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With Cinavia DRM, Is Blu-ray On a Path To Self-Destruction?
suraj.sun tips an article at AnandTech about a Blu-ray DRM scheme called Cinavia. The author makes the case that software like Cinavia is hastening the death of a Blu-ray industry already struggling to compete with online media streaming. Quoting:
"In our opinion, it is the studios and the Blu-ray system manufacturers who have had the say in deciding upon the suitability of a particular DRM scheme. Consumers have had to put up with whatever has been thrust upon them. The rise in popularity of streaming services (such as Netflix and Vudu) which provide instant gratification should make the Blu-ray industry realize its follies. The only reason that streaming services haven't completely phased out Blu-rays is the fact that a majority of the consumers don't have a fast and reliable Internet connection. Once such connections become ubiquitous, most of the titles owned by consumers would probably end up being stored in the cloud. ... The addition of new licensing requirements such as Cinavia are preventing the natural downward price progression of Blu-ray related technology. Instead of spending time, money and effort on new DRM measures that get circumvented within a few days of release, the industry would do well to lower the launch price of Blu-rays. There is really no justification for the current media pricing."
I didn't know conglomerates were charities? Why would they lower their prices, unless forced to?
The only reason that streaming services haven't completely phased out Blu-rays is the fact that a majority of the consumers don't have a fast and reliable Internet connection.
Also the fact that Netflix and Vudu is only available in the USA. The rest of the world still rely on physical media.
We are the people our parents warned us about.
They're the one pushing this audio watermark in their movies. Piracy has nothing to do with it, they want to license this crap to others and get a Sony tax on every audio track and device that supports this offensive DRM (playback will stop if the source is from an unregistered device, so forget legal rips).
That's a big leap. Countries with high populations densities, such as those in Europe and the Far East, will have a much easier/cheaper time of building out the infrastructure for reliable high-speed internet to a vast majority of their population. Here in the US, however, it's a lot more expensive. Simply hand-waving the "once such connections become ubiquitous" ignores the cost of installing that infrastructure, and the time required to extend it to enough households.
Besides, a 1080p movie is going to suck a lot of bandwidth, and I'm guessing most people won't want to pay for a connection fast enough when they can save a few bucks with a slower connection. Not to mention the whole throttling/bandwidth cap issue.
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You pick a movie on netflix, 5 seconds later your watching it. You download a pirated movie, open it and 2 seconds later your watching it. You put a blu ray in, you wait a minute for it to pass the security check, get notified you need to download a firmware update for your blu ray player, get that done, be forced to watch the fbi notice, non skippable studio notices, skip past the previews, get to the overly animated menu and have to wait 20 seconds before it get to the play / select chapters buttons.
I have always wondered how much money the studios have spent (wasted) on copy protection and huge legal teams over the years. Just lower the prices, when people walk by the 5$ dvd bin at walmart, they stop and grab a few. Bring down prices across the board and sales will go up. Also, start making better movies people want to watch more than 1 time.
Our house is rural, we can only get verizon 3G internet, with 5GB per month, we cant do any streaming. No cable, no dsl. We still need netflix (by mail) or download movies someplace else and being them home.
Redbox has shown people are more than willing to pay for physical movies,well, upto 1$ or a bit more for blu rays.
All the video stores - I mean all but three in a city of 1.1M, none within many miles of my house - have closed. And I don't get streaming, in every sense of the word "get".
In Canada, at least, Netflix recently reduced it's bandwidth again, down below 1Mbps - sub DVD, much less Blu-Ray. Why bother having HDTV if you use it?
I've become a steady browser at the library, where they have more DVD titles than any video store - but for anything popular, put the disc on a hold and wait 3 months, and all Blu-Rays (about 5% of the collection) are out all the time. And, no, I'm not paying $29.99 for "Contagion" to watch it once, possibly twice ten years later.
The rental people had about the right number - $5 for an evening for something quite popular, a little less for the older ones. And there are few movies I'll watch twice, very, very few more than twice, so $10 as a purchase price is already high for most discs. For me.
So I do seem to be trapped in some kind of market failure here, where I've got the money, want the product, and the one market mechanism for meeting product with customer at an agreeable price has just collapsed, beaten out by "good enough"....and if 1Mbps is "good enough" (is it really that people are too damn lazy to go to the mall to browse instead of clicking from the sofa??), then maybe BR is doomed because nobody appreciates resolution. And not having freezes and artifacts and glitches.
Posting anonymously for obvious reasons.
I have a rather vast collection of DVD's. Several hundred, in fact. I don't actually watch a lot of films, but I do enjoy owning the ones I like.
When Blu-ray first came along, or rather when I first got a Blu-ray player (A PS3 I managed to grab on the cheap, back when they were still £350+), I started the transition to Blu-ray. If I bought a new film, I'd buy the Blu-ray version instead of the DVD. If I wanted to watch an old film, I'd see if I could find it on blu-ray before raiding my collection.
Then the irregularities hit - obviously being a collector, I'd want to get the "best" version of the films in question. Yet for the longest time, you could get a "vanilla" DVD, a "Special" DVD (which often came with a second disk full of "Features" and maybe some art cards) or THE blu-ray. Which came with only some, or none, of the special features. And it was still £5 more than the special DVD.
I stopped buying either. I found that I could just as easily spend £10 a month on a newsgroup subscription and download whatever film I wanted in whatever quality I wanted, whenever I wanted. Why rebuy my whole collection when I can just watch what I want, when I want? If I wanted the extras, I could have them as well - at no extra cost. What's more, I could play them wherever I wanted, including streaming them to various other non-bluray capable devices. Much how people preferred MP3's simply because anything could play them, I now prefer downloaded copies for the same reason. I'm sorry that "crooks" are getting my money instead of the people who made the films, but it all just got too much. I will switch to a streaming service as soon as one offers a decent catalogue of films without charging stupid amounts. I refuse to "rent" films for anything more than £1 a pop - particularly as brand new DVDs can be had for less than £5 and most streams are NOT actually HD quality (they're often about as good as DVD quality, maybe a bit better - certainly no 1080p). The content is the killer though - why does Netflix US have 10x the content than Netflix UK does? Oh yeah, because the Movie companies are plainly greedy. They want licensing rights done on a per-country basis so they can squeeze as much out of everyone. Well fuck you, how about you let anyone access all your content for a set price and let competition do the work.
Netflix BDs by mail? That's still using the same BD DRM. Netflix and Hulu video on demand? Those are available only where you can get cable TV. If your home isn't served by a cable TV provider, and the DSLAM isn't close enough to you either, then you're stuck with satellite and 3G, whose monthly data transfer caps aren't near enough for streaming feature-length video.
This is a big thing - DVD and Blu-Ray have lengthy startup sequences that you are not allowed to skip (they kindly say "not available" if you try, but might as well say "neener neener"). Add that to the time it takes to locate a disk, insert it into the drive, let it spin up, etc..
Netflix lets me watch something *now*. No startup, just right into the movie. That's exactly what I want.
Some of us have no interest in streaming our media. And many of us have no interest in storing our stuff in the cloud.
I want my movies stored local, offline, and accessible when I want it and without asking permission. Streaming is just going to lead to 'monetizing' each view. Storing it in the cloud means I can't watch movies on the plane, in bed, or by the pool.
I'm probably old fashioned, but I still buy Blu Ray discs and CDs which I rip to MP3. With ISPs adding bandwidth caps and the like, I'm not going to pay to stream down a movie I've already bought, and then pay my ISP again for the bandwidth for re-watching the movie again. Everyone wants a piece of that action, and I'm not playing.
So, for many of us, the physical disk is going to remain as the way we play these movies for a long time yet.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I just built myself a new PC two weeks ago. $20 for a good quality DVD-RW drive vs $60 for the cheapest Blu-Ray drive (just a Blu-ray player w/ DVD burner, not even a Blu-ray burner). When DVD-R began to overtake CD-R, I made the switch because I needed the extra capacity. However, hard drives have plummeted in price, microSD/SD/flash media has plummeted in price and services like Dropbox means I don't need to use write-once media to backup or transport files anymore. I don't see any different between DVD and Blu-ray movie quality (especially since I can't afford a television to take advantage of that quality), so what does blu-ray have to offer me even if I did have the capability?
Even though watching a movie even just two times is unlikely.
Unless you have single-digit-year-old kids who "wanna watch Sin-duh-weh-wuh again, Daddy." There are some films suitable for a repeat viewing, and a lot of those are G-rated animated films. For me when I was growing up, it was The Care Bears Movie.
What doesnt help is that there are maybe 3 media player programs that can run Blu-rays, all of them about 90-95 megabytes, all of them $100 or more. Thats more than I paid for the DRIVE.
that a majority of the consumers don't have a fast and reliable Internet connection.
While certainly there are large portions of the U.S. who for various reasons do not have fast or reliable net connections, there is also the issue of costs.
In my area, to get 25/25 by itself costs $70/month. That's if you have a verizon phone line. Without the line you can add another $5/month.
If you want 50/20, that will cost you $140/month ($145 without phone).
Even 15/5 is expensive at $50/month with a phone line).
So people have to think: do I want to shell out $70/month just to have a high speed connection? Do I need that high speed connection?
Right now, there is a large portion of the population who says no, that is too high and not worth the money.
Until some form of TRUE competition is injected into the marketplace (2 providers is not competition), the cost/benefit ratio is not consumer friendly.
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After updating my PS3's firmware, I could no longer play my blu-ray backups that I had ripped with AC3 audio.
I didn't hesitate. I sold my PS3 and bought parts to build an HTPC - and never looked back.
I don't regret the decision at all. Neither will you.
When will we be able to stream bluray quality to our homes over an affordable internet connection? Given that a bluray based 1080p movie is about 15GB in size, to stream that amount of data to your house in 2 hours would require an internet connection of about 17Mb/s.
I know, I know, most people can't tell when you're getting heavily compressed, downsampled whatever using H.264 ogg-something-or-other. But when someone invests a couple grand into their TV+stereo+speakers, we'd like to be able to get a high quality input into it and not a something that's sufficient for the 6 o'clock news.
I'm not a audiophile, but a believer in garbage-in = garbage-out. I hope the media companies or movie studios don't force us down the path of the lowest common denominator which would be low quality streams fit for an iphone. It's a shame that in order to get a high quality stream you need to pay a ton for the internet connection and then most likely pay a ton for a 1080p stream.
That's exactly the point. Yes, the vendor dictates the terms, but I decide whether I accept them. And I don't.
I don't quite get the idea why throwing more shit at my face is supposed to make me buy it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You mean, after they sell this crap to some clueless people with lame net connections, the format is going to die, and they get to sell something else?
And they're supposed to regard that as a problem?
AnyDVD-HD and VLC. Or AnyDVD-HD, eac3to, x.264, mkvmerge, and then VLC or my fave XBMC but not in a portable ;-)
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The only reason that streaming services haven't completely phased out Blu-rays is the fact that a majority of the consumers don't have a fast and reliable Internet connection.
I can think of two other reasons:
* Consumers who for whatever reason aren't willing to go "grey market" or "black market" can't access titles that aren't licensed by streaming services.
* Many collectors and some other consumers like a factory-made, factory-authorized physical medium.
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One slight problem .. Iron Man 2 is available for streaming, but Iron Man is not. No high speed streaming solution is going to help out when there is a legal roadblock to streaming movies.
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What I want to know is why Blurays take so long to load.
When I want to watch a movie, typically, I want to watch the movie, not wait sevefral minutes for the disk to load, then try to skip through 15 minutes of commercials (if it's possible to skip through them at all).
When I first got my Bluray play, I upgraded my Netflix membership to Bluray. 2 weeks later, I downgraded back to DVD because DVD's are more usable. I've bought a few movies on Bluray, but for the vast majority of what I watch, DVD quality is more than sufficient (even Netflix streaming quality is more than sufficient).
The operating system on my laptop boots up faster than the time it takes most Blurays to load on my bluray player.
And what's with the firmware updates that are needed for some disks to work!? My 8 year old DVD player has never needed a firmware update and it plays all of the DVDs I own but I've already run into a couple disks that refused to work without a bluray player firmware update.
I'm sure the Bluray gives content producers much more freedom to produce rich content, fancy menus and other features (which includes enhanced DRM), but all I want to do is watch my movie.
When people say that media is obsolete and downloads are going to replace it, they have no grasp on the reality of the situation. The vast majority of people I know do not stream their video -- they buy it. Because in Canada, when you buy media, you OWN the media. But if you pay for a download, you don't own schite.
Furthermore, although high speed access up to 10Mbit is available here, even 6.4Mbit downloads will cost you around $60/month and it takes hours or even DAYS to download a full 1080p video. So for many people (myself included), downloading a torrent to check out a 480p preview is one thing, but when we want to buy and keep a movie we like, we want the BluRay disk to have that physical OWNED copy and to save on the download time.
But then again, I've always been rather different in my attitude on the purpose of preview "piracy" than the typical freetard. I'm not trying to avoid purchases; I'm trying to decide what's worth purchasing.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I have a VERY fast internet connection with a VERY fast wifi node. I get Netflix best HD stream but Blu Rays still look better. Netflix also sends down a stereo audio feed, not 5.1 or Master Mass market won't care, they are still watching fat people (stretch) on the HD set, but if you do care, Netlfix is a movie, but the Blu Ray can be an experience. Depends on the movie if that matters.
Wrong. There are many reasons:
* Not everything is available for streaming
* When a film or TV show is available for streaming today, it doesn't mean it will be available for streaming one month, one year, or five years from now
* An Internet connection is required for each and every device you wish to view movies on
* No extra features such as commentaries, deleted scenes, etc.
* inferior video quality
* Few streamed movies offer DD 5.1, let alone DD7.1, 9.1, 9.2, or 11.1 or 11.2 nor do they offer DTS nor other enhanced surround standards
* With a DVD you OWN that copy (evidence: Sony, Disney, etc. all advertise "Own it on DVD today!" or "Own it on Blu-Ray today!" They never say "rent a revocable license on DVD today!" You BUY that COPY and OWN that COPY, just as you OWN a book.
(yes I could have used bold for emphasis but this needs to be drilled through pundits' heads so "yelling" is appropriate)
* Bandwidth caps
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What are you people talking about? Blu-rays DO NOT cost 2 or 3 times what a DVD does! New releases at Walmart are typically $19.96 for DVD and $24.96 for blu-ray. The upgrade in quality (not just the picture, but the sound too, maybe even more so the sound!) is well worth the $5. And if you wait a couple of months, MANY can be found for $10 or so. Players are available for under $100, and even the premium models (3D, wireless networking, streaming apps built in) are often under $200. Streaming rarely provides 1080p picture, and I'm not aware of ANY streaming services providing the pristine lossless audio of blu-ray.
VASIMR to Mars!
I bought the last one, I think. :)
No one will ever steal it, unless they bring a forklift.
Amazingly, my cable system finally started broadcasting some channels in 1080 this month... I bought the set in 2004.
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