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Domestic Drilling Doesn't Decrease Gasoline Prices
eldavojohn writes "As the political rhetoric heats up, there's something puzzling about drilling inside the United States. Essentially, it doesn't reduce what we pay at the pump. From the article, 'A statistical analysis of 36 years of monthly, inflation-adjusted gasoline prices and U.S. domestic oil production by The Associated Press shows no statistical correlation between how much oil comes out of U.S. wells and the price at the pump.' If the promises that politicians made when they opened U.S. drilling were true, then we should be paying about $2 a gallon now. Instead it's $4 a gallon. Minnesota Public Radio pulls some choice quotes from both parties and wonders why this decades-old empirical observation goes seemingly completely unnoticed."
Minnesota Public Radio pulls some choice quotes ...
Submitter here, my mistake on that above source. When I read this in my news feed yesterday, I didn't see the AP markings all around this story. All of it appears to be completely and solely Associated Press sourced. I apologize if that confused anyone.
Noticed that when I was looking to see if anyone had come up with a sufficient rebuttal to this empirical link but aside from a few insane pundits, I didn't find much. The remaining arguments for "drill here, drill now" probably rests on "job creation" (waiting on that fact check) and, according to Thomas McClanahan from the Kansas City Star, it "means fewer dollars going to nasty, unstable regimes and more revenue for the Treasury, especially if the drilling is on public lands." He might be right about lowering the trade deficit but I think there are other things we could stop doing to prevent unstable regimes.
My work here is dung.
Speculation. That's what it boils down to, folks. If you really want to see $2.00 gas prices again, outlaw speculation and it will happen overnight. It is absolutely mind-boggling that this practice is allowed with no checks or balances to keep it from driving our gas prices sky high. People will bring up anything else, like gas taxes or domestic drilling, just to draw attention from the real problem. It's almost like no one on either side wants to have that conversation, though.
Personally, I would have thought this was obvious. Any additional oil generated by the U.S. is pretty much a rounding error compared to the major producers, with international markets, American oil well are going to want to earn just as much as international sellers, if they had to choose between selling for less domestically or getting more on the international market they're going to go for more. They're essentially required to do so by their shareholders. In the absence of an amazing discovery of vast reserves of cheap, easy to extract, untapped oil reserves, the only way to actually get lower prices would require price controls and subsidies to force the price of gas lower and, frankly, I think that would be much worse than high gas prices.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
This is the problem when journalists with political agendas pretend to be statisticians. Oil is sold on a global market and goes to many different uses. You cannot look at one part of the supply and say "well, increasing this particular part of the supply didn't affect prices in this other particular market." There are too many other factors to consider: How much oil did other countries use? How much oil was diverted to purposes other than producing gasoline, such as plastics or heating oil? What happened to production in other areas? NONE of this is accounted for in this silly "analysis." Most telling? The analysis excluded the oil shocks of the early 1970's. Why? That was the clearest time that domestic gas prices (and supply) are driven largely by the global oil market. Yet, this analysis is being put into papers all across the US. For what purpose? Could it be to deflect criticism from the Presidents' drilling policies? When an analysis concludes "therefore, the basic laws of economics don't apply," then just like one that says "therefore, the law of gravity doesn't apply," our first instinct should be to question the analysis, not the basic laws.
That wasn't hypothesis, according to TFS. The hypothesis was that drilling more oil in the U.S. would cause gas prices to decrease. In other words, the amount of drilling in the U.S. would be one factor of many, not the sole factor, for determining gas prices. The analysis showed no correlation between drilling in the U.S. and gas prices, so the researchers were not able to find evidence to support the hypothesis.
I see a similar mistake when people try to "disprove" global warming by showing that climate changes naturally. Just because climate changes naturally does not mean that increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere artificially cannot also change climate. Natural factors (such as solar output or the orbit of the Earth) are some factors, and human-casued factors (such as more aerosols or carbon dioxide in the atmopshere) are others. Of course, there is no one factor that determines gas prices or climate.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
you now have glowing articles in the state-controlled Associated Press shilling for the administration
Really? Did you catch this part of the article:
Politicians - especially those in the party that's not occupying the White House - have long harped on high gas prices when expedient. Then-Sen. Barack Obama said in 2008, when he was running for president, that "here in Ohio, you're paying nearly $3.70 a gallon for gas, 2-1/2 times what it cost when George Bush took office."
But Obama, who has seen gas prices go up 73 percent since he took office, was singing a different tune last week in his weekly radio address: "The truth is: The price of gas depends on a lot of factors that are often beyond our control. Unrest in the Middle East can tighten global oil supply. Growing nations like China or India adding cars to the road increases demand. But one thing we should control is fraud and manipulation that can cause prices to spike even further."
Sort of makes him sound like a two-faced idiot to me. On the campaign trail he promised to fix all this and now he's in the same spot as Bush with the same damned effect on gas prices!
And the idiocy of calling the AP "state owned" is really funny considering you just said they ripped on Bush and Cheney about a conspiracy. Hello! For 8 years, Bush and Cheney were president and vice president. If the AP was state owned and if they ruled for 8 years, why didn't they just dissolve it after publishing all those "conspiracy theories" you stated? The AP is a Not-for-profit cooperative that has been around since May of 1846 -- 15 years before the start of the American Civil War!
My work here is dung.
Ok, now implement this in China. If you do it in the US alone it will have exactly zero effect.
Frankly, the link between oil prices and speculation is another thing that should be fact checked. Unless I'm missing something the only thing that adds significantly to the price of oil (aside from US sales and oil taxes, things that matter more than a few cents, however rich you think ExxonMobil is, their cut out of your $4 is 2-3 cents) is the money taxed out of it by the insanity that is the saudi government. And even that amount is dropping rapidly according to theoildrum.com.
So pretty much the only action that would have any chance of dropping oil prices more than $0.10 or so would be to invade a few countries in the middle east. And China wouldn't let the US do that. Do you really think that the massive inefficienciency that these regulations would impose would be less than the 2-3% that speculation + refining + transport + ... is today ?
Do not take this that I support speculation as an activity in itself. It's morally reprehensible when you think about the fact that a lot people need oil to avoid freezing to death. Then again, given that, speculation is not nearly as reprehensible as driving a Ferrari, or driving where you could walk or bike.
Drilling domestically might not lower the price of gasoline, but perhaps it creates a buffer in case worldwide oil flows are disrupted. That is, if all oil is imported and there is a boycott against the U. S., we are back to 1973, waiting in gas lines. If a local industry had to begin from scratch, prices would presumably be high for quite a while.
You're right but I would like to point out two things. One is that you seemingly forgot to mention the Strategic Petroleum Reserves that were created after that boycott. Despite what pure capitalists say about its influence on the market, this reserve still exists and has come in handy for taking "loans" out of during catastrophes. This would help us transition from foreign dependence to massive drilling at home.
... they have crazy revenues.
The other thing is that we actually do a lot of our own oil refining (especially in Texas). So, it's not like we're missing that huge part of the infrastructure, we import the crude and refine it on our soil. So really what we're missing is just the crude pipeline. The "local industry" you speak of is actually mostly already here to support us, all that's missing is the source and transportation of the crude (since it would probably flip from cargo ships to trucks initially?). What it comes down to is how long would it take a company to drill and lay pipeline? Probably not very long
My work here is dung.
Why on earth would oil companies sell gasoline here for $2.50 a gallon when they can sell it in France for $10 a gallon? Gas prices are higher because we're selling gasoline overseas. Welcome to the global economy.
There's at least one domestic downside to America's growing role as a fuel exporter. Experts say the trend helps explain why U.S. motorists are paying more for gasoline. The more fuel that's sent overseas, the less of a supply cushion there is at home.
I still remember crowds of complete fucking idiots chanting, "Drill, baby, drill!!" Pathetic.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Oh come on. Are you telling me that nothing else significant happened in the last half of 2008 that might have affected the supply and/or demand for oil?
Yes, supply and demand is important, but you may remember that a few other things happened in late 2008? Things that might have had a little more impact on the supply and demand balance than the piddling amount of oil that offshore drilling might produce.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Speculation of this kind has a long history. G K Chesterton, nearly a hundred years ago, referring in passing to the scandal of the time, wheat futures buyers who were not millers or grocers trying to buy up the entire wheat crop in order to raise prices to whatever they thought would not actually collapse civilisation while making them rich. Currently, I believe, over 70% of oil production is accounted for by hedge fund futures. It is a classical cornering of the market - but it could only be addressed by sending gunboats to banana republics like the Bahamas, the Channel Islands, the State of Delaware and the City of London.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Is nothing to do with the price of oil per barrel essentially.
I will give you an example from up here in Canada where I live, specifically Victoria BC. The price here varies between roughly $1.12/litre and $1.39/litre (i.e. $4.24 to $5.26 US dollars. The exchange rate is $1 Cdn = $0.9997 US so no effective difference at the moment). The price per litre varies on a daily basis, with no real apparent pattern.
Now, our gas comes from Alberta as oil, is shipped to the US to be converted into gas, then gets shipped back north to BC (why we don't make it ourselves is beyond me).
The price goes up based on anything remotely bad in the news apparently. Revolution in Libya, price goes up. Bad weather, price goes up. Election coming, price goes up. Long weekend coming, price goes up. It drops periodically when things are normal. I have only seen it go over $1.39/litre once or twice and then only for a few hours. When it goes up at one station, it follows at the rest, same thing when it drops.
It seems to me that this price war has nothing to do with the price of oil internationally. I haven't noticed a pattern for the most part.
However, one change that does happen is if the price of a barrel jumps dramatically up, the price of gas jumps immediately - no matter that the gas we bought actually cost less. However, if the price per barrel drops dramatically, the price at the pump drops slowly if at all.
Its nothing more than an industry colluding to ensure they get the highest prices possible, combined with a government that is not interested in regulating it at all because they collect massive taxes on the sale of fuel.
So it doesn't surprise me that drilling in the US doesn't affect price at the pump - because the industry that sets the prices has zero interest in lowering the price of gas, they are milking it for all they think they can get away with, and with zero repercussions. Our NA society is built on burning fossil fuels, and nothing is going to change that any time soon.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Here's the REAL question that rarely gets asked: why should fuel prices be lower? Fuel prices in other countries are much higher than in the US (with some exceptions in the Middle East where the fuel is subsidized to extraordinary degrees), mainly due to taxes. The taxes are there to limit consumption, while bringing in tax revenue to fund other services.
Is there a good reason why fuel prices should be low at all? We know there are costs associated with high use that aren't baked into the price of petrol. Arguably, we've never paid the true price for the fuel we use.
I understand that high fuel prices disproportionately affect the poor; rich people have more than enough money to pay for petrol. But that indicates other things wrong with the infrastructure of cities and how people move around.
Virtually no matter how you look at it, prices for petrol should be higher. On the extreme capitalist side, they should be higher because the product is in demand, the supply is dwindling and public opinion is getting harder to buy (oil spills, climate change). On the more socialist side, prices should be higher through taxes, to move money into providing better infrastructure for all drivers, encouraging better city layouts, and funding already badly strapped local governments. 'Because I hate paying more for something that used to be cheap' isn't really a reason.
There are a myriad of excellent reasons to drill for oil locally which have nothing to do with gas prices.
* Ethically Sourced is better
Why should we be giving ANY money to cultures that treat women (or other groups based on sexuality or gender) unequally?
That money is far better off going to either the U.S. or Canada.
* Environmentally friendly
It may seem counter-intuitive that more local drilling is better for the environment, but the simple fact is that we cannot trust other cultures to care as ugh about the environment around drilling as we can. Drilling or pipelines here can be monitored more closely and we can do more to clean up problems when they occur. There are hosts of environmental issues with wells around the world but you'll never know about them because they are swept under the run by tightly controlled government press.
There is also a very logical component to the issue though. The longer you have to ship something, the more likely there will be accidents. Currently we have a vast quantity of oil coming in by ships, and one of which can and do leak. Moving to more local production means eliminating the shipping of a lot of oil from large distances across the ocean.
* Local Jobs
Producing oil locally means more local jobs, end of story. It takes people to build out wells/pipelines, and people to maintain them. Even if the number of jobs once built is not very high, it is non-zero and it requires skilled labor.
That's a few, there are more (such as strategic or price leveling reasons). The fact is we have the oil and gas we need, we should start making use of it ASAP until alternative energy industries can come up to speed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You've hit the nail on the head (so to speak) with respect to vertical monopolies. While there isn't a giant Standard Oil anymore, the fact that the oil companies control the entire lifecycle (in one way or another) from crude to finished product at the pump shows that we can have the weird market fluctuations you described. (Going quickly up, but taking its sweet time to go down in price.) The fact that gasoline isn't something that has very elastic demand because of the way it is used in every aspect of our economy lends us to the conclusion that vertical monopolies can leverage their monopoly status to keep prices artificially high in the face of real change in the marketplace.
It is funny that our refining capacity never meets the aggregate amount of oil we are pulling out of the ground. (It's more profitable to close the refineries rather than let price go down.)
We've seen the oil companies push prices up to a point, hear the outcry, then lower prices back down slowly so the average person with a busy life doesn't notice that gasoline spiked at $4/gallon up from $2.50. But they never seem to get back to $2.50... the price just stays up where it was, slightly below the heartburn level that caused the reduction in the first place. :)
When you have an item that most people depend upon (and businesses too), you can play fast and loose with the market and not fear losing customers. (I wish the electric car would put a damper on this practice, but I'm not holding my breath.)
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Who cares if it's a global commodity, the politicians said that home drilling would reduce the price of oil.
It doesn't.
Story: End Of.
We KNOW they were lying, we KNEW at the time they were.
But still it was demanded to be passed because it would reduce prices and help the poor out.
Now that it has been shown to be a load of bollocks, why will you now excuse them for lying about it?
Do you consider gold fungible?
Silver?
If so, your argument makes both of them non-fungible; which happens to be one of the silliest statements I've seen in a while.
Not all gold is placer nuggets and flakes- you have to refine a lot of it. Silver, you have to process it to get to it.
Gold is often extracted...
Silver is extracted and while it occurs in metal form has to typically be refined out of other things
It's a raw good. Raw goods are less fungible than the refined, but they're still fungible.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Lest you forget, when Bush left office, the price of a gallon of gas was less than $2
Lest you forget, when Bush left office, the global economy, lead by the U.S., was heading toward a bottomeless crash of unknown proportions and everybody slowed their purchase of oil products significantly. That is why a gallon of gas was in the $2 range when Obama came in. I don't know how we can expect healthy economic growth *and* low energy prices, nomatter what the source of the energy, at the same time. Simple economics would seem inform us that we can't have both.