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Have We Lost Our Privacy To the Internet?

Posted by samzenpus on from the tell-us-everything dept.

An anonymous reader writes "An article in the Guardian, penned by Joss Wright and Tom Chatfield, discusses whether we — as in Internet users in general — are, or indeed are not, giving away way too much information about ourselves to large Corporations that profit handsomely from mining the info. The article talks about how contemporary internet companies — perhaps predictably — are run with a 'privacy is dead' motto. It considers what implications having all your private data out on the internet — where it can be seen, searched, shared, retransmitted, perhaps archived forever without your consent — has for the 'future of our society' (by which the authors presumably mean the society of the UK). The (rather long) article ends by mentioning that Gmail scans your email, that Facebook apps frequently send your private data right to the app developer, that iPhones are known to log your geographic location, and that some smartphone apps read your address book and messages, then dial home to transmit this info to the company that developed the app."

34 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. I believe so. by GmExtremacy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Many people just don't seem to care about privacy any more. And indeed, with people accepting the Patriot Act (in the US) and adopting the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mentality, I think things will only get worse.

    Some places are installing cameras everywhere in public places due to a criminal paranoia. Even if you don't technically have privacy in most public places, the cameras just make this even worse. They're not comparable at all to normal humans spotting you because these cameras are everywhere at once and can (and do) record everything they see (unlike a human's faulty memory, the cameras won't forget anything).

    Then there's the whole problem of people willingly giving up all of their information to websites like Facebook. I personally have no doubt that there will come a time when privacy violations and spying are seen as normal and acceptable. In fact, that might already be largely true.

    1. Re:I believe so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We spent thousands of years with no privacy whatsoever. The idea that we ever had some fanciful idea called "personal privacy" is largely a myth. Even with regard to government monitoring. I don't have to remind anyone about our various national histories.

      But yes, now data collection, correlation and general connectivity have gone through the roof. So we make laws about, bargain over, even make and sell various products and services, all surrounding personal privacy.

      Things ebb and flow.

    2. Re:I believe so. by Zaelath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People seem confused in the differences between "I do nothing illegal" and "I have nothing to hide". If you like to cross dress you most certainly have something to hide from your biker mates, or the chaps at the tennis club, or your patients at the dental surgery, or pretty much anyone else that doesn't enjoy your subculture. Yet there's nothing illegal there.

    3. Re:I believe so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

      The window tax was a property tax based on the number of windows in a house. It was a significant social, cultural, and architectural force in England, France and Scotland during the 18th and 19th centuries. To avoid the tax some houses from the period can be seen to have bricked-up window-spaces (ready to be glazed at a later date), as a result of the tax.

      At that time, many people in Britain opposed income tax, on principle, because they believed that the disclosure of personal income represented an unacceptable governmental intrusion into private matters, and a potential threat to personal liberty.

      The bigger the house, the more windows it was likely to have, and the more tax the occupants would pay. Nevertheless, the tax was unpopular, because it was seen by some as a tax on "light and air".

    4. Re:I believe so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We spent thousands of years with no privacy whatsoever.

      Thankfully, we realized (and have forgotten, apparently) that privacy is not only preferable, but is important to keep the government in check. A government that can break into anyone's house, spy on anyone, and look for the slightest infraction is one that is most prone to abuse.

    5. Re:I believe so. by jhoegl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except, this isnt the government, it is the "private sector". You might find this a quandary, but consider that a company has your data and you must pay them to keep it away from the free press. Sure, it might be extortion now... but wouldnt that be blocking "free trade"?
      You see... when corporations own the government, there is no stopping them to endeavor to make you their slave.
      Even monetary systems can be manipulated into slavery. For example, Communism. But instead of the government controlling everything, companies do.
      And well... since companies are people... it turns into the one thing everyone has hated and feared since the 1920s.

    6. Re:I believe so. by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

      People seem confused in the differences between "I do nothing illegal" and "I have nothing to hide".

      Exactly. I suggest that all those who equate wanting privacy with being criminals be forced to carry out their personal necessities like bathing, grooming and using the restroom on national television. We can call it the "but you've got nothing to hide you dumb shit" show.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:I believe so. by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the state and private enterprise routinely pass data back and forth between the barrier to get around the regs.. it's a hybrid situation so blaming just one of them is pointless..

    8. Re:I believe so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Privacy died over a decade ago. Only the magnitude of the damage to loss of privacy has been amplified.

      Cookies, Banner Ads, JavaScript, Java Applets, DejaNews (yes, they were the first ones to archive Usenet posts for an indefinite period of time, before they got bought by Google), site redirects by an advertiser. Remember the Sun CEO quote--you have no privacy, get over it (or very close similar words). More recently, using scripts to submit an invisible form on the user's behalf, to knowingly and deliberately browser security to force tracking cookies (not just Google, folks, other advertisers too are still doing this even if Google fixed their issue).

      Only now, more than ever before, is it profitable to hold a user's data hostage, demanding a court order to remove that which the user still owns the copyright over.

      But it isn't new--it's just a much higher severity than ever before when it causes someone embarassment, or the loss of a potential or current job, or when something someone says has been dealt with--it still lives on longer than it should.

      And, most importantly, building up massive user profile for the stupid fucking dream that a user will not only intentionally click on an ad (as opposed to accidentally when the ad interfered with where they intended to click) and even more ludicrous, that the same user will actually buy something just because the ad stalked them from page to page and targeted them.

    9. Re:I believe so. by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We spent thousands of years with no privacy whatsoever. The idea that we ever had some fanciful idea called "personal privacy" is largely a myth.

      I've seen this chestnut trotted out before, but it's not as pertinent as a lot of people would like to think.

      I live in the developing world in a locale where personal privacy is largely as it was 3000 years ago when these islands were first settled. I can assure you that a digital society that records your every action with perfect accuracy is not at all like village life.

      Yes, it's true that everyone here knows everybody else's business. It's not at all unusual for me to meet someone in the street whom I haven't seen in months, and they'll already know what I've been up to earlier in the day. Buildings here are not designed to suppress sound (it's the tropics, don't you know), so you actually have to make an effort to ignore some of the things that happen next door.

      But the local culture has long adapted to these circumstances. Privacy is actually jealously protected, not only by the individuals, but by their neighbours. They'll gossip like crazy, but they will not, for example, let a person's drunken weekend spree come into consideration when they're applying for work.

      Most importantly of all, government and police are not given carte blanche access to their collective knowledge.

      In short, there's a world of difference between a place without privacy and a surveillance society. Let's be clear that in this case we're talking about the latter.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    10. Re:I believe so. by Boscrossos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This. Companies like to see big fat black numbers at the bottom of the balance sheet. They really don't sit around stroking a pet of some kind and cackling maniacally at their next scheme to put one over on those nasty consumers. Truth is, they don't care about you, they just want your money. If they see ways to get at it better, they'll use them. In this case, targeted advertising should be more effective,, since it will offer you stuff you want (if the targeting system is halfway smart, at least), so you would more likely be interested. Meanwhile, the company can save money because now they just have to advertise to the people who might buy their stuff instead of to everybody, hoping to hit the few % of consumers who need their product. Basically, it's smart missiles vs carpet bombing, and I think we can all agree that smart missiles should cause less collateral damage.

      Oh, and before anyone gets the wrong idea: I am 100% against companies gathering (and holding indefinitely) personal data of people who did not give it up freely, knowing what they are getting themselves into. But I am also cynical enough to believe that a large percentage of Facebook, smartphone app, etc users would just shrug if you told them, and say they don't really care. Frankly, I myself don't much care if the corporate world knows I want to buy an inflatable pool, a bulk amount of whipped cream, and a used industrial vacuum cleaner. Let them make of that what they will. I do, however, draw the line at personal information I did not give to them. I do not want to receive mail/phone calls/creepy ads that state my (alleged) location/names of my close friends/etc, unless I gave that information to you personally.

      --
      Jesus saves... the rest takes full damage.
  2. Semantic Gripe, incoming! by PessimysticRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I take serious issue with anything that implies a person's problem is because of "The Internet." Like the poster above (and many more to come, I bet), people simply don't care anymore. If the Internet can be held responsible for anything, anymore, it's enabling people that are so desperate for attention, they need to inform others of every minutiae of their life.

    Or I could have simply interpreted the title incorrectly; it is a silly thing.

    --
    Consistency is only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
  3. Just try shutting down your facebook account by multiben · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just try shutting down your facebook account and then answer this question. My fingerprints are smeared all over the internet mainly because of Facebook alone. The cat is out of the bag and no matter what I do I can't get it back in. I don't really have much to hide, but man I shudder for those that do.

    1. Re:Just try shutting down your facebook account by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You have plenty to hide. You just don't know who it needs to be hidden from yet.

    2. Re:Just try shutting down your facebook account by StripedCow · · Score: 4, Informative

      The cat is out of the bag and no matter what I do I can't get it back in.

      Well, the one thing you *can* do, is to inject so much noise into the internet about your persona, that the information that is currently on the web becomes practically useless.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
  4. The irony by kakyoin01 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone else find it ironic that an anonymous reader submitted an article about losing privacy?

    --
    The more you know, the more you have to say and the more you should listen.
    1. Re:The irony by robably · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just you and Alanis Morrisette, at a guess.

    2. Re:The irony by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone else find it ironic that an anonymous reader submitted an article about losing privacy?

      Seems like the opposite of ironic to me. If you think leaving a permanent record of your actions on the internet is bad for you, then it stands to reason you would do as much as possible to remain anonymous in those actions.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  5. Info about me by Skapare · · Score: 4, Funny

    I am called Skapare. I've been called Skapare since I played text MUD games online. I do my best to annoy Slashdotters. My phone runs Android. So now I guess everyone knows everything there is to know about me.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  6. But really what are they collecting? by Apothem · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't think it'd bother us as much if we knew EXACTLY what data they were collecting. Perhaps a policy of some kind when a company is collecting information, they would have to show a sample of what the collected information would look like and how it would be protected. If you think about it, if there is physical proof that your information isn't as identifiable as everyone may think it is, it would probably put a lot of fear at ease. Especially if one knew that the stuff that would make anon data identifiable was missing as a whole.

  7. Nah by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Funny

    Chill. Entropy wins every time.

    --
    Deleted
  8. Re:I live in the EU by x1r8a3k · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Do you really think that its not happening wherever you are too? Like Google, Facebook, etc. Europe isn't spying on you just as much as Google, Facebook, etc. in the US is?

    As much as you like to poke fun at us Americans(often rightfully so), we're all in this together.

  9. Profit by Jazari · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While the corporations that use our data have profited much, so have users. I certainly have profited *hugely* from Google's free search engine, free email, free Docs service, free apps on iPhone and Android, etc. I guess some people also consider that they've profited from whatever benefits Facebook and Twitter offer as well.

    The real problem is that the information that these companies accumulate can be captured by the government, and that the logs may go back years (or forever)...

  10. No, you gave it away by mindcandy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It wasn't "lost" nor was it "taken" .. you traded it for better prizes (free search, free storage, whatever).

  11. To give away or not to give away our privacy by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Privacy is a commodity - a private commodity

    Each of us has our own privacy, and each of us interpret "Privacy" a little bit differently

    As to whether we have given away our privacy to the corporations, I think it's too much of a blanket statement

    You see, privacy is ours to begin with. The decision of whether not our privacy is handed over to the corporation largely falls into our own hand

    If you decide to value your own privacy, then you won't reveal your own real identity online - and there are many ways to keep your real earth identity separate from your online identity

    Plus, if you are so afraid that huge corporations like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook may be gathering your privacy, then you should take step to ensure that whatever they gather from your activities online would not reflect who you are, in real life

    Do not blame the corporations if you reveal everything yourself

    And one more very important thing - Your privacy is not only in danger on the Internet

    There are other areas that your privacy might be revealed to others - like your medical history, your driving licence, your voting records, the secret files the government (governments ?) keeps on you, et cetera

    Do not think that just because your online privacy is threatened that your off-line privacy is not

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree, living in a bubble is awesome! Steve Jobs did!

      It's not "living in a bubble"

      It's merely living your own life without having to tell the world everything about yourself

      I've friends who are loud mouths and they will tell everything about everybody, including everything about themselves to the world

      Hey, to those people, they are willingly revealing where they work, how much they earn, who their doctors are, what type of disease they have, what political inclination they belong to, and so on ...

      For people like that, don't blame the corporations if one day they can't purchase health insurance no more because everyone know that they gonna have cancer to the liver/lung/whatever in the future

      One other thing, these "other ways to protect your privacy" cost money. So, either way companies are still making money off of you.

      Who says that you need to pay to protect your privacy?

      All you need to do is to zip your mouth shut and to be extra careful of what you do online and off-line

      If I do not want people to know where I shop, when I shop, how much I pay for milk a month, I don't shop in ONE store and I don't use my credit card when I do my shopping

      If I do not want people to know the frequency of my travelling from Detroit to Chicago, then I change my mode of transportation often - fly some times, drive some other times

      It all boils down to what you do with your own live

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    2. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is the difference between the US and the EU. In the US privacy is perhaps a commodity. In the EU it's a fundamental human right protected by the constution.

    3. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your approach is way too randian.

      For example - I recently sent a URL to a friend with gmail address.
      I noticed from the logs that google spidered that website within minutes of me sending that email. Not much of a surprise that google would do it (although a bit chilling to see it in practice), but the problem with your approach is that not only do I need to know that Google will suck up everything I send to someone at a gmail address I also need to know what every other email host will do with email sent to their systems. That's not practical - especially when google does things like offer free email services for personal domains, then I have to do something like dig through MX records to find out who the real host is for every single person I ever send an email too and then figure out what their policies are and if they have changed since the last time I sent an email. That is beyond "not practical" and is now firmly in the territory of ridiculous.

      The only alternative then is to live in a bubble of isolation, refusing to interact with anyone using modern means for fear of disclosing information to the wrong people.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by ArundelCastle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I noticed from the logs that google spidered that website within minutes of me sending that email. Not much of a surprise that google would do it (although a bit chilling to see it in practice), but the problem with your approach is that not only do I need to know that Google will suck up everything I send to

      I'm not sure why it's chilling either. Spidering the link immediately delivers "relevant" ads to your Gmail window right away. That is how Gmail is meant to be.

      Chilling would be if your robots.txt is set to turn down spiders and they do it anyway. Chilling is when they don't play by their own rules, not the rules themselves.

    5. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your approach is way too randian

      No, it's not randian, but instead, it's the most practical way to live one's own life in the world we are living in

      It's the you-are-responsible-for-your-own-wellbeing way of living

      In this world where everything could be archived somewhere, if you reveal things about yourselves, like the water that has splashed out of a cup, there's no way to get the genie back into the bottle

      For example - I recently sent a URL to a friend with gmail address.

      I noticed from the logs that google spidered that website within minutes of me sending that email. Not much of a surprise that google would do it (although a bit chilling to see it in practice), but the problem with your approach is that not only do I need to know that Google will suck up everything I send to someone at a gmail address I also need to know what every other email host will do with email sent to their systems

      This world we live in is indeed very different from the world our forefathers lived

      And the way we live in this world should also be very different from the way our forefathers lived in their world

      We must change faster than the pace the world is changing, or we will be consumed by it all

      That's not practical - especially when google does things like offer free email services for personal domains, then I have to do something like dig through MX records to find out who the real host is for every single person I ever send an email too and then figure out what their policies are and if they have changed since the last time I sent an email. That is beyond "not practical" and is now firmly in the territory of ridiculous

      If you think that it's ridiculous, think of the world our offspring will inhibit

      Their every-day-lives will be recoded somewhere

      Their presence in every place will be noted, what they said and do will be archived, everything including their shoe-size will be known to people who wants to know

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    6. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by next_ghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Encryption is always an option. You can interact with people just fine, just ask them to use proper measures and teach them how if necessary.

    7. Re:To give away or not to give away our privacy by godel_56 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As someone else said, your relatives/friends could mindlessly give away your information on Facebook or something such as that. Even just a name may be enough for someone to learn something revealing about you with a quick search

      When you do not reveal everything to your friends, colleagues, and even to your own family members, how much do you think they can reveal to the world about you?

      After all, the word "Privacy" came from "Private", and the most "Private" thing there is yourself - yes, your very own self

      I saw someone on TV on the weekend quoting figures that 30% of US companies said they would not hire a job applicant if they saw a picture of them holding a glass of wine on a social media web site. So all it takes is some dickhead labelling a picture of you at a party on THEIR Facebook page, and they may have damaged your reputation for years.

      No action from you required

  12. Re:Data Protection Act by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

    They certainly do get enforced - http://www.computerweekly.com/news/1280094253/Google-breached-UK-data-protection-laws-says-ICO

    Google also respond to Data Requests under the DPA.

  13. Name changes will become the new norm at 18. by WiiVault · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the continued backlog of potentially negative data soon to be facing young-adults as they leave childhood and enter the job market, I expect Facebook will bring about an era where name changes upon adulthood become common place. Of course some people will go ahead and be stupid with their new identities too as many do now. But what other option will today's kids have to remove affiliations from their latest Beiber hate rant of drunken high school tweet?