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TSA 'Warning' Media About Reporting On Body Scanner Failures?

OverTheGeicoE writes "When anti-TSA activist Jonathan Corbett exposed a severe weakness in TSA's body scanners, one would expect the story to attract a lot of media attention. Apparently TSA is attempting to stop reporters from covering the story. According to Corbett, at least one reporter has been 'strongly cautioned' by TSA spokeswoman Sari Koshetz not to cover the story. If TSA is worried that this is new information they need to suppress to keep it away from terrorists, that horse may have left the barn years ago. Corbett's demonstration may just be confirmation of a 2010 paper in the Journal of Transportation Security that concluded that 'an object such as a wire or a boxcutter blade, taped to the side of the body, or even a small gun in the same location, will be invisible' to X-ray scanners."

66 of 465 comments (clear)

  1. Warned about what? by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What where the consequences they where threatened with?

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Warned about what? by Marillion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're probably appealing to a sense of patriotic responsibility to keep it hidden. The old "Loose Lips Sink Ships" mantra. I call BS.

      --
      This is a boring sig
    2. Re:Warned about what? by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Guantanimo? Enemy combatants? Declared enemies of the state by the Pres., shot in the head and buried in an unmarked grave?

      Unlikely, yes. But now "legal" under Bush/Obama.

      --
      This space available.
    3. Re:Warned about what? by forkfail · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a three letter agency cautions you with unspecified malice, even if they can't (yet) drag you out of your house at night, you know they can make your life difficult...

      --
      Check your premises.
    4. Re:Warned about what? by Kenja · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sorry, but a private citizen with no legal enforcement power (which TSA is and lacks) can not declare you an enemy of the state and have you sent to Guantanamo.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:Warned about what? by forkfail · · Score: 5, Informative

      They can send you to jail for not cooperating (or even citing the constitution at them), prevent you from traveling freely and deny you the right to exit the country. They can put you on watch lists that make the "more traditional" TLA's pay attention to you. And their influence is spreading.

      So, yes, they are.

      --
      Check your premises.
    6. Re:Warned about what? by mr100percent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "having you killed" suggestion is overblown, but I'm sure the TSA could realistically add you to No-Fly lists, just because.

    7. Re:Warned about what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Totally by coincidence your tax returns get audited. If you have kids, child protection services shows up at your door with complaints about child abuse. Every time you do a rolling stop a cop is right there to give you a ticket. As a journalist, every time you try to attend a press conference there seems to be no more space left, sorry. Your usual contacts at the police force run out of scoops to feed you. If you try to cover a protest you're one of the first to be arrested. The list goes on... None of which has any relation to the fact that you covered an "unpopular" story, of course.

    8. Re:Warned about what? by msauve · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The more citizens who fight the system, the harder it is for them to do any of that. What happens if/when there are 10,000,000 names on the Do Not Fly list?

      Whatever happened to the principles the US was founded on? "Live Free or Die," "Don't Tread On Me," "Liberty or Death?" We've become a country of Bread and Circuses consuming, Entitlement gratified proles.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:Warned about what? by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, they cant. But they could recommend to Homeland Security that you be added, and odds are they would just rubber stamp it.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    10. Re:Warned about what? by artor3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      But I thought that if we see something, we're supposed to say something?

    11. Re:Warned about what? by jonamous++ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Except the KGB actually had some badasses in it. Have you seen TSA agents? I could make a run for it and still get on the plane, stow my carry-on and calmly wait for takeoff before they managed to make it to the gate.

    12. Re:Warned about what? by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative

      "10k names is a small number to search against."

      Innumeracy runs rampant. You're off by a factor of 1000. 10,000,000 (that's 10 million, since you apparently can't parse digits) is a very significant fraction of the (frequently) flying public.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    13. Re:Warned about what? by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Informative

      The flaw was exposed in February 2011 by an undercover TSA agent. He tested a known, unpatched, exploit.

      Here's more links to stories.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    14. Re:Warned about what? by ArieKremen · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...but there is nothing to see, ergo you're not supposed to say anything! Being consequent helps.

      --
      -- Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui
    15. Re:Warned about what? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's inhumane. Nobody deserves light opera.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    16. Re:Warned about what? by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What where the consequences they where threatened with?

      Reporters might find it hard to advance in their profession when they're on the no-fly list.

    17. Re:Warned about what? by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um, TSA is a branch of Homeland Security. They don't need arrest powers, they just pass the request up the line and whoever is disappeared.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    18. Re:Warned about what? by Johann+Lau · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course it's BS. Think about it. Before this stuff, you couldn't get that easily on board with a gun or box cutters. Now it's become *easier* than before. Streamlined access for terrorists and undercover government peeps, PITA for the rest. That's what taking a long hard look at this would reveal, it would make a whole lot of bluffs quite obvious. It threatens a house of cards. So.... who are these clowns to give advice to anyone? They should shut the fuck up, say "thank you" and "sorry", work until they paid the money they squandered back, and then go to jail for life. That would be the *beginning* of something remotely sensible.

    19. Re:Warned about what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a weird definition of "they can't".

    20. Re:Warned about what? by blueg3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's right. American citizens are being disappeared by the government on a daily basis. Apparently either their friends and family never notice or Big Media is in on it and so you never see a story about it...

  2. Probably not suppressed for Terrorists. by macaran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would kind of suspect they know terrorists are already aware of the vulnerability, more likely they just don't want random Joe smoe smuggling a miniaturized gun onboard because he can, and then having an armed civilian on the flight if something goes wrong in the air.

    1. Re:Probably not suppressed for Terrorists. by zlives · · Score: 5, Insightful

      or that we the sheep might object to yet more tax dollars spent on perceived security...

    2. Re:Probably not suppressed for Terrorists. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What terrorists?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Probably not suppressed for Terrorists. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You should watch Fox News from time to time. Been watching the real news shows again, right?

      Please, tune in to the propaganda, you're getting so out of the loop.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. Easy fix? by casualsax3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Aside from just scrapping them entirely, wouldn't this be a non-issue if they just had the traveler rotate 90 degrees and repeated the scan?

    1. Re:Easy fix? by Marillion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh sure. So you're advocating doubling the radiation dosage from a device that more than a few radiation experts are concerned about. Various pilot unions are very concerned about the amount of radiation their members are being exposed to.

      --
      This is a boring sig
    2. Re:Easy fix? by casualsax3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, I think the entire program should be scrapped both because of the health hazards, and because it's a gross invasion of privacy. If they're hell bent on keeping it around though, the least they could do is make it work properly. I'd rather be exposed to a double dose of radiation if it actually made me safer, as opposed to the status quo which is one shot for theater's sake.

    3. Re:Easy fix? by HolyCrapSCOsux · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's what metal detectors do. I fly a lot. these go thusly:
      wait, get in, put your feet on the prints (rotated 90 degrees from normal walking direction), hold up your arms
      wait for the scanner to swipe through it's arc.
      get out
      wait on another set of footprints

      total time 20-45 seconds per scan.

      --
      0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
    4. Re:Easy fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even if it was working as advertised, was free, didn't inconvenience you at all, wasn't an illegal search, and didn't have health risks... would it actually make you safer?

    5. Re:Easy fix? by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A double dose of cyanide will completely prevent any future terrorists from harming you.

    6. Re:Easy fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Honestly, I feel bad for the people who work around the machines. There's no shielding. When TSA agents start getting cancer, part of me will feel bad for them. But part of me will be laughing hysterically.

    7. Re:Easy fix? by artor3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Someone who has actually used one of these could probably confirm or deny this...

      As someone who has actually used one of these (many times), my answer is a solid "deny". You don't just walk through these scanners the way you do with the metal detectors. You walk in, turn to the side, spread your legs, put your hands in the air, and hold that position for about five seconds. They slow down the lines immensely. If you then had to turn another 90 degrees and hold for another five seconds, it would make things even worse.

      Considering that the scanners don't even detect the sort of threat they were rolled out in response to (the underwear bomber), they should just be scrapped entirely, and the government should do everything in its power to find a loophole in the contract to get some of our money back.

    8. Re:Easy fix? by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Informative

      Better yet, they could change the background to be white instead of black by changing the reflective properties of the material behind the person, thereby allowing metal strapped to one's sides to stand out.

      But I work on millimeter waves in my day job, so don't believe a word I say.

      --
      The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    9. Re:Easy fix? by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The radiation dosage received from the scanner is still less than what you get from the flight itself. If you are that worried about radiation, you probably don't want to be on the plane in the first place.

      Ok, two things:
      1. I need to get from A to B when I get on the plane. There is a perceived benefit and there is some incurred cost. Seeing how not a single one of these machines is know to have stopped a single terrorist, there is no perceived benefit to match going through the machine
      2. You say that radiation dose is miniscule. TSA says that radiation dose is miniscule. Others say that due to improper calibration (how many of TSA employees are qualified to calibrate a medlical-like device?) or due to other factors the radiation received may be 10X or 100X higher than the "optimal". TSA had refused to do a health study, so even assuming I trust everyone equally, that's a 50-50 risk that TSA assertion is wrong.

    10. Re:Easy fix? by slippyblade · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And you say this on what grounds? The dosages that the machines give out is "Classified for National Security Purposes". They won't tell you how much you are getting dosed. It's illegal for them to tell you. Hell, if you listen to the TSA tell it, it's "the same as getting an ultrasound"

    11. Re:Easy fix? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      But how do we get every TSA worker to swallow it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Easy fix? by Drgnkght · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Anyone know if anyone has ever tried to go through one with a film badge dosimeter or something similar? That might prove very interesting.

  4. TSA has this covered. by Xandrax · · Score: 5, Funny

    Much like the underwear bomber, TSA has this all planned out.

    1. Allow terrorist onboard with a weapon hidden at his side.
    2. Civilians on plane stop terrorist when he attempts to take over plane.
    3. TSA announces that the system worked.

    These "reporters" are clearly interfering with step #1.

  5. Stupid constitution. by zippo01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Conversation between TSA and reporter. TSA:You really don't want to run that story about the billions wasted on ineffective airport body scanners. On a side note I hear Guantanamo Bay is nice this time of year, me and the wife are thinking of taking a trip. Reporter: Don't I have constitutional rights of free speech and what not. TSA: Don't worry about that. I mean, we ignored them when we put the scanners in anyway, didn't we. Reporter: Oh yeah.

  6. the TSA is unconstitutional as heck! by FudRucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    not only are they searching people without probable cause, the airlines should be left to police themselves so the tax payers wont have to pay for it, let the airline customers pay for it...

    I will stay away from the airports if the TSA stays out of my pants, and I refuse to step in to your xray cancer machines.

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:the TSA is unconstitutional as heck! by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      yes i do, thats why airline security should be privatized and run by the airlines themselves at the expense of the airlines/customers and not the tax payers, the TSA is just another expensive bloated ineffective bureaucracy we all have to pay for

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  7. They're hardly perfect by Kjella · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember back in 2002 I had this huge inner door house key, like really big old fashioned solid iron thing. It ended up being in my pocket as I walked through the metal detector, so I just clenched it in my palm thinking I'll have to show it anyway. Passed right through, not a beep. It was big enough it'd easily be the blade of a pretty good knife. And it beeped for some other passengers so it wasn't defective either. Of course this was after 9/11 so everybody was on their toes, I showed it to a friend and he was like "Seriously? You got to be kidding me..." but it happened.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:They're hardly perfect by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Luckily, neither brass nor bronze are of any value for either holding an edge or inflicting blunt trauma...

      And no need to even mention ceramics or the fancier plastics, that shit is totally harmless.

    2. Re:They're hardly perfect by marcosdumay · · Score: 4, Informative

      They aren't iron detectors, they are metal detectors.

      In fact, they'd detect bronze better than steel.

    3. Re:They're hardly perfect by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Man, I once got through with a few unused razor blades in my carry-on I had left there by mistake. I don't know if it was the cardboard covering or what, but they weren't even inside my bag, it was one of those backpacks with the mesh pockets and you could see them right through it. Got right through.

      Meanwhile, my sister-in-law, who is permanently disabled due to being wounded in Iraq, has 10 pounds of metal in her leg, and has to walk with a cane, she gets a ration of shit every single fucking time we go through the airport. They try to take not only her cane, but her damn knee brace every single time, saying it could be used as a weapon, but the best part is, when she complains and makes a scene, they always wave her through, which really makes me want to ask (if I wanted to end up in a windowless room when my plane takes off, that is): If it truly could be used as a weapon and is dangerous, why the fuck is complaining enough to get waved through? And if it's not, why the fuck do they stop her and try to take it from her every time she goes through security?

      The TSA is a fucking joke...

    4. Re:They're hardly perfect by slippyblade · · Score: 4, Funny

      I typed out an entire response about the Bronze Age before I realized you were being sarcastic... My sensor is busted today I guess.

    5. Re:They're hardly perfect by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone here who doesn't know yet that the whole TSA is mostly a job creation project? No? Good.

      Let's be blunt and honest here: These people have close to zero training in security, they have near zero training in the technology they use and they are most certainly not chosen for their people skills, their intelligence or their ability to work efficiently.

      If they had ANY of those qualities, they could have a real job!

      It's a job creation program for people who are generally unemployable.

      Gee, I hope I didn't just spill a national secret...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. BS? Barbara Streisand? by HiggsBison · · Score: 5, Funny

    I call BS.

    I was wondering who would bring up the Barbara Streisand Effect first.

    So now, Barbara Streisand is a Terrorist!

    --
    My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
    1. Re:BS? Barbara Streisand? by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh yes, didn't you know? Between gigs, she flies her pink six-wheeled Ford to some island in the Pacific, where she sips Pernod by the pool, and launches rocket planes with tiny puppet vigilantes in them who terrorise world governments and bring Freedom to their asses.

    2. Re:BS? Barbara Streisand? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Gee, you notice that now? I heard her sing, that was proof enough!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Re:hello tsa: by Voogru · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't worry, they will have their checkpoints soon enough so they can grope her.

  10. have you read The Interrogators by decora · · Score: 4, Interesting

    because thats pretty much what happened in Afghanistan in 2002, and how we got people like Khalid Sheik Mohammad put in the same facility with random teenagers and goat herders.

  11. Where is the text? by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm interested to see the text of this email. It's hard to judge just how egregious this behavior is without seeing the actual text.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  12. FoxNews is covering the story by McGruber · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:FoxNews is covering the story by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obama is president, which means government is bad. As soon as a Republican is in the White House, government will go back to being good.

      That is, according to Fox.

  13. TSA needs to be disbanded with prejudice by fnj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The TSA needs to be disbanded at once with prejudice. It is nothing but kabuki theater masking fascism. It has no place in the America of our founders.

  14. It is not about the truth it is about perception by cygtoad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The TSA doesn't care if the backscatter scanner doesn't detect contraband. They don't even care if the terrorists know it. They don't want the general public at large knowing it because this kind of thing really messes up the security theater magic act. They also don't want to answer the accusations of exposing passengers to radiation for a less than perfect technology.

    I saw a sign in the airport las weekend. "The backscatter scanner exposes you the same amount of radiation as you receive in two minutes in the airplane". Yeah but think of it this way; standing on a beach on a sunny day would you accept someone telling you that you were going to get a sun blast equal to two minutes in the sun in two seconds? Radiation doesn't always hurt bit it is always harmful to your DNA. There is a reason heath care providers put a limit on the number of X-rays you get in year.

  15. I have an easier fix by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Use the fucking metal detectors that are already there! They work great. They'll pick up any gun, even a small one. No, there is no gun that has no metal in it (nor bullets). What's more metal detectors are 100% within the range of TSA intelligence to use: Green = person ok, go through. Red + beep = person not ok. Even the untrained morons in the TSA can deal with that. The scanners though, they require knowledge an interpretation. You are presented with an image and you have to interpret it.

    That is why so many people get sent for patdowns. Not because they found something but because they can't tell what they fuck they are looking at. They can't interpret the results.

    The answer is in what they already have. Metal detectors work great. There's a reason why people like, say, the Secret Service uses metal detectors, and not these scanners.

    1. Re:I have an easier fix by waferbuster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sigh. Have you ever held a glock? What material do you suppose the slide (you know, that thingy on the top that goes back and forth each time it goes bang) is made of? That's right... Steel. Which is a metal. How about the barrel? Oh yeah, that's steel too. Recoil spring? I'll give you a hint... steel. Should I go on?

      But you're half right... the frame is made of... polymer. A fancy name for plastic. So if you separated the slide from the frame, and took all the little movable metal parts out of the frame, then the frame probably wouldn't set off the metal detector (the little metal inserts molded into the frame are probably too small to set off the walk-thru metal detector).
      Summary: Glocks (and all other mainstream guns) have major parts made of metal. More metal than a belt buckle. If a beltbuckle sets of the metal detector, so will a gun. Even a glock.

      http://xkcd.com/386/

      --
      I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!
    2. Re:I have an easier fix by spasm · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The Glock 23 has no metal parts"

      Umm.. "The Glock's frame, magazine body and several other components are made from a high-strength nylon-based polymer invented by Gaston Glock and called Polymer 2.[34] .. The injection molded frame contains 4 hardened steel guide rails for the slide: two at the rear of the frame, and the remaining pair above and in front of the trigger guard. .. The frame houses the locking block, which is an investment casting that engages a 45 camming surface on the barrel's lower camming lug. It is retained in the frame by a steel axis pin that holds the trigger and slide catch. .. A spring-loaded sheet metal pressing serves as the slide catch, which is secured from unintentional manipulation by a raised guard molded into the frame."

  16. Osama must be laughing in his grave. by Brad1138 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could he have ever imagined the repercussions of his attack. On so many levels, from more government ie: the dept of Home land security, to the ridiculousness of what we have to go through to fly. The whole country (or at least government) running around worrying about terrorists and the incredible expense it incurs. Our image around the world.... It goes on and on. He single-handedly turned the the U.S. into a near bankrupt, joke.

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
    1. Re:Osama must be laughing in his grave. by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      didn't you listen to Bush.

      they hate us for our freedoms

      if we eliminate all our freedoms they won't hate us anymore

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:Osama must be laughing in his grave. by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Could he have ever imagined the repercussions of his attack?

      He did. Read "bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America". This was written before 9/11, and includes many of bin Laden's own comments. He recognized that America was too strong to take down, and had to be weakened internally first. His plan was to destroy America's moral authority in the world. He wanted a more oppressive and heavy-handed America, to help build hate and opposition in the rest of the world. That was the objective of his terrorism.

      He succeeded.

      It's hard to remember now, but just before 9/11, the US didn't have any serious enemies. The big players, Russia, China, Japan, and the European Union, were on good terms with the US. The Middle East was intimidated, but reassured by the fact that, once the US was finished liberating Kuwait, all the US troops packed up and went home.

      If the US had simply focused on cleaning up the mess and finding bin Laden, we would have been far better off.

    3. Re:Osama must be laughing in his grave. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's actually pretty accurate.

      In the 90s of the last century, the US were the big winner of the cold war. The Soviet Union folded and Russia snuggled up with the US. Former East Bloc countries in Europe trampled over each other in the desperate attempt to be the first to get a foot into NATO, China was pretty happy to have a business partner, India was happy to be an outsourcing partner, the Middle East was ok with the US, after all the only country there the US smacked about was the one that didn't want to create an Islamic nation, in general, the only countries that weren't in love with the US were North Korea and Cuba. And, bluntly, who gives half a crap about them? And the rest was pretty swell too, the industry powerhorse of the world, the pinnacle of freedom and opportunity, everyone's darling. For real.

      Now, twenty years later, the US are in a crisis, nationally and internationally. Debt skyrockets because of military expenses, industry struggles and China is laughing their ass off while shipping cheap crap over, internationally the US are seen as the schoolyard bully that everyone only plays nice with because they fear to be the next to get smacked about... The US sure went a long way downhill.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  17. The Juggernaut cannot be stopped by bradley13 · · Score: 4

    I have to agree with the posters above. In the 1990s, after winning the "cold war", the US was triumphant and popular. Apparently this went to the heads of the politicians. While there was brief talk about scaling back military expenditures (since they were not necessary anymore), instead the US scaled up, and started looking for places to use that military. 9/11 was a huge boon to those who wanted to go this way, and they have taken full advantage of it. The US now spends nearly as much on its military as the entire rest of the world combined. Internationally, the US behaves like a schoolyard bully - a bully utterly convinced of his own righteousness.

    What I find saddest about this whole situation: most people I know in the USA don't have the faintest inkling of this. "Look at all the good we do." "The Iraqis should be thankful we got rid of Hussein for them." Etc.. It's really unbelievable.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.