Minecraft Creator's New Game Called 0x10c

silentbrad writes "As announced last month, Notch — creator of Minecraft — is working on a sandbox space game (no, not the Mars Effect April Fools joke, though it's similar). "The game [0x10c] is still extremely early in development, but like we did with Minecraft, we expect to release it early and let the players help me shape the game as it grows. The cost of the game is still undecided, but it's likely there will be a monthly fee for joining the Multiverse as we are going to emulate all computers and physics even when players aren't logged in. Single player won't have any recurring fees. ... The computer in the game is a fully functioning emulated 16 bit CPU that can be used to control your entire ship, or just to play games on while waiting for a large mining operation to finish. Full specifications of the CPU will be released shortly, so the more programatically advanced of you can get a head start.""

Comments

Towns

[GamerGirlie]

Seriously Slashdot, who the hell cares? There are many better indie games in development.

For example, take a look at Towns, which is somewhat a mix between Dwarf Fortress (but with graphics and nicer to use), Settlers and Nethack.

Towns brings a fresh new take on the citybuilding/management genre by introducing many RPG features.

Drawing inspiration from games such as Diablo, Dungeon Keeper and Dwarf Fortress, the game has you managing a settlement on top of an active dungeon. Instead of playing the hero who delves deep into the dungeon, how about playing the town that houses and caters to the hero's needs?

Both the RPG and strategic aspects will be fleshed out over a series of sprawling dungeons.

Craft unique weapons, obtain randomized loot and build a settlement capable of holding back the forces that come up from the depths!

I was just introduced to this game the other day and by far it has been a blast. I always wanted to play Dwarf Fortress too, but the interface is so crappy that I just couldn't. Towns, however, combines everything I want with a nice interface. And yes, while this sounds somewhat shilling, it's because I think the game and concept is actually really great and want to see this game become something great. It's currently in alpha (but available) and the gameplay is already fun.

If Slashdot is going to report about indie games development, at least report something new and interesting and not something that doesn't even have any pictures, videos or anything to test. Sigh.

Re:Towns

[ak_hepcat]

Seriously? You think a site like /. doesn't have readers that might be interested in a game that contains
a VIRTUALIZED CPU THAT CAN BE FREELY PROGRAMMED?

What are you, some sort of reddit user?

Re:Towns

[ak_hepcat]

Also? RTFA.

Here's the CPU:
http://0x10c.com/doc/dcpu-16.txt

Re:Towns

[Meditato]

I disagree with your tone. I particularly (and universally) despise the statement "who the hell cares?" because it contains an arrogant implication that you speak for everybody.

That being said, I agree with the sentiment that Slashdot ignores good indie games, but my agreement is not for the reasons you think.

You might ask "but what about Mojang"? Mojang is a multi-million dollar game studio that has shown it can tangle with the big boys. Its flagship product has sold millions of copies. It sells products across multiple platforms. It's been the star of a cover article in every major game magazine. It's not "indie" by any stretch of the imagination.

Slashdot ignores nearly ALL indie game developers, with the exception of iphone app developers.

Thank you for recommending "Town", I'll check it out.

Re:Towns

[GamerGirlie]

There's tons of games with scripting support. Hell, if you are a programmer (like you would have to be for this), you can do this for practically any game. Get ollydbg, debug some and patch any existing game to run commands automatically. It's much more interesting too.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

Either you and the site is very bad at marketing itself, or SimCity + DF isn't a very appealing combination. I think I'd rather play one or the other, instead of a lukewarm mixture of the two.

Re:Towns

[noh8rz3]

i dont understand... 16 bit is like the snes. would the game be like a snes game?

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, Mojang definitely is "indie". Indie does not mean small or low budget, it's short for independent, as in, independent of the major publishers. Mojang self publishes, hence they are "indie". One hit game does not make them a major publisher.

Re:Towns

[Mr Z]

How many games run the scripts on the server, even when you're not logged in?

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the 16-bit CPU is inside the game. This will be like a game SNES.

Re:Towns

[Mr Z]

Well, the simulated processor is 16 bit, but that just runs the code you write to control your ship and such, as I understand it. Read carefully: "The computer in the game is a fully functioning emulated 16 bit CPU that can be used to control your entire ship, or just to play games on while waiting for a large mining operation to finish."

That means as part of the game, the game provides you a computer to work with, and that computer is 16 bit. There's a whole game going on outside that computer.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a girl and by the sounds of it a young one. It almost sounds trollish too. I for one love dwarf fortress. The interface is terrible, but the game play is on par with the most advanced rts out there. Of course it is all opinion so troll lo lo lo la

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously Slashdot, who the hell cares? There are many better indie games in development.

-whipcrack- Back. To. Facebook! -whipcrack-

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

actually if this was posted to /r/gaming, i don't think anyone would say "who cares"

Re:Towns

[Fned]

Assembly is "scripting" now?

Re:Towns

[Kefabi]

What I thought was the most interesting paragraph:

The possibilities of this CPU and generator are... Fascinating. For instance, users players (see, lines are already blurring) can exchange programs, so you can expect a lively scene of people exchanging programs. There's a nefarious side to this as well - Notch will not stop anyone from making viruses, so even computer security becomes an element of play. A virus could, for instance, disable a ship's weaponry or shields.

Re:Towns

[Cinder6]

Uh, Mojang definitely is "indie". Indie does not mean small or low budget, it's short for independent, as in, independent of the major publishers. Mojang self publishes, hence they are "indie". One hit game does not make them a major publisher.

That definition doesn't seem to go with the popular definition. If all that's required to be an indie studio is to self-publish, then EA is an indie studio.

Re:Towns

[Fned]

The onboard computer in your spaceship, in the game, is 16-bit.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

Precisely. INCEPTION.

Re:Towns

[GamerGirlie]

I said there's scripting support in many games. AND THEN there's also assembly and debugging.

Re:Towns

[Mr Z]

Yes, that is fairly interesting. I had noticed it also, and wondered how it might work.

It implies there will be some mechanism for the "computers" to exchange data and programs. (Since it looks like a bog standard von Neumann architecture, there's very little distinction.) For viruses to really take off, though, they need to exploit some vulnerability that's common to many programs. So, either these computers will have some baseline of common software that they come with, or there will be some widely popular 3rd party programs written by a handful of gamers, or some combination of the two. I imagine that third case is the most likely.

This has shades of Core Wars to it, actually. I wonder if that was an inspiration?

Re:Towns

[Mr Z]

A different point of amusement: The processor's capabilities and speed are roughly equivalent to the processor in the Intellivision. Most instructions are 1, 2 or 3 machine cycles long, but the processor apparently only runs at 100kHz. The Intellivision's CPU is 895kHz, but instructions take 6 to 14 cycles. The Intellivision is slightly faster, but lacks hardware divide/multiply and has less flexible addressing modes.

So, on the whole, it looks like "Intellivisions.... In..... SPACE!!!!!!!"

Re:Towns

[mindwhip]

I wouldn't waste your time on towns it isn't much more than a standard resource gather and build sim with some sight tweaks, isometric 3d and poor Gameboy like graphics and animation. Even the tutorial is misleading as the instructions on how to do stuff aren't what you actually need to do...

No real innovation at all.

If you ask me parent is somehow connected to Towns and is bitter he can't produce good games while others can...

Re:Towns

[Meditato]

1. That doesn't make any sense. By that definition, all major game studios would be independent.

2. Mojang is not a small time player anymore.

3. "Indie" definitely does indeed refer to small time self-owned business encompassing a very small group of people (I usually don't even use the word "studio" unless they actually have a physical studio). There is no other sensical definition.

4. I've been a part of an indie development shops. Mojang is not an indie development shop.

Re:Towns

[Jarik C-Bol]

The reason EA is not Indie is because they are a publisher. Other, smaller companies make games for them. For example, DICE made Battlefield 1942, but EA funded/published it, because EA has the money and name to get it out there.
Mojang is indie because they made the game, AND they published the game. DICE, had it funded and published Battlefield 1942 themselves, they would have been the big Indie publisher on the block at the time. Now, if Mojang starts spending their money to fund other developers, and publishes a game for them, then they would be on the road to becoming a major publisher.

Re:Towns

[GamerGirlie]

Where did I say it was innovative? It's more like it combines all my favorite games together. What I understand the authors don't like the comparison to other games so making that comment while being "connected" to them would be stupid, but nevertheless it's still a great game. There is another similar, and multiplayer game called Haven and Heart, but sadly it is quite buggy. If they would improve the interface etc it would be great.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

i dont understand... 16 bit is like the snes. would the game be like a snes game?

You're lost, aren't you? Don't worry, little kid, your parents will come by to get you back to Reddit soon.

Re:Towns

[lister king of smeg]

how long till someone ports dos to their ships computer?

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see how the word "independent", from which the corruption "indie" derives, has any relevance to the size of the group of people directly involved.

Oh, wait, hang on, is this some sort of hipster-logic thing that's supposed to work on the weak-willed and easily-jealous consumer? That'd explain why it sounds like hastily-constructed retcon gibberish to me. Sorry, hipster mind tricks don't work on most of us here, maybe we should've warned you before you made a fool of yourself.

Re:Towns

[Baloroth]

Or you could make a program that works amazingly well at what it does, but with a backdoor to malfunction at a critical point (bonus points for doing so in a way that makes it difficult to detect the source, like cause a weapons control program to make the engine malfunction). Lots of malware spreads that way, and for good reason (it's easy: the user spreads it for you). More of a trojan than a virus specifically: unless there is some method of semi-automated communication between the ships, though, a true virus seems hard to do.

Unless the server architecture itself has some sort of vulnerability that allows you to circumvent the normal gameplay and install software that way. That would be... interesting, to say the least.

Re:Towns

[Baloroth]

People are already working on an OS for the system, so probably not very long.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/mojang-turns-publisher

Re:Towns

[Mr Z]

Yeah, I had considered the trojan route also. I'm guessing there's enough people looking over others' programs that trojans won't last too long in the wild. But, I guess it just depends on how subtle the trojan is.

The difference between a backdoor and a coding error might only be found in the programmer's intent and not the code itself. For example, consider a buffer overflow that leads to arbitrary code execution: It's a coding error if the programmer didn't intend for that, but a backdoor if the programmer intended to exploit it later.

Re:Towns

[chrismcb]

at least report something new and interesting ...

This was recently announced. Can't get much newer than that. Announced by the author of a fairly popular game, and it has programming, and space... Pretty darn interesting.

Re:Towns

[chrismcb]

There is a difference between programming and in game computer, and scripting the game.
There is an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2. There are an infinite amount between 2 and 3. Are there more numbers between 1 and 3? How is programming in one one game more or less interesting than scripting in another game?

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

Not many people realise that Stuxnet was Notch testing out his early ideas for the game.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

They are a publisher, but they also develop games.
I should know, as I worked at EA for 6 years, specifically on sports titles.
Cheers.

-jamman

Re:Towns

[sonicmerlin]

Actually, yes there are more numbers between 1 and 3 than between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3.

Re:Towns

[phantomfive]

More of a trojan than a virus specifically: unless there is some method of semi-automated communication between the ships, though, a true virus seems hard to do.

A pedantic point on terminology, viruses can use human interaction to propagate, like in the old days when they used to travel on floppies. If it spreads automatically without any interaction, it is typically called a worm.

Re:Towns

[Electricity Likes Me]

It really depends on how the IO for the processor works out. It seems pretty likely that we'll end up with people who directly link sensor inputs to program IO decisions. You'll probably have a whole generation of things which can be buffer overflowed if you cause the right environment to exist around them.

Which will be hilarious.

Re:Towns

[AlamedaStone]

It is a girl and by the sounds of it a young one. It almost sounds trollish too. I for one love dwarf fortress. The interface is terrible, but the game play is on par with the most advanced rts out there. Of course it is all opinion so troll lo lo lo la

The only fun part about DF is the arcane interface. Once you've figured it out, there's no more game. It's like fun-through-obscurity, and it doesn't work any better for fun than it does for security.

Re:Towns

[AlamedaStone]

They are a publisher, but they also develop games.
I should know, as I worked at EA for 6 years, specifically on sports titles.
Cheers.

-jamman

There's a special place in hell for you, jamman.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought EA was that hell.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

You can make a "one-to-one" mapping of the numbers between 1 and 2 to the numbers between 1 and 3 and also in the opposite direction.

For a number between 1 and 2, multiply it by 2 and then subtract 1. For a number between 1 and 3, add 1 and divide by 2.

Every number in each range has a unique partner in the other range, so the two ranges must have the same amount of numbers.

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

No, dumbass, there are not. Same "number" of numbers between 1 and 3 as between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3. Infinite = infinite.

Re:Towns

[Nyder]

Seriously Slashdot, who the hell cares? ...

wow, just wow.

With a name like Gamergirlie and being on slashdot and yet you say what you said.

Do you know what site this is? Are you truely a gamer? Shit, are you even a girl?

Or worse, are you like 12 years old and think the world started with what you remember?

"OMG! Games are fun unless they have great graphics and magic ponies!!!! And rainbows!!!!"

Notch is making games that make you think, let you be super fucking creative and honestly, kick ass. If dude isn't one of the best Indie Game Makers out there, then he should be. Most indie games are the same shit i've been playing since the 80's, but have better graphics, sort of. Rehashed platformers, shooters, and RPG games.

Seriously, you need to change your name and hang your head in shame, there's more then 1 type of game in town, girlie.

Re:Towns

[Nyder]

A different point of amusement: The processor's capabilities and speed are roughly equivalent to the processor in the Intellivision. Most instructions are 1, 2 or 3 machine cycles long, but the processor apparently only runs at 100kHz. The Intellivision's CPU is 895kHz, but instructions take 6 to 14 cycles. The Intellivision is slightly faster, but lacks hardware divide/multiply and has less flexible addressing modes.

So, on the whole, it looks like "Intellivisions.... In..... SPACE!!!!!!!"

Sweet, i still have an Intellivision II, control sucks, but i'm ready!!!

Wait, how do i connect it to the net?

Re:Towns

[Anonymous Coward]

You can make a "one-to-one" mapping of the numbers between 1 and 2 to the numbers between 1 and 3 and also in the opposite direction.

Nitpick: Unless you work a job at the department of redundancy bureau, don't verbally say "one-to-one" and "and also in the opposite direction"; they're synonyms that mean the same thing.

Re:Towns

[flowwolf]

So because /. isn't reporting about a game that you like, that means 0x10c is trash? Honestly i've looked at towns and it IS just trying to be Dwarf Fortress, albeit with much less complexity. Dwarf Fortress is one of the most amazing tycoon game's I've played to date. The interface isn't bubble gum and candy wrapped for you, but honestly; I don't mind that. Get past that and you'll find game play far far richer than anything town's tries to hawk up.

0x10c has a programmable virtual CPU as an integral part of the gameplay. This is something new. This is something engineer type people would love. Towns only has the same thing done over again. Nothing original about it. This is why town's isn't reported on front page of /.

Re:Towns

[flowwolf]

There are subsets of infinity. All the numbers between 1 and 2 is one subset. All of the numbers between 1 and 3 is a greater subset. Infinity doesn't behave like regular numbers.

Re:Towns

[flowwolf]

Popular definition doesn't mean what you and your cohorts decided to make up one day. Independent absolutely means the producer of the media also funds their own distribution of the media. Whatever twisted logic you have come up with is absolutely wrong.

Re:Towns

[Nemba]

Nope, all intervals in the set of real numbers have the same cardinality. An easy way of making this more intuitive is to consider that for every number in the interval [0,1], it has an equivalent value in [0,2] which is twice as big. And, since you can choose a number with arbitrary precision, it is possible to generate every value in [0,2] by choosing the equivalent number from [0,1] which is half as big. Both of them simply have "uncountably infinite" members in one dimension. It's possible to have spaces with more members, if for example they have multiple dimensions.

Re:Towns

[Lanteran]

Hell, even reddit loved the idea. I'm thinking this poster may be from 4chan or something.

Re:Towns

[Lanteran]

Considering this is essentially a commodore 64, I give it about a minute.

Re:Towns

[firewrought]

there are more numbers between 1 and 3 than between 1 and 2

For every number n between 1 and 3, I can find exactly one (unique) number to match it between 1 and 2. (Specifically, let f(n) = (n - 1)/2 + 1.) If there were more, that would not be the case.

Re:Towns

[stepho-wrs]

This is the same as which contains more numbers:
A: 1,2,3,4,5,6,... or
B: 2,4,6,8,10,12,...
There is a direct one-to-one mapping from A to B:
f(x)=x/2
Therefore they have the same number of elements - aleph-0.

A mapping could also be made for every number between 1 and 3 to a number between 1 and 2:
f(x) = (x-1)/2
Therefore each contains the same number of elements.

Infinity, indeed, doesn't behave like regular numbers :)
There is no such number as 2 x aleph-0 because doubling aleph-0 is also just aleph-0 (see first example)
Similarly, the is no such number as aleph-0 + N (N being an ordinary number) because it is also just aleph-0.
The next number above aleph-0 is aleph-1, which is infinitely larger than aleph-0.

Re:Towns

[Nemba]

Not quite, in casual English, one-to-one could be a surjection/injection but not a bijection. E.g. if set A = {1,2,3,4} and B = {1,2,3,4,5}, then "b = a + 1" has a one-to-one mapping from A to B, but the other way (a = b - 1) doesn't, because A doesn't include zero.

I do enough of this in my day job.

[LanMan04]

May appeal to some, but...

Re:I do enough of this in my day job.

[Anonymous Coward]

You spend a lot of time mining unobtanium, eh?

Sorry man, you put it out there. :)

Re:I do enough of this in my day job.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like anything else in this world?

Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[Cito]

From reading Notch's twitter, reddit and forum posts. He's looking to create his version of Eve Online, course he mentioned Eve on the forum but he wanted a bigger sandbox whereas users could build similar to freedom to build in minecraft. But with a different spin on things.

the built in 16 bit cpu description on the 0x10c website is very interesting.

course he mentions a monthly fee for this one, so it won't be a 1 timer like minecraft, but definitely something to keep eyes on. Just hope he FINISHES it, and doesn't do like Minecraft where he writes half of it, gets bored and quits to move on to some other project.

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[kaellinn18]

The fee is just if you want to play online multiplayer (since the server will be spending cycles emulating your ship's computer whether you are online or not). Single player will still be a one-time charge.

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[Cito]

ah good to know. Course single player would probably be boring if it's a player run economy there's not much 1 person can do noone to sell too or buy from. will be interesting to see how it grows and what npc content will be put in, if any.

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[Thud457]

He's looking to create his version of Eve Online,

I saw no mention of any purported galactic spreadsheet empire.

And as far as the Inception reference, I'd be more interested in a utility that allows me to exit out to the next highest emulator level. Probably need a Valentine Michael Smith to write that one, though.

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[SomePgmr]

will be interesting to see [...] what npc content will be put in, if any.

So long as I get a proximity, heads-up groan... I'm sure it'll be fine.

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree, I wish he had finished Minecraft before boredom set in. Makes me wonder if he'll do it again. Won't be buying during alpha or beta this time around...

Re:Minecraft + Eve Online = 0x10c

[Teancum]

Agree, I wish he had finished Minecraft before boredom set in. Makes me wonder if he'll do it again. Won't be buying during alpha or beta this time around...

Do you really think Mojang is going to have a shortage of developers who would be willing to continue maintenance on something like 0x10^c? As long as the money keeps coming in, it will be maintained. Just because Markus Persson moves on to another project should be irrelevant.

Not Java. Please not Java.

[DurendalMac]

I can only imagine how godawful this would be if written in Java. Minecraft was bad enough on that front. I don't want to know what an emulated CPU would do in a JVM...

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure notch is able to write terrible code in every language.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Jello B.]

It's Java, as shown in this screenshot.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry about it. The CPU is pretty efficient cross-platform, because you code for it using MIX.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[DurendalMac]

And the 16-bit CPU is programmed with...assembly? Jesus Christ, please tell me that's not the only way he plans on letting people utilize it...

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

And the 16-bit CPU is programmed with...assembly? Jesus Christ, please tell me that's not the only way he plans on letting people utilize it...

If you don't like it, nut-up and write a C compiler!

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

why not? i'd be willing to bet other people will fill the gap pretty quickly. someone will make gcc support this within a few more weeks.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Sperbels]

If you don't like it, nut-up and write a C compiler!

There probably will be a few different compilers of different languages available by the time this game hits the shelves.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Orphis]

Here's a recent console emulated in Java. Have fun reading the code !
http://code.google.com/p/jpcsp/

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Zaphod The 42nd]

Man, Java isn't my favorite language in the world, but you really need to get over yourself. Notch can make whatever games he cares about, and you're free not to play them if you don't like the engine. Programming is WORK, and if he's putting it in, he can decide what language he wants to work in. If he thinks that being able to run it on any device without recompiling and targeting a separate architecture is worth the performance problems (and these days you can get away with quite a lot) and limitations, then thats his call. No, he can't do the sort of state-of-the-art efficiency that Frostbite 2 engine can pull off, but Notch isn't interested in that, and he doesn't have a big enough team to try to do that, and again, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. You're free to ignore it, but we don't need to hear your "AGH, JAVA!" moans over and over. "Java sucks" isn't really a joke anymore, java is what java is. Use it for what you will. Its one tool of many.

I can only imagine how godawful this would be if written in Java. Minecraft was bad enough on that front. I don't want to know what an emulated CPU would do in a JVM...

You mean like redstone computers that ALREADY EXIST? There's plenty of turing-complete implementations. And notch wasn't even TRYING to do that with minecraft. So please eat your words, immediately.

You're just showing how ignorant you are about software languages.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[mdarksbane]

Sounds like a pretty excellent project for a compiler/assembly class at university, actually.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the Java hate? I have the sneaking suspicion that half the people commenting have never used it, and instead rely on their experiences of web applets ten years ago and bloated software packages like Vuze.

Recent JVMs have come a long way and java code executes quite fast these days. Still not as fast as native c++ and friends, granted, but somewhere in the same ballpark. What you get in return is a higher lever language which takes care of annoying, time consuming details like managing memory and garbage collection so that you can actually focus on the stuff that matters, which would be game logic. Does anyone know a better solution for this? Some language that's easy to use yet powerful enough to do the job, and which runs on all systems with a modern JVM and OpenGL driver? Mono is still not quite complete. Python and Ruby are even worse than Java performance wise. Do you really want notch to write bad code in c++ or related languages?

Why do you even care? It's obvious that this indie game will not be like Crysis. It will not be a pixel pusher, and depending on the gameplay, it might not need that much performance.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[MostAwesomeDude]

I don't like C. Have Forth. https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/cauliflower

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[GmExtremacy]

Programming is WORK, and if he's putting it in, he can decide what language he wants to work in.

I'm not seeing where he was holding a gun to Notch's head and demanding he not make it in Java. He was simply saying that he wishes it wouldn't be made in Java (for one reason or another). Nothing wrong with criticism or opinions.

Just as he's free to post his opinion, you're free to do the same. "Wow! I love it!" isn't the only thing allowed to be posted, you know.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Zaphod The 42nd]

Thats fair, but the point was I reject his argument that it can't be done in java, or that it will be godawful in java. It has its limitations, but Minecraft runs just fine, and has redstone circuits, so his comment comes down to just general java-bashing without any real evidence or expertise.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Surt]

You don't really need a compiler to write programs for a device with less than 512 bits of memory. You can write the whole program by hand in less than the time required to launch a compiler.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

While Java the language has its advantages (such as simplicity, well-defined concurrency and massive eco-system), it also holds a considerable number of disadvantages. For one, partly due to its simplicity, it is not very expressive and has limited abstractions. Code written in other languages that does the same thing tends to be much more concise. And despite one of the language's goals of safety, it doesn't support non-imperative programming all that well. Even C++ has gotten more functional features (except for garbage collection) than Java at this point. Of course, this is generally offset by newer languages such as Scala and Clojure, which can utilize the existing Java eco-system without becoming bogged down with Java. Which brings us to the next point.

The JVM is great in certain contexts, especially server-side. But it is still a memory-hog, which means there are contexts where it is not really an option compared to certain alternatives (such as C or C++). Furthermore, the start-up time is often an issue. This is not a big issue in a server-context with long-running applications, but can be a considerable issue in other contexts. Another example is the distance between "the metal" and the JVM, which is much shorter for C and C++, which results in considerable overhead for applications such as graphics. The JVM is an awesome virtual machine with a lot of great technology that means it can potentially rival optimised C++ with much less effort on the programming side (for instance, automatically detecting when concurrency features are not needed for certain classes and methods and optimising them away, and reintroducing them when they are needed again - see escape analysis and the JVM. This isn't something that is easily supportable in C or C++), but you should still appreciate that there are contexts for which it simply isn't optimal.

That said, using the JVM for gaming is generally quite viable, especially if the graphical requirements aren't too large.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[wmbetts]

I'm kind of happy it's in Java. This means I'll actually be able to play it. He'll more than likely get a monthly subscription fee out of me, because of it.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

but Minecraft runs just fine.

Hahahahahahahahahaha... wait, were you trying to be serious?

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are already plenty, check their forums

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[FairAndHateful]

From the linked CPU specs

DCPU-16 Specification
Copyright 2012 Mojang
Version 1.1 (Check 0x10c.com for updated versions)

* 16 bit unsigned words
* 0x10000 words of ram
* 8 registers (A, B, C, X, Y, Z, I, J)
* program counter (PC)
* stack pointer (SP)
* overflow (O)

0x10000 16 bit words is not 512 bits. I think they'll find a compiler quite useful.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can already see it:

"My virtual computer in my game has been infected by a virus"

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

+5 funny, but actually true. It's mindboggling to think that the guy who ripped off a vastly superior game in what looks like some Kindergarten-level JavaBabble made such an enormous amount of money. I just don't understand how the world works sometimes.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[BenoitRen]

Recent JVMs have come a long way and java code executes quite fast these days.

That shit gets posted every year, but Java still sucks.

Yes, I have used it, and am still using it because some projects require it. Please stop spouting this nonsense.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you try turning it off and on again?

----

Defend your DCPU-16 with complete security solutions from Psymantec!

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[DurendalMac]

Um, no MInecraft does not run just fine. I find it funny that you mention redstone. Try using a fairly complex redstone mechanism. Maybe put a dozen lamps on it. Watch everything grind to a stuttering crawl...on an i7 2600k. The new chunk loading system often will load chunks in the distance, but you have to practically step into a nearby chunk for it to load, which seriously ruins actually being able to see the cool stuff people have built until you run face-first into it. The new lighting engine is much buggier than the old one, often not lighting areas that are plainly visible until you stand in them, and even then it may not. How this sort of thing even gets into the final product is beyond me. Why does Mojang get a pass when anyone else would be nailed to the wall for this crap? No real evidence? Are you kidding me?

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Minecraft does not run just fine. It's not purely Java's fault, but it does not run fine.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Minecraft really runs like crap, especially if you do a lot of redstone.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[DurendalMac]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the nether has been a horrid stutterfest since the 1.2 update. Anytime a chunk is loading it grinds to an utter crawl. The nether has been unplayable. How in the hell are you excusing that??

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[SirFatty]

Up to this point I wasn't sure if you were serious or trolling. "Minecraft runs fine....", yup definitely a troll.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Narishma]

The thing has 128KB of RAM, not 512 bits...

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[phantomfive]

You wouldn't play it if it were written in C? Or Perl?

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[wmbetts]

Probably not if it was wrote in C, because more than likely they wouldn't have a native client for my OS. You have to screw up pretty bad to make Java non-portable so I'm guessing it'll work fine. For years I ran Linux and duel booted Windows to play WoW (wine sucks horribly for WoW) and when it came time to buy a new computer I opted for a Mac. I get a real Unix OS and that ability to finally ditch Windows for good.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you should get your computer fixed, no offense intended.

I have a fully functional 32 bit computer inside my 64 bit amd 2.6ghz, 2gb ram (crappy crappy computer to this date)... And it does in fact, run just fine. It is 30 chunks square (480 x 480 block columns) and 100 blocks in height. Each operation takes 10 seconds, pretty fast if you take into account that the keyboard is ascii and the output is a piston screen, not just binary twos complement numbers represented by torches... and i have no problem with chunks not loading. And i run minecraft in win xp xD

Yeah, there is something wrong with minecraft, but its not redstone or chunks... Its JVM, but in most of the cases you wont even notice it.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[AlamedaStone]

+5 funny, but actually true. It's mindboggling to think that the guy who ripped off a vastly superior game in what looks like some Kindergarten-level JavaBabble made such an enormous amount of money. I just don't understand how the world works sometimes.

People like things that you don't like?!

Idiots!

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[dzfoo]

I have a suspicion that people who tend to defend Java do so because it's the only language they know to some greater extent; they learned it in college and got stuck to it.

Oh, and because instruction in the language probably came with unqualified aspersions against other, more mature languages; like "C is eveeeel because it has pointers!," and "C++ is a rat's nest, stay away from it!"

        dZ.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Raenex]

Please stop spouting this nonsense.

Post some evidence instead of "Java still sucks". There's plenty of evidence for performance improvements in Java (yes, it's a Wikipedia link, and yes, it has references).

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Raenex]

Maybe they defend Java because it has benefits over other languages and the performance aspersions cast against Java were last true in the 1990s.

I learned and used lots of languages before Java, including C and C++. Those latter languages force you to spend a lot of time dealing with low-level issues, are in general dangerous, and yes, C++ is a rat's nest -- even most C++ programmers will admit this.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[aaron552]

Indeed. It's 1MB of RAM, in fact.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[aaron552]

Actually, it's 1MB

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[noodler]

"Why the Java hate?"

Because running a Java app always reminds me that a similar program woud run just as well on a 5 year older computer when written in a native language?
I sometimes do things in Java , but there is always this nagging feeling in the back of my head that i'm somehow wasting a lot of energy and resources when running the code.
I will propably live in this limbo untill Java cpu's are common.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[FairAndHateful]

If the specification is lying, I apologize. Or you're a very subtle troll. But one fact remains.

Repeating something that is not true does not magically make it true.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[stderr_dk]

Indeed. It's 1MB of RAM, in fact.

Actually, it's 1Mb.

65536 * 16 bits = 1Mbit = 128KByte

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Lanteran]

He released the specs early- there's already a C compiler available, among other languages.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[justthinkit]

When sitting at the opening Minecraft menu, all cpu cores are running at close to 100%. Doing nothing. At a static menu.
.

Thanks, Java. Thanks for nothing.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[DurendalMac]

It's not my computer. I've seen this MANY times on MANY computers. If you're running it locally then that may be a different story, but even with a very fast server with gobs of RAM and a very fast pipe...you still see these issues.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I took a glance at Minecraft's code, I saw a goto statement.

That told me enough.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[BlueRaja]

My OS class in college has us write the OS on top of a virtual MIPS PC written in Java. It ran just fine.

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Thuktun]

why not? i'd be willing to bet other people will fill the gap pretty quickly. someone will make gcc support this within a few more weeks.

I present to you a Slashdot haiku:

Came here to say that
As normal, beaten to it
Feel validated

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Anonymous Coward]

For years I ran Linux and duel booted Windows

Freudian slip?

Re:Not Java. Please not Java.

[Hentes]

But if he uses Java anyway, why not utilise the JVM itself as a virtual machine? It has far more features than this 16bit minimalistic thing, and after decades of optimisation it has become reasonably fast, at least much faster than any emulator he will come up with.

16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[dmomo]

Bit-coin fortune, here I come.

Re:16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[jandrese]

The in-game CPU runs at 100khz and has fairly primitive support for words larger than 16 bits. I'm guessing it will take an impressively long time to generate a single Bitcoin.

Re:16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[Surt]

It also has less than 512 bits of memory, and therefore can't store even a single bitcoin hash.

Re:16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[Anonymous Coward]

It also has less than 512 bits of memory, and therefore can't store even a single bitcoin hash.

Not sure how this got marked informative when it's so wrong.

Re:16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[BenoitRen]

As already said in this comment, it has 0x10000 16 bit words as memory.

Re:16 bit processing while i'm off line?

[skywire]

You're new around here, aintcha?

the ingame-CPU is quite interesting

[lixlpixel]

there's already a lot done,

see reddit.com/r/dcpu16/ for the first reactions...

and the first questions on stackoverflow are already coming in - stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/dcpu-16

Re:the ingame-CPU is quite interesting

[loufoque]

How is it interesting?
A student that has taken an architecture class could have easily come up with a better instruction set and architecture.

Re:the ingame-CPU is quite interesting

[SomePgmr]

I'd say it's interesting because I haven't seen it done like this before, inside an online game.

Re:the ingame-CPU is quite interesting

[loufoque]

It hasn't been done yet, this is merely a project idea.
It is likely it won't do half of what he'd like to do.

Re:the ingame-CPU is quite interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems this part is done already. See above.

Frost prist!

[LanMan04]

nt

so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Anonymous Coward]

so what? what's special about this vs a hundred other '80s/'90s cpu emulators?

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[kaellinn18]

The difference is that you can program this CPU to control your ship and its various systems.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Sperbels]

so what? what's special about this vs a hundred other '80s/'90s cpu emulators?

Because if you read the article, you would have found out that you can use it to control your ship, or infect other people's computers with viruses. That sounds ridiculously fun for a space nerd programmer like myself.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

How many of those are embedded in a video game and who's programming may aide or hinder your progress in the game?

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Megane]

What's special is that NOTCH INVENTED IT DO NOT STEAL!

Seriously, why do we need people inventing random CPU architectures for insufficiently good reason? If he used an existing architecture (which I'm sure I would have heard by now if he had) or existing language (like Lua), then well, maybe, but just because Minecraft gets a few nutters who make whole computers out of redstone Rube Goldberg parts doesn't mean there's a general call for this.

inb4 server meltdowns from having to emulate people's badly written notchcode.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Sperbels]

just because Minecraft gets a few nutters who make whole computers out of redstone Rube Goldberg parts doesn't mean there's a general call for this.

True. I'm sure the game will be playable by non-programmers too if that's what you're getting at.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's a game with in-game scripting? Except instead of coming with a language compiled to an efficient p-code VM, for some needless reason there is no high-level language and we have to write directly for an invented 16-bit CPU?

Is there something clever going on here, like in Core Wars where everything is played within the simulated computer?

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Sperbels]

Point taken. But perhaps you'll be able to take advantage of flaws in the compilers people write...such as buffer overflows.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, Notch originally wrote a 6502 emulator.

Re:so, err, a 16 bit cpu emulator?

[Megane]

That is not what I'm getting at. I'm getting at that he decided to come up with something random, rather than at least trying to do something resembling something that previously existed. The people creating enormous redstone automata are doing it specifically because it wasn't meant to be abused to that scale, just like people who write programs in Brainfuck. And assembly language? That's fun for a while, but then it just becomes tedious.

I used to love writing me some 68K assembly language back in the day, then I got tired of writing 4-8 lines of code for the equivalent of one C statement, which is also harder to read than the C statement. And that was with a relatively well-designed instruction set.

Programmability

[Sperbels]

I'm surprised we haven't seem more of this already. I guess the success of WoW has really dumbed down the MMO scene. Back in the day I played around with writing a BBS door game like Trade Wars 2002, but the behavior of your deployed fighters could be scripted and they could perform actions while you were offline. 0x010c looks awesome. We need more games like this.

Re:Programmability

[Anonymous Coward]

Well in most games, botting is a violation of the ToS. In this one, botting is *part* of the game.

Re:Programmability

[Anonymous Coward]

A bbs door game like you describe already exists (existed?)

Galwars.

And it put tradewars to shame. Tradewars was the dumbed down aol cousin to galwars.
Which was huge, complex, and completely unpopular due to being huge and complex.

From items to options it had it all. I seem to recall options to allow your fighters to patrol while you were offline. With options of what to do 'IF'.

Sure miss bbses.

But anyway. Back on point. The world does not embrace complex games. I think the only two profitable exceptions we've had in the last couple decades have been second life and the space game that keeps showing up here that i never remember the name of...

Everything else has been pretty much lowest common denominator games. for proof theres farmville, pvz, angry birds, wow.... lol

Re:Programmability

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't play WoW, but I occasionally talk to people who do. I gather there is a fairly active Lua scripting community for WoW addons... but addons are not allowed to play the game for you (a non-trivial restriction, but basically there's a set of actions that the addon can't do without the user pressing a key or clicking a button).

Re:Programmability

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, put that same CPU in an AI tank battle game like.. I believe it was OGRE back in the day? That'd be fun. :)

Re:Programmability

[Sperbels]

Your thinking of EVE online.

I suppose you're right that there's not much of a market for complex games like this. But if the average player didn't have to deal with writing any code then it could work. The code guys might be the equivalent of the game's crafters, and people buy (using ingame currency) software from them.

Re:Programmability

[Kestrell69]

Yes, it was OGRE, however it was originally known as TANC and could be played on the PC, MAC, Amiga and C64. Code could be shared unchanged amongst the platforms, and it really was groundbreaking in many ways.

Re:Programmability

[Rich0]

Hmm - when I was a kid I thought Omega was fun. Never heard of OGRE. Omega featured the ability to have tanks communicate as a team, though some of the instructions were buggy and I remember having to code workarounds (acknowledging a communication didn't work, so when a tank got a message it asked another tank to send it what was essentially an NOP signal). Tanks had sensors, weapons, movement, etc.

Re:Programmability

[AlamedaStone]

Your thinking of EVE online.

I suppose you're right that there's not much of a market for complex games like this. But if the average player didn't have to deal with writing any code then it could work. The code guys might be the equivalent of the game's crafters, and people buy (using ingame currency) software from them.

Information wants to be free. Which leads us inexorably to the conclusion that the game will be filled with pirates.

SPACE pirates! Or the more culturally sensitive term, "atmospherically challenged infringers" perhaps.

Damnit, I want to play this game now.

0x10^c not 0x10C

[Anonymous Coward]

On the site it's 0x10 (16) raised to the power of c. That's not meaningful here but since it's in a parallel sci-fi universe all bets are off.

I was kinda wondering how 0x10C (268) could have any meaning. 0x10^c makes a lot more sense for something sci-fi.

Re:0x10^c not 0x10C

[trout007]

C is the hex value for 12 not speed of light c

Re:0x10^c not 0x10C

[Anonymous Coward]

C is the hex value for 12 not speed of light c

True, but it makes more sense in the concept of the game if C is the speed of light. Specifically, it describes that the craft has a 16 bit onboard computer, which works pretty well with 0x10 being both 16 bits as well as decimal 16. Decimal 268 makes no freaking sense here. If you'd like to argue that it's a cheesy name for something sure, you might be right. Putting "to the power of... the speed of light!" in the title feels a lot like how my antiperspirant has somehow become "extreme" in the last few years... That said, it looks more like multiplied by the speed of light instead of to the power of. No matter, the speed of light is extreme!

Re:0x10^c not 0x10C

[canajin56]

It's about an endian mixup so that instead of being frozen for 0000 0000 0000 0001 years, you were frozen for 0001 0000 0000 0000 years. That is,16^12, which is also 0x10^0xc.

Re:0x10^c not 0x10C

[RavenLrD20k]

Maybe it's just supposed to mean HexTenC or HexTaC. Some sort of play on words for Extacy?

Actually, 0x10^C

[Anonymous Coward]

Took me a few minutes to figure out, but the title is actually 0x10^C, which is 16^12 in decimal, which is 281,474,976,712,644, which is the year the game is set. Clever!

Re:Actually, 0x10^C

[Rotag_FU]

Took me a few minutes to figure out, but the title is actually 0x10^C, which is 16^12 in decimal, which is 281,474,976,712,644, which is the year the game is set. Clever!

Well if you want to get ever more precise and pedantic. 16^12 is actually 281,474,976,710,656 not 281,474,976,712,644. While it is true that the game is set in the year 281,474,976,712,644, the way that number is arrived at is by adding 1988 to 281,474,976,710,656 to get 281,474,976,712,644. The concept is that in 1988 the cryo units for travel were accidentally set for 281,474,976,710,656 years due to an endian mistake.

Re:Actually, 0x10^C

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, in scientific notation it's "Nothing to C"

Re:Actually, 0x10^C

[Chris Burke]

The concept is that in 1988 the cryo units for travel were accidentally set for 281,474,976,710,656 years due to an endian mistake.

What I find amazing is not that such a simple mistake could be made, but that the cryo machines and the 16-bit computers running them were able to run for over 10^15 years!

Fucking nice job on the hardware, guys! But next time don't leave the drivers for the interns to write...

GCC cross-compiler?

[Max Threshold]

How long before GCC can target the DCPU-16?

Re:GCC cross-compiler?

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget gcc, I want to see it implemented in redstone.

It's like a PDP-11

[Animats]

It's very similar to the basic models of the PDP-11. 64K of 16 bit words, two-address instructions, operands can be registers or memory. It should be possible to modify a PDP-11 C compiler to compile for the thing.

No indication of how I/O works, or if there are timers or interrupts. If you're supposed to control a spaceship with this, they're going to need those. PDP-11 I/O was done by putting devices on the same bus as memory, and storing into their device registers. But the spec here says that you have 64K words of memory; no portion of the address space is reserved for I/O. So they may use the unassigned opcodes for I/O.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Surt]

Where did you get the 64k? The spec says:
* 16 bit unsigned words
* 0x10000 words of ram
* 8 registers (A, B, C, X, Y, Z, I, J)
* program counter (PC)
* stack pointer (SP)
* overflow (O)

That's 32 words, or 64 bytes, not kbytes.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[loufoque]

No interrupts nor timers, memory-mapped I/O.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, 0x10000 is hex, not bits, so that means 65536 words

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

0x10000 = 65536

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Seekerofknowledge]

?

0x implies hexadecimal, not binary. 0x10000 = 65536 words = 128KB of memory.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[lederhosen]

it is hexadecimal, not binary

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

0x10000 words = 64k

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, binary 10000 is decimal 16, not 32. So even if you were right, you were wrong.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did you get the 64k?

64k is enough for anyone. Even 281 trillion years in the future.

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[Anonymous Coward]

Polling? Okay, not great in a space ship, but I'm sure this game is going to go at the speed of slow, so whatever. No timers? These things are going to have to be running continuously and timed manually then, right? Aside from being more of a pain to program, isn't that more server drain?

Re:It's like a PDP-11

[scdeimos]

There'll probably be timers in hardware, but without interrupts you'll have to poll them.

Prediction: It will be awesome, or it will suck.

[SuricouRaven]

With a concept like this, there is no middle ground. It'll either be incredibly great, or painfully bad. No possibility in between.

Re:Prediction: It will be awesome, or it will suck

[fastest fascist]

I think there's a big middle ground: Incredibly great, but only if you're in the small niche it appeals to.

Security?

[ktappe]

How long until there's a virus that starts crashing players' ships?

Re:Security?

[blattin]

"The possibilities of this CPU and generator are... Fascinating. For instance, users players (see, lines are already blurring) can exchange programs, so you can expect a lively scene of people exchanging programs. There's a nefarious side to this as well - Notch will not stop anyone from making viruses, so even computer security becomes an element of play. A virus could, for instance, disable a ship's weaponry or shields. " From: http://www.osnews.com/story/25765/Notch_unveils_0x10c_space_sim_with_custom_virtual_processors

Re:Security?

[Sperbels]

Mister Saavik, punch up the data charts of Reliant's command console.

Re:Security?

[Anonymous Coward]

botnet

Re:Prediction: It will be awesome, or it will suck

[SuricouRaven]

I thought that was a given. If you're not in the niche, it doesn't even make it to suck. It's be incomprehenseable, and unplayable.

how about curing cancer first? get some priorities

[Thud457]

and the first questions on stackoverflow are already coming in - stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/dcpu-16

O_o
mfw those weren't all posted 4/1.

but...

[Anonymous Coward]

does it run linux?

Re:but...

[Electricity Likes Me]

Given the recent Slashdot article where someone booted Ubuntu on an 8-bit chip...I suspect it will.

Re:but...

[Lanteran]

It'd be tricky, but I think a linux-like OS could be ported.

Spec file can't be distributed / Notch is a bully

[Anonymous Coward]

Notch likes to threaten people with lawyers

  http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/p7jbz/about_the_survival_guide/ so I would be careful with the spec file since it isn't under a license which allows redistribution.

While this should not stop anyone from being able to use the file it is currently impossible for anyone other then Notch to distribute the spec file.

Why not just create a scripting language?

[default luser]

In the end this is all you're going to use your emulated CPU for - scripting events. And while people will argue until their throat hurts that scripting is so much more limited than a real CPU, please remember one crucial fact: this IS NOT a real CPU.

This is a simulated CPU crafted by the game designer, and any use you get out of this CPU will be limited by (1) the architecture/memory and (2) the I/O provided to interface with various aspects of the game.

Why not just use a scripting language with defined interfaces and put a limit on the maximum program length (to simulate the intended limitations of the 64k ram, etc)? There's no reason you can't design-in similar limitation to keep players on their toes. You will also entice an entirely new set of players into the game who can comprehend how a simple script works, but stare glass-eyed at you when you mention non-maskable interrupts or twos-complement arithmetic.

Besides, everyone knows that some community member(s) will release a high-level language and compiler (of questionable quality and support) as soon as the game is launched, so why bother making this pretty CPU emulator if few players will ever see? I say the creator should just save himself the trouble of player backlash about a crappy community-supported IDE that he can't fix, and just do it himself.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[IICV]

Because that doesn't fit with the plot or mechanics of the game?

The plot is that the space race never ended, so in 1980ish we had ships equipped with 16 bit computers and cold sleep chambders. An endianness bug caused people who wanted to sleep for 1 year to sleep for 0x10^C years (which is where the name comes from), so now you all have to rebuild stuff.

The mechanics inolve writing programs that will be run offline; your computer in-game will execute a particular number of cycles per second. With a low level assembly language, Notch can (and does) define precisely how many cycles each instruction takes. How would you do that for a scripting language with API hooks? It would end up being ridiculously complicated.Doing it in assembly like his lets people hand-optimize their stuff a lot easier, especially when (as you say) the high-level languages will be quickly available anyway.

Basically, doing it your way would be fairly blah.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[default luser]

Sorry, I just don't buy that a significant percentage of players will have the patience to hand-optimize assembler. And an event-based scripting language could certainly handle situations where you want the ship to do X at time Y with circumstances Z.

Anyway, the high-level OSes and scripting languages will be born, but they won't get much further. A high percentage of Open Source projects are abandoned before maturity, and I can imagine that people will abandon this thing in droves once they figure out how much it feels like work.

Sitting through countless meetings about IDDs and requirements, players will quickly realize how stupid this is when they're paying a monthly fee to play a "game" that isn't really a game.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Anonymous Coward]

Notch has suggested that the computer hopefully won't be so important that players can't ignore it, at least in the sense of loading someone else's programming/OS and just using that without ever writing any code. But you're right. It is possible that done poorly, it could ruin the game. And given Minecraft, I suspect Notch is interesting in making games for players that like to tinker.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Issarlk]

because it's cool!

Why do people build redstone circuits in Minecraft when there's a mod that allow to write scripts in a little computer block?
Because they have fun.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sorry, I just don't buy that a significant percentage of players will have the patience to hand-optimize assembler."

Right.... No one ever packaged an OS you could run on your computer to post on slashdot. You just had to bang out the assembler for a TCP connection and HTTP to post that. No other way of making the job easier through prepackaging will work here.

Sorry, I just don't buy that a significant percentage of *computer users* will have the patience to hand-optimize assembler.

Now that tweak makes your sentence more easily understood. Now the bullshit just sticks right out since people obviously are flocking towards computing despite lacking all these mentioned skills.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you know so much more about creating a successful game than Notch, right?

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sitting through countless meetings about IDDs and requirements, players will quickly realize how stupid this is when they're paying a monthly fee to play a "game" that isn't really a game.

Wait, what?!

This is a game, not JSF coding. If there's a bug in someone's code, NOTHING HAPPENS. So why not do it quick, dirty, and fun?

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Reapy]

I always read people complaining endlessly about not enough difficulty or complexity in games. Here you go, here is a fucking 16 big cpu, write assembly to run your ship. Then every one gets pissed off.... Make up your minds. A "real" cpu in the ship is geeky and fascinating, a made up scripting language is a made up scripting language. He could also let you run ship systems by pushing keys on your keyboard, but that layer of difficulty in doing things is supposed to be the whole point of the game.

I remember getting to know IL-2, the WW2 plane simulator. There was so much to learn about flight and the forces on the ship before you could get it up in the air, then turn it around and land it, then complete a few maneuvers and navigate somewhere, then finally you could actually start to learn combat maneuvers, finally culminating in actually shooting something down.

I thought that, wow, you know what would be cool, a made up space ship simulator. The same kind of idea of things you have to learn to get your ship going, but made up interesting mechanics. Here is a crack at that, and I think it will be neat.

The real thing that is going to make this CPU interesting or not is if the game surrounding it is interesting, and he hasn't really said enough to prove that. Minecraft had potential but I don't like ultimately where it landed, so with this game I am pretty hesitant to say it will be worth learning the CPU, but if the game around it works out, the cpu will be a pretty badass idea.

Really am surprised so many 'geeks' here get all up in arms about having a virtual environment to play around with that simulates a 16 bit cpu. Pretty sad actually.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[flowwolf]

Notch already has a BASIC interpreter running on the DCPU. I imagine still that many people will write their programs using assembly. Just look at the redstone crowd for Minecraft. Dont underestimate how much these people love to make it hard on themselves.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Anonymous Coward]

-1, Unromantic

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[firewrought]

Really am surprised so many 'geeks' here get all up in arms about having a virtual environment to play around with that simulates a 16 bit cpu. Pretty sad actually.

You missed default luser's argument... that providing players with a 16-bit CPU seems like a poor design choice because you could give them a higher-level scripting language that puts them closer to accomplishing in-game goals while simultaneously broadening the audience for the game and letting everyone avoid the headaches of a community-supported IDE. To say he was "up in arms" is to miss the substance of his argument.

Re:Why not just create a scripting language?

[Reapy]

I think using a higher level scripting language doesnt have the same potential that allowing raw access to a cpu in your ship does. As for alienating people or relying on an IDE, much is left to be seen. I would not be surprised if there is a default 'os' or scripting language that will be a part of the ship, so maybe the best of both worlds there.

But having the virtual PC lets there be a community IDE or individual ones, or pretty much whatever it'll let you get away with, which is the interesting part. All in all I think it is a pretty cool concept, and I don't think it would work right if you abstract it to writing "if( shield_levels 75 ) turn_up_shield_power();" things.

One version feels like you are way back in the early days of computers, the other feels like you are setting up dragon age or final fantasy 12 companion behaviors.

Either way it is all for naught if the game surrounding it doesnt kick ass.

My plans and why I am excited for 0x10c

[Frac O Mac]

I made an post on reddit detailing the swarm that I hope to make. Slashdot seems like a better place to get feedback from though, so please feel free to tear apart my plan!

Just started on it.

[pushing-robot]

I'm writing a really useful navigation package for players' ships.

Re:Just started on it.

[Thuktun]

It would not surprise me if competing computer-based attacks and defenses ended up being part of the game, whether planned or not.

You keep using that number...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did you get "less than 512 bits"? The linked description has 64k of 16bit words. 128KB.

I was hoping for a HP 48

[trout007]

Oh well.

Did Bioware Know it Was a Joke?

[Greyfox]

They probably already have the C&D letters printed (And maybe sent.)

I'm looking forward to punching trees to get the wood for my first spaceship :-P

Is this post about a recent C++ standard ?

[eminencja]

Will it support lambdas, auto, and initializer lists?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Yes but...

[Anonymous Coward]

...could a Beowulf cluster of DCPU-16s run Linux?