoid any hassles about duty on reentry, but it's sort of a waste of time IMHO which is absolutely not legal advise. If you have knowledge of any requisite form that millions of people departing the US each year are apparently not filling out, please let us know.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Address please, time to setup a million cameras watching him at all hours of the day. Live stream that shit and let's see how fast this law dies :D
Only a moron would think that conservative or liberal has anything to do with it. You need to open your eyes to the fact that ALL politicians the world over are in it for their own benefit. Chances are, in this case, that these laws are motivated by the intellectual property lobby.
Sorry, what was that?
(Same sig since 1998)
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
But they are not in his inbox :-)
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
You can't vote a government out, you can only vote another government in... and they would probably be doing pretty much the same as this one.
And Canada was doing OK with a minority government until the left decided to commit suicide by forcing yet another election that no-one wanted. That has to be one of the worst 'shot myself in the ass' moments in political history.
Perfect, I can't wait to pay the new Internet Surveillance Fee of $7.85 on both my home internet and my cell phone to cover the cost of this ridiculous display of Harper's majority government. I hope you conservatives are happy, way to ruin Canada.
Draconian governments always find the need for 'extra controls' over others, while removing all oversight with regard to their actions. Hitler burned the Reichstag. Harper has systematically destroyed civil liberties in Canada, (following the lead of the US). He doesn't have any issues with China, because he is adopting the policies of China too! At some point, he will order tanks into the street and start shelling neighborhoods in Canada (just like Bashar al-Assad). Don't want to vote for me? Take that! He hasn't got a problem pissing $1Billion away on a G8 summit (why spend $20 million when you can get bad press for 50 times as much), and while you are at it, prop up the American arms industry with overpriced airplanes, ignore unemployment problems at home, keep telling people everything is rosy (when people clearly see that it isn't), ride on the economic coat tails of the Liberals (Paul Martin knows about fiscal responsibility, Jim Flaherty clearly doesn't), and make people regret that you are in charge. ...Just like Hitler.
"The new system would require the disclosure of customer name, address, phone number, email address, Internet protocol address, and a series of device identification numbers. "
That part about the "series of device identification numbers" will likely be a hardware profile similar to the kind used for DRM'ing software and not just a MAC address, if every access point records this profile then this type of surveillance is extensive, very extensive.
Your Internet fingerprint as it were.
For some reason I never associated Canada with this draconian crap, but there it is, along with Australia's equally intrusive measures soon the Internet will no longer be a forum of open discussion but rather one demoted to "content delivery" system, just like TV.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
In your case were you actually guilty? Or were you innocent. If talking something that is minor and will not stay on your record yeah it may be worth it. If not then why take the easy road out?
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
That is an excellent point of which I am sure will get overlooked by everyone, except parliament, which they in turn already know this, and want to pass the bill anyways.
Only a moron would think that conservative or liberal has anything to do with it. You need to open your eyes to the fact that ALL politicians the world over are in it for their own benefit. Chances are, in this case, that these laws are motivated by the intellectual property lobby.
I can only speak for the U.S., where the "conservatives" demand the insane abuses of civil rights, and the liberals are to afraid to call "bullshit" for fear of being labeled "soft on terrorism". So yeah. Both groups suck when it comes to defending our rights. And the terrorists win again.
That's not true. The Liberals lost their government for far less with the sponsorship scandal. By comparison, the Conservatives have done far, far worse in their favouritism, their contempt for evidence-based policy, and utter lack of transparency which they were elected to improve in the first place, and to suggest the Liberals would have done the same if they were in power is disingenuous at best.
Also, the election really came down to a last minute NDP surge, an anomaly in the campaign. If the left's power hadn't diluted at the last possible minute, then the Conservatives would have gotten a minority, which would have resulted in a joint Liberal/NDP government rule, given that the two parties had expressed no intention in working with the Conservatives should another Conservative minority come to pass. It was a political gamble that the left lost, but a failed gambit is far from 'committing suicide' or 'shooting themselves in the ass'.
If you saw the damage that the Left have done in the UK to our rights and freedoms, you might not have such a jaded view.
All politicians distrust the people - it is, after all, the people who made them and the people who (theoretically) can break them. It is the State itself that is the greatest threat to our freedoms, and if you think that conservatives are worse in that respect than socialists then I suggest you read some history.
They are all as bad as each other - remember that no matter who you vote for the Government always wins. I'll take a small state libertarian over any of the statists any day.
It was the "hate speech" to which I was indirectly referring.
This may be close to your last chance to be an anonymous coward, so sign the petition at openmedia,
http://openmedia.ca/StopSpying
And don't forget to donate as well
Just going off my own experience, unless you come in carrying a rolex, liquor, cigarettes, or other 'obviously expensive' or 'obviously restricted' items, they could give a flying fuck what you take with you in either direction.
Honestly the only purpose of all that anal retentive posturing is usually to ensure people don't just use 'personal entry' as a dodge to normal customs duties by having a bunch of mules haul stuff into/out of the country claiming it's 'personal effects'.
Not to say you'll never get a customs agent fucking you around over it, but if they're corrupt, or you're a dick, they'll be doing it whether or not there's a REAL legal reason for them to be.
Er... no you don't.
Another victory for the forces of evil dressed up as protecting the vulnerable / minority / whatever.
Yes, the election gave our Supreme Leader Stephen Harper license to build his police state (practiced during the G20), once he has legislation like this in place - and all the new prisons have been completed, and that might be seen as a "shot myself in the ass" moment I admit. Harper now has free reign to remake the country according to his own plan - and its all Right-Wing, all the time for him. I am ashamed of my fellow Canadians for electing this charlatan to office repeatedly.
However, from the point of view of the political Left (i.e. the New Democratic part, since even our old Liberals were very conservative much of the time, and sliding more so), it raised them from an also-ran with only a few seats in the house to being the official opposition for the first time in history. It also exploded the Liberal party which is all but dead at the moment.
The election polarized Canada politically. Now what remains to be seen is if Canadians can find the wits to throw Harper out on his fucking ass in the next election and elect an NDP prime minister. Sadly, Jack Layton died after the election and I think only he might have pulled that off.
Personally I think its probably too late for Canada now. Harper is in and he is going to stay in, using/abusing all the powers of his office to stay in power. I am quite prepared to believe that the Conservatives will find some manner to abuse this legislation once it passes to help stiffle the opposition or find dirt to spew out in attack ads.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Fourteen years ago I was invited to speak to Canadian MPs about "Internet safety." The only MPs that showed up (sober) were Conservative MPs. Other MPs (Liberals, NDP, and Bloc) were in the same building partying with the Lumber Lobby and the strippers they brought with them. A few Bloc MPs showed up a little later but were so drunk they could hardly walk.
To say I'm disappointed with this current turn of events is an understatement given what I have done to avoid it. That said, anybody who thinks that this is because the Conservatives are in power is, frankly, just an ignorant troll. Governments want control. All governments. You're job as the populace is to vocally encourage them to focus their efforts on methods of "protecting the people" (the initial and still principle role of government) that do so in a way that does not infringe on their rights as citizens.
If you're concerned about it (and you should be), be sure to contact your MP and tell them how you feel, what they should be doing differently, and how this is going to effect your vote in the next election.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
We can fill them up with banksters and politicians.
In your case were you actually guilty? Or were you innocent. If talking something that is minor and will not stay on your record yeah it may be worth it. If not then why take the easy road out?
I don't know if I was guilty or not. It was over a threat I apparently made when I was drunk, and it was 18 months in the past. I have no recollection, and since there were no other witnesses, there was no proof. It would have been thrown out, but I would have had to hire a lawyer and travel back and fourth to the court (300 miles). I pleaded guilty and got a $200 fine instead. The feminists got their statistic, I didn't have to suffer through a trial and associated court costs.
It doesn't bother me, what it does is lessen my already miniscule respect for our justice system. The judge did not like me pleading guilty, but he couldn't throw it out at that stage.
Could somebody change the /. moderation system so that we can take that one above +5, please.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
You are a moron.
must have given him some new ideas to incorporate into this legislation.
Good thing for onion routing and anonymous proxies. They are not just for users in China and Iran any more............
The easiest way for them to do this is to adopt another legal fallacy: like corporations are people, encryption is a munition, money is speech, the national "border" is 200 miles thick (100 miles to each side), and DRM is effective protection, declare the Internet as a public space and you can surveil with impunity.
(Acknowledged, those are US official legal fallacies and this is about Canada.)
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Ubiquitous surveillance catches misdeeds on both sides, this is very much a "Be careful what you wish for!" situation. This will create a whole new class of criminals specializing stealing everyone's stored information. If legislation like this is enacted I predict the rise of a peer to peer internet that circumvents ISPs entirely.
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said the law will give the tools to police to adequately deal with 21st-century technology, and said anyone opposing the laws favours "the rights of child pornographers and organized crime ahead of the rights of law abiding citizens."
Do we no longer have laws concerning slander and libel? My Public Safety Minister just slandered me. I doubt I would be alone in thinking this, so a class action suit is in order.
He just said out loud that I, and others like me, are facilitating child pornography and are in cahoots with organized crime?!? Holy !@#$. By extension, he just accused Michael Geist of the same thing, merely for opposing this!
WTF?!?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
i heard that a right leaning government was re-elected in canada, but i did not think that they were outright to the scale of 'fascist'.
wow.
holy shitmoses ...
Read radical news here
Guarantee of Rights and Freedoms 1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
In other words, you only have as much fundamental freedom of expression as the law allows.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
yer hosed, eh
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Actually, since it's illegal to listen in on your own citizens without a warrant in both countries this is already being done regularly. Not illegal for Canada to spy on America and vice versa, nor is it illegal to exchange the resulting intelligence. Well the spying might technically be illegal, but that's how it works anyway.
The judge did not like me pleading guilty, but he couldn't throw it out at that stage.
Because it was idiocy. You don't bloody plead guilty when there are no witnesses and no evidence you moron. You did not have to hire a lawyer for it. You please not guilty, with no representative from the opposition, the judge will either reschedule, or find in your favor and it's done. Usually, they'll find in your favor unless it is a very serious crime.
And then in the 20th century one of his family did the same thing.
You can't vote a government out
Yes you can. We Americans did it a few hundred years ago at the tip of a bayonet.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
You must live in Calgary, and had dealings with the Calgary Police.
The north pole is part of Canada.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
US doesn't either when it comes to IP laws: guilty until proven corporate-approved.
Table-ized A.I.
The proposed lawful access legislation that will give law enforcement sweeping new powers, put a tremendous strain on smaller ISPs, and put all Canadians at risk of inappropriate and unnecessary surveillance. This 1984-like legislation is something that has been in the works in one form or another since 1999. It seeks to add far more warrantless Internet surveillance options for law enforcement officers. While I very much respect and support our fine police men and women, the information that the proposed bill will grant, without warrant or or oversight, should concern all privacy-loving citizens. Ontario’s fantastic privacy commissioner, Ann Cavoukian, outlines her concerns eloquently in an interview with Search Engine’s Jesse Brown:
http://searchengine.tvo.org/blog
Anyone interested, and we should all be interested, should read up on the details, listen to what others are saying, and let your MP know how you feel about this potential invasion of our privacy. If you feel strongly about this, you may also want to fill out the Open Media petition.
http://www.realprivacy.ca/write-my-mp
http://openmedia.ca/StopSpying
The Internet is what we make it. We should all be active participants.
Mod parent up. Every "free speech" provision in countries that have it has a "reasonable limits" clause, for yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre or "Kill the Jews!" to incite a crowd to violence.
61% of Canadians voted for a liberal party, of which there happen to be four: the Liberals, the New Democratic Party (farther left of center), the Bloc Quebecois (only in Quebec), and the Green Party. Only 39% voted Conservative.
In a proper voting system which is fair, like Instant Runoff, the Conservatives would not have benefited from all of the liberal vote splitting which turned their minority support into a majority government. Personally, I think Canadians' number one priority should be switching to an Instantaneous Runoff system. It's easy: rank as many candidates as you like in order of preference. The vote calculations in each riding are simple, too: count all the votes, remove the least popular candidate, and repeat until you have one winner. (I think those who don't want this system intentionally make it sound more complicated, and like it's doing things that it's not.)
Under this system, we would have either a minority government or a coalition government, either of which would be fine... and actually better than any of the alternatives, IMHO. It is good when the conservatives have a voice at the table! The problems come when they have a majority government, and can then do whatever crazy-assed shit they want to, and if they're lucky, pull the wool over the eyes of voters with their corporate-style marketing and spin machine.
It's interesting that the conservatives were themselves bitten by having more than one national party some years back, and having the conservative votes split in a similar way, guaranteeing the Liberals a majority... which resulted in graft and corruption and scandal which eventually got the Liberals turfed. The conservatives solved their 'problem' by uniting all parties under one conservative banner, and are now reaping the rewards. I don't think any system should favour US-style polarization of the political spectrum like this, however. It should be allowed to be exactly that: a spectrum.
You can't vote a government out, you can only vote another government in...
Not true in Canada. Citizens can petition to have the government thrown out... plus the opposition can have a vote of non confidence. The second almost happened; the first would have happened except for the fact that Canadians had no viable option to Harper that looked like they could do better.
Yes you can. We Americans did it a few hundred years ago at the tip of a bayonet.
And seem to have forgoten how since then.
There's an attitude hidden in your comment that is the root cause of the issue we're currently experiencing... it can be found in the sentence "I am ashamed of my fellow Canadians for electing this charlatan to office repeatedly." Unless you're talking about your fellow Canadians the members of Parliament, you have no point. Canada is supposed to be a representative democracy where you elect your MP to office, and the MPs come together to select a leader to act as Prime Minister.
If everyone actually voted for their best local representative and political parties were limited, if not disbanded, we'd have a MUCH different political landscape in place.
We need electoral reform to make the system work the way it was intended to work, not as some sort of distorted reflection of the US system.
Read clause 1. Our fundamental freedoms are subject to limits prescribed by law.
However, I do give us full marks for having it be listed in the main body of the constitution, instead of being some afterthought added in
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
what could possibly go wrong?
the internet seems to be just an excuse for law enforcement to be lazy: what's wrong with limiting them to physical surveillance? yeah, it's harder, but from the citizen's side, that's a _good_ thing.
You can damn well shout "Fire!" in a crouded theater... as long as there is actually a fire there.
The reason you can't if there isn't is a matter of causing a panic without cause, and has nothing to do with free speech.
In Liberty, Rene
The north pole is part of Canada.
...which is contested by Denmark, and probably by Russia as well. But since it's just an ice cube anyway, nobody really cares enough to contest Canada's claim vigorously until it melts.
I guess i2p/tor/freenet and other darknets will see another surge of users soon. All these bills do is promoting the use of heavy cryptographic solutions by average citizens and bad guys alike.
Part of this system involves collusion between spy agencies to exchange data. E.g. The US National Security Agency is forbidden from spying on US citizens inside the USA, but the Australian military is not, and vice-versa. They get around this by swapping data. Your emails are ALREADY available to the Vic Toews.
This was true 15 years ago. Since then, the US has added legislation sidestepping the issue in pursuit of "national security". This latest legislation is Canada's answer to this "modernization". My guess is that the secret agreements regarding echelon (or just the hardware) have atrophied, such that it makes more sense just to monitor your own country's people than to attempt to get the information you're looking for out of the Echelon project.
I obviously meant yelling "FIRE" when there was no fire. Being prohibited from yelling "FIRE" at any old time most definitely has something to do with free speech: you're not free to say that particular bit of speech at a particular time. Why that is doesn't really matter in practice: it's still a limit to free speech.
Bill C51 and Bill C11 for media companies to sue everyone in Canada and to let the Harper Gov to spy on Canadian citizens to weed out anyone talking bad about The Harper Government.
Bill C10 to lock up and scare people away from smoking weed since it opens up their minds to the corruption
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Back in the 1030s Hitler is reported to have said something along these lines
First time I've heard of this Methuselah Hitler!! Scary stuff...
This is a UDP joke, I don't care if you get it or not...
You can't vote a government out, you can only vote another government in...
Not true in Canada. Citizens can petition to have the government thrown out... plus the opposition can have a vote of non confidence. The second almost happened; the first would have happened except for the fact that Canadians had no viable option to Harper that looked like they could do better.
Theoretically the citizens can petition for anything they want to and the government can simply ignore it. The opposition can't succeed in a vote of non-confidence unless they get a majority of MPs in parliament to agree, which they wont, since the majority is already in power.
so if the first happened it would achieve nothing. And the 2nd will not happen in a majority government unless the PM loses the confidence of his own party. The confidence of the opposition is moot.
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
Petition all you want, the only place it matters is with the provincial govermnment in BC. And there you need a seperate petition for each MLA.
Have every ISP monitor and publish the internet traffic coming from all MP's houses , offices, mistress' apartment. I am certain the amount of piracy is higher from these places than any other Canadian home, after all the head of the households are obviously crooks, which follws their offspring will be as bad or worse.
As a result, this bill will change nothing new on that front. It can be assumed that the US has been spying on Canada extensively and sharing almost everything it gathers with Canada since 1947. (And vice versa)
What I believe it will achieve is a dramatic increase in the size of the intel databases, allowing intel to go from detective-style work to wholesale data mining.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
The data speaks by itself. It is conservatives who want the draconian law and order stuff everywhere in the world. Just open your eyes. It is irresponsible to pretend otherwise and censor those who point out this inconvenient fact.
I think Norway also claims it.
But we've got the closest settlement (Alert) and we also assigned it a postal code. ;)
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
The fuckin' Harper government also previously called anyone who was opposed to the Enbridge Northern Gateway Oil Pipeline an "enemy of the government of Canada" and an "enemy of the people of Canada". So much for debate and democracy. Bunch of fascist pigs.
"In order to get rid of terrorism, we, the government, need to execute every citizen and person on the planet. Anyone who opposes this is clearly a terrorist and/or supports the rights of terrorists!"
That logic is simply undeniable.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Can't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
But seriously, my votes in the last few elections have been protest votes. Goldring was the guy in my area at that time, and look what he did. I voted for the also-rans.
This is bad. Sadly, one of my best friends thinks Harper is a trustworthy, nice guy. Reality is he's as slimy as they come.
This has little to do with IP (though I'm sure their lobbyists aren't displeased).
This is about Harper being a lunatic who thinks the way to a peaceful society is to just criminalize (and jail!) everyone, regardless of how small or large their crimes are. Hell he's got to build a large number (I think it was like 20+) of new jails to handle all of the extra people he's planning to criminalize.
The "lawful access" crap that we're discussing here was actually part of a much larger omnibus crime bill. Its only through the efforts of OpenMedia.ca and other groups that these laws were pulled from the omnibus bill and set to be judged on their own merits.
Even if "lawful" access doesn't pass, Harper's planning on shoveling a lot of rights-trampling laws down our throats in the non-electronic world.
And of course the omnibus bill has enough legitimately good parts stuffed in there to discourage dissent among the voting politicians. Combined with the "fast-tracking," its essentially designed to piggy back through a bunch of crap laws that shouldn't exist on the back of a few good ones that should, and with little or no time given to discuss, dissect and rewrite the parts that suck.
I'm guessing you're new to politics in Canada, otherwise you'd know that people here do punish political parties for the things that the left did in the last 3 elections. People were fine with a minority government actually. The NDP along with Liberals decided they wanted to be the ones in power. The previous two before the last were incremental increases in the conservatives power. The most recent was a simple sign from the electorate that they were tired of the tactics they were pulling. And punished both parties for it. This is the same reason why the Bloc suffered a crushing defeat in Quebec at the hands of the NDP.
You say you're ashamed? I'm more disappointed that you fail to understand the fundamental core in the passiveness of politics in Canada. Until political parties "rock the boat" people don't mind. The electorate will punish you for it. As for Jack? He didn't have a chance in hell. Good politician, great debater, but every province that the NDP has been control of has suffered massive debt increases at the hands of the NDP. And that would bring them crashing down in the polls.
But hey, you like to blame Harper for the G20? Let's not forget Darth Jean(Chretien), and the previous G20 escapades okay? Or is it because you're so partisan that you're glossing these over. Or the fact that he's actually choked people publicly, or that he was the most corrupt PM we ever had, along with his cabinet. They're still tracking down money that he and his cronies stole, hid, and funneled off for themselves. They couldn't hide them all away in diplomatic posts where they couldn't be recalled, or funnel it off to friends. There's a serious reason why the electorate turned on the Liberals, and it wasn't because of one thing.
Om, nomnomnom...
That's not called voting. That's called treason.
Harper lacks the imagination to be a wannabe tyrant. He's just copying what the US does. He hasn't exactly disguised the fact that imitating whatever the US does, no matter how stupid, is the only political belief he actually has.
The point he's making is this: In Canada your speech, media and other expressions of self are restricted. I made this same comment on the ISP-Canuck thread the other day. In Canada this has allowed heavy abuse by non-binding organizations that exist outside of the judicial system to fine people, and tie them up with legal fees for doing things like. Speaking 'unpleasant things' like being against homosexuality, or publishing the motoons, or having opinionated opinions.
The S1 provision of the charter removes fundamental freedoms, making all freedoms in Canada subject to law. So as it stands now, if I went down to the centre of my city. With giant billboards in hand, with the motoons, I'm sure I'd have the police come up. Haul me off, take my name and address. Eventually, let me go. I'd be summoned before either the CHRC(Canadian human rights counil) or the ontario version. Then spend the next 3-8 years and 100k-1m on legal fees fighting them, ending up a broken person, because I was exercising my right to show something which was already published. Because someone was "offended" by an image.
Om, nomnomnom...
Temporarily.
Now we just need to get rid of it permanently, get rid of the TSA, get rid of the Patriot Act, get rid of the concept of free speech zones, drastically change our current two party system, get rid of any and all warrantless wiretapping/surveillance, get rid of any unconstitutional laws, get rid of this "for the children" mentality that encourages censorship, and probably many other things, as well.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
until you can afford to provide your innocence.
Throughout history, people have provided their innocence with weapons. ;)
I think you have Canada confused with Israel, sir....
In Canada, the Mint prints everyone else's money.
In Canada, the media are owned by a small number of non-Jewish families.
In Canada, academia is owned by the government (and they are DEFINITELY not Jewish).
I know this was meant to be a "rave at the ignorant masses" post, or possibly a troll, but seriously. You don't even seem to be aware of what country you are pointing your diatribe in the general direction of.
Now if you'd s/JEW/AMERICAN/, some people may agree with you -- even though (at this point) they'd still be incorrect.
Well as it stands now. To get a warrant to do a tap for a cellphone, or on a computer. You need to complete between 6 to 10 other warrants first covering the old stuff. The law is a convoluted mess. This is because there's no wording under the law for computers or cellphones. There's also no extingent circumstances clause under the law for computers or cellphones either. Or pagers, or well any electronic device. Doesn't exist. None.
Though to get a warrant for a landline, or intercept mail, or anything like that. You only need to do what you normally do. With normal provable information that would prove to a judge that a landline tap is valid and reasonable. Then give that information to a judge for the warrant. And give it to the provider/canada post/or parcel provider. Or you need to be able to prove that there are extingent circumstances, and you don't need a warrant. Extingent circumstances by the way are also called 'ticking bomb' circumstances, where someones life is in danger. And the time for a warrant is too long. This has already been in law for landlines and mail for decades and society has yet to come to a screeching halt. It also has very strong rules covering it, and any abuse of it is automatic jail time of no less than 10 years.
Canada does have serious problems with organized crime. Always has, it's actually gotten worse since the mohawk warrior bands got into smuggling drugs, guns and weapons from the US. As for kiddie diddlers? Well, they're out there. But I can't say that it's that much of a problem compared to organized crime.
Om, nomnomnom...
Yeah and also $#@% them for offering to sell all that safe, ethical oil to us first.
I get the feeling that you're writing this tongue-in-cheek, at least a little bit. But what you're saying is supported by other evidence.
The ruling Reform Party, (er, The Progressive Conservatives - yeah, that's it!), have embarked on a 'tough on crime agenda', (one of whose major points is a $150M prison expansion), at a time when Statistics Canada reports that crime rates are lower than they have been in almost 50 years. So it seems likely that the government will do everything it can to increase the crime rate, even if that means coining new crimes and creating new guilty-until-proven-innocent victims. After all, what else are they gonna do with those new prison cells?
This is what comes of a government that is faith-based and driven by ideology, as opposed to one that is evidence-based and motivated by its citizens' welfare. These people truly excel at magical thinking - it's no surprise to find that most of them are religious fundamentalists of some stripe or other. I'm ashamed of my fellow Canadians for handing these dangerous clowns a majority, and I'm sad that the country I love is slowly rotting away from within under the influence of fanatically and/or opportunistically religious corporate whores.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
its all about money to you Cons. We, the majority of Canadians, want Harper out -- end of story -- because he's a mini-Bush, bend over backwards for Americans, little bitch. Bringing draconian laws into Canada that the others wouldn't have done, copying the U.S. He's a huge hypocrite, I'm also ashamed for anyone who voted for him.
I'd vote for someone who stands up for what he believes in and stands up to America, I would have loved to see Jack Layton as PM, I believe he would have done an excellent job challenging the laws the Cons have put forth.
The Canadians are desperately trying to to get the award for the worlds number one bad guys. From internet surveillance to the selling of asbestos ( which must rank as a crime against humanity ) nothing is to evil if there is a buck to be made
I spoke too soon. Now you're either with the Tories, or you're with the child pornographers. There couldn't possibly be any other reason to oppose this.
Harper government also previously called anyone who was opposed to the Enbridge Northern Gateway Oil Pipeline an "enemy of the government of Canada" and an "enemy of the people of Canada".
So, in one day, I'm now considered to be facilitating child pornography, in cahoots with organized crime, and am a traitor. Monday's not going well for me this week.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Well partially. The conservatives were found in "Contempt of Parliament" when they refused to release documents related to how much various items in the budget would cost. They introduced a bill, the opposition wanted to know how much it would cost, but *refused* to supply the documents and were found guilty (by the speaker of the house?) of doing this. If I recall correctly, it had to do with the Omnibus crime bill, (i.e. making more jails, spending more money, making more criminals, spending more money) and the proposed cost of the F-35 fighter jets. Their figure of approx 19 Billion dollars was based on the previous liberal government's estimate (Go back in time and figure out when they were last in power 2001?) and the engines on the jets were not even considered. It was estimated by an unbiased source that this would cost over 30 Billion dollars. So asking parliaments support for a bill even though you don't have the cost is pretty outrageous. Either that or they knew the cost but were hiding it, even worse. The opposition then decided that this was outrageous and all the opposition parties who had a majority kicked them out, which had a disasterous consequence that the Conservatives got a majority because "They were business friendly". Today they are doing the same thing, because they have a representative majority, they shut down debates, and are basically getting everything passed that they didn't in the last round. They think that they are above the parliamentary conventions of Canada.
Society use your Sciences
Let's not forget Darth Jean(Chretien), [...] that he's actually choked people publicly
Do not forget *why* that happened. At a public outdoor event, his protection detail failed to prevent a lone protester getting in his face to begin with. Maybe Chretien could have just shoved him in the chest, but as the leader of a nation his personal security perimeter was breached, and he was justified in literally taking matters in his own hands.
I would say the same if Harper found himself in the same situation, except Harper tolerates no protests in his vicinity. Give Chretien credit, at least he wasn't afraid to approach a line of protesters in a public venue.
Yes, we need to do it for the children.
This is even uglier than you think. It is basically a licence for incumbent telecoms to data mine their customers 24/7. It's like it was written by them to allow carte blanche interception of all their customers communications.
It is also a powerful tool for political black mail ensuring the government in power can monitor and control their own sitting representatives and also target opposition representatives. Any site they or their family visited can be used against them in the next election.
It has absolutely nothing to do with policing at all. In fact the whole thing can be readily corrupted with simple tools like track me not http://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/ which obfuscates searches. So new tools that completely randomly access sites in the background.
Note that for political blackmail of political attack adds, those are no protection because the accusation can still be levelled for maximum political benefit during the election cycle. Of course for policing obfuscating technology is a great defence, burying peoples access under ten times, a hundred times even thousands of times more random garbage data.
Definitely still the work of incumbent data mining Telecom who can't see beyond their own greed.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
That's why he along with the RCMP were required to pay him right? You might want to look into the event a bit closer.
Om, nomnomnom...
Well didn't take long for the partisan hacks to come out making nonsense and taking the belief that someone is "x" political stripe. No shock on that one, while randomly throwing out things that make no sense.
Stand up to the US huh? That's why Harper has done more to stand "up" to the US than any PM we've had in the last 25 years right? Layton would have been a terrible PM, but then again the central core of the NDP is spend, spend spend, and spend until Canada would be like Greece. I'm sure that would work out well.
Om, nomnomnom...
There is one other option... convince the Governor General. If you can do that, they have the ability to disband parliament... but due to historical events, they don't actually do it unless it's really really necessary.
The opposition can't succeed in a vote of non-confidence unless they get a majority of MPs in parliament to agree, which they wont, since the majority is already in power.
Actually, it could have an effect... the Conservative Party is not really a party. I give it 12 years tops before it starts to fragment again. The Conservative party is really a coalition party, with all the members clinging together because they realize there's no other way they could get a majority.
Show this group that all the other parties and a large portion of the electorate are opposed to the current leadership, and a number of MPs would be more than happy to jump ship.
That's one of the benefits of not having a party-based system (not that you'd notice from the way politicians represent themselves in Canada).
American Laws bleed across the boarder.
It's OK to spend spend spend bailing out banks. Conservatives have set back canadian national debt repayment of debt by 30 years. Bought I forgot only socialist care about national interest. But that's OK cause we really don't want those pesky social programs like retirement benefits but rather we prefer austerity. I remember a time when freedom from government was on the conservative agenda too.
I was wondering why they carrying around binoculars...
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I love the fact that if you want privacy of any kind now days you must be a criminal of some sort. Obviously if I don't want you in my house looking through all my stuff free reign I must be hiding something....
We didn't do this to ourselves. Less than 40% of voters voted for the Conservatives. Since the turnout rate was just a little over 60% that means that fewer than 25% of eligible Canadian voters actually voted for the Conservatives. Less than 1/4 of the population is dictating all political policy to all Canadians.
I think this should make it official. Canada is no longer a democracy. And it won't be a democracy until we get real electoral reform (such as proportional representation).
"Required"?
[Bill] Clennett can't remember if Chretien hurt him with the choke hold because it all happened so fast. But he did end up breaking the crown on a tooth during the scuffle.
A couple of months later, Clennett says the RCMP showed up at his door and offered to pay the $560 dental fee.
While he initially hesitated, Clennett says he took the money in order to buy an ad in the local French newspaper Le Droit, criticizing the Liberal government.
Even the aggressor/victim says the RCMP came to him and offered to pay. Clennett never even filed a lawsuit. How very Canadian of both the RCMP and Clennett.
Of course someone ordered the RCMP to make the offer, but that's a far cry from the implied "required by a court", and Chretien wasn't personally required to pay.
Perhaps you'd like to look into the aftermath a bit closer?
I DO NOT consent to searches and spying by the government, CSIS, the RCMP, or any other police force in or out of Canada without a proper warrant.
I have nothing to hide, but it is a matter of principal. I have a right to private communications unless someone can explain to a judge why I should be investigated and convince them to sign a warrant.
This bill is useless in reality anyhow, because anyone but the most technically illiterate criminal will use an anonymizer and encryption, so the spying will net no proof of a crime, even if someone is surfing child porn like a psychotic fiend.
This is nothing more than a fishing expedition and an attempt to violate Canadians fundamental right to privacy.
Just say "NO" to politicians who stoop to claiming you support Evil Horrible Unimaginable Thing just because you value your own rights.
Even the Nazi's "Stazi" had to report to someone.
Tories on e-snooping: 'Stand with us or with the child pornographers'
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
so much for my plan to move back to Canada if more big brother like laws are passed in the states. Is there any country safe from big brother laws, immigrant friendly, with sane justice system?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
And those same people that voted against the Liberals and the NDP and for Harper's Conservatives evidently found it was okay for Harper to avoid difficult or embarrassing questions by proroguing Parliament not just once but twice?
I think the main reasons Harper is in power right now are threefold:
* We have an aging population - the older people get the more conservative they tend to be. Young people tend to seek change, older people tend to avoid it.
* The economy sucks, when that happens people prefer minimal change in the hopes that it won't get worse.
* The Liberals had a leader who exhibited virtually no personality, and was seen by many as being too "American" since he had spent a lot of time down south of the border.
Now that's all my personal opinion and its painting things with a very broad brush I realize, but I think demographics are the main reason Harper got into power. Most Canadians ignore politics I think. A lot do not vote. I also suspect that while the NDP gained substantially from the election, gaining official opposition status, more of the exploded Liberal party voted Conservative than NDP, preferring right-wing politics to the risk that the NDP would want to make major changes. :P
I supported the NDP of course in this last election. I have voted both Conservative and Liberal in the past, based on my assessment of who best represented my interests. In the last few elections I have voted against Harper though, not really in favour of anyone else. I think Harper is very bad for Canada. I wouldn't buy a used car from that smarmy bastard
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
s/1030/1930/
s/reported/falsely reported/
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I blame baby boomers.
How is it that the Canadian government finds the resources to spy on every citizen because they might look at a Japanese cartoon but somehow lacks the resources to prosecute the Papist cult for their organised cover-ups of actual child rapists?
The current pope has already been convicted in Germany of direct crime and conspiracy in destroying evidence and tampering with witnesses in multiple cases of child rape by Catholic priests in Germany.
He claims diplomatic immunity but the the man is a criminal head of a criminal organisation and should be treated as such.
How many politicians are pulled over every month in sobriety checkpoints? I'm sure the answer is a significant number - half of congress would probably be in prison if it led to prosecution. Online surveillance by the government isn't going to cause problems for politicians.
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. ” -Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Publ. Houghton Miflin, 1943, Page 403
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
By the time that happened, the country is already having a major crisis and is probably on the brink or already engaged in a civil war. It would take a lot more than a petition by a few concerned citizens.
But yes you are right.
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
The hardware and associated facilities costs to implement "Lawful Access" (as discussed since 2001) are beyond the reach of Canadian ISPs and their customers. If the bill passes, the internet will be done for in Canada, only the richest of the rich would be able to afford what the ISPs would have to charge.
"Lawful Access" as discussed in 2001 proposed that each and every packet delivered by Canadian ISPs be logged. Every single one. Ridiculous. I don't know if even Apple could afford to do that.
I said it ten years ago and I'll say it again: lawful access would be so ridiculously complicated and expensive to implement (think of the storage costs alone), that it has two possible outcomes - complete failure or making the internet so expensive that no one can afford it - neither outcome is desirable.
Yeah, Canada is getting more like the US every day. Sorry to hear that, guys. You had a helluva nice civilised country up there.
Indeed, vivisecting baby seals is the epitome of gentility.
We have a myriad of technical solutions to this problem.
Tor and the .onion domains effectually neutralise the ability of a third party (The state or any other organisation) to perform survailance on internet traffic.
Freenet enables the disemenation of whatever material anybody cares to share, to anybody.
Bitcoin allows unregulated trade.
It should be our goal to spread these existing tools and develop new methods of ensuring information can be transferred between people without fear, censorship, or interferance of any other person.
Don't be a fool. TOR has severe security flaws, and the "technical solution" forcing people to surf with TOR to avoid being tracked is moronic at best.
The fact that such measures exist and could be used by child pornographers (provided it was an effective privacy method) calls to question the necessity of the legislation in the first place.
If the problem is child pornographers, how about monitoring already convicted offenders more closely, and continuing on with the "undercover" operations?
I cannot believe your comment was modded up..
Since when? They eat poutine.
"People's Republic of Canuckistan..." Pat Buchanan called it.
If this had happened in the US the opposition would simply accuse them of hating freedom and pissing on the flag and all that. And that would be the end of that.
... and to suggest the Liberals would have done the same if they were in power is disingenuous at best.
I think the irony is, the Convention on Cybercrime that this bill is meant to ratify was signed in 2001. You know, by the Liberal government. =)
Actually, since it's illegal to listen in on your own citizens without a warrant in both countries this is already being done regularly. Not illegal for Canada to spy on America and vice versa, nor is it illegal to exchange the resulting intelligence. Well the spying might technically be illegal, but that's how it works anyway.
The business name for what you describe is called Arbitrage
This is why many american long distance calls are re-routed through canada. And canadian calls re-route to US and then back up to Canada to complete the connection. In this way all long distance calls can be monitored and recorded as international calls from an outside country. And yes... the data is exchanged. In Canada, the CRTC requested information from the telecom providers to see how often this is happening. The telephone companies never supplied an accurate estimate, but it was reported to be a large percentage. The telephone companies said they do this to make traffic more efficient when transferring calls coast to coast and such. But you got to wonder about the actual efficiency claims when both countries are doing it for each other at the same time. Get it?
It is safe to assume that long distance national calls are recorded and possibly profiled on mass.
If you look through the history of Bill C-30 there have been other bills of exactly the same kind tabled but never made to law. The liberals tabled this bill prior to being outest from power. So someone else has been promoting this bill and the government is just following through with promoting it.
It can be well past assumed. The Canadian intelligence organization(CSUS) specifically trains their agents against US operatives, and most of the largest breaches of data never go anywhere because the US are the ones that get it in the first place.
Whoever is responsible gets quietly fired and no one ever hears about it.
I guess all Canadians are presumed Guilty, until you can afford to provide your innocence.
No. Canadians are presumed innocent until proven guilty -- Just like in the States. That's why you need lots of firepower to be able to prove people guilty when you want to/
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
The system should be changed to something that gives voters a more proper representation of their interests, but the problem is that the problem is left to be fixed by those who get into power using the current system -- and don't want to mess with the system that got them into power.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
The NDP surge was mostly a result of a wind of change in Quebec, that also denied Quebec to the BQ. If it hadn't happened, you would have had a minority (or majority) Conservative government with a split opposition that would have been just as ineffectual as the last one -- given the political unsavouryness of a union with the separatist BQ.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
no, CSIS does not train their operatives against US operatives No one gets fired for leaking information, as the previous posted mentioned, Canada shares all of its intelligence with the US, and the US shares some back. Intelligence agencies dont fire people almost ever, they dont want people who have secret information out on their own, better to keep them employed on the inside Most of Canadas intelligence is SIGINT, done through CSE -- which cannot spy on Canadians, only foreigners and Canadians communicating with foreigners