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Why the Middle East Is a Good Place For Women Tech Entrepreneurs

pbahra writes "Conferences for start-ups and entrepreneurs often feature 'pitch contests,' slots in which aspiring entrepreneurs take to the stage to sell their ideas to the audience. Last month's ArabNet conference, held in the Lebanese capital, was no different. What was different, however, was the number of pitches from female entrepreneurs. The stereotype has it that women in the Middle East are subjugated, oppressed and barely let out of their houses. But if that is the case, how come 40% of the pitches were from women—a higher percentage than is typical in equivalent conferences held in Europe? Nor was this closer-to-equal representation of women unique to ArabNet--other conferences in the region boast similar ratios."

44 of 229 comments (clear)

  1. Soooo.... by baldass_newbie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How many of them still had their clitoris?

    --
    The opposite of progress is congress
    1. Re:Soooo.... by Jawnn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Troll? Seriously? Because the Middle East is such a hotbed of advances in the area of women's rights, I suppose.
      Yes, yes. It's not fair to paint the entire region with one brush, but to even remotely suggest that the region, in general, isn't still influenced heavily by ass-backwards, women hating, religious fucktards is to miss a stupendously obvious reality. I'd say the same about Tennessee, but I think women get a moderately better shake there.

    2. Re:Soooo.... by Jessified · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I concur. The whole article seems to be trying to say that the Middle East isn't a sexist place.

      That's like saying saying racism didn't exist in the 50s because some subset of black men were allowed to become a doctors.

      "You see? X-bias doesn't exist because some token example contradicts the mountains of examples where the bias does apply."

      Honestly. Does anyone here watch Star Trek? (Of course you do.) Does this not remind you of the Ferengi, as mainly depicted in DS9? The only difference I can see is that the Ferengi prefer their women unclothed rather than fully covered.

      How about some examples from this article:
      Lets start with the picture of the business women covered up from head to toe. For every one woman that truthfully and freely prefers to be dressed like that, how many are coerced by a sexist society?

      More flexible work options, freelance, home-based work, low capital requirements; you can see why starting a company on a small scale is a much more viable thing for women to do than get a corporate job.

      Why is that?

      In Jordan, specifically, the main reason for women not entering the work force is the lack of a proper transit system. We don't have an affordable transit system that can take women from remote areas to the city.

      Is the lack of public transportation not an issue for men, too? Why do women suffer from a lack of public transportation but men do not?

      Home working also allows women to combine their traditional roles of homemaker and mother, with being an entrepreneur.

      There it is. Women belong in the kitchen. Also, I imagine it's less embarassing to have women doing business anonymously over the internet, because no one needs to know she's a woman.

      He said that some private-sector companies would consider employing women, but were put off by the cost and the lack of knowledge of how to hire them. "One of the problems is that they don't know where to go to find the right kind of talents."

      Apparently, hiring women costs more than hiring men, and it's apparently much harder to assess the abilities of women than it is for men. Did not know that.

      If you were to look at the law, even in a country that claims to be as liberal as Lebanon, technically if your husband wanted to prevent you from traveling, he can. Technically you cannot open a bank account as a married woman, your husband has to do it. However, in practice these laws are not enforced."

      Well, it's not a repressive country if they simply don't enforce oppressive laws...for now. And that's an example of the most liberal middle eastern countries!

      It would be ironic if a region that is castigated for its attitudes toward women actually turned out to be more welcoming of female entrepreneurs than those doing the castigating.

      Right. The entire article depicted a more welcoming environment than the western world.

      The fact that any women are succeeding despite living in repressive regimes speaks to their strength of will, not the supposed "progress" of those countries.

    3. Re:Soooo.... by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thats primarily in Sub-Saharan Africa not the Arab world.

      wrong, wrong, wrong.

  2. so they can pitch just not drive cars... by johnjones · · Score: 5, Informative

    Women driving has been a controversial issue in Saudi Arabia since 1990 when 47 women got into 14 cars and drove on to a main street in Riyadh. They were stopped, suspended from work for two years and condemned for years in religious sermons and social circles....

    honestly

     

    1. Re:so they can pitch just not drive cars... by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Funny

      In the US it's repeated again and again that "driving is a privilege, not a right". Many men also are forbidden to drive by their ex-wives.

    2. Re:so they can pitch just not drive cars... by Rasperin · · Score: 2

      I've got to admit, that scares the living shit out of me. Note to the wise, if you're going to split with your wife try to make sure she has a job that makes nearly as much as you. It will reduce what you owe in child support, she'll be hard pressed to get alimony, and there's nothing you can do about daycare. It's fuckton expensive and as a married couple you can exempt 4500/year (total). I pay that in two months of day care.

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  3. As Arab cities go... by HBI · · Score: 4, Informative

    Beirut isn't very Arab. It's close to 40% Christian.

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    1. Re:As Arab cities go... by operagost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correct. Islam is the main problem. The Qur'an says that beating women is a step in the process of obtaining obedience, and there are several references in the Hadith of women being inferior.

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    2. Re:As Arab cities go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Liberals don't want anyone to pay for someone else's birth control. We want women to pay for their own, through their insurance. Since shopping around for insurance is generally infeasible, we want to make sure that insurers do not discriminate against women's sexual health.

      2. Liberals do not fall in line with Islamic radicals. Liberals denounce and campaign against many elements of extremist religions, including Islam. Liberals fight for women's rights around the world. However:

      A. Liberals do not lump all Muslims into a faceless, extremist block. There are lots of Muslims that adhere to humanist views on gender, sexual orientation, politics, and religion. Yes, there are many extremist Muslims, and many poor and undereducated Muslims that are taken advantage of in extremist societies. But Liberals recognize that Islam isn't the root of these issues, it's just that in some cases is a tool by which its adherents are exploited. We would rather solve the root causes (poverty, inequality, inadequate education) than attack Islam itself.

      B. Liberals do not believe that bombing Middle Eastern countries is the best way to address those root causes of extremism.

    3. Re:As Arab cities go... by operagost · · Score: 5, Informative

      Would the person who modded me "troll" please point out where my information is incorrect? Read the sayings of Mohammed as recorded by Al Bukhari: "A nation headed by a woman shall never succeed"; "If I have commanded kneeling for somebody, I would command a woman to kneel for her husband", "Women lack brain and religion". And the Qur'an, I think it's in Sura 5, "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of other punishment)." Don't deny the truth.

      --

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    4. Re:As Arab cities go... by LittleVito · · Score: 2

      Beirut isn't very Arab. It's close to 40% Christian.

      I think you mean isn't very Muslim, not Arab. The Christians in Beirut are still Arabs.

    5. Re:As Arab cities go... by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Arab" is an ethnic group, not a religion. It's more than possible to be an "Arab Christian," (typical Copt), just as it is to be an "Hispanic Jew."

    6. Re:As Arab cities go... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      You could be God Almighty himself and be marked as "troll". The moderation has nothing to do with the facts. It has everything to do with whether or not you pissed someone off with mod points.

      Not that I agree with it, just telling you how it is.

      --
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    7. Re:As Arab cities go... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Would the person who modded me "troll" please point out where my information is incorrect? Read the sayings of Mohammed as recorded by Al Bukhari: "A nation headed by a woman shall never succeed"; "If I have commanded kneeling for somebody, I would command a woman to kneel for her husband", "Women lack brain and religion". And the Qur'an, I think it's in Sura 5, "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of other punishment)." Don't deny the truth.

      You can split hairs about this all day long but in the end it is pointless to make fundamentalist arguments like "if the Quran tells you to do <some misogynistic act> all moslems must be following that instruction mindlessly". This is especially true because the Bible is full of similar misogynistic and inhumane crap. When was the last time you saw a couple guilty of adultery begin stoned to death at the city gates? (That little gem came from Deuteronomy 22:23-24) Both the Quaran and the Bible were written in very different times long ago and that fact should kept in mind when reading either text. If you really want to convince us that all moslems take every archaic passage in the Qaran seriously then we must by the same logic also argue that all christians do as well. Thankfully most moslems and christians (apart from some die-hard fundies) do not take everything written in the Quaran literally and implement every crazy thing that is written in scripture. Only brainless fundies do that.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    8. Re:As Arab cities go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you really want to convince us that all moslems take every archaic passage in the Qaran seriously then we must by the same logic also argue that all christians do as well.

      If someone tried to preach murder, violence and the destruction of democratic states in the largest christian church in the capital city of a major western nation, how long would he be allowed to continue? On the other hand Abu Hamza was able to do this for 5 years until stopped by part of the government.

      What Abu Hamza was able to do for so long in the Finsbury mosque shows that the die-hard fundies in Islam are more than just a tiny minority. Maybe they are not the majority, but they are a significant proportion.

    9. Re:As Arab cities go... by jvkjvk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your words would be commendable, but we have every day knowledge of how women are actually treated by proponents of the religion, in the current time. They would be more commendable if you didn't create arguments that no one has made - e.g "all moslems must be following that instruction mindlessly".

      You are the only one making that argument, and you do it so you don't have to fact the actual reality of what is happening.

      When was the last time you saw a couple guilty of adultery begin stoned to death at the city gates?

      Well, they generally just stone the *woman* now, so that's ok?

      You can claim the "no true scotsman" argument only up to the point you have actual governments that have implemented policies. It is then no longer just the die hard fundies - they have inculcated the society to accept their basic premises. This is easily seen by the lack of prosecution of people who murder their female relatives who have brought "dishonor" upon their house.

      Sorry, but you are the one being the brainless fundy, making up your own toy arguments and vanquishing those wooden soldiers.

      Regards.

    10. Re:As Arab cities go... by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Go to Jerusalem and piss on a Bible or a Torah, then go to Makkah and piss on a Quran.

      Post results.

      All superstitions are of course bad because they are nonsense, and because they are enemies of truth. Why we should respect anything thought up by people who thought the Earth was flat is highly questionable.

      --
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    11. Re:As Arab cities go... by walterbyrd · · Score: 2

      "At best western society is 2 generations ahead of the middle east in its treatment of women."

      When was the last time a woman in the US was sentenced to being stoned to death for adultery?

      How often are woman in the US hanged for the crime of being raped?

      Since when can you divorce a woman, in the US, just by saying "I divorce you" three times; and also get away with no alimony, no child support, and full custody, automatically.

      Since when have women not been allowed to drive, or work, in the US?

  4. Saying it's a sterotype isn't saying it's not true by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The stereotype has it that women in the Middle East are subjugated, oppressed and barely let out of their houses.

    In Saudi Arabia, that's *not* just a stereotype. Not to say that Saudi Arabia is representative of the entire region. But let's not pretend that more pitches from women at some conference makes it okay for one of the largest countries of the region to still tell women they can't drive, vote, show their faces in public, or even leave their house without male escort.

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  5. False choice fallacy by sideslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Both may be true -- that this conference was friendly to women running startups, and also that women in many parts of the Middle East are drastically subjugated versus women in at last European and American countries. Who wrote this summary, anyway, and with what agenda?

    1. Re:False choice fallacy by alexander_686 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. To elaborate. From the article: “Home working also allows women to combine their traditional roles of homemaker and mother, with being an entrepreneur.”

      It’s not unusual for women to run business – but I find this sentence telling. There is a difference between starting a good solid small business and a start up.

      The first is basically about creating a job for yourself. It may be a restaurant, day care, or a small professional business (lawyer, hair stylist, whatever ) but it’s about creating a job for yourself that lets you manage your life /work balance.

      The second is about putting in long hours for months at a time to hit that grand slam.

      This is, of course, a continuum between the two. I am just surprised that the submitter and article is pitching it this way. Are these woman truly liberality if they are forced into the shallow end of the pool? Small, home businesses are great, but it’s the lower end of the entrepreneurial market.

  6. TFA answers the summary's question. by Internal+Modem · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFA answers the question: "Home working also allows women to combine their traditional roles of homemaker and mother, with being an entrepreneur. " So they are able to fulfill their expected roles. Also, "...most of the female entrepreneurs at the conference were young and had spent time in Europe, the U.S. or Australia." Many of them have more permissive families.

    1. Re:TFA answers the summary's question. by Dyinobal · · Score: 2

      Ya how the hell did this garbage make it onto slashdot, it's sexist and misleading.

    2. Re:TFA answers the summary's question. by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, kidding. It looks like it was written by some Saudi prince who thinks that imprisoning his wife in his house is liberating, as long as he lets her run a mail order business and only beats her once a month instead of once a week.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    3. Re:TFA answers the summary's question. by El+Torico · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's a joke here in Bahrain -
      How does a Saudi tell which woman is his wife when they are in public?
      She's the one that flinches when he raises his hand.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    4. Re:TFA answers the summary's question. by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      Ya how the hell did this garbage make it onto slashdot, it's sexist and misleading.

      Exactly! Usually /. summaries are just misleading! I don't want all of this misogyny getting in the way of my daily dosage of misrepresented facts, half-truths, and outright omissions!

  7. Re:Saying it's a sterotype isn't saying it's not t by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Don't forget get being beating, raped and even murdered with the tacit approval of the society and the law.

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  8. Ya know... by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll bet they'd be in an even better position if they were in countries/cultures where they didn't have to worry about being stoned to death and could drive themselves to meetings. But that's just me.

    1. Re:Ya know... by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You mean like lebanon where this meeting took place?
      Not all of the Middle East is Saudi Arabia. Yet, the US backs Saudi Arabia while they do these things and threatens to attack Iran who does not.

    2. Re:Ya know... by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 2

      No, Lebanon is not your typical Arab or Persian country. Try holding that conference in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen , Iran, Kuwait, Afghanistan or Pakistan. Or pretty much any country that has an overwhelming Islamic majority. As posted before, Lebanon is nearly 40% Christian.

    3. Re:Ya know... by ppanon · · Score: 2

      The cultural context is probably a big part of it. In many Arab nations the "proper manly" work is running businesses, and as a result the technical and scientific fields are not as popular with men and have a much higher female representation than in the West (where women are culturally expected to be poor at maths, the gateway to technical careers, with that cultural expectation acting as a self-fulfiling prophecy). Thus, since you have a higher proportion of women with the requisite technical training, it's not surprising that you would have a similarly high proportion (or even higher, when their mobility and work options are restricted) acting as entrepreneurs.

      --
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    4. Re:Ya know... by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Islam is young, in another 1000 years it will be as tolerant as those Christians who call women sluts for wanting birth control. You probably won't live that long so you can continue your mindless hate against the "Other". Turkey wants to join the EU, so they cannot do what you are claiming will happen.

      Indonesia is also majority Islam, over 85%, and has had a female president, something many Western nations have never done.

  9. Acceptance percent? by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 2

    According to summary, 40% of applicants were women. What percent of the accepted submissions were women? That would be a far mare significant statistic!

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    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
  10. Re:Saying it's a sterotype isn't saying it's not t by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A female VP from a major defense contractor was made to wait outside a contract signing not too long ago. A male subordinate sat at the event in her stead.

    And that's supposedly the way women can be treated by the business classes. I certainly would think twice before I subjected myself to such a culture. If you can be a successful entrepreneur, you would provably also succeed in a much more favorable culture.

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  11. Re:Saying it's a sterotype isn't saying it's not t by crazyjj · · Score: 2

    They better hope that oil lasts forever. Because that's about the only thing that makes anyone want to do business there now.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
  12. Ouch... by Troyusrex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article stressed how the women in Saudi Arabia could "Work from home". It neglected to say that the almost have to since they aren't allowed in public without a male relative around.

  13. Re:Don't believe the propaganda by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    The part where one country is not an entire continent sized region or representative of a globe spanning religion.

    Also Women is Saudi Arabia can vote and run for office, historically they could not (like everywhere 100 year ago).
    Also there is nothing in the law about leaving the house. Particular families might practice that but you would have to look for statistics to see how prevalent, if at all, that it is.
    As for face coverings, yes Saudi Arabia practices that but most Arad nations outright ban the practice and the consensus is that that practice is a mistranslation and is only practiced by fanatics.

    So what is that? 2/5 complete lies, and the rest exaggerations [some of them so extreme as to have no sliver of truth] (particularly if you look at them as accusations against all Arabs).

    You can find crazies, fanatics, and hate filled individuals in all countries and religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church).

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  14. Read the UNDP report series by gelfling · · Score: 2

    Compiled for the UN by the Arab world's friendliest own Arab economists and technicians. The Arab world is at or near the bottom, for the entire world, in terms of literacy, education, technical proficiency, intellectual property creation, research and development, internet penetration, media penetration, social and media freedom, contract law, technical small business start ups and technology transfer. Below the levels of much of Africa and SE Asia. Culturally, the exclusion of women, minorities only speaks to part of it. It really has to do with a historical tradition of abandoning everything the West had to contribute since the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution. If you want a Turkish -centric history of this read "What Went Wrong?" by Bernard Lewis.

  15. Re:Best case: badly misinformed, worst case: ... by gay358 · · Score: 2

    Without Hezbollah Israel would probably had done similar kind of ethnic cleansing in Lebanon that Palestinians have faced within Palestine. Remember, Hezbollah was more or less started only after Israel attacked and occupied Lebanon and the main goal of Hezbollah was driving Israel out of the country.

    And in Israel some of the Jews have started their own gender separation, which is worse than in many Arabic/Muslim countries. For example, in many parts of Israel, women aren't allowed to use the same sidewalks, they have to sit in a different parts of busses etc. And women who don't obey, are severely beaten.

  16. That's mainly Africa by Quila · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Female circumcision is an African tribal custom, not Middle Eastern. It is now associated with Islam since most of the area was conquered by Muslims,. Muslim rulers generally let the locals continue their customs, and a lot of conversion was a converted king who told his populace to convert, but didn't dare risk rebellion by abolishing popular customs such as this. Arguments still continue as to whether it's an acceptable practice under Islam.

  17. Percentages and enforcement by Quila · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Thankfully most moslems and christians (apart from some die-hard fundies) do not take everything written in the Quaran literally and implement every crazy thing that is written in scripture.

    First, we need to separate personal choice from law or enforced custom.

    A tiny percentage of Christians still practice strict biblical Christianity (believe gays should be put to death, women wear head covering in church, etc.), and NONE of them are able to put that into law to force others to obey their interpretation. In fact, they're generally laughed at or condemned by the society at large -- see the Westboro Baptists.

    A large percentage of Muslims still practice strict Quranic Islam, and many of them have it in law and enforced custom to force others to obey their interpretation. People are constantly jailed, beaten and even executed for violating these religious laws.

    There is a BIG difference in practice between Christianity and Islam.

    Both the Quaran and the Bible were written in very different times long ago and that fact should kept in mind when reading either text.

    People have been studying the Bible with this view for quite a long time. However, this has only recently started to happen with the Quran and Hadith, and such a thing should not be done in a Muslim country if you value your life. The Quran is still considered the absolute, unchanging, infallible Word of Allah by most adherents. That and Hadith form their law. If gays were to be put to death then, they are to be put to death now. Allah's law does not change.

  18. *sigh* by shiftless · · Score: 2

    Note to the wise, if you're going to split with your wife try to make sure she has a job that makes nearly as much as you.

    Or better yet, don't be a moron, grow a pair of balls, and don't be a stupid ass by marrying a stupid bitch who's going to take you to the cleaners.

    I see this shit getting start every single day, at frat parties. I live in a college town and see all the dudes with ZERO game "somehow" "get lucky" and hook up with some decent looking chick who is going to college at a tech school for "business administration" and is clearly desperate as fuck to get out of this small town. Women have an extraordinary ability to rationalize themselves into this type of arrangement where they "think" they're happy....until they're not. It isn't until 3-4 years later that her mind and heart starts to wander, and by then she's probably got him cowering in a corner and bending to her every will.

    The cure to this is to develop actual value and confidence in that value.....then after marrying a woman of equal or [i]lesser[/i] value, work to maintain your value instead of sitting on the couch getting fat and nasty, and guess what???? If you do your fucking homework and pick the right girl, you'll never have a problem with a stupid bitch taking you to the cleaners!