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Mistreated Foxconn Brazil Workers Threaten Strike
An anonymous reader writes "More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans. From the story: 'Factory workers at a Foxconn plant in Jundiaí, Brazil are complaining of overcrowded buses, poor food and a lack of water and have threatened to strike unless the issues are resolved by May 3.
According to a report by Brazil's Tech Guru (Google Translation), over 2,500 Foxconn employees have complained about conditions at the factory. Workers reportedly met last Monday to raise the concerns and have given the company 10 days to address them.'"
Workers of the world unite! The only thing you have to lose are your iPads!
This plant has nothing to do with Apple. They make XBoxes.
Brazil workers have more rights then ones in China.
They even got mcdonalds sued and won the case over them offering only a limited free lunch menu.
Brazil has a government-backed program requiring certain classes of employers to provide meal and grocery vouchers to low-income employees. It is not uncommon for employment benefits in developing countries to include things such as meal vouchers or housing supports that are normally not part of benefits packages in more developed countries.
and only offering a limited menu does not fit the rules.
I am sure that foxcon will remove all the problems and put better things in place. All 2500+ problems.
"Apple, and Dell, and Samsung, and Amazon, and Tosiba, and .... (insert evert other company producing consumer electronics here) ...partner Foxconn"
Guess only Apple shod be accountable or something?
If foxconn thinks that Brazil is China, they are very mistaken...
Someone is wanting more bribes
Actual work conditions are irrelevant, as long as union leadership is compensated accordingly
That might be part of it, but labor laws in Brazil are much more strict than in most other places in the world. It is pretty common to hear people, especially in blue-collar jobs, to publicly complain about working conditions to pressure the companies to follow the law.
The working conditions there are certainly not even close to what you would see in China, but that doesn't mean this is just about bribery.
After the retraction, I don't know if I even care if this is Apple at this point. Quite frankly I'd be surprised if this was at the plant producing Apple goods. The latest outbreak of suicides and protestations have been over the division that manufactures Xboxes, funny enough.
Not Apple's gear.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Manaus and Indaiatuba are where phones are made, TFA states the workers threatening to strike are at the the Jundiaí factory. Isn't that where the xbox is made?
Watch those corners
This is the kind of thing that I think needs to make the news, the differences between workers' rights in different countries, especially as there are more pushes to reduce workers' rights in the United States. I'm gathering that Brazil is one nation that has gone through a similar process that the US has, with a labor movement that secured legal rights for workers. Obviously China is still figuring that out, and I am not surprised when Chinese companies run afoul of labor laws in other countries when they take production overseas, as they've never been forced to reform at home like these other countries require.
The more reforms China forces on their companies the more expensive those goods become, and the less desirable it is to send manufacturing there. It's a race to the bottom only retarded by workers everywhere forcing conditions to change.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
As a brazilian myself, I saw the news about it in the last few days in our local media.
Foxconn is in Brazil for serveral years. The main problem of water was reported as a temporary supply problem from the public water system, not Foxconn fault.
The second biggest problem was reported about the buses being overcrowded. This is most probably because Foxconn hired a lot of workes recently to increase its production and the guy responsible for transportation made a lousy job to handle the extra workers.
Also, the union president said the strike is very unlikely because Foxconn said it was already taking care of the situation. They aren't striking for salaries, bonus, or anything else related. The union just made a warning for Foxconn to act quickly.
-1, only in America are unions hated so much. You'll never see positive union viewpoints on the news without them being portrayed as combative.
Possibly.
But once upon a time, the unions were about bettering things for their members.
It's just possible that in Brazil, unions are still at that point.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
then vs than, please! Read your grammar book first!
If you wanna hear somethin funny I'll tell ya...
Foxconn and another Chinese manufacturer have been talking to governments in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, and Georgia about opening a plant when they finally throw out minimum wage. Supposedly there are some handshake agreements over it, but what do I know. I only drive limos in DC
Over 2,500 job positions now open.. which will be filled promptly.
Why would it ruffle my feathers? I'm not responsible for the working conditions or employment practices of some company overseas nor do I give a shit. If all of these people in India and China and Brazil and everywhere else hate the conditions so much, I'm sure there are plenty of other unemployed people in our own country that wouldn't mind taking their job back.
Also, you know, let brazil deal with brazil's problems. I have enough shit to wrry about.
US union laws != Brazilian union laws.
As I understand it, the US is pretty much the only country with corrupt unions. At the very least union corruptions seems much lower in most first world country.
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Makes sense, actually.
First, Foxconn management get themself some rights, then brazilian workers have more rights, and only then chinese workers can have whatever leftover rights there are after a whole brazillion of workers chips at them.
More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans
I'd bet they're more ruffled by the fact that Apple gets credit for everything that happens in Foxconn anywhere......
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I will go first. Belgium (Minimal rights for an office employee):
20+ days payed holidays (I have 35)
Medical benefits
Social security in case of unemployment
38 working hours per week
Choice of at least 3 unions (Although this is not a must and nobody will ask)
Reasonable privacy laws (e.g. No camera pointed to working people)
No firering when you told you are pregnant
No cubicles, but rather human interaction
Several laws that will favor the employee
Reduction on transportation (often 100% on public transportation)
Food checks (Often, not always. Between 5 and 7 EUR per working day)
Best beer in the world (OK, not work related, but still: this is Belgium.)
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
And still you offer none...
After all, in bowling X designates a strike. I wonder if we could come up with a headline that is a palindrome?
On a more serious note, I think we are going to see these types of stories a lot. Lesser developed country turns into an industrial country via low pages wages. As economy grows, workers strike for a higher wage / bigger piece of the pie.
Yup, nowhere except America manages to so completely miss the point of unions. In most of the world, unions work like this:
A group of people are elected to represent the workers. If there are unreconcilable difference of opinion between groups of workers, then you get two or more unions. Each can negotiate with the employers on behalf of their members, and can pretty much guarantee that the deal that they reach will be agreed to by most of their members because they actually represent their members. If you disagree with all of the unions, you are not forced to join any of them. Any deal negotiated by the unions is open to all workers, irrespective of union membership.
Meanwhile, in the USA, they work like this:
To get the job, you must be a member of the union. If you are not, then you must join immediately. There is only one union that represents people in your position. Only employees can be union officials, and anyone who gets elected without being open to bribes finds that they no longer have a job and must therefore resign. You must accept the deal negotiated between the company and their, sorry, your representative or you lose your job.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If Apple wants to insulate itself from bad press related to the employment practices of its contract manufacturers, it could buy its own factories and employ the workers who make its products.
There are contract manufacturers, totally capable of meeting their manufacturing requirements, that Apple could afford to buy if they wanted to. Or they could just buy the few factories that they would need.
When they choose to do business with sweatshops to build their products, they are essentially telling us they don't care enough to dirty their hands with that manufacturing business. They don't want to think about the labor relations aspects. They just don't care that much.
Same goes for Microshaft (whose products these particular workers actually make) and all the other big companies that use contract manufacturers instead of employing their own labor force. Little companies can legitimately say that they can't afford the investment in manufacturing capacity necessary to make their products efficiently. That's just not the case when you're making a big-ticket item that you sell by the millions.
And still you offer none...
There are plenty of examples to be found...
And you know this because you have seen working conditions in this particular plant?
but I bet you never worked in a union shop or one that was trying to organize.
I think you've just lived long enough to hear a few stories thirdhand and think you now know God's truth.
Out of curiosity do you have paid government mandated holidays on top of the 20?
To get the job, you must be a member of the union. If you are not, then you must join immediately. There is only one union that represents people in your position. Only employees can be union officials, and anyone who gets elected without being open to bribes finds that they no longer have a job and must therefore resign. You must accept the deal negotiated between the company and their, sorry, your representative or you lose your job.
You'd be surprised. I've traveled a lot lately, and i find it to work this way in most of the world. As a closer example: i live in Argentina. Joining an union is a de facto requirement in order to get a job on several industries (transport, particularly trucking, metal, food... even general commerce).
Unions aren't even that corrupt in the US. Cases of corruption are just highly publicized by those who have an interest in seeing unions outlawed / declawed.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
And next those fine states will have handshake agreements with Foxconn about moving in even more production when they bring back slavery. If we're going backwards, why not just go all the way? I'm sure legalizing slavery would push unemployment down VERY quickly!
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
A lot of the things you list are not provided by the employer, but the government.
And no cubicles? I worked in a place like that, and it sucked due to lack of privacy! Couldn't even sneak a peak at /. without everyone seeing.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I did actually - union shops are as illegal in Argentina as they are in the rest of the world, yet good luck trying to get a job without an union membership in a lot of industries. In most cases (transport), you'll only get one union to choose from.
Hope that gives you a little insight on me instead of all that betting and guessing.
If a sociologist were to get hold of this it would be interesting. Foxconn China vs. Foxconn Brazil. The parent company and the products remain constant, as do the sources of most of the parts, while what changes are local management, local laws, and local workers. So, if there were any systematic difference in manufacturing quality between the two locations, it might tell is some interesting things about differences in culture. Do workers in China or Brazil have better attention to detail? Better concern for precision? Better concern for what the inside of a product looks like vs. the outside, where tolerances allow differences?
My iPad 2, for instance, has a very minor manufacturing flaw. There is a plastic seal between the front glass and the metal that wraps around the sides, where along one bottom corner, the plastic protrudes slightly more. So there is room for variability in assembly that would be interesting to look at.
For Foxconn's sake, they could turn this into a benefit. Hey personnel A! Why aren't we doing better than personnel B?
In the US, we've kinda lost that competitive drive; we've adopted a culture of doing the minimum work for the maximum pay, but maybe Brazil and China have different values.
@TWX
While you may be correct in assuming that "the more expensive those goods become, and the less desirable it is to send manufacturing there", I must point out that the end result you describe as the "race to the bottom" is an obvious fallacy.
While manufacturing may move away as a result of rising standards, from the worker's perspective, it's a question of whether or not it's worth it to accept severe wage erosion or lose a job altogether when standing up for their rights.
If you are trying to demonstrate concern about workers rights, please be careful about the correct application of such a phrase as it may confuse others who are still educating themselves about these issues. If you are concern trolling for the plant owners, here's someone that knows better calling BS.
Keep in mind that Foxconn is not Chinese (PRC) but Taiwanese Chinese (ROC). That their infamous Longgang (Shenzhen) plant is in PRC does not make them PRC Chinese.
Also keep in mind that labor is just a minor factor in China's low cost. In fact current Shenzhen minimum wages are higher than minimum wages in over 10 EU countries. Tax-free importing of raw materials meant for exported goods, lacks environmental laws, etc. provide much more significant cost savings.
If that increases the price of them $250/unit, that won't actually stop most of the noisy radicals who of course already own several of their own Apple products.
And how is shutting the fuck up going to improve conditions?
I'll work backwards. The last is not true, since that would generally be criminal. The next to last is also false, you don't have to join the union in most places, unlike your claim, but the union IS required to represent you, which is why deductions for that effort is made. Your second comment is an allegation without substance, and even if true, don't corporate executives look out for their interests and not the workers or customers. And for the first, doing things right is often expensive, where does that justify seeking places where you can abuse your workers? Maybe you think cheaper is better for you, but that's not necessarily better for others.
Do you not even care about that?
Arabic (to communicate to their tormentors).
Since when did Xe employees speak Arabic?
Is it really a good idea to use slaves to produce delicate electronics?
Salaries can just be adjusted down to account for benefits. Really those benefits don't sound that opulent, and are mainly allowing workers to afford to work, which any successful company must be able to provide.
Oh, bullshit. We pay just the same price as we did for our consumer goods, the only difference is, with the full-scale assault on unions that started in the 80's, and rampant inflation, the purchasing power of the average American worker has stagnated for 30 years. Business aren't "forced" to do anything, they make a conscious decision to move operations overseas because it increases their bottom line. Those savings weren't passed along to consumers, they were passed along to CEO's, which is why today they make orders of magnitude more a year than they did back in those days. The "trickle down" bullshit is a myth, because the wealth never fucking trickles down. A billionaire getting another billion a year isn't going to do shit for the economy at all, but 100,000 people with an extra $10,000 a year in their pocket sure as fuck will.
It always cracks me up when people throw up union corruption but never fucking acknowledge the antisocial and outright damaging antics of the greed of these fucking asshole "job creators" on the other side of the coin. Terrorists, gangs, welfare queens...none of them are nearly as damaging to our economy as these goddamn parasites we call "corporations" that use every legal mechanism at their disposal (as well as some illegal ones) to avoid paying one single penny in taxes despite the fact that billions are pouring into their coffers every year. A single mother that loses her job is a parasite when she's reduced to applying for food stamps, but corporations sucking in billions in subsidies and tax breaks, while at the same time earning billions a year in profit, they're what? Something to celebrate? Fine, upstanding members of the community? Give me a fucking break.
Fuckin' A right.
Imagine if they publicized the underhanded shit done by the banks/corporate America with as much diligence. Hell, imagine if American citizens had to work a few months in one of those Foxconn factories...how long would it be before this whole "oh, those poor, poor multibillion dollar corporations that are making more money than they ever have in history are forced to employ slave labor on the other side of the world" nonsense went out the fucking window?
Half the people in this country still believe they're going to be part of that club of the super wealthy one day, and until that changes, we're going to continue being ruled by the real parasites on society, limited liability corporations.
In brazil workers unions normally plan strikes annually. About 2 months ago the police force that reacts to emergency calls when on strike because they wanted a pay increase; crime skyrocketed. The standoff between the governor of the state Bahia (a state in the north eastern region) held his ground in not granting a pay increase. The result was that the police force on strike held their grounds until the last day that their action would be construed as an abandonment of their public obligations. (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnoticias.terra.com.br%2Fbrasil%2Fnoticias%2F0%2C%2COI5597144-EI5030%2C00-BA%2Bgreve%2Bda%2BPolicia%2BMilitar%2Bprejudica%2Binicio%2Bdo%2Bano%2Bletivo.html&act=url)
Banks go on strike at least once a year, truck drivers who deliver gasoline when on strike to protest city decisions about when roads could be used by trucks. While Foxconn is threatening a strike, it's organized by the workers union because it seems the factory is overcrowded... You can read the translation of the local media here (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftechguru.com.br%2Ffoxconn-de-jundiai-pode-entrar-em-greve-na-semana-que-vem%2F).
The typical mentality of trying to run a factory at 110% capacity to maximize profits...
Whee, let's just race all the way to the fucking bottom! "What gives you the right to complain about your gruel, serf?!? There are people in Africa that don't even have gruel to eat! We'll show you, we'll just move our factory there instead!!"
I suppose we should just be grateful these companies allow us to draw breath at all.
Well done! You have internalized the value systems of your ruthless corporate masters even though you will never see any benefits from it. Doubleplusgood.
Really? Are we such a deadened society that we think product allegiance equates to willful negligence of human rights?
Somehow I get the feeling most "Apple fans" also care about the humane treatment of other human beings. Implying that loyal Apple users care more about the image of their chosen computer company than human rights is just silly sensationalist headlining.
Oh yeah. Slashdot. I must be new here.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought
Again, mobile site but I am on my desktop. Slashdot, is there any hope?
It's even worse when cities and states compete for new businesses to moved to their city/state, the end result is almost always a 5-10 year break on ALL taxes (sales tax, property tax, etc) for that company. To see the damage this causes on a larger scale, just look at Ireland, for many years they had a ridiculously low (if not non-existent) corporate tax in order to attract foreign businesses, and now the government is so broke they have to cut back on ALL government services (much like the rest of the EU)
No matter what you do to a company, the extra savings will always be passed to the executives, and the extra costs will always be passed to the customers/empoyees/taxpayers. Publicize the losses and privatize the profits is the new corporate motto
How long do you think Belgium (and the rest of Europe) can afford this?
As long as those companies that wish to do business there are forced to participate in the social contract.
Once they ease that restriction, and allow them to offshore all their labor and dodge taxes left and right, then they'll be on the same path towards a corporate-controlled neo-fuedalist society that we are. The only reason American corporations get away with this shit is because our representatives allow them to. They're both at fault, but I'm not going to excuse the moral turpitude prevalent in corporate society in this country just because there's no specific law against their antisocial behavior on the books. We all know that they're playing these games, the difference is, half of the people in this country, for some reason, think it's excusable. Funny how those same people often bitch and complain about the "parasites" collecting welfare and food stamps but ignore the fucking billion dollar corporations taking billions in subsidies and paying zero net tax year after year.
or those of us that have ever tried to have anything built
If the government taxes the corporations to afford these worker benefits, then they are really being provided by the corporations (against their greedy will)
Also, passing laws to enforce privacy and non-discrimination, limiting work weeks, and mandating payed holidays doesn't cost the government anything at all. It just pisses off the corporations (who also happen to OWN the government in the US, which is why those same laws don't get passed here)
For one, they have massive, massive cash reserves. With that kind of money it would be completely feasible to fund their own production lines. It is very expensive to set up production facilities, more than most people appreciate, but Apple has the cash to do it and not seriously deplete their reserves. So were it an issue that mattered to them it would be doable.
Also it would be doable in a first world country, given Apple's large margins (how do you think they got all the cash?) It would mean smaller margins, of course, but they'd still be fine. Don't believe the hype that manufacturing is such a large part of the cost that they couldn't afford to do it in the US or Japan or the EU if they wanted to. They could and would still be profitable, just less so.
Now I'm not saying they should have to do this, just that they very well could. So there is no giving them a pass on "Oh they just couldn't do that and still deliver their products." No, they could afford to set up their own production lines in the US, and to produce their products at current prices. They'd make less, but still be profitable.
umm we are still pointing the finger at Apple when Foxconn distributes to IBM, SONY, PANASONIC, ETC.
Strike that.
In Brazil, there is corruption at every level. Being part of a union is not optional for "registered" workers, and there is no real correlation between interest of the workers and union actions. In fact, unions are more about showing service and adding to bureaucracy rather then representing the true worker interest. It's not uncommon to hear about alliances formed between politicians and unions.
To make it easier to swallow, firms are responsible for paying the obligatory fee for each worker and it's spun to the worker as a benefit alongside health coverage and other sweeteners firms offer their workers. But unlike the sweeteners or the extra health coverage, workers can't opt out of that.
Thing is that those states kind of want to. I live in kentucky and I've had a door to door survey and one at work both about minimum wage/forced benefits and do I think they're necessary anymore. I just tell them story of the owner at Little Caesars I worked at saying he wouldn't pay an employee more than $2.00 an hour if he wasn't legally required. I hated that place.
One is just that they like to pretend they are better than other companies, and they seem to want to deflect from the China thing. Every product has its place of final manufacture stamped somewhere on the item and/or box. It is required by law. Most companies do that, it just says "Made in X." Apple doesn't, they prefix it with "Designed in Cupertino by Apple." They seem to want to deflect from the fact that they make things in China like everyone else since they are "different" and better.
The bigger one though is Apple could afford to manufacture somewhere else with their hefty prices. Yes, with low margin stuff you often have to choose a cheap place to manufacture, but with more expensive items, you can afford better manufacturing. Like Denon, for example. Their lower end receivers are all made in China. However their higher end stuff is made in Japan (which is where they are located). They can afford the higher manufacturing cost since the profit per unit is higher on those higher end goods. The premium priced goods have premium manufacturing.
Well Apple has quite high margins. This would be where that massive amount of cash they have has come from. All their devices feature premium pricing. As such they could afford to manufacture somewhere other than China. Also, with all that cash, they could afford to build their own facilities, if they needed to because the country they chose didn't have a contractor that could do it.
Now it would mean some tradeoffs. The main one would be the big profit margins. They'd still be profitable, but not as outrageously so. The other would be that they couldn't go and roust a bunch of workers out of bed because their CEO decided he wanted a new design, they'd have to go through the normal design process that can take a bit.
However they can do it. A company that is operating on thin margins may well not be able to. Like game consoles. If they make any money on a console, it is very little. Often companies will elect to take a loss to keep the retail price down and sell more (their profit is on the games). For that, the manufacturing cost counts and you want it done cheap. Choosing a higher priced place can kill your business.
So that's why Apple gets less of a pass than some others. They are in a position they could do better, they just choose not to as to make more money. That's fine, that is a valid position, but it is also one people can take issue with.
Finally, Apple is an "All the cheapest, all the time," kind of outfit. Many of the others you listed are not. Intel, for example, fabs almost all their CPUs in the US. They also have a fab in Ireland, Israel and a new one opening in China but 6 of their fabs are in the US and the newest one they are building is also there. Or Samung, who makes all their LCD panels in Korea (most higher quality LCDs are from Korea), and their final products all over (my TV is from Mexico).
Not trying to paint Apple is the Big Baddie here or anything, just saying there is a reason they get more shit.
You do know that the plant in question makes Xboxes?
And with good reason...
Yes, the corporate oligarchs have an agenda, and a false portrayal of unions as the enemy is part of it.
Argentina is not part of America
Those benefits are pretty close to the benefits here in Norway. And in case you have forgotten, we have a higher standard of living than any other country. So, yes, we can afford it. And more.
I think that you are being a little too generous to Intel and Samsung, I suspect that their Korean, US and Mexican operations are commercially rather than ethically driven.
Fabs and LCD plants are massive capital investments and fairly efficient in operating manpower so legal/political and general stability are more important than absolute labour costs and can be commercially justified.
The building to TVs in Mexico and Eastern Europe has a couple of reasons. One is less tax/import duty than bringing fully assembled TVs into NAFTA (probably) and the EU (certainly). The other is the shipping cost and time for moving TVs (even flat panel TVs) wipes out the benefit of Chinese manufacturing cost.
Laptops, iPads and iPhones are easy to air ship and may attract lower duty than TVs.
Uh...because they are? You might call their inspections of Foxconn facilities and efforts to improve worker's conditions weak sauce - and they probably are - but it's more than anyone else is doing. And Apple hasn't offshored most of their customer support (or threatened remaining workers to STFU or see their jobs to to India) like most of their competitors.
So do Intel and Microsoft. All gigantic companies with more money than god in between their couch cushions, yet neither gets so much as a fraction of a percentage of the flack that Apple gets.
Because a large number of haters want to give them shit. Otherwise they wouldn't be directing 100% of the blame at 15% of the problem.
It seems that Apple is learning that unless they are enslaving Brazilians to work on a sugar plantation, it is demonstrably harder to enslave your average Brazilian than it is to enslave your average Chinese.
Well, to be fair they do care. They care a lot about their PR - the same as any other company. And it is a lot easier to say, "we audit these external contract companies twice a year and have given them x months to make changes" than it is to say, "oh, yeah, we treat our employees in China and Brazil like crap. You caught us.". It is much better PR to work with these contract companies than to have your own sweatshops.
I find your lack of self-awareness disturbing.
Obviously, because if the workers want to enjoy the pay and benefits won by the union, they should become dues paying members of said union. Obviously. If you worked hard at negotiating yourself a raise yet someone off the street piggybacked off your efforts without lifting a finger on their own, you'd be pissed.
Also obviously, if some of your union members have to do a lot of work outside office hours to support the union, they deserve to be compensated for that effort. So you have union dues.
Which is why right wingers have passed "Right to Work for Less" laws around the country, which allow workers to have the same pay and benefits as union members without doing any of the negotiating or making any of the sacrifices.
No more or less than any other country. Sometimes you have more than one union, sometimes you don't.
Only if your union votes that that be the case. And who doesn't want their union rep to either have had skin in the game or experience doing the same job you are?
Ah, there it is. The Hatorade. Why not go on about tomatoes and a union boss that's been dead for nearly 40 years while you're at it? Or, maybe give the "Buz Unionzzz are Corrupt!!!!" shtick a rest until Unions are responsible for trillions in bank fraud and have totally co-opted every western government the way FIRE has.
There are entirely legitimate reasons to outsource manufacturing. If you have your own factory, and you get a burst of orders, you won't be able to keep up because you'll lack the needed capacity, leading to long lead times that cause you to lose customers. Conversely, if you get a lull in orders, your factory will be sitting idle, wasting money. Big companies outsource manufacturing to avoid those issues. It gives you a lot more flexibility.
The problem isn't that Apple and Microsoft and all these other companies use outsourced manufacturing... it's that they outsource the manufacturing to sweatshops. They could easily pay a bit more to have their products manufactured by a company that respects workers' rights, or pay a bit more to compel companies like Foxconn to respect workers' rights. Instead, they constantly focus on driving down prices so that they can pocket a few extra tenths of a percent of profit. And if that means some Chinese workers are getting woken up in the middle of the night to work a twelve hour shift, or some Brazilians don't have access to sufficient drinking water, who cares? The executives hanging out in Silicon Valley or Redmond or wherever will still have their billions, and that's what matters.
Hopefully the continued pressure from the media and the public will make companies like Apple push companies like Foxconn to improve conditions, but there's still a long way to go.
Who cares it's a chance to bash apple! Lets not facts get in the way.
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
To be fair, "Designed in Cupertino by Apple." is a holdover from when they actually used to build the machines in California or the US. For a long time it instead said "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in U.S.A" or something along those lines.
Not trying to paint Apple is the Big Baddie here or anything, just saying there is a reason they get more shit.
Yes. That reason is "Apple generates page views while every other tech company does not." Don't try to pretend that there's any reason beyond that as to why people focus so heavily on Apple.
Apple generates page views. Page views generate money. People want money. Therefore, people mention Apple.
Very simple.
From a strict Libertarian perspective, the judgment would be something like, ``cool, these private workers signed contracts with each other so that they could negotiate collectively and wield more clout in the same way that shareholders signed contracts with each other so that they do things collectively and make more profit and these two groups worked out a contract and this shows how the free market should work.''
But from the Randian point of view that dominates the US, the judgment is something like, `OMFG, COMMUNISM!'
Uh, what? That makes no sense.
Granted, not all of the US of A reasons like that. But the group that does is exceeding loud and appears to be growing in both numbers and in political power.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
``Through the combination of social and economic change, trade union organizations experience greater difficulty in carrying out their task of representing the interests of workers, partly because Governments, for reasons of economic utility, often limit the freedom or the negotiating capacity of labour unions. Hence traditional networks of solidarity have more and more obstacles to overcome. The repeated calls issued within the Church's social doctrine, beginning with Rerum Novarum, for the promotion of workers' associations that can defend their rights must therefore be honoured today even more than in the past, as a prompt and far-sighted response to the urgent need for new forms of cooperation at the international level, as well as the local level.''
I guess he's just another one of those liberalist pantywaists that would like to see communism take over the world.
Or not.
The way that many in the US conflate unions with communism baffles me. It was, to a large extent, a trade union (Solidarity) that brought down the communist regime in Poland. And it was this event that signaled the coming down of the entire iron curtain.
We pay just the same price as we did for our consumer goods
In 1979, an 80-column dot-matrix printer (with no descenders) for my TRS-80 cost $1000, which is $2900 in today's dollars. Today, you can buy a laser printer for under a hundred bucks.
From VCRs to coffee machines there's about a zillion other examples.
So Microsoft is a poor company and must use labour that borders on slave labour?
It wasn't even the point being discussed, but you should really pick up an atlas and double-check you facts.
Yes. Also some compensation due to overtime and also sometimes extra holidays. That is how I get to 35.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
what ruffles the feathers of Apple fans is people pointing out that their iProducts aren't hand-crafted by well paid "computer artisans" or whatever, and instead are made by third world labor.
Can't have that illusion shattered.
Foxconn supplies most every major tech firm on the planet with something. Apple just happens to be one of the larger ones.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The Chinese workers don't complain of bad food or overcrowded buses - they just work
No, that 80 column dot matrix would still be running today. Apples to oranges comparison you make.
The $200 craptastic laser printer won't be running 4 years from now.
So, you have to buy a printer 5 times over the course of 20 years. You are out a grand, plus you got gouged on consumables.
Consider the modern equiv. of that dot matrix printer: The industrial thermal printer. Those cost 2-4 grand and last decades.
Yes, you have to pay an union duty once an year. You *can* chose to pay that duty to your profession's local union if you're skilled labour (e.g. engineers can chose to pay the engineers' union no matter what union takes care of the majority of the workers in their place of employment), and those often chatge a lot less than the law-mandated duty.
OTOH, you will always have the 13rd salary, 30 days of paid vacation an year at 133% and the massive fine if your place of employment does not make it possible for you to go on vacation once every two years, and a lot of other safety nets from LGT... All of which *are* the direct conquests of the very large Union fights in the later quarter of the previous century.
"Foxconn manufactures products for companies including: Acer, Amazon, Apple, Cisco, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, Vizio" ref
AccountKiller
Ok, let get something: Brazilian employees in big companies have A LOT of more legal benefits than you guys can imagine. This is no China. The wages are low because it is a development economy; nevertheless:
30 consecutive days of vacation, with a 33% salary bonus while on vacation
13 salaries each year (1 monthly, the 13th paid in two halfs each semester)
Working overtime demands a bonus from 55% to 100% of the regular wage
If one is fired due to business issues, there is a fine to the employer (paid to the employee) proportional to 40% of one salary times the number of years you worked to the company (there are exceptions to this rule concerning a possible contract fault committed by the employee)
120-day maternity leave (even if the child is adopted)
5 day leave to the father of the newborn
If the employer wants to fire the employee, he must warn him 30 days in advance. If he does not want the employee to come back, he must pay an additional monthly salary
The employee cannot spend more than 6% of his salary on transportation to work. The excess is paid by the employee.
Big companies are suposed to provide lunch or lunch vouchers
Strikes are strongly regulated. The labor courts are supposed to declare whether the strike is legal or not
Believe me, there is a whole judiciary branch specialized in labor disputes.
If there's a story about the company that made the paint used to put lines in Apple's parking lot, I suppose /. will have to cover that, too.
Nope, the serious underlying psychopathic sickness here is, that people are cheaper and more disposable than robotics. Those same devices manufactured in western countries would largely be automated, so the plant costs considerable more to build.
This is all about how disposable a work force is, about which countries will allow their citizens to be the most devalued.
What's needed is a fair basis of trade, where those legislated costs are applied to products whether they are locally produced or imported. It is extremely uncompetitive to penalise local manufacturers with costs and then exclude imported products from those costs in the vain attempt to appease the insatiable greed of psychopaths.
This is a regulatory issue, all products whether imported or domestic should be subject to the exact same legislated costs. Better a local automated factory than a foreign grind people up and spit them out when they are no longer of any use sweat shop.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
That sounds like good labor laws to me. It invites the next question, however: Apple - well, Foxconn - has built a manufacturing plant for iPads in Brazil, didn't they? So, apparently, manufacturing those things there is sufficiently cost-effective. Why, then, not manufacture them there for other countries, as well - including US?
No, that 80 column dot matrix would still be running today. Apples to oranges comparison you make.
No, that Radio Shack printer (rebranded Centronics) died repeatedly - Bad power supply, crappy tractor feed, destroyed solenoids pounding against a steel platen. And don't get me started on the nightmarish printer ribbon feed mechanism - It was an impossible mess.
The $200 craptastic laser printer won't be running 4 years from now.
I bought my HP 1012 in late 2003 and it's still going strong nearly nine years later. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it you anonymous coward.
the first line of the /. post shows that the scum bucket coward is just posting this as flame-bait.
"More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans."
There was an unknown error in the submission.
especially as there are more pushes to reduce workers' rights in the United States.
No there's not. There's a push to limit collective bargaining, that's not the same thing no matter what the TV told you.
The more reforms China forces on their companies the more expensive those goods become, and the less desirable it is to send manufacturing there. It's a race to the bottom only retarded by workers everywhere forcing conditions to change.
I'm not sure how a level playing field and bringing manufacturing back to the US qualifies as "the bottom".
This plant makes both Xboxen and iPhones. You make fifty cents anyway, though.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There are entirely legitimate reasons to outsource manufacturing.
They all go away when you are as large as Apple, because there's no chance that Apple can't keep a manufacturing facility busy on their own. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to not do its own manufacturing that does not involve treating people like machines.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Every brazilian worker has the right to voucher or a company meal, and it has to be a meal, not lunch, if working more than 6h a day (the technical maximum is 8h). They also have to stop for, at least, 1h for lunch.
About overcrowded buses... well that's just the way it "works" in Brazil, the government really don't cares about it (specially because the public transport system is private and they just bribe their way)... Welcome to Brazil, the country where everything "almost works".
Yes, this is to deal with free-riding. Because agreements cover all employees by law, the union negotiates on behalf of people who aren't is members. They become free-riders, able to reap the benefits without contributing. So called "closed shop" laws prevent this by requiring people to be members of the union (or pay a fee for the negotiating service, but that's almost always higher than just joining) so the union can continue acting on their behalf. It is, admittedly, somewhat coercive, but it's intended to address a real issue.
TV didn't tell me anything. History did. One worker versus the company has no power, no authority, no ability to create incentive for the company to do anything. Most of the workers though, they have the ability to have power and authority and the ability to make the company do something when it's needed. Things like adjusting wages for the standard of living. Things like making the workplace safe. Things like having enough positions to that employees don't work themselves into early graves.
I am currently not a member of any union nor have I ever been, but I do support the right for employees to unionize as necessary, and if I wanted I could join the union at work. I haven't felt the need, so I haven't joined yet.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Only dis time we be da owners and you whities be da slaves. Sees how yus likes dem apples muddafuckas !! An yuz stays aways from our women folk or we be hanging some mighty white fruit from the poplar trees !!
they get meals and a bus ride to work, and work in a brand new modern factory.
and they can't afford Apple products because Brazil's tariffs are so high. That is why Apple and Foxxconn are building a factory there.
Cut him some slack, the a is only two keys away from the e and it didn't change the meaning of the sentence or make it hard to parse, like loose/lose or their/they're/there do.
Free Martian Whores!
10 years from now
Mistreated Robots threaten strike
I have to agree.
Actually, as a Brazilian, I can say that Brazilian workers have more rights than the ones in the US and a lot of other places in the world.
Yet, strikes here are commonplace because people always like to bitch about everything...