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North Korea Agrees To Suspend Nuclear Activities

Hugh Pickens writes writes "In a breakthrough in negotiations with the secretive communist nation the Guardian reports that North Korea has agreed to suspend nuclear activities and to a moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests. According to U.S. State department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland, North Korea has agreed to allow International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors to verify and monitor the moratorium on uranium enrichment and confirm disablement of its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon. In return for the moratorium on nuclear activities at this key site, the United States has agreed to finalize a package of 240,000 metric tons of nutritional assistance to North Korea. There will be intensive monitoring to assure the delivery of such assistance is made to those in need, and not diverted to the military or government elites."

59 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Still in violation by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In 1992 North Korea agreed to keep the peninsula free of nuclear weapons.

    But let's be optimistic, maybe this time around the inspectors will be allowed to do inspections.

    1. Re:Still in violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In 1992 North Korea agreed to keep the peninsula free of nuclear weapons.

      and in return the U.S., Japan and S. Korea would build light water reactors in N. Korea. The construction stalled and the rest is history. It is not just about whether N.Korea allows inspectors. There is no free lunch. N. Korea won't give it up without rewards.

    2. Re:Still in violation by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Next time they want something, the inspectors are kicked out and more nuke and missile tests.

      Essentially, we bribed them with food to keep quiet through an election year. Nice.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    3. Re:Still in violation by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Alternatively, we sent desperately needed food to people who are starving to death by the tens of thousands and got a temporary concession out of the North Korean government in the process. And don't tell me it just supports the dictatorship either, do you really think the people of North Korea are about to rise up and overthrow the Kim family business? It's not going to happen until something major goes down, either a military coupe from within or a 2 week war with one of their neighbors, neither of which will be effected by us giving them food aide.

    4. Re:Still in violation by HBI · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Starvation is a great motivator. Feeding the people extends the regime's lifespan. Stalin feared famine. Napoleon understood this. The Romans understood it, too.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    5. Re:Still in violation by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Informative

      Stalin used famine to crush those who opposed him. He caused one! Holodomor not ringing a fucking bell for you?

      North Korea saw true famine in the 90s, it only made their people more sure that the west was the evil empire. Famine only proves to the people of North Korea that we are their enemies and only the Kims are keeping them alive.

    6. Re:Still in violation by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      You don't know about the North Korean Famine?
      The "Arduous March" is not something you are familier with, but you think we should take your opinion seriously?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

      Famine is not new to North Korea, it will not topple their regime.

    7. Re:Still in violation by Bardwick · · Score: 2

      By most accounts, that food went to feed the military, not the civilians. I'm with you though, no chance NK citizens will go against thier government.

    8. Re:Still in violation by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So genocide is a relatively small thing?
      Google Holodomor. 2+ million people died, at the very least. The state prevented food aid from reaching these people. Even the US govt recognizes this as an act of genocide.

    9. Re:Still in violation by Desler · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's so cute that you think they'll will actually use this food for anything but feeding the military and the government people or to sell it for money. You do realize that dictators routinely lie about these things, right?

    10. Re:Still in violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's a little tidbit from Slate: ... he seized all the grain and food that was grown in 1932 and 1933 to feed the rest of Russia and raise foreign capital, and in doing so left the entire Ukrainian people with nothing to eat—except, sometimes, themselves. ...

      One more horror story. About a group of women who sought to protect children from cannibals by gathering them in an "orphanage" in the Kharkov region:

              "One day the children suddenly fell silent, we turned around to see what was happening, and they were eating the smallest child, little Petrus. They were tearing strips from him and eating them. And Petrus was doing the same, he was tearing strips from himself and eating them, he ate as much as he could. The other children put their lips to his wounds and drank his blood. We took the child away from their hungry mouths and we cried."

      If interested, read the whole article at http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_spectator/2011/02/stalins_cannibals.single.html

    11. Re:Still in violation by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      Stalin feed the Russian population. His enforcement of collectivization starved the *Ukranian* population. The ethnic Ukranians have not forgotten the Holodomor even if the Russians (and interestingly enough, the Russian Ukranians I've come across) are taught to dispute the Holodomor (the usual story, when you get to re-write the textbooks you can say anything, just how glorious life was under Stalin [not!]).

    12. Re:Still in violation by KhabaLox · · Score: 2

      Holodomor not ringing a fucking bell for you?

      That's the holodeck program Wesley used to re-enact the Lord of the Rings, right? I thought the Arwen sub-routine went a bit too far.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    13. Re:Still in violation by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      North Korea isn't being denied or dictated anything. Its being offered a deal. If they don't want 240,000 tons of food they don't have to accept it. They could continue to spend their money on nuclear research and ignore their starving citizens.

    14. Re:Still in violation by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      fuck man, thanks for the nightmares. i wish i hadn't read that.

      happy to be living in a rich country...

    15. Re:Still in violation by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      happy to be living in a rich country...

      It isn't a question of wealth. It is a question of being ruled by cruel, sadistic despot with nearly unlimited power and a cult of personality - the very thing that seems to be a regular outcome of Communist governments.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    16. Re:Still in violation by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Among other things it's a capital crime for the older citizens to tell the younger ones what it used to be like.

    17. Re:Still in violation by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      That is quite chilling. I'll add to the pot. (A tip of the hat to you, sir.)

      . . . In recent years, I have spent many hours interviewing refugees from North Korea, including some who escaped from re-education camps. Their accounts of prison life accord with a recent assessment by the U.S. State Department. Conditions are brutal and life threatening, according to the February report. "Torture occurred," the report notes matter-of-factly. Refugees have spoken to me of newborns separated from their mothers and left to die.

      North Koreans can end up in re-education camps for such crimes as listening to foreign radio broadcasts, secretly practicing a religion, or crossing the border to China in search of food. Inmates are subjected to forced labor and are required to memorize political tracts. They receive little food, no medical care and sometimes serve multiyear terms wearing the clothes in which they arrived at camp. I interviewed a woman who had been wearing high heels when she was arrested and had to bind her feet in rags when those wore out. Many prisoners die of abuse or malnutrition.

      Political prisoners are held under even harsher conditions in kwan li so penal camps. The Committee for Human Rights in North Korea estimates the number of political prisoners at 200,000; the State Department puts it at between 150,000 and 200,000. Political offenses include such crimes as sitting on a newspaper that contains a picture of dictator Kim Jong Il. Punishment is often collective and can extend to three generations of the offender's entire family.

      Shin Dong-Hyok may be the only person to have escaped from a kwan li so camp. Mr. Shin, now in his mid-20s and living in Seoul, was born and spent the first 22 years of his life in Camp No. 14, a so-called total control facility. In an interview at The Wall Street Journal's headquarters in New York last year, Mr. Shin spoke of growing up. His formal education was limited to the rudiments of reading and writing. Because political prisoners are usually incarcerated for life, the camps don't bother with political re-education; Mr. Shin said he didn't even know who Kim Jong Il was until after his escape. Nor did he understand the concept of money until, after his escape, he walked through a market and noticed bits of colored paper being exchanged for food.

      At 12 or 13 -- he is unsure of the year in which he was born -- he was forced to watch the executions of his mother, who was hanged, and his brother, who was shot. They had attempted to escape. Hoping to pry information out of him -- Mr. Shin had none -- camp officials bound the boy's hands and feet, embedded a hook in his groin and dangled him over a fire. In the Journal's conference room, Mr. Shin pulled up a leg of his trousers to show me the scars. . . . -- Inside North Korea's Gulag

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    18. Re:Still in violation by MechaStreisand · · Score: 2

      Congratulations, sir, on posting the single most horrifying thing I've ever read.

      --
      Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
  2. Suspend not end by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 2

    Played this game before. As soon as the food arrives they will go back to business as usual. Maybe pump a few more billion counterfeit $100 bills on the European markets.

    1. Re:Suspend not end by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. Once again, the West plays grocery store to NK, propping up the dictatorship so they can continue development of nuclear weapons, sell military tech to our enemies, shell South Korea and oppress their own people to the point of starvation. The phrase rinse and repeat comes to mind.

    2. Re:Suspend not end by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only way keeping food aide out of North Korea is going to take down the dictatorship is if so many North Korean civilians die of starvation that there aren't enough peasants left to support the military. The upper levels just don't care if their people die, and the common people are too overworked, hungry, brainwashed, and outnumbered to even consider rising up in rebellion.

    3. Re:Suspend not end by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The lack of food giveaways may not bring down the NK dictatorship, but the presence of the aid helps it. Why pay to help a government that is so immutably hostile to us? It does nothing to further our interests. We get no real concessions, just lip service until they have extracted more tribute from us. This is not theoretical, we have been down this road many times before and NK has proven themselves reliably dishonest.

      NK is China's client state, let China feed their populace.

    4. Re:Suspend not end by PRMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a new leader. A goodwill gesture toward getting him to be friends with the international community is not a lost cause. He is not his father and may decide that he would rather move in the direction that China has moved. This is a good move for the US to make.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    5. Re:Suspend not end by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a new leader. A goodwill gesture toward getting him to be friends with the international community is not a lost cause.

      I like your optimism. Mine is exhausted by decades of history on this issue, but I salute your willingness to try again.

    6. Re:Suspend not end by dave420 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Decades of history of NK under Jong-un? Interesting.

    7. Re:Suspend not end by SnEptUne · · Score: 2

      You sound like bringing down dictators is a good thing. People in authority are anointed, and with power comes responsibility. One may argue that someone may not be doing their jobs well enough, but why this zeal for outing someone because of a label of dictator? Dictator or not, as long as they are doing reasonbly enough for their own people (including military), they are good government.

  3. Been there, done that by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm more than a little Tired of reading about all these triumphant negotiation sessions over the years where NK promises to be a good boy just long enough to get the trade concessions, only to violate the agreement shortly there after. This is like the third or forth president in a row that has been duped by these tactics. As each agreement falls apart, there are the usual dire warnings about "grave consequences". These are the code words by which the US State Department looks tough, but signals the other side that the only "grave" involved is the one in which the whole issue will be buried as soon as the grandstanding is over with.

    Son of Whack-Job, and Grandson of Whack-a-Doodle has absolutely no incentive to honor this agreement any more than his predecessors did the prior ones. However, a certain government leader needs a feather in his re-election hat. So we get another useless agreement with a perpetual liar state.

     

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    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:Been there, done that by tomhath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh for some mod points...

      Yea, Six Party talks, humanitarian assistance, blah, blah, blah. Instead of giving them the reward ahead of time, how about an agreement where they have to do something first and get the carrot afterward?

    2. Re:Been there, done that by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of oppressed, hungry people will get some food to eat. It will be like Christmas for them.

      Isn't that a good enough reason to allow yourself to be "duped" once in a while...?

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Been there, done that by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      The plain fact of the matter is that people are starving in North Korea, not a handful, not by the hundreds, but by the thousands or tens of thousands. I'm well away that giving food aid is seen by some as supporting the regime but in all honesty I don't see the people of North Korea rising up to overthrow their oppressors in any event. Given the choice between letting tens of thousands of people die so that we can look tough or sending some food... I'm gonna send the food. I may as well try to get some concessions, even temporary ones, as part of the bargain.

    4. Re:Been there, done that by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 2

      We sat to the side for decades upon decades until the people of Libya gave us the choice of allowing them to be slaughtered or giving minimal aid that allows for self-governance? I think he got a pretty good deal out of it, really.

    5. Re:Been there, done that by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lot of oppressing, poorly-fed soldiers will get more food to eat plus some for their relatives. It will be like Christmas for them as they get to use the extra food to reward their favorites.

      Isn't that a good enough reason to allow yourself to be "duped" once in a while...?

      FTFY

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:Been there, done that by ArsonSmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is like coming to a conclusion with an abusive husband that you'll supply his wife with band-aids.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    7. Re:Been there, done that by icebike · · Score: 2

      A lot of oppressed, hungry people will get some food to eat. It will be like Christmas for them.

      Isn't that a good enough reason to allow yourself to be "duped" once in a while...?

      Sure. Humanitarian aid is fine.

      Just don't sell it as a nuclear agreement.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    8. Re:Been there, done that by khallow · · Score: 2

      Let's not go crazy here. They wouldn't agree to that sort of thing, because that would mean they'd have to do something.

    9. Re:Been there, done that by icebike · · Score: 2

      Not this son.

      That was the other son, the one that was passed over for the throne, -, er, ah, chairmanship.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    10. Re:Been there, done that by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      Actually much of the aid food is distributed to the elites for loyalty, hoarded by the North Korean Army and Secret Police units, or sold over the border in China for luxuries for the elites. There is some benefit for giving food aid but there is no doubt it is propping up the evil North Korean government and prolonging the misery of the citizens. As harsh as it is to say, the strategic view would be to not give the aid *until* the North Koreans had proven they'd given up nuclear arms - not give the aid first (which has been shown for the last three decades to be a waste of time; the citizens still don't get enough and the government always reneges on its promises; and still sends saboteurs and assassins into South Korea on a routine basis - did you know that?).

  4. As Usual... by JeanCroix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. Could the change in leadership really amount to actual change this quickly?

    1. Re:As Usual... by JeanCroix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All that may be true, but I think the bigger question would be about his father's cronies who are still there. Just because he's the new leader, it doesn't necessarily follow that he immediately has all of his father's power and influence. And if he moves too quickly away from the policies of the past, I'm sure it could put him at risk within his own power structure. NK is about to enter "interesting times," for better or worse.

  5. Three biggest lies ... by jamesl · · Score: 2

    I'm from corporate and I'm here to help.
    The check's in the mail.
    Korea agrees to suspend nuclear activities.

  6. In related news... by TheDan666 · · Score: 2

    North Korea describes fantastic bridge you can buy.

  7. Not that they needed nukes to begin with... by l00sr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unlike, say, Iran, NK doesn't actually need nukes to level its sworn enemy. It would probably be faster and more convenient to just level Seoul with conventional artillery. Is there any doubt that their nuclear program is just a bartering commodity for aid?

    1. Re:Not that they needed nukes to begin with... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      Unlike, say, Iran, NK doesn't actually need nukes to level its sworn enemy. It would probably be faster and more convenient to just level Seoul with conventional artillery. Is there any doubt that their nuclear program is just a bartering commodity for aid?

      Seoul, yes. Large SK and US troop concentrations farther south, not so much. It's always difficult to understand the thinking of a government as notably insane as NK's, but I think there is a definite miltary aspect to their nuclear program as well as the obvious "bargaining chip" aspect. If NK ever does develop an arsenal of nukes that can be carried by SRBM -- and by "arsenal" I mean ten or twenty warheads -- they could, to put it mildly, seriously impede the ability of UN forces to operate on the peninsula.

      This of course assumes that the US answer to the destruction of Kunsan AB, for example, wouldn't just be to make Pyongyang and all the major NK bases go up in a flash. And I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  8. Kim Jong-un by PPH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You get one chance to keep your word. This is it.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  9. It's either this or send in the Marines by Darth_brooks · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Talk is cheap, but at least it's cheaper than body bags. I do like that even the most official statements on this seem to be the equivalent of "Welp, here we go again."

    “The United States still has profound concerns regarding North Korean behavior across a wide range of areas, but today’s announcement reflects important, if limited, progress in addressing some of these,” said State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland.

    Those words were echoed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who called the agreement a “modest first step in the right direction.”

    I think that's Pol-speak for "We've played this game before, we know how it ends, but what's the alternative?"

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  10. Re:So? by gnick · · Score: 4, Funny

    North Korea still the best Korea!

    No way - North Korea has no Seoul.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  11. Why is the USA footing the bill? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It seems like the USA is always picking up the tab on stuff like this. Why not NATO?

  12. Re:Metric 'Tons'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, most people with a sound knowledge of English know that A) a ton and a tonne are not the same thing and B) the E in English should be capitalized.

  13. Re:China by icebike · · Score: 2

    Actually, China has been feeding NK for 10s years. It dropped somewhat in 2008 due to shortages in China, (in fact China has started importing grain from Kazakhstan in 2010). Russia, on the other hand has stepped up their humanitarian aid to NK in recent years.

    NK provides the crazy uncle that China needs to cover some of the things it does in regard to Tibet, Taiwan, and Iran. China is not going to get on board with any program of regime change in NK.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  14. Re:Metric 'Tons'? by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Funny

    You misspelled "megagram."

  15. Missing the point by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 2

    Somewhere in the insane ramblings of the original Kim was the comment that no great breakthrough can come without great struggle.

    Couple this ideology with the total worship of self-reliance and you can see where this is going:
    NK is too proud to ask for food from outsides (it would defeat their total self-reliance) even though it needs it, instead it rattles the sabre and makes threats, then 'agrees' to back down if the West will provide food.

    Wash, rinse, repeat. It all comes together if you keep the first fact in mind. This is the way of NK and will be until the gov't is removed from power.

    --
    So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
  16. Re:Metric 'Tons'? by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

    You mean mebigram???

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  17. So inexpensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What amazes me about this is that it is so inexpensive for the US. Wheat is less than 300 per metric ton so this is only about $72,000,000. A round off error in the US debt and less than the negotiations probably cost.

  18. Re:China by VikingOfNorth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    NK provides the crazy uncle that China needs to cover some of the things it does in regard to Tibet, Taiwan, and Iran. China is not going to get on board with any program of regime change in NK.

    I know this isn't of much value since I can't quote my references, but I remember hearing/reading about this particular matter and it actually seems China is getting slightly frustrated with its "crazy uncle". It makes sense, actually: NK requires a lot of material aid yet provides very little of concrete value in return. The only thing China really wants from NK is to act as a strong buffer against the capitalistic influence of SK, and by now, I suppose they've realized that this particular concern is rather insignificant. If NK becomes even more dependant on Chinese aid, it's possible that even China will have a change of mind.

    It's also hard to believe that China is particularly happy about a "new" nuclear power rising very close to it's borders, especially since the ruling despot family has proven to be very eager to test its arsenal every once in a while.

    --
    "I'm just here for the achievements"
  19. Food is fungible. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2

    So we send more food to North Korea, the military and elites get bigger rations.

    While the exact food supplied as aid may not be going to the military/elites the food aid would allow them to divert other supplies elsewhere.

    Food aid is a great idea though, it is one of the most economically damaging things you can do to a country. Start dumping cheap/free food on their markets, put all the local farmers out of business. Farmers and families become disgruntled, have no income or work. The land degrades and the country becomes completely dependant on external aid. The next step is to provide weapons to the groups of ex farmers.

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    Deleted
    1. Re:Food is fungible. by nahdude812 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Start dumping cheap/free food on their markets, put all the local farmers out of business.

      Those don't exist in DPRK, at least not legally. The "Market" was extinguished in the 60's. Almost everything you get comes from the government, and money is almost symbolic. Until the later part of the 80's peasants were not even permitted a private garden for producing their own food.

      Also, only about 1/5 of North Korea is arable. This is a country which falls far short of being able to produce enough food to feed its people even under ideal circumstances. Since most farms of any significant size are government owned or controlled, and those working them are not guaranteed any share of what they produce. Aid to the people is a good thing, and trying to spin it otherwise is disingenuous.

  20. Re:China by icebike · · Score: 2

    The only thing China really wants from NK is to act as a strong buffer against the capitalistic influence of SK,

    And a sock puppet to export nuclear and missile technology to Syria, Iran, Hamas, Burma and probably a few other places.

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    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  21. Don't forget Fatty Kim went to University in the W by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    For all the jaded souls who think there is no hope and this will degenerate like the last time. Fatty Kim is a product of Western universities. He attended school in Europe (Switzerland I believe) - he has experienced western lifestyle and no doubt sees his own people not having the same lifestyle.

    He's unlikely to want to give up power- but he may just have been infected by enough free-thought whilst in Europe to legitimately want change. There is hope that Fatty Kim is not just a younger, hungrier, clone of his father.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch