MythTV 0.25 Released, New HW Acceleration and Audio Standards Support

unts writes "The highly configurable Linux PVR, MythTV, has reached the 0.25 release, over 500 days after the previous full release. New features include VAAPI support, E-AC3, TrueHD, and DTS-HD audio, the ability to control other home entertainment devices via HDMI CEC and additions to the API to allow HTTP live streaming. The release notes for 0.25 don't reflect the release status at the time of writing, but should contain most of the relevant changes. MythTV can be used as a backend (recorder) and frontend (viewer), but can also feed other frontends such as appropriate versions of XBMC. Hopefully the new HTTP streaming API will lead to even more ways to get your video fix."

Comments

User Guide anyone?

[Pieroxy]

I think MythTV is in dire need of a more polished and coherent UI. And a comprehensive user and installation guide.

New tech feats are ok, but they'll probably make the whole thing even less useable.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[i.r.id10t]

And a comprehensive user and installation guide.

Thats my biggest issue with F/OSS - poor or missing or flat out wrong and outdated documentation...

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's one of the things I love about OpenBSD. They classify missing documentation on any feature as a bug.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[crazyjj]

Too many in the FOSS community think the programmers are all you need to make decent software. So they take a "Who needs UI designers and technical writers?" approach that leaves the software produced sorely lacking in the kind of polish that people are willing to spend money for with commercial software.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jdastrup]

I've never seen that, and I've set up dozens of MythTV systems over the years for myself, family and friends, and used different hardware, althouth I usually try to stick to the "known to work" category

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cayenne8]

I actually LOVED MythTV...back when I was watching HD over the air, in combination with getting free analog cable tv from my cable internet connection....there were also some HD (local stuff) on that unfiltered cable feed.

However, I've moved about in recent years, and at the current new place, can't find the filter to remove for that cable internet connection. And now set up with UVerse, I wanted lots of HD content for new big plasma tv.

I wish there was a way to integrate MythTV with Uverse....but until I can find a way to do that, Myth is not something I mess with any longer.

I did prefer it...great for setting recording filters and keywords, etc. Much better than any DVR that comes with cable or uverse or satellite.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jellomizer]

And really scary version numbers.
I see a 0.25 version number. I am like this isn't a full featured project. Then I have to step back and go. Well it is open source. They hate giving it a version 1.0 label until they get everything they wanted done.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Mojo66]

I think MythTV is in dire need of a more polished and coherent UI. And a comprehensive user and installation guide.

New tech feats are ok, but they'll probably make the whole thing even less useable.

I'm still on 0.23 for exactly that reason. It took me ages to set it up properly and now I hesitate to upgrade.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Moryath]

In a nutshell.

The larger picture is, the programmers often ACTIVELY reject offers of critical help on interface design and usability, not to mention requests to streamline the installation of basic hardware such as remote controls. For instance, the Mythbuntu page for using ATi Remote Wonder remotes, which were immensely popular and are still readily available in retail packaged alone or with ATi's capture boards including the All-In-Wonder HD line. Setup for these things is a nightmare - command line garbage, edit this or that file, go see "this other page" to find out how to get all the buttons working.

Would it REALLY be hard to set up a script that could enable the necessary settings? Of course not, they've done it for a number of the other remotes by outfites like Hauppauge. But because scripting that isn't "sexy" and some of the programmers are still acting all butthurt about ATi not having open drivers before AMD bought them out, none of the MythTV or Mythbuntu team want to get off their ass and integrate such a script into the main trunk even if someone from the outside submitted it.

It's shit like this that hinders F/OSS adoption by the larger population.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish there was a way to integrate MythTV with Uverse....but until I can find a way to do that, Myth is not something I mess with any longer.

Try sickbeard. It isn't quite what you want, but it will integrate very well with the internet part of Uverse...

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are several distros out there that to all this for you. My favorite is Mythbuntu (www.mythbuntu.org) which is based on a scaled down version of Ubuntu. You can either install the packages into an existing Ubuntu install, or install from scratch and have only what is needed for the system to function. Installation and configuration of both server and client is easy this way...

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jmorris42]

Actually I sometimes see that problem as well. I have a PVR-350 although I no longer use the output port on it. If two programs are recorded back to back on different channels there is a small chance mythbackend will die and the second program will not record and nothing else will until I notice it and restart the backend.

I'm not super worried because I'm already saving my pennies for a Prime, especially with a new version out and hopefully simplifying setting one of them up to use all three tuners.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[tlhIngan]

Too many in the FOSS community think the programmers are all you need to make decent software. So they take a "Who needs UI designers and technical writers?" approach that leaves the software produced sorely lacking in the kind of polish that people are willing to spend money for with commercial software.

Exactly. Then again, given the derision towards companies that repackage technology (e.g., Apple) into more user-friendly form...

I mean, Apple's big points on marketing, but they score a pile on usability. With Jobs it was easy - he'd scream his head off if something was just a little bit off.

Then again, maybe it's just derision when we see our computers and other gadgets being used and enjoyed by the hoi polloi and realize that computer operation isn't as elite as it used to be even just 30 years ago. Especially since everyone needs to use a computer to do anything it seems.

Or maybe it's just human nature- I suppose the mechanics have similar "cupholder" stories to tell about people who use their cars as mere transportation rather than moving works of art they should be priviledged to touch?

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cpu6502]

I enjoy writing documentation..... but only if I'm getting paid. I listen to audiobooks or talkradio while I'm writing. But since documenting OSS doesn't pay, I'm not doing it. (shrug)

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Moryath]

I don't know about cupholders, but I remember one of the trophy-wife types who was somehow working her way through an MBA (probably on her knees) when I was going through undergrad.

Come out to the parking lot, she's screaming at the BMW that had been her birthday gift from her sugar-daddy/husband a bit over a year ago, kicking the tire with her way-too-high heels, cussing up a storm because it makes a grinding noise and won't turn over to start. Tow truck shows up, guy asks her when her last oil change was.

Response of girl with more tit-silicone mass than brain mass: "you have to change the oil? Nobody told me that!"

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jedidiah]

> I wish there was a way to integrate MythTV with Uverse....but until I can find a way to do that

Use the old style S1 Tivo approach. People used PVRs with digital cable long before digital tuners of any sort came out.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cpu6502]

Over-the-air is the way to go (it's free). But some people live in poor areas and have to use satellite. Can the MythTV replace Dish's $7/month DVR (what an insane price; the whole thing only costs $150 if purchased outright).

Re:User Guide anyone?

[colinnwn]

There is a way, though it is expensive and inconvenient. It involves using a Hauppauge HD-PVR and the IR blaster with your Uverse box. http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cayenne8]

Over-the-air is the way to go (it's free).

Well, sadly...I can't get most of the channels I watch in HD over the air.

I can't get:

FoodTV

Cooking Channel

Discovery Channels (multiple ones)

History Channels

CNN

Fox News

MSNBC

(yes, I like to see varied points of view)

Velocity Channel......etc. I think you can see where I'm going here.

I very seldom watch the big 3 network channels. I pretty much only watch the Big Bang Theory, and that's really it except for my local news. But OTA only offers 5-6 channels tops...and they're not putting out the HD content I watch 99% of the time.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[omnichad]

They finally have the structure in place for a decent UI (as of 0.24, actually). Unfortunately, there aren't any great designers working on themes. A lot of designers who make pretty pictures, but know nothing of how to make things for people who are using the TV from 10 feet away with a remote.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Orphaze]

I'm in the same boat, having Comcast with a number of HD channels that I like to record and watch. For some lucky few, such channels are available via firewire, unencrypted out of the cable box. I am not so lucky.

To remedy this, I have a Hauppuage HD-PVR. It is basically a $150 component + digital audio to h264 hardware encoder. Myth uses it combined with firewire channel changing (ir blasting works just fine though) to record all of my premium channels. The decrease in quality is barely perceptible even on our large set, and it is a small price to pay for such a great system.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[bmxeroh]

I'm with you on the installation guide. I have yet to complete a MythTV setup I started messing with forever ago. Admittedly I haven't messed with it much, but I went in to it thinking that I could have some basic functionality done in an hour or two. Definitely not the case.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jedidiah]

My distribution handles all of my IR remote issues automagically. This is as it should be because it really has nothing to do with MythTV. It's a basic OS level hardware support issue.

Your own description of the situation seems to highlight why a lot of people still have a considerable amount of "skepticism" when it comes to ATI.

ATI has been a "vendor best avoided" since the bt879 days.

Even on Windows it helps to ask the community for recommendations and actually listen to them.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Dr_Barnowl]

I've been using it since 0.17 and it's been "fully functional" as far as I care since then.

I don't think it's ever going to penetrate the commercial space now ; digital TV has made it much easier to make products with PVR features and you can get devices that are basically an HDMI dongle with an SD card slot that perform the significant function (stream recording and playback), you have the likes of Ubuntu TV and the built in OS that most digital TVs seem to have these days.

I cut my teeth on Linux with MythTV though - at the time, I had to use Gentoo to get the bleeding edge kernel support for my DVB hardware. I learned a lot. I'd guess it's still a reasonable way to learn something about Linux, even if it's much easier than it used to be. Which is another way of saying it's a hobbyists project.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jedidiah]

Anything not involving a tuner should be trivial and accomplished with little more than an invocation of "apt-get".

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Moryath]

See, this is precisely the standard shitty linux user attitude that causes problems.

The ATi stuff I have, I've had for years. Under a Windows install, it worked great - STILL DOES in fact. F/OSS evangelists in my area are always trying to get me to "switch over" to a MythTV / Mythbuntu-based system, which I've tried a few times (no harm to slap in an alternate hard drive and test the build for the sake of testing).

You didn't even look at the wiki page I pointed to, to see all the different sets of instructions for multiple different distributions and specific issues on each. You just went straight into your bullshit about ATi being "a vendor best avoided since the bt879 days" which is twofold stupid considering (a) all you're doing is trash-talking and (b) I wasn't even talking about capture cards, I was talking about remotes, which operate completely independent of the capture hardware.

Your own description of the situation seems to highlight why a lot of people still have a considerable amount of "skepticism" when it comes to ATI. ATI has been a "vendor best avoided" since the bt879 days.

And your attitude shows why anyone who already owns ATi equipment is going to say Fuck You in return and go about their business, most of them never to try F/OSS alternatives again since you are acting like a bunch of stuck up pricks poo-pooing existing and widely used hardware.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[csubi]

I don't think that many F/OSS projects lack documentation. Having said this, MythTV is definitely not a good example; the documentation and installation is a nightmare IMO.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cluedweasel]

It's a security feature, surely?

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cpu6502]

I was flipping through those channels over the weekend, while sitting in my hotel.

Basically there was nothing worth watching, which is why I don't send comcast $1000/year. Besides there are a lot of over-the-air equivalents to Discovery (PBS), TVland (Retro/antennaTV), TNT/AMC (thisTV/other movie channels), 24 hour news (france24, RT, BBC, and the daily FOX,NBC,CBS,ABC news), and so on.

The only thing I want but can't get is Syfy's various shows, but Hulu fills-in that gap. Overall I don't miss the cable one bit. OTA + internet is good enough and cheap ($15/month).

Re:User Guide anyone?

[dougisfunny]

Maybe the silicondust hdhomerun prime? it is a cable card tuner, allowing more HD to be recorded if the provider uses cable cards.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[antdude]

Some of us want to watch The Walking Dead, MythBusters, South Park, etc. legally and can't be watched OTA. :P

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Golddess]

Can't help ya with the first two, but here ya go. Kind of odd though. New episodes go up like a day after they air on Comedy Central, then after a couple of days, are pulled, before going back up weeks later. But as a bonus, it's uncensored.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[mrchaotica]

Not sure about Discovery networks, but Food/Cooking/HGTV/DIY tend to have full episodes available to stream online these days.

I've got satellite right now too, but I'm hoping to drop it in favor of streaming. I also ran across a device -- I can't remember what it's called right now, but I think it starts with a "C" -- that's supposed to provide an easy-to-use TV interface for all those sorts of things (along with Hulu, Netflix, etc).

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Ihmhi]

I think ______ is in dire need of a more polished and coherent UI. And a comprehensive user and installation guide.

New tech feats are ok, but they'll probably make the whole thing even less useable.

Insert your favorite FOSS equivalent of a commercial program in the blank, and you now know why it has a hard time taking off and beating the competition.

Usability is severely lacking in a lot of FOSS. Here's an example from my own personal experience. I wanted to outline some text in GIMP. this is what I had to go through. I'll just quote one of the comments from that post that gets the point across best:

Nov 21, 2007, piminger said:
Are you serious? 6 steps to outline text?

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cayenne8]

But, Uverse isn't cable (Cox in my area).

When I moved to the new place..I did a lot of research and out of Cox cable, direct tv, dish tv and Uverse...Uverse won hands down on bang for the buck with most HD channels and DVR service to my rooms.

the hdhomerun prime likely won't work with Uverse, as that it isn't cable and doesn't use cablecard.

:(

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cayenne8]

Not sure about Discovery networks, but Food/Cooking/HGTV/DIY tend to have full episodes available to stream online these days.

Well, do those stream at HD tv quality? 1080p? (I have a Samsung 59" Plasma, I want a quality signal)

If so, I guess I could look into it...but convenience...would have to rig up a comuter again, and put it in the living room hooked to the TV, and I never did figure out how to get that to work with a remote control, was a PITA to have to go over and mess with the keyboard, etc.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jedidiah]

One nice thing about MythTV is that I can do a SQL query to see what we've been watching. I can see what shows have been recorded and which ones have been watched. I can slice it and dice it by channel and series.

With the notable exception of Mythbusters, most of those channels mentioned by the OP seem pretty worthless really.

SciFi isn't what it once was. All of the proper sci-fi seems to be on other channels with very little left on SyFy itself.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[jedidiah]

> See, this is precisely the standard shitty linux user attitude that causes problems.

"Try to use stuff that is known to work" is not a "shitty" response. It is a sane one.

You obviously have no interest in having this work. You just want something to bitch and moan and troll about.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[Pieroxy]

Well, I've worked with countless FOSS programs and I have to say that MythTV gets the palm by about a couple of miles. All FOSS programs I could get something out of in a few minutes / hours of work. MythTV? Completely different league. You need DAYS to get anything working. And that's for a simplistic setup.

Media Portal is also FOSS and it works all by itself.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[soundguy]

Use a couple of USB cables (up to about 16 feet) and a 7-button programmable mouse on the arm of your chair or couch. That will get you most common functions. If the distance is too far for USB, use a USB-over-Cat5 or USB-over-WiFi extender. If you need the keyboard often, plug a wireless keyboard/mouse receiver into the USB extension and keep the keyboard on the end table or coffee table.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[cpu6502]

Those are all on the net (either free, or via netflix). Again: No need for ~$1000 per year cable.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[antdude]

Netflix has the newest episodes online? I thought they were behind.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[chromeronin]

I was a myth fan, but then after setting one up I realized that I hardly ever watched broadcast tv anymore. I've now gone with a much simpler plex configuration. On my Mac I have plex server and eye tv. Anything I want to record I do through eye, which then transcodes and exports automatically, plex indexes it, and my 1TB media store, and the plugins for Vimeo, YouTube and iTunes etc. then I use plex frontend on an old 2008 mini on the 50" plasma tv, my iPhone, my iPad and my wife's android. I'll look at picking up a 7" android tablet for the kids to use. What myth really needed to keep up we're more frontend clients. Current plex server beta also supports DLNA, so as more profiles get developed, more screens will get supported. I've also got a PVR for one off recordings if I need it, but of course nothing recorded on it can be shared.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[hawk]

Gotta love programming so impressive you have to turn around and query to find out what you've bee watching . . . :)

hawk

Re:User Guide anyone?

[colinnwn]

There are scripts to watch the backend and restart it when it died. Knoppmyth had a problem with that (not sure about all distros) about 5 years ago. You might be able to search their forums and use the same scripts.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[TranquilVoid]

I agree. Having just set up a MythTV box on brand new hardware I'm realising that the advantages for the general community are diminishing.

1. Pre-done DVR solutions are much closer in price.

2. Internet-streaming devices are replacing free-to-air TV.

3. Portable, TV-connectable HDD devices are more prominent.

4. To me and my wife, personally, TV is much less important than it was. In its place are downloaded movies and shows that just aren't available on the lowest-common-denominator that is broadcast television. I suspect this is true for the general population, if for different reasons.

For my purposes MythTV is still the best solution and, like you, MythTV was the impetus to learn Linux.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[BLKMGK]

Tivo HD would also solve your issue. KMTTG allows you to pull and decode the video with no problems. So far I've not run into DRM issues.

Re:User Guide anyone?

[BLKMGK]

For DRM channels I believe this only works on Win7 else I'd have one myself :-(

Re:User Guide anyone?

[wagnerrp]

Actually, virtually all Comcast users should be included in that "lucky few". Nearly all your channels should be DRM-free, meaning MythTV can capture them directly, digitally, using a CableCard tuner. The only things that should need analog capture are channels such as HBO or Showtime.

Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they created a netflix plugin yet? If not, then who the hell cares.

Re:Netflix

[TheRaven64]

I think there is one that works on Windows. For other platforms, the setup involves running Windows in VirtualBox or similar. Unfortunately this is a requirement because Netflix streaming uses Silverlight with some DRM that is not compatible with Moonlight, so is only available on Windows. Want to fix it? Write to the movie studios and tell them that this is why they're not getting any of your money.

Re:Netflix

[CODiNE]

Want to fix it? Write to the movie studios and tell them that this is why they're not getting any of your money.

Good luck with that. I'm pretty sure they're trying to kill netflix not get them more subscribers.

Re:Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

I fixed it by just buying a WDTV Live Plus last year and between Netflix and pirated content from Usenet I get everything I need. No need for tuners or cable boxes or complicated setups. Just a Linux backend running Sickbeard + Couch Potato for the Usenet-sourced content and the WDTV Live Plus plays it all and streams Netflix.

Re:Netflix

[Medievalist]

A perfectly good netflix client for linux definitely does exist, because netflix comes standard on android-based googleTV devices. However, netflix is not willing to let the world have the sources, or even unrestricted access to the executables.

The only reason I can think of for this is that the netflix service must have some titanic security flaw that is so deeply embedded in their architecture that it would take absurd amounts of money to fix. You don't give up an income stream for no reason - maybe they're hiding something? I'd love to hear other explanations.

Re:Netflix

[thelexx]

Projected support costs of Linux version vs. Projected revenue from it would be my guess. It's oft-repeated unfortunately.

Re:Netflix

[berashith]

the netflx client also exists for a few select android phones. There must be something in the hardware on some devices that allows netflix to lock something. Maybe it is that my G2 has no video out?

Re:Netflix

[Mojo66]

I'd love to hear other explanations.

Microsoft shoved a lot of money up their asses in order to get a foothold in a market where they don't yet dominate.

Re:Netflix

[KingMotley]

Dear TheRaven64,
We here at the movie studios are writing you back to let you know that we don't agree with your open source stance, and that is why don't get the privilege of viewing our totally awesome content. You can keep your money, and we'll use your illegal downloading of our content to show how we've lost 10 billion trillion million dollars, and use that as a case to filter the internets, get the courts to allow us to rifle through any/all social networks whenever we want, place surveillance cameras in your home, and threaten to sue you until your grandkids go bankrupt.

Thank you,
The Movie Studios

Re:Netflix

[squiggleslash]

This is why it's a good idea for people to write GNU/Linux when they mean "That open source operating system Ubuntu is based upon", even if some people seem to feel like they have to refuse doing so because RMS wants them to, and RMS is a dirty hippy or something. (WTF?)

Basically, it doesn't matter that there's an Android version. The APIs for Android and GNU/Linux are so completely unalike it's probably easier to port the Mac OS X version (if there is one, although I think it's all Silverlight based anyway?) to GNU/Linux than it is the Android version.

Which is not to suggest it's impossible to use the Android version as a base for an unofficial port, but it'd be awkward, and in reality it'd probably be easier to run the Windows client under Wine. And probably more efficient.

Re:Netflix

[jedidiah]

> > who the hell cares.
>
> Everyone who loves commercial auto-skip?

I dumped Netflix streaming as soon as they started charging extra for it. If you already have a good PVR attached to a cable box, the selection of stuff on Netflix is just laughable.

Who the hell cares about Netflix Streaming?

Netflix streaming is lame. All the wishful thinking in the world won't turn it into a triple crown winner.

Re:Netflix

[David Chappell]

Projected support costs of Linux version vs. Projected revenue from it would be my guess. It's oft-repeated unfortunately.

Yes, it is a frequently cited reason, but not necessary the true one. Netflix used to work on Linux (until they switched to Silverlight). The last explanation from a Netflix executives of why they still have not restored Linux support was a long string of technical gibberish which basically boiled down to "because it isn't Windows". It was clear that he had no idea what it would take to get Linux support back.

It is not just Netflix that does this. Estimates of how hard it would be to support Linux often assume a separate from-scratch development effort would be required. Often all that is really needed is to provide what they already have in a slightly different form. Sometimes this just means a new installer. In other cases all that is required is a few web pages. Very often the effort would benefit all of their uses. For example, if Garmin were to provided direct links to firmware files and instructions for copying them to the right place on the GPS, it would save users a lot of trouble when the just-click-this-and-don't-worry-your-pretty-little-head-about-it programs fail.

Re:Netflix

[jedidiah]

When I first started using MythTV, an mp3 streamer would set you back at least $300. Video streamers are so cheap now that the lack of Netflix in MythTV itself is a lot less of a problem.

A cheap Roku could be an MCE extender if not for the DRM nonsense with cable TV these days.

Re:Netflix

[Cajun Hell]

Has Netflix started using standards yet? If not, then who the hell cares.

Re:Netflix

[Jeng]

Probably has more to do with system requirements.

I also have a G2, my wife has a Mytouch 4G slide, also no video out, but it has the Netflix app.

Re:Netflix

[the_Bionic_lemming]

I dumped Netflix streaming as soon as they started charging extra for it. If you already have a good PVR attached to a cable box, the selection of stuff on Netflix is just laughable.

Who the hell cares about Netflix Streaming?

Netflix streaming is lame. All the wishful thinking in the world won't turn it into a triple crown winner.

Actually, for some of us that want to watch TV without commercials, Netflix has been a god send. I have watched thousands of hours of TV shows I missed when I was a kid or young adult and working weird shifts. Mission Impossible, Stargate SG 1, Battlestar Galactica,Top gear, Dr. Whp, Torchwood, MI-5, Magnum PI, Hell even Knight Rider.

You might not watch those shows, but I do, and with the thousands of hours of content available of different shows, I won't be getting satellite or cable anytime soon. You are entitled to your opinion, but 8.99 a month for the amount of content I use is well spent for me.

Re:Netflix

[lgw]

So you sned your cable company $80/month because the $8/month cost of Netflix streaming is just outrageous? One cannont argue against logic like that. I find that Netflix (with some DVDs) is all the TV I need, no need for the cable at all, but to each his own.

What's a "commercial"?

Re:Netflix

[SpzToid]

I watch Netflix, Hulu, etc. on all my Linux devices which means several Ubuntu, including an Asus netbook that I adore, along with my Nokia N900. I won't publish all my tricks regarding the N900 aside from explaining the main one, which is I use PlayonTV UPnP media server, running in a windows virtual machine, which is what the linux UPnP clients access. www.playon.tv Playon keeps adding new channels all the time too, I am happy with my on-demand content setup and costs.

Previously I used Totem on Ubuntu with the Coherence plugin, but the new XBMC works so much nicer and smoother on the netbook than previously and now I prefer it.

In fact my recipe calls for spending 250 on a nice Asus netbook with long battery life, and this makes a nice and realistically portable, cordless TV for the kitchen, etc. However before I even power up the new hard disk, I've already imaged it and subsequently virtualized it and configured as described. Mods please don't feel a need to move up this post at all, but I'll add that including a normal windows proxy assists in some foreign situations which is otherwise hard to do when Wii or XBOX is doing similar UPnP duty. FWIW, I also have this windows VM operate as a server for my eye-fi (ww.eye-fi.com) card to automatically download images and videos from my camera, but I digress. The idea is to run Ubuntu with XBMC via UPnP on a newly purchased netbook, using the windows license as a server for Playon and the eye-fi software for 250 budget. For me, this is good enough and it works today. Now if my Playon setup gets broken in some way, I'll be upset as a linux user, because I am so happy with things as they are now. Sometimes I'll bork windows updates and whatnot on my own accord, but no problem when I revert to a known-good state using a VMware snapshot.

Since this isn't the only virtual machine I run on fairly solid hardware, the hardware cost to me is negligible; and I need something that supports a dual-display workstation anyway. VMware all the way FWIW.

Re:Netflix

[BLKMGK]

Pretty much my setup too except I run PlayOn on a Win7 desktop, I use it Windows daily anyway. But XBMC is on all of the PC attached to my TVs and works great!

Re:huh?

[jdastrup]

Legit question, for several reasons, and I'm a huge MythTV fan, have been for 8+ years, but I still use it. Here's why, and why not:

1.I no longer frequently use the video and music plugins, since so much content is streaming over the Internet or other devices. I have some old DVD/BluRay rips still on it that I sometimes watch.
2. I no longer use it to watch any DVD's, for the same reason above, AND the DVD player in it sucks at playing 50% of the DVDs I have, and it doesn't play BluRays.
3. I still use it constantly for the TV recording features. It's still the best DVR by far than any thing else out there, F/OSS, or commercial. Yes, I understand, lots of you college kids and hippy-types watch everything on Hulu or wherever else on your laptops in the coffee-shops, but I like recording shows, watching them later THAT SAME NIGHT or the next night, AUTO-SKIP commercials, on a big 65" TV in HD. All my HD content is from an antenna - I only watch network shows, no cable, don't need it. So it works perfect for that.

Cablecard support?

[crazyjj]

Doesn't do me much good if I can't use it on my cable system without a jerry-rigged IR blaster/multiple tuner setup.

Re:Cablecard support?

[Anonymous Coward]

already there!

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable#Option_4:_CableCard_Tuner

sad news is that most everything besides your local channels are likely to have the DRM flags set, which mythtv (or the tuner) honors so you can't record them.

Re:Cablecard support?

[vlm]

The phrase you didn't know to google for is "hdhomerun prime"

I have no personal experience with that device, but its the "talk of the town" in mythtv circles.

Re:Cablecard support?

[Digicrat]

Unfortunately that's one issue outside the scope of the mythtv project.

The HDHomeRun Prime technically does support CableCARD usage with Linux - but only for stations marked as "copy freely." If your cable provider decides to place any more restrictive copy flags on it (now or later), then your out of luck.

To make things even more annoying, even if you have an Xbox360 to use as a supplement for those premium channels, it can't tune the encrypted stations live without a Win7 box to serve as a pass-through.

Cable companies want above else for you to use their hardware and their services (DVR, cable box, etc) and are still fighting tooth and nail to cripple competing services on every front.

Re:Cablecard support?

[kalpol]

Cable companies want above else for you to use their hardware and their services (DVR, cable box, etc) and are still fighting tooth and nail to cripple competing services on every front.

Well, too bad for them that they can't force me to subscribe to cable. I've even gone so far as to pull out the janky wiring from multiple cable installs over the years in the house I purchased.

Re:Cablecard support?

[portwojc]

There are three options for a cable card... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/CableCARD

Of course there is still the DRM problem...

Re:Cablecard support?

[je1330]

Actually, there's another option for tuners. I'm using Mythbuntu with a WinTV-DCR-2650 and Verizon FiOS. When I first set things up, there were several local channels that had copy protection turned on *incorrectly* according to federal regulations, however some research showed that the manufacturer of the HD Homerun devices as well as Hauppauge had firmware updates out for their Cablecard devices that allowed incorrect copy protection flags to be ignored. I highly recommend this setup, the quality is great, I don't have any trouble with recording, and get all the channels I've signed up for (basic extended?).

Re:Cablecard support?

[jedidiah]

> Doesn't do me much good if I can't use it on my cable system without a jerry-rigged IR blaster/multiple tuner setup.

Worked well enough for Tivos.

Since cable cards are not a simple CAM, it's not really a one for one comparison. Using draconian encryption comes with it's own tradeoffs. They aren't something to be casually ignored.

mythnettv

[vlm]

I wish they would integrate mythnettv into the mainline. Its an addon that shoves video podcasts into your "recorded tv shows" list as if they came over the air (or cable or satellite or whatever). Most of what I watch on "TV" is from revision3 or twit.tv or ted talks rss feed now rather than the old fashioned "tv" networks and it all comes from mythnettv run by a cron job every night pulling a bunch of RSS feeds.

Another thing thats bugged me for years with my myth setup at home is they've got all this psuedo-intelligent magic AI post-processing after recording that makes commercials disappear... literally hands free you're watching TV, a break comes up, it skips the commercials. Very nice, very impressive, something no other DVR has, a killer feature that makes it impossible to even consider trying another. However, for years and years they still can't figure out a way to auto-zoom widescreen content on a narrow channel shown on a wide display (in other words, a tiny pic in the center of a giant black border). You'd think tech smart enough to detect and autoskip commercials could figure out when a TV show gets "framed" and adjust the zoom appropriately. Maybe this is something they added back in 0.23 and I just haven't noticed yet, donno.

Another thing that bugs me is digital dropouts make a star trek like sound in addition to ugly picture and I wish the backend could be convinced if the mpeg stream turns to crap that it should cleanly eat the bad checksum frames and mute the sound stream. Doesn't happen often. But the concept of a squelch function when the input drops doesn't seem like rocket science to implement. Even a cheap TV can bluescreen on lack of input signal, why not my myth backend?

If you sign up for schedule data from schedules direct, how come myth can't tell you when it expires other than your listings disappearing?

Back around 0.20 there was a really nice streaming audio player and I found it amusing to listen to various world wide stations on my TV. That disappeared in recent versions, a rare feature regression. I miss that.

Honestly 0.24 is/was about 99% perfect, its just these weird corner cases that still bug me after years and years, and it sounds like 0.25 has fixed none of my real issues while adding support for stuff I simply don't care about.

I am pleased that its 1998 in mythtv land so they finally support ipv6... I'm thinking of setting up a frontend at my mother in law's place and this saves me the effort of putting a vpn client to make her house part of my network. Then she'd have my full library of media and a decent DVR. From multi-room DVR to multi-house DVR, here I come!

Re:mythnettv

[lynnroth]

MythTV definitely has the "zoom a letterboxed SD signal into a widescreen picture". It was at least in .23, which I was running until a couple of weeks ago.

Re:mythnettv

[hackersass]

Expiration of Schedules Direct Data should show up under System Status, under I believe the Listings tab? Gives me a date that my Schedules Direct subscriptions is good until. Has done this since at least .20 as I recall back when it was still Zap2It Labs.

Re:mythnettv

[vlm]

For real? I'm not talking about bringing up the OSD menu, then selecting video then selecting ... zoom or whatever (from memory) then selecting full instead of none, but I'm requesting a magic auto-zoomer where if it sees a black donut with a pic in the middle then it eats the donut and autozooms.

I'm not too worked up, this is only an issue if my atsc tuners are all busy and I'm stuck watching a widescreen show on a SD analog tuner (standard analog cable input). So it doesn't happen often, but it does happen... PBS seems to be the worst WRT this, they've abandoned narrowscreen completely in my market but still push a widescreen image on their analog cable channel.

It looks pretty bad zoomed, but at least there's no black donut.

Re:mythnettv

[vlm]

Hmm OK I guess I was hoping for that to show up in the channel guide. Where an end user could see it rather than a more esoteric location. I'm not asking for the blink tag, but a little something in the corner. Maybe it does that, I'll find out in a couple months.

Oh and I was just about to state that I LOVE schedules direct. I don't love paying for it, but talk about a service provider that just freaking works. You give them money and they do what they say they will all silent like, perfectly, every time, never fails. Its like Hurricane Electric QoS or a toyota car or something. Then I realized I wanted to add another simple myth complaint: I wipe certain channels from my cable system. Certain shopping and sports channels and foreign language channels have been expunged from existence in my mythtv. I can't see them, can't scroll thru them, they're just ... gone. The Schedules Direct link is that you have to obviously delete the channel from the backend tuner, no big deal, but also have to delete the channel from Schedules Direct or else mythtv re-adds the channel next time it downloads from SD. This should not be an issue. There should be a simple channel editor flag for "annihilate all record of this channel". No matter if SD sends it to you, or the channel editor picks it up... I know about the personal channel lists, but I'm talking a level above that system, simple removal from all records. This is also to keep my kids out of channels I want to keep them out of...

Re:mythnettv

[Waffle Iron]

It's not automatic, but at least on my version of MythTV the 'W' key cycles through all the zoom settings during playback, so you don't have to pull up a menu. I use it all the time on my analog cable channels.

I also usually set 4:3 broadcasts to "half zoom" so that it fills up more of the TV screen at the expense of chopping a tiny bit off the top and bottom. So now I when I start watching a program, I instinctively hit W once for normal shows, and twice for letterboxed shows.

Re:mythnettv

[nschubach]

XBMC (Eden/Latest) directly streams Revision3 using the Revision3 Video Add-on. I no longer pull down RSS feeds and filter through them. Simply click Video Addon - Revision3 and browse all their shows.

Re:mythnettv

[CaptainLugnuts]

It has an automatic zoom setting on 0.24 It's what I use at home.

Re:mythnettv

[jmorris42]

Yup, it can be set to automagic. I do it, and lemme tell ya something. That one feature boosted the WAF by 50% alone. Making half-zoom the default on 4:3 content sealed the deal. Few TVs can even do that trick. She is now ready to go for an upgrade to a Prime and have to watch everything through Myth. The advantages of getting rid of/minimizing the stupid black bars everywhere were enough to overcome the slow channel changing while filling the ring buffer. And it looks like 0.25 has sped that up anyway so yea!

Re:mythnettv

[colinnwn]

FYI SchedulesDirect is a volunteer not for profit retransmission of the Zap2it schedules feed. Z2I used to provide this feature as an experimental courtesy. But then they got tired of the support and expense and ended it. This threatened MythTV's relevance as one of the big maintenance headaches was updating the screen scraper scheduling software when schedule websites changed their format. They were generally against TOS of those sites as well. It is then that SD was organized by several people in the MythTV community to negotiate with and provide the Z2I service. The fact that SD is non profit, volunteer, and run by geeks, probably explains your satisfaction with it.

Re:mythnettv

[Hatta]

I'm requesting a magic auto-zoomer where if it sees a black donut with a pic in the middle then it eats the donut and autozooms.

What happens when a film fades in to a small but bright title/logo/whatever on a black background? Wouldn't your algorithm result in zooming in way too far on that image?

Re:mythnettv

[compgenius3]

Yes, it is automatic as of 0.24, but if you use VDPAU to decode, it will not work as the video stream is never passed back through mythtv.

Re:mythnettv

[vlm]

Ah that is exactly my situation.

Re:mythnettv

[vlm]

The automagical commercial skipper already reads the whole file and thinks about it. If a "film" had that aspect ratio for 2 hours... that would be annoying enough not to watch.

Re:mythnettv

[el borak]

something no other DVR has

My ReplayTVs have had this for well over 10 years.

Re:mythnettv

[jedidiah]

The promptly got sued over it and had to disable it. Probably didn't help their position in the market relative to their main rival Tivo.

Now Replay is little more than a historical footnote to bring up during Tivo patent trolling flame fests to highlight the fact that Tivo wasn't being terribly inventive at the time.

Sometimes it's not the technology. It's "policy".

Re:mythnettv

[Hatta]

What if it's live TV?

Re:mythnettv

[wagnerrp]

Z2I used to provide this feature as an experimental courtesy. But then they got tired of the support and expense and ended it.

Close but not quite. Zap2It Labs was restricted to non-commercial use. Commercial applications were required to license the content independently for their users. A certain British guide data application saw its North American customer base drop below the point at which their per-user licensing costs allowed them to remain profitable. Rather than subsidize, refund, or outright abandon those customers, they instead cancelled their contract with the parent Tribune Media Services, and gave directions for their customers to sign up for the non-commercial Zap2It. They ruined it for everyone else.

Re:huh?

[vlm]

and it doesn't play BluRays.

LOL the only BR I play come from Us**et and torrents as video files not old fashioned optical disks, but a glance at the readme for 0.25 shows that adding native blueray support was a major focus of 0.25.

If they're into adding legacy physical media, I'd like an 8-track interface for mythmusic while they're at it. Maybe sony mini-disc player support?

so much content is streaming over the Internet

One of the pains of being an early adopter is you get your attitudes set in stone from ye olden days. For me, streaming will always be shitty breaking up and stuttering realaudio from 1997. Has it improved any? I tried watching a couple youtube videos on my phone recently and they're all stutter and buffer but maybe real devices work better now? Or does streaming still suck?

Re:huh?

[jdastrup]

Native BluRay support would be nice, but considering they can't even get DVD playback to work reliably, I'm not counting on it.

Streaming from legit services (hulu, netflix, even YouTube if the SOURCE is good) is fine for me and all my devices. But, it either costs, has ads, or the content isn't current (e.g. Last season is available ,but not this season ,etc)

Re:huh?

[kalpol]

This is exactly how I use it - recorded OTA television (no cable) and video files with MythTV, and then Netflix in Virtualbox, and Amarok for music. This results in more TV than I have time to watch anyway.

MythTV + XBMC

[Flammon]

MythTV has great backend and XBMC has a great frontend. The combo is fantastic and I don't think there's anything in the proprietary space that offers anything on par. Truely jewels from FOSS.

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[The Good Reverend]

I played with MythTV for a long time, and got it working pretty well. Then I got a Windows7 machine for other reasons, and Windows Media Center just works, right out of the box. I highly recommend it (and wish MS did too - I worry it'll stop being supported before long).

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[jedidiah]

> and Windows Media Center just works, right out of the box

No it doesn't. There's a lot of futzing with code plugins and driver plugins and media manager plugins that you need to do with MCE before it "just works".

Plus there's the whole problem that MCE can only use an xbox as an extender. Using a cheap ION PC is not an option.

My current Myth setup would likely be not possible with MCE.

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[Flammon]

Yes. It's definitely worth it. As a media centre, I can do all of that plus.

My whole library of media whether it was recorded, ripped or downloaded is automatically scraped, rated and organized by XBMC.

I have three ATV2s with XBMC installed connected to each of my TVs. This gives me the freedom to watch anything that I want from anywhere.

All the media state and meta information such as last played, when the show was stopped, fan art, bookmarks, zoom, playback preferences etc are stored in a central database. I can start to watch a show on one TV and continue some other day on another.

The ATV2 is very power efficient, about 2 watts when watching a movie (it has a 6 Watt power supply just in case I need more...), small, quiet and comes with HDMI, optical audio, WIFI and remote. It's a much cheaper, functional and better looking setup than a PC.

All the software is free.

The MythTV recording rules are much more powerful than what you have.

XBMC has a ton of plugins for RSS, the Weather, streaming, Internet radio, Grooveshark. Too many to list.

XBMC can remember the show that you watched and hide them automatically once you've watched it. A feature that comes in handy when you watch a TV series. You never need to remember which episode you've last watched.

XBMC can play anything that I throw at it without fuss. What did you need to go through to play MKV on Windows Media Center? Or did you resort to one of the FOSS players. VLC or Mplayer?

I can update, reboot and manage all the ATV2's remotely via SSH.

My only cost is the $20/year for the MythTV guide plus a donation to each project.

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[bill_mcgonigle]

MythTV has great backend and XBMC has a great frontend

Are parental controls or any kind of privilege levels working in this setup yet?

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[Flammon]

Yes, but a little light on features. The locks are on folders, not content ratings.

http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Profiles

Re:MythTV + XBMC

[bill_mcgonigle]

The locks are on folders, not content ratings.

Ah, thanks. Do I read that page right such that it's a 'folder' as in one of the shared resources I add to XBMC (e.g. /net/fileserver/movies) but not on arbitrary paths (e.g. /net/fileserver/movies/rated-r)?

I guess I could re-organize the movie paths on the MythTV side and change the NFS exports struture ... sure would be great if it could understand ratings and categories, though!

I use it on a Mac Mini

[GlobalEcho]

I've been using MythTV for a couple of years on Mac Mini (running OSX rather than Linux), talking to an HDHomeRun network tuner connected to a broadcast antenna in my attic. The team has really improved the OSX port in the last few years, with the only lack of Linux parity being in the realm of hardware-accelerated playback.

After dealing with the confusing setup screens and active channel scans, it has worked brilliantly, especially since the 0.24 release. The scheduling software is really good, especially using the web frontend. Watching TV on any computer in the house has been very convenient, and the automatic commercial skipping is pleasant.

Between broadcast and online sources, I get most of what I want to watch, the exceptions being Game of Thrones and some cable-only basketball and hockey broadcasts. The complete, uncompressed HD signals over broadcast TV are perceptibly clearer than HD cable (or, worse, HD satellite) signals, which suffer from the compression.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[CaptainLugnuts]

OTA isn't uncompressed, it's just a higher bandwidth connection.

The ATSC spec has ~19Mb total bandwidth with up to 17Mb or so available for video. On a station with no subchannels you get an excellent picture. Cable uses QAM which usually has about 25Mb bandwidth per 6MHz channel. Before you think that it's an improvement, understands that cable companies put from one to six HD channels per 25Mb stream if they are using MPEG2. Usually premium channels (HBO and the like) get better bandwidth but cheaper stations get crappy bandwidth. I'm pretty sure that most of the cable companies are switching over to MPEG4 so I'm sure that they'll dump 6x the streams on the same 25Mb pipe just so they can advertise a thousand channels.

I'll stick with OTA where the quality is better

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[jmorris42]

> I'll stick with OTA where the quality is better.

Or not. The public broadcasters here in LA now jam LPB[123] onto their one HD OTA stream. The ABC station has a secondary NBC feed that has been abused to 720p to match the rest of the station's setup. The NBC station that is closest feeds NBC and a pair of SD junk streams. And so on.

I predicted this here on /. years ago, that real HD would be a chimera as soon as I read that stations would have the option to broadcast multiple streams. No way they would refuse the chance to increase revenue at the expense of picture quality.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[jedidiah]

> OTA isn't uncompressed, it's just a higher bandwidth connection.

It is the most pristine form of a particular broadcast channel available.

Cable companies will typically take that signal and mess around with it to enable better compression within their own transmission medium. There are even websites that track the level of compression that cable operators use for a particular channel.

Cable is like taking a DVD, ripping it, and then running it through mencoder.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[CaptainLugnuts]

LA is a bit of an outlier. If you look at TVFool.com for LA you can see that the TV allocated spectrum is just about full. Even if they wanted to they couldn't broadcast on another frequency.

If you look at New York it's even worse.

Almost every other city has spare bandwidth available. I hope the companies that are doing whitespace crap realize that in the most populous cities they aren't going to have much success.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[GlobalEcho]

I can't believe I wrote "uncompressed" . You're right, of course.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[antdude]

I always thought satellite TV's feeds were better than cable for HD feeds. I know OTA has the best quality if one can get it where they are.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[jmorris42]

LA as in Lousiana. LPB as in Louisiana Public Broadcasting. The first station to go all HD around here, because they are flush with cash. The NBC station still does all local material and commercials SD, even commercials produced in HD get double letterboxed into an SD frame and upconverted back to 1080i on the HD stream. Yuck.

These next few years are going to be a nightmare of black bars and fat people. Amazing how many TVs you see using stretch mode... which wouldn't even be exposed in the UI of the average TV if not for a stupid patent pissing fight that kept most TVs from autodetecting the flags in the VBI of DVD content. Grrr.

We have gobs of empty spectrum but transmitters are scarce resources which will be utilized to maximum profit. Picture quality doesn't sell commercials.

> I hope the companies that are doing whitespace crap realize that in the most populous cities they aren't going to have much success.

Big metro areas have good 4G coverage and WiMax. When that isn't enough there is high enough customer density to support microcells. Whitespace on VHF means they might be able to cover us folk in flyover country with wireless broadband.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[GlobalEcho]

1080i or 1080p will not necessarily look better than 720p. It depends how severely it has been compressed.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[wagnerrp]

Right idea, wrong numbers. 6MHz channels running QAM-256 modulation are good for ~38.4Mbps, nearly double that of ATSC's 8VSB modulation. Also, I'm not aware of any cable companies switching over to H.264 (MPEG4 AVC). There's really just too large an installed user base.

Re:I use it on a Mac Mini

[CaptainLugnuts]

Everything I've read said 25Mb/s of usable data on QAM256. I stand corrected.

Re: zombie channels

[colinnwn]

I had this problem, and as I recall the easier answer was rather than deleting the channel in both MythTv and SD, instead mark it as visible=false in MythWeb.

Re:huh?

[omnichad]

Don't know which Diamond card you're using as a tuner, but Mythbuntu should be familiar enough for you, and is what I've been using.

It does all that you're doing now, and works with your Media Center remote. What chip is your onboard graphics?

Re:huh?

[Kymermosst]

Basically, my scenario as well.

I just rebuilt my MythTV box a few weeks ago after it developed a mainboard issue. So, I decided to upgrade it with an SSD for the boot disk, new OS install, and newer mainboard, proc, and memory.

Honestly, it doesn't take that long to set up. It took about a day to get running the way I wanted, including the hardware work and futzing with the EFI BIOS on the new board.

Here are the installation steps I took:

0. Get the hardware work done.

1. Install Scientific Linux 6.2. 2. Install EPEL and ATrpms repositories and yum-priorities. Set up yum priorities to put Base before ATrpms, and ATrpms before EPEL. Make sure the storage is all there (NFS and local RAID1). Install Base package set only.

2. yum -y install xfce4 mythtv

3. Manual work: download the "firmware" for my Hauppauge tuners and stick in /lib/firmware (5 mins). Download, compile, and install latest lcdproc package (10 mins). Copy the MCE remote definition to lirc config. Make sure that udev doesn't steal my remote and make it a linux-input device (Linux has built-in support for MCE-type USB remote receivers, but it's not easily customized as far as I can tell).

4. mythtv-setup - anyone should be able to work through this.

5. Make sure lircd, lcdd, lcdproc, and mythbackend start up on boot.

6. Log into box and run mythfrontend.

7. Set prefs the way I want them, maybe 30 minutes to go through.

8. Watch TV.

9. Since this is a dedicated box, set up gdm for auto-login and mythwelcome to auto-start, and make sure APCI wakeup is working.