Slashdot Mirror


Why Your IT Spending Is About To Hit the Wall

CowboyRobot writes "For decades, rapid increases in storage, processor speed, and bandwidth have kept up with the enormous increases in computer usage. That could change however, as consumption finally outpaces the supply of these resources. It is instructive to review the 19th-century Economics theory known as Jevons Paradox. Common sense suggests that as efficiencies rise in the use of a resource, the consumption goes down. Jevons Paradox posits that efficiencies actually drive up usage, and we're already seeing examples of this: our computers are faster than ever and we have more bandwidth than ever, yet our machines are often slow and have trouble connecting. The more we have, the even more we use."

41 of 301 comments (clear)

  1. I know what you're talking about by SpaceCadetTrav · · Score: 5, Funny

    Despite technological advancements, it takes forever for Slashdot to load on my phone.

    1. Re:I know what you're talking about by MachDelta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, they broke^h^h^h^h^h^h improved the comment system a while ago. In the name of progress, of course.

    2. Re:I know what you're talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      In light of technological advanvements, better bottlenecks are being implemented.

    3. Re:I know what you're talking about by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which shows it isn't the OS or the hardware, its the networks. i have to wonder if the whole "buffer problem" we've been reading about here is about to hit the tipping point as it seems like everything now has big fat buffers built in and as we know the Internet model simply wasn't designed for having large buffers throw the timing all to hell.

      Personally I think it is high time we use an old solution to fix a new problem...bring back the WPA. a lot of our bandwidth problems would disappear if we had nationwide FTTH or at least fiber to the neighborhood. It seems like a great way to put all those sitting at home on unemployment to work and you build it right and just as many bridges built by the WPA in rural areas still work fine so too could a well built fiber network last us for ages. this would also give us the benefits of new businesses springing up to make use of this new resource and finally kill the duopolies that have been hamstringing growth in so many areas of the country because the lines would be open to competition.

      I truly believe if we don't do something radical like bring back the WPA we will end up staying on the short bus to the info superhighway because the corps can make more money by throttling and cherry picking than by actually growing their businesses and in our short sighted corp climate the quarterly reports are all that matters. i know that even though my home town has grown by more than a third neither the cable nor DSL has moved an inch in a good decade or more. They would rather just add caps and sit on the big wads of money than actually add new customers. If we don't change this situation we are gonna end up being left behind so its high time we put those unemployed to work building us a new broadband infrastructure.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    4. Re:I know what you're talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No it's not the networks, it's the morons in charge of the content.

      Slashdot should load 10X faster than it does, but the uneducated developers and designers put in a lot of crap that is not needed to add in "pretty" that does not add to the content at all.

      So slashdot now takes over 10X in bandwidth and processing power to deliver the same content it did 8 years ago. All so I can gave some web 2.0 crap that does nothing at all.

      But it's not just slashdot. ALL websites are bum rushing the add more crap idea. Facebook takes 10X longer to load from 5 years ago, CNN, ESPN, etc.. all of them have went from hiring competent people that understand that adding more data to send to the viewer is bad , to a bunch of morons that use every JS toolkit known to man so I download 40mb of libraries before the page loads. Some JS is useful. Good programmers put in the libraries only what is needed, posers put in the whole damn library. This same trend is on Desktops and phones. android and IOS suffer from this as well.

      It is about to hit the wall because low paid low skill developers are what companies hire compared to highly skilled people that will do it right.

    5. Re:I know what you're talking about by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > But it's not just slashdot.

      No it isn't. If the average visitor isn't impacted the devels don't care. But if the average user were impacte dthey would. Which is the problem with the concept under discussion. The belief that bloat MUST be therefore there being nothing that can be done we are all doomed to spend ourselves into poverty fighting a problem that will never exist.

      Because as soon as it becomes a problem, suddenly the average pageview will suddenly be able to shrink in half without impacting usability at all and if that doesn't do it it can cut in half again with minimal impact. And it isn't just webpages, most everything suffers the same bloating. Does a simple little game that was a 50K download on Palm OS really need to be a 1MB app on Android or iOS? Nope. But because users don't care the developers don't care either. And again, if the first part of that statement changes you can bet yer butt the second one will.

      Short version: This is a self correcting non-problem.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    6. Re:I know what you're talking about by crutchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      of course everyone loves eye candy, even at the expense of usability and stability

    7. Re:I know what you're talking about by crutchy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      programmers can keep trying to make their software idiot-proof, but society will forever continue making better idiots

    8. Re:I know what you're talking about by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "No it's not the networks, it's the morons in charge of the content."

      In many ways I must agree. I have strenuously protested many of the changes made to Slashdot over the last couple of years, which have seemed to add nothing substantial to usability, and instead have added overhead and time, and actually made it MORE difficult to use.

    9. Re:I know what you're talking about by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Does a simple little game that was a 50K download on Palm OS really need to be a 1MB app on Android or iOS?

      Depends on the app. If we're talking about an all-text game, that's a little extreme. On the other hand, if it contains any image assets at all, that is probably not unreasonable.

      Remember that the original Palm hardware had 240 x 160 resolution in black and white. A current-generation iPhone has 960 x 640 resolution in 24-bit color, and it is usually bundled as dual-platform for iPad, which is 2048 x 1536 in 24-bit color. So if that 50k app on Palm were nothing but uncompressed image data, you would expect the iPad/iPhone version of the app to be a whopping 96 megabytes.

      Obviously image compression helps with that, and obviously an app contains content other than image assets, both of which contribute to that being something of an overestimate. That said, using that as an upper bound, a mere one megabyte doesn't sound bad at all.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    10. Re:I know what you're talking about by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately his plan was to turn-off free TV (all channels 25 and up) and turn it over to wireless companies. That's not a solution... at least not as good as Fiber to every home.

      It's a fundamentally unworkable solution to the problem. The reason we don't have enough capacity is not because we need more bandwidth. The reason we don't have enough capacity is that we're trying to use one tower every 15-30 miles to provide service to hundreds of thousands of people. If those folks are mostly using it occasionally (as they do with cell phones), it works reasonably well. When they're sitting there for hours on end surfing the Internet at home or work, it breaks down very badly. We're orders of magnitude away from being able to handle that.

      Wireless works really well at short distances where each cell is talking to dozens of people (e.g. Wi-Fi). The larger the number of people per cell, the more infeasible it becomes due to interference from other devices, not to mention all the multipath problems inherent in wireless delivery over long distances. Even if you could make the bandwidth ten thousand times wider, we still wouldn't have enough bandwidth to service every man, woman, and child's home Internet needs somewhere like New York or San Francisco using cell towers. It's entirely the wrong solution to to the problem.

      Instead, we should be focusing on making VoIP and VPNs roam transparently between cellular services and Wi-Fi, roam transparently between multiple Wi-Fi hot spots, etc. And we should be moving more towards providing free public Wi-Fi services at high densities so that only the last few feet are wireless.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:I know what you're talking about by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry I didn't elaborate but I have been accused of making posts too long so i try to shorten my responses. what i meant was not ONLY for the WPA to be running FTTH, and as i said even FTTN would be a huge improvement in MANY areas, but there is so much infrastructure that can be made a thousand times better. just look at our roads and bridges, many are from Ike's time. We have also seen there IS a way to build a road so it will really last, just look at the Autobahn, but you have to lay a really solid foundation and build up.

      I think we can use a modern WPA to truly transform this country into the vision that many of us were shown as kids in the 60s, with truly modern roads that don't break easily, could have embedded sensors for future driverless cars, bridges replaced with better designs, and of course by building FTTH or FTTN depending on the size of the area to help bring tele-education and telecommute to the masses.

      As a final change I would toss this electric car nonsense as the battery tech isn't there yet and instead build a true "people's car" which would be both a 2 door and 4 door model that had a 4 cyl and gets 40MPG for less than $10k. We would then offer a cash for clunkers style program so that all the working poor could trade in those old gas hogs for a much better vehicle for the environment.

      with these changes I think we could lick unemployment and modernize our country for the future while at the same time lowering our dependence on gas from overseas and at the same time actually creating jobs for all those out of work. sadly though it requires vision and will, two things our politicians seem to have little to none of ATM.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    12. Re:I know what you're talking about by HarrySquatter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, it had plenty of bugs before the Ajax rewrite. Like the longstanding pagination bugs that they eventually just gave up on.

    13. Re:I know what you're talking about by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Considering the assets required to not have the game look like shit at native resolution compared to the low-res Palms, yes.

      Oh you 20th Century primitives with your stacks of bitmaps at every possible resolution. Scalable art is where it is at. And it also tends to be smaller than even a single bitmap. But that gets back to my original point, so long as there isn't a price to be paid for being ignorant nobody will bother going to the trouble of changing ways that worked well originally. In the old days throwing a fixed resolution bitmap at the problem was the simple and best solution, and this was adapted to the new problem of multiple resolution displays by simply packing multiple versions of all art because it was the easy fix requiring the least change in thinking. And if it bloats, who cares; yet.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
  2. There are two schools of thought by bigredradio · · Score: 5, Funny

    From my own observations, there are two schools of thought.

    1. People who think anything older than 6 months is ancient and obsolete.
    2. People who say, "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

    Seems the former spend their time fixing things and the later spend time bitching about "damn kids" and their lawns.

    1. Re:There are two schools of thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      not really. seems the former are a bunch of fucking idiots constantly tampering with shit that doesn't need tampering with (gnome 3, anyone? unity?), while the latter are either refreshingly pragmatic, or, as you say, tedious old farts resisting progress for the sake of pretending to be smart (windows xp, anyone?)

      my view is fuck the both of them, and there must be a third school of thought. however, i'm too tired and drunk to think what it might be.

    2. Re:There are two schools of thought by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      and you forget those of us in the middle. we buy the 6 month old gear for $0.10 o nthe dollar off of ebay and get to use higher end gear from the used market for lower price.

      No company needs 1000bt for the accounting and sales department. But there is always some moron IT guy out there that thinks they do so they scrap all their perfect 100bt gear. and I snap it up for nothign and sell it to small businesses for a profit.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:There are two schools of thought by Eristone · · Score: 4, Informative

      No company needs 1000bt for the accounting and sales department. But there is always some moron IT guy out there that thinks they do so they scrap all their perfect 100bt gear. and I snap it up for nothign and sell it to small businesses for a profit.

      I see you aren't using more recent accounting and CRM/ERP packages and don't have people pushing multi-megabyte PowerPoint and video presentations around. (or in my case - Sales pushing around vm images of a couple gig) Or people moving between desks from other parts of the company. That moron IT guy that replaces everything with 1000bt gear is sitting there going "There. Now I don't have to worry which switch the conference rooms are plugged into or if the head of HR and the CEO snag someone's office so that person goes to an empty desk to do something... "

    4. Re:There are two schools of thought by HapSlappy_2222 · · Score: 5, Funny

      My lawn's obsolete! Fix it, you damn kids!

    5. Re:There are two schools of thought by rev0lt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most "modern" (3 year old and newer) machines do have Gigabit connectors, so why not use them? On local networks, there are several advantages:

      1) reduced latency (someone else has mentioned it) - it really helps a lot some applications;
      2) less time loading roaming profiles / less time spent refreshing network shares;
      3) increased bandwidth (even at 100Mbit) - Gigabit gear is usually more error-resistant, and implement smarter and faster error correction;
      4) inter-departament high-speed sychronization - good for replicating storage, machine snapshotting/CDP, distributed filesystems and such;
      5) instant 10x speed upgrade on recent infrastructure, since 1000T is Cat5-based (no scrapping except the switches)

      My internet connection alone has 120Mbps downstream. And yes, I use it.

  3. Your mileage is not my mileage by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As we in the military, research university, and government spheres move to IPv6 and Internet So Fast It Makes Your Ears Bleed (tm), have you ever considered that perhaps it might be slow for you but not for us?

    I mean 1000 Gbps is considered normal here, and some of us are running on faster connections, using less energy total to do the same thing.

    We rarely print things anymore, and just because you have slower access to resources, you have to realize it could be because, in the war between Urban America and the rest of the country, Urban America with its more efficient energy usage and lower distances traveled - basically won the war.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Your mileage is not my mileage by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... you have to realize it could be because, in the war between Urban America and the rest of the country, Urban America with its more efficient energy usage and lower distances traveled - basically won the war.

      Good. Then you can eat all the Internet you want. We'll keep the food.

      Yours Truly,

      Rural America

      (I'd expand this comment but it takes a long time to get stuff uploaded on our 300 baud lines.)

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Your mileage is not my mileage by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Urban America with its more efficient energy usage and lower distances traveled - basically won the war."

      Until the power goes out. then I own you with my farm and it's source of food you dont have.

      rural america will always rule urban america. You cant raise cows in central park.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Your mileage is not my mileage by wmbetts · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good luck feeding a country like that.

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
    4. Re:Your mileage is not my mileage by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have to ask at 1000 Gbps are your hard drives even able to write that fast ? That's 125 Gigabytes per second, 500 MB/s is pretty good for an SSD. Also, what are you doing that requires that kind of speed?

      We have 8 blade servers with SSDs, each blade keeps most data in DDR3.

      What are we doing? Medical and statistical research. You should see some of the protein folding units.

      DDR3-1600 will give you a peak transfer rate of around 13GB/second. You can get higher throughput by interleaving across banks, but the Xeon 7560 (for example) will peak at around 15GB/sec

      PCIe Gen-3 x8 will deliver around 8GB/second.

      The fastest interconnect I've seen on a blade chassis has 10Gbit ports.

      Are you sure that "1000 Gbps is considered normal here"?

    5. Re:Your mileage is not my mileage by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Urban America ever stopped providing tax money to Rural America

      ...Urban America would starve to death within a week, while...


      the rioters in the farmlands would run out of gas money in minutes.

      ...The Farmers wouldn't notice for about a month. They buy diesel in bulk and store it in 500-5000 gallon on-site tanks. And while the foreign oil may arrive via barge to NYH and the parasites at the CME take their cut right off the top, the refineries have more to do with "rural" than "urban" as well (though more because no one wants to live near them than location).

      Cities do share resources more efficiently than rural areas. But "more efficient" doesn't actually mean "self sustaining" - That farmer, while sucking 1000x as much energy per acre than the Manhattanite, wouldn't notice if NYC vanished tomorrow. The opposite doesn't hold true.

  4. slow where by magarity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My work Pc is slow and has trouble connecting because of the n layers of Corp security whatnot. My home Pc is reasonably fast and always connects quickly.

    1. Re:slow where by jrminter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ding ding ding - we have a winner. Our IT folks put so much crapware on our corporate image, that I had to take all my lab computers out of the domain and run vanilla installs w/ minimal antivirus and our imaging hardware/software. Makes a BIG difference.

  5. Lots more than just CPU and transfer resistors... by mlts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IT is a lot more than just CPU and the amount of little switches on a die. Yes, those get better and continue to do so, but there are a lot of bottlenecks that are not going away anytime soon. Until these are dealt with, things will stay almost the same in the IT world.

    Couple examples:

    1: Wireless bandwidth fees. This has gotten worse as time progresses. Two years ago, my T-Mobile CLIQ had unlimited tethering. Now, if I want to transfer 500 gigs of data, I'd have to pay my provider over five digits for that month.

    2: Regular bandwidth. A year ago, bandwidth might be throttled on P2P downloads. Now it is metered as well on most ISPs.

    3: Backups. The enterprise has the advantage that once they pay for the LTO-5 tape drives, individual cartridges are cheap, rugged, and have a lifetime guarentee. Individuals usually don't have the cash for the drive, so have to deal with hard disks which usually have a year warranty, and there is no consumer level software to handle backups, where it knows where a specific revision of a file is on what volume, be it a primary volume, or a copy saved in a safe deposit box somewhere. The enterprise has NetBackup, TSM, Networker, and other items. So, there is a major issue with making sure data is saved safely for anyone who can't afford to stick an EMC VNX array in their garage.

    In the past, tape drives were not just affordable by consumers, and kept up with hard disks, but usually had some decent software that could help find media in case of a disaster. These days, there are not any good consumer level backup utilities, especially ones that can restore bare-metal.

    4: Encryption. As grows storage grows the need to protect the data from everything from tapes falling off the pickup truck to hard disk drives getting yanked out of arrays.

    Just raw CPU power may help things, but that is more incremental than anything else. Right now, IT is more affected by the BYOD trend than it would be by any CPU revolution. What would stir the pot would be bandwidth increases that don't have corresponding fee hikes. Having the ability to have fiber-channel bandwidth over the WAN fabric on the cheap would revolutionize things.

  6. Re:How things change, how they stay the same by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its still all you ever needed its just not all you'd ever want.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  7. Two no three major flaws with this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. Computer hardware is not a finite resource like coal is or any other natural resource. Prices go up; somebody build a plant to make more. Econ 101.

    2. This assumes that computer hardware will be used the same way as it has been in the past. We are already seeing major changes. Less individual storage and more online storage; different devices that are less hardware intensive and computing is being used differently - less desktop and more handheld and all the differences down the chain from that.

    3. No mention of significant technology changes. Who's to say will still be using the current architectures or even silicon tech in the future. This assumes the same old same old for the future.

  8. That was the stupidest thing I've read in a while. by Brannon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not even sure where to start other than to say--technology is only ever adopted broadly if it is cost-effective to do so. The printing press wasn't successful because of some incontrovertible march of progress--it was successful because it was cheaper to make books that way than by having monks transcribe them by hand. Yes, that caused more people to read which drove up the demand for books. And I'm sure some jackass back then wrote an article saying that demand for books was accelerating at a rate that we weren't going to be able to afford enough printing presses anymore.

  9. Human perception by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are limits to what will be demanded, and we have reached them in some areas already. Audio is a good example of this. The storage and bandwidth requirements for good (as in good enough for 99% of the population) audio is now a very small drop in the bucket. How many songs can you fit on a 16 GB micro SD card the size of your fingernail? How many songs can you stream real-time at once on a typical broadband connection? We have surpassed the technical requirements for audio by such a massive margin that it isn't even a consideration when purchasing hardware or bandwidth.

    There are limits to video too. These so-called "retina" displays are a good example of the resolution limit of the human eye (we passed the color depth perception limit a good decade ago). The eye cannot discern individual pixels within the normal focal range (by the time you bring it close enough to the eye to make out individual pixels, the eye can no longer keep it in focus). We have a long ways to go to be able to store and stream video at such high resolution. However we will reach it before too long. Then it's a matter of how many hours / days of video do you need to store on how small of a device, and how many video streams do you need at one time over your internet connection.

    One day we'll be moving and storing movie-length retina-resolution video with the same flippant ease as MP3s today. When we've reached that point, what would we need more bandwidth and storage for? Not for anything by human consumption - and that is the key factor.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  10. IT spending dropping dramatically by DogDude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In our company, IT spending is actually dropping, even as we expand. The cost of used hardware is insanely low because of all of the individuals and companies who still feel the need to buy "new" equipment so rapidly. We have no problems running Pentium 4's and Windows XP throughout our business, and wil do so for the foreseeable future.. We've moved our email/backup/web hosting services out to providers, and all of that is sill insanely cheap. Tech has actually exceeded our needs, so our IT spending has dropped significantly. Keep buying new machines every few years, people! We're loving buying your completely functional equipment at yard sale prices!

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  11. Peak Computing? by slew · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I gather what this article is speculating on, it's a phenomena similar to peak-oil.

    Peak-oil doesn't necessarily mean that you run-out of oil, it just means that the marginal cost of producing more oil reaches a point which causes the rate of oil production to decrease. In the backdrop of increasing demand, and limited supply this implies a sharp downturn in availability of oil at historical prices.

    If applied to computing, it would imply a limit to computing resources. I don't think we are there (although computing takes lots of electrical power and there seems to be enough semiconductor manufacturing capacity for the moment), but we may be at a point where demand increases beyond the rate at which technology can keep it on its historical increasing MIP/$ trend. If this MIP/$ trend flattens out, it may be difficult to find funding for new technological advances and fundamentally change the market for computing.

  12. Bloated apps. by toonces33 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It isn't so much that users are expecting more from the apps, but that application vendors bloat their software as time goes on so that newer versions really only run on newer and faster hardware. I won't point fingers too much - there are many offenders here.

    And on top of that, the industry is using more Java which is as slow as snot. The attitude seems to be that if it runs slow, then throw some more iron at it.

    I remember my first Linux box - i486 at about 90MHz. Those were the days..

  13. hello self licking ice cream cone by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I read the headline for this story and laughed - it doesn't matter how much faster my computers or networks get - Our IT department just installs more and more virus scanners, software maintenance tools, firewalls, monitoring tools ,etc.... Each computer I get has more CPU cores and memory and faster graphics and they are able to do less and less and take longer and longer to boot. I figure before too long I'll have to go back to my old TI-30 calculator and some engineering graph paper and I'll be equal in efficiency to my computer once I factor in all the time I spend waiting for it to get around to sparing .5% of the 12 CPU cores to run the actual software I need to use....

  14. Zoning code by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    Urban farming is enjoying a renaissance.

    Good luck getting zoning boards in all cities to agree to allow urban farming. Some cities have even been waging war on vegetable gardens.

  15. Rest Assured by tunapez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away.

    --
    Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
  16. Better Idiots? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    I always suspect I'd be learning something new whenever I visit /.

    Thank you for proving it

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  17. Tinfoil hat time by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Europe is full of small, cheap, fuel efficient cars. Your problem is that there was a size and power war on American roads. While I would feel perfectly safe driving a Fiat 500 Twinair or its equivalent around most of Europe, I would be terrified driving it in the US. By the time European designs make it to the USA, they seem to be carrying around a third of a tonne of additional padding and reinforcement to protect against rednecks in light trucks or middle class mothers talking on the phone in their main battle tanks. It will take a long, long time for the USA light vehicle fleet to get down to sensible sizes.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."