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Etsy Hacker Grants Support Female Programmers
samazon writes "Online retail shop Etsy announced a living-expenses grant program for women interested in attending the free Hacker School 3-month programming course. The program is hosted in various New York locations (NYU and Spotify have both hosted sessions) and not only is Etsy offering $5,000 grants to ten women who are accepted into the program, they're also hosting the summer course, and have offered enough space to double the class size to 40 students."
Can they teach my girlfriend how to play Starcraft?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
Hey I've been out of work for 6 months and I'm not above going tranny
Who cares what sex the code comes from? I want the best possible, not because it's from a woman.
But such is the way of "progressives"
Having females at all in the hacker college is good, for some reason? I don't see how there's any inherent higher value of an woman versus an equally-skilled man; why not make this a merit/financial circumstance based grant?
100 years ago, in New York, there were signs on Italian businesses which read, "Micks need not apply." ("Mick" is a slur against the Irish, for those of you who are not well read.)
50 years ago, angry white people held up signs exhorting black people to stay out of their neighborhoods.
Now that racism is almost completely socially unacceptable (except against Asians, who for some reason are still unjustly and openly targeted,) people who like to blame their failure to relate on those with whom they cannot relate have to find new targets.
If I was a dude selling stuff on Etsy, I would feel insulted. The owners of Etsy make profit from people who sell there, and then take some of that profit to offer financial support - but only if the person was born a certain way? Fuck that. It's sexism, and it's wrong.
here's my contact info... just feed it to your favorite compiler and run the executable to generate a QR code that lets you bypass the 7 proxies to my linkedin profile. btw, your packets smell like roses. you wanna get out of here?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Although I sense some sarcasm in your post, that makes more logical sense than any other reason I've heard so far to only award it to people with a certain set of organs.
Because, for a "meritocracy", there's a whole lots of sexist bullshit going on in tech, and I'm not just talking about management.
Part of the reason that women aren't more prevalent in tech, is that as soon as it becomes known that a female is present in a discussion (on-line, or in-person), the tone of the discussion changes radically. Women have a much harder time getting people to accept their ideas, even controlling for level of experience. And, you can't tell me inexperienced females come up with stupider ideas than inexperienced males (if anything, I think it's the opposite, 'cause at least most women I know bother to listen for a bit before making a comment, where most young males just shoot off their mouth at the first opportunity).
No more are the comments about the technical correctness of ideas being discussed - nope, suddenly there's snide sexual innuendos that slide in. Women are being "bitches" if they fight for their ideas, but, hey, if I (a guy) strongly advocate my idea, that's just fine. And, that's just the start of it. I hear stuff (both in the discussion and afterwards) about such-and-such being "weak" or "avoiding talking" or similar. Not to mention the fact that during such discussions, I'll commonly see that the topic switches from "which idea is best", to "make sure that girl's idea doesn't win". It's annoying, to say the least, and I can understand why many women avoid tech - it's not fun to be constantly harassed or belittled simply due to being the only woman in the room.
The primary problem here is not just a small minority of males being the jerk, but that the majority of males present give them a pass on it, and don't call them on their crap. That's just aiding and abetting the problem. DON'T GIVE THE JERKS A FREE PASS. Pay attention when women are trying to comment, and tell the assholes to shut their mouths when they start in with the sexist comments.
Tech is supposed to be about quality of ideas, not personal attacks. Don't be an enabler.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
If we accept the premise that gender is in no way related to programming abilities, the current gender distribution in the field means that we're missing out on a lot of great talents. So why is that, and what can we do about it? Sticking our heads into the sand and pretending that there is no problem sure as hell hasn't worked so far. I think we need to realize that there is a feedback loop going here. Getting more women into programming helps in creating role models and a less hostile environment.
Why only the women are getting the benefits?
What about the men?
Etsy doesn't care about their male customer any longer, does it?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Ask questions and help me draw it out. It's hard to explain ideas that are not common, and I could use some help.
Misogyny? How so? I'm all in favor of women programming. I love women. I love programming. I want to share it with women. I believe in equality of the sexes. I support the grants.
There is no misogyny here; But I think I've touched a nerve...
I think you are talking about love and intimacy as though they always go the same way, and that men are like "this" and women are like "that." But that isn't the case. Every relationship is different. In some, it is the man who doesn't want intimacy as much as the woman.
Here, I'll translate.
Programmers, particularly people who post on slashdot, can't get laid. They blame women for this, because none of their problems can possibly be their own fault. Therefore they lash out at any attempt to get women involved in programming, or any other area where Slashdotters still feel superior.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I will try to unpack some of the ideas.
"The Inside of the Home" and "The Outside of the Home." I am talking about the contemporary society, but also more broadly. Inside of the home is the space literally within the walls of a house or an apartment. Women tend to be the decorators, and in charge of the children, and in charge of care activities. I am not saying that this has to be the case; I am saying that that is how it tends to be in the majority of the cases in our society. Cooking, cleaning, household chores, childrearing, arranging doctor visits, and on and on. Also, interior decoration, arrangement, placements of objects, coordination of guests, and on and on. Even in dual income families, this is generally the pattern.
"Outside the home" refers to the political arena, the realm of work (in an office, in a quarry, at a factory, etc., etc.,.) Again, I am not saying that this is the required way things need to be. I am saying that this is how it tends to be.
The current fad of "man caves" -- or, homes within the home for men -- is a demonstration of this "Inside/Outside" division.
The "intimate violence" that men experience is the control that women hold over intimate relationships, by the withholding power of the "No." Men ask, women reject. The horrors of this were detailed by a woman named Norah Vincent who is a woman who lived as a man for a full year. She detailed exactly what it felt like to be approaching women as a man, and noted for the first time what it is like to be rejected as a man. Women frequently say, "I have been rejected, I know what it's like to be rejected; Man has nothing on me," -- but Norah Vincent actually knows that there is a difference between night and day between the two.
Women individually and collectively have the power to exclude and shame a man for his sexual advances, which he and he alone is required to make. How many tears have been shed by men because of the way that the sexual relationship plays out? This does not receive enough attention.
I am not saying that women are bad, any more than noble-minded feminists are saying that men are bed. I am saying that there is something needing analysis here, if we are going to truly understand what is going on in the relationships between men and women in -- and this is one offshoot -- in the programming battle as well.
Men know that they are at the mercy of women in the intimate sphere -- and they know where their powers are. Men know that their powers are in the programming sphere, in the trades sphere, in the political sphere, and on and on. Men do not want to disarm because women do not want to disarm.
I have already been called a misogynist, -- just for pointing out the game. The battle is alive and well.
Let's see; ... What else might be unclear, that *perhaps* I can give explain:
I said that "Women being the masters of the inside of the home places women as the masters of the inside of the heart." Here I am treating the home metaphorically -- but the message is very visceral and real. Men who love women but can never "make it work," or feel that they have to go through layers of game or interpretation or just giving up (humiliation) in order to "make it work" should be able to intuit what is going on, though. Men and women (heterosexual) have each other in a death-grip around the heart. We love one another, clearly, but we are in a war, we are in a battle. We need each other, and that need has become war.
Women can say "No," and hold themselves in reserve. Men can push her out or dominate her -- if not physically, then politically, economically, or "any means necessary," whether consciously or unconsciously. Of course, women can play the dominance game as well. But we all feel it. We know what is happening. We know when we are being pushed, and we know when we are pushing. At some level, we know.
My appeal is to people who dream for equality, true equality, and love, between
You are correct. Every relationship is different, and every individual is different. But there are some generalities that can be made. For example, we are talking about men and women in programming. A great many of the men here are "pushing back," arguing for the purpose of keeping their territory.
Are ALL the men doing that? No, of course not. But there are forces at work here, there are real lives being lived here.
Intimacy is a mixed word, too. It can mean a lot of things. Here I am focusing on sexual intimacy -- I think this is where most ("a great many") men feel locked out.
And I will push it back further: Even men who are happily married -- even in relationships between men and women, where there is no plan to escalate to sex, -- there is still the push and pull of desire in (say) the workplace. There is an intimacy even in this field. Just because a man's sex life with his wife has dwindled to near nothing, and he has given up on sex with anyone else, -- it doesn't mean that there aren't feelings, and that these dynamics are alive and at work within him and her and the society.
I believe that sexual desire is like a nervous system within the social organism. It is always at play. When a group of men and women meet together for purpose A -- something like "making money together" (at a company,) or "going on a picnic" (at a gathering of friends) or "going to the movies" -- wherever there are men and women (or more generally: a "sexual landscape," to include the LGBTx,) -- there are always TWO channels. Channel "A" is the explicit, stated purpose, and then there is always, ALWAYS, Channel "B": the sexual nervous system. The networks of desire, shyness, bravado, temptation, hope, sadness, at play in the sexual realm.
I've gone a long way from your comment, but what I want to say is that "intimacy" is a large field. 2 people who don't even speak to each other, -- just see each other on the bus every now and then -- can (and often DO) have an intimate relationship. So that "intimacy" is vast.
That's an interesting theory, but you see similar anger towards Indian programmers, getting modded up here on Slashdot, even though they are male. So it's probably not just a matter of sexual violence.
It's actually rather annoying.......in the Trayvon/Zimmerman stories, tons of comments get modded up for complaining about the latent racism in America. Then in a story about Indian programmers, you see actual cases getting modded up complaining about the Indians.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
1) Environments with a good mix of men and women are more productive
2) 20% of all long term relationships start at work. I am all for improving my odds and so should you be. Its not sexist or objectifying to actually want to interact with the opposite sex daily.
This is acceptable to me because, its not necessarily "affirmative action", but rather it is attempting to attract another demographic. Lets be clear here, this program is:
a) Free.
b) Not terribly competitive.
"To put it another way: If our culture was not sexually violent, if in our culture men had loving sexual intimate relationships with women, they would have no problems with women occupying "their" space. But in a culture of sexual humiliation of men, there is no way that they are going to give up "their" territory."
Here is a much more direct answer. If women like Mary Gardinier didn't first scream her head off about how women are always discriminated and that we should carry every female word on a golden scale, to finish it off with telling us that she (Mary) knows everything about what is like growing up as a young boy and being bullied, then perhaps we would take female complaint seriously. Until then, the answer is simple. You want ruthless competition, you get ruthless competition. Just don't complain that we (men) have a better hand than you have. You could have joined the basement hackers when you were young, but you and your ilk were to busy fraternizing with the cool kids. Karma is a curious thing, isn't it?
It is a fact that men have a lower average lifespan then women. Since it would be foolish to assume that men want do die younger it must therefor be women who are the cause of this. That is your logic. The races and genders are not equal. Only foolish bleeding hearts believe this, there are differences in alcohol tolerance, weight gain from sugar intake, heart disease risks and countless other diseases which affect one race more then the other.
To therefor blindly assume that all races and genders are equally good at programming is naive or downright hateful.
What are programmers? Well, from Slashdot you can readily deduce that a LOT of them are not the social norm. Gosh, could (functional) Autism which affects men more then women be over represented among computer programmers?
Historic fact is that when math became computers, women were OVER represented in the field. They were considered better at it. Sexist? Now they are under represented (worked with exactly 1 female co-worker in over a hundred men in my career, in my class there were two girls out of 25 boys and our class had a high number of girls, as in all the girls from that year).
Is this the male culture? Is it genetics? Is it culture? Is it race? Is it gender? Is it physical? If you deny any of them without investigation, you are ultimately doing everyone a disservice. It would be like denying that a soldier can't get Sickle Cell disease, because once they couldn't because blacks couldn't become soldiers. Now they can and a doctor would be wise to use race when trying to diagnose a person. Overly PC is harmful.
We have in western culture some typical male dominated professions and some typical female dominated once, and a lot of surprises with them if you think about it. Professors are male, teachers female. Why the shift in gender with the age of the pupil? Why are cafeteria run by women but top restaurants by men when women do most of the cooking in the world? Why are dress makers male?
Mind you, the Dutch government at least IS sponsoring men who want to teach younger kids, since it has been decided that a lack of male role-models can be harmful to the development of young boys. So it is not like white men are never the beneficiary of positive discrimination.
Fact is that women tend to score better at math then boys, until a certain age. Does a rise in estrogen kill of brain cells? An observation of teenage girls (curse you judge for taking away my binoculars!) tends to confirm this... then again, teenage boys have trouble chewing gum... and walking? HA! Have you seen a teenage boy try to walk?
Most companies I worked at were male dominated, I work in tech after all. But I also worked for a charity once and there the majority was women (very attractive ones to, that is where they are all hiding). So, even in "office" environments, there are gender separations, not so much along profession but along the type of company. Those women were nice enough to me as a male outsider BUT there was a seperation. Not so much because they refused to discuss female stuff when I was there, but because they did. I was raised by women and so raised to see women as delicate pure innocent creatures or they would hurt me. Talk to females not playing the gentle role on their own turf and "EEEEEK". Before that, as a I nerd I was slightly afraid of women, now I know I was right.
Can a workfloor gender culture have an effect? Duh! But can this be changed? And how?
There is no shortage of smart young girls. There is no shortage of young girls that might consider a tech career. There is a shortage of tech women on the workfloor. Something happens between the age of 10 and 20 that causes a shift.
I am a nerd who plays with model trains, not for the modeling but for the automated controlling of a train network, think of it as robotics for those who can't handle path finding. Sometimes we demonstrate this, at rail modelers conventions. Sometimes wives, girlfriends (HA!) and daughters/sisters are dragged along. They are
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Or perhaps they just don't like discrimination, especially when it is being sold as being anti-descriminatory.
"Having been the only woman in a CS class, I can assure you that it's not fun"
Oh please. There were some girls on my course and they had a great time.
"It doesn't help that many women do not feel safe in the computer lab at night."
What sort of lab is this? Do they make crack alongside the computers? Or have you just been smoking some?
"f you think that tech is a meritocracy, you're not paying attention. If you think everyone has the same opportunities, and the same encouragement you do, you're not paying attention. If you think that there isn't discrimination against women, you're not paying attention."
I'm male and I work as a programmer. I never had encouragement to do it from anyone , in fact my parents wanted me to go into the family business and didn't understand computers at all. But guess what - I didn't start feeling sorry for myself , start making pathetic excuses for why I couldn't do it and blaming everyone else for my inadequacies like you clearly do, I just did the career I wanted to do. Period.
Grow up.
Your ideas are not only common Dr Phil soundbites, they are also wrong. Perhaps you should pursue a qualification in psychology before mindlessly repeating soundbites?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Starting a romance at work is a very bad idea. Both for you, your spouse, your boss and colleagues.
Also, in my experience, environments with a good mix of men and women are less productive, exactly because of flirting, hidden jealousy and dick measuring.
I wish you would all read the article. The reason they're offering this specifically to women is to INCREASE female applicants to the Hacker School - less than 5% of applicants in some rounds were from women, and GUESS WHAT - as a woman working in IT, I can tell you that I was NEVER encouraged to take computer classes and had several teachers discourage me from it. I was given pats on the head my whole life and because of my parents, it pissed me off enough to get to where I am today, but plenty of my peers didn't have amazing, supportive parents like mine and were never encouraged to excel in math, science or technology. Say what you want, but until you've grown up with a vagina and been told "that class isn't for you, dear" you need to really consider what you're saying about females in education. There IS a reason women are targeted for grants like this, and it's because when you get down to it, little girls are not encouraged to be scientists, programmers and physicists. A trip to the girl's toys section of walmart should be proof enough of that.
I have the hiccups.
Yes. As a female engineer, I absolutely despise applying looser standards to women because it helps perpetuate the stereotype that women are less qualified than men. On the other hand, programs that encourage women to become better at technical fields can help break the stereotype. I can go toe to toe with most men in my field just fine, and I'm even perfectly content to be the only woman in a room with 20 or more men, but it wears me down every time someone I'm meeting with makes the assumption that a male colleague is the right person to direct technical questions to - especially when it continues to happen after both of us have made clear that I'm the technical lead. Then again, I find I have to consciously stop myself from making the same type of assumption when I'm on the other side. More women in technical fields who are in fact qualified to be there is the answer.
Good: Scholarship programs, outreach, mentorship. Bad: lower standards, hiring/admission preferences, token females.
Not to be rude, because I really make an effort not to be rude on here, but I call bullshit on this. I feel like you are speaking out about your personal life/issues/whatever rather than any objective "truth" about the world. Having been in relationships and observed relationships, studied both the social sciences and the technical sciences, you're referring to a marginally antiquated and very narrow sphere of human relationships. There are plenty of men who make "inside" the residence their space and plenty of women who work while their men take care of the house and children. And in many, one would hope most, relationships, everything is of equal give-and-take. As for sexual rejection, men are just as capable as women of rejecting another's advances, and we feel the same shame and confusion, particularly when the rejected advance was to our significant other. Just because you see it on tv and have experienced it yourself (maybe) doesn't make it so. I don't have time to argue with each of your points, and I DO think that your feelings are valid and your opinion is of value, but I feel like you are making generalizations based on subjective information.
I have the hiccups.
We have all spent our lives being told what to do and what not to do. If I listened to 1% of what I was told at school I'd be carrying bricks on a building site for a living and being paid minimum wage, I'm not. The only people that get anywhere in life are the ones who get kicked and carry on regardless.
Quit moaning about how you are some special oppressed class who needs support and just be equal instead. Stop perpetuating sexist nonsense and get judged on the standard of your work.
A trip to the girl's toys section of walmart should be proof enough of that.
Yes, can we *please* make girl's toys (and clothes) in something other than hot pink?
I have a daughter, and I tried to keep the pink away from her. Oh, how I tried. But once you get out of pure unisex baby clothes, the girls section is *nothing but freaking pink*!
, little girls are not encouraged to be scientists, programmers and physicists.
You've obviously never seen Star Gate SG1. Turn in your geek card.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
My English professor (white, male) was told he would never get into OU's journalism school by his high-school professors and advisers. He did, and he graduated. When he was done with that he went on to accomplish some of the most amazing things most people will never come close to. He, for some reason, decided to walk the entire globe--which resulted in him becoming an internationally published author. He traversed the globe with no money, relying only on the generosity of people he met along the way. To date, only two people have ever been known to do this--and the other is not an author. Oh yeah, his dad thought he was crazy too.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Good: Scholarship programs, outreach, mentorship.
I concur. Where can I get some of this? Just that, these all seem to be closed off to me on the grounds I'm white, male, atheist..
Bloody hell. Now I remember why I got out of IT. :-(
First clue you're not cut out to be a hacker: you have to take hacking classes.
This is one of those attempts to encourage young women to become more involved in areas that they have tended to avoid.
I've been involved in some of these attempts to foster more women into technical fields before I retired. The overlying issue is that there are many more women in the workplace than years past, and many of them are professionals. But they appear to be shunning many of the technical fields. Other fields such as Medical Doctors, Veterinarians, lawyers, MBA's as well as social fields are well represented by females.
And it appears that is just how they like it. When we polled the ladies what their aspirations were, probably half wanted to be lawyers, some doctors, and the rest MBA's - so that correlates well. Over the years, there was 1 girl who wanted to be an engineer.
But now what would be the cause? As popular as it might be to say that the engineering and technical fields were somehow too "male oriented", or that they would be otherwise discriminated against - I don't buy it. Nor do I believe that somehow little girls have been trained by their dolls to shy away from technology. You think that technology is male oriented? Try MBA land.
I think the real reason that young women stay away from the technical fields is that given the working hours, pay, and the harder educational route, they just figured out that it's too big a pain in the ass. Note however that becoming an MD is also a grind, so my idea isn't perfect.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Excellent post.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
Antagonism towards Indian programmers (racism) is a different issue, with different dynamics.
I don't deny that it exists, and I don't deny that it is important.
men feel that they have a right, and perhaps even a duty, to own the outer world.
I'm not sure this is a real thing.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Equal rights, OK.
Oh, Dr. Phil is saying this? You're just pushing. That's all. Zero content.
You need to learn the difference between "how things should be" and "how things actually are". Education will help.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.