Slashdot Mirror


Ask Slashdot: Best Practices For Leaving an IT Admin Position?

An anonymous reader writes "I've been the server admin at a university for the past five years. Recently, I was given the chance to move from servers to networking, and I jumped at it. I now find myself typing up all my open-ended projects, removing certain scripts and stopping others. What would the community recommend as best practices for passing on administration of some servers? I am trying to avoid a phone call that results in me having to remote in, explain something, jog to the other side of campus to access the machine, etc. Essentially, I'm trying to cover all my bases so any excuse my replacement has to call me is seen as nothing but laziness or incompetence. I am required to give him a day of training to show him where everything is on the servers (web and database), and during that day I'm going to have him change all the passwords. But aside from locking myself out and knowing what is where, what else should I be doing?"

290 comments

  1. Wiki by cyrano.mac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Build an internal Wiki. You won't be free from questions since you can 't cover everything in a one day training session. I'd make that two half days with a month or so in between.

    1. Re:Wiki by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget the "in case of emergency" glass case equipped with a suicide pill.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You won't be free from questions since you can 't cover everything in a one day training session. I'd make that two half days with a month or so in between.

      Indeed. It is not realistic to expect that you can cover everything in the documentation you are now creating and a single day of training. There's always things you forget. Things you find totally self-evident because you have grown so accustomed to them but that are not for your replacement.
      Scheduling another training day somewhere down the line after the replacement has settled in a bit. If you agree to handle any remaining questions at that time there's no reason for the replacement to bother you in the mean time, unless it is really urgent.

    3. Re:Wiki by laejoh · · Score: 5, Funny

      Na, use two letters.

      You know, when they forced Khruschev out, he sat down and wrote two letters to his successor. He said - "When you get yourself into a situation you can't get out of, open the first letter, and you'll be safe. When you get yourself into another situation you can't get out of, open the second letter". Well, soon enough, this guy found himself into a tight place, so he opened the first letter. Which said - "Blame everything on me". So he blames the old man, it worked like a charm. He got himself into a second situation he couldn't get out of, he opened the second letter. It said - "Sit down, and write two letters".

    4. Re:Wiki by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 3, Informative

      I agree with the wiki idea. You should also diagram your whole environment. Both the physical machines and also the applications and how they fit together. Then, unless you're going to let the guy follow you around for two weeks, you're going to have to provide support.

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    5. Re:Wiki by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with this, but in reality the time when you are leaving is not the time to be setting that up, it should have been set up on the very first day the person started - lets face it, you are *never* going to be able to document everything now, its a hopeless task. If you manage to touch on everything, then you will miss the little foibles that even you have forgotten (until the next time you have to touch that function yourself).

    6. Re:Wiki by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Informative

      I thought you are supposed to keep documentation of your setup since day 1, in case of a bus error.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Wiki by dimeglio · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mod this up... As a manager, I would be a total failure if I didn't ensure all systems were adequately documented. Yes, it's probably the most challenging task next to HR.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    8. Re:Wiki by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "You won't be free from questions since you can 't cover everything in a one day training session. I'd make that two half days with a month or so in between."

      Great idea, but I charge $90.00 an hour with a 1 hour minimum for EVERY call I get after my last day. Honestly, why would Anyone work for free?

      This tactic stopped the calls, today I do this on my exit interview. I charge a per hour rate unless the company is willing to give me continued free stuff if they expect free stuff. For example I told Comcast that I'll answer question on the phone for free if they continue my free Ultimate cable TV with all pay channels and top tier internet. Otherwise I charge per phone call and per hour.

      Most of my calls were answered with, "did you look in the lumpy operations manual I left on my desk the last day I was there? as the answers you need are in there. and Manager X has all the passwords. I cant give you any passwords over the phone."

      I left a good detailed file, but some people are too lazy to read a document or ask the proper person for the login information. It's another reason why I charge. I get to tax laziness and stupidity.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Wiki by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds great, most managers refuse to allot time for IT to do this. do you give them 4-8 hours a week to get documentation proper?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:Wiki by Antimus · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points I'd use every one on this post.

    11. Re:Wiki by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're supposed to, but if nobody asks for it then it likely doesn't happen since lack of work documentation would be somewhere around #43542 on my list of worries should I end up in a traffic accident. And if your manager is ridden hard to always do new system and new projects, well he too might let it slip until the shit hits the fan. It's the same way documentation and testing have a mysterious way of disappearing from development plans. Sometimes it seems companies are happy to find a scapegoat, but do nothing about the system that leads to it being that way.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    12. Re:Wiki by Aggrajag · · Score: 1

      I used to work for an OEM about a decade ago but I still could basically reproduce the manufacturing process thanks to the fact that us in IT had to document and certify every step.

    13. Re:Wiki by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      When I left my last job as the sole network/server/helpdesk guy, my old boss asked me to come in 5 evenings over the course of 6 weeks to train the new guy. The first two or three times were within a week to give him the overview and the rest were later on when he ran into things he wasn't experienced with. I still get a quick email every few weeks with a question about something or other. Of couse, I made sure I got paid for every minute I was training the new guy.

    14. Re:Wiki by Anrego · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly, why would Anyone work for free?

      No idea.. but I've done it and still do from time to time. Someone calls me up with a question that I can answer without a great deal of effort, especially if it's a reasonable question (not documented, ambiguous, etc..), I'll answer it.

      Big part of it is everywhere I've worked I've considered most of my co-workers friends and still hang around with several from previous jobs. I see it more as helping a buddy out than providing free labour (and again, a lot of the time we are talking a 10 second question.. usually followed by 5 minutes of enjoyable conversation / catching up). I guess if you are in an uptight all-business environment or didn't really like your previous co-workers I can understand.

    15. Re:Wiki by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thankfully, unlike in politics(where we call them "culture" or "institutions" or "traditions") everybody in IT fucking hates legacy systems.

      Do your successor the favor-he-won't-immediately-recognize-as-such by employing a fire-axe to allow him the room to build the systems according to his own vision from day one.

      Sure, the first week or two will be rather stressful; but he'll thank you in the end.

    16. Re:Wiki by BrokenHalo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you are in a position to leave without being escorted hastily out of the door within a few minutes of handing in your notice, you might consider yourself to be in luck.

      I can understand the rationale behind such a practice in a toxic workplace where such suspicious attitudes are rife, but it doesn't feel good being on the receiving end of it.

      This happened to me once, back in 1990. I thought I was doing the right thing by giving plenty of notice so that a replacement could be found and given an orderly handover, but my desk was immediately cleared by the HR manager, who then personally escorted me out and drove me to my house to pick up the terminals and modem hardware I used to drive the systems outside hours from home. It felt like I was being sacked.

    17. Re:Wiki by karnal · · Score: 1

      +1 funny if that was actually an Adventure Time reference.

      --
      Karnal
    18. Re:Wiki by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it seems companies are happy to find a scapegoat, but do nothing about the system that leads to it being that way.

      I've seen this very recently. Seems some managers don't really want to fix problems, they just want them to go away.

    19. Re:Wiki by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Build an internal Wiki. You won't be free from questions since you can 't cover everything in a one day training session. I'd make that two half days with a month or so in between.

      To be honest, you should have done this 5 years ago. Everything should be documented at the time you build it, so if you leave / die someone can pick up supporting what you put in place. I know many people might come back saying this is a waste of time, but it is the only way to be sure that everything that needs to be gets documented. Trying to figure out what bits of the last 5 years need documenting now is a nightmare and you are guaranteed to miss stuff. Doing 5 years of systadmin stuff with no documentation of how it all fits together is like doing 5 years of coding with no comments or supporting program design work.

      This advice might be too late to help the original poster, but hopefully someone else out there will see the benefit of this.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    20. Re:Wiki by Ash+Vince · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thankfully, unlike in politics(where we call them "culture" or "institutions" or "traditions") everybody in IT fucking hates legacy systems.

      That is how you can tell a good IT person from a great IT person. The one who is truly brilliant will sit down and learn his way around everything, he might hate it but he will learn every last wire or line of code before making any improvements of his own.

      The ones who come straight in and want to change how everything works from day one before they fully understand how it all interrelates are going to screw something up sooner or later.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    21. Re:Wiki by hardie · · Score: 2

      I like the Wiki idea, but it could be expanded. You can really learn something when you teach it. As you provide bits of support to the new person, make them add the info to the Wiki. Then the question shouldn't come up again.

      I ended up in test engineering at a small manufacturer due to the former person getting seriously ill. When I finally moved back to design, I kept getting calls from the new test engineer and from test operators (who knew which person had the answer). One day I was out. I came back to a pile of messages, started digging through them. Lo and behold, most of them had been solved in my absence! Be helpful and give support, but don't make it too easy.

    22. Re:Wiki by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The other consideration here in my opinion is that he's not even really "moving on". I've worked in universities, changing departments is certainly changing jobs, but you're not going to get out of being helpful that easily. I spent at least a few hours a weeks helping out other departments, and I wasn't even in the position OP is in of having moved internally. Barring some kind of university politics that make Old Boss and New Boss hate each other, universities tend to be friendly places with lots of resource sharing. All it will take is for the old department head to call down and be like "$newkid is having some issues can you spare Soulskill for an hour or so?" and new boss will not only probably agree, he'll likely be glad to help. Old department head is likely a friend, and at the very least having him owe a favor is worth a few minutes of the new hire's time. Much better to just accept ahead of time that another day, or at least half day, is likely to be needed a couple of weeks in, and plan accordingly.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    23. Re:Wiki by TheLink · · Score: 1

      So if you give them 12 months notice, do they sack you or are you still on their payroll for 12 months?

      --
    24. Re:Wiki by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Documentation is part of the job. Are you saying that managers do not give you time to do your job?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    25. Re:Wiki by FridayBob · · Score: 1

      Yes, a wiki are great, but in this case it needs to contain useful information. The wiki forces you to organize what you know about the network and how everything is related, but it's a lot of work and it takes time and effort to do it properly. The bigger and/or more complicated the network in question, the longer it will take to complete an adequate set of documents.

      Documentation is not something you start on a day or a week before you leave: it's something that should be created as soon as possible and maintained for the life of the network. It's damn useful even if you're not planning on going anywhere! But if you're only considering it after handing in your resignation, you're too late.

    26. Re:Wiki by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      It is the only way to avoid punching a hole in something unintentionally...

      Most systems are so interconnected that doing much of anything without an understanding of what it will affect will break things in obscure and hard to detect ways.. until shit lights on fire :p

    27. Re:Wiki by Striikerr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds great, most managers refuse to allot time for IT to do this. do you give them 4-8 hours a week to get documentation proper?

      I'm sorry but documentation must always be accounted for when working and planning projects. Much of the documentation should have been drawn up even before the project starts with the rest of it being completed once the project is completed. I have a hard time finding pity for those who build a server and don't document it or add on a service or recurring task through a scheduled script without writing it all out on paper. I have on several occasions had to sort out the resulting mess when moving into a new job. (in fact, I am working through such a situation now).
      Any manager who does not allow time for documentation is either incompetent or lacks experience. When I leave a position with a company, I always leave a wealth of documentation behind. Don't forget how much time is saved trying to troubleshoot a problem because you have some documentation available. It sucks being in a position of trying to figure out how something is configured and is supposed to work when it is down and you have people crowding around you waiting for it to be fixed.

      To the original poster, the reality is that you failed to properly document the environment. Now you have to suffer by being available to constantly answer questions as your replacement tries to sort out the mess he has inherited from you. The organization suffers because it is exposed to risk as the administrator does't know how everything works and has no resource (documentation) to refer to. Your replacement has to suffer as he tries to sort out what you've left behind. If I left a mess like that behind me, I would be embarrassed and take steps to ensure that it does not happen again. Since you'll still be working there (in a different position) you'll have the pleasure of walking around knowing that your co-workers know what a mess you left behind. If you want a solution, spend a lot of time going through each system and write up detailed documentation and prepare an overview or summary of the entire environment which shows how it all interconnects etc. From now on, take some pride in what you do by doing it properly.

    28. Re:Wiki by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Oh, I was paid out for my notice period, but the treatment was still unnecessarily rough, since I had done nothing to merit that distrust.

    29. Re:Wiki by omglolbah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes. That is what most IT people will say.

      It hurts but that is how it is.

      When I left my previous job I left 12000 lines of badly commented and worse documented code behind.. The code runs the turnstiles and ticketing systems for an exhibition center... The nutters put me in charge of developing it from scratch with a hard deadline of 2 months in addition to an already 100% job...
      Soooo there is virtually no docs on the code... the code is littered with test logic.. There are STILL 4 years later pieces of error code that will print messages to the screen to call me on my cell... a number I still use *shudder*

      Why was it left like that? I begged to go back and fix all the shit for a year after it was put in 'production'.. My boss wouldnt let me. Too expensive to document things. My time was better spent doing other things. I hate that my name is on the system... but that is how it goes.

      Worst detail: The whole mess is not a compiled exe.. it all runs in debug mode from visual studio on a machine in a small cabinet..

      That kind of mess is one of the major reasons to leave a job. It will just end up biting you in the ass if you keep working like that, even if it is not your fault it ends up that way. Get out as soon as possible..

    30. Re:Wiki by omglolbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup, building a network of people is awesome.

      Sometimes building relations is more important than money and you get paid in ways that are not immediately obvious.

      If only more people worked that way :D

    31. Re:Wiki by wmelnick · · Score: 2

      As an IT worker I have always documented. As a manager, an internal wiki was always set up by me during week one where one did not already exist. As a CTO that is one of the questions I ask of prospective managers. 15% of any project is given to documenting it. I have left positions where I left on the best of terms and gave tem my cell number with instructions to call if there is anything they need to know. Usually I get 1-2 calls just to clear up something that seemed obvious to me but to an outsider was a bit ambiguous. To me this is SOP - to do otherwise means you are not doing your job.

    32. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Worst detail: The whole mess is not a compiled exe.. it all runs in debug mode from visual studio on a machine in a small cabinet..

      Well, at least it will be easy to debug! :-)

      When I arrived here (2 years ago), that was how they were running our system, from VS. Fortunately, when you are "new guy", you have a little latitude to tie up easy loose ends like this, that is, if your boss is not a douche.

      Documentation, well... is ongoing.

    33. Re:Wiki by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Documentation is part of the job. Are you saying that managers do not give you time to do your job?

      Lack of documentation is a form of technical debt. Many managers are happy to accept technical debt if it means they can meet customer demands in the short term. I bumped into a good analogy on technical debt a few days back. It's short, and highly recommended. On Technical Debt - Now With Chickens!

    34. Re:Wiki by neonmonk · · Score: 1

      Oh boohoo. They gave you a paid holiday. I once gave 3 months notice to a company that was in flux and was escorting out everyone who resigned. Sadly, they did not extend this treatment to me, and I was forced to work out my notice. Give me a paid holiday over not having my feelings hurt any day.

    35. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah brilliant and minimum wage job. not sure i agree.

    36. Re:Wiki by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I hate to say this, but my experience with writing documentation has been very unrewarding. Nobody reads it; you still get the same questions. Inevitably it goes out of date. And almost invariably, whoever comes next has their own way of doing things they want to impose anyways. I wonder if it isn't better to just document the high points (high-level structure, where to find stuff).

      I suppose I will just be told that my documentation must be crap. Ok, I'm here to learn, IF you've got relevant long-term experience and aren't just spouting off.

    37. Re:Wiki by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      Totally agree with this. To make matters worse even if it IS up to date and 100% accurate, there is no way of the reader knowing this, especially several years down the track.

      My experience with wikis at two different jobs was that they are dreadful. Start of with good intentions but end up being so inaccurate and incomplete that they are dangerous to rely on. Not only that in both cases they didn't support cut'n'paste of pictures, which wasted huge amounts of time if you could be bothered to save to a png, resize them, upload and then link them, but often it was easier not to bother.

    38. Re:Wiki by elashish14 · · Score: 2

      I've gotten a lot of technical support emails on my job. Since I'm going to respond to their emails anyways, I take the extra 5 minutes to find a good place for it on our wiki, copy the email text, delete the names and do the little extra wiki markup. I mean, my emails are basically a form of documentation and since it takes very little extra time, I get both jobs done at once. Better yet, it means that if someone asks me the same question later, I can just show them the link and don't have to rewrite the email, so in the long run it saves time. And believe it or not, there are a few good Samaritans out there that will also update the page with their own experiences. So if you're going to support someone, you might as well document it as you go.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    39. Re:Wiki by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2

      Also if you don't help out, and it all goes to shit, it is often your reputation that gets tarnished.

    40. Re:Wiki by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      Try writing the documentation in a text file before you write the code. Lead every line with whatever the comment character is for the language you're working in.

      Then write the actual code in the same file, between the lines of documentation as appropriate. If architecture changes during coding, revise the doco on the fly.

      If somebody changes something, the doc's right there, so they'll change it too. (Unless that person is malicious or grossly incompetent, of course. You can't stop a BOFH, so don't waste time trying.)

      With this system you never lose the docs, and they will never go out of date if the maintenance programmers are even halfway competent.

      If at any point someone actually asks you for docs you look at them blankly and say "it's in the source files, of course. Where else would you look?". If they say "it's company policy that docs should be in the CMS" (or wiki, or moldering file cabinet in the basement) look at them like they are completely insane and tell them you aren't a tech writer. And if your boss insists you write something for the CMS/wiki/moldpile etc. you write the most compact, densely technical mumbo-jumbo possible and then tell everyone involved that you tried real hard to dumb it down enough for non-technical users - since anyone clueful would just look in the sources. If they complain and say to make the docs easier to read, you look helpless and say "but it's already at kindergarten level, I'm not a tech writer! How much simpler could it be?".

      Works like a charm for me!

    41. Re:Wiki by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Paid vacation! How rough is that?

    42. Re:Wiki by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Paid vacation, in exchange for your dignity. Sounds like a fair deal!

    43. Re:Wiki by sqldr · · Score: 1

      That is how you can tell a good IT person from a great IT person. The one who is truly brilliant will sit down and learn his way around everything, he might hate it but he will learn every last wire or line of code before making any improvements of his own.

      Unless you've already got the experience and can spot a bad legacy system a mile off. If you want someone who just keeps the same junk plodding on, wasting people's time and doing things badly, then you want a junior. Get some balls, say "this is wrong", provide a better alternative and fix it. And if the company won't let me, then I won't put up with their junk. Byebye.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    44. Re:Wiki by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree completely. I can't tell you how well little favors have helped me rub elbows with important people that remember me later on.

    45. Re:Wiki by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Unless it is an actual emergency, the more fools they. Documentation debt accrues interest just like the money kind. It also causes problems with goodwill internally, if other people rely on your docs to do things. I hate developers less for their bugs and more because they don't tell me how to monitor it and operate it. I accept that there are bugs. I don't accept that they won't even tell me how to tell if it is working properly or not.

      Make documentation part of every process, or it will never get done. Postpone it only briefly.

    46. Re:Wiki by Moryath · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to say it wasn't unnecessarily rough, but policies on this are often the case for the protection of both parties - once you're out the door and your passwords are changed, then they don't run the risk that you lied on your exit reasons or someone else does something to piss you off during your notice period (thus causing you to do something stupid); AND, if something goes wrong, there's very little chance that you (with access removed) could have done something to cause it.

      It sucks, and they could have been nicer about it (which leads to believe they did indeed have a crappy job atmosphere) but think of it this way: would you REALLY have wanted to keep going in knowing they were going to be like that? I can just see the bullshit now - "system X is down, blame bob, we all know he's leaving."

    47. Re:Wiki by luxifr · · Score: 1

      If you want someone who just keeps the same junk plodding on, wasting people's time and doing things badly, then you want a junior.

      yeah, right... because a junior can't be any good and a senior can't be any bad... what's wrong with you?

      seriously... most seniors I know are mostly busy covering up their ass i.e. making sure they can blame failure on someone else... at least those who went higher up in the hierarchy... but that's the nature of the beast... the higher you get, the more responsibility you have, which you have to spread out on your underlings... if anything goes wrong people will blame you, because you're the head so you better want to have someone else to blame or it's YOUR head that's gonna go because no one wants a failure to manage costly workforce.

      Get some balls, say "this is wrong", provide a better alternative and fix it. And if the company won't let me, then I won't put up with their junk.

      now THAT sounds mature (read "senior") *rolling eyes*

      juniors on the other hand have more to gain and less to loose... THEY will try to get a better alternative, innovate, make progress... to get their selves promoted... so they suggest it to their senior... he'll either scrape their idea or he'll let them pass but on an isolated testing environment but only on top of what he's doing already.... and when the new implementation is finally ready the junior has to hope the senior will give him the credit due instead of taking it for himself...

      tl;dl

      i really hate how people thing years-in-job-time has anything to do with how got someone's doing his job... sure... there's correlation... but correlation != causality... frankly most people don't get that

    48. Re:Wiki by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Yes, I like working up from pseudocode. I like commenting code, including basic javadoc. I think self-documenting code is is good (but doesn't live up to its name), and literate programming (and emacs' DocStrings) are interesting ideas. But I don't think those are what people mean by "system documentation." In other words, I'm extremely skeptical of taking a few days before leaving a job and "documenting everything" in Word or on a Wiki. If it isn't integral to the code and integral to the work process, then it will only happen if it's somebody's job, and will only be useful if it's really needed (e.g. big commercial products that are targeted at developers).

    49. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably wasn't rough, but the extra paycheck probably did nothing to smooth over the bad feelings.

    50. Re:Wiki by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 1

      Not critizing, just interested: Had this happened to other employees in the past, or were you the only one you knew of? Had your previous IT Admin had the same treatment? Generally employers don't have different policies for different people leaving the company.

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    51. Re:Wiki by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I have been at my current job for almost 3 years and within a few weeks of starting I began to build and maintain an online repository for every project we were involved in, as well as specifications, drawings, artwork and the like. When I started all project info was in three or four scattered file cabinets, email archives and between the ears of my boss. I have also spend a good portion of my time making sure the different departments know it exists so if there arises a situation where I'm not there they can find something.

      It's unrealistic to expect the new person, no matter how good they are, to be a plug and play in a knowledge-based role. But giving the new person somewhere to access information and get up to speed is all you can do.

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    52. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds like an opportunity. When you get a call related to those systems, explain your very generous $1,000/hour consulting rate. :)

    53. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally agree with this. To make matters worse even if it IS up to date and 100% accurate, there is no way of the reader knowing this, especially several years down the track.

      Oh, that's easy. Just write "This documentation *is* up to date." on the last line of the doc.

    54. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is the difference between academia and private industry. In academia, they don't always treat your move as a threat. In private industry, your intent to move is an indication they can't trust you. In addition, in private industry they can always get someone to replace you in name, if not in reality.

    55. Re:Wiki by anyGould · · Score: 1

      At the barest minimum, a bit of comment telling you what the hell each bit of code is supposed to be doing would be nice.

      Yes, I am looking at a five-year-old macro that looks like Cthulhu wrote it, with absolutely nothing hinting at what it does - how did you know?

    56. Re:Wiki by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Sounds great, most managers refuse to allot time for IT to do this. do you give them 4-8 hours a week to get documentation proper?

      The easiest way is to stick the time somewhere else.

      First, if you're doing something like setting up a new switch or other basic piece of equipment, you add the hour or two of documentation to the installation time - it's part of the time to do installation, after all.

      If it's a more complex machine like a server, it adds to the installation. If you want, document everything - what you installed on it, where it was installed, what ports it's listening on, copies of the config file, etc. It's part of the install. With Windows it's easy as there's long down periods between periods of activity - perfect for working on the docs.

      Documenting existing systems will have to come out of somewhere, but make sure you add documentation time to all new projects going forward - the old stuff may be undocumented still, but doesn't mean the new stuff should be as well.

      And if your manager asks why it takes you an hour longer, say you're doing it right and employing best practices.

      Also, don't document post-setup and installation, document while installing. Yeah it breaks the routine of "clicky clicky clicky" and "sudo sudo sudo" but it's a lot easier to document that way.

    57. Re:Wiki by Politburo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Generally employers don't have different policies for different people leaving the company."

      Bullshit they don't. You think the CEO gets escorted out by security?

    58. Re:Wiki by Kjella · · Score: 1

      If that was true, great IT people wouldn't get anything done. Many old legacy systems are written in an archaic language with little to no documentation, zero support and have grown like a cancer bolting on one piece of functionality after another without structure or consistency, with plenty of code that's there for tasks it doesn't do or ways to work you don't use anymore. If you went tangling into that mess, you'd probably come out as a COBOL or Java 1.0 guru in a decade or so rather than an expert on current systems. Great people just tend to make sure they have the surface area covered, what systems does it speak with? Who are the users? Because that's what usually gets the rash ones, it's "I didn't know it was doing that" not small implementation details of what it does do.

      Once you've made sure you have know all the involved ones, then I'd much rather try getting functional requirements. What is the system providing you today? Is it the way you want it to be? Replacing legacy crap with modern code functioning as legacy crap is stupid. Most likely you will find you can do this simpler and better and more suited to the business needs, needs that have been ignore because there would be nobody to work on the legacy system. Probably new needs that they were told were impossible with the old system. Code can not tell you all of this. Okay ideally you'd know both those and all the code, but you'd probably be an old man by then. Make sure you have all the major things covered and just realize to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    59. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with DrgnDancer. Since you are switching positions but not switching employers you will likely be expected to help through the transition period and beyond. So just get used to it and don't be difficult about it. When the new guy has questions answer them as clearly and concisely as possible so as not to warrant a follow up conversation and move on with your day.

      Now on the flip side if you are switching employers, I would (and am currently on) a contractual arrangement with "oldjob" while I am working for "newjob". This is actually the second time that I have done this sort of agreement while transitioning between jobs. The contract basically says.

      1) My full-time "newjob" is my first priority, so while I might take calls during the day, if they need me to actually _do_ anything that might need to wait until the next day or after hours.
      2) Option hours, my "oldjob" pays me option hours, currently I have 10 option hours per week, "oldjob" can choose to exercise them or not, regardless I get paid. As far as flexibility goes, I have to be able to provide them 10 hours a week, although I have no requirements as to when. So I plan on 2 hours a weekday, and if something comes up I can make it up on the weekend. Although I don't _have_ to work 10 hours for them every week, only if they need me.
      3) Term, my term is 3 months + 3 month option to renew at the "oldjob" discretion. In my current situation I am about to be renewed for the second 3 months.
      4) Notice, when originally setting this up "oldjob" wanted me to give 30 days notice if I was going to move on (or separate from the contract early), but wanted to be able to terminate me at any time. This is the type of slanted language you need to watch for. If they want to terminate at any time then you should get the same rights. We mutually agreed on 14 calendar days.


      So bottom line if you are switching employers you should be willing to help out your replacement and prior company, but you are under no obligation to perform any work once you are no longer in their employ. They need to understand this, as do you. But since technically you are still in there employment with a "transfer" I think you should just get used to being a happy helper...

    60. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup.

      It's amazing how often something comes up and you think "hey, I used to work with a guy who practically wrote the book on that.. and I think he owes me a favor".

      At the very minimum, everyone you keep in touch with/on good terms with is someone who might someday let you know about an upcoming job / recommend you to someone else. I'll admit this has only happened to me personally once but several people I've worked with were recommended by other people who knew them from a previous job. In my case I didn't take the job (was happy in my position at the time) but it's still a really awesome feeling for someone to call _you_ asking if you'd be interested in working for them where a huge chunk of more experienced people out there are struggling to even get an interview. Reputation still means something!

    61. Re:Wiki by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

      I agree with the OP, three words - documentation, documentation, documentation. That is the only way you are going to save yourself from continuous questions - being able to refer the replacement to the documents you wrote outlining everything there is to know about the system. Then, and only then, will you be able to claim that any future problems are the result of your replacement's stupidity - otherwise, it will be lack of due diligence on your part (and I say this from years of experience in blaming previous administrators for every undocumented little quirk of every system that breaks under my watch).

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    62. Re:Wiki by RJFerret · · Score: 1

      True, but better late than never. Start the wiki, the new hire will be able to continue/expand on it during the learning process, when the most relevant info will be discovered. Next new hire won't need such hand-holding assuming the wiki is maintained over time.

    63. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My boss loves technical debt, he's on his way out thank god. But, yea, it's insane dealing with someone who will - with a smile on their face, run your technical debt up for 300-400% ratios every time you talk to them. Worse if they cover their debt with bullshit.

    64. Re:Wiki by flonker · · Score: 1

      Blame bob, we all know he's retiring in five years/three years/one year/six months/two months/two weeks/...

    65. Re:Wiki by xSauronx · · Score: 1

      Im not in such a bad, or odd position, but I will say that getting time to document really isnt always on the to-do list at places. I was a work study student for a small community college (2000 students, 900 pcs, several server) and the admin had almost zero documentation because he never had time to do it between managing accounts, server and telephone issues.

      Then i interned at a large health system. Some stuff is relatively well documented, some stuff has a little to go on, some stuff has zero and you cant even find who worked on it last. They are asked to document things, but they arent always allotted time.

      I work for an IT consulting company now who services over 200 customers in eastern north carolina. In a given day I might go to 4 different customer sites. I try to document while Im on site, but then I have to clean that up, put it in the notes/visio that the company uses because another tech might go to that site in the very near future, and get that uploaded to the office so someone can get it.

      It's tough, and while the techs generally do a good job of it, stuff gets missed because we NEVER get administrative time scheduled to do documentation.

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    66. Re:Wiki by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      Worst detail: The whole mess is not a compiled exe.. it all runs in debug mode from visual studio on a machine in a small cabinet.

      down in the cellar, in the display department, you need to take a torch, the lights are out, so are the stairs. The code is there, in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory behind a door that said "Beware of the tiger".

    67. Re:Wiki by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      $90/hour? multiply that by 5 and add 3000 flat just to start.

    68. Re:Wiki by serialband · · Score: 1

      Where I've previously worked at a public university, I found the opposite to be true. We had plenty of time to document, but I was the main guy doing it. Unfortunately, some employees are assholes that believe in "Job Security" by not documenting. I had been trying to get coworkers to document and trying to get my manager on everyone to document, but he was a wuss of a manager. I had been doing the bulk of the work and would frequently get delayed when I ran into the undocumented items caused by the slackers who didn't even show up to work. If the ex-manager had any guts, he'd document those failures on the performance reviews and force those assholes out.

      Fortunately, I left that vile environment, but, unfortunately, those waste of space lifers are still there sucking up public tax money.

    69. Re:Wiki by chromeronin · · Score: 1

      Just a couple of points, if the admin has to ask here what to do, there is something wrong. Also, if your documentation of the system and password repository are not up to scratch, then one day handover will NOT BE ENOUGH, EVER.

    70. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mostly agree with this post. The way I handled moving on in a similar situation is by scheduling myself for 50% assisting my replacement, and 50% at the new job for about 2 weeks. In this way, I was able to properly train the new person, and have plenty of time for the first 2 weeks to assist him. I ended up doing 90% new job, and only 10% training, but the new hire was very happy he had access to me as much as he needed as he transitioned to the role I had. If you can work that out, it's the best way to go, as the end users won't even realize a transition was made.

    71. Re:Wiki by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      That is how you can tell a good IT person from a great IT person. The one who is truly brilliant will sit down and learn his way around everything, he might hate it but he will learn every last wire or line of code before making any improvements of his own.

      Unless you've already got the experience and can spot a bad legacy system a mile off. If you want someone who just keeps the same junk plodding on, wasting people's time and doing things badly, then you want a junior. Get some balls, say "this is wrong", provide a better alternative AND AN ROI THAT JUSTIFIES IT and fix it. And if the company won't let me, then I won't put up with their junk. Byebye.

      There, fixed it for ya. If you don't understand that part in bolded caps, you are not in a position to tell people how to fix things and how to do their work.

    72. Re:Wiki by bolthole · · Score: 1

      You fail basic sysadmin paranoia testing.

      When working as a sysadmin (or heck, even a regular coder in some places)
      ALWAYS write ALL your code/scripts/blah that could POSSIBLY run in a production setting, as though they already are.
      Because someday, they will be.
      Always presume there will be no "I'll go back and fix it later".

      Did you learn this yet? The problem was not the job, it was you. (yes, the job had problems, but you should never have implemented that junk like that)
      There's probably one o them there named internet rules about this, but i'm old, so i ferget thangs.

    73. Re:Wiki by sqldr · · Score: 1

      yeah, right... because a junior can't be any good and a senior can't be any bad... what's wrong with you?

      I was referring to ability, not age or time in service. Please don't ever become a manager.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    74. Re:Wiki by bolthole · · Score: 4, Insightful

      stuff gets missed because we NEVER get administrative time scheduled to do documentation.

      /* Note: This is an article to demonstrate in practical terms, how to improve lack of documentation */

      The way you "fix" this problem, is to make documentation part of the work. Dont write code, before you have first written the spec for it. Even if it's "inline" documentation, it sure beats zero documentation.

    75. Re:Wiki by sqldr · · Score: 1

      There, fixed it for ya. If you don't understand that part in bolded caps, you are not in a position to tell people how to fix things and how to do their work.

      No, I just do it and inform the boss via a sticky note at 6pm on a friday :P Well duh.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    76. Re:Wiki by dgharmon · · Score: 1

      "Build an internal Wiki"

      Good idea ..

      "you can 't cover everything in a one day training session. I'd make that two half days with a month or so in between".

      Did you leave a smiley off that statement?

      --
      AccountKiller
    77. Re:Wiki by luxifr · · Score: 1

      I was referring to ability, not age or time in service. Please don't ever become a manager.

      Fair enough... thank you for pointing out I jumped to a conclusion from my experience! (no sarcasm)... And excuse me for attacking you like that... It surely didn't help my point but still this point holds up...

      But still: Sadly most managers (let alone HR people!) tend to link age to ability... the other thing they look at when trying to judge the ability of a would-be-employee are certificates and the like (even though everybody knows that all of the most common and asked certifications can either be acquired relatively easily or outright bought for some amount of money)... more often than not this is enough to not be considered to be interviewed...

      and so practically "junior" and "senior" are defined by age and certifications... if your CV doesn't look "senior" you'll hardly get a chance to prove that you are...

    78. Re:Wiki by sensationull · · Score: 2

      Depends on if they need help lugging out their big bags of money I guess.

    79. Re:Wiki by frisket · · Score: 1

      Totally agree with this. To make matters worse even if it IS up to date and 100% accurate, there is no way of the reader knowing this, especially several years down the track.

      Balls. If you're using any half-way decent documentation system then there are places to record timestamps. Accuracy is something else, but timestamping changes is standard practice.

    80. Re:Wiki by frisket · · Score: 1

      It's amazing how often something comes up and you think "hey, I used to work with a guy who practically wrote the book on that.. and I think he owes me a favor".

      It's a judgment call. If you worked for a complete bunch of losers who aren't worth a cent, then charge them top dollar. If you worked for a nice crowd, many of whom will remain friends or colleagues-in-the-field for years, then cut them some slack.

    81. Re:Wiki by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Just be glad it's not a grue!

    82. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is very true - documentation is scarcely read, assuming that somebody actually knows it exists.

      Having a living and understood documentation requires to have people using it on a daily basis. In other words, your replacement should be someone that has worked with it and with you for some time. Depending on the complexity of your systems and procedures, your 'apprentice' will have to work with you for some weeks to some months.

      So far, I have had to transmit duties and know-how three times. I always did it to people who had worked with me enough to make sure that they had at least followed every procedure at least once, and knew the proper tools, documents, along with the procedure I used to maintain them. Even so, I had to come back once to them (through mail or, eventually, physically) to handle one 'big' situation.

      "Irreplaceable people fill graveyards" (french proverb - expected, at least)

      Most of times, this situation was exactly what I anticipated and explained just before leaving ; everything was documented, procedures where responding to needs, and the main problem was already understood by the new responsible (as we already discussed the matter enough before).
      The real matter was for them to accept that nobody would handle the problem in their place, and that they had to bug themselves a little to have it working.

      In such a case, you may (and, in my view, should, if situation fits) do a last 'gracious' intervention, as long as you make sure that the man does it all by himself (you are there only as a graceful backup), and telling him after that he succeeded by himself, so there is no use to call you again (doing so would prove his incompetence and lack of maturity - no one likes that).
      I never got called a second time, and things went smoothly enough afterwards so I never had to be ashamed of it - rather the opposite, by the way.

      Advantages I took in doing so were the following:
      - if you facilitate the transition by spending one extra free day (I mean, not charging it) you leave a good memento of youself to both your former boss and former apprentice (Good memories of you are never bad, bad memories of you scarcely do any good).
      - once you let the apprentice understand that he is able to handle the problem, you build his confidence. He will not afford calling you again, because it would destroy his confidence and self image.
      - you will have earned his loyalty to a certain level (you may hire him someday in the future, you know).
      - if your apprentice is a complete dumbass, it will be an opportunity for you to make an 'extra' mission with upper wages, and therefore claim higher wages on your next jobs.

      On the operative level, do the basics:
      1 - checklists (never leave anyone without a checklist)
      2 - procedures (the main ones - people do not need any procedure to go to pee)
      3 - how-to's (when applicable and pertinent - people scarcley need how-to's to pee)
      4 - worst case scenarii (when anticipated and realistic - delusion is of no use)
      5 - and a global document that will summarize global aims, philosophy, methodology (if you have time enough to detail it).

      (1) checlists will be lifesavers.
      (2) procedures will be competence builders as well as lifesavers (but less than checklists)
      (3) how-to's will be craft and know-how building for your apprentice and his team (it will be the point where he will be thankfull to you over a decade)
      (4) that's if you don't want your former boss to bleed on petty things (will also help your apprentice to build his competence)
      (5) ultimate point; Will make of you a legend of it's own it your apprentice's apprentice ever reads it (and is not a dumbass). Might completely change your future by unveiling opportunities even ten years after. (Remind of 'good memories' - small fee, great opportunities). Actually happened to me.

      If you have only one day to t

    83. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes and no. imagine you walked into an organization with a completely misconfigured setup, with many legacy systems. imagine it got that way as a result of years of piecemeal additions, hacked together in response to whatever was the crisis of the day. oh and no documentation, either.
      what is the benefit of digging through that mess, when you know you could streamline and consolidate by starting fresh? networks don't always scale gracefully; taking a step back to redesign is a huge boon to support staff if done completely. unfortunately, most organizations just dont have the money to spend on that sort of effort.

    84. Re:Wiki by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Bullshit they don't. You think the CEO gets escorted out by security?

      Mine was.

    85. Re:Wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of my favorite comments in code was mid-80's in a VMS FORTRAN program. I believe it was ARGUS. I presume it had been modified by many folks at different universities.

      C
      C Don't be misled by the comments. Debug only code.
      C

    86. Re:Wiki by Flere+Imsaho · · Score: 1

      Haha, bus error - nice one :-)

      --
      It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
    87. Re:Wiki by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the Knuth/Wikipedia link! I share your skepticism.

    88. Re:Wiki by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      The problem was not the job, it was you. (yes, the job had problems, but you should never have implemented that junk like that) There's probably one o them there named internet rules about this, but i'm old, so i ferget thangs.

      That's a little harsh. A boss (or more likely a company culture) that puts a prototype into production and balks at the idea of documenting it isn't going to fancy the idea of documenting the q&d project they had to do up real quick-like in the first place. It was probably built to use as a demo to get a sale or internal approval or whatever.

      That sort of scenario isn't good when a deadline rolls around, and you have half the system done and half the documentation done. You try explaining the importance of maintainability and you're gonna get something in between a "talkin' to" and a "you're fired" for your trouble.

      I agree that your approach would be best when possible, I always tried to do it that way. But far too often it isn't. The world, of which work is a subset, is a far from perfect place.

      But never, never put your own phone number in any code. Especially an error message. That honor goes to the first manager who tells you something along the lines of: "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    89. Re:Wiki by lizrd · · Score: 1

      Sometimes they escape before security gets there: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/wanted/razmilov.htm

      --
      I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
    90. Re:Wiki by unencode200x · · Score: 1

      Do tell.

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
    91. Re:Wiki by company+suckup · · Score: 0

      No but I've known COOs who get frog-walked out of a hospital because they didn't cook the books enough for the CEO.

    92. Re:Wiki by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I think it happened to him at a later company as well.
      The short story was that he was brought in to "downsize" the company and instead tried to set up a branch of the non-US company in Silicon Valley and move there. I'd say it was to pad his resume. The board wasn't happy and 7/8 of the workforce got laid off from the CEO down. The CEO was escorted out, others were just told to pack up and leave, I was merely locked out and didn't find out what was going on until I'd found my way in and spent two hours working at my desk.
      Another CEO I worked for was even worse. Two of the companies he'd worked for didn't exist after he'd finished with them and he went on to be in charge of electricity distribution in New Zealand, where he decided to cut maintaince costs dramaticly. I think the city of Auckland was blacked out for five weeks as a consequence.

    93. Re:Wiki by dontclapthrowmoney · · Score: 1

      if your CV doesn't look "senior" you'll hardly get a chance to prove that you are...

      I agree with you, up to a point. I remain hopeful that true talent always shines through (I'll concede some more by adding "eventually")

      There are two kinds of IT people - either people have that certain something that is hard to define; the skill to intuit facts from a new system they've never seen before, to take two pieces of information that seem unconnected and combine them to come up with solutions to a problem. Those people are rare.

      The other kind of person is the type who you just know right from the beginning, are going to peak at the sys admin level - they'll do their 5+ years in desktop/senior desktop support and eventually get to the point where they can handle "next -> next -> finish" server admin work. And by the time they get to that point they'll have such a sense of entitlement they will never be easy to work with when approached by less experienced people who need a hand. And they'll absolutely resent any of the Type 1 people who didn't spend anywhere near as long stuck on the helpdesk answering phones and working a crappy roster, just because they happen to have more talent.

      I apologise for using such skewed stereotypes to explain my point. I currently work as a reasonably well paid contractor in a government department, surrounded by resentment-filled, lower paid people who don't know how much they don't know, where the phrase "governmentality" fits nicely. So I'm a little jaded. Plus I've been drinking :)

    94. Re:Wiki by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      From my experience managing 20+ year old systems, whatever documentation that did exist will be lost, whatever isn't lost is so outdated to be useless (like one ER diagram from 1992, that is meaningless from all the changes), whoever designed the system will be gone, retired, was a vendor no one remembers, or wants nothing to do with the system and claims amnesia.

      I have gotten pretty good at basically reverse engineering stuff, and I usually document some things for my own benefit. But good luck to the next guy. Realistically it is not really viable to take anyone's job that they have been doing and figuring out for years, and learn it in a day or two. Ideally they would have some job shadowing for weeks/months before the transition, but all managers are too short sighted for that or too cheap, or have too many pressured to allow for it. In any case I nor anyone else should not be expected to make as part of their job a replacement manual. Whoever replaces someone is going to spend several months/years trying to figure everything out. Which really should be the incentive to try and keep experienced staff, because, you know, they already have experience.

    95. Re:Wiki by bolthole · · Score: 1

      I think you misunderstand.
      There is "Documentation" and there is "documentation".

      There may well not be time for "Documentation: reams of output targetted for handholding CluelessUser"

      But there is *ALWAYS* time for
      "documentation: a quickie note to describe WTH you are doing on this bit".

      The most valuable CS teacher I ever had, put it something like this: If you dont have time to put in even BASIC comments in your code... the problem is not that you "dont have time", is that you are an incompetant typist. Go away, and come back after you've learned to type at a decent speed.

    96. Re:Wiki by bolthole · · Score: 1

      PS: forgot to mention; there's perfect, and there's good. and there's "cluess first year CS student".

      there may not be time for "perfect". but there's no excuse for a professional (sysadmin/coder) to write code like a n00b. Ever.
      If they do, then they are simply not a professional.

      yes, sadly, there are too many non-professionals writing code, and scripts. The best path out of that hole, though, is for them to take the first step of saying, "I'm not going to do that any more", and then go learn how to do it right.

      see: http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/ksh-sampleprog.html

      for examples of different levels of professionalism, for the same task.

    97. Re:Wiki by unencode200x · · Score: 1

      OMG man, that's epic!

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
  2. Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You are not as important as you think you are. Just leave. They will figure it out. Worked for me.

    1. Re:Just Leave by Cryacin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ah, the old "Screw you morons, I quit" tactic.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't see any presumption of importance in there, just that there is a lot of information to cover.

      My institution had the same issues, One of the reasons we make sure EVERYONE has a trained backup. In cases like this, the trained backup can handle the training and questions of the new guy when the old guy is gone.

    3. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Basically the same as "screw your mortgage and family moron, you are fired".

    4. Re:Just Leave by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Yes, but not every employer will do that, and (in my experience) most will only do that if you give them a good reason, or they have no viable alternative.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    5. Re:Just Leave by Splab · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep.

      If you really are that important, have them contract the work to you.

      And to siblings, it's not about saying screw you guys - it's a job, it's not your life, they will dump you the second you are redundant.

      Stay in touch with your workmates if you liked them enough, but the second you are off the clock, it's someone elses problem.

    6. Re:Just Leave by justforgetme · · Score: 2

      Also known in the computer industry as the hit by Bus factor. Never let someone leave the office
      without having at least one person being able to take over his responsibilities.

      --
      -- no sig today
    7. Re:Just Leave by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That tactic is too common, and leaves people thinking you're an idiot because they get no chance to find out _why_ you did things certain ways. This role is in the same university: you do _not_ want to leave enemies behind in your old workgroup. Unless some other political issue is driving you out, plan a much longer hand-off period. Unless there's other staff that can fill him in on common practices after beginning, you should schedule time every day, then every week, then occasional emails to touch base. Have lunch with him and a notebook occasionally in the first month. Just be careful not to become a crutch.

      The server admins and the networking group should remain on friendly terms: you're going to need favors from each other in the future, and keeping things helpful will help the server team grant those favors gracefully. It'll also let them know that when you say yes, it's as a colleague who wants everything to work, and when you say no, it's not personal.

    8. Re:Just Leave by curious.corn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hats off. These days it's rather difficult to find reasonable, competent and professional people in the field; therefore I won't pass this occasion for a well deserved praise.
      Definitely good advice, there would be so much more unnecessary stress and emotion if this attitude was more widespread.

      --
      Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
    9. Re:Just Leave by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

      yes, but prior to being off the clock, you can work to make it easier on them, once you are off the clock. Not everyone will dump you when you are redundant, especially if they make a point of keeping backups in positions, as another user mentioned. Even in the places where you are still too redundant, many employers will try to reshuffle you to other positions you can fill. Not all employers are cold, heartless bastards.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    10. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or when your company is bought out and new CEO claims he will fire 25% of all employees.
      Screw him...

    11. Re:Just Leave by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sorry dave, but the CEO really wants another Yacht and we cant afford to keep you. Yes we know that you do 12 jobs and are critical to our operation, but we are going to hire some kid right out of college for $28,900 and save a shitload of money and abuse the snot nosed brat by making him work 120 hours a week with only 40 hours of pay. You are just too old for us to screw like that anymore.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    12. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you find yourself in a position where you are redundant and you haven't been let-go, it's time to find another job anyway - not firing redundant people is a terribly inefficient business practice and they will be tanking soon anyway.

    13. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would agree,

      However, he's not leaving by the looks of it... hes moving to another job within the same establishment, so there will have to be some form of handover.

    14. Re:Just Leave by JATMON · · Score: 1

      You are not as important as you think you are. Just leave. They will figure it out. Worked for me.

      Back in 2001, I worked for a company where I build a system that outputted a report that went to all the management up to the VP of the company. I was the only one that had access to the server and I had all the passwords. A couple weeks after they laid me off, the VP stopped getting his report and no I did not cause it to break :). When he asked my old manager about not getting his report, my manager had to explain to him that they only person who knew anything about the system and had all the password was laid off. They actually had the nerve to call me and ask if I would give them the passwords and help them fix it. I laughed and told them I would for $1000/hr. They never got the system working again.

    15. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not every employer. But the MAJORITY of employers will. Especially if they can save a dollar doing it.

    16. Re:Just Leave by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      and (in my experience) most will only do that if you give them a good reason, or they have no viable alternative.

      Hmmm.

      I don't mean to disparage your experience, but I should mention that when you have a lot of it, you will find a few asswipes amongst your list of employers.

      I have had some bosses with whom I might almost have worked for free, while on the other hand I have had recent experience of another boss who has been personally responsible for a 250% turnover of staff (including myself) in the 11 months I was at that workplace. I consider myself fortunate (and nearly unique) to have survived my notice period without some pretext having been found (or manufactured) to precipitate my being sacked.

    17. Re:Just Leave by bhsurfer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're not replaceable then you're not promotable. I *want* people to be able to do what I do so that I have the option of doing something else.

      --
      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
      Groucho Marx
    18. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all employers are cold, heartless bastards.

      Just most of them in the modern economy

    19. Re:Just Leave by Splab · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, I've never just walked out - I've always done my best to help them transition, even when they did not deserve it; burned bridges tend to stay burned.

      However, once I walk out that door, I'm out - if they didn't plan for enough time to hand over my work, it's their problem. One point of note, we have at least one month notice on any job position held for more than 3 months (by law - Denmark).

    20. Re:Just Leave by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      More sane people please! :D

    21. Re:Just Leave by greenlead · · Score: 2

      If I had mod points, I'd give you some. So many otherwise intelligent people build a castle around their job, daring others to try to do it. The position themselves so that they are the go-to guy for the job, and create misery for themselves in the process as they can never get a day off and they're consumed by the additional stress.

    22. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you failed to document a critical business system, provide an emergency access plan to your manager, and were the only person who knew anything about it?

      Now I see why you made the short list for layoffs. But good going, burning bridges like that. Makes it easier for the professionals to find new jobs when they want one.

    23. Re:Just Leave by operagost · · Score: 2

      I would have given them a more reasonable, but still lucrative rate (Like $150/hr) and done it. I would have felt just as satisfied putting their money in my bank account as I would have in picturing them laboring for hours to recreate the system. I would have also worried about them doing something foolish, but damaging nonetheless, like suing me. After all, they could have claimed you put a dead man's switch in the code or something.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    24. Re:Just Leave by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      yeah, but you can't blame the people that are there, now, for that.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    25. Re:Just Leave by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2

      The problem is that the ones that screw people over are often the ones that succeed because they burn up the goodwill of the people in the company, get results, and then move on before it all turns pear-shaped.

    26. Re:Just Leave by JATMON · · Score: 1

      I would have given them a more reasonable, but still lucrative rate (Like $150/hr) and done it. I would have felt just as satisfied putting their money in my bank account as I would have in picturing them laboring for hours to recreate the system. I would have also worried about them doing something foolish, but damaging nonetheless, like suing me. After all, they could have claimed you put a dead man's switch in the code or something.

      I was not in a charitable mood. There were no warnings to the lay-offs. They actually called me on my day off and told me over the phone that I was laid off and that I needed to report to HR in the morning. My account was disabled before they called me. During the outprocessing the lady from HR actually had the nerve to ask me how I had liked working for the company and she was actaully shocked when I would not say anything nice. As for being sued, it never even crossed my mind. I know that I did not do anything to the system to cause the problem. Actually, thinking back on it, I wish that they would have tried to sue me. They would have definitely lost and I could have then counter sued for defamation of character.

    27. Re:Just Leave by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Ah, the old "Screw you morons, I quit" tactic.

      I would call it the "Kick them out of the nest and force them to fly" or "Motivate my replacement to learn" tactic. Coddle them too much and they will become dependent.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    28. Re:Just Leave by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      When working for a managed service provider IT company, maintaining a professional attitude is a must. And while there is job security (multiple clients and all), it's also extremely difficult and stressful. Not because we have to keep one network in our head, but about 30+ (network, servers, workstations...ect)!!! We keep everything documented to the best of our ability, and we are staffed accordingly to make it all work. Sure, we have our "regular" clients that we each maintain, but we can pass off a client to another one of our co-workers if needed. There are of course pros and cons with regards to in-house IT vs outsourced support. Overall though, it's extremely important to be professional and work with other in-house IT departments on an as needed basis. Sometimes they just need to offload some work or need help with a migration project. In the end, we hope those people will pass on our name within the industry.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    29. Re:Just Leave by kylearin · · Score: 1

      Andy?

    30. Re:Just Leave by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a Jeffrey Dahmer kind of thing.

      "Just kill her, no one will miss her. Worked for me."

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    31. Re:Just Leave by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      You were raped as a child, weren't you?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    32. Re:Just Leave by anyGould · · Score: 1

      However, once I walk out that door, I'm out - if they didn't plan for enough time to hand over my work, it's their problem.

      +1 Obvious

      If you are working for free, you are not only devaluing yourself, you're effectively subsidizing the company (because they're not paying someone to do work you're willing to do for free).

      Obviously there are cases where you will (you like your coworker/old boss, you owe them a favor, it's so trivial that it's more work to argue rates than to just do it, you're angling to get back in the company), but keep in mind the likeliness of your old company doing *you* a favor in return.

    33. Re:Just Leave by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      The flip side is that if you aren't replaceable, they can't easily fire you. Job security is nice too. However i like to get my job security from the fact that they probably could replace me, but they really don't want to.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    34. Re:Just Leave by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      Or they decide they need to trim head count and eliminate jobs. I saw an IT department take a 20% cut in one day. One by one people were called into their manager's office and told their job had been eliminated. Then escorted to their desk to clean it out and out the door. Every one had over a decade of service with the company and worked unpaid overtime whenever it was needed to solve a production problem. I was one of them, and when I got an email a week later asking how to fix something, I told them that they determined that my skills were redundant and no longer wished to pay my salary, so they didn't need my help to fix the problem.

      Since then the company has laid off most of the rest of the IT staff, they have retained only minimal operations and support staff. They have also closed most of their manufacturing plants in the US and moved production to China. So I tend to believe executive management considered ROI more important than employees. It is amusing though that as they focused on 'stockholder value' and eliminated a third of their workforce their sales have dropped 20%.

      I would have made a similar statement to your before this happened. Since then I have worked for a company that would lay off developers because their skills didn't match a management change of direction. They knew perl and the business wanted to do new projects in PHP, so lay off and hire someone new with the new skillset. And another that based IT head count on some mysterious number they came up with for how much they wanted to spend, not based on the amount of work they wanted accomplished. There was always pressure to work unpaid overtime.

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    35. Re:Just Leave by justforgetme · · Score: 3, Informative

      I, inadvertently, experienced this "job security" once. It wasn't an experience I want to relive. It's much better to earn job security by being an outstanding contributor rather than by being the keeper of keys.

      --
      -- no sig today
    36. Re:Just Leave by celle · · Score: 1

      "I worked for a company where I build a system that outputted a report that went to all the management up to the VP of the company. I was the only one that had access to the server and I had all the passwords. A couple weeks after they laid me off, ...They actually had the nerve to call me and ask if I would give them the passwords and help them fix it. I laughed and told them I would for $1000/hr. They never got the system working again."

      ""But good going, burning bridges like that. Makes it easier for the professionals to find new jobs when they want one.""

          Sounds like the company burned the bridge. They hung themselves by not requiring documentation and keeping support. Then being to cheap to correct their mistake. Besides, I wouldn't want a recommendation from a company like that as the next would probably be the same.

    37. Re:Just Leave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the bit where you have to put everything you know about maintaining anything in a flat text file without formatting for "quick reference." So a high school student can read it, you know.

      Burning bridges is just like getting fired - it reflects just the same on you as the company that threatens to fire you "at will." Fark 'em if they can't take it.

    38. Re:Just Leave by dirtykid · · Score: 1

      I am very surprised you have not been escorted out... My IT jobs have had training as follows: This is the server room. This is the password. This is the network policy manual. Good luck!

      I was once asked to 'show somebody else how the network functioned' ... for two weeks... I got this immediate bad feeling about it. That company had doubled in size, revenue, users, and equipment during the three years I had been there and I was alone and completely overwhelmed. I tried to shrug it off as 'somebody had hired me an assistant', but I was walked out the door 2 weeks later. The IT department was outsourced to 'a company' that (as it turns out) would fix everything by appearing once or twice a month... Thankfully, those 2 weeks were not any less busy in those 2 weeks, so the training I gave ended up being: "This is the server room. This is the password. This is the network policy manual. Good luck!" and that was 2 weeks worth...

      You can't hope to cover everything in a single day even with the most experienced server admin... And if there is 'LUSER' support tied into it, shake hands, hand over the keys and passwords, and run away, screaming if you can muster it...

    39. Re:Just Leave by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Or when your company only makes $1.0B in profits that year, unlike the year before when they made $1.4B in profits.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    40. Re:Just Leave by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Many, many times.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    41. Re:Just Leave by davewoods · · Score: 1

      My job is like this :\
      But not by my doing. I am the sole employee in the IT department, I wear so many hats it gives me a headache sometimes.
      As a result, I can only take one day off at a time MAX, and even then, I more or less need to have my phone with me in case something breaks. We only have 50 employees, so not enough to justify an assistant, but too many for me to take a real vacation.

    42. Re:Just Leave by mindcandy · · Score: 1

      Unless you're also planning to move across the country, chances are that somebody at $new_job will know somebody at $old_job and will informally call up during the interview/hiring process and ask "hey, what happend to Joe?".

      Now, you'll never hear about that happening, you'll just get a form-letter "we found a more qualified candidate" from HR.

      Don't burn bridges, even in they deserve it.

  3. Already covered at length on Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here, here and here. :-)

  4. Have him/her sign off after your training by KnightMB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Be fair of course in how you word it, but nothing speaks better than "I showed the new Admin X,Y,Z and he knows how to do X,Y,Z; here the signature to prove it". I know you are trying to avoid a new Admin coming in and then complaining about how the previous guy didn't know what the hell he was doing. Happens to everyone I'm afraid, but at least have your bases covered for what any replacement needs to know to operate in your permanent absence. It will also discourage the new admin from making any drama scenes with his/her new boss when he/she knows you have something in writing that is suppose to demonstrate/validate his/her new skills in the position. Other than that, don't burn any bridges, try to be helpful to the new Admin, when you have the free time, but don't go out your way and sacrifice your new job to help a struggling admin who might be in over his head due to fluffing up the resume.

    1. Re:Have him/her sign off after your training by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't know about you, but if I was the new worker and at the end of the day you came to me with a paper for me to sign saying I now know everything my first reaction would be "WTF?" and the second "No way." I have no idea how much you forgot to tell me, even if it says "managing the $foo server" you may have forgotten to tell me about some job or routine or process related to that. In fact, it'd probably be the start of a drama scene with the new boss as I go to him to talk about it.

      If you get called, you'll quickly figure out if it's (1) help me do my job, (2) I couldn't be arsed to read the documentation or (3) something genuinely non-obvious. Dismiss (1)s, even if you do remember (2)s point them to the docs instead and answer (3)s. At least so far I'd say 100% of my past employers have asked for a few minutes of my time and 0% have abused the privilege. Just stick to answering how it was but you can't say what direction to take going forwards anymore and it'll be over quickly and friendly.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Have him/her sign off after your training by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Sign off on a password exchange. Get management or even the CxO involved. Validate the account exchange and have multiple witnesses (they don't all need to know the new password of course) and have multiple signatures on the hand-off document.

      Have I ever done this before? Nope. But that's about the gist of how I might proceed if placed in a similar circumstance. Comments and critique are welcome.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  5. One Day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That seems like an awfully small window to brain-dump all the info the new guy will need. I think you'll find yourself doing an "oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you about this" thing for awhile. Trying to make the guy look lazy or incompetent for not knowing everything after 1 whole day of info-sharing sounds mean-spirited.

    1. Re:One Day? by VenomousGecko · · Score: 2

      I was thinking the same thing. Way to be a good co-worker! You are giving a new person a whole day to learn what you worked on for 5 years? How very kind of you. I can only hope the person you are taking over for (or working with) shows you the same courtesy.

    2. Re:One Day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh the simple minded disposition of capitalists, this is academia, wherein the very nature of ones environment imparts upon the actor great powers of intellect and wisdom with which to combat the plebeian task of acquiring technical acuity. In terms of the simpleton, which I'm sure you'll appreciate, individuals with proper education require significantly less training time, otherwise an education would have little to no affect on hiring decisions.

  6. You should by skovnymfe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    change your name and get a new phone number, and let the new guy figure out everything on his own, from reading your properly written documentation. You did write good documentation, right?

  7. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You seriously expect he'll be able to take in everything in a single day? Better make sure he records the session, isn't love-sick, in perfect physical and mental health, and not nervous. If those servers are important at all, chances are he's competent (unless there's nepotism, which could be even more dangerous to you).

  8. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow -- seriously? I'VE been doing IT for FAR longer than 5 years, and the attitude you're displaying right now I'd notice and either not hire you or fire your ass.

    I'll be the first to agree if you end up with some incompetent boob, you want that on him and not you ending up doing two jobs, but if you had any maturity or experience, you'd recognize it _might_ take longer than 1 day to do a full knowledge transfer (in fact, if it only takes 1 day, frankly, you shouldn't have had a full time job.. you must have had a lot of downtime to post on Facebook). I'd do my best to document everything in a wiki, show him the ropes his first day, and provide him with my contact information. If a month later he was still bothering me for minutiae, we'd have words -- if three months later he was calling me for an emergency, I'd handle it and then handle him. But 1 day and gone? Either your 'sysadmin' position was 'sit on ass all day' or you need to realign your expectations. What would you want to happen if it was you coming in blind?

    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the same thoughts when I read the OP.

      Posting as anonymous because too many people seemed to think 1 day was enough. Scary.

    2. Re:Wow by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      You really need to work on your reading comprehension, buddy. The submitter said what he was already planning to do, but also said he wants to do more. It's not like he isn't open to the possibility of more hands-on training days, or whatever else it takes for a smooth handoff.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP again,

                This guy understood my vague post (which was my fault for making it vague) I have well documented work, scripts are commented although i don't know if he knows how to see that.
      I was told "You can move once your train your replacement, he doesn't have much experience with linux so be thorough "

      I flashed forward and saw myself doing 2 jobs.
      Just looking for advice to keep the calls to a minimum, making him think twice about calling me.

      I expected some people to jump down my throat... this is the internet afterall

    4. Re:Wow by trongey · · Score: 2

      This guy understood my vague post (which was my fault for making it vague) I have well documented work, ...

      The first statement makes me a bit skeptical about the last one. IT people ALWAYS think they are great at sharing knowledge - we aren't.
      Expect a lot of calls.

      --
      You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
    5. Re:Wow by muckracer · · Score: 2

      > I'll be the first to agree if you end up with some incompetent boob,
      > you want that on him

      Yes folks...you ALWAYS want such boobs on the other guy! :-P

    6. Re:Wow by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Somebody give this fellow modpoints!

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    7. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was told "You can move once your train your replacement, he doesn't have much experience with linux so be thorough "

      I feel sorry for you. It sounds like your employer has done a half-assed job of finding and interviewing applicants for the position. If the replacement was already familiar with the environment then maybe you could get away with a one day handover, but I've tended to have a week for each handover I've done in the past. I still have semi-regular lunches with past associates and still get occasional the "how does this work?" or "any ideas how this should be done?" even though it's been years since I left the positions. You shouldn't expect to get away scot-free, and I urge you to remember the up and down ladder moral.

  9. Give them the knowledgebase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Make sure they know where everything's been documented.

    Everything is documented, right?... If not, expect many, many "please help" calls.

    1. Re:Give them the knowledgebase by Y2KDragon · · Score: 1

      Or. Change your phone number after you leave. To be honest, you owe no obligation to your former employer once you part ways. Give the new person the fair rundown on what you've been doing, make sure that person knows the general architecture and who is responsible for what, then let that person run with it. If they are worth the pay, they'll make that their own inside of 6 months, and you'll be nothing more than "that guy who was here before". Relax, it will be fine.

    2. Re:Give them the knowledgebase by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      How can so many people not have read a single paragraph question. He's moving internally. Worse, he's moving internally at a university, an institutional type notorious for politics, good old boy deals, resource sharing, etc. There's a very good chance that his new and old boss are friends and serve on committees together. There's a small but existent chance they hate each other and his old boss will use a poor transition as ammunition against the new boss (It wasn't enough to just poach my employee, oh no, Bob also made sure that my new guy got next to no training."). Even if they don't know each other very wells (unlikely given the overlap of their responsibilities), at the very least the new boss will see an opportunity to earn a few favors from the old boss by providing OP whenever there's an issue that new guy can't handle.

      You can get away with that shit when you're leaving a company, though it's an asshole move in my opinion and unnecessarily burns bridges, but OP needs to handle this transition well. At the barest minimum it will prevent embarrassing encounters at the student center while grabbing lunch.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    3. Re:Give them the knowledgebase by anyGould · · Score: 1

      There's a small but existent chance they hate each other and his old boss will use a poor transition as ammunition against the new boss (It wasn't enough to just poach my employee, oh no, Bob also made sure that my new guy got next to no training.").

      That happens in internal moves at corps as well. The traditional counter is "I hired him months ago; if you can't be bothered to handle your HR in a timely manner, that's your problem." (or polite variants thereof).

  10. Whenever you move on to a position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... I find it's best to leave a turd on a keyboard. In other words, literally move on it.

    1. Re:Whenever you move on to a position by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      ... I find it's best to leave a turd on a keyboard. In other words, literally move on it.

      It's actually more phun to leave shrimps under the false floor.

  11. perfection is not the key by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1

    I'm trying to cover all my bases

    Perfection is unattainable. This is like trying to write some code and anticipate every possible bug before you ship. There will be bugs - accept that there will be a beta phase to your handover.

    --
    (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
  12. Leave the keys on the kitchen counter... by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Insightful
    and don't look back.

    Let the bank deal with all the trash you left behind and how to clean it up before they try and resell the place.

    Oh, you weren't talking about being foreclosure. On second thought, my first thought stands.

    Honestly, what's wrong with the new admin coming to you with questions, as long as s/he doesn't abuse the relationship? You'll find that in moving to networking, you're probably going to be doing some work with he new admin anyway, just not directly. Might as well maintain a healthy relationship.

  13. The Great Escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run, run like the wind, burn every bridge and make it known you will be moving on far away and never communicating with the ex employer again then disappear into the wild not seen or heard from into eternity and you might just avoid being burned at the stake or sent to prison for having a password.

    1. Re:The Great Escape by tqk · · Score: 1

      Run, run like the wind, burn every bridge and make it known you will be moving on far away and never communicating with the ex employer again ...

      Please, go and play in traffic on the freeway. A Mack truck in the back of the head would be good for you. You're not adding anything of value here.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  14. You be late, mon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Five years, no site documentation? Bit of a failure right there. Right now the best course would be to stay on for a couple weeks, set up a wiki or anything else to aid taking notes, and work with your replacement to bring it to completeness while he gets up to speed. He can explore and write down, you fill in the details. If you don't have weeks, you give him the wiki but keep access for a while and fill in the details as and when you can. Any question answered that way --and most won't be time-critical-- is a phone call avoided.

  15. Take the stapler by KermodeBear · · Score: 1

    That your red Swingline stapler with you. It's yours, you earned it!

    On a more serious note, document any kind of common troubles (networking problems, services that need special care, whatever) as they come in. Consolidate that information and provide a nice little package.

    This is what I am doing where I work. We have a client on old, legacy software with some really quirky behavior in some circumstances. So I have a document detailing common issues, what the symptoms are, how to troubleshoot, and how to fix. This is THE FIRST document I am handing off to the next guy and will cover 95% of the issues he's going to be dealing with. I don't mind if he calls me for the extra 5% - that's where the dragons are anyway.

    Cover the worst case scenario stuff first with the limited time you have left. If that means you don't have time to document the mundane stuff like a normal server configuration, then that's okay. They can piece together the non-critical stuff during normal business hours. They may grumble at you then, but they'll worship you if you can save them during that 2am emergency phone call.

    --
    Love sees no species.
  16. Break a few things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then they won't invite you back

  17. Last minute changes? by rednip · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Essentially, I'm trying to cover all my bases so any excuse my replacement has to call me is seen as nothing but laziness or incompetence.

    Do you hate the guy? Sure people can be time wasters, but you wouldn't be blowing off a user, but an admin who's hands you might need at some time in the future.

    I now find myself typing up all my open-ended projects, removing certain scripts and stopping others.

    What's with all the last minute changes? Clearly it's not a 'best practice' to change anything just before you hand it over, as some issues can take days, weeks, or months to become noticed, if they can be traced back you your last minute 'unwarranted' changes, you'll be at the other end of those 'incompetence charges'.

    --
    The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    1. Re:Last minute changes? by tqk · · Score: 1

      What's with all the last minute changes? Clearly it's not a 'best practice' to change anything just before you hand it over, as some issues can take days, weeks, or months to become noticed ...

      It can be done "right". Eg., a sort of "Dead Man's Switch":

      touch ~user/I_am_here

      Then in jobs you want to be run (untested!):

      if [ ! -f "~user/I_am_here" ]; then
            echo "you need to \$(touch ~/I_am_here) then edit $0 to look for it." | \
                          mutt -s "$0 will not run until \*YOU\* TAKE IT OVER!" root << \
                                            ~user/.signature
            exit 0
      fi

      When you leave, "rm ~/I_am_here". Your successor need only check their mail, or root's mail, for every job that'll need tweaking.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  18. Make a support contract by MikkoApo · · Score: 2

    Ideally administrators should aim to automate everything with scripts and then document the use of the scripts. That way, if you're hit by a bus the whole system is already in a good shape for others to continue. Personally I think it's part of the administrators responsibility to keep the system in such a good shape. Management should also understand the importance of this and allocate enough time to keep systems in good shape. Doing things like that as an afterthought takes a really long time and makes knowledge transfers really painful.

    If your management has allocated only one day for the knowledge transfer, they're taking a huge risk. There's no way you can teach everything about a system in a day. What you can do, is tell your current management realistically about the situation and the risks. After you've gone through the system with the replacement talk to the management about how the knowledge transfer went and make a signed contract about how much support you are willing to give afterwards and how much it will cost them.

    With a contract it's up to the management to decide on how much their system is worth to them and you'll get compensation on doing extra work. Who knows, maybe the management will realise that spending a week on the knowledge transfer upfront might be cheaper than paying you afterwards.

  19. Don't be a dick, dick by jholyhead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the guy who replaces you needs a hand, give him a god damned hand!

    If you've failed to adequately document your role in the time you've been there, you're the one who is lazy and incompetent - it is in your best interests to convince your replacement not to point this out to your old boss, who might point it out to your new boss.

    1. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by EliSowash · · Score: 1

      Damn skippy. I left a job three months ago, after 8 1/2 years with the firm. I've forgotten more tribal knowledge than most of the remaining staff knows, and on average, I've gotten at least one phone call a week since then. I think I was pretty well documented (again, I'm in agreement with you) but there's just some stuff that never got written down. If I'm a reliable repository, why shouldn't I be tapped for a question?

    2. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

      you're still going to be around the place? Don't be a dick.

      Don't do their job for them.
      Don't second guess changes they start making.
      Don't set them adrift. Be a responsible member of the community.
      For any significant issues / problems that you are called in about, make sure to include your boss and their boss and work to make sure they don't need you again for the same sort of thing.

    3. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is wise to be helpful. Anyway, you should help him or her even if there is no direct benefit in it. This is called normal social behavior. Being an egotistic dick, is definitely not the right choice.

    4. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by greenlead · · Score: 1

      Because you are not a reliable repository. You are an organic machine and subject to its faults. If you get seriously sick / dead they will get a 404 for their request.

    5. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by Americano · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This, and... if the replacement has a legit problem that will require a significant chunk of your time to help address and correct, make sure you tell him "Look, I'm happy to help, but you gotta get your boss to talk to mine. This is a 10hr/week x 8 week commitment you're asking of me, and there needs to be mgmt support of me spending this much time in this fashion."

      This situation happened to me where I was reorg'ed to a new department. I was the last person at the company who had working knowledge of a system which was decommissioned shortly before I was reorg'ed, and then some legal snafu happened and my replacement was faced with the need to dig into offsite backups, pull data out of the archived system, and provide that data to some other team. The guy who took over my other projects was competent, but it still would have taken him months to understand & get everything working again. I was familiar with the system, but I told him that it would still take me a couple weeks to get everything operational and extract the data, and asked him & his manager to talk to my new boss to make sure I was cleared to spend my time doing that much work for them.

      This way, I:
      1) Was the "nice guy" who helped out a coworker in a bind;
      2) Didn't get slagged by my own boss for suddenly wasting a ton of time doing something unrelated to my new role that he hadn't assigned me;
      3) Didn't have to spend hours and hours working "free overtime" for the company;
      4) Got extra credit on my next review for not being a prima donna who refuses to pitch in when his expertise needed;

      I also received (and receive still) occasional calls from the person who inherited my projects when I was reorg'ed. When he has a question, he'll usually call me and say, "Hey, let me buy you a cup of coffee." I get a free cup of coffee, he gets pointed in the right direction, and then we spend 15 minutes chatting about life and work and family.

    6. Re:Don't be a dick, dick by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Agree 100%. Management needs to talk. Also if things start to slide, they need to be made aware (10h/week starts growing for example). I have had the conversation before about priorities, where I have X time, and Y projects, and only have time for Z of them. Decide what Z is. Just like when random last minute stuff comes up, log it, and be up front about saying "yes I can do that no problem" however something else is put on hold or dropped because of it. At the end of the years evaluation, make sure you maintain a list just in case the management is like why didn't you get projects A, B and C finished! A simple response of because you had me doing D, E, and F instead.

      Anyway sorry about the letters I don't know whats wrong with me.

      This message brought you you by the letter F, and the Number 4.

  20. One Day is Insufficient by sociocapitalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Get your management to buy into you sharing your time between networking and systems for perhaps two or three weeks (you decide based on volume and complexity of what needs to be handed over) and spend as much time as needed to (a) evaluate the skills of the new 'guy' and (b) get them up to speed on whatever they need to know. If you don't do it in the beginning you'll be doing it for months.

    During this 'handover' period, track questions, answers, issues and concerns in one document that you and the new admin review at least once a week (again I don't know the scale of your environment). If any questions come up later and you've documented the entire handover period this way you're covered.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    1. Re:One Day is Insufficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fully agree w/ this! Plus, it will show that you're a team-player and not simply trying to leave him to fend on his own. 1 day would not be enough even for a well qualified replacement. It may be enough to get him started, but remember, this was your baby, you'll want it to succeed even when you're gone. If the time/resource allocation is the issue, get w/ management and explain the situation and how you'd like to give a few days of your time to get them on a solid foundation. I'm sure you're management would be in support of it, if they are fully aware of your intents (to help, not to push stuff away).

  21. Handing Over Professionally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The best way to do this is to ensure that your documentation is up to date, provide him with a list of key events in the year. You work at a University so it should include the following -

    Tasks carried out at the beginning of the academic year
    Tasks carried out at the beginning of the academic year
    Significant times of the year e.g. exam times.

    You are running a full change control system, ;-) Universities in my experience don't but they should. List every change you make to the systems from now until you hand over.

    Don't burn any bridges, expect to be called by your replacement, remember you are not leaving the organisation and the management are within the rights to ask you to help out. Eventually you will realise that you have not had a call for 6 months.

    Remember people who post things like "change your name and number" have either never worked in the industry or have just started out. They will not get far with that attitude.

    Disclaimer I’ve worked for three universities in the UK, this is based upon experience.

  22. Relax by coldfarnorth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds like you are taking most of the right steps already. Writing up projects, one last round of cleaning. . .

    The rest really depends on how big of a job you are handing over. If you were a full time admin, then a single day of training is probably not going to be sufficient. If it was a part time position, then perhaps one day is sufficient. That said, I still wouldn't assume that the new guy is incompetent if he has questions after the first day.

    I'd suggest that you tell the guy up front: You are moving to a new job and you won't have a lot of time to answer questions, but you don't want him to feel like you screwed him over. Do your day of training, offer to field emails for a week or two (you'll reply within 24 hours) then schedule an additional session for two weeks later. You should scale this to the size of the job you are handing over: perhaps an hour phone conference for small stuff, up to another day of training if you are handing over a full time position. At that point, he or she can ask any further questions and you can call it quits.

    This buys you a bit of goodwill from both the new guy and your old boss. (Going to be wanting a reference from him someday? Show that you care and want things to go well, even after you leave.) Besides, odds are that the new guy is even moderately competent, he won't email you after the 3rd day, and will cancel your 2 week phone call. Plus, if he really is incompetent and starts seriously leaning on your expertise, you should call your old boss and tell him that the new guy has issues - that's probably more valuable than a slip of paper with a (now-known) incompetent's signature.

    Best of luck.

    --
    Lets start refering to The War Against Terror by it's initials. . .
  23. Checklist by porsche911 · · Score: 2

    Put together a very detailed checklist of everything you are going to hand off. Make him own the list and take notes then make him do a review with you and his manager of what he's learned and then have both of them sign off on the training. Be available for quick questions but keep very detailed notes about how much time you are spending during the first couple of weeks. When he calls you should ask what he's done already with the problem to make sure he isn't getting into the default behavior of calling you first. You need to make sure he can be successful (as in the don't burn bridges philosophy) but at the same time is taking ownership of the job.

    Good luck,
    -c

  24. Flash gun by 6Yankee · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wait for the first phone call.
    Grab flash gun, keep it hidden.
    Disappear behind server rack, muttering "I'm so lucky Health and Safety never came back here...."
    Discharge flash gun.
    Scream, swear loudly, and wave hand as if burnt.
    Wait for "It's OK, we've got this."
    Relax.

  25. Every support request/answer in writing / email by farnsaw · · Score: 1

    Make sure you answer all support requests via email CCing your new boss (and possibly his) so everyone knows how much time you are spending on the handover. Additionally, it also allows you to track duplicate and repeat questions and to just forward the old email, again including your new boss and possibly his. This is a STRONG encouragement for the new guy to truly take over and your support duties will diminish over time.

    --
    "Computer Scientists can count to 1024 on their fingers" (non-mutant, non-mutilatated, human computer scientists)
  26. It should already be documented. by djsmiley · · Score: 2

    You should of documented everything as you went along.

    Now it bites you in the ass, lucky for your replacement you haven't just been run over / killed some how and they CAN question you.

    --
    - http://www.milkme.co.uk
  27. To Do List by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As a good admin, you have documented the server configuration. Especially which services are there, which serivce uses another service etc. In short the architecture of your system existsin a document (or better in a Wiki). there is al ist of all admin-passwords for these services in a separate location (in paper). If you have a wiki, you normally you have a page per machine, containg a service list of it on that page including services which are used by that machine (LDAP for auth). Also you have a separate page for the architecture of all machines.

    If you have kept you documentation in a good state, you can just pass that to the next admin. Every open project has a ticket and its progress documented in a ticket system (we use trac so wiki and bugtracker are combined in one tool, but the tool as such is not important, only the function is important). Such projects comprise requests for SSL certificates, request for service deployments, changes etc.

    If you do not have such system, then help the next guy to establish one.

  28. Lemme try this on by Stargoat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OK. Lemme try on:

    You installed a bunch of open source software all over the place, removing Windows, Unix, and or Novell. (Probably Windows.) Your documentation is, admittedly, less than complete. You, admittedly, have scripts running here and there, which are also likely less than documented. You also are doing a job that should take a month, bringing a new admin up to speed on your (literally) custom built network, in a day.

    And your primary concern is (and I quote):

    I'm trying to cover all my bases so any excuse my replacement has to call me is seen as nothing but laziness or incompetence.

    If I was your boss, I'd fire you and might consider bringing you up on charges of interfering with government property. What, is your name Terry Childers? Probably not. He at least was trying to do a good job. You're just the sort of tool that gives Linux users and computer guys in general a bad name.

    The best practice for leaving an IT position? You should start by improving your attitude.

    --
    Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    1. Re:Lemme try this on by ledow · · Score: 1

      At which point did the OP mention Linux at all?

    2. Re:Lemme try this on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      GP is projecting so hard he should be pointed at a wall in the board room.

    3. Re:Lemme try this on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      this is slashdot. linux is implied. so is opensource and ponies. there's probably a beowulf cluster of c64s in the corner running the spam filters.

    4. Re:Lemme try this on by Kjella · · Score: 1

      GP is projecting so hard he should be pointed at a wall in the board room.

      LOL wish I had mod points, made me chuckle.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Lemme try this on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let me clarify,
      The guy coming in has no server experience and I have a rep for just doing other peoples work because it's easier than fighting for it. I don't want to be stuck in the position where i'm doing 2 jobs.
      I had no say in his hiring, hes a friend of the boss.
      The servers are linux and there is nothing that is not documented, i'm meticulous he does not know how to use vi, doesn't know of nano I have my work cut out here and i'm looking to avoid sitting there 2 months to bring him up to speed.

      So in your pessimistic view of how i operate you would of been right however you assumed too much. I don't see where I admitted anything was undocumented do you? Yes, i have open projects, who doesn't? I'm removing them because they are my projects that are unfinished, he might want to go in a different direction. Put your pitchfork away and try to be a little more constructive in your response

      I'm going with the Wiki idea,

      what i was trying to prevent was a call every 5 minutes and him hitting the staples that was easy button when i'm done doing the work.

    6. Re:Lemme try this on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You might have tried clarifying in your original posting. Notice that this far from the only person responding who thinks you're being an ass. Go back and read what you wrote. And then try to do a better job at getting your point across when you're writing your documentation, because if that's your best, you'll be getting a lot of phone calls.

    7. Re:Lemme try this on by tqk · · Score: 1

      You might have tried clarifying in your original posting.

      For some people, no amount of clarification will be enough. Plenty of professionally minded folks in this thread understood exactly what he was asking for and offered what they had knowingly and politely.

      A few have replied with suspicion and accusations. C'est la vie.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    8. Re:Lemme try this on by Stargoat · · Score: 1

      In that case, I admit my error and I apologize. It sounds like you do have a good reason for wanting to do what you are doing. Be careful though. Stuff like what you wrote above could really bite you in the ass.

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    9. Re:Lemme try this on by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Let me try:
      You made a pile of registry hacks all over the place ...
      Running systems is running systems and don't let being a platform fanboy make you write stupid shit. You can be a good or bad admin on any platform.

  29. Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh I don't know, maybe you should treat the guy that is replacing you, how you would like to be treated by the guy you are replacing.

  30. Here is what you do: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1. Put a backdoor in all of the servers.
    2. Don't tell anyone about it.
    3. When you are trying to get another job, show off your backdoors to the interviewers.
    4. Demonstrate how you could cripple the servers with a simple keystroke.
    5. ???
    6. Profit.

  31. Prepare for leaving from the first day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You had to have all scripts documented. You had to have all your job documented. You had to start prepare for leave from the first day. If you did then just hand all stuff to replacement and half day speak on what is what and then go to have a drink. If you didn't then you got paid for not doing your job, phone calls should be ok.

  32. You Suck, the New Person Doesn't by emmjayell · · Score: 1

    Pretty much, no matter what you do, even if you build a wiki, have everything amazingly documented, and are in the top 10% of all shops in terms of best practices, the new person will find reasons to find fault with what you have done. Servers will be rebuilt, upgrades will happen, etc. A year from now, things will either be better off than when you were running them or worse off, but the reality is that re-use just doesn't happen enough in our industry. So if re-use isn't happening, then it's really just up to the quality of the individual.

    1. Re:You Suck, the New Person Doesn't by biodata · · Score: 1

      This. It is a rule of organisations that a new person has magical unknown powers, and an existing person has a number of well-known weaknesses. Whatever happens the person who just left gets some blame for anything that goes wrong - this is in everyone's interests - the new person gets to keep their halo shiny, the bosses and users get to keep their illusions that they have done a great thing by getting the new person. You, as the person who just left, get the blame, but this is how life in organisations works. In your new network role you are the new person, full of magical unknown powers. This phase only lasts from 3-6 months so make the most of it. After that everyone realises that it's all much of a muchness in any case.

      --
      Korma: Good
  33. Handover? by pev · · Score: 1

    A days handover for five years worth of running systems seems foolish. If it was me I'd have ideally arranged one to two weeks overlap so the new guy can shadow you and go through a few cycles of standard stuff in progress...

  34. scorched earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    scorched earth is the best policy. It just makes things easier for everyone.

    1. Re:scorched earth by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      You're right, it's an excellent game.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  35. Help Them Out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It does seem like you are expecting trouble for some reason. A few things:

    1. You've worked in your old job for 5 years - if you haven't convinced your old boss that you are good value it is probably too late to start now.

    2. Does it really matter what your old boss thinks of you once you move?

    3. You should help your replacement to the limit your new boss will let you (and you should advocate strongly for providing the assistance). The idea of a one day handover after five years under your administration (I'm assuming you are full time) is not reasonable.

    I know there is a bit of a culture for inexperienced techs blamestorming when they arrive in a new environment because it is unfamiliar/not setup like their last job. Just accept it is human nature - geeks are the worst because they like to be in control. Help them get the control they are after, and then enjoy the benefit of a productive working relationship with a colleague who will respect your site knowledge and be prepared to help grease the wheels of the machine so you can be more effective in your own job.

  36. OP is an Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sound like an ass from your statements. A smooth transition will take more than 1 day. Likely several weeks. Dont you have some sort of log book/run book/wiki where you note all the crap you dont want to have to remember?
    If I were your boss and you had this attitude you would not have gotten any kind of good reference other than "Yes that person does work here." More likely you would have been fired long ago.

    You would not last in any type of real world job.

  37. One day? X hours over a year is better by bradley13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One day is not realistic. Even if you are super-organized, and actually managed to touch on every single topic in that day, there's no way the new person will understand it all.

    It's a slightly different context, but when I turned over a software system, I agreed to this: 40 hours consulting included, anytime over the next year. The first few hours were obviously used immediately. After that, questions came in less-and-less frequently. For me: I knew there was an end. For the people taking over the system: when unexpected issues came up, they knew they could count on help. In fact, they were so restrained about questions that I didn't mind answering a couple of questions after the year was up.

    Long story, but I think the same idea would work for you. To keep things clear, write up an agreement and get the right people to sign it. However, as others have pointed out: wanting to be able to prove the other person to be lazy or incompetent is worrisome. You are all on the same team. Check your attitude - it's better to be colleagues than enemies.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:One day? X hours over a year is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah,
      I'm going with the wiki idea. But that is also a nice point.
      My main point it I don't want to be stuck doing both jobs as he has no server background and I'm the one who built the servers, databases and content.

      I'm not looking to make him look like a fool, but i'd like him to feel he has to research a little before picking up the phone because when he does, i don't have the authority to say no to him, I have too much invested in my career.

    2. Re:One day? X hours over a year is better by Americano · · Score: 1

      because when he does, i don't have the authority to say no to him, I have too much invested in my career.

      So don't say 'no' to him. Say, "Sure, I'll help you out if my manager will agree to me being assigned back to work with you for X hours to do this work. If your boss can talk to my boss and get that worked out, let's do this."

      If you haven't learned how to say "no" nicely, it's time you learned. Don't say "No, go fuck yourself," say "I'd be happy to help, I just need to make sure my boss is okay with me spending my time on this." Your new boss will quickly realize something's wrong if you're constantly working for your old boss fixing stuff for the new guy. New boss is paying your salary now, he's going to want some value for that money, and he's going to be very much not okay with your old boss dominating your time because he hired someone who is incompetent.

  38. Same company? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    if so, expect to be helping the new guy for months. One day of training the new guy isn't going to be reality. Did you figure it out in a day? did all your projects take a day?

    if you are moving to a different company, expect phone calls, that you can always refuse or ask for a fee..

    But ya, if you were not documenting as part of normal practice, document it all now..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Same company? by IT.luddite · · Score: 1

      Can't agree more. If you really want to hand off, you have to find a different EMPLOYER and not a different department/supervisor. Otherwise, every project you've ever lead will be yours forever. Sure, someone may be "responsible" for the day to day stuff and it can be upgraded half a dozen times, but if it falls over and the current guy/gal can't figure it out, you'll be getting the call. Documentation is great, but it only gets you so far as it's nigh impossible to document everything you did and why, much less what to do when X happens do Y for every case. The other reality w/ documentation is that for it to be useful, someone has to READ it. Good luck with that, RTFM became part of the gestalt for a reason. Suck it up, follow a previous poster's advice by CC'ing your new supervisor so he/she atleast can see how much time suck is going on and just be helpful as you can to the next guy. After all, it's us vs the users! ;)

  39. overlap insufficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Regardless of documentation, best-practice is to have *considerable* more overlap than one day. At a minimum, a month.

  40. Standard industrial practices by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 2

    I should recur to standard industrial practices. The rather lovable character known as BOFH compiled a comprehensive canonical volume. A standard opus for all sysadmins. I fancy you will find ample advice on how to behave in the situation whereby handover must be effectuated imminently.

    Indeed I am so pleased to know your valiant endeavours are not within the organisation I am currently engaged with.

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    1. Re:Standard industrial practices by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      And I was surprised to notice that nobody had referred OP to alt.syadmin.recovery, which makes abundantly clear what the only real way to stop being a sysadmin is.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Standard industrial practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Down, not across.

    3. Re:Standard industrial practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I was surprised to notice that nobody had referred OP to alt.syadmin.recovery, which makes abundantly clear what the only real way to stop being a sysadmin is.

      Ah, thank you. I just checked; it's comforting to know that the scary devil monastery is still active.

      Down, not across.

    4. Re:Standard industrial practices by tqk · · Score: 1

      And I was surprised to notice that nobody had referred OP to alt.syadmin.recovery, which makes abundantly clear what the only real way to stop being a sysadmin is.

      "Down, not across"? If I were a Win* admin, that would be good advice.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  41. Your concern is admirable, but... by Arrogant-Bastard · · Score: 1

    ...keep in mind that those you work for would cut you loose without a second though if it were convenient for them do so. You owe them no loyalty whatsoever: that's why it's called a "job", you're only obligated to do what you do as long as you're being paid for it, and that obligation ceases instantly when you're not. (If you think that their perceived obligation to you will last one nanosecond longer, then you are foolish and naive.)

    So while you hold the job, you should do the best that you can to document and to explain. Of course, if you're being replaced by an idiot, no amount of documentation and explanation will suffice: stupid people are, well, stupid. But presuming that your replacement has at least minimally acceptable level intelligence, it shouldn't be all that difficult for them to transition into your role.

    Despite all of this, however, you WILL be blamed when something goes wrong because that's a natural human tendency: people who do not think through cause-and-effect relationships leap to conclusions, and this particular one is especially tempting. It's really not worth going through the effort to refute it; doubly so if your replacement reinforces the idea. (I'm STILL being blamed for the failure of a subsequent admin to read a very-well documented shell script that was specifically and extensively covered during my last handoff, despite the fact that I handed this person a piece of paper with that script mentioned by name, in bold 18-point type, in the first 3 minutes of our first meeting. *shrug* There's nothing I can do when faced with such an alarmingly low level of comprehension.)

  42. You are dead to them by shrapnull · · Score: 1

    True story: I took over a 10,000 node network for an admin that had just killed himself, leaving no server or network documentation whatsoever. It took time to reflash all of the switches and find tricks to replace passwords on servers and figure out how everything was more or less organized. Leaving a few passwords for the next guy and a rough, top-down analysis of how things interact on paper will work wonders for the next guy. That being said, it's possible (not pleasant) to move forward with no prior knowledge; any explanation you can provide will go a long way. Doubly-so if you put it on paper. You have to realize that gaps will be filled with his way of doing things, not yours. In a few years the network as you knew it could be almost unrecognizable, but it's for the best, and the new guy will have complete control of what's there and how it interacts.

    --
    If you're half as beautiful naked, you'd be 4 times as beautiful with twice as many clothes on.
    1. Re:You are dead to them by PenquinCoder · · Score: 1

      True story: I took over a 10,000 node network for an admin that had just killed himself, leaving no server or network documentation whatsoever.

      Condolences to the guy who offed himself, but that in-itself should give you pause to try and taking over that network. If HE couldn't handle the stress of a 10,000 node network with no documentation, what makes you think you can handle the pressure?

  43. You should grow up by dirtyhippie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's unrealistic to expect everything to just work smoothly under a new person after 5 years working (I presume) mostly by yourself. It's not laziness or incompetence for the FNG to consult the person who architected the system when the documentation inevitably falls short. Grow up, be a professional, and help the new guy out.

  44. Best Practice: Documentation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you haven't clearly documented your role, processes and responsibilities (and keep it up to date) then any perception of laziness will be upon you! Best Practice: you should never be the only resource for uncovering how your job is/was performed. Your management is at fault if you haven't done this, they are rolling the dice on the assumption that you will always be there to answer these questions. If you haven't taken the initiative on your own then you are left with only 2 options: 1) provide support when your replacement needs it, or 2) quit and find another job somewhere else.

  45. Put it in writing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I learned the hard way that just asking/telling my boss to change all the passwords was not enough. Type something up and have them sign it that 1. They will change the passwords with x days. 2. They will not question you and accuse you of 'hacking' or entering their systems.

    I use to work for a large bedding company ( the big one). When I left I told them again and again to change the passwords after I left. After a year a found out that they were looking for a scape goat as the new people screwed things up. They were libeling me and saying that I was logging into their systems and deleting data. I was upset but there was little that I could do other than to keep telling them that they were idiots and that I told them to change the passwords, which they had not done and that they should bend over further to extract their heads.

    This is from a company that I loved and I continued to answer support calls from plant managers for many months after I left. BTW, answering phone calls from a former worker is tricky, and I always reminded them that I didn't work there any longer and to check with xxxx to confirm my answer.

  46. Just do your job by tverbeek · · Score: 1

    If you've been doing your job properly and documenting everything, you don't need to do anything but hand that documentation - and the passwords - over to your successor, and give him a tour (and map) of the physical environment. If not... except to get phone calls.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  47. why locking myself out when just moving groups? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    why locking myself out when just moving groups?

    IT's not like you don't work there any more and I would think they would like you to help out with a change over / helping out the your old group with stuff that your new group does and or stuff that both groups need to do together.

    1. Re:why locking myself out when just moving groups? by bamwham · · Score: 1

      My thought as well. This is going to be the guy you sit next to in meetings. He is going to either pick your brain about what you've done and why; or he is going to give you grief about how poorly documented the systems are (I'm guessing from your post, VERY). I see the advantage of constant and thorough documentation from Day 0 on, and your first word of advice to your predecessor should be that he fix this problem. The primary reason I document my polciies and procedures is so that others can pick up if I am out of the office for an extended time. With aging parents living in a different state is not uncommon for me to have to disappear for a few weeks a year with little or no notice. It's nice to just notify my colleagues of where they can find the notes on time critical work in an email from the airport.

  48. Been there...done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I worked at a University, and now I work at a different university...

    First of all, you can't cut the person off the minute you walk out the door. The job I left, the I.T. manager was still there after I left, and even though I thought I showed him everything there was, stuff still came up(mostly due to annual license renewals). I took the 30 seconds to jog my memory, then sent him a quick email telling him what to do. I think the last email came a year after I left.

    Second, and this is a general rule that all I.T. people should follow, use the generally accepted method for running things. If your flavor of Linux doesn't use apache.conf, then make sure you don't run it that way just because that's what your used to. Should something happen to you, being able to follow online wikis makes it much easier for the next person to not only figure out what you did, but not break more stuff when he/she starts patching things.

    Third, in relation to #2, train the new person in whatever custom scripts/tools/etc. you created. Each one of these should be fully documented, both in a wiki and in the code itself. Make sure the new person understands each script/tool before you go.

    Finally, IT people at universities know each other. Their reputation preceeds them, and if you prove yourself to be a douche to your previous department, that will hang over your head for the rest of your career.

  49. Documentation by greenlead · · Score: 1

    You need to have documented as a standard practice during every project. Don't just store it electronically either -- networks and computers fail at inopportune times -- but make sure that enough information stored on paper to figure out what is going on if everything breaks especially domain and local admin passwords for each machine. If the paper contains sensitive info, keep it secured (in a safe that he, you, and a trustworthy third party can get into) but still document it. It is hopeless to try to document all of your work at the end as you will lose a lot of the important details (that one missing simple step that it took you forever to figure out to get the thing working).

  50. And, what have you been up to? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2

    removing certain scripts and stopping others.

    That leads me to believe you have been abusing your access. There should be no need to stop, let alone remove, scripts any scripts from a production server when turning that server over to a new person. The only two explanations are either you are trying to hamstring him or you are doing something unethical, probably immoral, possibly illegal, and would definitely get you in trouble with your boss.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:And, what have you been up to? by mcmonkey · · Score: 2

      I surprised more folks haven't picked on that aspect of the OP.

      The quick work-around you didn't document because it was meant to be a short-term fix, but you never resolved that issue so short-term turned in to SOP, yes, document that bit for your successor.

      But scripts you feel you need to stop or remove? Sounds like you'll get away with whatever you were up to this time. Stop looking back and concern yourself with your new position. Take this as a lesson learned. Work in a manner such that you could leave at a moments notice and worse that could be said was you left some project unfinished.

  51. Documentation is your friend by karniv0re · · Score: 1

    I was in a similar situation. You'll never get out of helping out the new guy as long as you're under the same company, but you can make your life easier by throwing everything on an internal wiki. When you get asked a question, it's a lot easier and less annoying to send a link to a wiki article than to have to re-explain it from scratch.

    I'm also finding, the longer you're out of the job, the easier you forget things. Document!

  52. Just slip out the back, Jack. by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

    Make a new plan, Stan.
    You don't need to be coy, Roy,
    Just listen to me.
    Hop on the bus, Gus.
    You don't need to discuss much
    Just drop off the key, Lee.
    And get yourself free.

    (But seriously, anything you would do, should have been done already. Anything you'd document, should be already documented. Any scripts you're stopping or removing, sounds like stuff that shouldn't have been running in the first place.

    Any clean-up/CYA you feel you need to do now, just keep in mind for your next job. And don't do those things again! That way you won't feel the need to cover your tracks when you move on.)

  53. Consider yourself fortunate and be a good guy... by lythander · · Score: 1

    I understand the desire to eject and focus on the new work, and certainly that there may have been more than one reason to want to make your move in the first place. I work at a university as well, and understand the challenges and difficulties in moving up inside them.

    That said, recognize that if you've done what many sysadmins do and hacked together a bunch of tools to make everything hum without excellent documentation (I certainly have) then you owe your replacement (if not your former bosses) some assistance. You are part of institutional memory and even if you documented your solutions well, you likely didn't document the reasons behind them, or the politics that surrounded them. The new guy/gal will need that context.

    Give your one-day hand-over, and in it, set a very clear protocol with boundaries that everyone can agree on (including your new bosses) for providing assistance to the new sysadmin. Make it clear that off-hours is out of bounds, or create a process that avoids you hiking across campus on no notice. Questions will arise over the next several years, though they should taper more or less exponentially. Expect it and be prepared. The value to you of not being a dick about it will be enormous, especially if you plan to stay there for a substantial period of your career (and as a fellow uni employee, why would you not?) will be substantial.

  54. transition period by Tom · · Score: 1

    I was once in the opposite position: Having to take over. So maybe this is worth something to you:

    Situation: dot-com company, the 3rd party that had been running the servers decided they wanted to do something else and gave us notice within the contracted time frame. So we had about 3 months in total.

    What we did was make an agreement about a transition period. For 3 weeks, the two of us who had been selected (from an available pool of Unix admins of ... us 2, so it wasn't much of a selection) to take over went to work at the other company, sitting next to them, watching them, getting everything explained to us, making lots and lots of notes, and gradually taking over with them watching us.

    This kind of smooth transition - after the first week we started to do a few simple things, by the end of the second week we were doing most of the day-to-day things, and during the third week we ran a few of the more arcane scenarios (server crash, etc.) still with the old admins watching us - was the best experience in that area that I've had.

    This transition period was not at the very end of their contract, so even after we had taken over running things, they were available for questions and in case we ran into problems. Sure, the company was essentially paying them doing nothing for a few weeks, but the risk of not having them available in an emergency was bigger.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  55. Mindset Change by scubamage · · Score: 1

    I am making an assumption here, so if it doesn't apply, forgive me. Going forward one thing I would suggest is to shift your mindset more towards engineering, from operations. A lot of places don't draw a fine line - luckily here they do. Operations involves keeping servers humming along happily, their care and feeding. Engineering involves designing, documenting, and determining their configurations, and maintenance that is needed. But the cool thing is, operations guys can benefit from an engineering approach. Before any project gets implemented, you should have a design document - even if its informal. It seems like its a pain in the butt (especially when you find yourself writing a 400 page Detailed Design), but it really helps when A) people complain that they didn't know something was going to be affected by your project - you can point them towards their sign off in the design document, B) people don't know how something works - they can consult the documentation, C) It gives you the opportunity for peer review, avoiding those 1am "Crap, I didn't think of that!" moments, D) it serves as a record for when you inevitably forget something, E) things can keep running if you get hit by a bus tomorrow. This is extremely important in networking too, so it would be a good skill to have. For your current situation, I'd recommend you comb through old emails and write down every single project that they clue you in on. Go through your files too. Then try and document out things that the new admin may have questions about. You're going to miss some things, and don't get upset when he comes calling. You can't blame a lack of documentation on him.

  56. Too late by nine-times · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately, you're too late to do this properly. The best practices for leaving an IT position are practices that should have started when you took the position. At a high level, these should have included:

    Documenting your setup as you set it up.

    Documenting changes as you made them.

    Documenting common problems that you run across and how to fix them.

    Setting things up in the most common/default way unless you have a real reason for changing them

    Avoiding making too many tweaks (unless you have a big support staff, minor performance gains from tweaks aren't worth having a non-standard setup)

    If you've done a good job in your job, another decent IT person should be able to pick up your job at any time, without you having time to prepare. Because what if you get sick, or hit by a car, or fired, or whatever? Admittedly, I can't claim that I've always done that good of a job.

  57. As an ex-admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Change all the generic admin passwords before you leave. That way you can't be accused of interfering once you've left, and you're also less likely to be asked to get involved.

  58. Clean House by LordThyGod · · Score: 2

    Unless you are very sure you will continue to have an amicable relationship, I would suggest some kind of internal code audit in addition to having all passwords changed. My little personal hell went something like this in a small business situation (many years ago) ... I am abruptly terminated due to change in ownership and a brief transition period. 10 days later the main server crashed, and all the kings men could not put it back together again (due to really, really poor choices of who was hired). The company went several months without any of the company data (sales, etc). An insurance claim was filed that claimed I left behind a "bomb" that was mysteriously remotely triggered and physically destroyed hardware on one system, deleting all data irrecoverably, and destroyed all the backups (even though externally stored on removable media). In essence the entire system was inoperable and because it contained custom, in house code, could not be rebuilt. The insurance company took this hooey, paid the claim. Then sued me. Some time shortly after this, they replaced all the systems in the business (this was part of the claim I was sued for), and destroyed the original systems thus removing any evidence that might exonerate me. Clever stuff. It was not difficult to prove my innocence to all this utter nonsense, but it took several years and > $10K to get out from under it. Fun stuff.

  59. REQUIRED READING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I simply cannot fathom why someone hasn't already posted the instruction manual for what a system admin is supposed to do when he's on his way out the door. I mean, like, this is well-known stuff from the 1990's that everyone in IT is supposed to be familiar with.

  60. I really don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really don't get it. I used to work IT. I am still on good terms with every one of my old employers. Heck, just this morning I spent 10 minutes answering the new IT guys questions about a script I wrote and the reasons for it (this was written 7 years ago!).

    Now I am an admin at a school. We don't have a budget for IT, and it gets done mostly by volunteer parents working with me. With one exception, every volunteer that has ever worked IT still comes back regularly to help out, or at least for IT appreciation day (the last day of "no electronics" week, we have a lunch-in for our IT people, followed by a presentation on how kids did for a week without electronics, and a thank-you to our IT people)

    I just don't get the animosity...

  61. Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is IT. Your replacement will look at your work, declare it was done by someone without knowledge of proper practice, and spend the next stage of their career reinventing the wheel. They will use this opportunity to make it clear to their supervisor and peers that your were incompotent. Why would they ask *you* for assistance?

  62. Evil Bast^$d by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easy.. Delete the firmware on the routers so they are bricks once rebooted. Make all passowrds at least 15 to 20 characters long, encrypt everything and hide the passwords.

  63. Change Your Name and Move to Thailand by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Disappearing off the face of the planet always works well. Don't worry about them keeping their systems up, I'm sure they'll find some other poor sucker who knows enough about computers to take over. They always do, somehow...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  64. Giving notice by Beorytis · · Score: 1

    Don't take it personally. At my last job we had a similar policy, though it was somewhat less harsh in execution. The policy was there because of individuals who gave notice and then spent two weeks talking about how crappy the place was and how much better their new job was going to be.

  65. Leave the company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why I always leave the company to stop this crap.
    That why when they can't or won't read my documentation, I can charge them $!50/hr for after-hours support help. That forces the management to strongly consider whether they really want to bother me over any question or not.

    1 hour min per call. My goal **is** to screw them into never bothering me again.

    If you stay working for the same client or parent company (or college), then you are screwed.

    I was forced to leave NASA work after trading up to a better job. I even switched contracting companies AND client organizations, but the old NASA org was powerful enough to discover where I'd been assigned and got be assigned 20% to their project. In layman terms, I worked for FORD, left to work for Chevy and because both had US-Military contracts, I was forced to work on FORD 20% of my time.

    Since it wasn't working out for me, my only option was to completely leave - move 3 states away and switch industries.

    I suspect you should do the same.

  66. Good Luck. by gwn · · Score: 1

    No matter what you tell the new person you will still be the answer guy for months especially since you are still at the university.

    I gave my last employer almost two months notice and a handful of resumes of fully qualified people who were available to start immediately.

    The HR idiots didn't get someone hired and able to show up until my last day. I took that day off as my spouse had a bad feeling about me commuting to work that day.

    So the new guy got nothing, no logins, no script explanations, no documentation overview, nothing.

    I started getting calls at my new employer from "friends" that still worked there asking me to help the new guy before they strung him up in the server room. I helped for a bit then cut them all off. No money no answers.

  67. Accept It by assertation · · Score: 1

    Accept that people will come to you for help graciously.

    It is a small world and probably a bit smaller due to the economy. You are also staying within the same organization.

    You never know when someone you worked for in the past will be asked to give an opinion of you.

    Due your best to prepare for your departure. Be available after your departure as well.

    If people get excessive about asking you questions after you leave, respond slower and slower. They will get the message and they will not be sore about it.

  68. Quietly! by realsilly · · Score: 1

    Just do eet quietly.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
  69. Document Vigorously! by Edrick · · Score: 1

    I went through the same process about 2 years ago---and I recommend leaving as much documentation behind as possible. It's time consuming and can get big, but if you have an indexed document or documents explaining the steps needed to resolve common situations or handle regular tasks, then they'll be able to solve their problems without calling you every time. If they call you and the answer is in the documentation, you can then tell them to RTFM. If vendor documentation is good enough, then you can leave that behind as well for them. Either way, this puts much of the training on them, and not on you, since you only have a single day to explain everything that you've learned over the course of 5 years!

  70. Best Practice for leaving a Sysadmin job? by DrJimbo · · Score: 1

    Why, down and not across, of course.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  71. "Removing certain scripts" by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    Pray tell... why would you be doing this? Sounds like sabatoge to me.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  72. Sounds like it's.... by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

    Miller Time !

  73. Same Company, Different Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Since you are employed by the same people, just a different department, you are obligated to assist when called.
    IF you were leaving the company, you would also leave the obligation behind and have voluntary participation on support calls.

    Since they still pay you; you are still a "TEAM" member even though now you play on Defense insted of Offense. :)

  74. Similar problem, different circumstances by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2

    I retired 8 months ago. There was no need for me to do much of a handover since there were 5 other people doing the same job as me. We all covered for each other occasionally and theoretically any of us could step into the others shoes at a moments notice.

    Other than changing a couple of passwords and the code on the door and surrendering my key cards, my retirement should have consisted of nothing more than some cake, some punch, and me walking out the door.

    Since I left, I've been invited to every single office party. I've gone to a few; those people were my close associates for decades.

    I have not been to a single party where someone didn't pull me aside and ask me if I remembered an obscure password or the procedures for adding a new disk to an on-location encrypted storage cluster (It was a govt agency and we had the fairly unusual problem of being forced to leave sensitive information on machines where the physical space was on the premises of and accessible to the customer. Relationships with customers were generally adversarial. You get one guess which agency.) or something like that.

    I get the feeling the OP will be getting the occasional call two years from now. My advice is to stay on friendly terms and swap favors when you need them. We all do, from time to time.

  75. Two words by plopez · · Score: 1

    Scorched earth :)

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  76. Transition Meetings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use the Buckets method:

    Day 0 : Review the Bucket of information you're handing over like you described. Training/PW Changes/etc
    Day 5 : 1/2 HR meeting to review any open questions
    Day 10 : 15 Minute meeting to review any open questions
    Day 20 : 5 Minute meeting to review any open questions

    Time box it , and set the expectation that "Look, I have another job; I can't do both of our jobs... unless it's an emergency (Define emergency as something that will affect the safety of others or impact stock prices), put it on the list and we'll review it at our next transition meeting.

  77. Don't be a prick. by beaviz · · Score: 2

    The last time a went from one system administrator job to another, I proposed a very simple plan...

    I told my employer that if they would hire the new sysadm with a month overlap, I would do my best to train him in everything. I would even allow the new admin to call me from time to time over the next few months, if he panicked. I asked my new employee if they we're okay with me answering a few phone calls from time to time, they saw no problem at all in that.

    It all played out very well. They hired a new guy with a month of overlap as I proposed, but it didn't take longer than a week or two before he was up to speed. My employer suggested than in return for them to be able to call me in the future, I could take the last time off as paid vacation. Great!

    They eventually did call ~6 month later - not because they we're in panic, but they had a difficult problem that needed solving and they thought of me. I talked to my new employer, and we we're able to help them out within a few hours. Everyone was happy! :-)

    Moral of the story; don't be a prick. If you treat people nice and give them a fair way out, chances are the won't bother you.

  78. One Day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best way to transfer servers ist to have at least 2 weeks of working together. By this you will manage to transfer about 80-90% of duties. What's left is just specialities and these you can write down while he takes care of server for these 2 weeks.

  79. Passing on administration? by dgharmon · · Score: 1

    "Recently, I was given the chance to move from servers to networking .. I'm trying to cover all my bases so any excuse my replacement has to call me is seen as nothing but laziness or incompetence. I am required to give him a day of training to show him where everything is on the servers"

    You have got to be kidding me, a single `day of training' to bring him up-to-speed on server maintenance, either him or both of you must be in the genius class. From what I've seen, there isn't any practical difference between server admin and networking, as the IT techies are required to fix it, whatever the problem.

    --
    AccountKiller
  80. Position dedundancy? by labradort · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised your employer and boss allowed this to happen.

    Have you ever gone on vacation for 2 weeks? How did they cope? Just stop everything?

    Many large institutions adopt practices to ensure they don't run into bad situations like one person who knows everything in his head and then leaves. Just having a second person trained (often cross over training) along with some notes helps cover the basis. Ideally, one would document everything, but you should be able to assume some knowledge of anyone taking over a sysadmin position, or at least rely on generic information common to all usage guiding them along.

    It should be part of your tasks to document the practices you keep, and methods used to keep things going, or update apps and services. If you are not somehow sharing this information and only keeping it to yourself, then you are not doing the job properly. Any job in IT should be done with some bare minimum of docs on how things are set up. Even for your own use in the case someone asks for something you have not had to touch in 2 years.

    You are asking a question you should have asked on day 1 of your Admin job. It should carry over to your Network Admin job or your employer will face the same issue there when you leave, which will certainly happen some day, one way or another.

  81. Give Nothing! Take Everything! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And listen to the lamentations of their women!

    Give nothing but the basics to your successor. That way you can charge contracting fees.

  82. I know what I did... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I left my last job, I shredded a book of passwords people might have needed in the future and took a copy of all the Microsoft enterprise and Adobe keys we had.

  83. Lucky me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fortunately almost every business I have ever worked for went bankrupt shortly after my departure. Is that something I should put on my resume'

  84. Bolt Cutters by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    and accidentally unplug everything from its wires

  85. Just did this today actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today I left a network manager position that required many other tasks that were well beyond what my scope of work was supposed to be. I think most of it was because they tried to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of me. I want to think that they really appreciated me for what I did for them in the almost 6 years I spent there.

    The thing today that reminded me why I was leaving the company was, after all the hugs and goodbyes, was that they were opening up another branch office today. I was tasked to build out the workstation, server, and network for it. Granted I was mostly supervising a bunch of green backs from a company they decided to outsource too (in order to replace me and another 2 guys under myself) tasked to take notes and gather as much info from me as possible before I left. Eh, if you can imagine the weirdness I felt knowing they were attempting to squeeze the life out of me until I finally left...

    Granted, the compensation and other things led me to leave, but I always documented everything I did/made/edited/etc. This made it easy to transition to the outsource company. I merely gave them access to my documentation of systems, configs, inventory databases, etc. Basically, gave them the keys to the kingdom, told them to change the lock, and left. ...and now, right now, I feel like I left on a good note while getting ultimate revenge simultaneously. They are in knowingly inferior hands and will suffer for many years to come. If they would have simply just heeded our salary demands, it would have saved them a ton of money and time in the long run. Oh well, because now I can pursue my interests as a systems engineer :)

  86. Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

    When I read the line you quoted I thought of notification scripts of disk usage etc and a spaghetti of "backup" scripts to ensure that important data is on a couple of different physical servers at once so that minor problems don't require loading from a real backup. Such things can grow over time and can typically be replaced by a few less simple scripts to make it simpler for somebody else. Then there's completely unimportant stuff (eg. I've got one that downloads a sattelite weather photo and sets that as my desktop). So yes, it it was me then when I go I'll be stopping scripts and removing scripts.
    I'm interested as to why you immediately jumped to the conclusion that something nasty is going on and that the above poster is stupid enough to let us know about it. Are you projecting somebody else or yourself onto the submitter?

    1. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Please explain in detail why one would want to stop and/or remove "notification scripts of disk usage etc and a spaghetti of "backup" scripts to ensure that important data is on a couple of different physical servers at once so that minor problems don't require loading from a real backup".

      By stopping and/or removing the scripts you list, the organization would then be exposed to possible outages and/or data loss. If the submitter was doing his job properly, he would have been maintaining those scripts and they would have been "replaced by a few less simple scripts to make it simpler" for himself or someone else.

      The only example in your post was the desktop background script which should be on a workstation or desktop which would go with him to his next assignment. You are a sysadmin and you have a script on a server that downloads a photo and sets it as your desktop on said server? Why are you using a production server as workstation? Are you arrogant, stupid, or just incompetent?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    2. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Please explain in detail why one would want to stop and/or remove "notification scripts of disk usage etc and a spaghetti of "backup"

      If you are unable to work it out from that portion you've quoted then your job won't come within a mile of ever having to worry about it one way or another.

      Why are you using a production server as workstation?

      Why are you assuming it's a production server? Other machines can have scriptable actions as well, and the example above is of a very trivial and unimportant script PURELY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT SOME SCRIPTS ARE NOT IMPORTANT AND CAN BE REMOVED. Obviously it's on my desktop machine. Are you looking to win some award for missing a point as badly as possible?
      From the insults you've thrown around there not merely in ignorance but due to a lack of bothering to understand what you've read I'd say there's a very good reason why you get modded down right there. If you are in a habit of doing that you don't need a "mod stalker" following you around, merely random mods that come across such meritless insults and react appropriately.

    3. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      And, your desktop machine will go with you to another group when you change groups in the organization, such as the submitter is doing, thus invalidating your entire comment.

      The only person who missed the point is you, you arrogant, ignorant asshole. The point is that if they are on his workstation, there is no need to stop or remove them as they will go with him to his new assignment as he is only moving departments.

      And you didn't even begin to address the fact that stopping and/or removing the scripts you described would disable monitoring and backup.

      You deserve to be insulted. You are desperately trying to justify something that cannot be justified and making up idiotic circumstances in the attempt. You didn't read, or at least understand, the submitted post or my comment. And, you implied that I must be doing something wrong because I know when something suspect is going on. Then , you have the nerve to say I am tossing out "meritless[sic] insults". You don't want to be called an asshole, then I suggest you stop making implied insults and if you don't like my direct insults don't make implied insults, you whiny bitch.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    4. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      People do things in different ways and a lot of scripts are merely for convenience instead of part of production. My notification emails are somebody else's Inbox full of shit. Dead ends stick around until you clean them up. Sometimes that's all it is instead of some movie inspired view with heroes and villians.
      What do you think we do all day when things are quiet? The way to save time later or estimate how long things will take is to try out implementations of promising methods and see if they will fit into your workplace. A lot of them are either dead ends or too time consuming to look at on a casual basis so you end up with a lot of stuff that just does not matter in terms of production even if it's used to pick the winners that do go into production.

      Sorry kid, you've wandered into a discussion akin to people discussing how best to load a two person sea kayak for bad weather when you are not even sure if water is wet.
      All you can expect is being ignored or increasing amounts of patronising put downs each time you suggest that water isn't wet, but I hope I've given you something more than that even though this was all kicked off by a somewhat paranoid "whiney bitch" post from yourself.

    5. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      And, your desktop machine will go with you to another group when you change groups in the organization

      That is a very unusual assumption to make which once again tells me more about yourself than the subject. It tells me that you have only worked in places with a shared pool of assets so cannot understand that a lot of places cling onto whatever assets they have and don't let other places have them.
      The above poster didn't write that and from my experience I'd see it as very unlikely.

    6. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      No, it is not an unusual assumption as that is what has happened at every single company I have worked at and every single company every person I know has ever worked at.

      Oh, and you are the one who brought up having shit run on one's workstation as an excuse for stopping and/or removing scripts so what the poster above wrote is irrelevant. Seeing as your posts show me you have very little experience or at least have no clue how to properly do your job, I double your ability to make judgments as to the likely hood of events.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    7. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Oh, and you are the one

      What's that bullshit? I call you out on some paranoid accusations, hold a mirrror up to you and you blame your whiney crap on me?

      run on one's workstation

      It has become very clear that you are considering a single server environment and have very little clue about what you are commenting on - hence the very naive assumptions that you've probably pulled out of a movie somewhere.

      Seeing as your posts show me you have very little experience or at least have no clue how to properly do your job

      Considering you have no fucking idea what my job is that is once again proving my point.

    8. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      What's that bullshit? I call you out on some paranoid accusations, hold a mirrror up to you and you blame your whiney crap on me?

      First, let us actually look at what I said, shithead:

      Oh, and you are the one who brought up having shit run on one's workstation as an excuse for stopping and/or removing scripts

      Oh, look, it looks like you are taking things out of context to try to score points. Now, let's look at what you said, shithead:

      the example above is of a very trivial and unimportant script PURELY TO DEMONSTRATE THAT SOME SCRIPTS ARE NOT IMPORTANT AND CAN BE REMOVED. Obviously it's on my desktop machine.

      Hey, what do you know, I was right and you are lying piece of shit.

      It has become very clear that you are considering a single server environment and have very little clue about what you are commenting on

      That in response to

      run on one's workstation

      Please explain in detail how one having a workstation equals a "single server environment"? You do know the difference between a workstation and a server, right? Apparently not. That, or you are an idiot how uses a server for his workstation. Which is it, dumbass?

      Considering you have no fucking idea what my job is that is once again proving my point.

      You are right, I don't know what your job is. I just assumed that because you decided to comment on proper system administration of production servers, you actually had a job doing that. So, why don't you tell us what your job is and how that job qualifies you to make statements about proper system administration of servers and server farms? Or, you can just STFU.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    9. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Considering you are the one doing all the attacks from a position of ignorance why didn't you take my and now YOUR OWN advice and be quiet yourself.
      And now you've flown off the handle at me for calling you out on your paranoid delusions and accusations above.
      Here's a tip kid - randomly accusing people of crimes based on nothing but what is in your own head is normally considered very rude. Your post picking on the submitter and by your wide net just about anyone that works with computer networks was way out of line.

    10. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      What's the matter asshole? Why don't you answer my question? Why don't you tell us all what your job is and how it qualifies you to make statements about proper system administration? My guess is that you are either unemployed or flipping burgers.

      Face it, shithead, you have proven that you aren't qualified to say shit. You spouted off and now you are slapped down, dogshit.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    11. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1

      As part of my job I run a computational cluster of 50 nodes, some file servers, and look after workstations at times but that's none of your fucking business. Fuck you for attacking the messenger instead of the message. I'm sure you'll find some invented fault in that tiny bit of extra information you now have and you are in no way qualified to have the merest fucking clue as to whether I can do my job or not based on what little information you have, just as I have no way of saying the same about you.
      All I know about you is the personality flaws you have seen fit to show off, such as accusing the article submitter of a crime. If you say you were not doing it in ignorance then you owe the submitter an apology and you owe me one as well from your petty bullying after I charitably assumed you were just making mistakes in ignorance.

    12. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit. That, or your boss is a fucking idiot for allowing you to run anything because your sysadmin skills are obviously shit. I suggest you go back and read your original post, dipshit. You posts support unprofessional, incompetent, possibly unethical and possibly criminal behavior, yet you completely ignore that. Seeing as you seem to think such behavior is acceptable, I have little doubt you defend Terry Childs.

      I don't owe the submitter or you anything. I pointed out a very reasonable inference. Then, with no evidence or knowledge of me, said I was projecting my own action on the submitter. When I showed the flaws in your logic, you tried to change the argument and included things not in the post.

      So, you can shut your hole and go back to your mother's basement.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    13. Re:Well, that tells me a lot about you by dbIII · · Score: 1
      This entire thread kinds of proves my point doesn't it? Wild accusations from nowhere on a strawman out of your own head which you are pretending is somebody else. Now you are dragging up Terry Childs as if all of us types that work with computers are just like him, how low are you going to go with this and why do you hate an entire profession?
      Do you mind if I link to this thread next time I see you going after somebody like a rabid dog? It will save a lot of time if they see what they are dealing with.

      I pointed out a very reasonable inference. Then, with no evidence or knowledge of me, said I was projecting my own action on the submitter.

      HOW BADLY CAN YOU MISS THE POINT? With "no evidence or knowledge of" the above poster it wasn't coming from there, so was being projected from somewhere. I asked you a question as to where this accusation of criminal behaviour was coming from.
      So it's OK for you to accuse somebody of a crime but not OK for somebody to DARE question you and ask WTF such a serious accusation comes from.
      Are you ever going to grow up?

  87. done this more than a few times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i usually give 30 days notice
    then hire a replacement quickly.
    i typically end up doing 1 week of pair-sysadminning and running through all the undocumented processes
    on to the next gig..

  88. Duh ... Pretend you're the new admin .... by fygment · · Score: 1

    ... what would _you_ like to know?

    Or if you are just worried about completely covering your ass ... can't be done. If you've done nothing illegal, move on with a clear conscience. If you have done something illegal, well sooner or later it will catch up with you. In the mean time, move on with a less than clear conscience.

    Or is the truth that you've just been tasked with producing a 'Company Sys Admin Turnover Process' ? In which case, ask /. if someone has one they'd be willing to share.

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  89. I quit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I left my last It job where I was overworked and under paid I took all my vacation. Then on the day I was supposed to come back I sent an email to everyone in the company with the subject line "I quit" and a list of all accounts I had access to recommending they change the password right away.

  90. RUN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very quickly... they should have better training, cross-training and communication at the organization.

  91. Also by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The strawman "lie" you've fabricated yourself from quotes out of context is amusing but entirely pointless since nobody else is reading this shit and such petty bullying that relies on somebody forgetting what they've said or written isn't going to work even on the weak willed when their previous words are on the page.
    Don't you think it's time to stop whining about how you have a right to pick on others but not be mildly criticised yourself? Shouldn't you be apologising to the article submitter and everyone who may have read your words that works with computer networks right about now?

    1. Re:Also by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      No, I provided the context of the quotes. Now you are just outright lying like the little whiny bitch you are. I work with computers, I have already said so. What hasn't been said is what YOU do, which tells me you are not qualified to say shit, fuckwad.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.