TSA Tests Automated ID Authentication

CowboyRobot writes "Last year, a Nigerian man boarded a plane from N.Y. to L.A. using an invalid ID and a boarding pass issued to another person. A week later he was caught again with 10 expired boarding passes. In response to this and similar events, the Transportation Security Administration has begun testing a new system at Washington's Dulles International Airport that verifies an air traveler's identity by matching photo IDs to boarding passes and ensures that boarding passes are authentic. The test will soon be expanded to Houston and Puerto Rico."

Comments

a first

[zlives]

sign of sensibility from TSA... the world will end in 2012

Re:a first

[Jason Levine]

What they haven't announced yet is, for the automated system to work, you first step into a room where a bunch of robotic arms probe your various orifices as painfully as possible. Then, for no apparent reason, you are hit with a high dose of radiation. If you oppose this sensible security measure, clearly you support the terrorists!

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, to be honest, after all the security theater bullshit we get from the TSA these days, this actually sounds like a pretty decent idea. I mean, a decent idea in the sense of "why exactly WEREN'T we doing this to begin with?", but still...

Re:a first

[interval1066]

They'll never use automation, no sport in it.

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
Those who deny individual rights cannot
claim to be defenders of minorities."
- Ayn Rand

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

This is precisely why America is going down the crapper. It's all well and good to extoll the virtues of individuality, but at some point you have to take one for the team, holding up everything because only 99.99999% of the people want to do something really just represents a tyranny by the minority.

Also, it's disgusting of you to coopt that particular Martin Niemöller to mean something different from what it was originally intended.

I agree that the TSA is a disgusting abuse of power, but you're comparing the rounding up and persecution of specific groups against one where most people can and are affected. The more appropriate comparison would be with the treatment of Arabs and Muslims following 9/11.

Re:a first

[Goocifer]

Sensibility would be just having it in place where it happened - we all know all the world's phonies come from L.A.

Re:a first

[Goocifer]

99.99999% of people never want to do anything the same way. America is going down the crapper because anyone who can subjugate individual rights will do so while acting like some stock footage of 1% of the population is 99.99999% of the population - add all the 1%'s up in the worst manner possible for Human rights, and you have us.

Re:a first

[guises]

Given that you're already ID'd when you get your boarding pass this isn't a new outrage, I don't see this as positive news though. It's a reminder that we seem to have permanently ceded our right to travel anonymously, and put up hardly any fuss about it in the process.

Re:a first

[mrmeval]

No, it's a sign of institutional stupidity they're trying to compensate for. What is different between ID in the US and in Israel?

What the goal will become is biometrics regardless of how flawed that is.

TSA is more about terror than what they claim to be preventing.

Re:a first

[Idarubicin]

I don't know what's more disappointing--that you put Martin Niemöller up next to Ayn Rand and pretended that those quotes pulled out of context belong side by side, or that someone with mod points didn't know better than to tag your post as 'Insightful'.

Rand's philosophy embraced selfishness as its highest ideal.

Re:a first

[EdIII]

They're trying to come up with a better name than The Probulator.

Also, every 1 in 100,000 test subjects has a testicle "popped" for no apparent reason (TSA of course says it is 1 in 10,000,000).

Re:a first

[TubeSteak]

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
Those who deny individual rights cannot
claim to be defenders of minorities."
- Ayn Rand

I believe this statement ignores the possibility that the individual may be discriminated against for traits they share with other individuals who, collectively, do not make up a plurality or simple majority of the population.

That or it's a logically necessary starting point for Randian philosphy to work.
I'm inclined to suspect it's the latter, since Randian philosophy is full of assumptions that don't quite match the reality of human behavior.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Didn't Rand hate unions and think Communists were evil?

Re:a first

[interval1066]

Too bad you can't see past her nonsense to the truth in those words.

Re:a first

[jaymemaurice]

But what is truth when taken out of context?!

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

No matter what the context it was said in is, the truth of it remains the same. The words themselves are still true, just like 1 + 1 = 2 will always be true.

Re:a first

[cgenman]

Don't forget: The system only costs 5 million dollars per gateway, per year.

If we only put this much effort into curing heart disease, we'd probably save a life or two.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't Rand hate unions and think Communists were evil?

Does that mean they shouldn't have rights? I hate racists, but I would still defend their right to free speech.

Re:a first

[TubeSteak]

Does that mean they shouldn't have rights? I hate racists, but I would still defend their right to free speech.

Rand would not support unions' rights.
She would actively oppose their existence.

And she thought Communist ideology was evil.
Like... her whole ideology was formed as a counterpoint to Soviet communisim.
I'm not sure where I was going with that point, but I doubt she'd have kicked up much of a fuss if anyone collectively went after the communists.

The moral of this story is twofold:
1. Randian philosophy isn't very useful as a governing ideology and
2: you shouldn't mix your aphorisms.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct answer is "misunderstood truth", which is not as good as "understood truth", and pretty much just as bad as "untruth". You fail.

Re:a first

[Joce640k]

sign of sensibility from TSA... the world will end in 2012

Not really. There's no sign that he was a threat to the safety of the aircraft, he's just an asshole doing illegal stuff.

The 'S' part of the TSA stands for 'safety'. They're not there to enforce laws.

Re:a first

[Joce640k]

Ummm ... I always assumed a suicide bomber would have a valid ID and matching boarding pass. It's not difficult.

This grand announcement is just another huge pile of TSA theater.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Fail? I was simply stating a fact: either the words are true or they aren't. They are true in this context, too. It doesn't matter what the original was. The point is still valid.

and pretty much just as bad as "untruth"

So something that is true is the exact same thing as something that is false? Either they're true or they aren't. Make up your mind.

If I take those words, and I apply them to a different scenario than which they were originally used in, and they're still true, then obviously they're still true. This is not difficult to comprehend. It makes sense even in this context.

Re:a first

[AK Marc]

In this context, it means "If you don't support my right to do whatever I want, then you are a racist" Thanks, but I don't need that insight. One can be a defender of the downtrodden without pushing the agenda of the privileged, even if Ayn Rand says otherwise.

Re:a first

[Raved Thrad]

Ummm ... I always assumed a suicide bomber would have a valid ID and matching boarding pass.

Nonono, that's not it. The reason for matching ID to boarding pass is NOT to determine whether or not you're a terrorist. It's so that they can properly catalogue the video of them strip-searching you and then shoving an anal probe up your ass.

Re:a first

[JWSmythe]

    Did you see the price tag on it??

    I never understood why they didn't tie in the TSA checkpoint with state DMV and ICE.

Does the photo on the ID handed to you look like the photo on the screen? Yes/No

Does the name on the ID handed to you match the name on the screen? Yes/No

Does the name on the boarding pass match the name on the ID? Yes/No

Does the airline ticketing system information match the boarding pass as provided? Yes/No

If any questions were answered with a "No", separate the person for further evaluation.

Years ago, someone demonstrated that they could print up first class boarding passes to get through the TSA checkpoint in the preferred travelers line. It didn't do any good getting on a plane, but it got them into the secure area with no hassles. The TSA has no method for checking that a boarding pass is legitimate. Right in the airport. Where every ticket agent has access to the information already. {sigh}

All US states now have photographs on their drivers license. 13 states allow for an exemption due to religious beliefs.

Foreign nationals entering the US have to show their passport. Recording the ID at the checkpoint is trivial, and is probably being done already.

So, if you plan to get on a plane, you probably have a photo on file, that can be retrieved electronically.

I found out that my state not only has my most recent photo on file, but particular departments can get every drivers license photo I've ever had electronically and virtually instantaneously. That is, it took longer to type my name, than for my pictures to load. I would have said BS, but they were kind enough to turn the screen so I could see it. Our licenses for the last few years have printed. They had photos from years ago where the license was hand typed and laminated with a photo in it.

I don't quite understand how all federal law enforcement departments don't already have access to this information, other than the fact that our entire country is a clusterfuck of bureaucracy. They've had over a decade to fight it out, where it shouldn't have taken more than a few months to agree upon the terms, and maybe another year to implement.

Re:a first

[dave420]

If you preface that with "Assume, in this numerical system, that 2 = 17,000", your assertion becomes false.

Re:a first

[dave420]

As long as the US remains a target for terrorists, you either give up all hints of safety while travelling, or you have to *sniff* tell people who you are. Big fucking deal.

Re:a first

[Tacvek]

    Did you see the price tag on it??

    I never understood why they didn't tie in the TSA checkpoint with state DMV and ICE.

Does the photo on the ID handed to you look like the photo on the screen? Yes/No

Does the name on the ID handed to you match the name on the screen? Yes/No

Does the name on the boarding pass match the name on the ID? Yes/No

Does the airline ticketing system information match the boarding pass as provided? Yes/No

If any questions were answered with a "No", separate the person for further evaluation.

Nice, but you forgot one important step there. Namely:

Does the photo on the ID match the person presenting it? Yes/No

That and the fact they they had the ID in their possession are the only things that tie the person to the claimed identity.

But yes, that is a far more sane idea for improving security than almost anything the TSA has done.

The real reason that this is not being done might be that the TSA is not a law enforcement agency. Thus it is possible if not plausible that one or more states would not permit them electronic access to DMV (or BMV, as the case may be) records. State law may reserve that ability for law-enforcement (and the DMV itself), leaving only printouts or quarterly data dumps.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

I never understood why they didn't tie in the TSA checkpoint with state DMV and ICE...All US states now have photographs on their drivers license.

A database allowing the federal government to get that information was part of the RealID act. Everybody threw a fit, and HOLY SHIT, RIGHTLY SO. Roughly half the states are refusing to cooperate.

Re:a first

[rwise2112]

From Futurama:

"Well, at least here you'll be treated with dignity. Now strip naked and get on the probulator."

Re:a first

[gnapster]

The 'S' part of the TSA stands for 'safety'. They're not there to enforce laws.

What? No, it doesn't. TSA abbreviates Transportation Security Administration. The Nigerian may not have been malicious, but he demonstrated a security hole. Patching it is ostensibly within their remit. Am I missing something?

Re:a first

[Martin Blank]

I get most of my boarding passes from my computer. It's delivered in HTML, which I can easily edit and view, changing the date to a different one and getting through security because they don't check the validity of the pass. Several people have done this, including some reporters. It's a significant gap, one that can be easily closed with almost no issue for the traveler, and one that makes a lot more sense than the 3oz rule, the shoe rule, or the scanning rule.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

No. No I don't have to choose between giving up all hints of safety or losing the ability to travel anonymously.

I flew commercially yesterday, and after being guilty until proven innocent while waiting in a line for fifteen minutes and being yelled at for leaving chap stick in my pocket during my naked body scan, I think I'll take dealing with a bit of a chance of terrorism to get rid of the security theater and obvious terrorist target that is the TSA checkpoint.

I couldn't help but think how hilarious it will be to see how the TSA spins the first suicide bombing at a TSA checkpoint, and yet how it might end up making commercial air travel less insane... then again, it's the TSA, and they'll just figure out a way to make it more of a pain in the ass.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Not telling people who you are is giving up all hints of safety? Get fucking real.

Re:a first

[guises]

Gap in what, exactly? The method you give could be used to defraud the airline, getting on an expensive flight for the cost of a cheap one. Protecting against this means verifying the boarding pass though, it has nothing to do with the identity of the customer.

Can you describe a situation where knowing the identity of the person flying would be important? I reckon they exist, I just can't think of any.

Re:a first

[Agent0013]

The words themselves are still true, just like 1 + 1 = 2 will always be true.

I only see a person who is not very good at thinking things through. 1 + 1 = 10, when in the base 2 numbering system that many people here are quite comfortable with. Plus, I am sure there are other situations where things you think are universal end up being untrue. Look at the angles of a triangle, they supposedly add up to 180 degrees, right? That only holds if the triangle is in a plane, when on the surface of a sphere the angles don't add up to 180 any more.

Re:a first

[Martin Blank]

You can get through security with an altered boarding pass; you can not get on a plane that way without somehow sneaking past the gate. The TSA does not currently validate the boarding pass, but the airline does at the gate. An invalid pass means at the least that you're delayed getting on the plane, and at worst, you're getting arrested on at least counterfeit document charges, if not something far more serious.

There is still one loophole that cannot be closed: the refundable ticket. Say you want to see your significant other off at the gate. You buy a refundable ticket (which is expensive, but you're going to cancel it anyway), go through security, see the other off, call the airline and cancel your ticket, and then go home. That's a different issue which is tougher to address but it's tracked at the airline and probably in the Sabre database. Anyone testing airline security (or seeing off their SO regularly) this way is probably going to get flagged for higher security inspection measures or perhaps declined business (refunds cost time and money for the airlines).

Re:a first

[guises]

Okay... so if I'm reading you correctly you're saying that we need to give up our right to anonymous travel because it makes it easier for airlines to spot people who buy tickets and then return them.

That's a legitimate gripe, to be sure, but it seems like there are other ways it could be prevented. For example, it used to be that you didn't need a boarding pass to get through security - anyone could go through to see off their significant others without buying, and then returning, a ticket as long as they didn't bring any weapons with them. No ID required. In this scenario everyone seems to be getting what they want and no one is being defrauded or denied the right to travel without being tracked.

Re:a first

[Martin Blank]

That's not what I said. Here's where I went in response to your original post that we're identified when we get our boarding pass:

1. Not all boarding passes are accompanied by positive ID, such as when they're printed from a computer at home.
2. Such boarding passes may be modified by altering the HTML and redisplaying locally and then printing. Alternately, they can be altered in a graphical editor.
3. At the moment, boarding passes are not validated by TSA. I just flew last weekend and while they ran my license under a black-light, they just made sure the flight information made sense before sending me through to the scanners.
4. Someone can go--and some people have gone--through security on forged passes. They cannot get on a plane and (theoretically) cannot get proscribed items through, but they can get into the "sterile" area of the airport.
5. Validating the boarding pass, simple enough to do with a barcode scanner, would prevent this hole.
6. The hole that cannot be closed is the use of a refundable ticket that is canceled shortly before the flight departs. Since purchasing activities are tracked, this would probably be flagged if it became a habit, and aside from any security issues, airlines may decline to do business with such people on the basis of financial burden.

I didn't touch on anything about the rights of anyone to travel anonymously before this, and the issue of pass validation is independent of the ID requirement. They want only people who are actually flying to be in the sterile area, and to do so they should be checking that the boarding pass is valid for that day, whether or not a name is attached to it. In fact, it's possible to do so, as you can fly without identification (if you lost it, it was stolen, whatever), though you still have to give name, birth date, etc. You just have to go through more security. Some people have even found this to be a faster way of traveling through certain airports because they go to the front of the line. I actually saw someone do it a few years ago at LAX, getting through in about five minutes after I'd spent more than 20 in line. It used to involve mandatory wanding and pat-down as well as a deeper inspection of both checked and carry-on luggage, so whatever the max is now is probably in place as well.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, the 9/11 terrorist had legitimate ids and valid tickets. They were also carrying legal cutting implements, for the time.

Their act had the advantage of never being done before, but only had a 75% success rate. The 4th plane crashed in a field, when the passengers figured out what was happening. This then tainted hijacking for a long time. Going forward every passenger would assume that a hijacked plane was a death sentence and the passengers would do what ever they could to gain back control.

This is where the bomber came from (much like the car jacker after car alarms became ubiquitous). Now we only have to worry about some person strapping a bomb to their body. Hence the new scanners. The next place is to place the bomb inside their body and then use a cell phone to set it off. That is going to be really hard to scan for.

What is strange is that all a terrorist would have to do is turn on their cell phone and transmit during take or landing and that should crash the plane, according to the crew on every flight I have been on recently.

Re:a first

[chrismcb]

Why is this sensible? Why do we care that his ID matches his boarding pass? My ID doesn't need to match my ticket when I go to the movies, or the ball game, or get on a bus. Why does it need to match when I get on a plane? Why does the TSA care that the boarding pass is valid. The airline should care, and that is it.

Re:a first

[Anonymous Coward]

If you took all TSA staff out of airports, and stationed them between wards in hospitals with handwashing stations, forcing every person who crossed their checkpoint to wash their hands before continuing, you would save orders of magnitude more lives than they do now.

And cost a lot less money.

Re:a first

[JWSmythe]

    Funny thing about your argument.. I happen to work in an industry that does contract to acquire data including DMV information. For the right price, a private company can acquire all the drivers license data, as well as complete history on every vehicle you've ever owned.

    TSA may not be law enforcement, but DHS sure is. With that being true, it would be trivial for them to pass the data back to TSA. It may not be a total dump of all the records into a TSA database. Most likely, the would be live searches against the DHS databases.

    This already happens to a degree. When you book the ticket, your information is cross checked with the DHS "no-fly" database. It's not a large stretch of the imagination to query the DHS databases for drivers license and ICE records.

    What I think is completely nuts is, someone with outstanding warrants can book a ticket and fly to anywhere they'd like. Despite the fact that the identity was checked against the DHS no-fly database, and the passenger passed through a DHS owned and operated checkpoint (TSA random molestation checkpoint), they aren't stopped even for special consideration. Checks against the FBI's NCIC database happen all the time. If you're stopped for a simple speeding ticket, you are checked against NCIC.

    I don't say that as an assumption. I've personally known of people with outstanding warrants who have flown. It's not just a commuter flight in the same state either. One in particular was out on bail pending a felony hearing. They weren't to leave the city. So what'd they do? Traveled back and forth from the US to Europe several times without a single question being raised. The kicker? They were accused of international drug smuggling, via commercial airlines. The case itself wasn't that interesting though. If I gave the details, anyone would say it shouldn't have even been an arrest. Regardless, they were waiting for their time in federal court on the felony charges.

    The only thing that really holds up this whole process is bureaucracy. That, and giving the checkpoint agents any entry level PC with a network connection.

    Rather than utilizing tools that they already have on hand, they find other creative methods to burn up billions of dollars.

    I agree, the piece of paper (or laminated credit card size id) in hand is not secure. It's at least a clue though, and would make it easier for the gate agent to cross check against the database stored information. As it is now, almost anyone with a bit of gear could print up their own drivers license, book a ticket in that name, and pass through what is claimed to be a "sterile" environment. The only way it works is, they don't actually believe anyone is going to do anything malicious.

    It's the illusion of security, or as others say "security theater". It makes the average citizen believe that they are safer, because some random stranger gets to cup your balls, fondle your breasts, or take photos through your clothes. Sometimes 2 of 3 of those. Usually not all 3. :)

Re:a first

[Tacvek]

DHS is not a law enforcement agency. Rather is is a United States federal department. It does contain more federal law enforcement officers than any other branch, but that does not make it a LEA.

The NCIC database is another example. They normally only give access to employees of actual law enforcement agencies (the employes are, however, not required to be law enforcement officers). Thus for the TSA to access it, would require that they used employes of the Federal Air Marshal Service, or get an exception to the usual policy.

What a waste!

[skipkent]

One person did this, and it seems he was caught both times. Wouldn't that mean that the original practices were working? I guess any way to strip our rights and waste money is a good one. Did all of you know there is a clause allowing airports to opt out and use private security firms?? San Francisco, crazy isn't it, is one of the few airports that has used the option; and guess what, the passengers applaud the effort and can't believe how friendly and quick they are.

Re:What a waste!

[the eric conspiracy]

Lots of people do this without getting caught.

http://www.dubfire.net/boarding_pass/

Glad they are closing this loophole, it is one of the very few things the TSA has done or is doing that makes sense.

Re:What a waste!

[zoloto]

The TSA aren't needed at all. This is just a case of making sure those who get on the plane have paid.

Re:What a waste!

[Mr. Underbridge]

One person did this, and it seems he was caught both times. Wouldn't that mean that the original practices were working?

I don't know. How would we know if somebody did it and wasn't caught?

Re:What a waste!

[CohibaVancouver]

it is one of the very few things the TSA has done or is doing that makes sense

Why should you need to present ID to fly? I'm 45 - I remember flying in the 80s to a student conference using the ticket of a buddy who couldn't go. (I also had a TRS-80 Model 1 in my checked luggage, but that's a different tale...)

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

In the age of the internet? Read their blog..

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

That being the case, you probably also remember this: the whole photo ID and only passengers allowed at the gate stuff started in (over) reaction to the TWA 800 terrorist incident.

Oh, wait: later, the government decided it wasn't a terrorist incident. So if it wasn't a terrorist incident then what was the reactiion for and why wasn't it done away with?

Well, of course it doesn't do crap to enhance security. It pacifies the infantile minds who equate violations of liberty with actually being safe, of course, but the real effect was to kill the secondary market for airline tickets and enhance corporate profits.

Almost like somebody was waiting for an excuse to do that or something...kind of like the impossibly large Patriot Act which was allegedly written after 9/11 instead of sitting around waiting for a different excuse.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't enhancing safety. The thing that matters is passengers aren't bringing dangerous weapons (bomb, guns, etc) onto planes. There is no need for identification from a safety perspective. Even taking measures to prevent bombs and weapons like screening passengers isn't a good idea. It introduces hazards like radiation and / or discourages flight which results in more deaths from people driving (driving is far more dangerous than flying). Our airports have come to a standstill for no good reason. For short distances in particular (NYC to Boston) or Boston to Washington DC people actually drive over flying despite the time potentially being about an hour flight compared to many hours to drive. This is insane considering driving is MORE dangerous.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

"The TSA aren't needed at all. This is just a case of making sure those who get on the plane have paid."

Yep, can't have cheap bastards flying into our buildings.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

We would be able to tell when they blew up their planes.
Just like this Nigerian man obviously would have if the TSA hadn't caught him.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

The TSA aren't needed at all.

T,FTFY.

Re:What a waste!

[Tastecicles]

am I missing something? Didn't they find the untouched passport of one of the 9/11 "terrorists" a block over? Tells me that having ID does not make one not a terrorist.

Re:What a waste!

[Joce640k]

Yep. The TSA's job is safety (hence the 'S') and there's no indication this guy was trying to do anything unsafe, he's just an asshole trying to buck the ticketing system.

At the very least I assume that suicide bombers will have valid ID and a boarding pass that matches it.

Re:What a waste!

[dave420]

Not really - in Britain (which dealt with terrorism from the IRA), it was routine to make sure baggage travelled on planes with the people who owned it, so bombs would take out the bomber. That was great for stopping those who didn't want to die when planting a bomb. Ensuring who is who when loading a plane is basic information that is quite reasonable for someone in charge to have.

Hint: Not all terrorism happened in the US, and the US does learn from other countries.

Re:What a waste!

[dave420]

One person that we know of. That's the point.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

That being the case, you probably also remember this: the whole photo ID and only passengers allowed at the gate stuff ... So if it wasn't a terrorist incident then what was the reactiion for and why wasn't it done away with?

Because it's wonderful! Airports were packed solid. You could hardly get to your plane. Families of 10 or more to see one person off. It's wonderful to just drop someone off and not need to spend an hour hanging out with them at the airport.

kind of like the impossibly large Patriot Act which was allegedly written after 9/11 instead of sitting around waiting for a different excuse.

I don't think anyone tried to imply that. I knew it was the same bill the FBI had been trying to force past congress every year for something like three years.

Re:What a waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's amazing is that it survived the full frontal impact of a fully loaded plane in to a building

Re:What a waste!

[chrismcb]

Glad they are closing this loophole, it is one of the very few things the TSA has done or is doing that makes sense.

You are being sarcastic, right?

loopholes

[Mr. X]

So it's taken the TSA over 10 years after 9/11 to attempt to close this loophole? Good work guys!

Re:loopholes

[houstonbofh]

"We are already scanning the luggage, irradiating the passengers and groping their balls... What else can we do?"

"Check to see if they are actually on a flight?"

Re:loopholes

[schwit1]

This was not a loophole. This was shear laziness or stupidity.

Ensuring that each piece of baggage matched a passenger was a requirement after the Lockerbie bombing. And it's just now that the TSA figures out it's a good idea to match boarding passes to passengers IDs?

Re:loopholes

[Cid Highwind]

This check is a complete non-sequitor to 9/11.

The 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs and valid boarding passes for the flights they were on. They went through without any trouble that morning, and they would go right through with the inconvenience of taking off their shoes and an option of the ball-grope or dose of X-rays today.

Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

There have been stories of people being denied ability to fly because their ticket didn't EXACTLY match their ID. I'm sure this will result in more of the same.
(note to Westerners: in many many parts of the world, people have names with no exact relationship to how it is put on official documents... some people also have two birthdays (one is based on the moon, one is based on the calendar))

Strict unbending rules are the bane of society.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Kneo24]

People from all over the world seem to play nicely with putting their names on documents exactly the same way every time and having birthdays that match up. I'm sorry, but if you can't play along with the rest of the world and have all of your legal documents use the same birthday, you can rightly fuck off. People will do anything to be different. Really, it's quite simple to follow this rule. What does your ID say? Use that information. Problem solved.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

"System knows best." Lol.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[isilrion]

Really, it's quite simple to follow this rule. What does your ID say? Use that information. Problem solved.

Unfortunately, it isn't nearly that easy. I have two first names, and two last names. My official document lists the four words (I've seen people with more than 4). A some airline systems are just not prepared to deal with those very long strings with spaces in the middle. Checking in with Air France, for instance, is a pain, because even if I go buy my ticket with my passport in hand to show them the exact spelling, they still truncate my names, my last names, and remove the spaces. So I've easily had to spend 30 mins at the check in counter while they try to find what combination they used. Needless to say, I avoid Air France, but other airlines aren't much better: at least Air Canada and WestJet insist on deleting the spaces from my name(s). I can tell you that I have never flown with a ticket that shows my exact name (the one in my passport and the one I give when buying it).

So no, its not nearly as easy as just using the same name everywhere... most of the places I visit wont let me use my full name! (But thank you implying that it's my fault)

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[dark12222000]

Yeah, after all, if you aren't doing it like America, you're clearing doing it wrong! How dare you have a long name, it's unpatriotic!

What exactly does "rest of the world" mean? Like America? Like the UK? Do we take a tally and run the results? What if your country uses a different calendar system?

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the modern world. It might be popular in your village to sing a little song of grandure for a name, but it turns out that's not recognized as a name in international situations. And you know what? Get it sorted out with your own government -- the whole purpose of a passport is to make you internationally recognizable.

If you're finding my post to "insensitive" to your cultural standpoint, please keep in mind that myself and billions of others come from ancestors with naming schemes that are unworkable today. We adapted to the Present. It's your turn.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a simple short English name. No funny symbols No hyphens. I had trouble on a flight to Germany because I had a PhD. Delta Skymiles has a "title" field on your profile. They use this nicely and discretely UNTIL you book a title. Then there merge the title string with my last name so I become LASTNAME PhD which does not match my passport or drivers license. Also I had a bad birthdate put on my passport once when it was renewed. I didn't notice that until the customs agent on the return trip said Happy Birthday to me and I was confused. Luckily that wasn't noticed in a way that mattered.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Cyberax]

What does your ID say? Use that information.

Well, let's see. My native ID says: _a_string_that_can't_be_rendered_by_slashdot_ which is my name.

My driving license and my old passport say "Alexey". My new passport and my US visa say "Aleksei". Both are valid transliterations of my name (world doesn't use only English, you know) from the point of view of Russian laws (US consulate that issued my visa also agrees). Yet I've had a problem with a TSA officer and almost missed my flight.

Oh, I also have a patronymic which was mistaken for my last name a couple of times.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[isilrion]

That's an eye opening statement. Really. It is your opinion that all people from, let's say, Spain and Latin America should change their names to please you, because you are incapable of printing a document that reads [first name] [paternal last name] [maternal last name]. And that we all are from a "village to sing a little song of grandure for a name". That's beyond arrogant. And pretty stupid, too: it can be solved by just /not/ using a "lastname char(10)" field in the database (which is an amazingly dumb design).

But the ridiculous suggestion of "changing my name" doesn't even address my point: that the GP stated that it was just as easy as writing the name as it appears in your ID. If all Latin Americans and Spaniards need to change their name, then you are conceding the point that it is not that simple (imho, it should be: the only reason why you can type something in your 'lastname' field, and get something else printed out in your boarding pass, is incompetence). Mind you, most Americans and Canadians I know, have a middle name. Given that the aforementioned airlines have gotten my first+middle name wrong (FIRSTNAMEMIDDLENAME or FIRSTNAMIDDL instead of "FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME"), I suspect that your suggestion of changing our names should probably apply to you as well.

(Did I just fed a troll?)

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Mashiki]

Fix what names? I'm a westerner, with a romaji stylized last name, and a 'western' first and middle name. My entire name is over the 55, in fact it's 63 and it's on my passport without a problem. When I flew out west around two months back. Of the characters on my boarding pass there was 6 of my first, 3 of my middle and 8 of my last. Domestic travel in Canada? Not a problem, traveling in the US, haven't had a problem yet. Though it's not my problem you have an issue with "long" western names for us of mixed ancestry. Really the only problem I see, is a broken naming system that believes that everyone should fit under 55.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Screen404-O]

Ad to this, I had my name also spelled in French. So in my passport it was Serguei, Sergey, and Sergei. Try getting on the plane with that.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[virtigex]

You, my friend, are clearly a terrorist.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

His passport isn't the problem. The problem is airline computer software which has been programmed with very short strings for names. My full name (as written in my passport) is 26 characters, and I have had airline tickets with my name truncated.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[WinstonWolfIT]

Legally change it. If you have a compound surname, no information is lost as Delahoya vs. De La Hoya, and if you have a compound given name, adopt the first for common usage, aka Billy vs. Billy Bob.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I just fed a troll?

Breakfast, lunch and dinner! Well done, sir (or madam or ???? as appropriate)

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[jjrv]

You can't be serious. Probably the whole Latin America uses this system of at least two last names, including many US immigrants. The majority of all people in the Americas are backwards village-dwellers according to you?

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[dave420]

I have 4 names, and I've never once had a problem with it. Even when some airlines process my name as simply 2 names, with my last 3 names concatenated into some super-surname. No big problem at all - never denied entry, crossed all borders without hassle, and never missed a flight.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[dave420]

Or you could stop being so arrogant you feel the need to use "PhD" outside of academia :)

Lots of airlines append the greeting at the end of your name - I know I get MR on there a bunch. I've never seen that be a problem for anyone.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I hold in my hand a very valid US passport with 2 last names. I wonder how I'm typing this from my remote village...

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

My mother had her first name misspelled on her new passport, and the issuing body denied they made a mistake (and basically said "if you want this corrected it'll be another $100 and two-month wait even though we fucked up"). She now carries her old one as well just in case somebody wants an explanation.

Every other piece of ID she has her name is correct, they only screwed up the passport. Why they couldn't check the spelling against her license (it's one of the least-screw-uppable names out there) I have no idea. My last name has far more potential for mistakes, and they got it right.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wonder what the artist-formerly-known-as-Prince has to go through

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

(world doesn't use only English, you know)

We're talking about America here and we don't use English either...just ask anyone from England and they'll be glad to tell you about it.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[Anonymous Coward]

Then lets just give everyone numbers and call each other Citizen 09428498 or what have you.

And no, that is not the purpose of a passport. The purpose of a passport is to officially show your country's recognition of your citizenship within said country to another country that you are attempting to enter.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[isilrion]

Or you could stop being so arrogant you feel the need to use "PhD" outside of academia :)

I know you are kidding, but why waste a perfectly good opportunity to bash a mediocre software system? In my (anecdotal) experience, changing even that may be hard. When I opened an account with Air Canada, I miss-clicked and ended up with "Prof." in my salutation, which I couldn't fix in the website afterwards. I phoned them to get it changed, and I was told that I had to make a formal request and present proof that I had changed my name (wtf??). Needless to say... I still fly as "prof". I guess I'm very lucky that my miss-click didn't select "mrs". I just hope that the QA team for the ticketing systems have nothing in common with the QA teams for the flight control software.

Re:Will cause more headaches due to EXACTNESS

[chrismcb]

Wow... You know I have a very Christian name... LITERALLY. It is 11 characters... Guess what? It is sometimes too long.

Spotted at SEA

[4pins]

I took four flights over the last week. Monday I left SEA and I did not notice anything new. Friday I flew out of SEA again and the security guard took my boarding pass, scanned it, my name came up on the readout, he then did the usual comparisons against my ID and let me through. I gestured at the scanner and said, "That is not a trick I have seen before," there was glint in his eye and a small smile but no audible reply.

If you are still traveling on other peoples return flights (when the buy a round trip), it is time to stop!

Re:Spotted at SEA

[Anonymous Coward]

Just buy and refund another ticket in your own name, or get a lounge pass. Go through security with that. Then fly on the other one.

Checking names has nothing to do with limiting the introduction of weapons, incendiaries or explosives. It's payoff, in the form of revenue protection, to prevent the airlines from complaining about the TSA.

Re:Spotted at SEA

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a 'bar code reader'. It still isn't hooked up to the airlines' database.

Now you just have to know enough to fake the bar code as well as just retyping the name in Photoshop.

AC for obvious reasons.

Re:Spotted at SEA

[Anonymous Coward]

(And they probably paid Mike Chertoff's (or someone else's politically connected company) four thousand bucks apiece for what you can buy for $50 new.)

Same AC again.

Re:Spotted at SEA

[chrismcb]

If you are still traveling on other peoples return flights (when the buy a round trip), it is time to stop!

Again. WHY?

Re:Spotted at SEA

[jedwidz]

Seriously, they don't plan to match your ID and boarding pass when you actually board a plane!?

Re:Spotted at SEA

[jedwidz]

... reminds me a bit of the 'security' at my local multiplex.

One movie ticket gets you in, and then you can watch whatever you like for the rest of the day.

Dear Mr. TSA:

[GodfatherofSoul]

I recent inherited $30 million dollars US that I must hide from local tax collector. If you would kindly allow me to fly for free, I will deposit the sum of $2 million dollars in you account. Pleese allow my assistant to board your flight.

Thanks you,

Mujibar Undooku
Prime Minister of Financial Affairs, Nigeria

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your anti-slashdot racism offensive.

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for your anti-African stereotypes. Racism has always been here on slashdot.

While godfatherofsoul, maybe anti-African* he has not made any racist remarks unlike you. You see assume that all Nigerias are of the same race which is racism because if this assumption became "common knowledge" then that one race could "purify" it's land because aren't all Nigeria One Race, nobody would realize what had happened before it's too late.

*Actually, your stretching even the anti-Africanism because he didn't condemn more then one African country, You do realize there more countries then Nigeria in Africa, right?

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[interval1066]

We shall, of course, ignore the fact that the majority of these scams come from Nigera, for as we all know, its better to be politically correct than aware.

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[GodfatherofSoul]

Some of you have no clue what racism is. Most Nigerian fishing emails I got were written by someone with poor English skills.

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[Kneo24]

whoosh whoosh whoosh

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[NetNed]

Oh Oh!!! I want to help!! Can I bring a cashiers check in to a US border country anywhere to help??? That's the only way I can think of helping

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[Anonymous Coward]

Nigerians have many races. 100m, 200m, 400m. What he said is most are won by blacks.

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[guttentag]

Mitt Romney, is that you?

Re:Dear Mr. TSA:

[AK Marc]

It's not racist, it's legal. Because 419 scams are legal in Nigeria, that's where they come from. It's not about who lives there, but about the laws there.

they already do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Before I get to the rape-gate I must present my ID and boarding pass. Perhaps that waste-of-space at the kiosk could do his or her job. Just a thought...

Re:they already do that

[larry bagina]

Why stop at rape-gate? If they can confirm your name, address, and when you'll be back, they can visit your house and rape you again. Maybe steal some shit out of your house, not just your luggage.

New shiny

[Anonymous Coward]

A $100,000 a pop gadget to check people's photo ID against their boarding pass? I'm sorry TSA, but that's not good enough. It needs to at least show you my Willie and give me cancer.

They could just enforce the existing rules...

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, they could just *enforce the existing rules* instead of implementing new ones. Note the boarding was with an "invalid ID".

And boxcutters were not allowed in carryon luggage planes on September 10th, 2001, either.

AC

Re:They could just enforce the existing rules...

[Anonymous Coward]

And boxcutters were not allowed in carryon luggage planes on September 10th, 2001, either.

Actually, they were. I used to fly with a Swiss Army knife and straight-edge razors in my bag. No longer. Nowadays I can't even get past security in a federal building with that stuff.

Waitaminute...

[Enry]

Weren't those called eyeballs on the first TSA person you run into? They wave the magic UV wand over your ID to make sure it's valid, then study the boarding pass, then the ID again, then look at you, scribble something on it, and then tell you to have a nice day.

Re:Waitaminute...

[Anonymous Coward]

But that doesn't check if you go to the right gate and get on the correct plane. This is a real security hole that was known should have been closed years ago. Remember the kid that modified his borading pass before printing it off and then blogged about it?

Security should all be done directly before bording. It's just too expensive to put in that many scanners and hire that many guards.

Re:Waitaminute...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's how they do it in Canada. Last time I flew out of Canada they checked my passport and ticket twice, once at security and one last time as I was boarding the plane.

The technology will ultimately fail at some point, and what about people who grow beards? The lifetime of an ID can be up to 10 years depending upon the type, during which time one could easily grow a mountain man beard that would confuse the equipment.

Re:Waitaminute...

[fluffy99]

But that doesn't check if you go to the right gate and get on the correct plane. This is a real security hole that was known should have been closed years ago. Remember the kid that modified his borading pass before printing it off and then blogged about it?

Security should all be done directly before bording. It's just too expensive to put in that many scanners and hire that many guards.

That's not TSA's job. That's the airlines job. It's their problem if they decide to honor an invalid boarding pass.

Re:Waitaminute...

[sandytaru]

But they have no way to check it's a real boarding pass. It could be one you scanned from a month ago, changed the dates on and picked a flight to match one that is taking off that day, and otherwise tweaked to look legit to get passed the gates. Human eyeballs don't have the ability to read barcodes or QR codes and check them against the database of registered flyers for all airlines for that date. You still won't be able to sneak a bomb past security, but you can probably sneak onboard a plane without paying using this method if you're careful about it.

Re:Waitaminute...

[swillden]

This is a real security hole

You mean, this was a real (if very minor) threat to the airlines' revenues. There's basically zero security value in requiring ID to fly.

Re:Waitaminute...

[william smith6161]

sounds good to me

Re:Waitaminute...

[El Torico]

So, sneaking aboard a flight without paying for a ticket is now terrorism? What next, sneaking into a movie theater?

Re:Waitaminute...

[Enry]

Don't give them ideas.

And by them I mean the TSA.

NICE!

[Arancaytar]

Apparently you can and will get groped or cavity-searched for no reason, or denied clearance because your baby is on the no-fly list, but they do let you fly with a fake ID and invalid boarding pass. That's very sensible.

Re:NICE!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you can and will get groped or cavity-searched for no reason, or denied clearance because your baby is on the no-fly list, but they do let you fly with a fake ID and invalid boarding pass. That's very sensible.

Must be responding to the tip off about exploding babies.

Matching photo ID? Why?

[c0lo]

I mean, why they restrain themselves to photo ID only?

I bet they can do better... if only your ID will include everything those scanners can see! Even better... that groping, you know?... can be simplified by a simple visual inspection (to be replaced by automatic body recognition), as long as you take off more than your shoes.

Re:Matching photo ID? Why?

[Tastecicles]

mind's eye conjured up the scene in Family Guy:

"Penis recognition validated. Welcome, Mr. President."
"Hey, Quagmire, how'd you know that would work?"
"I didn't. I jut shoved it in and broke it."

Really?

[Adam Appel]

I thought thats what the TSA person at the front of the line does, you know when they take your ID and your boarding pass and match the information. I hate the TSA (you didnt have to work there to hate them, but i did for 6 months a number of years ago) and didn't rtfa, but I would guess that this new system just makes so sort of fuss and a "security" person then checks it again?

WTF, TSA?

[Peter Simpson]

First, we all have to show picture ID and cryptically marked boarding passes
Next, we have to partially disrobe and empty our pockets
Then, we have to pass through a metal detector and a high-cost, dubiously useful (and even more dubiously safe) perv-scanner

You mean to tell me that TSA hasn't figured out, in cooperation with the airlines, of course, how to put some kind of cryptologic authenticator on boarding passes?
Perhaps they should have used some of the money they spent on perv-scanners to buy a computer, a bar code scanner and a crypto-hash generator for the boarding passes -- like they have at the gate when you board the airplane. They could scan the new high tech RealID[tm] licenses they forced on us, too, because you know they put an authenticator hash in them (right?)

Bruce Schneier hit it on the nose (and now, former TSA head Kip Hawley seems to agree: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303815404577335783535660546.html) -- TSA is broken.

Re:WTF, TSA?

[phantomfive]

Bruce Schneier hit it on the nose (and now, former TSA head Kip Hawley seems to agree: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303815404577335783535660546.html [wsj.com]) -- TSA is broken.

I kind of think that Mr Hawley learned some things when he debated Bruce. Because some of the arguments he makes in that article sound a lot like what Bruce Schneier has been saying for a while.

Re:WTF, TSA?

[dupup]

I kind of think that Mr Hawley learned some things

Wouldn't that be the sign of an open mind and, accordingly, be laudable?

Re:WTF, TSA?

[phantomfive]

YES. It should be encouraged.

crazy waste

[Anonymous Coward]

So supposedly at some point in the future we will have positively identified some actual terrorists with a real plot but not be able to arrest them before they get to the airport where they will totally slip through all of the other defenses including passengers who will rip them to shreds. To stop that miniscule, theoretical threat we'll actually hassle billions of innocent travelers, incurring many billions of dollars in time and effort, not counting the fancy equipment and services that will enrich certain connected people.

Sounds good to me.

ID is irrelevant

[island_earth]

There doesn't seem to be any valid security reason to show ID at all before flying, much less proving that your ID and boarding pass match, any more than there is when you take a bus, ferry, subway, or train.

If TSA (or whoever would be there if we abolished this waste of an organization) is doing its job, explosives should be stopped using existing technology (x-rays, random chemical swabs, not to mention, you know, looking for nervous behavior or the wrong answers to a few basic security questions which has always worked for El-Al), and any other weapons are limited in their usefulness now that cockpit doors are secured and passengers know that "shut up and behave" no longer results in a safe landing in Cuba.

ID, matching or otherwise, doesn't matter. Most (all?) of the 9/11 hijackers had valid ID. The No-Fly list is a bloated joke. The only thing ID does is ensure that the airlines control the tickets more carefully.

Made-up crisis averted by more expensive technology that lines the pockets of some lobbyist. Woot!

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

There doesn't seem to be any valid security reason to show ID at all before flying, much less proving that your ID and boarding pass match, any more than there is when you take a bus, ferry, subway, or train.

SSSSSSHHHHH! Pipe down, dumbass! They're already considering that for nationwide train service! Don't remind them!

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

not considering, but have already impemented.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

We have nationwide train service? I though we had an intercostal route, slow, rare and expensive service on that, and only the big money to lawmaker route was useful for people who, you know, work for a living.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute.

Are you saying that you guys *don't* have to show your ID and boarding pass again at the departure gate immediately before boarding the plane?

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, exactly! It is impossible to transfer plane tickets, which gives airlines even more power in pricing than they had already. If people could trade tickets, maybe it would actually cost *less* to go to a destination without stopping than including a stop. What a concept. And tickets that offer refunds wouldn't cost 3x as much, because they'd know you can just resell your ticket.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Trepidity]

In Europe it seems to vary by airline for intra-Schengen flights. Some ask for ID, others don't. Honestly I bet the ones who check ID are more worried about you selling tickets, cutting down on their margins, than they are about terrorism.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[AthanasiusKircher]

Are you saying that you guys *don't* have to show your ID and boarding pass again at the departure gate immediately before boarding the plane?

It's funny (and not widely known), but you actually didn't need a photo ID to fly domestically in the U.S. until maybe the past couple years. For quite a few years after 9/11, you could just say "Oh, I forgot it," and they'd stick you in an alternate line that usually got you through security faster (though often with an extra patdown).

Technically, there was a legal principle that you had a right to travel freely within the U.S. without having to present "papers" (a la Nazi Germany). People who "forgot" their IDs were usually fine, but the TSA started harassing those who just refused to show ID.

Around four years ago, it started to get harder -- they'd ask for any sort of ID even without a photo: credit card, whatever, and then they'd make mysterious phone calls and generally let you through.

But then around the time of the nude scanner crap, the TSA finally decided it was just going to ignore people's right to free travel and just officially admit that we've descended into the likes of Nazi Germany if we want to travel any distance within the U.S.

For all the harassment that has been shown to people by the TSA, most people are shocked that for about 8-9 years after 9/11, you still didn't even need ID to get on a domestic flight.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[CohibaVancouver]

There doesn't seem to be any valid security reason to show ID at all before flying, much less proving that your ID and boarding pass match, any more than there is when you take a bus, ferry, subway, or train.

Exactly right - This isn't Soviet Russia. I can see needing to present a passport at check-in for International flights, but for domestic flights? No ID should be required to fly within the USA (or my country, Canada).

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that just boggles my mind. Here in Canada, we've needed to display photo ID for years, unless you're under a certain age, and even then they prefer some form of ID like a provincial health card.

Until you gave the "papers, please" reasoning, I never even considered that as a factor. It's always been the fastest way to determine who has actually shown up at the gate, and if your checked luggage is there and you aren't, it gets removed.

Really, I'm surprised that this step is even getting people mad. All the other stuff went through, complaints and all, but needing to wave a piece of ID that you'd need with you to get in a bar is suddenly unreasonable because it's being done somewhere else?

Re:ID is irrelevant

[NeverSuchBefore]

but needing to wave a piece of ID that you'd need with you to get in a bar is suddenly unreasonable because it's being done somewhere else?

Uh... yes? How does the fact that it's being done in one place mean that it's okay in another place? This doesn't even take the reason you have to show ID in bars into account (which in itself could be idiotic). The reason could not apply at all to another place, so it might just be inconveniencing people. Using this reasoning, we could force people to show IDs when they went anywhere merely because that's how it's done at bars, but that would be a waste of time.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

My girlfriend forgot her wallet and got through security just a couple months ago. They had to take her aside and do a pat down, chemical swab, pretty much everything possible, but eventually she got through.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to Walmart, Papers Please.

Re:ID is irrelevant

[AthanasiusKircher]

Yeah, you can usually still get through from what I understand. But unlike the situation before 2008 or so, the TSA no longer guarantees that they will let you travel without ID. And you'll usually be forced to submit to some "ID verification" steps where they ask you questions to verify who you say you are.

Resources misspent

[Grayhand]

They waste a fortune on scanners that can't see a gun if you strap it to your side then they screw up on the basics. It's like laws, they insist they need new laws when they don't enforce the existing ones. They need to actually enforce the existing rules before they add more bureaucracy that simply adds more holes to exploit.

Re:Resources misspent

[Anonymous Coward]

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Coming soon to a theatre near you...

[Anonymous Coward]

How come the TSA isn't doing this at *movie theaters*?? Or, maybe they could get some tips from the ushers. Just sayin, why are my tax dollars being spent to make sure only paying customers get on planes?

Lies

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA:

"Acceptable forms of ID, including passports, drivers' licenses, and permanent resident cards, carry encoded data in the form of barcodes, magnetic stripes, embedded circuits, or machine-readable text. The system also captures and displays the traveler's photograph. After verification, the data is deleted from the CAT/BPSS system."

Not after being sent to Utah first.

Catching up with the rest of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Without an organisation like the TSA the rest of the world is practicing that for decades. Your name is checked against an ID when checking in. Before entering the departure area your ID is checked again against the boarding pass and your face, takes split seconds only. When going international that happens again at immigration and finally when you try to board the boarding pass is checked against the loading list and your ID. Nothing causes any queues.
Kind of strange that this practice seems to be new in the US.

Re:Catching up with the rest of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

"Your name is checked against an ID when checking in. Before entering the departure area your ID is checked again against the boarding pass and your face, takes split seconds only."

Since you print out your own boarding pass, if it doesn't match the fake ID you're planning to use, you're a moron.

getting sick of the security state

[Anonymous Coward]

pretty sure Stalin didn't even monitor people's movements this much...

Consider..

[Anonymous Coward]

We have to show ID to board a plane but still any old illegal, dead person or felon can vote without ID in far, far too many liberal states that want to scam the election process and steal elections.

Re:Consider..

[profplump]

Why are you letting felons register to vote? And how would an ID requirement stop them? Do they get special passports that say "felon" on the cover?

Re:Consider..

[Anonymous Coward]

What he meant to say was "northern states don't do everything possible to block blacks from voting".

Why does it matter?

[Nkwe]

I don't get why it matters who I am. As long as I am not carrying anything that is dangerous to the plane and its passengers, what difference does it make?

Re:Why does it matter?

[wrook]

Ah, you see, they can't really verify that you aren't carrying anything dangerous. So, instead, they try to keep people with a long history of suicide bombings off the plane. I mean, if they've blown themselves up on 4 of their last 5 trips, there's a good chance that they will do it again.

It's not so hard to understand. You just have to start thinking like the TSA.

Re:Why does it matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dare you suggest the No Fly List is a waste of space? What about the poor people who've made millions implementing the scheme? How will they possibly survive if you stop having the list?

Think of the children, that's what I say ;-)

It happens

[neo8750]

I've gotten through security at chicago o'hara airport using a boarding pass for my connecting flight that didnt say chicago anywhere on it. I didnt notice till i was through security.

i agree

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless...you are the pilot.

Then we'll need some ID.

Of course, if you're just dead-heading, who really cares?Right, Frank?

Just like China

[Anonymous Coward]

To buy a train or bus ticket a person needs to show their ID. The ID is also checked before entering the station, and sometimes when they arrive at the destination. Each person ID is validated and finger print checked at each stage.

Coming soon to a station near you.

Absolutely pointless.

[jcr]

Terrorists don't have to bother getting on a plane anymore, and in fact they never did. The biggest, easiest target for mayhem is the crowd of people wrapped up in serpentine lines waiting to get to the obedience ritual machines.

The money spend on the entire TSA is a total waste. Put a tenth of that into bribing informants the way that Hoover did to the KKK, and what's left of Al-Queda will disintegrate.

-jcr

Re:Absolutely pointless.

[Anonymous Coward]

bribing informants

Sounds evil and sneaky, honestly.

Re:Absolutely pointless.

[Anonymous Coward]

Put a tenth of that into bribing informants

That worked so well, when random guys off the street pointed at people they simply didn't like for money. At least they filled Guantanamo that way ...

Re:Absolutely pointless.

[Anonymous Coward]

Holding a line badge, you aren't going through any of that. The mechanics won't put up with that for long either. You have to think of it as one giant facade among a very real industry who are all trying to provide transportation and keep their jobs. But somehow this facade has gotten tied to security. For every 100 bottles of shampoo that get confiscated, one pilot, one cop, or one maintenance guy could wreck the entire day. That's the fact of the matter. The only question you should have is why the fuck are they radiating and groping people for no reason.

Security is a good thing at airports, but the treasonous crap they actually have in place is not security, it is the end of the US Constitution and liberty.

DHS is in opposition to the US Constitution. If you work for DHS you ought be arrested if you continue to work and know what that work has already destroyed. The early framers of the DHS also must be arrested, most of you forgot how they stumbled early on, financially, tactically, it's no wonder so much crap happens that they never see, it's like a monster with a big tail which smashes the scene before anyone even arives. If there wasn't a problem, there will be now. If there wasn't a fire, there will be now, if there wasn't deaths, there will be now.

It's outragous that you even consider voting with this going in. Setting aside the election insanity, Who are you even voting for? Another UN Agenda 21 crony?

If you don't wake up pretty soon, you literally are going to become the enemy yourself. No need to bother with unconstitutional laws with the entire population brainwashed that the US Constitution is nullified. You will do the bidding willingly of these monsters.

Why do you even tolerate pro TSA arguments?!
Don't fucking say 911, because that shit is unsettled

Re:Absolutely pointless.

[sociocapitalist]

The TSA doesn't exist to protect the people waiting in lines. It exists to protect the buildings of financial and governmental institutions.

Re:Absolutely pointless.

[jcr]

That's the difference between today's incompetent security theater organization, and the FBI that broke the back of the KKK. It takes more than a checkbook, it takes some actual intelligence.

-jcr

Voting

[ichthus]

Cool. Now, let's match photo IDs to voting registration.

Boardibng pass are WORTHLESS

[aepervius]

I used to work in the airline industry as Check in developper and let me tell you this : the only reason there is boarding pass is because after they check you in, you are not at the gate but far away. So it is only an itnermediate doc given to the pax to be identified at the gate before being allowed to board. A Fake boarding pass will *ONLY* allow you to go from the check in and to the gate. That's it. It will not under any circumstance allow anybody to board a plane. All BP system I know of check the BN number against the name on the PNL (Pax name list) and BP have either the RFC (17 something) 2D bar code, single 1D bar code or a magnetic stripe to contain more info than a mere number. And those info are checked against the PNL while the machine register you board the plane. Sure I don't know them all, and there could be crappy one not checking anything in the US but I doubt it. It is really a basic check. So in essence a fake BP will only allow you to go the gates, and that's it.

Re:Boardibng pass are WORTHLESS

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not the idea. There hasn't been a big problem of stowaways on jetliners since about 1960.

The idea is to get through security, and/or travel on someone else's (paid-for!) ticket.

The airlines *hate* people reselling tickets, just like the video game industry *hates* people selling used games, the software industry *hates* people reselling old software, et cetera. They price RTs at less cost than a one-way. I've used this, and just thrown the return ticket away - Last time they flew an empty seat from Houston to Peru for me. If I could have sold it, I would have, and for the right price someone would have bought it. It's mine, isn't it? Right of first sale? If I bought it, and didn't use it, why *can't* I sell it to someone else?

Oh, because they lobbied the government to make laws against it. Righto.

AC

PS - See also the 'no liquids' rule. Made the airline jetway concessionaires who lost a fortune over the 'have to have a boarding pass rule' when it became impossible for people to wait for a flight at the gate - Those waiting drank a lot of booze and ate a lot of food - able to hock fresh liquids (and solids!) to those who had to give 'em up at the checkpoint. That's why it's never getting repealed. AC

Re:Boardibng pass are WORTHLESS

[Anonymous Coward]

I once had to delete and recreate BPs for my wife and I after checking in but the system wouldn't let me check back in. We got through tsa with the invalid passes easily but the real test was getting past the gate agent after we both set off the do not board alarm. Boarded fine. Plane hit something on the tarmac and we had to change planes. Surely I thought we were done. Nope.

Time to rethink your position on invalid passes.

WTF.... how is that even possible?

[jimicus]

OK, I've not flown to the US in a few years.

But every boarding pass I've seen lately has a barcode on it which identifies the passenger and their flight. How difficult would it be to store the date and time of their flight and have the scanner flash up a big red error message if they try using a boarding pass for:

  - A flight that's already left.
  - A flight that's not leaving today.

Re:WTF.... how is that even possible?

[profplump]

About 47 times as difficult as it is to Google "barcode generator" and print out a new piece of paper with a new flight number barcode on it.

Re:WTF.... how is that even possible?

[jimicus]

You mean the barcode isn't just a serial number for use with a database lookup?!

Re:WTF.... how is that even possible?

[wvmarle]

Boarding pass contains that info printed, and your ticket number or so as bar code for machine checks.

Good luck guessing someone else's ticket number, and boarding a flight in their place.

No frequent fliers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only frequent flier in here who uses digital boarding passes? I pull up a QR code on my phone and hand over my license while scanning my digital boarding pass. They see my name and the airline verifies that it's a legit pass. Can't believe no one has mentioned this yet.

not paying the prince of nigeria for nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not paying the prince of Nigeria for nothing! Why would he willingly subject to himself to such low standards? Clearly TSA isn't catching the right criminal.

Eliminate the TSA altogether...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fact #1: The TSA has failed to keep WEI (weapons, explosives, and incendiaries) off aircraft.

Fact #2: Since 9/11 gave us hardened cockpit doors and, more importantly, policies to resist attackers, there has not been a single successful attack.

Ergo, the TSA is not necessary. I'll go a step further and say let's get rid of everything, including metal detectors, Nude-O-Scopes, and bag X-rays. Make it like a bus or train station, where you walk straight to the gate without passing through any security. The only security would be your boarding pass being scanned as you board, and if the airline wants to require photo ID to prevent ticket re-sale, that should be their responsibility to put that in the ticket contract--and to enforce it.

When reality kicks in..

[Anonymous Coward]

How many ID photos of black people have you seen that didn't have so high contrast, all you saw were two white dots, maybe three if the subject was smiling?

boarding pass and ID checked *at boarding time*

[markyosti]

While traveling, especially around Europe, I've seen that they check both the boarding pass and ID at boarding time as well, well past security. Haven't seen this happening in the US yet.