LSD Can Treat Alcoholism

Go figure by Hatta · 2012-03-09 07:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yet another Schedule 1 drug with actual medical applications. Is there any part of the war on drug users that isn't based on lies?

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Re:Go figure by six025 · 2012-03-09 08:05 · Score: 5, Informative

Is there any part of the war on drug users that isn't based on lies?
No!
Re:Go figure by TheCarp · 2012-03-09 08:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

Not just lies but misinformation. I mean, LSD is often a far more exotic of a drug to the people who haven't done it than have. It isn't habbit forming. In fact, after a trip, I often said that if someone put more acid in front of me and suggested I do it again, I might punch them. At its best its long and draining, physically and emotionally. Do some people go crazy and do it every day? Sure, but they are hardly the norm.
Don't get me wrong, I saw some people have some difficult times, and see things that sounded far more amazing than anything I ever saw. And I have seen it change lives.
I had a friend who had a few very difficult experiences. He was a bit religious, and talked of seeing deamons around him and being convinced he was going to die. Took him a long time to get over that. Though, it also was the catalyst that changed his life, to become a better person, to get off the myriad of drugs he was using and get a career instead of going into his 20s as a petty crook on his way to jail.
So do I think it can cure alcoholism? No. I think its a tool that could be used to gain perspective and insight and to become invested in change. That may very well be what enables a person to change... however, I don't think its a magic switch... and it might be a difficult ride.
Actually LSD has been used in this manner, I highly recomend "LSD Psychotherapy" by Stanislav Groff. Excellent book on the subject, where clinics have been run outside the US for many years. However, its not just "LSD does the work", it is the entire therapy session surrounding it that guides it.

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Re:Go figure by cayenne8 · 2012-03-09 08:35 · Score: 5, Funny

Acid: Melts in your mind, not in your hand....

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Re:Go figure by Internetuser1248 · 2012-03-09 08:36 · Score: 5, Informative

It works with most psychedelic drugs, and there are those without the downside you mentioned. Ibogaine is the current favourite among researchers. Also flashbacks from a single treatment are rarer than most drug side effects, and less severe than many. Given that substance addiction basically results in severe illness, death, harm to others, prison and insanity, I think a small risk of a minor flashback is a pretty acceptable side effect.
Re:Go figure by Higgins_Boson · 2012-03-09 08:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

Misinformation.

The only people who had trips that bad were the ones who ABUSED it heavily, did more than they should have or just tripped in the wrong setting or had underlying psychological disorders to begin with, in which case they needed a controlled dose and not a dose from some dude off the street.

As for FDA approval.. have you EVER watched a commercial for an FDA approved drug? Nice, harmless side-effects like cancer, organ failure, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, blindness, heart failure, brain damage, impotency, birth defects, peripheral neuropathy, weight gain, weight loss, coma, death.

Yeah... you keep counting on those corrupt assholes in the FDA. I will take my chances with the shady looking guy on the corner.
Re:Go figure by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-03-09 08:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

Probably depends on what it was being tested for the treatment of.

Risk tolerance certainly drifts around as a function of time, and the FDA is no exception; but there ends up being some vaguely linear relationship between the ghastliness of the condition being approached and how much slack the assorted side effects and risks of the therapy end up being cut.

Given that alcoholism tends to have pretty dramatic long-term effects on people, many of them pretty nasty, and presently has a lousy cure rate, it might actually have a shot. It would certainly have plenty of company among the 'potentially very unpleasant drugs for definitely very dire indeed psych conditions' that are currently legal, approved, and commonly accepted for use. How much flack it would draw from the 'all you need is more willpower!' school of largely ineffective but morally satisfying therapy would be a different question... Its chances for less serious diagnoses would probably be much poorer, and (depending on what classification it hypothetically received) even off-label use might be strongly discouraged by enthusiastic DEA oversight.
Re:Go figure by JeanCroix · 2012-03-09 08:46 · Score: 4, Funny

Ibogaine? I hear that Santorum is heavy into the Ibogaine... (/HST)
Re:Go figure by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2012-03-09 08:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

That's ridiculous. I've known a lot of people who have done acid. A lot of people who've done lots of acid. I've been to acid parties. I've hosted acid parties. All of this is to say, I've got some experience with it. And I've never had a flashback. I've asked many former users, directly, "have you ever had a flashback?" Not a single person has ever said "yes" or even "maybe".
Don't get me wrong, it's got some (semi?) permanent effects--primarily, you will never forget the first time you really trip. I've also noticed that decisions made while tripping seem to "stick" more. At least for me. In my early 20s, I told myself a hundred times that I need to slow down, but somehow when it came time to party I was always up for it. Then, once, I came to the same conclusion while tripping. After that, the temptation to party when I shouldn't was greatly decreased. I can't really explain it, it was just easy to just have a couple beers and go to bed at 2:00 AM instead of getting hammered and staying up until dawn. I didn't even really feel like I was missing out like I did before. It helped me get over an ex-girlfriend that I was being a dramatic teenager about. One night--bam--"hey, she doesn't like you, deal with it, there's plenty of girls out there" and I woke up the next day and it was like I'd been single for a year. It also showed me that there's definite limits to how fucked up I enjoy being.
There was also other stuff. I'd get a phrase stuck in my head while tripping, and then find myself overusing it for weeks after. Cigarettes had that "acid" feel for a couple days (smokers who have tripped will know what I mean), and weed would make me feel like I was tripping, sometimes a week or more later although that could have been my imagination. I think it permanently gave me a better sense of perspective and empathy, and it gave me the "feel" for looking at a problem from a different angle. The "feel" thing is hard to explain too--it's like how when you're learning to water-ski, when you start out, you don't know how things are supposed to feel in order to stay up. Once you've done it though, you know what you're aiming for. Any potential negative effects aside (I really can't say I have any, but then again how would I know?), it's absolutely had a net positive effect on my life.
But one thing I've definitely never experienced or heard of anyone experiencing, is a flashback. Ask anyone--the most frequent response you'll get is, "Damn, I wish."

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Re:Go figure by Hatta · 2012-03-09 08:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

LSD "flashbacks" are nothing but vivid memories. Have you ever smelled a smell or heard a tune that transported you back to another place and time? If so, then you've had a flashback. These are not medical events, and I speak from experience.
The safety of LSD is far better established than many FDA approved drugs. They've studied it so much looking for negative effects that we know all of them by now. It's non-addictive and non-toxic. It doesn't increase the risk of schizophrenia. I don't think there's any question that it's safer than, e.g., Adderall.

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Re:Go figure by ColdWetDog · 2012-03-09 09:13 · Score: 4, Funny

As for FDA approval.. have you EVER watched a commercial for an FDA approved drug? Nice, harmless side-effects like cancer, organ failure, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, blindness, heart failure, brain damage, impotency, birth defects, peripheral neuropathy, weight gain, weight loss, coma, death.

Come on, that's a small price to pay for an erection. Put some perspective in your life!

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Re:Go figure by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2012-03-09 09:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Heh. Try holding a few hits of acid in your hand for an hour or two sometime.

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Re:Go figure by jamstar7 · 2012-03-09 09:15 · Score: 4, Funny

Dude, I'm still waiting for those flashbacks they promised me in the 60's.

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Re:Go figure by Gription · 2012-03-09 09:37 · Score: 3, Informative

The only reason that the FDA wouldn't approve LSD as a drug is it isn't patentable and the FDA doesn't do ANYTHING unless it benefits a major pharmaceutical company.
Re:Go figure by sootman · 2012-03-09 10:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

During this time, [Steve] Jobs experimented with psychedelics, calling his LSD experiences "one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

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Re:Go figure by Deathmoo · 2012-03-09 10:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

The war on drugs IS based on lies. Learning is good. Evidence points overwhelmingly to the war on drugs being far more harmful than the drugs it is trying to stamp out. Including LSD. I've known many people to try many different drugs, and LSD is not one that they've had problems with. Not all drugs are evil.
Re:Go figure by HairyNevus · 2012-03-09 10:42 · Score: 3, Informative

Well, I think it's abut time an Erowid link appeared: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_faq.shtml#flashbacks. Anything you want to know about drugs on the Internet, and Erowid.org is your best bet.

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Re:Go figure by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2012-03-09 11:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

Different trips. My first one, I didn't recognize the visuals at the time and I smoked a bunch of weed that day with friends so I thought it wasn't even real acid--didn't know what it felt like. My second trip, I took a lot, and saw overlapping patterns of giant eyeballs on the walls, but I knew it was just hallucinations. I've never even come close to losing touch with reality, I can't imagine how much it would take to be unable to tell when something impossible happening (like foot-wide eyeballs opening and closing in diagonal rows on the walls) isn't real. Oh, it looks real, but you can say to yourself, "this isn't possible, so it's not real". The real trick is when something that would normally be crazy happens, like a car accident happening outside your house. It takes hard thought to be able to figure out if that's real or fake, and it ain't always real--a closed door can sound like a car crash, and then you look at the car and it's got a dent, but you hallucinate the dent is the whole front of the car, and then you run outside shouting, "oh my god is everyone okay?!" and then the people react to you shouting and then it looks like a crisis situation which just reinforces that an accident happened even though it didn't and now a couple people who just got out of the car have some guy running at them shouting half-coherent questions and--well, you can probably see how stuff can get out of hand. You have to have the presence of mind to think through all that stuff while you're more fucked up than you've ever been in your entire life.
The insights only came when I actually sat down and introspected while tripping--most of the time, I just used it as a party drug. That said, I don't think there's a significant difference between your 2nd and 40th trip. As another poster mentioned, there's a near 100% tolerance from one day to the next, but if you wait a couple weeks it goes away completely. Your first is different because a lot of people, their first time, don't even recognize that they're being affected until they're already on the way down. Strong visuals only happen when you're tripping hard, and the basic visuals (tracers, subtle movements in patterns, etc.) are easy to overlook because the mind-fuck is much stronger than the hallucinations at low-medium doses. You're more worried about the meaning of time and whether drinking orange juice is going to make you permanently insane than whether a leaf on the wallpaper might have moved a little.
I'm a nervous, introspective, pessimistic person, so tripping was always an ordeal for me. But, I'm also a pretty strong personality, so when I felt stuff slipping away I held on harder. Some people trip and fall over that edge, and act like someone in a fugue state, where there's no self-control, and that's the "bad trip" stuff you hear about--I bet a couple of times I had as much internal turmoil as some of those people who ran down the street naked, but I just sat in the corner blowing my cheeks out and scrubbing my hand through my hair every 2 minutes for 16 hours. Not that I'm particularly special or anything, I just never took enough to throw me over that edge, but I definitely got close a few times. I think a fair portion of the people who have the freakouts are looking for an excuse to act crazy, and LSD is one hell of an excuse. And then once you start acting weird, it's easier to keep acting weird and blame it on a bad trip than it is to just pull things together and go "woah, sorry dudes, I was freaking out, I'm good now." But, you've got the mind-fuck going on, so it's hard to rationally say, "oh man I'm taking this too far, it's time to own up to it."
But anyway, no single trip was a massive life-altering experience like I've heard of other people having. It just helped me look at stuff from a different angle, be more objective, and for some reason I can't explain, coming to the exact same conclusion while on acid had a much stronger effect than it would otherwise, but I always felt like the same person the next day and nobody ever sai

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Makes sense by GameboyRMH · 2012-03-09 07:52 · Score: 5, Funny

They'll stop the first time they see their booze bottles as screaming fanged monsters.

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Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 08:03 · Score: 5, Informative

It's funny, but this was actually the original intent of the original 1950s studies. However, the study participants often enjoyed the LSD experience and were able to talk coherently and honestly with researchers about why they drank and why they wanted to stop. The sessions evolved into a kind of guided meditation, and eventually showed a success rate of about 45-50%. Compare this to the second most effective treatment for alcoholism - AA - which boasts a success rate of 10-12%.
Hallucinogens can be powerful tools, and I'm glad we're starting to explore them more thoroughly.
Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 08:13 · Score: 3, Funny

Naltrexone + drinking is even more effective.
Re:Makes sense by cjb658 · 2012-03-09 08:17 · Score: 5, Funny

My name is Bob and I'm an LSD addict - formerly an alcoholic.
Re:Makes sense by marnues · 2012-03-09 10:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

I left AA after my court-appointed time ended, but I have to say that AA has many good elements. I found a group that really focused on living life rather than fearing alcohol, loving Jesus, or comparing drunk stories. Unfortunately, AA was developed at a point when Christianity and it's moral teachings were a fact of life in America, so too much nonsense is infused and no one is prepared to make the necessary modifications.
Re:Makes sense by blind+biker · 2012-03-09 16:41 · Score: 3, Informative

You cannot be an LSD addict - LSD is not addictive.
Here, educate thy ignorant sefl.

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Other results not mentioned by Nidi62 · 2012-03-09 07:54 · Score: 5, Funny

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly and 39% increase in the belief that they were covered in spiders over that of the placebo group.

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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil

This reminds me of a nursery rhyme by Art3x · 2012-03-09 07:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

"I know an old lady who swallowed a fly . . . "

Placebo? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 07:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

Placebo? Really? What possible placebo can you give somebody that they won't figure out it wasn't LSD?

Re:Placebo? by medv4380 · 2012-03-09 08:20 · Score: 3, Funny

Toad Sweat

In other news by SJHillman · 2012-03-09 07:57 · Score: 4, Funny

In other news, cocaine addiction has been shown to lower marijuana abuse.

Re:In other news by Reverand+Dave · 2012-03-09 10:05 · Score: 4, Funny

Breaking news: Vagina can cure a WoW addiction as well.

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Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 08:03 · Score: 3, Informative

LSD can cause a permanent splitting of the psychosis and the end result can be schizophrenia.

Is that a fact anywhere but your ass?

Re:Old News by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 08:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yes, all those hordes of LSD addicted people are just another problem. Oh wait....

I used to take acid all the time by Nyder · 2012-03-09 08:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

Man, those were the good old days, when acid was plentiful (the 80's). I really miss taking acid. They said I'd get flashbacks when I got older, which I am still waiting for. I mean, free acid trips? I'm down. Except they aren't happening.

I want some mother loving acid, LSD, shit, i'll even eat the brown acid from woodstock. Prefer liquid, but I'll take blotter, 4 way, gels, whatever you got.

Tune in, Turn on, Drop out.

One of my best trips was when I took some liquid acid, 2 drops, and 20 mins later, i'm watching these crab aliens rip up my ceiling, while blood was dripping down the wall. Not only was I not scared, I was loving it. I don't lose reality on acid, and this was by far the best show ever. I kept thinking my roommate wanted to sleep with (like I really want to have sex on acid, not!), she thought I was the devil, and we were really fucked up.

I would love to take acid again, but I have no idea where to get it. Guess I can go find some hippies somewhere...

While acid isn't for everyone, 'cause some of you are crazy upstairs, most everyone should take it. It opens your mind to other ways of thinking, and honestly, most the world needs to open their minds and wake the fuck up.

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Be seeing you...

Re:I used to take acid all the time by Forty+Two+Tenfold · 2012-03-09 08:13 · Score: 4, Informative

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."

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Re:I used to take acid all the time by BeaverCleaver · 2012-03-09 11:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

I assume you're trolling here, but I'l bite. Do you write poems and make breakthroughs in your recreation time? You've never done anything just for the pleasure of it? Watched a cheesy movie? Kicked a ball around with some friends? Gone for a walk?
Your comment makes me want to try acid. No, I do not expect that I will cure cancer after trying it. But it will be a new experience, like reading a book, or visiting a new town. Maybe I'll learn something, maybe I won't, but at least I won't be on some puritan soapbox criticising adults who are curious about their world and want to learn through new experiences.

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sustainable living

meh by forgottenusername · 2012-03-09 08:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

A strong dose of LSD removes any underpinnings with reality. There's no way to prepare for it. For some people it's a good, useful thing which helps them gain a different perspective and form new thought patterns or approach problems in a different way. For others its a hellish experience that causes permanent damage to their psyche. Psychoactive drugs can trigger latent personality disorders. I know this from personal experience.

Think of LSD as a focuser; if you're prone to anxiety, you're likely to have an extremely hard time, especially if you're in an sterile lab environment (your ambient environment makes a huge difference to your experience, along with the people you are around).

Anyhow, I have a hard time trusting that study for much. I can see psychoactive drugs having lots of benefits, but a lot of risks too. It's hard to picture someone suffering from alcoholism (which encourages denialism, depression etc) really getting much positive benefit.

Re:meh by brainzach · 2012-03-09 08:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why would they have to do the experiment in a sterile lab environment?
You can minimize the chances of a bad trip by conducting the test in a more comfortable environment and have a counselor guide the patient through the experience. It will probably be much more positive and effective treatment than giving a guy a lot of acid and locking him in the room for 12 hours.

How is this news? by dmt0 · 2012-03-09 08:08 · Score: 5, Informative

Some studies in the 1950s that used LSD to treat alcoholism professed a 50% success rate,[29] five times higher than estimates near 10% for Alcoholics Anonymous.[30] A 1998 review was inconclusive.[31]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Alcoholism

This has been known since the 1960's by stox · 2012-03-09 08:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sadly, further research was abandoned due to the difficulties of getting permission from the government.

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"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "

I could not agree more by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 08:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

Posting as AC because I don't have an account. I took LSD this very last Saturday, and I can honestly say that having looked at myself and alcohol and what I realize it's been doing to me, I haven't touched it since or had a single craving. I mean, I'm not an alcoholic, I just drink a 6-pack of tall boys every night for a year, right? It was like turning a switch on and off. I dunno, I'm a reasonably happy person, so I think that it's easier for me to say all of this. "Treatment" for addiction (ANY addiction - even sugar) very rarely focuses on the actual underlying cause of the addiction. Yes, some people just like to party. But LSD has a way of making you look inward at yourself....

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ. by ArsenneLupin · 2012-03-09 08:15 · Score: 3, Funny

Long time alcoholics tend to suffer from a duality within the mind, the one who wants to stay sober, and the other that wants to drink.

That's what shandy is for...

Re:placebo for LSD? by jellomizer · 2012-03-09 08:23 · Score: 4, Funny

You don't tell the control group that they are taking LSD.

Placebo side effects: dry mouth, and feels a little bit hyper.
The Other drug side effects: a talking dragon asking you live by the sea.

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Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees... by teasea · 2012-03-09 08:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

Trust me...then alcoholism is going to be the least of your problems.

You have knowledge that taking 250 mgs of LSD will so devastate the average person's life that alcoholism will be a comparatively insubstantial problem?

Go on...I'm fascinated.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees... by Vintermann · 2012-03-09 08:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Oh come on, regular expressions aren't like LSD. You don't get long term damage from an LSD experience.

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Ibogaine. by Xoltri · 2012-03-09 09:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

I watched a really interesting show called Drugs Inc. The talked about one psychadelic drug called Ibogaine that can be used to cure opiate addiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Treatment_for_opioid_addiction

The show is worth watching for sure.

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-Xoltri

Re:placebo for LSD? by TheGratefulNet · 2012-03-09 09:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

religion and drugs have a huge amount in common.

they both serve to play with the mind and present alternate realities, then invite the 'participant' to join them in their delusion.

I've had friends explain their trips to me and how it opened their minds. same kinds of words that very religious people also use.

are we wearing tinted glasses when we view the world? does religion allow us to take off the glasses and see reality or does it give us the glasses in the first place? are drugs the removal of glasses or the use of glasses?

if you think you know, then you've got it wrong.

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Psychadelics need to be studied, and used properly by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-09 10:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

Damn, I wish.

I did lots of acid in my twenties.. For example, LSD has 100% tolerance increase, but it only lasts for a few days, if that. For example, in those days I had lots of it around.. and it was quality. trip on 1 hit on day 1. On day 2 it takes 2 for the same level of trip. (everyone knows every trip is different, but the same perceived strength). 3rd day it took 4, then 8, etc...I routinely went to 8, 16, as high as 32 more than once and I never have had a flashback. I have had similar feelings here and there when exposed to marijuana, but never what could be called a "flashback" as I've heard them described. And it already has a built-in prevention for long-term abuse, as if that is even a real possibility to begin with..

These days I wouldnt trip, just because it such an intense experience and requires such a commitment of time and emotion that I am just not willing to go there.. As far as the benefits of LSD, I would put it this way.. "it forces introspection.". Whatever is bugging you, small concerns needling you, particularly issues if self-consciousness, are brought out and you have no choice but to face them. You can't hide from yourself.. I think in this way it makes sense that it could treat alcoholism.. as could any number of psychadelics..

I truly believe that psychadelics should be something that is embraced by a society and its culture. There should be people experimenting, documenting, and prescribing them. Bad trips are REALLY REALLY bad, but in the proper setting, completely manageable.. just remind yourself that the trip is temporary, and talk them down.. if there were people around who acted as the equivalent of shamen, we could take all of these psychadelic substances and properly utilize them. Aren't we mature enough yet as a civilization that we can quit pretending like psychadelic substances are so dangerous that just possession of them can be punishable by decades in a penitentiary?!

It's fscking ridiculous.. we cant even legalize marijuana, but sell cigarettes and alcohol on every corner. I suspect that many would agree with me, but until we can get out and vote and put people with similar rational and open minds in our government nothing will change.

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