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NHTSA Suggestion Would Cripple In-Car GPS Displays
bricko writes "The recently issued National Highway Transportation Safety Agency guidelines for automakers to minimize distraction for in-vehicle electronics included a proposal to freeze maps on navigation systems. No more scrolling maps...just static pictures. 'Every current installed navigation system uses the car as a fixed point, and shows the map moving around it. NHTSA wants that changed so as to keep the map fixed. Even showing the position of the car moving on the map could be considered a dynamic image. The recommendation seems to suggest that the position of the car could only be updated every couple of seconds. Likewise, the map could be refreshed once the car has left the currently displayed area. This recommendation would essentially make navigation unusable. The system could still give an auditory warning for the next turn, but without being able to glance down at the map and see how close the next street is would likely lead to a lot of missed turns and resultant frustration.'"
People will just realize they are about to go the wrong way and change lanes even later than they already do.
In other news, picture books whose pages are turned every few seconds are set to replace current programming on several major TV stations.
While this move is being decried by futurists, it cannot be denied that it provides a greater source of intellectual stimulation than current shows.
I swear, government must be run by the lowest common denominator.
Your brain will easily tune out a smoothly scrolling picture that has minute changes one frame to the next. A change in the visual environment that is small will not trigger a threat assessment by the brain.
However, if the image is still, and then suddenly changes, that is a far more significant change in the visualized environment, and the brain will tune to it to see if that change represents a threat.
Drivers should focus on the street and the traffic and not being distracted by some ads.
*shrugs* If I need GPS, I use my cell phone. It has current maps, and doesn't require me to buy a $200 update every few months so I'm up to date.
I also stuff it in the cup holder and just listen to the auditory commands, if I'm using it for navigation. The screen *is* a distraction. If I want to study the route, I'll do it when the car isn't moving.
Actually, to that end, I'm a bit surprised that the NHTSA isn't suggesting that the in-dash navigation systems should blank the screen while the car is moving. That would make things significantly safer, I think.. they could even make it so that if it's pulled out and facing the passenger seat instead of the driver, the screen unblanks and updates, so that a passenger can give directions.
For those of you bleating about how this idea will make GPS "unusable", I have one question:
Have you ever used a paper map?
Remember the "bad old days" of folding out the map at the side of the road, looking at it, and planning the next leg of your trip?
That's right: figuring out where and when you have to turn BEFORE you reach the turn. Actually KNOWING where you're going instead of letting a machine do the "thinking".
This change would not cause the world to come to a sudden end, but it might well force people to think and plan for themselves again. And if that means some brain-dead loser suddenly can't get where they're going, I say "good riddance -- you were a road hazard anyhow, careening around the streets with no idea where you are going."
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Not only that, but the car's velocity would no longer be conveyed with a static display. It's why digital numeric-readout speedometers were a failure in 1980's Fords -- they didn't convey acceleration.
1. All this will do is encourage people NOT to waste $2,500 on in car GPS units and use their cell phones handheld or mounted to their dashboards.
2. It clearly shows the NHTSA hasn't done any real research on this issue. If they had, they would have come out with a much different solution. My own independent research has made it clear that GPS units screen movement are not the issue but the location of the unit. (off to the right, centered in console)
Safety would be greatly improved by relocating the GPS console to the driver's side directly in line of sight, and with a night heads-up display even better. Why is this? Because having it in the center of the console forces drivers to look away from the road, and offers ZERO reduction in distraction. However, placement in front of the driver's line of sight does something interesting. Even when the driver is distracted by looking at the screen, the road remains in the driver's line of sight, and the driver's peripheral vision remains on the road.
Peripheral vision is attuned to movement. A driver is able to still be alerted to an incoming car or obstacle even while focusing on the GPS screen when it is position properly.
D@|\/|N Government....
While we're at it, why not get rid of all those other dynamic displays: gas gauge, speedometer, rear-view mirror ...
Well that's moronic. What if you're the passenger. *sheesh*
Indeed. I refuse to use a GPS where I can't have a map with north up, but instead have to rely on the constantly shifting view made for people who can't read maps nor think further ahead than the next turn, but can only relate to the direction the car is going in right now.
What's really sad is how such a large part of the population lacks skills that were common. Like estimating distances, giving correct change without a calculator, making a meal from scratch or reading a map. People don't use technologies to make things they know how to do easier, they use them so they won't have to learn something in the first place.
At my best estimate, this Great Age Of Ignorance became mainstream in the late 80s, early 90s, and has continued since. There used to be a saying that someone was so dumb that they couldn't find their ass without a map, but these days, the average Joe or Jane would look dumbly at the map.
If you can't read a map but rely on POV views, I don't want you on the roads without special dispensation and training. You have no spatial awareness, and are a danger to others.
Cell phone use is being banned in cars because studies showed that you effectively drive "drunk" when you're talking on the phone. Science wins on that one. What's the equivalent evidence for GPS systems? I haven't heard of anything. In fact, GPS systems appear to have been designed to minimize such distractions, allow easy and quick referencing and along with voice instructions, allow relatively safe navigation. I think science wins on this one as well. Scrap the regulation.
The screen *is* a distraction. If I want to study the route, I'll do it when the car isn't moving.
Depends on the cities you drive in. I glance at the screen when I am unsure what the GPS means. Sometimes the device is silent but driving what seems straight to me is the wrong way - I need to keep right (the device would tell me to "keep left" if I actually needed to go straight in that place), this is probably some weirdness in the map.
Also, sometimes two roads are very close to each other, so when the device tells me to "turn right" I need to glance at the screen so see whether should I turn right now or go 15m and then turn right.
I use my UMPC for GPS. It has a bigger screen than my phone.
While they are at it, perhaps the tachometer and speedometer should be frozen, since they could be distracting. Make the turn signal indicators solid... that blinking can be distracting. Better make sure there is no sweep/seconds hand on any clock.
And passengers- especially children, those should be frozen too. They are MAJOR moving distractions.
Oh- they should repaint all the lines on the roads to not have dashes, since those appear to be moving. Mirrors....
Look at the dearth of numerical LCD gauges in cars. Why is that? We used analogue meters back in the day because, well, that's all we had. However in a modern car, that instrument cluster is part or all digital on the back end. It has to convert the digital signals it gets to the analogue gauges. So why not go for digital LED numbers? Cheaper to produce, and more accurate. You'd know your speed down to the MPH (presuming the unit that reads it is that accurate). In fact there were some cars with them at one point, but they seem to have gone away.
Well the reason is it is distracting. If you put a big LCD speed readout there it's abrupt changes distract the driver more than the smooth movement of a needle. Quick changes catch the eye, smooth motion not as much.
Same would hold true for something like this. A smooth updating map that scrolls along with car movement isn't very noticeable. Something suddenly changing draws the attention.
*shrugs* If I need GPS, I use my cell phone. It has current maps, and doesn't require me to buy a $200 update every few months so I'm up to date.
I also stuff it in the cup holder and just listen to the auditory commands, if I'm using it for navigation. The screen *is* a distraction.If I want to study the route, I'll do it when the car isn't moving.
Agreed, so the real question is what is preventing people from using their cell phones as dynamic GPS in the future, or is the NHTSA going after ALL devices with GPS technology and guidance software (i.e. even a laptop with Microsoft Streets and Trips)? I doubt their reach will go that far, but anything short of that is basically pointless.
Actually, to that end, I'm a bit surprised that the NHTSA isn't suggesting that the in-dash navigation systems should blank the screen while the car is moving. That would make things significantly safer, I think..
Ah, no, that would make things significantly more worthless. a GPS navigation system without a dynamic visual aide has basically been reduced to the value of a paper map. Might have fixed the problem, but you're sure not going to sell too many $3000 navigation packages on cars.
they could even make it so that if it's pulled out and facing the passenger seat instead of the driver, the screen unblanks and updates, so that a passenger can give directions.
Or the driver could just pull it out themselves and lay it on the passenger seat and use it anyway. Oh, the tech won't turn on because it doesn't sense a passenger (weight sensor tied to the airbag system)? No problem, I'll just set my backpack in the front seat, that usually does the trick.
Try and idiot-proof something, the world will build a better idiot. The real answer here to curb distracted driving is to punish appropriately and ENFORCE IT. Threatening someone with a $200 ticket doesn't mean shit if it's empty threats 99% of the time.
If I wanted updates on my driving every few seconds, I wouldn't bother to duct tape my wife's mouth.
Paper maps don't scroll OR indicate where you are
Which is why you can't look at them while you're driving. GPS scrolling is safer (than what the NHTSA is proposing) because the car is always in the centre of the screen. You can actually look at it and then back back at the road in a safe amount of time because you don't have to find the car on the map.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -- Albert Einstein
GPS systems are a huge distraction. Do you really need a GPS for day-to-day driving? For most people, how often do you really drive somewhere you don't know? No more than a few times a year. And do you really need a GPS in a city you don't know? No. READ THE ROAD SIGNS! CHECK A MAP BEFORE YOU LEAVE! Folks that drive with GPS seem like some of the worst drivers on the road. Why? They are watching the screen and not the road signs. They are missing the obvious visual clues to where they are going.
GPS laws might not get much traction. Most places it's illegal to drive while on the cell phone but people still do it. Somehow, you put that iPhone in a dash mount and people somehow thing it is now a legal "hands free" device. People need some common sense.
For that reason, paper maps are *far* more dangerous to use while driving. No use glancing at them, you need to look at them for a bit to orientate yourself and make sense of them. Yes, you could study the map before you leave, but most people are not really able to memorize the complete route, and it certainly isn't easy to re-route if you miss your turn.
Our former head of traffic police (in the Netherlands), who is notoriously averse of gadgetry in cars, quoted several studies that navigation systems are by far the safest option for navigating an area that you're not familiar with, winning over memorizing maps, having paper maps in the car, stopping to ask directions, or just winging it. The one thing that is safer is having a co-pilot with either a paper map or a GPS.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Having driven on rural roads in Nevada, I would hope you don't need a GPS for help - i.e. take next left turn in 115 miles. First business on left (28 miles).
Outlaw coffee and food and drink in the car, and you will find more accidents from sleepy people.
Helpful Disclaimer: this is not based on empirical evidence, but just out of a desire to be able to have food or drink in the car. It is a rationalization in which I assume empirical evidence will bear out anecdotal observations which fit with post-hoc rationalizations that accord with my existing (though only occasional) habits.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
In the 1940s, what it took to be a great physicist was, among other things, ability at mental arithmetic. Nowadays, fundamental physics is completely beyond mental arithmetic. Are you suggesting that CERN or the Tevatron are a step back from the Manhattan Project?
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Generally speaking, I agree with you. On the other hand, I know some people (my wife) who can't navigate anywhere and are constantly turned around. The reality is some people have a good sense of direction and can memorize a map with ease, and some people can't.
I'd rather have my wife using a GPS then call me frustrated while trying to describe where she is while actually having no idea and just becoming more and more angry.
I don't have time to make a sig
Why does everything come down to the distraction and not the driver. A good driver won't be distracted by a scrolling map, won't answer there phone on the highway and etc.......
Because the entire transport infrastructure of the western world, as well as large chunks of the economy, rely on every man and his dog driving a private car.
By all means introduce a system in which getting a driver's license is more akin to getting a pilot's license, but be prepared for General Motors shares to take a hit and a lot of out-of-town shopping malls to get boarded up. You might have to start paying cab drivers like professionals too if you require professional qualifications (apologies to cab drivers in London and other UK cities who have to pass "the knowledge" and, while not known for their patient and couteous driving, certainly don't need no stinking' GPS - took me a while to realise that when traveling outside the UK you need to take a map for the cab driver).
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
To be blunt, how would you have the least freaking clue whether or not it has a "surprisingly minimal effect on driving."? All you know is that you haven't had to swerve or stomp on your brakes in a while.
I suspect the drivers around you might have a difference of opinion on the matter.
We need an information based way of considering these things. A measurement of how much total distraction a car is allowed to give the driver. Then we can use that metric to allow or disallow various things.
It's perfectly safe for a driver on an open highway to use a cell phone. If he has a manual transmission, less so. If he's drinking coffee too, probably unsafe. A driver may be able to handle a GPS safely if it's in visual format for faster integration. Perhaps the car should allow no more than two of: manual transmission, radio, cell phone, GPS.
It's been proven that talking on the phone is almost as distracting without the headset.
My point is by worrying about where the driver's eyes are they're taking entirely the wrong approach.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
North is essential if you are lost in the woods and have no idea as to your location, but do know your direction.
But in a moving car, we turn steering wheels "left" or "right", not "North" or "South." Re-orienting the map to the current direction of travel makes perfect sense, especially if you are looking at the display quickly, and it's not immediately clear which way the car is pointed. (At least, not without looking at the symbol for your current location closely.)
With the map always being oriented to the direction of travel, I can see out of the corner of my eye how far it is to the next turn, and which direction the turn will be in. If the map stays oriented North, and I'm right on top of a turn from, say, East to South, I can't tell if I need to make a turn at all, or if I'm supposed to go straight; at least, not without examining the direction pointer closely.
I am wasteing my previous mod points but oh well I do not have a in car navagation system or gps or even smart phone with internet, but you say that people do not need gps nav because most people do not go all that many places that they do not the way to all that often. That may be true for you but if for people like me who go trying out new hiking and camping and fishing places way out in the middle of nowhere on back roads a nav system would be a God send. I hate trying to read a map while driving and no reading it before hand is not always enough. If I am driving clear across Washington state to go fishing with freinds just glancing at a map before leaving is not enough. Just because you do not have a use for it does not mean others do not have a use for it.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Glancing at a screen from time to time, while listening to the audio directions is really not much of a distraction. I am stuck delivering pizza at the moment...
But posting to Slashdot while driving a car is downright dangerous!
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
My Ex recently borrowed a GPS device to go to a wedding for some friends. The location was in a city with which she was almost completely unfamilar except for the main interstate route. She told me how this machine gave her instructions like:
"There's been an accident a few blocks ahead - Turn left at the movie theater"
"Drive around behind the theater and find the 1 lane concrete bridge - look for a green trash dumpster next to it."
"Cross the bridge and turn right - the speed limit is 25 - you are in a residential neighborhood, watch for children>"
It got her to the wedding with no delays. I've got no idea who makes one like that, and she just assumed they were all like that.
Who is John Cabal?
It's so comforting to know that everyone on slashdot is a perfect driver and incredibly adept at navigating by map or reference to the stars. You guys are really amazing, your smugness is so well deserved! I feel so SAFE when I drive by one of you, map in one hand, bagel in the other and driving with your knee while valiantly resisting the spread of distracting technology!
Now, judging by most of the people I see on the road, you guys are in the overwhelming minority. Ban GPS entirely, and bad drivers will keep finding ways to be bad drivers.
I must know who makes it.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
... who work for the people you elected.
That's only technically true. They really work for themselves, basically trying not to be noticed as they expand empires.
A group like this can stick its neck out when they get slightly more sympathetic masters, but then turtle up anytime they get leaders who are not as sympathetic.
In that way EVERY governmental organization can simply ratchet itself larger and larger without end. They outlast any one elected official and grow without bounds until you have groups making such utterly stupid propositions as we see today.
This is just one of many reason why we need to see sharp reductions in federal government, not just monetary but actual headcount reduction to offset the unchecked growth we see from these groups. And that goes across the board.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you want to eliminate distractions, make handheld cellphones inoperable while moving.
As a bus and train passenger, I thank you for that suggestion. Not only will I be unable to use a cellphone even if I'm not endangering anyone, as I'll have to waste all my battery to keep the GPS always-on, in order to ensure that restriction.
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You're making the following groundless assumptions:
Do people really need a GPS? No. But that doesn't mean GPSs aren't a net benefit.
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Forcing others to have give up functionality because some boneheaded nanny state bureaucrat thinks that everybody else can't adapt to technology is the epitomy of NEOLUDDITE. The "way we have always done it" has been with maps, and everybody else who is no retarded has already pointed out the the bureaucrat preferred method to help us unwashed masses is to return to that paradigm through static displays updating periodically. Government intrusion without hard data to support its mandate is nothing more that meddling by self important assholes who are spending their workdays justifying their existence.
I don't think GPS moving map displays are the problem, at least after the first few times you use one. The larger issue is the terrible touch UI. It just isn't a good system when driving. I used to have an N95 that I used for navigation and as an MP3 player. I could easily search/spell using T9 without looking or with just a quick glance to make sure it had the correct spelling while driving. Now that I have an Android phone, I have to look at the screen to do anything because there's no way to feel the keyboard under my fingers. It is FAR more distracting to the point that I often need to pull over just to pick a new album.
I'm really looking forward to next generation systems that don't need touchscreens. The new Audi nav system that lets you draw letters on a console mounted touchpad is a good start. Steering wheel controls that could interface with phone's bluetooth HID protocol and act like a joystick mouse would be better.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
I know there's a lot of complaints about distractions, specifically cell phones, texting, smartphones, etc but has anyone reached the conclusion that driving is somehow more dangerous than it used to be?
I'm a little concerned that we're managing by statistics and only interested in lower numbers, which is not evil, it seems kind of misleading and leads to kind of draconian ideas to find the changes necessary to alter the statistics without taking into account some kind of bigger picture.
For example, if N people are killed or seriously injured due to futzing with a GPS, we decide to make the GPS less useful, without ever understanding that pre-GPS X people will killed or seriously injured fumbling with a piece of paper, looking for street signs and trying to read addresses in traffic.
I don't know if N or X is the larger number, but what if they are the same? We can't ban fumbling with a sheet of paper, but we can ban or hinder GPS. We may "solve" the GPS deaths but we just end up re-creating the other navigation deaths as well as inconveniencing people who otherwise find great benefit in GPS devices.
This. A thousand times, this. Right around the dawn of GPS, I had a job that required me to drive around to unfamiliar places all the time. I can't even tell you how many near misses I had while fucking around trying to read a map. One day, my boss gave me this new fancy-schmancy thing to put on my dash that would tell me where to go. My navigation became immeasurably safer overnight. That these fucking idiots are now talking about "safety concerns" with GPS nav systems is absolutely mind-boggling to me; the GPS nav system is one of the BEST safety features that you can have if you have to take long, complicated routes with many turns. This is like the NHTSA getting upset about other drivers being blinded by headlights, so they mandate that all car headlights must shut off when there is another car in the vicinity.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
You live in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area, but the city roads are terrible and you don't drive into them much. You get called for Jury duty, requiring that you do drive into the city to reach the courthouse. The GPS helps you from being lost in a mass of spaghetti-style exit structures for the access roads, and multiple one-way streets. Also important, if you make a wrong turn, and get off your chosen directions, it can help you find your way back. I know this from experience.
I can't place judgment on your opinion, because I know I used to have a low opinion of GPS, so I know how easy it is to think just as you do. In fact, my opinion of GPS was much like the xkcd on Google Maps. But after serving Jury duty, I now appreciate it greatly, and understand why people rely on them so much.
You completely miss the point.
There's nothing wrong in using a calculator if you know how to calculate, and use it to make life easier. What's wrong is using it instead of learning how to calculate. You become dependent on it, and are helpless as a baby when it isn't available.
Similar with butchering and sewing. Knowing a little bit of both doesn't hurt, and not only makes it possible for you to prepare a meal and mend your clothes on a cabin trib, but also makes it easier to communicate one's wants and needs to the professionals, i.e. a butcher or a tailor.
But somehow I have a feeling you don't go to either of them, but buy your meat pre-cut and your clothes made in foreign countries.
How dependent and helpless people become because of ignorance became clear last October, when we had a surprise heavy snowfall which knocked out power in most of the region for 1-2 weeks, with biting cold temperatures. People killed themselves and their families by not knowing how to operate a fireplace. Others got ill because they didn't know how to maintain hygiene without running hot water. People abused the emergency shelters to get hot coffee because they didn't know how to make coffee the old fashioned way. And stores run by old people were generally open, because they knew how to run a store without relying on computers and electricity, while stores run by young people were closed.
Ignorance - the only deadly sin.
People can't function as well with these distracting devices. Your brain is wired to be be drawn to moving items like a scrolling image on the dash. It is not an AGE specific problem. Sure this may be upsetting like a reality show contestant finding out for the 1st time (on national TV) that they actually suck -- your brain isn't all you may believe it to be.
GPS makers may make a MODE for this; that is, until a law is written... won't be hard to have some studies to back it since the recommendation is well grounded in at least a basic understanding. I've done some reading in the area; go find a prof and ask.
The NHTSA not unreasonable; having learned to read maps I can manage without GPS and would be perfectly fine with a static ICON image moving on the map; the map itself refreshing no more than every 5 seconds.
Note: Speedometer changes constantly; but it is SMALL and consistent in motion--- a sliding changing surface is a larger more distracting item. One shouldn't misunderstand the reasons behind such recommendations.
Now the difference here is likely lower than the amount of accidents the old cause... but we can't recommend or remove driving rights from the largest voting block. Given how many distracted drivers almost KILLED me, I'm for anything that makes people DRIVE. I don't care about those people stupid enough to drive off a cliff because the GPS told them to... well, then I think the GPS is doing us a favor.
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