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German Court Grants Motorola Xbox and Windows 7 Sales Ban

Posted by Unknown on from the google-subsidiaries-may-do-infinte-evil dept.

First time accepted submitter Celexi writes "In a surprising move, Motorola Mobility (which is to be taken over by Google), has won an injunction preventing the distribution of Windows 7 and the Xbox in Germany until Microsoft starts paying royalty fees for the patents Microsoft is said to be infringing (two patents used to display H.264 video). The ruling is suspended as of now because of a restraining order, the effect in the rest of the EU and U.S. if the ban is enforced if the restraining order is lifted, is unclear." This could go into effect as soon as May 7th, pending the result of the next U.S. case hearing.

26 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by indiegamer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In a surprising move, Motorola Mobility (which is to be taken over by Google), has won an injunction preventing the distribution of Windows 7 and the Xbox in Germany until Microsoft starts paying royalty fees for the patents

    They are unhappy that Microsoft is, legally and reasonably, getting almost 1 billion an year from various other Android manufacturers because they are using Microsoft licensed technology. After Google acquired Motorola I've been sure and waiting for them to try to hit back at Microsoft and Apple. Motorola is good for Google because it acts as both proxy in patent wars (so that Google name itself doesn't get the damage) and because then Google can control the whole Android infrastructure from the OS to devices.

    It is no wonder that other Android vendors have been worried about Google's plans. At least Microsoft strictly provides the OS for manufacturers to use. Google has its own hardware manufacturer too. If I ran a smart phone making company I would never use Android as Google just can't be trusted. At least use MeeGo or something similar open, or license WP7 from Microsoft. You can also always create your own OS.

    1. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      legally and reasonably

      Legally maybe, but reasonably?

      Microsoft licensed technology

      Were you cheering for them as they trolled companies using Linux and demanded they pay for "Linux licenses?"

      At least use MeeGo or something similar open

      And if you were even remotely successful Microsoft would still threaten you. Patents are just one of Microsoft's weapons to wield against competitors.

    2. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wow, you really don't put much effort into the pro-MS/anti google posting, huh? Couldn't even hold until the 9th word, doing the first post on the article, *and* couldn't hint about being pro-microsoft about 4 times, right?

      using a patent shakedown for extortion with manufacturers is legal and reasonable? Getting a billion a year though would certainly be in the realm of antitrust concerns though. Why do you think MS just settled with B&N for more than B&N was worth? Hint: it wasn't to work with them, and had everything to do with getting B&N to drop the case when they had MS by the balls.

      Android vendors were worried google would give preference to Motorola, not "google's plans". As of so far, google is simply carrying on doing what it does day to day and not giving Motorola priority. Had they given Motorola priority you'd hear of every manufacturer aside from Motorola jumping ship faster than you could post an article about it.

      I would never use MeeGo or WP7. MeeGo is just not developed enough and WP7 is from a company that violates antitrust on a daily basis (and has been convicted). Why would anyone consider either of those?

    3. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by norteo · · Score: 2

      As a software developer, I say, so far, "Reasonably" and "microsoft" have never really made sense in the same sentence. Microsoft is dieing on his own poison. Microsoft may not have its own hardware manufacturer but has control over many. why does everything come installed with windows? I would say the ones creating their own OS are Microsoft. Windows is the different one. And it is a design choice. Prety much everything else si some form of unix derivative. That includes Apple OSX. I do not think It is "reasonable" to say that at any point microsoft is more open than google.

    4. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 2

      In what world do you live in that publishing proprietary information on the internet doesn't get you fired? Google isn't in the habit of firing employees on a whim, so while might have thought he had approval, he clearly didn't from the people that mattered.

      As for M$'s "research", most of it involes solving problems they created, or trying to clone Google's technologies. This is largely why you don't see any innovation coming out of their R&D, just Microsoft branded rehashes of existing and better things.

      --
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    5. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by JimCanuck · · Score: 4, Informative


      Clean room software engineering is supposed to be only knowing the inputs and outputs of the piece of software your trying to implement, without any inside knowledge of the source code.

      This is how companies like Award, Phoenix and Compaq got away with cloning the IBM BIOS on the original IBM PC's as they used programmers and engineers who had never seen a copy of the code itself, and instead only provided them with "Input Command X results in Y if condition Z is met" type of documentation.

      Reading the code and then rewriting it to do the exact same thing has been a violation of software copyrights since the 1980's when many companies tried to do that to the IBM BIOS, the legality of doing what your implying in court cases has already been shown to be illegal for the last 3 decades or so.

    6. Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      And IBM lost.

      Compaq was allowed to prevail. Clean room was the norm afterwards and made clones possible.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
  2. Litigate rather than Innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nice to see Apple yet again resorting to the courts to... What's that? It's not Apple using the courts to stifle competition? It's sweet-and-dear Motorola/Google? Oh... Awkward...

    1. Re:Litigate rather than Innovate by Galestar · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's awkward that they are fighting back? Do you have any idea why Google started purchasing Motorola in the first place? So they can counter strike against MS and Apple. I for one cheer them on - maybe now that MS and Apple are under attack maybe they can come to some sort of compromise, get out of the courts and get back to building products.

      --
      AccountKiller
    2. Re:Litigate rather than Innovate by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it's Motorola. Google hasn't bought Motorola yet, and there's no evidence they're either in favor of Motorola's actions or against them.

      I know, you already knew that, I'm correcting you so that people who don't know who paid for your post know it.

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  3. Not really. by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In a surprising move

    I don't see what's so surprising about it.
    Google has proven quite a few times as of late it's just as bad as every other company.
    So why wouldn't they pull a move often used by every other bad company?

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    1. Re:Not really. by jkrise · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So why wouldn't they pull a move often used by every other bad company?

      The bad company here is Microsoft, making billions on Android, an OS which it did zilch to build. So Google is hitting back in self defense. Don't get our panties in a twist, yet.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    2. Re:Not really. by sjames · · Score: 2

      They aren't shaking down MS customers. They had the decency to go directly to MS.

  4. For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All I have to say is I told you so.

    Like Motorolla would be happy letting you download and use a HTML 5 browser for free. Obviously you simply can't.

    With this and the potential ruling that merely syntax is copyrightable in the Oracle VS Google case 2 things will happen. Either people will see how rediculious patents and copyright are and change. Or the bribery will continue and no one but big pockets will compete. Hell, MS has big pockets and still are getting nailed. This is getting nuts.

    It seems China and India are the only ones not crazy here.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Like Motorolla would be happy letting you download and use a HTML 5 browser for free. Obviously you simply can't.

      Well, you can if you use the built-in licensed decoder.

      An interesting question is the details - h.264, unlike cellphones, is licensed under a patent pool. That you, you can either do like we have in cellphones and license all the patents one-by-one (have fun!), or decide to license the whole group of them together in one fell swoop. This is done because the MPEG standards group created the MPEG licensing authority (MPEG-LA) that basically has the authority to license the patents used all at once.

      Pay that license fee, and you're done. If Motorola's patents are in that patent pool, then Microsoft would already HAVE a license since they're paying for the other h.264 patents anyhow.

      So something is not quite adding up here. They're effectively FRAND patents (since anyone can come up to the MPEG-LA, say they want to license to do X with h.264, pay the fee (on the fee schedule) and walk away), so...

      As for WebM - it never had a chance. It was announced and standardized only a couple of years ago. Thing is, it takes YEARS for it to make it in hardware. The first GPUs with WebM support would probably hit late 2012-2013, with expected mass shipments by holiday 2013 (i.e., when you and I can buy stuff with it in).

      Yes, it takes that long - hell, I was playing with h.264 back in 2003 (when DivX reigned supreme).

      So something is not quite right here - if Microsoft paid their h.264 licensing fees, the Motorola patents should automatically be included as part of the deal.

  5. Hello Mr. Troll by Jeng · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ok, so you submit stories under one name, create a new account, and then post the very second the article is submitted.

    We get it, you have an agenda you want to promote, but you don't want to do it under your own account because it is already known you are just a shill and this makes it harder to ignore you.

    I just have one request, fuck off.

    Slashdot Editors, if you continue to be apparently complicit in helping him push his agenda then people will quit having discussions on this site. It will badly damage /.'s reputation and in the end your bottom line.

    --
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  6. Doesn't mean jack by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously, ponder for a moment what would happen if Nebraska decided to ban MS products. Well? Right. People from Nebraska wanting MS products will buy them outside Nebraska.

    It's not much different for the EU.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Doesn't mean jack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ha ha, good one! We all know that there are no computers in Nebraska. Nice try.

  7. Motorola is not Google yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Motorola / Google deal hasn't closed yet, until it does Google can not control legally Motorola. Let Google take control of the company before you start blaming them. Motorola is struggling tech company with a lot IP so it really shouldn't surprise anyone that it turned to IP litigation just like so many other tech companies on their way out. Until Google takes over this is Motorola hedging in case the merger falls through.

  8. Whaaaaaaa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft gets $15 per Android handset for patents so weak they won't reveal in public. So if Google sticks it to Microsoft the world is a better place and good on them.

    To use Microsoft's own phrase "Whaaaaaaaa".

    Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

  9. Re:Software patents by AwaxSlashdot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those are not software patents. WiFi and H.264 are not software.

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  10. Retalliation by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Aren't Motorola acting in self defense? As i understand it, MS has been trying to shake down android handset manufacturers for a while and motorola are one of the few that refused to give in to their demands.

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  11. What I want to know is... by jonwil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    how a court ruling in a US court has any bearing on the German legal system and why the German legal system (and whichever authorities are responsible for enforcing the decision by the German judge) has to even care what the US court said and cant just say "screw the US, we are going to enforce the ban starting right now"

    Or is there some sort of international treaty that applies here?

    1. Re:What I want to know is... by Sc4Freak · · Score: 2

      The German courts and legal system doesn't listen to the US judge. That much is patently obvious, because the US has no jurisdiction in Germany.

      But Motorola is a US company who does business in the US. Hence it must abide by US laws and rulings. The US judge said to Motorola, "even if you win the case in Germany, you must not follow through on the ban on MS products in Germany until I have made my ruling here." That doesn't infringe on German jurisdiction.

  12. Re:Who wins here? by rachit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Er, the lawyers?

  13. Re:Software patents by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Despite having "software" in the name, "software patents" include all patents on algorithms and protocols—anything which can be implemented in software—of which WiFi and H.264 are obvious examples. So long as the patent would cover a software implementation, it's a software patent; the fact that any software can also be implemented in fixed hardware is irrelevant.

    If the patent only covers a particular was of implementing the algorithm or protocol in hardware, and thus would not apply to any software implementation, then it's still an unjust act of aggression, and a net loss to society, but it's not a software patent.

    --
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