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TSA 'Warning' Media About Reporting On Body Scanner Failures?
OverTheGeicoE writes "When anti-TSA activist Jonathan Corbett exposed a severe weakness in TSA's body scanners, one would expect the story to attract a lot of media attention. Apparently TSA is attempting to stop reporters from covering the story. According to Corbett, at least one reporter has been 'strongly cautioned' by TSA spokeswoman Sari Koshetz not to cover the story. If TSA is worried that this is new information they need to suppress to keep it away from terrorists, that horse may have left the barn years ago. Corbett's demonstration may just be confirmation of a 2010 paper in the Journal of Transportation Security that concluded that 'an object such as a wire or a boxcutter blade, taped to the side of the body, or even a small gun in the same location, will be invisible' to X-ray scanners."
What where the consequences they where threatened with?
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I would kind of suspect they know terrorists are already aware of the vulnerability, more likely they just don't want random Joe smoe smuggling a miniaturized gun onboard because he can, and then having an armed civilian on the flight if something goes wrong in the air.
Aside from just scrapping them entirely, wouldn't this be a non-issue if they just had the traveler rotate 90 degrees and repeated the scan?
Much like the underwear bomber, TSA has this all planned out.
1. Allow terrorist onboard with a weapon hidden at his side.
2. Civilians on plane stop terrorist when he attempts to take over plane.
3. TSA announces that the system worked.
These "reporters" are clearly interfering with step #1.
Conversation between TSA and reporter. TSA:You really don't want to run that story about the billions wasted on ineffective airport body scanners. On a side note I hear Guantanamo Bay is nice this time of year, me and the wife are thinking of taking a trip. Reporter: Don't I have constitutional rights of free speech and what not. TSA: Don't worry about that. I mean, we ignored them when we put the scanners in anyway, didn't we. Reporter: Oh yeah.
not only are they searching people without probable cause, the airlines should be left to police themselves so the tax payers wont have to pay for it, let the airline customers pay for it...
I will stay away from the airports if the TSA stays out of my pants, and I refuse to step in to your xray cancer machines.
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Cuz that would make me threatened.
I remember back in 2002 I had this huge inner door house key, like really big old fashioned solid iron thing. It ended up being in my pocket as I walked through the metal detector, so I just clenched it in my palm thinking I'll have to show it anyway. Passed right through, not a beep. It was big enough it'd easily be the blade of a pretty good knife. And it beeped for some other passengers so it wasn't defective either. Of course this was after 9/11 so everybody was on their toes, I showed it to a friend and he was like "Seriously? You got to be kidding me..." but it happened.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
First impulse, I almost immediately forwarded the link to the friendly local radio host.
Second impulse, now I am sure I am going to drive to New York instead of flying( I was a little on the fence because gf was complaining )
Still,. FTG
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I call BS.
I was wondering who would bring up the Barbara Streisand Effect first.
So now, Barbara Streisand is a Terrorist!
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
Shamai Leibowitz, Jeffrey Sterling, Siobhan Gorman, Diane Roark, and Jesselyn Radack.
because thats pretty much what happened in Afghanistan in 2002, and how we got people like Khalid Sheik Mohammad put in the same facility with random teenagers and goat herders.
i mean dont prisoners make plastic weapons all the time out of toothbrushes and stuff?
I'm interested to see the text of this email. It's hard to judge just how egregious this behavior is without seeing the actual text.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I recently went through a major southeast U.S. airport. When I stated my desire to opt out of the millimeter scanner, the TSA agent tried to convince me otherwise. When I stated my desire to opt out again, she deadpan "joked" it is $20 extra screening fee for a pat down (but relented after a further exchange). I would not be surprised if supervisors suggested their agents try that to discourage as many people from opting out as possible to make the numbers look better in their favor.
FoxNews is covering the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/08/blogger-shows-world-how-to-sneak-anything-past-tsas-nude-body-scanners/
I'm impressed.
The TSA needs to be disbanded at once with prejudice. It is nothing but kabuki theater masking fascism. It has no place in the America of our founders.
The TSA doesn't care if the backscatter scanner doesn't detect contraband. They don't even care if the terrorists know it. They don't want the general public at large knowing it because this kind of thing really messes up the security theater magic act. They also don't want to answer the accusations of exposing passengers to radiation for a less than perfect technology.
I saw a sign in the airport las weekend. "The backscatter scanner exposes you the same amount of radiation as you receive in two minutes in the airplane". Yeah but think of it this way; standing on a beach on a sunny day would you accept someone telling you that you were going to get a sun blast equal to two minutes in the sun in two seconds? Radiation doesn't always hurt bit it is always harmful to your DNA. There is a reason heath care providers put a limit on the number of X-rays you get in year.
Use the fucking metal detectors that are already there! They work great. They'll pick up any gun, even a small one. No, there is no gun that has no metal in it (nor bullets). What's more metal detectors are 100% within the range of TSA intelligence to use: Green = person ok, go through. Red + beep = person not ok. Even the untrained morons in the TSA can deal with that. The scanners though, they require knowledge an interpretation. You are presented with an image and you have to interpret it.
That is why so many people get sent for patdowns. Not because they found something but because they can't tell what they fuck they are looking at. They can't interpret the results.
The answer is in what they already have. Metal detectors work great. There's a reason why people like, say, the Secret Service uses metal detectors, and not these scanners.
Could he have ever imagined the repercussions of his attack. On so many levels, from more government ie: the dept of Home land security, to the ridiculousness of what we have to go through to fly. The whole country (or at least government) running around worrying about terrorists and the incredible expense it incurs. Our image around the world.... It goes on and on. He single-handedly turned the the U.S. into a near bankrupt, joke.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
TSA is just pissed someone exposed a known design flaw in the hardware they use and now they're trying to minimize public knowledge of it.
1) not wanting to bow to authoritarian pigs
2) not wanting to die of skin cancer
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
They are not body scanners. They are xray scanners. The only reason they call them 'body scanners' is to confuse people, because people know what xrays are, and people know that xrays are dangerous. But what is a body scanner? People don't know. Call it what it is. A dangerous xray machine that is being irresponsibly used on the public for the enrichment of the private companies OSI and Rapiscan.
Perhaps people are just upset about incompetence and having their freedoms violated?
at least one reporter has been 'strongly cautioned' by TSA spokeswoman Sari Koshetz not to cover the story.
Or else what? They'll be put on the no fly list? Singled out for additional screening at airports? So then TSA procedures are really just some sort of punishment or retribution. Misbehave and they'll have the guy with the fat fingers do your next cavity search.
Have gnu, will travel.
Because the TSA workers would steal them.
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
Zirconium of very close to the same compostion as the PSZ (partially stabilised zirconium) knives is used as the filter on a lot of scientific x-ray equipment (eg. x-ray diffraction). By very close I mean a small fraction of 1%. It wouldn't be used for that purpose if it significantly blocked x-rays so it's unlikely to show up in an image.
If it's good enough for top sushi chefs to use to cut up a big tuna then it's definitely good enough for a weapon.
I've been told after I got some glass fragments in my elbow that glass doesn't show up on medical x-rays, so if that's true then the "Snow Crash" glass knife plot would also defeat x-ray scanners. If it isn't true there was a lot of poking around with long sharp needles for nothing.
Don't you dare even think about telling the Emperor that his new clothes are bogus and that he's actually stark raving naked... or else you'll get your head chopped off.
Want to stop the TSA from ever groping another child (or, for that matter, you)? Easy. Let me tell you a little secret: The TSA agents do not have police powers . That's right, they cannot arrest you. They may threaten to do so, but if they actually want you arrested they have to call a real cop. A cop from the jurisdiction in which the airport is located.
So here's how the revolution will work: If even a half dozen people a day refuse to be searched or groped at a major airport, the TSA will have to call the local police, and ask them to arrest the "violators". The first interesting question is, will the real cops co-operate and arrest you? The second question is, if they arrest you, what will be the charges? If the local police do arrest you and think of some charges that might stick, will the local D.A., who is, after all, a politician, want to prosecute you? I doubt it; a string of convictions against hapless travelers who bravely stood up the the Federal tyranny will get him very few votes in the next election.
People don't seem to realize just how shaky this whole airport TSA tyranny is: it ultimately rests on the threat that local authorities will be willing to deal with people who give the TSA the finger, yet it is not in the interest of those local authorities to help the TSA. Quite the opposite. You might want to pick the target jurisdiction carefully. I would avoid Cook county (Chicago), for example. Because the first few people to do this will probably get arrested and spend a night in jail, you will want to research local attitudes and jail conditions. After the first dozen or so, the local D.A. will almost certainly decide to put a halt to the spectacle, and declare that he will no longer do the TSA's dirty work for them.
Let me be very clear on this: I am not suggesting that anyone do anything illegal. It's not illegal to insist that the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution be observed. Be polite to the cops, do not give them any reason to arrest you on their own, or to pile on charges (like resisting arrest). It would be good if someone nearby happened to have a video of the arrest.
I thought he had some saw blades in a cylinder on the inside of his coat.
I'm also worried about the amount of radiation my member is being exposed to!
OK...but I am concerned that these machines are essentially operated by untrained people who have no concern at all for the safety of those passing through them. The machines themselves were produced for "national security" and as such were most likely granted all kinds of waivers to radiation safety regulations. I won't go through them and I don't trust TSA to be doing any kind of regular checks or maintenance on them, except when they fail to show an image.
Damn them all to hell! :)
Having never been in one of these things, and assuming I understand the exploit correctly, couldn't you just have people randomly stand either directly forward, or at a 45 degree angle? If you don't know which position you are going to get, you can't place an object so that it's hidden, yes? A simple change to procedure and problem solved.
Oh yes please! If I didn't fly, I wouldn't have any sex life anymore!
(just a note: TSA goons do NOT like that phrase...)
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Oh, that's easy to explain. There are a few factors that get the people's panties in a knot.
First, it's the whole security theater. A system that is proven to be flawed to the point of being utterly and completely useless, but expensive. And we have to foot that bill. We have to pay for those scanners, the TSA goons, the whole theater and its cast and crew. And we don't even like the show one bit, it's tedious and they keep playing the same bit for a decade. Even Cats was boring after that long.
Second, the threat of cancer. Or rather, the fact that we don't get to hear whether there is a threat. Why not? Why are we being subjected to a procedure that is flawed and not able to accomplish its intended goal, while at the same time being possibly dangerous to your health? See, people could and would accept it if there was a benefit. We know that we could die in a car crash, still we drive with cars. The good (being able to get from A to B fast) outweighs the bad (the chance of dying because some drunk idiot hits my car). This is not the case here. There is no good (intended goal not being met) while there might be a bad (threat of cancer).
Third, the time loss. When I was young (yeah, get offa my lawn) it was enough to get to the airport about 30 minutes before your flight, at least if it was a domestic flight. Today you better get there a few hours early. And if you plan to go international, consider spending the better part of your day on the airport. This is by no means in any relation to the gain. Which is essentially zero.
This is what the rage is about. Not that we get groped. Actually, the whole point is that we'd PREFER to get groped to being scanned. But only as much as we'd prefer being shot to being crucified.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wearing a sportscoat through security. I was flagged and pulled aside because I was carrying--some sweat on my back. At the time, these things had been in operation for about a day. They security guy informed me that it was probably just a bit of sweat it detected (I guess he had seen the same thing happen before?). Nice to know that if sweaty terrorists come into an airport that they will also be hassled.
You sound boring and inexperienced.
my bet is that they knew these naked scanners where not effective all along, but rapiscan cannot keep selling these things if the word gets out.
give everyone who boards a powerful sedative after their pass is scanned. (except for pilots and crew of course). anyone not knocked out is a terrorist who took a powerful stimulant prior to boarding, and can be tied down and blindfolded. no one would have to be afraid of terrorists or turbulence.
Why can't you scan people twice at two different angles (a la mugshots)? Then any weapons strapped to the side of the person will be revealed.
Because people are already concerned about the amount of exposure they are getting from one scan, let alone two.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
(especially given their general ineptitude, it'll probably be a naively-implemented MySQL database on an old P4
Apparently you are too familiar with how government ineptitude works. Most likely it'll be a naively-implemented MySQL database on a brand new sparkling 128 core supercomputer, bought and paid for by the persecuted.
Dude, everyone who'd want to push anyone down the elevator shaft already knows it.
The only thing that could happen if it becomes public knowledge is that people know to stay away from elevator shafts when someone's operating the coke machine.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I long for the days where you could feel comfortable sneaking a few joints through the magnetic scanner. The terrorists have indeed won a few battles.
It's not zero, it's actually negative. These scanners make it *easier* to bring weapons on board.
I saw a sign in the airport las weekend. "The backscatter scanner exposes you the same amount of radiation as you receive in two minutes in the airplane". Yeah but think of it this way; standing on a beach on a sunny day would you accept someone telling you that you were going to get a sun blast equal to two minutes in the sun in two seconds? Radiation doesn't always hurt bit it is always harmful to your DNA. There is a reason heath care providers put a limit on the number of X-rays you get in year.
And of course should they try to placate you with such an answer, you can respond loudly with, "So you're trying to assuage my concerns by saying this thing exposes me to SIXTY TIMES more radiation than I would normally get?"
Although I wouldn't recommend it if you have somewhere to be in any sort of hurry...
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
I have to agree with the posters above. In the 1990s, after winning the "cold war", the US was triumphant and popular. Apparently this went to the heads of the politicians. While there was brief talk about scaling back military expenditures (since they were not necessary anymore), instead the US scaled up, and started looking for places to use that military. 9/11 was a huge boon to those who wanted to go this way, and they have taken full advantage of it. The US now spends nearly as much on its military as the entire rest of the world combined. Internationally, the US behaves like a schoolyard bully - a bully utterly convinced of his own righteousness.
What I find saddest about this whole situation: most people I know in the USA don't have the faintest inkling of this. "Look at all the good we do." "The Iraqis should be thankful we got rid of Hussein for them." Etc.. It's really unbelievable.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
See , apparentely when the machine were given for approval, the dose was calculated by having the dose calculated for the whole body. As if the whole body was receiving it. So the dose density per tissue would be low. But the reality is that those scanner actually deposit most of their radiation dose not in the whole body but the skin surface. So the real dose would be 2 order of magnitude than what is touted by the machine maker , for the tissue concerned. And thus increasing the risk of cancer , specifically skin cancer, much more. I have seen estimate than about 3 to 6 person would die of skin cancer due to those detector every year. Naturally this is very small, compared to the hundred of million of passenger which probably go thru them, but it is an enormous amount compared to the number of people dying of terroristic attack today in the USA (about zero).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Why not buy a million diamond encrusted toilets next? Idiots
I used to have one, but it wasn't very comfortable.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
If TSA is worried that this is new information they need to suppress to keep it away from terrorists, that horse may have left the barn years ago.
Isn't closing the gate behind the horse what the TSA was created for?
Heh. Today's Slashdot cookie: "The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison"
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
With so many citizens on the dole do you really expect them to care?
It is happening to OTHER people. Not them. That is how they think. The government if giving them money to eat, giving them money when they don't earn any, giving them money if they don't make enough, paying for their health care, their transit passes, and their cell phones.
Do you think they don't mind giving up stuff, the trade off seems to be only inconveniencing people who are flying, you know those who have their own money. You are out of touch with how many people think now
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Because people are already concerned about the amount of exposure they are getting from one scan, let alone two.
People are concerned about anything you can convince them to be concerned about. For lawmakers, it's terrorists. For Slashdot commenters, it's trivially small amounts of radiation. For the general public, it's anything that makes a good image and story on the TV news.
Just a matter of time before theres a big announcement that the TSA is changing their uniforms from blue shirts to brown shirts....
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it... Don't remember who said it, but is it ever appropriate here....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Well, no. The false sense of security that tags along with them does, but the scanners don't directly aid you to get weapons on a plane.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Considering how much bullshit we go through, I would certainly see this as a Shovel Ready job. . . . . shoveling the shit being sold to America with our own tax paying dollars.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
Have the person turn 90 degrees in the scanner and do a second scan. The downsides are that this increases the time taken to scan, doubles the radiation dosage in the case of the X-ray type scanner, and it doesn't address the many other weaknesses of body scanning.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Metal detector: BEEP BEEP BEEP, no matter the orientation.
These things, if you do it right: *blank stare*
So yes, they do "aid" you.
The problem is items on the side of a person become invisible. Simple solution: make a person stand sideways.
Currently, an image of the front and back of a person is taken. Just add two side images, and this particular loophole is closed! Come on, TSA, was it really that difficult?
Sounds like the builder didn't set the diamonds correctly as the table of the gem should be facing out for maximum brilliance.
Time to offend someone
Maybe it's time to apply science and logic. Does it really make sense to disallow carrying on of hair gel, shaving cream, bottled water, juice, soft drinks, etc. and search American citizens with no radical islamic ties boarding domestic flights (especially juvenile and elderly citizens) and subject everyone to virtual strip searches or sexual assault, when profiling, a scientific principle, actually works? Moonbats might complain and feign offense, but really, it doesn't make sense to add hours to departure time (making flights of just happens to be a little darker than caucasians. Profiling actually works, is cheaper than spending trillions on security theater, and saves time for practically everyone. Why is it so offensive to liberal wackos? (no offense to reasonable liberals here - I'm referring to the drooling zombies who lack functioning neurons)
We really ought to implement Israeli-style security; observe behavior and actually talk to people who display suspicious behavior as they go through security, and stop the pomp and circumstance. that the woefully ineffective yet extremely expensive mess that TSA has become. Even boxcutters or pocket knives aren't much of a risk any more, because prior to 9/11 the situation was a hijacked plane would land in Cuba or another non-US-friendly destination and everything would turn out okay; vacations would just be extended a bit. Now, people fight back and subdue morons who make it through our horribly ineffective yet expensive security measures and try to start trouble.
On the rare occasions I do fly, I always bring something that can be turned into a defensive weapon (be creative; almost anything can be used as a weapon if you're of average intelligence or better and possess the slightest bit of creativity) and a towel (can be used to effectively defend against boxcutters and pocket knives), and if someone were to attempt to hijack a plane I am on, I would be one of those passengers fighting back - and I would not stop at restraining the would-be hijacker,. I would be administering pain and doing everything I can to permanently disfigure and/or maim the fucker.
But, my choice is to drive, if the drive will be less than 16 hours. Even if it's longer, I'd consider driving instead, just so I don't have to submit to the government-sponsored pornographic photo shoot and/or sexual assault.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Maybe we have different definitions for "aid". For me, for something to "aid" me it would have to facilitate something that would be harder to do if it didn't exist. These things are on par with the security present if they were absent, but they don't really make security worse than not having anything in their place.
It's a given that pretty much any proven technology or methodology able to detect dangerous substances, from metal detectors to bomb seeking dogs, would be superior.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm sure they'll be completely unable to compensate for that. For instance, I can't imagine them actually turning someone sideways for a second X-ray picture.
Well, I didn't meant to say they make it easier than nothing, but easier than metal detectors (to bring metal on board). But sure, bombs aren't necessarily metal, and weapons aren't necessarily guns (gotta think of George Carlin here, talking about bringing "really big hands" on board haha).
And I'm sure has never actually held a real gun.
Unless there's some new advance in composites it is unlikely we'd ever see a gun made without steel. They don't just need to be metal, they need to be steel. The reason is that you need a substance that is strong and reasonably rigid, but not too rigid. It has to be able to flex some under the intense pressures it faces. So advanced ceramics and the like are out. Strong than steel, but too brittle. Titanium alloys have been tried but to my knowledge they've never been usable in everything. Tarus makes a titanium barreled gun (which apparently has shitty barrel life) but the hammer, sear, and so on are all steel because titanium gets too brittle.
Maybe someday there will be a "no metal detector" gun but for now, steel is the only thing that gives both the hardness and flexibility needed for various parts.
The most frustrating and depressing part is that we're just now getting started at this Soviet-style communist repression stuff. Judging by the other countries that have endured it, we get to look forward to another 30-50 years of things getting worse until enough people get enough pissed off for the system to get un-fucked. By then "told ya so" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
I saw a sign in the airport last weekend. "The backscatter scanner exposes you the same amount of radiation as you receive in two minutes in the airplane".
I've seen those signs too. My first thought was "sure... standing INSIDE the scanner exposes you to the same amount of radiation... but what about when you're waiting in line for 20 minutes BESIDE the scanner? Plus, I can go outside and be exposed to MORE radiation than I receive in two minutes by the backscatter scanner... but it's not the same frequency of radiation, nor is it the same intensity (read: I don't mind being bombarded with radiation that will not pass through my clothing/skin, or that will pass right through without exciting my molecular structure - I just have issue with radiation that could be harmful to my DNA and cellular structure).
When operated properly, backscanner scanning should be relatively harmless -- but what's done by experts in a lab is no measure for how the thing is implemented in the real world.
...I know I'm free.*
*As long as I don't discuss anything that someone in our ever-expanding security apparatus doesn't want discussed.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
The war on terrorism has nothing to do with terrorism; the war on drugs has nothing to do with drugs. If we know, which we definitely do know, that the war on terror has nothing to do with terror, why should anybody be surprised that the body scanners are terribly ineffective for their purported use? It's highly ironic that the "war on terror" has been undertaken by the biggest terrorist state in the world, for the sole purpose of terrorizing its domestic enemy (its citizens).
This threat is easy to fix. Have the person in the scanner rotate 180 instead of simply standing still.
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I doubt they are that subtle.