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Australia's Largest Police Force Accused of Widespread Piracy
beaverdownunder writes "UK software giant Micro Focus is demanding at least $10 million in damages from the New South Wales police for widespread use of unlicensed copies of its ViewNow software it is alleged were used by members to access the COPS criminal intelligence database. Although other government organisations also alleged to have mis-used the software have settled with Micro Focus, the NSW police refuse to do so, instead seeking to fight out a battle in Federal court."
We acknowledge that the crime didn't happen in the U.S., and the company involved is British. But we feel we have jurisdiction.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Those cops put their lives on the line everyday! Who else would protect us from murderers, robbers and people who don't ....pay for....things they use...
nevermind
The eye patches, hooks for hands and tendency to say "Argh" a lot should have been a dead giveaway!
That's what they want ISPs to do to others...
Also note that when Micro Focus started investigating the cops illegal software copying, the cops began deleting the software from a number of systems.
That is willful destruction of evidence of a crime.
it seems whenever a major multinational corporation or government entity is charged with piracy, they arent. theyre simply "out of compliance" or "underlicensed" or some other equally innocuous amorphity they can escape through hiring a compliance officer, cutting a comparatively insignificant check, and saying theyre sorry. when a private citizen is charged with piracy its almost always widespread, intractable, correlated to violent terrorism, and prosecuted at the fervor of a rape case. its exactly the opposite of what it should be.
if as numerous industries do you are trying to make the case for intellectual property, it seems to do irreparable harm to the thesis to have a double standard for something so dire. if indeed using BusyBox and not adhering to the GPL or downloading the latest Nine Inch Nails album and not paying for it is just the same as stealing a car, then the logical conclusion is this police department should be disbanded. but if in practice we see a double standard then we're led to consider legitimately that piracy probably isnt as demonic as copyright clearing houses would hope you will believe.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Here's a hint: you and I are not doing the sticking.
Police department wants to fight it out in federal court to try and establish their right to steal software? Hmm...
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
which 'the man' is doing the sticking, and which 'the man' is getting stuck?
Based on what I can gather from TV, the "top" is doing the sticking and the "bottom" is getting stuck. You should probably use Google images to find out more ;-)
Copyright infringement? I would sentence them all to life in a remote penal colony...oh, wait.
Ezekiel 23:20
corporation licensing is not the same as music downloads and being in compliance is not easy. Also trying to take a compliance case to the courts may set a bad precedence. What happens when the judge or jury can't work out the licensing rules that are different for each piece of software or get confused about what is the right paper work needed to say that you have a good license. Some times COA do not count other times they do.
Someone screwed up, or misinterpreted the contract. Maybe thats the NSW Police or maybe it was an overeager MF salesperson a decade ago. Vendor says you owe us big time, org says nu-uh we'll just remove the software. Most corps and vendors settle before the lawyers get involved but occasionally things go further.
The massive beat up about the cops being untouchable and the vendor not being able to get the police to investigate themselves is complete bollocks. Seriously since when do the cops get involved in corporate contract disputes?
National media coverage of MicroFocus suing their customers is probably not a good way for them to drum up business.
Australian police pirates...
join the Party!
You are welcome on my lawn.
It may prove to be interesing to live where the police hate you!
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
corporation licensing is not the same as music downloads and being in compliance is not easy
Bullshit.
Under the law, they are the same. Copyright law does not distinguish between software, multimedia, or books.
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BMO
All those apply for REGULAR PEOPLE (ie small businesses) right now. Courts happily buy into these cases all the time.
Corporate licensing is like complaining you have "too many" cars to keep valid insurance and tags on... That's just another piece of "complex paperwork" too. Wonder what the Police opinion on that is?
.
A good rule of thumb is avoid providing services to lawyers.
My father-in-law was burnt badly by a firm of lawyers renting a property. They refused to pay rent and were well prepared to fight payment through the courts. The costs of hiring lawyers to pursue the rent made it cheaper to evict them. Eviction still required lawyers, but it was cheaper.
Standard practice until recently in Australia was for Barristers to declare themselves bankrupt every couple of years to avoid paying tax.
Maybe the would-be plaintiffs realize that they might sue the offending law firm "successfully", but so expensively that you and your lawyer "adversaries" can all have a very nice dinner on the new yacht, while laughing at the "winner" of the lawsuit.
Simply comes down to the contract, which we can't see.
The software in question is called ViewNow. It is a mainframe computer program NSW Police began using in 1998 to access the COPS database, which holds the highly confidential details of just about every citizen in the state.
Mr Craig ... says police were allowed to use up to 6,500 ViewNow licences and if they wanted any more, they would have to pay for them.
They made software with no copy protection, and were suprised that noone could be bothered to write down every computer they installed it one - especially at 6500+ copies?
Micro Focus say when they asked police just how many ... licenses they were using, a police employee allegedly told them: "Oh f--k. We've rolled out 16,000 devices".
Maybe they made up some new terms after the fact and no-one can remember nor has a paper trail to prove otherwise.
Mr Craig said."The minute we advised police there was an issue they began de-installing our software. They de-installed it without keeping records."
If you realize you are in breach of the licencing terms, isn't the requirement to stop using the software and uninstalling it the correct procedure?
In essence, the NSW Police defence is that it has all been a terrible misunderstanding.
NSW Police say on their reading of their contract... gave them the right to reproduce as many licenses as they wanted.
Simply comes down to the contract, which we can't see.
>> The software in question is called ViewNow. It is a mainframe computer program NSW Police began using in 1998
Uhh no it isn't. Its (just) an X server that runs on a PC.
whatcha gonna do when they pirate YOU.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
If you EVER question why something is happening that seems unfair or inequitable .... If you EVER see failed logic in a situation where the obvious solution or answer isn't the one chosen -- just follow the money!
Almost every time, it winds up explaining things.
When you're a major multinational corporation or a govt. agency using software and you're not paying for all of it? The best strategy for the software publisher is to give you every opportunity to get compliant. It's established that those users have deep enough pockets so they can pay you back!
Individuals who get "thrown under the bus" over a few music copyright violations, or small businesses who get nailed to the wall in the courts over a few software programs they didn't pay for aren't nearly as lucrative for the rights-holders. In these cases, the rights-holder stands to gain more by using them as examples .... Let the law come down on them and give them some prison time or some unreasonably huge fine, and they'll act as a deterrent. Otherwise, all they'd get is a paltry few more sales for the music CDs they listened to, or several licenses the business in question should have paid for.
This is very true, on the whole.... There are exceptions out there, of course. (I do some computer service work for a law firm I've worked with for years, and while they're always a little slow to pay their bills, they always do pay - and with a certain consistency in the delay. Not only that, but they even send me gifts every Christmas season.)
Law firms are high-risk clients though, in the sense that if *anything* goes wrong (even something they perceive as wrong but is simply a misunderstanding on their part) -- you can bet they'll want to resolve it via the channel they're most comfortable with. Most small businesses want to AVOID the courtroom at all costs, since they don't really have A) good enough documentation/record keeping to successfully fight a court battle, B) enough spare time to devote to one, or C) enough money to cover the legal expenses.
Plus, one thing I've learned over the years is that most lawyers in a given area seem to know each other. (EG. I had hired an attorney one time, who I wasn't very pleased with. I did some computer work for someone else who I found out was also a lawyer, though not in the same specialty of law. During our conversation, I mentioned a few of my concerns, in passing. Next thing I know? My attorney is calling me on my cellphone on a Sunday morning, demanding to know why I'm dissatisfied with his work and trying to defend his actions! Turns out the two of them occasionally saw each other at the restaurants they frequent for lunch during the week and my concerns were "gossiped" from one to the other!)
IMO, there's a really good chance that if you hire a lawyer against another lawyer you're having issues with -- the two of them will "have a talk:" off the record, and agree to some sort of resolution in advance that benefits BOTH of them more than you!
Waiting for Tonight... Oh OoOoH!
Get her opinion of "hot grits" please!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
And this has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said. How is this even a reply?
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BMO
Regular Slashdotter but posting AC. Back in the late 90's we used Windows Micro Focus COBOL a lot but we needed the Y2K version for our server that we complied the code on. Had a nice chat with the sales guy who asked what we did with it, and then a letter arrived saying we were in violation of our license and we needed a RTL for every PC we had it installed, which would have cost $60000 or they'd see us in court. Thank goodness we had a copy of our original license which allowed us unlimited clients as part of the original server install. Our legal team then wrote back telling them to piss off (in legal speak obviously). After that we migrated off their platform ASAP, wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
Murder wasn't a transportable offence - it was a capital offence. I'm sure a few slipped though but not boatloads of them.
Piracy was also capital not tranportable.
Crooks aplenty of course.
There's a lot of comment here about whether it was piracy, but note that it isn't just about the 6500 seats, they actually gave copies of the software to other organisations so that they could access the police systems. In fact, that was how Micro Focus came to hear about what was going on.
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Whether police or not, government agencies often turn a willfully blind eye to licensing requirements. For some perverse reason, they think that because they're government they can do whatever they want.
Here's a clue for government agencies: You're subject to the same laws and restrictions as citizens, and then some, not less.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Keystone Kops
"If the only tool that you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Donny Rumsfeld
Main Force Patrol (MPF) was the only police force in Australia.
Anyone old enough to remember INSLAW? http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.01/inslaw.html
Although I think that people should pay for what they use, It may be a case where the EULA didn't include Government Agencies, but the Government should pay, especially since the current convervative would be right behind and anti-piracy action.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
This company has some old products. And some new license agreements. Possibly by the appearance of some new brushes in management who had ideas about how clients should be paying them.
I suggest you take a good look at what you have signed and see if it matches what you _think_ you have rights to. Always good advice anyway.
That really depended on the "murder". For example, one of my ancestors (the one whose surname I have) was tranported here for two "murders". In actuality, it appears he was involved in a riot in Ireland in which two people were killed, and he was convicted on that basis. Unfortunately, the records stop there due to the loss of records in Ireland around the time (riots, church burnings, etc).
In any case he made good - became foreman for the chain gang that built the road to Mrs Macquarie's Chair; got his Ticket o' Leave; married; bought a pub; got drunk a lot; bought several cows (one at a time) ...
Murder wasn't a transportable offence - it was a capital offence. I'm sure a few slipped though but not boatloads of them.
Piracy was also capital not tranportable.
Crooks aplenty of course.
Most people were transported for petty crimes, burglary, petty theft and the like. The hardened criminals like murderers and rapist stayed in Mother England.
The reason for this was when a convicts sentence was up, they weren't sent back to England (too expensive, bodies take up room from precious cargo), they were given a parcel of land in Australia that they could do what they liked with. You dont just set hardened criminals free in a large, uncharted land do you, so they all stayed in England
Also, sedition was a crime that warranted transportation, but back in the 1800's sedition in great Britain meant displaying an Irish flag.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Standard practice until recently in Australia was for Barristers to declare themselves bankrupt every couple of years to avoid paying tax.
I was about to say that if you did that in the UK, you would surely no longer be able to practice as a barrister, but looking at the Bar Standards website, that doesn't appear to be the case. Unbelievable.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it