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Sony To Delete Virtual Goods
New submitter dommer2029 writes "A few years back, Sony bought up a small company running an online collectible card game called Star Chamber: The Harbinger Saga. Two days ago, they announced that the servers will be shutting down on March 29, 2012. All of our virtual collectible cards? Poof. It's not surprising — the user base is small and dwindling — but it's proof that any server-based digital goods you 'own' can vanish on a corporation's whim."
Of course the user base for star chamber is dwindling. There hasn't been an expansion since 2007. Collectible games need expansions to survive. Otherwise people get bored and move on.
Sony Online Entertainment. Where games go to die.
...when you take them from my cold, dead hands!
I'm all for Sony bashing, but I also hate whiney nerds. So... fuck both of you
... you'll be able to trade in the collectibles for rootkit'd CDs.
At first glance I was going to say "after XCP, OtherOS, and leaving unencrypted CC info on an internet facing database, what did you expect?" but on re-reading TFS, the data being deleted wasn't collected by Sony.
Maybe I should point out that "buying" data is stupid, you should buy media? Or that trusting ANY corporation to not be evil is stupid?
Free Martian Whores!
Virtual Collectable Cards. Did someone think the servers would be online forever so they could 'keep' these bits of data?
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
"What kind of world do we live in where a man would take another manâ(TM)s battle ostrich?" Sheldon lamented. What kind of world indeed.
Brought to you by the virtual goods of the Sony BMG Rootkit!
...still trust gigabytes of data to corporate cloud storage like iCloud and Azure, even if they know the risks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_storage
All Sony need to do to make this right is to move the data to virtual servers (as in: "you can't see them... they're virtual!")
Precisely why I don't trust Amazon's (or Apple's, or anyone else's) cloud to store books, music, movies, or other media that I purchase.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
I don't like Sony any more than most people here, but let's face it. Online game servers shutting down are bound to happen eventually. Accordingly, it's implied that purchases made in virtual worlds won't last beyond the life of the world itself. There's no need to spin this story into Sony taking candy from babies.
Evil incarnate. More evil than Oracle and MS combined.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
They had better hurry and print them out!
Paul: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened! - Dune
How much does it cost to keep the servers running? Surely it can't be a lot if not many people use it and they don't update often.
How many sales will Sony lose on other products now they have annoyed another few thousand users?
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Sony should email people their virtual property.
---
Please find attached your items.
0x208910812
0x291919111
0x233311102
http://www.technollama.co.uk/dutch-supreme-court-declares-virtual-goods-are-property
If there are Dutch users, is this considered a "taking of property"?
The problem of being at the corporate whim is why I hate this sort of stuff. Apply the same thought to cloud servers and DRM that requires checkins. Corporations shut down projects and go out of business. You lose. They also simply stop supporting hardware and software. Loss of legacy stuff is a growing problem. Apple is being very bad about this.
forgive me for actually reading TFA.....
this is only one of four games being shut down by sony this month:
Cosmic Rift
Infantry
Star Chamber: The Harbinger Saga
EverQuest Online Adventures
as someone who has already been burned by online purchases going poof in the night.. i do feel for the people who have paid-into these and have built-up their accounts over the years.
these things are expected to happen with games that require publisher-run servers to function (the lack of that requirement is one reason why counter strike is still going after more than 12 years)..
but come on sony, how about a being (or at least appearing to be) the nice guys for once and give 6 months or a year's notice instead of a puny 30 days.
http://www.kitsdb.com/StarChamber/index.php
Most of these user agreements say you "RENT" the ability to make and trade items. These items/characters belong to x company.
You never truly own them.
But less than Apple, I take? :D
Can we really call these virtual goods ? It's just a row in the game operator's database. The user didn't buy that data, they bought a license to access what it represents: some imaginary doodad with stats that is then used to play against other similar doodads.
I suppose the 2-second fix to this would be: you want your "virtual goods" ? Here:
SELECT * FROM CARDS WHERE USER='poindexter'
And yes, fuck both parties.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Well, Duh.
What the hell else would happen with that stuff?
Print them out and send them to you to use with, nothing?
Since they only exist as database IDs, email the users the database IDs, and problem solved.
-- Terry
'Own'. That's an interesting choice of punctuation on TFA's part. It's like 'breathe'. Porous materials 'breathe', but that's only a semblance of breathing-- they don't respire. You might 'own' virtual goods, but that's only a semblance of actual ownership-- you've been granted a license to use those goods, not true ownership. Even TFA realizes that, else its writer wouldn't have bothered with scare quotes.
Why did you need proof of the perfectly self-evident?
In the real world "virtual goods" are called "services". That's why they exist on "servers".
Set your phasers on "funky"!
No. Don't take.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
[...] proof that any server-based digital goods you 'own' can vanish on a corporation's whim.
It amazes me that anyone has ever thought otherwise.
After 30 years of using computers and a CS degree, I can say one thing about any "pile of bits" on a computer: it doesn't really exist. Print your photos or use film. Keep your cd's and DVD's. Print out your important docs and put them in a lockbox.
I can't wait to show my grandkids the Amiga floppies all my old school work is on...(which require an Amiga floppy drive, which is physically different from a PC floppy drive)
Well no derp. What were you expecting? We're talking about items that have no value outside of the game. If the game dies, so do the items. I completely understand what the gamers are going through; it sucks. I myself have spent way too much time/money acquiring virtual goods on various free-to-play MMOs and such. If the day comes that the game goes bust, I fully intend to lose all those items. WTF does it matter how many stacks of Hero Potions I've squirreled away if there's no game-world to consume them in? Some people have tried to draw parallels to cloud storage, but that's comparing apples to virtual apples. That media is something you consume in real life. Besides, in that case you shouldn't put all your eggs in one cloud. It's fine for backup or accessing your files remotely, but you'd be dumb to rely on it completely. If Sony is truly calling this game a bust, it would be nice of them to pass it off to the community. If someone really cares enough to invest in a server and bandwidth to keep it going, then let them. Let's not kid ourselves though, Sony's not nice.
Oh god I hope valve never deletes tf2. I WANT MY HATS FOREVER
Sony is pulling a clever scheme that will instantly make every participant's collectible cards even more rare than any other card ever was in the whole game.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I hate Sony with a searing passion for the crap they pull, especially for their own engineers sake, who must be frustrated beyond words at how Sony employs them to come up with great ideas, produces amazing technical products, then cripples them with crappy software. Must drive them nuts.
BUT, I am writing, not to vilify Sony, but the whiny bitches who are crying about how an evil corporation is depriving them of their imaginary property. Remember, we all think imaginary property is somehow different from REAL PROPERTY (by which we mean, physical, tangible property, not land...) and decry attempts by owners of "intellectual" "property" as owning imaginary property, and how copying a movie or a game or music doesn't harm the producer in the same sense the theft of a loaf of bread does, inasmuch as what belongs to the producer is not somehow reduced, changed, or in any way altered. HA. Now who's whining about their so-called "property"? Virtual trading cards?
If you have ever, and I mean EVER committed an act of digital electronic piracy, played a game, heard a song, watched a film, etc., that you didn't pay for, and now you're crying about this... you're a HYPOCRITE and I laugh in your face. Here, let me call you a waaaambulance.
I remain baffled at how companies like Wizards of the Coast think it's acceptable to charge as much for online versions of stuff as they do for the real items (example here is MTG cards). Why the fuck would I pay the same price for something you can take away at your whim for any reason (or no reason) at all?
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
It's really true of just about anything based on the cloud system.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
for the most part, this statement is true of non-virtual cards as well.
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
It must be duh month on /. and frankly you're an idiot to spend money on such things.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
IDs aren't terribly useful without a database to go with them.
I think there are going to be a lot of kids that are butt hurt when they lose access to all their Xbox / PS3 DLC shortly after the next generation systems come out.
SOE previously shut down Lord of the Rings Online TCG and Stargate Online TCG, so this is not their first time pressing the big delete key on everyone's purchases.
Quick, we've got to stop the corporations before they own something again! Property belongs to the people!
I am not seeing the problem. It is specifically mentioned in the CONTRACT EULA etc that you agree to before you first run the program(s). SOE provides online servers at will and may remove these services with or without any reason. Read the legals you are agreeing to before you spend additional money.
But in this day and age... QUICK call a lawyer and start a class action suit to keep the server up. Well, maybe not yet, but maybe next year this will be common place. We the people are so !*(&%#!*(^%!!!!
No no, you missed Sony's new product!
Collectible Rootkit CD's! Each one will screw your computer in a brand new way! Collect them all! Get Malware Combos for even more fun!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Evil incarnate. More evil than Oracle and MS combined.
But is it more evil if Microsoft and Sony accidentally conceived a child, after obtaining an expired prophylactic from Apple?
They'll still be there. They'll just be offline. Where they're safe.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Given the trivial cost of archiving, there's no reason to assume that the data is going to be deleted. The game is shutting down, end of story. And of course, you were probably warned a long time ago (like when Magic Online set the stage for online TCGs) that this kind of thing would always be a specter when dealing in virtual items. Once the game is dead, what do you really expect to happen with the things you purchased?
Sony's not interested in releasing the code/data to the public, but I'm sure they'd like to leave the door open for another publisher to pick up the rights and resume service. If community members were interested/organized enough, they could even try pooling their money to buy the game from SOE. Kickstarter anyone?
Things that tend to disappear at whims of CEOs and boards?
I know, I know.. My English is work in progress.
http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
I'd like to know who thinks these things will last forever. The crap on their own hard drives won't last forever, why would they expect crap on someone else's computer to be there? Why would anyone even pay money for virtual goods instead of real goods? They deserve to lose their virtual goods, to teach them lessons in life. Paying for nothingness is about as intelligent as selling your kidney for an iPad.
Does EQOA predate Phantasy Star Online for Dreamcast and GameCube? I guess you're right that EQOA is the oldest console MMORPG still in operation.
No, Jimminy Cricket, no. Why would I want my kids to vegetate in front of Disney movies over and over, and why would I want to spend $400 to make that happen?
You just mentioned a Disney character. Could Disney already be your family's master?
someone that wouldn't get netflix if someone walked up and gave them a free Roku player
Among households I've polled, one common mindset is "I already pay per month for cable TV. Why should I pay extra per month for Netflix?". Another is "if I cancel cable TV and sign up for Netflix to watch movies and scripted TV series, where will I get my sports and political talk shows? ESPN and (MSNBC|Fox News) are worth $60 per month to me."
also, assuming for arguments sake that the database id was "68324090857" now anyone who can type that number "owns" your virtual item
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Money itself is already a virtual good, even more so if you have it on a bank account and pay with your credit card. So I hope you won't complain if at some time your bank says that it shuts down the servers where your account is stored and your money is gone, sorry.
Don't get me wrong: It probably was silly to expect those cards to last forever. But that's not because they were virtual goods, but because most probably the ToS said somewhere that it is not guaranteed that they last forever, and that you cannot get a refund in that case.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
You're right, I won't complain if all of the banks (and businesses dealing with credit) disappear! In fact, I'll be extremely enthused.
Your retard is dripping again!
-- L8R, guitardood
Hopefully not your retarded post you ill mannered self-proclaimed-intellectual-who-cant-even-get-a-freaking-dot-com-domain-and-had-to-settle-for-the-retarded-dot-us.
-- L8R, guitardood
why don't you do slashdot a favor and sell both of your kidneys. That way four people could benefit, the two with kidneys and the other two with iPads.
I'm sure your retardedness will be emptied from them by then as they are for waste disposal.
-- L8R, guitardood
But, the users didn't by the database, or really databases. What they bought were access to entries in a database.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
... cough cough... Star Wars Galaxies..cough cough... I will hold a grudge forever against SOE because of the CU and NGE.
This is what I love about the digitization of the tabletop rpg market. If I go to drivethrurpg or rpgnow, I can buy plain old pdfs of many games. No DRM, no copy protection, no crap - buy it, download my own copy, move it from system to system, and never have to deal with it connecting to a server to verify my usage. If I want to print it out, sure - probably just as expensive as ordering a good quality print on demand book from the company. (Still, pdfs to create the old Arms Law and Claw Law tables on parchment paper is awesome notion.) Heck, if I really want, I can use OCR on them or copy/paste and create my own custom version of the books into my own "house rule" version. There is even some that are following the Blender model of going from for-profit to the free-to-all model - like one of my classic favorites Talislanta (now free to download all editions, because the original designer kept hold of all the rights for all 5 editions). I hate DRMed stuff... that is why I'd rather buy a book, OCR it for my personal use, and then put that pdf on my ereader. Of course, gamers are more like the people of Japan after the tidal wave... they don't go looting their own house, they pay the developers so that good stuff will keep coming out.
The gnome deathknight doesn't exist without the servers, regardless of how much you did, or didn't pay for it (directly or indirectly), if you prefer a more F2P comparison, ships in Star Trek Online, or some of the tanks in World Tanks are examples of a this. You can get a statue made of your ship, tank, or gnome deathknight, but it's not a ship, tank or DK, it's just a statue of it. Without the world that makes it hd wallpapers exist it isn't anything. An ebook is just another variant on book, book on papyrus, book on paper, book from printing press, book in german, book in english, book in electronic format, and without amazon you'd be locked out of the only format of that book you paid for, even though one of the other book formats would still have had value to you. A Magic The gathering card stored 'in the cloud' that you could access anywhere would still have play value if you could take it out of the cloud if the service was to shut down, as you could still play the game without the cloud storage. In this case the game is shutting down, and the data it has can't be 'pulled out' separately.