Ask Slashdot: Dividing Digital Assets In Divorce?

An anonymous reader writes "I am a long time Slashdotter and currently find myself in the beginning of a divorce process. How have you dealt with dispersing of shared data, accounts and things online in such a situation? Domains, hosting, email, sensitive data backups and social media are just a few examples."

Comments

Blegh

[ModernGeek]

You shouldn't have destroyed your individuality by combining all of these things. If you hadn't, maybe you wouldn't be getting divorced.

I'm only saying this so that others may learn from your mistake.

Re:Blegh

[Anonymous Coward]

Generally true, but things like data backups - that's a little trickier to keep separate. Otherwise the examples given are things that should remain separate (email accounts! Duh!!)

Re:Blegh

[owenferguson]

I'd second that. My wife and I always had completely divided online personas, and still do. Shared assets like domains would be split based on the separation agreement, no? As for shared data, each party gets a full backup. Maybe change your passwords if you've shared them with your spouse. I know that I regretted telling my wife my email password when she started to use it as the password for other sites she signed me up for online (FetLife, for example.) We had a long talk that day about the importance of not re-using passwords on multiple sites; she was convinced that there was no way for website owners to see the passwords that their users put in. Thankfully, Lulzsec came along a few years later and vindicated my paranoia...

Re:Blegh

[ganjadude]

Simple solution here is to have separate backup files of separate data. How hard is it to set the routine to make a backup of "robs documents" and another of "debs documents"?

Re:Blegh

[couchslug]

Bingo. The secret to long relationships is not being mingling everything.

I've been with the same woman since 1985. All we share is an Ebay account in my name, and if we part it will be immediately terminated.

I would keep personal copies of ALL data, then go "scorched earth" on everything else. Dump the domains and hosting, splatter formal divorce notices all over all social media in they way they are posted in newspapers (no emotion, just legal facts), and shut down/delete any joint activity. Close all joint accounts, change passwords where appropriate, and in general do "best practices" for employee termination.

  If there are large assets in play, see a lawyer.

Re:Blegh

[girlintraining]

I'm only saying this so that others may learn from your mistake.

So says Forever Alone guy! Yes, it's a mistake to trust anybody. By trust nobody you can ensure your heart remains perfectly safe and you, perfectly alone. This guy decided to take a risk, and yes, maybe in this one case it didn't work out for him, but at least he tries to have someone in his life who's last name isn't JPEG.

Re:Blegh

[foo1752]

I mean even the RIAA and MPAA isn't going to sue for sharing with your wife.

Yet.

Re:Blegh

[PlatyPaul]

This implies that your spouse is OK with the idea of making these backups in the case of potential divorce.

Implying that it could/might happen is dangerous, my friend.

Re:Blegh

[jellomizer]

A good compromise is coming to an agreement where both sides are unhappy.
Sell them to the highest bidder. Then split the money. If you can't sell it destroy it.

shared data: Delete it... Or make a duplicate copy of it...
accounts: Close them and make yourself new ones.
Domains: Sell it to the highest bidder and split the cash.
hosting: Copy the data split it if you can, make duplicate copies and delete the rest. Then cancel your hosting.
email: Shared Emails what are you some type of idiot... Well email everyone with your new email and cancel your old one.
sensitive data backups: Divide what is yours and what is hers. If you both need it you make a copy of it.
social media: change your relationship status.

Being however had asked such a stupid question I would expect what will happen is your ex will get it all. As you are either really dumb or gullible, to share such items... Or you are so dense that you can't realize that digital data can be copied.

However if you have any common sense you are going to remember to try to be fare with your divorce. If your not, you will be the bad guy.

Re:Blegh

[owenferguson]

Because I have other shit to do.

Re:Blegh

[PlatyPaul]

Do you both have rights to them? That's the whole point of the question: who "owns" the intentionally-shared "mutually"-created data?

Re:Blegh

[LoudNoiseElitist]

This discussion is tiring. I'd like a pre-nap right now.

Re:Blegh

[chadenright]

It's not that hard, but somehow it's much less satisfying than burning paper copies. Plus there's the gasoline, and the smell...

Re:Blegh

[dgatwood]

Unless you have a preexisting contract to the contrary, the legal rights to a work (copyright) are divided equally among all of the work's creators.

However, most of your data was not created mutually. Most photos, for example, were taken by one person or the other. In that case, they are actually mere contributions to a collection. Thus, ownership belongs to the person who shot the photo. This is straightforward most of the time, because the other person is usually in the picture. And arguably, if you are both in the picture, unless you used a tripod, someone else probably owns the copyright, though any claim is usually pretty unlikely.

That said, you can, as a condition of the divorce, contractually transfer all rights into a shared pool such that you both hold 50% rights in every photo. This is probably the easiest solution, assuming either of you cares enough to bother arguing about such a minor point.

Re:Blegh

[trdrstv]

Combining EVERYTHING is a sure fire way to not only lose yourself, but also lose what that other person was attracted to. IMO life needs a careful balance of:

1) "Family time" - you + her + kids or extended family (parents, cousins, etc...)

2) "Couple time" - time when it's just you and her.

3) "Alone time" - when you both are completely separated and "do your own thing".

There are certain things that we each like that the other doesn't (or doesn't to the same degree). She HATES the cold and I love to ski... doesn't mean I have to give up skiing, I just don't take her with me when I go. Every so often one of us stays home with our son and the other goes out for a "guys night out / girls night out" and I honestly feel we are both the better for it. Being with someone means combining and sharing a multitude of things, but you don't have to lose yourself in the process.

Re:Blegh

[Grishnakh]

I have to question that statistic, however. Isn't 50% for ALL marriages? That doesn't apply to everyone. If you're in your first marriage, you don't care how many total marriages end in divorce, you only care how many first marriages end in divorce. I do remember reading that the failure rate for marriages goes up with the marriage number; i.e., the number of failures for 2nd marriages is much higher than first marriages, the number for 3rd marriages is higher still, and 4th marriages, well you might as well not bother if you couldn't make it work with the first three. If you're in your first marriage, you don't care that some losers on their 4th and 5th marriages are almost certain to get another divorce, because that's a different group of people from you. First marriages are the most likely to succeed (not that that number is all that high, but it's still better than the failure rate for all marriages).

Re:Blegh

[gauauu]

If your partner is so self-deluded that they can't imagine they'd be in one of the 50% of marriages that end in divorce, you chose poorly. Mature people understand that things change, people change, and they can grow apart through no fault of anyone. Do you really want to base the most important relationship of your adult life on denial?

There so much sad and self-defeating about that statement that I don't know where to start. When I got married, I made a commitment, a promise, to always love her. Even if I feel tired of her. Even if she's changed. That's not denial, that's mature people realizing that there's a whole lot more joy in working through hard times and ending up with a stronger relationship as a result, than being one the 50% of people who just give up and throw in the towel when it gets hard. I'm not preparing for divorce because I've made a promise that I won't. I intend to keep that promise, even if one of us changes. THAT is what mature people do.

Re:Blegh

[DarthBart]

Both of them... unless one of them is a vindictive twat who doesn't want to share something that costs them nothing.

It's a divorce. By definition someone is going to be a vindictive twat. Every divorce I've seen has been a race to see which party can be the bigger baby.

Re:Blegh

[Hatta]

There's nothing sad and self-defeating about being realistic. Saying "it could never happen to me", now THAT's sad and self defeating.

Re:Blegh

[couchslug]

I've seen too many "mingled" examples turn into disasters.

In the Air Force, I had to counsel folks from airmen to NCOs who "thought" they had a life mate until they went TDY and came back to an empty house, no money, and their love match getting pounded (by someone else) like a cheap steak. Pulling First Sergeant duty (I was an assistant, and glad it wasn't full time!) is very educational.

My way has a parachute. I may never need to pull the ejection handle, but it's there. The other way is terrific until it isn't, and then it's much more messy.

Good luck, but I could never ethically advise anyone to try it that way.

Re:Blegh

[AGMW]

(I'm happily married to my first wife, so I have only the experience of others to draw on.)

Word to the wise, don't let her hear you calling her your first wife!

Re:Blegh

[element-o.p.]

IMHO, gauauu isn't saying "It could never happen to me." He's saying, "It's (sometimes) hard work, and if I don't commit to this person, it WILL end in divorce...but I'm going to do everything in my power to keep it from getting there." That's neither sad nor self-defeating. It's optimistic (maybe IYHO foolishly so, but I'd disagree), hopeful and *powerful*. That's the way I approached my marriage. This is my first (and by my intentions, only) wife; however, she was married twice before we met. That kind of skews the odds against us a bit (ever become an instant parent to a teenager? I did...holy crap, did I not know what I was in for!), but that was twelve years ago, so we're doing something right.

Some things in life are worth fighting for and worth working hard for. My marriage is one of those things. Apparently, gauauu thinks his is, too. YMMV, but IMHO, the odds of making it are inversely related to how much you expect it to fall apart, so why would you possibly approach marriage expecting it to fail?!?!

Re:Blegh

[mr1911]

Simple solution here is to have separate backup files of separate data. How hard is it to set the routine to make a backup of "robs documents" and another of "debs documents"?

If my wife knew about Deb that would make the divorce inevitable and immediate.

easy

[Anonymous Coward]

burn it on a dvd and call it a day

Shared data

[xlsior]

How have you dealt with dispersing of shared data

If only there were a way to make multiple copies of digital information...

Just been through this myself ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just been through this myself. My solution was to let her keep all the photographs, videos, accounts, etc etc. So I get a clean break, and no unwanted reminders in the future of a very dark period of my life. Seriously, you should at least consider the benefits of leaving it all behind, and letting the past stay in the past.

Wow.

[grub]

That was the most round-about way ever of saying "My parents are throwing my 38 year old ass out of the basement."

I'm confused about the backups.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't you simply make copies?

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, you've never seen a spy movie. Of course you can't! There's just the one disk and that's it!

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[hal2814]

No! That's stealing! You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet and go to the toilet in it... would you?

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[aix tom]

No, unless the previous night I was REALLY drunk.

"We're on a mining ship, three million years into deep space... can someone explain to me where the smeg I got this traffic cone?"

"Hey! It's not a good night unless you get a traffic cone! It's the police woman's helmet and the suspenders I don't understand!"

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[Ced_Ex]

No.

Destroy everything leave nothing to your spouse. Divorces are never pretty.

Pyrrhic victory for the win!

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[Derkec]

They're never pretty and are frequently ugly, but really don't have to be all that bad.

I'm divorced (and now happily re-married!) and while painful, the divorce wasn't ugly. We hired a lawyer together to help us through the paperwork. If you're cheap, there are also forms at Staples. The lawyer was well worth it. I kept most of the furniture and cut my ex a check in return. I had stuff, she had some cash, we were both ok and clear of any alimony claims. I probably could have fought and paid a little less to my ex and a whole lot more to lawyers.

Remember that at the very least you once loved that other person. Treat eachother with some respect, and part civilly. It's strange when you're called, "a model divorcing couple" but a million times better than going to war.

Re:I'm confused about the backups.

[IceNinjaNine]

I'm divorced (and now happily re-married!) and while painful, the divorce wasn't ugly. We hired a lawyer together to help us through the paperwork.

and

Remember that at the very least you once loved that other person. Treat eachother with some respect, and part civilly. It's strange when you're called, "a model divorcing couple" but a million times better than going to war.

Some days I read Slashdot and think "Wow.. sometimes it *is* good to be a geek".. (translated: many of us here have a bit of introspection). It's good to read this. My own divorce (a dissolution actually) was finalized late last year. We were husband and wife techies, and split everything right down the middle. She didn't want the house (being an engineer she wanted mobility for her career), so she received more cash than she normally would have. Are things weird in the aftermath? Yes. Are there hurt feelings? Yes. Do we hate each other? No. That being said, I'm glad we did it.

Had we gone to war we would have burnt through 15k a piece in legal fees, MINIMUM. Our combined total using one attorney was 2500 bucks. With kids it probably would have gone up by a factor of 2-5x.

Two things of note to the young'ns out there: I once read that in reality you should be at least 27 years old before marrying (there's some sort of psychological and brain development still occurring up to that point), and if you marry and start to have problems, do NOT do what a few of my moronic (okay, misguided) friends have done and said "Oh, this sucks.. but.. let's have kids and try to make it better." That's right, I've seen it more than once: people think that having kids will be a FIX for a marriage that's not working... and it's not.

Re:being able to buy things and share them

[TaoPhoenix]

Sorry, this is flawed in a lot of ways.

In a sense there is no economic advantage between just living together as lovers and being married. One funny example used to be that the standard deductions of one Head of Household and one Single, both triggering on lower overall brackets was cheaper than the married rate on combined income, and other tricks.

Then there's the very real cost of the alimony/child care process. Guy starts out with house, guy should end up with house. But watch the number of times she gets it.

Or the kids. Woman starts out poor, woman has a kid, woman divorces two years later, woman keeps kid, woman gets payments GREATER than they would have spent together on the kid being frugal.

Plus the copyright angle of making "full backups" of database based assets is hysterical.

Some (possibly obvious) points for you to consider

[Fubari]

Some (possibly obvious) points for you to consider:
If the "digitial assets" have significant monetary value: ask your lawyer. (the "digital assets" probably have low monetary value, or you wouldn't be asking about them here.)
If the "digitial assets" have significant sentimental value: burn yourself a copy, hand them over to your future-ex, and sincerely say "Thank you for the wonderful memories."

(Just out of curiosity on my part, what kind of advice did you expect to get without actually describing the nature and value of the "digital assets"?)

Lastly, consider this: how important is it for you to win?
Divorces can be ugly. I've seen friends destroy each others sanity and inflict long-term damage on their souls in order to "win" and "be right"
Five years from now, would you rather be busy enjoying a new chapter in your life or sipping daily from a nasty glass of old & bitter resentments?

Re:Simple...

[petes_PoV]

You get all the 1's - she gets all the 0's

Here's your checklist

[BenderX]

If you can copy it (CDs, MP3s, data on cloud storage), each person gets a copy.
If it's locked down with DRM (iTunes) assign a value and divvy up along with physical assets.
If it's a photo from your time together, put it in an archive directory called "/poisoned" and never open that directory again.
Most email accts and social media are per individual, but if not, just let it go and start fresh.
If it's critical to your future (the domain for your business), cover it in the divorce decree.

Re:being able to buy things and share them

[superwiz]

Guy starts out with house, guy should end up with house. But watch the number of times she gets it.

Even if she gives up a career to raise the guy's children? If there is a specialization of roles in a contractual relationship, then one side may have an advantage if the contract is severed. This is why people sue for breach of contract. Well, marriage is also a contract.

Like everything lse in life, "it depends"

[tomhudson]

It depends on whether there was a marriage contract or not, and also when the assets (for example, the domain names) were acquired, as well as their purpose.

Domains that were acquired as a hobby and have no pecuniary value go with the person who is listed on the whois, unless that person was listed just for conveniences' sake - then they should go to the real owner.

Domains that have a financial value that were acquired before the marriage generally stay with the person who brought them into the marriage, same as other assets generally (YMMV, of course, depending on local laws, etc).

Domains that are worth $$$ that were acquired during the marriage in the course of business stay with the business. So, it's all about how each party is compensated for their contribution to the business. Does one party buy the other out, or just get a share of the business itself if it's a multi-million-buck operation (not likely)?

WARNING: Many places have special laws concerning copyrights staying with the original author even if the material was created during a marriage (it does not become part of the "partnership" assets)! The question rarely came up in previous decades, so most divorce lawyers are totally clueless about this.

Re:Like everything lse in life, "it depends"

[Chrisq]

WARNING: Many places have special laws concerning copyrights staying with the original author even if the material was created during a marriage (it does not become part of the "partnership" assets)! The question rarely came up in previous decades, so most divorce lawyers are totally clueless about this.

In the UK its really complex. Generally individually held copyrights belong to the individual (though you may have to pay a proportion of the proceeds), but if held by a business they are split-able - even if the business is a sole proprietor. So if you run a computer business the work you did for that then the copyright could be split but if you developed something as a hobby you can't lose it.

Re:being able to buy things and share them

[epyT-R]

depends on the situation. they're his if it benefits her in some way. if it benefits her for them to not be his, then they're not.