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Congress Wants To Resurrect Laser-Wielding 747
Harperdog writes "Noah Schactman has a great piece on the Airborne Laser, the ray gun-equipped 747 that became a symbol of wasteful Pentagon weaponeering. Despite sixteen years and billions of dollars in development, the jet could never reliably blast a missile in trials. Now the House Armed Services Committee's Strategic Forces wants the Airborne Laser to be used to defend us against the threat of North Korea's failed missiles."
...to shoot down a failed missile than a failed missile-defense program?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
I suppose that because N. Korea failed to launch them correctly... a jet which fails to protect correctly is fitting...
timeo Danaos, et dona ferentis
Now the House Armed Services Committee's Strategic Forces wants the Airborne Laser to be used to defend us against the threat of North Korea's failed missiles."
N. Korea fired a missile, it fell apart. Pretty much just like the program. As long as N. Korea has failing missiles, why not keep a failing program? Seems logical to a politician!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
It may not be economical, but dammit lazers are cool! Congress won't give us a space program anymore, but they love weapons. Why not compromise with boeing 747s with huge freaken lazers?!
There was a joke (I guess) that circulated pretty much up until the end of the Cold War:
"If the USA wanted to cause the Soviet Union to collapse, it should drop millions of Sears catalogs in major Russian cities."
I wonder if something like this would work with the DPRK.
Although, come to think of it, anyone seen touching the things would be shot for subversive activity.
Wickedlasers put a laser on a frickin shark.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/technology/sci-tech/reports-of-shark-seen-with-frickin-laser-attached-to-its-head-turn-out-to-be-true/story-fn5iztw3-1226342846334
Generals got jelly.
-AI
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
The 747 can then also fingerprint conflict minerals.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Republicans like Mitt Romney and the Tard Party love wasting money on military boondoggles.
This, along with an almost zen-like alternate reality marked by bigotry and lies drive the modern republican, and his domesticated woman.
It's a rich tradition of corruption and stupidity that we can all be proud of. Well... absolute fucking retards like George W Bush can be proud of it.
... a failed military technology gap!
Biased article on Slashdot? No, never! Hmmm, the Related Links for this story include...
If I remember correctly, one of the biggest problems with airborne lasers was that of fuel source. It took up a large amount of space, and the chemicals in chemical lasers were very volatile. Not to mention weaponized lasers still aren't very practicable. It makes much more sense to stick with the Navy development of lasers, as they can tap onboard nuclear reactors for power. Maybe once we actually working, reliable, and accurate systems in development we can look at adding them to an airborne platform. But right now this smells more like the chance for some defense-related pork than anything else.
What has me more concerned from the article (I know, we aren't supposed to read the articles here, but Noah's been doing good work ever since his defensetech days) is that the same committee pushing this is pushing for an East Coast missile defense system. Which, living on the East Coast, makes no sense. The only states with operational SSBNs are the US, UK, France, Russia, and China. No land-based ballistic missiles will come over the East Coast, and China's not going to risk a voyage to the East Coast to attack, the West Coast would make much more sense. I don;t think we have to worry about the UK or France, and Russia still has to deal with what's left of SOSUS as well as the French, Scandinavian, and UK navies, and the Atlantic is still pretty much our backyard. I honestly cannot see any remotely legitimate threat or need for an East Coast defense line.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
As long as the missiles we're defending against are inoperable, our defenses should be iron clad.
Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Clemenza, The Godfather
I wonder how much debt will be enough for our dark overlords in Washington?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-8-2009/full-metal-budget
Yes there was!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089886/
Silence is a state of mime.
I remember that the American Physical Society (the professional organization of physicists) studied various boost-phase missile defense schemes years ago. They found that the various options, including air-borne lasers, weren't likely to be very useful in realistic scenarios (even under otherwise optimistic assumptions).
The press release says:
You can also read the full report. I don't know how the relative states of the technologies stand today.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
The United States is incredibly dependent on its space assets in support of national objectives. Directed energy weapons can not only provide offensive ASAT capabilities, but can serve as a significant defense against missile- or even space-based kinetic ASAT weapons. The advantage of a directed energy weapon is that it has the ability to travel at the speed of light and target missiles during their vulnerable boost phase within seconds. During the 1990s and 2000s, the United States pursued directed energy weapons based on megawatt-class chemical lasers. Two of systems, the Airborne Laser (ABL) and Space-Based Laser (SBL), were complementary, but never made it beyond the early testing phase.
The concept of the Airborne Laser came to fruition on a modified Boeing 747 known as the YAL-1A Airborne Laser Testbed (ABLT). In early 2010, the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) announced that ABLT successfully destroyed two test missiles, saying at the time that "The revolutionary use of directed energy is very attractive for missile defense, with the potential to attack multiple targets at the speed of light, at a range of hundreds of kilometers, and at a low cost per intercept attempt compared to current technologies." Unfortunately, ABLT was $4 billion over budget and eight years behind schedule. Political and economic realities meant that the US could "no longer continue to do everything and explore every potential technology". On February 14, 2012, MDA announced that the ABLT program was terminated, transitioning into long-term storage at the 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group at Davis Monthan AFB — "the Boneyard".
The Space-Based Laser (SBL) concept is the notion of locating a high-powered laser in space, with a similar ability to target missiles in their boost phase. A constellation of 20 SBLs would be able to provide continuous global coverage, and target nearly any launch -- including ASAT weapons. A test firing of a Space-Based Laser Integrated Flight Experiment (SBL-IFX) was originally schedule for 2012 to demonstrate SBL's capabilities. This project became so complex and expensive that MDA suspended research and development in 2002 — another victim of economic priorities, and a desire to focus resources on existing, proven kinetic systems.
If such systems are thought to have so much potential and capability, why are they no longer pursued? The answer is primarily one of cost. Further, if the US possessed such a comprehensive anti-missile and anti-ASAT capability, it is unlikely that an adversary would use a kinetic ASAT weapon. As adversaries such as China, Russia, and Iran turn to cyber, it becomes more likely that cyber, conventional jamming, and EW capabilities would be used to target US space systems. It is reasonable that the US response should be in kind. One example: China is currently fielding the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM). Instead of using complicated missile defense systems or directed energy weapons to target it, and the current US strategy is indeed one of jam, spoof — and then shoot, if necessary, with the idea being to "break as many links as possible" in the chain, including via cyber and EW. Cyber can act as a significant force multiplier against even conventional weapons systems — which can work both for and against us. China has already demonstrated the potential effectiveness of cyber capabilities against US space systems. Resources devoted to enhancing our offensive and defensive cyber capabilities in the context of space systems and missile defense is money well spent.
"Our studies indicate the weapon is totally useless in warfare."
"It's not intended for use in your kind of warfare, Roy. It's the perfect peacetime weapon. That's why it's secret."
Takeoff and landing
Gently reply
No, they want to use it to defend us from missiles launched by Syria, Iran, etc. They've just learned not to piss the Russkies off by mentioning ever using the system in their neck of the woods - even if it inevitably would be.
Anyone wonder if they used this on north Korea and just didn't tell anyone?
A stupendously bad idea:
1). Line of sight only;
2). Useless in bad weather;
3). The 747 is a giant, defenseless target;
4). How many weeks, months or years does this thing have to be on stationkeeping, before it gets a firing opportunity?
5). The power generation system is a Rube Goldberg creation if there ever was one.
Plus this system violates the dictum that you should take out high value targets with less expensive weapons. I'll bet the customized, loaded 747 is worth 10-100X whatever missile it is put up against.
Worse, existing existing anti-missile systems can likely outperform this thing and at a fraction of the cost too.
Congresscritters seek pork to defend against threats of being voted out of office.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
I'm pretty sure North Korea's failed missiles helped defend against North Korea's failed missiles actually. I still want a big ass flying laser cannon though.
producing republican fueled space ranger crap, it makes you all look like a bunch of giant religious retards stuck in the 50's...
If you have billions of dollars and want to save lives, fitting lasers to aircraft is something a 4-year-old might come up with. Flying is already incredibly safe. Consider doing something about road accidents or studying heart problems instead.
Of course, the thought that these lasers are primarily intended to keep passengers safe is a bad assumption. What is the real intention?
How do you strap a shark to a 747?
Hewlett-Packard has been building LaserJets since the 1980s...
It's easy to destroy all the warheads, decoys, and chaff. This is a trivial problem, really. None of those can deviate far from any of the others, and in space there is no place to hide. One ABM warhead can take out the whole bunch. Yep, nothing says an ABM system can't also be nuclear. Not that North Korea or Iran will be deploying advanced end-of-cold-war ICBMs any time soon of course, but the solution is trivial if they ever do.
they only thought the deficit was a huge problem when the US was spending to help regular people instead of padding war profiteer pockets.
...And Discovery wants to crash it!
I just want to see a phased plasma jetliner in the 40 megawatt range.
" "Noah Schactman has a great piece on the Airborne Laser, the ray gun-equipped 747 that became a symbol of wasteful Pentagon weaponeering. Despite sixteen years and billions of dollars in development, the jet could never reliably blast a missile in trials. Now the House Armed Services Committee's Strategic Forces wants the Airborne Laser to be used to defend us against the threat of North Korea's failed missiles." "
According to the very Wiki link in the statement it stated that it had destroyed both solid and liquid rocket fuel missles in trials. It failed to kill both in a single trial due to a beam alignment issue on the second shot. The beam him the second target, but it was terminated before the missile was destroyed.
It fulfilled it's purpose.
"to be used to defend us against the threat of North Korea's failed missiles."
the only objective congress tacidly has is to invent enough semi-plausible legislative events and topics to maintain the appearance of work, so as to avoid having to engage in solving challenging problems like homelessness or the national deficit. lately though, with such laughable moments as the senate investigation into shariah law, the men-only panel on womens health, and confirming "in god we trust" on the american currency, its starting to seem like the creative juices just arent flowing.
come on Boehner, we all know you guys are just dickin' around in business suits for slightly less than two-thirds of the year, pissing away my tax dollars on booze or insider trading. Sure, you're all-ears for the steak luncheons and lobster dinners but the minute you pour your fat arses back into those chamber seats its like nap time at shady pines. All im hearing is occasional get-off-my-lawn's crafted around the culture war while youre lining your pockets and planning your re-election.
At least try feigning interest in things like perpetual war as a foreign policy, or a reasonable moderated approach to the environment or financial market. im not asking for alot, just a sign. maybe while you're shifting that mountain of cholesterol you call a posterior around in that plush leather chair to excuse another blast of post-caviar flatulence from the hemorrhoid donut you could give a little nod as you wince. at least americans might be able to confirm youre paying attention to some of the day, if not the particular legislature discussed.
and please, we can as americans tolerate reruns. i mean, i sat through viet-raq part deux with king george and tried not to bitch too much. Just please, pick something that wasnt an abject failure with more than a decade of scientific research to attest its futility.
Good people go to bed earlier.
They need to resurrect this plane to replace the one the Discovery Channel crashed.
It just bugs the hell out of me that Congress can't get their shit together and pass a bill about keeping student loans low (when both parties agree that needs to happen), but they're cool with re-instituting a bloated failure of a missile defense program in the meantime.
Sent from my CR-48
You're not trying to protect the west coast, you're trying to defend Japan, which the DPRK considers a threat/punching bag.
Boeing YAL-1:the ABL achieves its design goals, it could destroy liquid-fueled ICBMs up to 600 km away. Tougher solid-fueled ICBM destruction range would likely be limited to 300 km, too short to be useful in many scenarios, according to a 2003 report by the American Physical Society on National Missile Defense.
Looking at a couple maps of North Korea, there are no regions 300 km away from water or foreign territory. 600 km would allow intercept for most of the country from South Korea. Looking at the launch site northwest of Pyongyang, it looks to be about 300km from Seoul.
Plus, any launch vectors that would have a hope of hitting the USA(or other countries not within range of SRBM) will rapidly leave NK territory and be within range of an appropriately positioned plane.
I don't read AC A human right
n/t
Oh, sorry, must've misread the nomenclature ;)
Hate to say this, but I'd probably be blocking certain 'reforms' of the college loan system right now. It's my belief that college tuition is currently in a bubble, much like the home market was(and it's still inflated in some areas!). Basically, dropping loan rates to 1% wouldn't help when a home that should be worth $50k is selling for $500k. Or $100k in loans for a job earning $40k. As such, I'd be pushing for legislation to pop that bubble. And one of the ways to do that is to tighten the credit market, dry up the market of people willing to get in over their heads with debt.
Basically, I'm not going to try to keep the interest for student loans low(just let me know if you meant total amount, not just interest), in favor of trying to get college tuition rates under control.
I don't read AC A human right
... frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads.
As the North Korean nukes were rather clumsy mock-ups made out of cardboard and chicken wire, no need for fancy-schmancy airborne lasers. Just fly overhead in dirigibles, and drop a few housebrinks onto them.
Terrorists, rogue nations and paedophiles are the usual justifications for large expense or intrusion to privacy. I feel sure that these things can be pressed into service here ... after all: think about the children!
PS: have they contacted RIAA for suggestions yet ?
Yeah, I know that the idea of a shark^H^H^H^H^Haeroplane wielding a laser sounds really cool to us nerds, but... when you think about all the other problems that the USA is dealing with (budget deficit, etc.), as well as some of the other crazy stunts that you guys have been trying to pull lately (*cough* SOPA and its descendants), then as someone outside of the US, I have to ask one simple question: has your government now gone completely mad?
(Admittedly, my own government isn't much better (ZA), but still.)
The map does not include the UK. The US funded the IRA for a long time and only claims to have stopped once they found that other terrorists were not too fond of them. How many civilians did the IRA kill before they were persuaded to give up because the policy had changed?
That wasn't the CIA or even US government policy you say? Sure...
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
What we need is F**ing sharks with lasers on their heads!!!
...richie - It is a good day to code.
Yes, some form of psychological deterrent is needed to avoid having other countries starting a war.
But, in terms of deterrents, trying to outgun/outpower your potential future enemies isn't the best strategy. At best, you're going to piss of any small less powerful state, their population are going to feel bullied by a big nation abusing its superior military force. At worst, this is exactly the kind of "mine is bigger" behaviour that encourages the kind of dick waving that ultimately ends in such stupid situations like mutual assured destruction (mad). When the message you're sending to the world is "don't you even dare touch us because we have the badest weapons of them all", you don't be making that many friends, you just sound like a high school bully.
The best deterrents are in the realm of politics. Try to create a situation, where the continued existence of your country as an independent state at peace is much more interesting and useful, as a situation where your country gets bombed. When it's everybody's best interest that your country remain untouched, attacks are much less likely.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
There's nothing really wrong with the basic ABL concept. There needs to be better communication between the government and industry on what can actually be done. Contracts need to be firm and enforced.
And, oh, yes: except for supplying the airframe to be modified, keep Boeing off the bidders list.
fucktards that anti-missile laser tech has improved drastically since the initial program? Non-linear optics research has advanced, and there are various techs that make lasers "self-tracking" and nearly foolproof for destroying missiles in flight. See distortion correction, phase conjugation, etc.
Forget the Koreans, we need to defend against REAL ALIENS who are lurking in the asteroid field and are building bases on remote Jovian moons RIGHT NOW. If we don't close the SPACE GAP soon they're gonna ABDUCT OUR CHILDREN and force us to become communists!!!!!!eleventy1
(How else are we going to get NASA funded again?)
--Udo.
Air Force One isn't designed for military engagements, it's designed as a highly mobile command and control center which will have a fighter escort if there's even the slightest chance of hostilities. If your highest C&C center is in the thick of combat you've already screwed up badly.
Even bombers are basically defenseless - they might have a gun turret or two, but really they depend on their fighter escorts to protect them.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
This is the military after all, not just one piddly evil corporation. And nothing says "You don't want to F* with us" like a fleet of rocket-powered sharks raining hot laser death from above!
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
"But right now this smells more like the chance for some defense-related pork than anything else."
Now that the House GOP has banned earmarking they find themselves having to smuggle their bacon home in military planes.
There have been significant strides in the last 16 years in airborn lasers. Get away form your political positions and read about them.
...would worry about defending against missiles that don't work. Or was that Pentagon contractors' congressional lobbyists?
just think about all the jobs they can create with this