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New Interface Could Wire Prosthetics Directly Into Amputees' Nervous Systems

cylonlover writes "Scientists at Sandia National Laboratories have announced a breakthrough in prosthetics that may one day allow artificial limbs to be controlled by their wearers as naturally as organic ones, as well as providing sensations of touch and feeling. The scientists have developed a new interface consisting of a porous, flexible, conductive, biocompatible material through which nerve fibers can grow and act as a sort of junction through which nerve impulses can pass to the prosthesis and data from the prosthesis back to the nerve. If this new interface is successful, it has the potential to one day allow nerves to be connected directly to artificial limbs."

160 comments

  1. The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Stop punching yourself.
    Stop punching yourself.
    Stop punching yourself.

    1. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by tiago.bonetti · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ghost in the Shell

    2. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Muramas95 · · Score: 1

      Fullmetal Alchemist

    3. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by sycodon · · Score: 0

      +1 Funny

      WTF with the dour, humorless mods?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Rakarra · · Score: 0, Troll

      Mods, this should really be +1, Troll. Please moderate accordingly.

    5. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Neuromancer

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    6. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deus Ex

      I never asked for this.

    7. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by EdIII · · Score: 2

      Troll? Really why?

      Did it remind you of a childhood filled with swirlies and atomic wedgies?

    8. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Johnny Mnemonic

    9. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop punching yourself.
      Stop punching yourself.
      Stop punching yourself.

      Even worse, we really don't have to amputate your leg, just make you feel like it was, for hours!

    10. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      God, I have a hell of an urge to allow such "technology" on politicians.

      Let's change our voting system so that we can optionally issue a punch instead of a vote. CEO's also.

      "Sir, you are wearing out the lever. Please let others have their turn."

    11. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by idontgno · · Score: 1

      The Winter Market

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    12. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Rakarra · · Score: 1, Funny

      The post itself is technically not trolling, but describes the behavior possible with a new sort of cyber-troll. What if you did give motor control access to technology, and someone -could- hack into your cybernetic systems and cause you to start hitting yourself?

      Thus, +1 troll, not -1 troll. But it's been modded up to +5 anyway in the meantime.

    13. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by gknoy · · Score: 1

      While the comments about augmentation in other fiction (Neuromancer, Fullmetal Alchemist) are interesting, I think that the Ghost in the Shell comment is more apropos. Ghost in the Shell has numerous instances where people's man-machine interface is hacked, some of which are central plot points of several different episodes. People are puppeteered to say or do things, including things like kill themselves (or others).

      I don't remember things in Gibson's stories that did that explicitly, though of course my memory is fuzzy. I mean, you could alter someone's avatar's behavior, and cause physical feedback, but I don't remember them being able to control people's actions. It's quite possible that I simply don't remember this, and anyone with a quote showing otherwise is likely to get mod points directed their way. ;-)

      Fullmetal Alchemist might have similar mind-control effects, but the premise there is that it'd be done through Alchemy, which isn't quite in the same ballpark as technology the way Ghost in the Shell's is, right?

    14. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Mythran · · Score: 1

      A bug in the interface forces the translation to: while (true) { PunchYourself(); }

    15. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

    16. Re:The cyborg limbs get hacked.... by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 1
      --
      Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
  2. The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures the true horror of
    this monstrosity. Its inventors promise a new era of genius, but
    meanwhile unscrupulous power brokers use its forcible installation
    to violate the sanctity of unwilling human minds. They are
    creating their own private army of demons.

    -- Commissioner Pravin Lal,
    "Report on Human Rights"

    1. Re:The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures... by Flyerman · · Score: 2

      I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine - just as the good doctor intended.
      But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back.
      In my dreams the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness.
      Dark. Rigid. Cold. Alien.
      Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen.

      -- Commissioner Pravin Lal,
      "Man and Machine"

  3. Sarif by ticker47 · · Score: 2

    They aren't by chance starting a company called Sarif are they?

    1. Re:Sarif by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Unfortunately I think we are sans a company called Sarif for now.

    2. Re:Sarif by bjoast · · Score: 2

      Sarif Industries was founded in 2007. Learn your history! http://sarifindustries.com/en/#/sarifandyou/sarifindustries/

    3. Re:Sarif by Hogmoru · · Score: 1

      A bit lame, but I chuckled...

    4. Re:Sarif by Briareos · · Score: 2

      I'd prefer the world stayed sans Sarif...

      --

      "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

    5. Re:Sarif by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

      Are they a Courier company?

      --
      "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  4. Resistance is futile... by bytethese · · Score: 0

    I welcome my new Borg overlords.

    1. Re:Resistance is futile... by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

      Overlords? You need to step up to the hacker challenge.

      Step one: Install root kit in 7 of 9's interface. Step two: Party!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Resistance is futile... by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Rooting her kit comments in five... four...

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    3. Re:Resistance is futile... by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I'd seven her nine, if you get what I mean!

    4. Re:Resistance is futile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /dance /dance /dance !

    5. Re:Resistance is futile... by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      So, you’re saying you’d be two inches too small?

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    6. Re:Resistance is futile... by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

      Firmware upgrade?

      --
      "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  5. Holy Crap by Bovius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know this is still a research project and they don't know how well it's actually going to work in practice, but the fact that we're approaching a machine-nerve interface at all is incredible. If they are successful, they will end up with a permanent, prominent place in our history books.

    Good work, people.

    1. Re:Holy Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I saw the same functionality, i.e., artificial limbs controlled by a machine-nerve interface, demoed during a plenary talk at the 2008 IEEE Engineering in Biology and Medicine conference, and the results were incredible. One man, who had lost an arm, but had one of these artificial ones grafted on, was practically as dexterous as those with a natural arm and was able to interact with everyday objects with ease.

    2. Re:Holy Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No kidding. While this is primarily targeted at controlling artificial limbs, that's merely one relatively obvious application. Once we have an *accurate* neural interface there's no reason to (nor will we) stop there, and I think that aspect of the story is the true, potentially century-defining breakthrough.

    3. Re:Holy Crap by Bovius · · Score: 1

      Link/source? Some cursory googling produced results that weren't quite what you're talking about, and I'd love to learn more about what was happening there.

    4. Re:Holy Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can see the patents now:

      Browser that is controlled by neural interface.
      Form system that fills fields by using neural interface.
      Comment posting system that uses neural interface.
      Paint system that uses neural interface.
      Etc.

    5. Re:Holy Crap by mikael · · Score: 1
      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    6. Re:Holy Crap by mikael · · Score: 1

      They have done research with electrodes wired into the brain. Paralyzed patients were able to control a cursor in four directions and select items. Unfortunately, having a hole drilled in your skull with a RJ45 socket wasn't the most practical interconnect. Maybe a Bluetooth dongle would be more practical, but there is still the problem of keeping the client side powered up.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    7. Re:Holy Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The talk I was referencing was given by Nitish Thakor, of the Biomedical Engineering department at Johns Hopkins (website link: http://web1.johnshopkins.edu/nthakor/); I would have listed the name earlier, but it eluded me and I didn't have my EMBC booklet/DVD with me.

      As an aside, if you're interested in just the high-level overview of the work, check out the following press release: http://www.jhuapl.edu/newscenter/pressreleases/2007/070426.asp (note that the system in question is the same as that mentioned in Mikael's link: http://www.ric.org/research/accomplishments/Bionic.aspx)

    8. Re:Holy Crap by ccanucs · · Score: 1

      Costing more than $6M I would think though...

    9. Re:Holy Crap by wealthychef · · Score: 1

      404 Video not found when clicking on video link.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    10. Re:Holy Crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is old news, they have been claiming this for years.. Good luck not pulling out all the fibers hanging out your skin. By the time they come up with a neat package that doesnt rely on (more or less) wires. Others probably will come up with a way to replace them with regeneration..

  6. Making tech level progress... by torchdragon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Excellent! Now we can build Copters, Thinkers, Drop Pods and start work on the The Cyborg Factory.

    --
    "Don't feel bad for me child; I'm the monster that hides under your bed."
    1. Re:Making tech level progress... by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Excellent! Now we can build Copters, Thinkers, Drop Pods and start work on the The Cyborg Factory."

      Mmm, I was more along the line like fitting a man, a former astronaut named Steve Austin from OSI with implants for ...let's say 6 million dollars.

      And now get off my lawn.

    2. Re:Making tech level progress... by bytethese · · Score: 3, Funny

      Except now he'd be the $27,586,004.06 man. Gotta love inflation!

    3. Re:Making tech level progress... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      These days, 6 million would barely buy a finger.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    4. Re:Making tech level progress... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is he going to live in the woods with his sasquatch life partner?

    5. Re:Making tech level progress... by ILMTitan · · Score: 1

      No no no. This is not Mind/Machine Interface. It is just the prerequisite: Neural Grafting. It does mean, however, we can start making individual bioenhancement centers.

    6. Re:Making tech level progress... by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      We certainly need more Thinkers...

    7. Re:Making tech level progress... by Sarius64 · · Score: 1

      I'm so old now, dreaming about Jaime Sommers is enough. :)

  7. Kind of doubt my insurance will cover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And we wonder why the cost of health care keeps skyrocketing....

    1. Re:Kind of doubt my insurance will cover by Kenja · · Score: 1

      Yes... Insurance costs too much not because the companies providing it are greedy and profit driven, but because of all those amputees ruining it for the rest of us. (fyi, dont do a Google image search for "amputees" with safe search turned off. Need mind bleach).

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:Kind of doubt my insurance will cover by imamac · · Score: 1

      And of course, now I HAVE to do it...

  8. Wireless mouse by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

    Can't wait to replace all my tablets, touchscreens, wireless mice, and keyboards with my new virtual cybernectic tail. Cybernectic telephathy is the future. Rest in piece copyright, tellivisons, and hand held cell phones.

    1. Re:Wireless mouse by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      You'd better add a spell checker to that list of things you want implanted.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Wireless mouse by robthebloke · · Score: 1

      And lasers! (Head mounted preferably)

    3. Re:Wireless mouse by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      You know, when they guy driving the taxi told you to shove your cellphone up your ass, I'm pretty sure he wasn't being literal...

    4. Re:Wireless mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, lasers are too subtle. I'll have the shoulder mounted turret that always points where my eyes are focused.

  9. Need new glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read that as prostitutes

  10. Cyborgs and Zombies by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    Are cyborgs safe from becomming zombies?

    If so- I want all my body parts converted to artificial parts BEFORE the zombie apocalypse. Afterwards it would be too late.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Cyborgs and Zombies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get it.

      Thanks to malware, the cyborgs will be the zombies.

    2. Re:Cyborgs and Zombies by Securityemo · · Score: 1

      Sudden and unexpected involuntary cheerleaders for penis-pills more likely.

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
    3. Re:Cyborgs and Zombies by slyrat · · Score: 1

      Are cyborgs safe from becoming zombies?

      If so- I want all my body parts converted to artificial parts BEFORE the zombie apocalypse. Afterwards it would be too late.

      Depends, I would assume that to still be a cyborg and not a robot you would need to have your brain intact. So even if everything else was converted you could still at least be zombified via the brain. Admittedly you might be immune because of the body being non-flesh but not completely.

    4. Re:Cyborgs and Zombies by Thud457 · · Score: 1
      that explains a lot -- zombies are actually evangelical early adopter FOSS extropian cyborgs!
      • when they're saying BRAAAAINSSS , they're actually trying to advocate your relocating your brain into a cyborg/zombie body
      • incomplete, faulty implementation, leading to control problems, including faulty speech processing
      • they smell
      • also, this gives us a plausible mechanism for zombies to be scientifically feasible, unlike "The Walking Dead", "I am legend", "Resident Evil", "Bubba Ho-Tep" or "Planet Fear"

      /jk!

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    5. Re:Cyborgs and Zombies by mundanetechnomancer · · Score: 1

      cheerleader cyber-slave zombies for the person who hacks them? where are my programming books...

  11. Interface by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Resistance is Futile

    You will be Assimilated

    - The Borg

  12. Obligatory response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never asked for this.

  13. Pain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article doesn't say but I wonder if it will be possible to provide, e.g. temperature data to the nerves without also sending pain? Could amputees choose whether or not they wanted to feel pain in their prosthesis?

    1. Re:Pain by NEDHead · · Score: 1

      You can always take out the battery

    2. Re:Pain by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      It'd make sense to retain the pain response for the purposes of avoiding damage - the mechanics of the arm might handle high temperature for a while, but the plastic artificial skin would melt on contact.

    3. Re:Pain by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      You mechs might have copper wiring to reroute your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.

    4. Re:Pain by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Pain nerves are separate from temperature or touch nerves. I'd just want to recalibrate the pain to be appropriate to the hardware's durability. Silicone based skin should be able to handle a few hundred degrees Fahrenheit easily. I'd also want at least two, maybe three different sets of limbs; one realistic, one strong and durable, one light, fast, and dexterous. #2 and #3 wouldn't need to look at all human.

  14. It's a fascinating idea, but... by msobkow · · Score: 1

    The idea of direct neural interfaces has intrigued me all through my years of reading about cyborgs and brain-in-a-bottle science fiction.

    But when it comes to practical application, one thing has always puzzled me: How do you disconnect the device once it's "grown" into being part of your nervous system? How do you replace failed parts or repair the electronic/mechanical component of such devices?

    The "Six Million Dollar Man" made for entertaining TV, but in practicality, was he supposed to lie on a guerney for days while they repaired a leg?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      I should say it would be no worse than the original amputation.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    2. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by robinsonne · · Score: 1

      Once you've "grown" the connection between the nervous system and the "electrical" part, why can't the rest of it be modular and easy to plug in and out as needs come up.

      Have an arm/hand for fine delicate precision work, have a different one for playing racquetball, have another for heavy lifting, etc. while the actual interface part always stays the same.

    3. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I don't understand what problem you think exists. Assuming the interface itself doesn't need to be replaced, you just pull a connector (which leads to the nerve/wire interface) and remove the artificial limb or whatever. I guess you could be temporarily inconvenienced by having your arms/legs in the shop. You'd probably get some phantom limb syndrome too.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by msobkow · · Score: 2

      I'm not so sure about that at all. In order for there to be a grown neural interface, there has to be a component that merges with the flesh, what you refer to as a connector (and which I think of as a mount point, like a gun turret.)

      My concern is not just the failure of the attached prosthetic, which could be detached and repaired as you suggest, but the components of the neural interface itself. I think it's far more likely that as time progresses, such devices would be designed and built with the idea of being a permanent and unremovable replacement limb, eye, or ear, which brings me back to the question on how to repair such devices.

      It's too early to worry about such issues, but it's not too early to start talking about them.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    5. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by timeOday · · Score: 1
      This is no joke: Hundreds of thousands' fitted with faulty hip implants.

      The thing we have working for us is that devices don't have to last forever - just until you die. So in practice, risky procedures (and drugs) become mainstream by starting on patients with extremely short life expectancies or very low quality of life, and then gradually reducing the threshold for using the treatment as the kinks are worked out. But young people who receive joint replacements today are told they'll last 10-20 years until you're back in the shop, which is definitely expensive, inconvenient, and somewhat medically risky. If I were a young vet being considered for some fresh-from-DARPA neural interface, I would seriously consider the fact that I will almost certainly outlast the research program and even the doctors who implanted my one-of-a-kind device. They'll almost certainly end up scraping it out for an upgrade within 15 years.

    6. Re:It's a fascinating idea, but... by mhajicek · · Score: 1
      It's always possible that you could develop a problem with the connector, but the connector has a very small percentage of failure points compared to the whole system. It's also relatively protected. Imagine you wipe out on a motorcycle and grind down your palm, forearm, and elbow. Chances are the connector will be just fine, provided the bone mounting point was sufficiently reinforced.

      If a CNC milling machine crashes it's tool into the workpiece, it's possible to damage the spindle, but usually it's just the cutter and toolholder that get damaged. Those are much faster and cheaper to replace.

  15. Give Santorum a new head instead by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 0

    Skip the robot limbs. Give Santorum a new head instead. That would be beneficial.

    1. Re:Give Santorum a new head instead by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 0

      Can we not just take away his existing one without giving him a new one?

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:Give Santorum a new head instead by The_Crisis · · Score: 0

      That would be beneficial.

      Not if it ends up returning to its natural environment, aka its owner's rectal cavity.

      --
      "It is a fine line between lazy and efficient."
  16. Adverse Events by Milo+Fungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am a doctor. In fact, I am a neurologist (IAAN). This article is fascinating, and I hope they keep working on this technology and get it working. That being said, I would never plug one of these things into my own amputated limb. Going to medical school and doing residency have turned me into something of a Luddite. Medical technology is cool, but every treatment has potential benefits and toxicities. The adverse event I would worry about most with this technology is neuropathic pain. Neuropathic pain is notoriously difficult to treat. What if you plugged this device into some amputee's limb and gave them excruciating pain? I would rather have a metal hook for a hand.

    1. Re:Adverse Events by Hentes · · Score: 1

      If they still have at least one hand, just put an off switch on it.

    2. Re:Adverse Events by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It'd be very localised neuropathic pain, coming just from the area of the interface... so couldn't the nerves just be re-severed? Worst case you'd lose a bit more sensation in your limb-stump and be left with a big medical bill.

    3. Re:Adverse Events by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      Since you are a neurologist, I would be interested in your thoughts on using this interface technology in repairing damaged neural pathways or in creating ones that never grew properly (IE: Spinal injury or Spina Bifida)

      It seems to me that the ability to simply lay in conductive neural lattices to connect broken pathways would be a HUGE boon *plegics of all stripes and for birth defect victims.

      Unless I am hugely underestimating the complexity of the task (likely) or simply mis-reading the article (less likely, although still possible.)

      What do you think?

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    4. Re:Adverse Events by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I'd look at it more like a robot arm plus bonus Vicodin for the pain.

    5. Re:Adverse Events by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Fascinating, indeed. Given just the people I've known with peripheral nerve damage, spinal injuries, missing limbs, this could be a Godsend. Were I in a situation to have need for this I'm not sure I'd say never, although I agree I'd be leery of the pain possibilities; one hopes that could be avoided. I've long said I'd be third in line for an eye transplant - one to see if it works, two to make sure it wasn't a fluke, three, sign me up.

      Dr. Hook?

    6. Re:Adverse Events by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Isn't that one of the applications TENS is for? I guess that would be difficult to apply to stuff that's not near the surface.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    7. Re:Adverse Events by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not a neurologist (IANAN), but as a person having all its limbs functional, I'm not sure what I would be willing to do to get them back, even at a painful price.

    8. Re:Adverse Events by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 1

      Well that's easy enough to fix; just put a firewall on it. All outbound control signals to the artificial limb (or whatever) are allowed. Inbound receptor signals are filtered and the ones that go "pain" are blocked at the firewall, just like the spam and malware from a virus-laden Windows box.

      --
      Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
    9. Re:Adverse Events by mikael · · Score: 1

      They did similar experiments with brain electrode vision. They placed a mesh of electrodes over the visual field of the brain and then gradually matched electrodes to locations in the visual field. Had to carefully balance the voltage levels as there was the risk of migraine, epilectic fit and dizziness. Main problem was that before the system was powered up, the brain had set all inputs to maximum gain in order to get visual input. Of course, there wasn't any. So when the electrodes were activated, there was a shock pulse while they renormalized.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    10. Re:Adverse Events by mikael · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the nerves in the spinal column don't regenerate. Something about the spinal fluid retarding growth or something similar.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    11. Re:Adverse Events by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nerves never regenerate. The replication structures of that are in most cells are lost in nerves. There are a few nerve stem cells in your central nervous system, but it is unknown if they do anything. If the nerve cell body is not lethally damaged, it can probably repair itself. Nerve cell axons, on the other hand, can only be repair in the peripheral nervous system. Axons are comparable to wires. This is thought to be due to that fact that a peripheral axon has a dedicated group of sheath (Schwann) cells, whereas many central axons generally share a single (sheath cell) oligodendrocyte. The sheath in the peripheral system maintains the correct path, whereas the one in the central nervous system just builds over it.

    12. Re:Adverse Events by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. As I understand it, while the signal would be entering at the interface point it could be describing pain in every part of the arm distal to the interface. In addition, pain nerves have memory (hence "ghost pains") so once the pain has been started even removing the interface and the nerve it connected to may not stop the pain, as it may be maintained closer to or inside the brain. On the other hand, there has been some success and reinitializing nerves which are locked on pain, by use of electrodes. Bearing that in mind, perhaps the best early adopters would be those who already have severe ghost pain, as adding new signal may help to alleviate it.

    13. Re:Adverse Events by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Nerves do regenerate, but at a very slow rate. About a millimeter per year, IIRC. I have feeling again in a fingertip which was smashed 90% off, though it returned very gradually over the course of a couple years. In certain experimental circumstances this can be assisted with stem cells, nutrients, and hormones.

    14. Re:Adverse Events by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd use repair over regenerate in your case. New nerves don't appear, the axon grew back out to your toe.

    15. Re:Adverse Events by Milo+Fungus · · Score: 1

      I doubt this technology will work in the spinal cord. Getting nerves to grow in the peripheral nervous system is pretty easy - they do it on their own. Damaged peripheral nerve axons regrow at a rate of about 1 mm/day, so if you damage a nerve in your armpit it will take weeks to regrow all the way down to your fingertips. Getting nerves to grow in the central nervous system (brain + spinal cord) is tricky. The molecular signaling in the central nervous system actively inhibits regrowth of damaged nerve axons, but we are learning how to experimentally manipulate that signaling to allow some axons to regrow after injury. Someday we hope to therapeutically manipulate that signaling, to help patients with spinal cord injuries, multiple sclerosis, etc.

      The nervous system is hugely complex, as you suggested. It is incomprehensibly complex. It is absolutely, beautifully complex. That's why I love it so much.

    16. Re:Adverse Events by Milo+Fungus · · Score: 1

      That is true. I offer interventions to my patients that I would never choose myself. But it is hard to predict what I would choose if I were in their shoes. (Or hospital gowns, rather.)

    17. Re:Adverse Events by Milo+Fungus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I remember reading about that on Slashdot years ago. That must have been nearly ten years ago.

  17. avatar by schlachter · · Score: 1

    Also allows for the remote control of robotic surrogates. Think Avatar.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    1. Re:avatar by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Or...Surrogates.

      Seriously we need to have a geek score penalty at this point for making a reference to Avatar when Surrogates is more appropriate. Especially since Surrogates is "harder" sci-fi.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:avatar by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure which is stupider though. Surrogates had such a fantastic concept, but threw it all away with an utterly ridiculous ending.

      Because our 'hero' can cause a few trillion dollars in economic damage, a new civil war, the return of disease, planes falling from the sky, accidents on an epic scale... and yet still somehow get away with it?

    3. Re:avatar by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I saw it as a morally ambiguous ending, you wonder if the hero is really the good guy at the end. From what I remember it would have been possible for Bruce Willis' character to get away with the crime, it would at the very least take a police investigation before they'd even know who to look for, so it's not like the cops knew he did it and didn't bother him.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:avatar by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      They had a witness who watched him, CCTV coverage of the console room and computer logs. Open and shut case - espicially with the public (those who survive) out for blood. It takes a lot for one person to achieve a body count measured in Hitlers.

      It isn't morally ambiguous, because the writers tell the viewer he is doing the right thing. It's morally dumb, because the movie's idea of 'the right thing' would actually be a global disaster of record-breaking proportions, and possibly the collapse of civilisation itsself - but the writers shy away from addressing that and instead, in the ultimate insult, just have a news reporter tell the audience that there were 'no human casualties.'

      Planes crash, cars out of control drive into houses, the power grid goes offline with controllers dead at their consoles, doctors collapse across their patients on the operating table, babies are crushed as their parent-surrogates fall on them. Disease returns. The luddites sieze their chance and riot, launching on a spree of arson and destruction across the country, uncontained by a police force too afraid of death to take them on in combat. People in care homes are left abandoned for days. Food delivery in cities becomes impossible with roads clogged solid. War, famine, pestilance and death, all unleahed by our heroic Pandora. And it's all ok, because where were NO FUCKING HUMAN CASUALTIES!

  18. When can I get a Typhoon Enhancement? by klifford · · Score: 0

    That's the point of all this research, right?

    1. Re:When can I get a Typhoon Enhancement? by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      Oh god want

    2. Re:When can I get a Typhoon Enhancement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I never asked for this..."

  19. Wrong market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ok it's cool that amputees get new organs, but jesus, people should be directing this tech at regular people.

    Would totall cut off my little index finger to interface with a pc directly. Amputees don't have money. Geeks do.

    1. Re:Wrong market by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      I want a tail.
      (hey, be glad I'm keeping my imagination reigned in for your sanity's safety...)

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  20. Inevitable consequence... by damburger · · Score: 1

    One day we will truly master the art of connecting human nervous systems to computers. And on the following day, some asshole will create the first neurological malware.

    The future is a tech-illiterate grandma driven insane by trojans, trying to claws her own eyes out just to try and make the continuous loop penis enlargement ads stop.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    1. Re:Inevitable consequence... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      You can't really hack the nervous system itself any more than you could hack an analog circuit. All the electronic stuff is fair game though, so I hope the prosthetic limb manufacturers won't be as stupid as the car manufacturers...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Inevitable consequence... by HolyCrapSCOsux · · Score: 1

      This sort of thing was posited in Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age". Resulted in suicide.

      --
      0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
  21. Call me when artifical ears are working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please let me know when the artificial ears are working. NF2 runs in my family. Current Auditory Brain Stem Implants just don't work well enough to justify the risk.

    1. Re:Call me when artifical ears are working by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      NF2 trashes the auditory nerve. This technology will be useless to you in its current form. It may, though, lead to advances in the understanding of neural encoding which will be able to improve those ABS implants.

  22. D'oh by silviuc · · Score: 1

    "Give me Deus Ex"

    1. Re:D'oh by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, you can start saving for that neuropozine today.

  23. Screw the Borg... by The_Crisis · · Score: 1

    Go-Go-Gadget [insert appendage/organ name here]!

    --
    "It is a fine line between lazy and efficient."
    1. Re:Screw the Borg... by f3rret · · Score: 1

      Go-Go-Gadget Spleen?

      --
      Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
  24. I saw this one! by vonshavingcream · · Score: 1

    This is the one where the coyote buys robot legs to chase after the roadrunner ... it didn't work out to well for him, if I remember correctly.

  25. People underestimate the power of the organic. by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    1) Organic fails WELL. By that I mean, it causes pain and minor damage before you do something stupid that destroys the entire organic object. Electronics fail badly. Little if any warning, and it operates on the performance edge, so sudden failure is usually catastrophic.

    2)Organics do minor self repair, for free (if time+ food = free). They are built to accept the minor damage it gives (see option 1) above.

    3) Organic maintenance is limited and automatic inbuilt. We call it SLEEP. Electronic maintenance involves constant attention to detail - oils, software patches, etc.

    4) Organics are evolved/designed to run far inside maximum tolerances. In extreme circumstances, they have hidden reserves that suddenly become accessible.

    5) Organics are self-replicating. No need for a factory.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      6) Organics die of disease and age.

    2. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by space+fountain · · Score: 1

      7) Organisms still last longer than most machines.

    3. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      My PC will not contract malignant cancer.

    4. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      5 complete non sequiturs. The thrust of the article is in helping amputees.

    5. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      On the other hand:

      - Organics do not use interchangeable parts. You can make it work with horrible immunosurpressent hackery, but it's messy.

      That really outweighs everything else. If the new robo-arm breaks, you take it to the shop where they figure out which component has failed, yank it out and stick in a new one. Maintainance is only a problem if you are going somewhere isolated where you won't be able to get it to an expert easily to do the diagnosis.

    6. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      The general feeling I get is that the poster is making a pre-emptive strike against arguments in favor of voluntary amputation for mechanical augmentation. Which really doesn't work well as a brand new comment, since the hints of such sentiments are present in other comment threads already. In any case, better a mech limb than no limb.

    7. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      Whereas if you get leprosy in your non-robo-arm, or some other terrible thing ..

    8. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      No, but it could get an embedded trojan and allow some dude in China to control it.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    9. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by DC2088 · · Score: 1

      My PC has a power switch and I can yank the CAT-5 out of the back of it. If I get cancer, I can't disconnect from the cancer servers until maintenance is performed. Or something. This analogy is getting difficult.

    10. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6) Organics that are not there anymore are, well, not available ... The choice is not "this or organic". The choice is "this or nothing".

    11. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand:

      pun intended?

    12. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      inorganics die of age, and exposure tot he elments (rust, sunlight, heat, etc.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    13. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      You don't have a twin do you? Some organics have interchangeable parts. We are working hard at cloning to solve that problem for the rest of us.

      As for outweighing the rest, you are outright WRONG.

      My entire argument was that the robo-arms break while the organic do NOT break.

      Maintenance is a problem ALL the time. Ask any car mechanic. A properly maintained car - even a lemon - will last a lifetime (80 years, or 8 million miles). An improperly maintained one breaks down after a couple of years and/or 100,000 miles. Guess how often most cars last?

      Maintenance is NOT easy to do or diagnosis for robotic arms.

      You ignored my points by falsely stating they don't matter. Support your belief with something besides bullcrap.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    14. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The robo-arm doesn't need 100% uptime. Sure, it'll break, but that's acceptable because it's easily fixed. The worst case would be it's something the call-out mechanic can't fix, and you have to go armless for a week while they ship you a new one.

      I'm assuming the technology is standardised and common enough that you can actually call out the mechanic when it goes wrong, rather than have to wait for the arm's designer to come in person.

    15. Re:People underestimate the power of the organic. by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      In short:
      If a machine fails: it can crash an require intervention. (generally)
      If an organic fails: it slowly degrades itself, having chance to fix whatever might be wrong, or at least notify someone. (generally)

  26. Name by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    The scientists have developed a new interface consisting of a porous, flexible, conductive, biocompatible material through which nerve fibers can grow and act as a sort of junction through which nerve impulses can pass to the prosthesis and data from the prosthesis back to the nerve.

    And they call it: Conjunction Junction.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  27. Bionics? by lymond01 · · Score: 1

    While a bionic arm might be able to move faster, would possibly be more durable, and could be designed to crush those really formidable keg cans between bicep and forearm, it won't convey the owner with the power to lift cars. Connected merely to bone and muscle, a mere human anatomy wouldn't support a car's weight, and the arm would likely just tear itself free (that being said, consider that people *have* lifted cars and it goes to show just how amazing our own body is). You would need support to the floor, perhaps running down the back connected to bionic legs, etc. Still, getting punched by a bunch of metal can't be good, and all you future Dr. Doom's should be wary.

  28. What, no Darth Vader comments yet? Come on! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah yeah, I'm your father and all, but hey, check out this cool robot arm I have. Someday, son, you'll have one too.

  29. Let's all be realistic by JustNilt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If this new interface is successful

    As with so many articles I see about "breakthroughs", this is the key bit. The researchers probably just needed another round of funding so they released some information about it. Call me when we actually have serious trials and it's about to start final testing.

    --
    You know the thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get it or not.
  30. Prior Art by blueforce · · Score: 2

    This has been done already a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

    --
    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  31. Nice... by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1

    Nice but, I'll be even more impressed the day we learn how to regrow limbs.

  32. What to fear more? by kawabago · · Score: 1

    Entering the matrix or becoming Borg.

  33. We had this in the 70s by djKing · · Score: 1

    Major issue was the strange sounds that went with it when in operation, that and time seemed to slow down. Was somewhat expensive, costing ~6 million to out fit a person with a few limbs. Hope this is an improvement.

    --
    Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
  34. What about other nerves? by Sez+Zero · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this eventually could have ramifications for certain cases of vision and hearing loss.

  35. Borg? Pah! Just watch where you're putting that... by Dusty101 · · Score: 1
  36. Re:What, no Darth Vader comments yet? Come on! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One day, son, all this will be yours.

  37. proof of intelligent design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    random mutations are harmful the odds of one being beneficial are Infinitesimal.

  38. Voluntary prosthetics? Would you give up a finger? by Polo · · Score: 1

    ...would you give up a finger to get a virtual finger interface?

    Just think of the possibilities...

  39. oh, I don't BELIEVE it! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I'd look at it more like a robot LEG plus bonus Vicodin for the pain.

    good grief, can't you do anything right?!!!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  40. Bubba Ho-Tep is about a mummy! by Dareth · · Score: 1

    Bubba Ho-Tep is about a mummy and it has Elvis and JFK!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  41. My add-on would be by P-niiice · · Score: 1

    I want a windshield wiper wired into my crotch for obvious reasons.

  42. Re:Voluntary prosthetics? Would you give up a fing by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

    No, but I would give my left arm!

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  43. Memory! by angiasaa · · Score: 1

    I'm going to be waiting impatiently for the second run of RAM and ROM implants. I'm guessing the first batch will have naughty flaws. :)

    --
    Geekism is your _only_ God!
  44. "Cyber-sex" has a new meaning with 100% more rape! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But first it will happen in Japan, and us foreigners will think it's weird at first but then catch on just like tentacle porn.

  45. self-replication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I especially like the self-replication part. No way i am going to exchange that against implants... :D