Slashdot Mirror
Reddit Subpoenaed In Wrongful Death Lawsuit
redletterdave writes "In March, a 51-year-old Reddit user named 'Black Visions' wrote his last post on Reddit. He had been writing frequently about depression and suicide, but in his last post where he also threatened his own suicide, others decided to egg him on even further. That turned out to the be the last straw: Seattle news soon reported Jerry had jumped eight stories from a hotel room in the Double Tree in Tukwila, Washington. Reddit announced on Wednesday that the user's sister Sandy has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against nine Reddit users who egged him on, and Reddit has also been subpoenaed in identifying the information of another three individuals."
The people involved did a despicable thing. But I can't see how it's any more illegal than someone shouting "Jump!" at someone on a roof top when emergency services are trying to talk them down.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
On the internet, nobody knows if you are who you say you are. You could really be a depressed person, or you could be a 7 line perl script. You could be talking to a real 15 year old girl, or it could be an FBI agent. Then there's products like Siri, cleverbot, etc., that blur the line even further. But even if that problem could be 'solved', there is no way to know whether an internet identity is a single person or a group.
So given that identity is not provable online, why should people act like it is? Also, if you don't mod this post +5, I'm going to hang myself with a power cord.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Let's find out.
"Kill yourself, Anonymous Coward."
Waiting for cops...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
That's why /b/ doesn't keep a record of its posts - by the time a family member would react to something like this, the post would already be gone. And even then, the people are posting as anonymous anyway.
Not posting AC because I'm a real man.
You know it crossed your mind. Don't lie.
The article cites a user-made post, not an official statement by reddit. Multiple people on reddit, including comments on the cited SubredditDrama post, have pointed out that there is no hard evidence that
-Black Visions killed himself
-Sister of Black Visions is actually Black Vision's sister
-That there is any subpoena or legal action being pursued
Get back to me after there's real evidence of any of those things.
His final posts can be read on http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qoixk/a_lot_of_trolls_tonight/ Looking through it I get the sense that people were trying to reach out and tried to persuade him from killing himself. TFA makes it sound as though everyone was cheering him on. Those few who trolled got severely downvoted. I can't see how reddit nor its users are in any way responsible for his death. Rather seems like his family is out to find a scapegoat. Where were they when he needed help and support?
There's a difference between not doing anything and intentionally making a medical condition worse.
If you're having a severe asthma attack on the street, the decent thing for me to do would be to call an ambulance. Just walking on by is not decent, but it's also not a crime (unless I'm a medical provider). But blowing cigar smoke in your face hoping that I can make your condition worse so that you keel over? That's different.
Depends on the jurisdiction - some places *do* make it illegal to encourage someone to commit suicide.
Clearly you don't suffer from clinical depression. It's a whole different reality from the common human experience. Under such a condition you can easily loose your free will to a great roaring abyss that you clearly don't understand and I hope you never do. That's why people like this need help and are easily coerced into yet darker and colder places. He didn't jump. He was pushed by the growing darkness consuming his mind, rational thought, and free will.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Christ.. another "there ought to be a law against (x)", or "(x) ought to be a crime"? Seriously, there are too many of your types out there screwing things up already. We keep making dumb laws that have rather nasty unforeseen consequences because some people get their panties in a twist over some distasteful, "deviant", or irksome behavior.
Yeah, those guys were assholes. They showed a severe lack of humanity and empathy. They are worthy of criticizing, shunning, and shaming. But that doesn't mean it should become illegal to be an unsavory prick. Putting people in prison because they are assholes hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is bullshit.
Not posting AC because I'm a real man.
Now that was just rude. I'm going to kill myself and then sue you for it.
It looks like the guy being sued (AlyoshaV) simply didn't read the post till the end (where the suicide note was), and commented on partial post with some stupid joke.
Had he read the post till the end, the suit could be avoided (probably not the suicide).
This should be an important message to all slashdotters: always read all posts in their entirety before commenting. Always RTFA thoroughly till the very end, or you could be the next murderer.
Really? You can't see any way somebody shouting, "I'm gonna kill myself, I'm gonna kill myself," while perched on a 10th floor ledge actually jumping to their death could be, in any way, related to a crowd of fuckwads on the ground laughing, pointing, and shouting, "Jump! Jump you faggot!"? The presence of a crowd of people who are not only not concerned, but are actively encouraging the person to kill themselves - and you don't think that might have a negative influence on their receptiveness to a counselor trying to talk them off the ledge? You see no way it could actually confirm the feelings that have led them to that situation in the first place?
I guess the GIFT has more supporting evidence.
Comments on Reddit point out that
-- This has happened before in other places with a fake sister
-- the suicide was committed by jumping off a building, while the user threatened to commit suicide by shooting himself
-- the suicide happened several days after the nasty replies were deleted
-- the user's real name was supposedly Jerry, but the name of the man who killed himself was William.
Furthermore, carefully reading the Reddit link itself, Reddit has not received a subpoena. Rather, Reddit has been *told by the supposed sister of the user* that they *will be subpoenaed* in the future; at no point does Reddit claim to have actually received the subpoena. As a bonus, the man's supposed sister claims "We were told by our lawyer not to give any other information out such as our full names or the people to be named in the lawsuit", which makes her claims immune to verification.
It's quite likely that some troll saw a suicide in the newspaper and decided to claim that the suicide was connected when they were really just trolling. Ruling that out would require having the subpoena, not just having a claim that one was sent.
Asthama is a physical condition. Laws deal with physical harm, not mental harm to adults. No one cares about anyone's feelings and the law shouldn't care either. Adults are expected to take care of their own brains.
By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no fuckin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil fuckin' presence. -- Bill Hicks
Thank goodness Bill isn't around to see this sad shit...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
"Jerry had a fairly troubled past, and had been suicidial before those final few days of his life," Sandy said. "His ex-wife, who is the mother of his disabled 20 year old daugther, took a lot of his money for support and never let Jerry see his daughter.
What I'd like to know is how can 9 assholes on reddit saying "right on, do it" be more responsible for his depression-fueled suicide than that woman. Honestly, I can't comprehend that line of "reasoning".
If I'm remembering right, you can make a Reddit username by supplying the desired name and a password. Good luck attaching that to an individual person.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
> Putting people in prison because they are assholes hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is bullshit.
Those are some strong words. That sentiment is also backward. The statements were knowingly made and potentially harmful. If a person can be prosecuted for sitting on a bench alongside another person (reddit or any open forum) then telling that person (who may be of limited capacity - minor, mentally handicapped or ignorant) to do something dangerous, this is simply an extension of existing societal controls. The bar for "fair" is set for the lowest common denominator. Welcome to the world.
The initiative for responsible browsing and "not trusting the internet" has failed and there's nothing anyone can do about it. The last 5 years or so it's become pretty clear that the internet is a primary form of communication for a large and growing portion of humanity and people are not good at filtering. Maybe I live in a bizarro world. Deal with the culture or deny it. Won't change the reality.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
Suicide is a personal choice, not anyone else's. I don't see why everyone always tries to blame bullies, commenters, family, etc.
Regardless of if it's a rational decision or not it's my own choice, just like robbing a bank is my fault.
Do I get to blame commenters urging me to commit other crimes too?
It's an analogy....
There are numerous laws dealing with mental and emotional duress so yes, this is an area of law.
Someone who is capable of committing suicide cannot "take care of their own brain". Knowingly harassing someone in such a condition and causing them to carry out the suicide is at best manslaughter due to gross negligence.
Obviously if someone had a gun to their own head, was in clear duress and you encouraged them to pull the trigger you would be going to jail (a good lawyer could perhaps even make a case for premeditated murder-by-suicide if you had motive). The Reddit case is a little more complicated since (due to internet) the defendants would have had difficulty gauging the seriousness of the situation. Due to the murkiness there, a wrongful death civil case would be appropriate.
4chan keeps the ip addresses of everyone who posts, and they let the FBI know when something like this is happening, same with terrorism threats and people who post child pornography.
I'm posting AC because I wear a pink tie.