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Homeland Security: New Body Scanners Have Issues

Fluffeh writes "Although the DHS has spent around $90 million upgrading magnetometers to the new body scanners, federal investigators 'identified vulnerabilities in the screening process' at domestic airports using the new machines, according to a classified internal Department of Homeland Security report. Exactly how bad the body scanners are is not being divulged publicly, but the Inspector General's report (PDF) made eight separate recommendations on how to improve screening. To quiet privacy concerns, the authorities are also spending $7 million to 'remove the human factor from the image review process' and replace the passenger's image with an avatar."

181 comments

  1. Not perfect???? by Troyusrex · · Score: 0, Troll

    Oh no! something isn't perfect so it must be a huge scandal! And they spent $90 million! Government could run for almost 30 minutes extra if they had that money back!

    1. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But still... Spend 90 mil, and don't even bother building a prototype, or testing it out on, I don't know, maybe just one at first?

    2. Re:Not perfect???? by Tx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the imperfection means you can casually walk onto a plane with a pocketful of 12 inch blades, then it's worth taking a bit of notice.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    3. Re:Not perfect???? by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is we don't know how imperfect it is. Considering these machines allegedly broke a medical device in recent news. Considering that U.S. citizens are being made to go through humiliating procedures that these machines are a part of and may or may not work well? "Exactly how bad the body scanners are is not being divulged publicly" is a big thing.

      Also $90 million? That is $90 million less towards the debt. That is $90 million that could be towards STEM promotion in education. That is $90 million that is money that could have been used as an incentive or subsidy to get businesses to hire more employees (if you believe in trickle down) or applied to the people directly (if you believe in trickle up). That $90 million could pay ~5500 people to work for one year at minimum wage.

      Whether you think it could go elsewhere or no where, why spend it on a program that isn't working? That's just direct cost anyways.

      Think about how many people fly. Let's make this easier, how many people fly for business. How much time is wasted going through this extra security that may or may not be working to suitable levels. Multiple that extra time by their salaries. That is another economic hit.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
    4. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That $90 million would never go to education, or subsidies, or trickle up/down strategies. The government has a pathological need to avoid spending money where it's needed most, in favor of spending it on stuff like these body scanners that don't even work properly.

    5. Re:Not perfect???? by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How to stop a determined suicide bomber getting onto a flight with a device powerful enough to down the plane ... you can't it's impossible

      All the security at airports does two things only :

      1) makes the passengers feel safe enough so that they will continue to fly (this is debatable...)

      2) deter all but the most determined and clever enough terrorists ...who hopefully the government are already aware of by other means

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    6. Re:Not perfect???? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      You know... since we could spend the $90 million on hiring subsidies that will really just fund companies that would be hiring anyway, or giving a single dollar to one third of the country's population, why not spend it elsewhere, like supporting America's technology industry? We could be funding the software and other engineers who are needed to fix the machines.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    7. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why? What's he going to do with them that he couldn't do on the ground?

      You can't hijack a plane and crash it into a building anymore. That shit stopped working before 9/11 was even over. Why should I give a fuck if another passenger has a pocketknife? I don't care if they have a pocketknife on a bus, do I?

    8. Re:Not perfect???? by Theophany · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forgot

      3) treats small children and little old ladies like terrorism suspects because their 15 minute training video neglected to mention that their standard issue plastic badge and 12-pack of Krispy Kremes are not substitutes for common sense.

    9. Re:Not perfect???? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When the imperfection means you can casually walk onto a plane with a pocketful of 12 inch blades, then it's worth taking a bit of notice.

      But at least they protect the other passengers from your dangerous insulin pump.

    10. Re:Not perfect???? by evilRhino · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just think of it as an oncology research subsidy. Having a larger patient pool will mean more demand and also more research subjects.

    11. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Right, because radicalized old ladies would never blow up a plane: they have too much to live for.

    12. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. I am waiting to see the rate of corneal cancer start to climb. In the meantime, I fly as seldom as I possibly can, and when I do, I ask for the pat-down. The TSA agents so far have been far more respectful of my anatomical integrity (and dignity, in fact) than some unproven scanning device ever could be.

    13. Re:Not perfect???? by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      2) deter all but the most determined and clever enough terrorists ...

      There's nothing particularly clever about beating security - the C4 goes in the same body cavities as people use every day to get drugs and cellphones into prisons.

      Or if you prefer liquid explosives, just get several people with permitted-size bottles of liquid to go through and combine the liquid in a bigger bottle (or plastic bag) on the other side.

      Or...any of many other obvious ways to do it.

      As for determination...they're religious whacko suicide bombers. Enough said?

      (All this assumes that terrorists are magically impotent if they can't get through Airport security, which is laughable...just bomb the queues for the scanners)

      --
      No sig today...
    14. Re:Not perfect???? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      In this case, it won't mostly go to that- and it's being spent on a system with dubious use to begin with.

      Sorry...it's money that could and SHOULD be spent elsewhere.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    15. Re:Not perfect???? by shock1970 · · Score: 0

      These machines are in the Philadelphia airport. My first time going through one, I didn't know that I had to remove *everything* from my pockets. It was sensitive enough to pick up my wallet in my back pocket which contained no metal other than what is found inside of credit cards and my Patco FreedomCard train pass. It also picked up my belt buckle... small and thin... not one of those WWF styles.

      What the TSA people saw on the monitor was a mono-color human silhouette, with little squares of another color indicating the general area of where the questionable items were on my person.

      I was asked if I had anything on my person, and I was patted down just in those areas identified on the monitor. My hands were also swabbed for a particle detector. After that, I was allowed to move on.

      Overall, I think the machines worked fine. And while the $90 million spent on machines is a lot of cash, that money went to pay people who did good work in manufacturing the machines, assembling parts, writing code, provided maintenance of the buildings they were built in and so on. It wasn't just thrown out the window. That money went to working individuals who will pay taxes on that money who will give the government an opportunity to pay off the national debt. Furthermore, if those $90 million machines prevent just one terrorist plot that may not have been picked up by the previous generation of detectors, then it will have paid for itself multiple times over.

      IMHO, not perfect but good enough.

    16. Re:Not perfect???? by berashith · · Score: 2

      it is fun to dismiss this so casually, but when you look at the fact that the company that was awarded the money is tightly integrated, if not owned outright, by former members of government, then this becomes corruption of the highest order. Just by having a few friends in good places, you can get a $90 million contract for things that dont do their primary purpose as well as what was already in place. In government terms, this isnt a huge amount of money, at the personal level of the crooks pushing this scam on us, it is an enormous amount of MY money. Hang them I say

    17. Re:Not perfect???? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you should be. Not that I really think people should be so worried about this kind of stuff. If the terrorists wanted to cause problems, there's so many other things they could blow up than air planes. Taking a bomb on a passenger train would probably cause just as much, if not more damage than taking one on an airplane.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    18. Re:Not perfect???? by berashith · · Score: 1

      The thing is , it wont stop the terrorist plan that accounts for these machines. The machines stopped you from wearing a belt buckle and carrying your train pass through. There are documented cases of metal blades getting through. Fortunately the blades ( and your belt buckle ) were not intended for maicious use. It is also forutnate that in both of these cases the hardened cockpit doors would have prevented a major tragedy that is only possible on or with an airplane. You could use the knife to hack up people in a confined area, but you can also do that in a shopping mall or high school.

      If you want to just call this a jobs program for all those tax payers, then that is fine, but there is no reason to actually use the crap that those people have built.

    19. Re:Not perfect???? by geekmux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right, because radicalized old ladies would never blow up a plane: they have too much to live for.

      If you truly feel that "radicalized old ladies" are that much of a threat to our society, then please come forth with your blue-haired statistics before Congress.

      Toss something in there about why we won't "think of the children", and you'll have a nice one-two whammy to hit common sense with.

    20. Re:Not perfect???? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      3) Most importantly, it conditions American people to expect subjugation and humiliation when they are dealing with government officials.

      As part of the larger pattern of US Corp/Gov't actions, it's the only answer that makes sense.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    21. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how many people fly for business. How much time is wasted going through this extra security that may or may not be working to suitable levels. Multiple that extra time by their salaries

      If I was getting paid while going through "security" then I might be willing to start flying again. My pay only starts when I arrive on site, and stops when I leave the building. Actually it's still not worth it at my current wages.

    22. Re:Not perfect???? by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      Yes, and let's break all our windows to give work to the glaziers.

    23. Re:Not perfect???? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      It was sensitive enough to pick up my wallet in my back pocket which contained no metal other than what is found inside of credit cards and my Patco FreedomCard train pass. It also picked up my belt buckle... small and thin... not one of those WWF styles.

      Notice that all of those things were on the front or back of your body. Anything on the side - where your body is not a backdrop to provide contrast - is practically invisible to the machine.

      if those $90 million machines prevent just one terrorist plot that may not have been picked up by the previous generation of detectors, then it will have paid for itself multiple times over.

      What if they don't make any difference at all? You know the TSA has not caught one single terrorist since the creation of the agency. Not one. They have, however, really decimated the dignity of the american traveler.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    24. Re:Not perfect???? by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Exactly. All government spending is just returning money to the public, in one form or another. It doesn't "create" jobs, it doesn't "subsidize" anything in the long run.

      My point is that arguments about all the things the money could do are equally ridiculous. The one thing the money should do is never be collected from the public in the first place, but it's too late for that.

      That is $90 million that could be towards STEM promotion in education. That is $90 million that is money that could have been used as an incentive or subsidy to get businesses to hire more employees (if you believe in trickle down) or applied to the people directly (if you believe in trickle up). That $90 million could pay ~5500 people to work for one year at minimum wage.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    25. Re:Not perfect???? by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      WAT? You do realize that I was making fun of you by using the broken windows fallacy?

      Investing in STEM education is an actual investment in the productivity of our nation. Paying glaziers to fix our windows is not an investment.

      Teach a man to fish. Give a man a fish. Teaching a man to fish is useful. Just giving him fish is not as useful (unless, of course, not having fish is the only thing holding him back.)

    26. Re:Not perfect???? by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 1

      And most importantly: 4) Create a large, unsecured crowd, that would be ideal for a random bombing that would also effectively shut down an airport and possibly the nation (think O'Hare's security checkpoints bombed).

    27. Re:Not perfect???? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      Yes. The only reason any of us do not slaughter hundreds of innocent men, women, and children with a suicide bomb is because we have so much to live for. Very logical. That's why every suicide attempt always includes multiple homicides. Because if you're gonna die you may as well take as many people with you as possible. It's amazing that blowing yourself up in a particularly long and winding security line at the airport isn't more popular than it is. Thank god we have brave pedophile peeping tom pervs to protect us. They aren't working there to see naked 10 year old girls and touch people's genitals. They are there because they want to keep us safe. And anyone who questions that is a 'domestic extremist' who needs to be watched very closely by Homeland Security.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    28. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teach a man to fish. Give a man a fish. Teaching a man to fish is useful. Just giving him fish is not as useful

      Depends. Maybe we have too many fish and they're stinking up the place. Give a few away, suddenly things are smelling better.

    29. Re:Not perfect???? by ZiakII · · Score: 1

      Posting to undo a incorrect mod. /sigh I liked the old system where one misclick didn't instantly moderate a comment. Now, I have to post to undo 1 bad mod, and forfeit the other 6 posts I moderated.

    30. Re:Not perfect???? by Ill_Omen · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, all this "security" does force bad people to work a little harder to bypass it. And that extra work means more chances to foil plots before they hatch. Someone mentioned the possibility of combining many small containers of liquid explosive into a larger bomb. Which would probably work if they all made it through. But it would require several conspirators instead of a single one, leading to several more ways for the plan to fall apart, hopefully before it even got to the airport.

    31. Re:Not perfect???? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      If you buy that government bureaucracy will make more productive choices than the free market.

      Which it very well might, but just assuming the conclusion doesn't really make for a compelling argument.

    32. Re:Not perfect???? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      So do you know what your radiation exposure was for this machine? Since they won't tell us... or let anyone test it, I am going to say no. In which case stopping just one terrorist is absolutely *not* worth it. By that logic just ground all planes forever. It will stop one... I promise. Oh and I have this rock which will keep you safe in the mall.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    33. Re:Not perfect???? by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Maybe we have too many politicians and they're stinking up the place. Give a few away, suddenly things are smelling better.

      FTFY :)

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    34. Re:Not perfect???? by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      as for your number 1), more like "Help make flying so unpleasant you don't bother to fly anywhere and just drive instead." as for 2) The terrorists don't need to blow anything up anymore to scare americans, just let someone get caught trying something and the hysteria rips into the gov who continue to perpetuate the scam of the TSA....

    35. Re:Not perfect???? by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Forget O'Hare, America is a consumer culture, blow up the folks trying to already kill each other to get the newest "Tickle Me Elmo" at midnight at Walmart on Black Friday. You wanna scare American's? Hit them where they live and breathe....

    36. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if you truly feel there are not people out there that would use old ladies as a threat if they knew that was the weak link in our security process, you are delusional.

    37. Re:Not perfect???? by El+Torico · · Score: 2

      What, you didn't see this ground-breaking documentary on this very problem?

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    38. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone mentioned the possibility of combining many small containers of liquid explosive into a larger bomb. Which would probably work if they all made it through. But it would require several conspirators instead of a single one, leading to several more ways for the plan to fall apart, hopefully before it even got to the airport.

      Which has been shown by explosives experts and chemists to be several things. 1) Not chemically feasible. While it is possible, under controlled circumstances, to make a multipart combinatorial liquid bomb, it is magnitudes of ridiculous to attempt it in an airplane bathroom. 2) Even on the far astronomically slim chance that a group of jokers actually pulls off the combination, they wouldn't be able to do so in a quantity enough to do much more than smoke out a bathroom.

      Frankly, I'm waiting for a suicide bomber to blow the shit out of a TSA security checkpoint. LOTS of tightly packed people, expensive equipment, huge psychological impact. The checkpoints are a prime target these days, forget the plane.

    39. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im going to have to say thats a no. most are there because it is an "easy" job that pays and they want an ego boost, because they were bullied in high school or were the bullies in high school but the Police Academy actually had standards and so rejected them.

    40. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea...I've accidentally brought drugs on more planes than I care to admit. Gotten full pat-downs with some of it still in my pockets. Doesn't even have to go in body cavities.

    41. Re:Not perfect???? by internerdj · · Score: 1

      "assumes that terrorists are magically impotent" So those aren't the kinds of issues that we are having with the scanners? Makes me breathe a sigh of relief.

    42. Re:Not perfect???? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I'm a bit suspicious of your nearly 100% positive review of these machines. They have been proven to have a 50% false positive rate and they only work for things like wallets and belt buckles and not for flat pancakes of plastic explosive taped to your sides and maybe your stomach and back as well. You did read about Jon Corbett's test right?

      So if you are interested in seeing who has the fattest wallets to steal from they are superb machines. If you want to prevent people from bringing high explosives on the aircraft they're not so good.Metal detectors are much better at detecting weapons. Neither machine is likely to detect explosives, but the metal detector has a better chance of detecting a detonator.

      I would personally be willing to use a millimeter wave scanner with the auto detection software. I am not willing to use the x-ray machines or the mmw machines without the detection software. Nor am I willing to have my balls and ass crack fondled by some drooling horny closet homosexual. If the mmw false positives on me I would be willing to accept a very quick non-invasive, non-genital patdown. No touching "where the leg meets the body". No hands even near the crotch area. No scalp massages or under the waistband touching and no hands sliding up and down my crack. If the screener tries to sexually assault me by touching my genitals without my permission then my fist will meet his face. I have every right to defend myself against sexual assault.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    43. Re:Not perfect???? by geekmux · · Score: 0

      And if you truly feel there are not people out there that would use old ladies as a threat if they knew that was the weak link in our security process, you are delusional.

      Before calling ME delusional here, perhaps you could present your evidence backing up this claim. It is FUD bullshit like this that got things like PATRIOT Act passed in the first place. I'm done watching FUD destroy my Rights, which ironically are being destroyed to protect our "Freedom".

      But, perhaps you're right. Maybe we could get to the bottom of all this "faceless" terrorism and put a proper label on it...you know, like "AARP".

    44. Re:Not perfect???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uh, just walk up to the baggage counter, hand them a large paper-wrapped parcel, and tell them you want it shipped to your favorite city. They'll pop it into the belly of the plane without a second look, and the TSA has no jurisdiction over it.

      BTW, no need to be on the aircraft (but you can be, if you wish). All the big planes have wifi, now, and you can simply use An App For That (Takes "HijackThis" to a whole new level). Or simply ransom the flight. Whatever.

      The TSA is an egregious abomination.

      More likely, more successful, and less costly would be to simply poison a water supply.

    45. Re:Not perfect???? by chromas · · Score: 1

      Anything on the side...is practically invisible to the machine.

      "Face left."
      Problem solved; give me $90m.

    46. Re:Not perfect???? by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      as for your number 1), more like "Help make flying so unpleasant you don't bother to fly anywhere and just drive instead." as for 2) The terrorists don't need to blow anything up anymore to scare americans, just let someone get caught trying something and the hysteria rips into the gov who continue to perpetuate the scam of the TSA....

      Why do you think all of the terrorists that get caught are doing it with bombs supplied by the government. If you don't have real terrorists to fight, then you can't justify the expense of the TSA and the scanners. But if you talk a few people into taking this fake bomb and then arrest them you get some free news coverage and a renewed sense of fear in the populous. Is seems so obvious that is amazes me that more people don't realize what is happening. Even the latest bomb that was stopped was actually an undercover agent that had it. It makes me wonder if the attacks on 9-11 were faked also.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    47. Re:Not perfect???? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      There are so many weak links in our security that old ladies are hardly the first on the list. People have walked onto planes (through TSA checkpoints, complete with their vaunted X-ray machines and patdowns) with knives and even guns. Not to mention that one doesn't even need to get to the plane - just synchronously detonate several strap-on shrapnel bombs at the checkpoints of any busy airport.

    48. Re:Not perfect???? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Or if you prefer liquid explosives, just get several people with permitted-size bottles of liquid to go through and combine the liquid in a bigger bottle (or plastic bag) on the other side.

      It's even easier than that: you put it in one large bottle, and label that "saline solution".

    49. Re:Not perfect???? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      "Face left."
      Problem solved; give me $90m.

      Now you have doubled the amount of time spent being scanned - remember the machines are intended to speed up the process. You've also doubled the amount of radiation exposure too.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    50. Re:Not perfect???? by chromas · · Score: 1

      Well, damn the side effects, I solved the problem! But I thought the idea was to harass people and make money. If they want to speed things up then they can just close the theater.

    51. Re:Not perfect???? by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the government isn't doing itself any favors at this point, they're just pushing a little too hard and people are waking up to the fact that the emperor has no clothes...

  2. Another DHS Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is getting to the point of ridiculousness due to the another article bringing up issues with the body scanners. The public really needs to send letters and sign petitions in mass to get rid of this expensive cancer causing paper weights.

    1. Re:Another DHS Fail by boristdog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cancer causing is 100% correct. A friend of mine is a radiation oncologist. He has worked with every type of radiation emittable by a machine for many, many years. He knows the effects of all types of radiation on human flesh, it's his job. He uses various types of radiation to cure cancer and a host of other maladies. The man is an expert.

      He also refuses to step into one of the scanners, and he has advised me and everyone he knows to avoid stepping into them.

      'nuff said.

    2. Re:Another DHS Fail by x0 · · Score: 1

      This is getting to the point of ridiculousness due to the another article bringing up issues with the body scanners. The public really needs to send letters and sign petitions in mass to get rid of this expensive cancer causing paper weights.

      I'd go so far as to say shitcan the entirety of the TSA. Apart from violating the 4th amendment, they are useless security theatre with no redeeming qualities.

      m

      --
      In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
    3. Re:Another DHS Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree: the TSA's only redeeming quality is the fact that they act as a lawyer shield for the airlines, because they assume the liability for terrorist attacks instead of the airlines. Just another way for businesses to socialize losses and privatize profits.

    4. Re:Another DHS Fail by swillden · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine works in radiology research. He holds the same opinion.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Another DHS Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [AC from parent]

      I should also add that the TSA also "shows" the public what the government is doing to stop the big bad terrorists that haven't been successful (no thanks to the TSA) in over 11 years. That is worth more to politicians than actually making the country secure and preserving our Constitutional rights.

    6. Re:Another DHS Fail by ghotibrains · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine works in radiology research. He holds the same opinion.

      I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, and I wholeheartedly agree.

    7. Re:Another DHS Fail by swillden · · Score: 2

      A friend of mine works in radiology research. He holds the same opinion.

      I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, and I wholeheartedly agree.

      Okay, if you prefer:

      http://radiology.rsna.org/content/259/1/6.extract
      http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/content/145/1/75
      http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/171/12/1129
      http://www.propublica.org/article/scientists-cast-doubt-on-tsa-tests-of-full-body-scanners
      http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0267364908000708

      Find me similar articles from professionals in the relevant fields and not associated with the TSA that say the opposite.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    8. Re:Another DHS Fail by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Now just ramp that up a little bit. Don't forget http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3685264, so they are giving you a burst of radiation right before you going to get an extended burst of radiation. Now add in your typical sun bathing holiday and the return trip is even more dangerous. Just to add in that touch more fluorescent lights http://www.arpansa.gov.au/radiationprotection/factsheets/is_cfl.cfm and of course you have a ton of mobile phones in the vicinity as well as airport radar http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/rf/radar.asp.

      I am sick of the repeated lie, don't worry ours is safe, on it's own heh heh. Compound affect, a modern US airport would have to be one of the most dangerous places to be. There more than anywhere else they should be taking steps to reduce exposure not add to it.

      So let's start seeing some real numbers on total exposure. Drive to Airport exposed to airport radar, stand under bright florescent for a couple of hours, everybody using mobile phones lots of people in very close range, go through xray, exposed to extra radiation during flight, land at another airport with radar, couple of more hours under florescent lights, then go to beach and get sunburn. Skin cancer rates rising, use sunblock? Now we need a 24 hour a day 7 day week radiation block and they haven't finished yet. They'll keep adding in more 'safe on it's own devices' until future current youth will pay a huge price when they finally become short lived adults.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  3. Oooooo! I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the DHS should allow folks to pay to have their own avatars for screening. It would raise millions! And there are plenty of choices! and of course there are these.

    1. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      Actually, they're hiring Cameron to replace the images with the blue guys from Avatar.

    2. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should just hack the system so that everyone gets an Osama Bin Laden avatar. That should spice things up for 10 minutes or so while the airport gets locked down...

    3. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      So does the average TSA agent view Bin Laden's killing the same way that they probably view the moon landings?

    4. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      Please, they'll see an Arabic man with a beard and turban, they won't care who it is.

    5. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by FingerDemon · · Score: 1

      So, I choose the Dr. Manhattan avatar and the whole things starts all over again.

      --

      "Contrarily the lookaside buffer might not be the panacea... "
    6. Re:Oooooo! I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can also sell hats!

  4. Human Factor by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When they said they were removing the "human factor" I assumed that meant they were removing the TSA agents looking at the images and replacing it with some kind of image analysis software... not slapping the equivalent of a black bar over the naughty bits.

    Also, I'm surprised they only estimate it to cost $7 mil... seems like it's not enough for sufficient profits even with the inevitable budget overruns.

    1. Re:Human Factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I support the idea of replacing the TSA agents with fictional characters from Avatar. That makes more sense than the security theater we've been engaging in.

    2. Re:Human Factor by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      isn't the whole point of the scanner lost though if you overlay something on top of the pics?
      the point of the scanner would be to see the naked body - but if you don't want that, why bother with the new scanner in the first place?

      and imho certifying for the scanners would be a higher concern, no?

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Human Factor by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I always wondered why they can't distort the images like a hall of mirrors or something. That would be easy to do.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Human Factor by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Supposedly Automatic Target Detection is software that analyzes the raw images themselves looking for anomalies. In Germany they found the system to result in something like a 50% false positive rate. So it's far from perfect. But the idea is to shut down the peep/perv/wank booths and replace the horny human pedophiles wanking to real images of little girl vaginas with a relatively indifferent computer program which won't be quite as titillated by thousands of naked bodies everyday. Of course the TSA is not exactly known for their honesty. Some believe that the peep booths will continue to operate and that the cartoon body would just be for show.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    5. Re:Human Factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also highly illogical to institute an 'avatar' since they'll need the original images when legal prosecution comes into play.

      Short of profits for the Chertoff Group, I can't see anything useful coming out of using the scanners. Ever.

    6. Re:Human Factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will replace the human-operated switches with computer-controlled relays, press the Lockout Changes button and then wonder why the computer won't let them make changes until it plays tic-tac-toe and simulates war thousands of times to learn that it can't win, despite the fact that the simulation is all it had been running before.

  5. Privacy concerns by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

    I certainly hope replacing the passenger's naked photo with a paper doll isn't enough to "quiet" the privacy concerns.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    1. Re:Privacy concerns by Extremus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I never quite understood this privacy thing. What is the problem of someone watching a shadow image of your genitalia? Even if some agent chuckle a bit at your not-so-male panties or broccoli-shaped penis, what is the matter? Probably this sort of thing gets boring after some days having to look at this machine...

    2. Re:Privacy concerns by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My point was that the principle of searching travelers without probable cause is far more offensive than being viewed naked.

      That said, there is no reason to believe it's just one pervert viewing your naked picture (or the naked picture of your kids). The scanners capture digital images which can be easily stored or transmitted in several ways, the most obvious of which is pointing a smart phone's camera at the monitor.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    3. Re:Privacy concerns by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably this sort of thing gets boring after some days having to look at this machine...

      Why don't you ask the hot girls who have to go back and forth through the scanners while they call a few more people over to have a look, "just to be sure".

      Or the pedophiles who've been arrested while in the employ of the TSA.

      Just because you don't mind, or you think you'd get bored, doesn't mean everybody else feels the same.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Privacy concerns by Extremus · · Score: 0

      I think everybody agrees that some kind of probing is needed. I prefer to show at once that I am not carrying nothing dangerous to other passengers rather then having to take out my shoes or the belt that hold my trousers (and then incurring the risk of having to show my actual body to the authorities).

      Besides, I still don't see reason in your argument. You don't say, for instance, what actual harm such imaginary pervert can do to you or your kids. I think what makes people feel uncomfortable is the idea that there could be someone enjoying the images on the other side of the machine. But the fact is that: (a) this is quite improbable, given the security measures on these agents; and (b) it is not much different from anywhere else (how difficult is to smuggle a microcamera inside the changing room of a children clothing shop?).

    5. Re:Privacy concerns by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      I never quite understood this privacy thing. What is the problem of someone watching a shadow image of your genitalia? Even if some agent chuckle a bit at your not-so-male panties or broccoli-shaped penis, what is the matter? Probably this sort of thing gets boring after some days having to look at this machine...

      Well, in what other context in your life would you essentially be strip searched? The answer is probably nowhere.

      So, why do you feel we should subject ourselves to it at the airport? Why should we accept this bit of indignity on the basis that the high-school dropout with a one week training course watching it is probably bored by now?

      You go ahead and feel free to get into it anytime you like ... me, I will continue to refuse to get into the damned thing. Largely because I simply don't believe them to be safe, and also because I fail to see why I should make it easy on them.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think everybody agrees that some kind of probing is needed.

      Do we? Why?

      You don't say, for instance, what actual harm such imaginary pervert can do to you or your kids.

      You're teaching kids it's OK for people to photograph or grope them. You're also teaching them it's normal to receive cancer for the privilege of being treated as guilty until proven innocent.

      it is not much different from anywhere else (how difficult is to smuggle a microcamera inside the changing room of a children clothing shop?).

      There are two problems with this sentence:
      - you're saying XYZ is bad, so it's ok if ABC is also bad.
      - it's now kinda hard to explain to your kids why those cameras are bad, but the cameras at the airport are good.

    7. Re:Privacy concerns by Extremus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cases of abuse have to be dealt with disciplinary actions, as with any other area of society. In any case, I doubt they are widespread. Also, pedophiles exist everywhere. For instance, there are numerous cases of pedophile teachers; but I doubt you feel uncomfortable to send your kids to the school.

    8. Re:Privacy concerns by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      Because it's my right to decide who sees my broccoli-shaped penis and not-so-male panties, plain and simple just as it's my right to decide who touches those same things. Unless there is a clear and articulable suspicion of wrongdoing the government's supposed to butt out. Keep that camel's nose out of my pants, please.

    9. Re:Privacy concerns by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I never quite understood this privacy thing.

      Well you are certainly giving that impressiion.

      What is the problem of someone watching a shadow image of your genitalia?

      Please post one of these 'shadow' images you refer to so that we can see for ourselves how shadowy they are. In fact they resemble black and white photographs far more than they do 'shadows'. While the images are not as wank-worthy as those from the x-ray scanners you can still see quite a lot.

      Even if some agent chuckle a bit at your not-so-male panties or broccoli-shaped penis, what is the matter?

      The problem is that not everyone wants to display their naked body in order to exercise their basic human right to travel freely. Yes, I know you are going to launch into some speech about how the right to travel is not protected by the constitution, and that it is merely a privilege which the government generously allows as long as you abide by its rules and that we are lucky that the government allows us to even leave our homes. Yet another privilege which can be revoked at any time for any reason.

      Probably this sort of thing gets boring after some days having to look at this machine...

      It gets boring in the same way that men become bored with seeing naked women. In the same way that porn gets boring. I'm sure you are right. I'm sure that there is not a single TSA employee who has ever been aroused by the images of a beautiful naked girl on the screen.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    10. Re:Privacy concerns by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      I think everybody agrees that some kind of probing is needed. I prefer to show at once that I am not carrying nothing dangerous to other passengers rather then having to take out my shoes or the belt that hold my trousers (and then incurring the risk of having to show my actual body to the authorities).

      Besides, I still don't see reason in your argument. You don't say, for instance, what actual harm such imaginary pervert can do to you or your kids. I think what makes people feel uncomfortable is the idea that there could be someone enjoying the images on the other side of the machine. But the fact is that: (a) this is quite improbable, given the security measures on these agents; and (b) it is not much different from anywhere else (how difficult is to smuggle a microcamera inside the changing room of a children clothing shop?).

      No, not everybody agrees some kind of probing is needed. People really do have certain inalienable rights. Likewise, just because some people might have a pot farm in their basement or a meth lab doesn't mean the "authorities" should be able to enter anybody's house without cause.

      It is a serious thing to surrender one's rights and it should only happen for serious reasons. Remember that not one thing the TSA does would have prevented 9/11. TSA is a knee-jerk reaction that costs a lot of money but in the end add very little additional security.

    11. Re:Privacy concerns by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      To me, these scanners are the digital age equivalent of strutting someone around naked with a black bag over their head. That the person isn't easily identifiable doesn't change the fact that it's degrading, humiliating, and strips us not just of our clothes, but also of our dignity.

    12. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, what is the big deal with a search-without-probable-cause on ordinary citizens trying to exercise their right of free movement? The only possible issue is whether our junk is on screen or not, right? No deeper concerns there at all.

    13. Re:Privacy concerns by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      The scanners capture digital images which can be easily stored or transmitted in several ways,

      But just to be clear, that's not theft.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    14. Re:Privacy concerns by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Looking at the CBS article, I'm not terribly convinced. Yes, they have looked at complaints but they never established a baseline 'frisk' rate. It would be trivial for an 'journalistic' organization such as CBS to station a half dozen monitors at some checkpoints for a day and ascertain the male:female and age distribution of people screened and rescreened with the machines.

      That would be useful and an interesting journalistic exercise.

      The referred news 'story' is just noise.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    15. Re:Privacy concerns by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Cases of abuse have to be dealt with ..."

      Right. That is what we have all been saying. The TSA scanning people is a blatant case of abuse of power, and it needs to be dealt with by doing away with such a ridiculous violation of our 4th amendment rights. You see, you had the right idea, but the wrong scope.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re:Privacy concerns by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect, I don't see why any probing is needed. Terrorism, not just real, but even the lone incompetent idiots (who usually fail anyway) are so far and few between that I would happily board a plane, anonymously and with no screening at all, pay cash for my seat, and fly in safety and comfort, knowing everyone else on the plane could have and may have done exactly the same.

      and I will STILL be many times safer than I was driving my car to the airport.

      I feel more endangered BY the probing than anything else. How many times have people been detained because some TSA bafoon shit bricks over something completely innocuous that he didn't understand? Happens WAY more often than terrorism. Way more likely to happen. way more dangerous.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    17. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Others have addressed the degrading aspect of it and the fact that is a search without probable cause, so let me add this on top:

      We live in a country where we're told to cover our "shame" from a young age. We are indoctrinated that nudity is perverse. That should we ever display our naughty bits in public we'll be branded with the sex offender stigma for life. Do you honestly not understand why in this society one would have reservations about being forced to disrobe on command ?

    18. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What moron would design such a system that doesn't save images? What if another 9/11 happens and they'd have to say "ops, sorry, we don't have the suspect's images anywhere, since we erase everything moments after they pass through security..." ... Riiight, no? All images (and surveillance video of the whole area) is likely retained for quite a while "just in case" something may happen and they need it a month from now

      (e.g. hypothetically, they find an explosive device attached to the bottom of an airline seat... and they don't know when/how it got there... they better have a record and picture of anyone who could've been near that seat in the last few weeks/months).

    19. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, lick my balls!

    20. Re:Privacy concerns by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      I think what makes people feel uncomfortable is the idea that there could be someone enjoying the images on the other side of the machine.

      I think what makes people feel uncomfortable is that they prefer to wear clothes in public rather than have strangers see them naked.

      Even members of the nudist subculture could justifiably object to being ordered to disrobe by a government official.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    21. Re:Privacy concerns by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      For instance, there are numerous cases of pedophile teachers; but I doubt you feel uncomfortable to send your kids to the school.

      I'll keep saying it -- there is a perceived benefit to sending kids to school (they may learn something). That offsets the various risks that are involved in the process. In the absence of benefits (as TSA does not benefit travelers, hasn't caught a single terrorists or verify-ably stopped an attack), the process is a net loss
      Yes, the risk of pedophiles or cancer (*) or whatever is presumably reasonably low, but what do you have to gain?

      * I understand that at least some earlier machines that were bought and scrapped did have an admitted risk. TSA will probably admit that current ones may cause cancer when they are ready to buy the new-gen batch of scanners.

    22. Re:Privacy concerns by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I certainly hope replacing the passenger's naked photo with a paper doll isn't enough to "quiet" the privacy concerns.

      Only among the incredibly stupid. Like I keep telling people every time the government spouts such idiocy, it's software. They're still taking a picture of you naked; they're just hiding some of the details from the screener. Thus:

      • Nothing prevents that data from being stored in its raw form, and even if the software does not do so now, it requires only a trivial change (like five minutes of a single engineer's time) to make it do so.
      • Even if the government has no intention of ever doing so, any screener or other person with physical access to the console could almost certainly take the initiative on his or her own, because for all practical purposes, physical access == complete access.

      Once people understand this, no amount of government doublespeak can allay the privacy concerns, because the people then understand that the privacy issues are fundamental to the technology and cannot be corrected without simultaneously eliminating the supposed benefit of the devices (e.g. by physically modifying the actual imaging and/or emission hardware so that it can only produce really, really blurry pictures).

      Other technologies do exist that can provide the same perceived benefit without the privacy concerns, such as using ultrasonic hand scanners to sweep for hard objects beneath clothing, thermal imaging cameras to check for unexpected cold spots, puffers and/or dogs to sniff for bomb residue, etc., but these all require replacing the entire set of hardware, not making minor software patches.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    23. Re:Privacy concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep that camel's nose out of my pants, please.

      Shouldn't that be a camel toe?

  6. Been saying since day one by Shivetya · · Score: 2

    If this is not like the technology "displayed" in Total Recall it will never be acceptable.

    How did these officials ever think the technology as deployed was even remotely acceptable? Yet people never seem to get the hint that the bigger the government the less it really has to care.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Been saying since day one by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      How did these officials ever think the technology as deployed was even remotely acceptable?

      People can convince themselves of all sorts of things when they stand to make a nice profit.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Been saying since day one by 2DGamer · · Score: 1

      Replying to undo incorrect moderation

  7. how to profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1. introduce stupid, useless, expensive technology
    2. profit
    3. fix it
    4. profit
    5. it is useless after all
    6. goto 1

  8. Avatar by mschaffer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do we at least get to customize our avatar as one can on many websites?

    1. Re:Avatar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I vote for a South Park theme, although most of us would be Kenny ...

    2. Re:Avatar by RivenAleem · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, only one avatar is available.

      It is decidedly suitable.

    3. Re:Avatar by dmatos · · Score: 1

      Actually, the TSA is also working on a micropayment system, where you can purchase one of hundreds of different avatar designs to display on their scanners, for a very reasonable fee.

      --

      It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
      --Scott Adams
    4. Re:Avatar by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      And for a bit more they can sell you some of the raw nude images of the most attractive young girls they recently scanned. For even more money you can opt to have a very thorough genital groping from a beautiful female screener. A former model hired just for that purpose. With these sorts of measures these expensive machines might actually pay for themselves eventually.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    5. Re:Avatar by zeroryoko1974 · · Score: 1

      They are working a deal with Nintendo to import your Mii

    6. Re:Avatar by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      No, only one avatar is available.

      But, fortunately, when he dies, he reincarnates.

    7. Re:Avatar by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      OMG Furries!

      NOOOOO!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:Avatar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you do! Your options are the top 10 people on the FBI's most wanted list.

  9. And so we beat on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    boats against the tide....

    One less thing for us to worry about.

    Until the next thing for us to worry about, and there will always be another thing.

    Always.

    Forever

  10. Body image issues? by simplexion · · Score: 1

    Dad joke win!

  11. I was gonna write something... by bmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... along the lines of "if they did this avatar thing from the beginning the TSA maybe would have only earned half the animosity they deserve" and go on about how sometimes focus groups actually work that might bring out, you know, glaring errors in design.

    But you know what? That doesn't fucking matter. What matters is that the American Public is crisis fatigued out. I am crisis fatigued. I turned on the news yesterday to find out that we discovered another underwear bomber and that the design was "sophisticated" and a dog and pony show was trotted out on the Today show by the fucking CIA.

    I want you, every one of you, to ask yourselves, when was the last time the CIA did intelligence press releases? It's like science by press release - you get bogus shit like cold fusion because what it's really about is someone trying to stoke his budget.

    And that's what it's all about. It's just corporate welfare and agency empire building, marketed through fear. On a societal level I can't think of anything more evil except waging war through bogus excuses all the way from the Gulf of Tonkin to GWB's "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit.

    And we're going to shovel good money after bad because so many honest, hard working people are just trying to get through life without increasing the rage factor and generating more heart disease worrying about shit like this.

    Jeg opgiv.

    I am so disheartened.

    --
    BMO

    Postscript:

    About sophistication:

    The fucking Soviet Union of the 1980s could launch nuclear tipped missiles and have them explode over a US city with an accuracy of a couple of feet and this was entirely credible. Comparing the war on terror enemies to the enemy of the Cold War, I do not find any fucking sophistication. Yesterday's announcement of more underwear bombs paired with the word "sophisticated" made me want to scream. What an abuse of language. What fucking Newspeak. What fucking doublethink.

    1. Re:I was gonna write something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As someone who grew up in the 1960s, in Canada (that is, right smack in between the US and the USSR, as the ICBM flies...), I completely agree with you about the credibility of the threats, then and now. The danger posed by a few savages whose idiotic religion tells them to blow up their underpants doesn't come anywhere near justifying the sort of police state that certain supposedly civilized countries seem determined to create. The right response is probably laughter and ridicule.

    2. Re:I was gonna write something... by SlippyToad · · Score: 1

      What an abuse of language. What fucking Newspeak. What fucking doublethink.

      What a fucking awesome rant! Preach on, bro! My kingdom for a mod point.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    3. Re:I was gonna write something... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I turned on the news yesterday to find out that we discovered another underwear bomber and that the design was "sophisticated" and a dog and pony show was trotted out on the Today show by the fucking CIA.

      I want you, every one of you, to ask yourselves, when was the last time the CIA did intelligence press releases?

      This alone tells you that it's bullshit. Does anyone expect the CIA to play it straight? These guys invented "cannot confirm or deny", so when they confirm on national TV, you know it serves an agenda. Good post!

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    4. Re:I was gonna write something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'd like you to think they thwarted a plot that would have happened if not for them. The truth is coming out now that an "informant" was PAID to go get the bomb built. Once again, we've been saved from a plot initiated and prodded along by our own people.

    5. Re:I was gonna write something... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      If you haven't read Taleb's book, The Black Swan, you might consider doing so. Aside from the much hyped theory of improbable events he talks about how he has dealt with the insane diarrheal flow of information that this world tends to create. Mostly by ignoring the little things (ie. what passes for news these days).

      Don't read the blogs (oops), the news sites, the advertisements. Don't watch TV. Mostly read real stuff / think and just glance at headlines now and again.

      The headlines will of course indicate the international situation was desperate, as usual. Take a walk outside.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:I was gonna write something... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Agreed, Did George Carlin fake his death and re-surface on /. ? ;)

    7. Re:I was gonna write something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have wondered why the focus on commercial passenger traffic. A terrorist with even a tiny bit of creativity would do something in a shopping mall on Black Friday. Others have mentioned trains and buses. Let's not forget that recently the space shuttles were flown at low altitudes around NY and DC at announced times and (from what I understand) pretty well publicized flight paths. All it would have taken is one well placed shoulder-launched surface to air missile to have brought it down. Not as many deaths but pretty spectacular from a publicity and terror viewpoint.

    8. Re:I was gonna write something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen some article that indicate that the "bomber" was discovered because he was a double agent. I wonder if he hadn't been there would they have been able to develop a "sophisticated" bomb, or find a volunteer to be the bomber?

    9. Re:I was gonna write something... by bmo · · Score: 1

      What did you just do?

      Did you just compare me to George Carlin?

      I am not worthy of such comparison. Not at all. George was miles more quick than I am. While he would have seen through the bullshit with the whole "underpants bomb is sophisticated" nonsense, he would have use funnier and more picturesque language that I have here. According to him, the best way to comedy is to take something normal and look at it from a 45 degree angle. I can only come up to 10 degrees.

      What I posted was a gross approximation and George is still dead.

      Not. Worthy.

      --
      BMO

    10. Re:I was gonna write something... by bmo · · Score: 1

      I have wondered why the focus on commercial passenger traffic

      The army always fights the last war. The Polish had their cavalry. The French had their Maginot Line. 'Tis always thus.

      A terrorist with even a tiny bit of creativity would do something in a shopping mall on Black Friday

      Or, if we're going to stay within the idea of air transport, the long lines at Security.

      Others have mentioned trains and buses.

      It's harder to fly a bus or train into a building. That said, subways have been targets before. The problem with introducing security checkpoints at subway tunnels, you just move the chokepoint a few feet away and you don't really do anything practical, which is why I consider VIPR teams a waste of time and money.

      Let's not forget that recently the space shuttles were flown at low altitudes around NY and DC at announced times and (from what I understand) pretty well publicized flight paths

      When the Shuttle was flying over New England or DC during launch, it was already too high and too fast for even the fastest Russian made SAM. I mean the big ones like the S400, not the little shoulder fired ones. This particular scenario is a bad "24" plot line.

      --
      BMO

    11. Re:I was gonna write something... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but your last few lines "What an abuse of language. What fucking Newspeak. What fucking doublethink." was PURE Carlin near the end of his days...

    12. Re:I was gonna write something... by bmo · · Score: 1

      He was right, though, and he was one of the few among the masses that recognized that if you control the language, you control the debate, which on a meta level, is why the 7 dirty words routine is one of his most important.

      A lot of people thought of him as merely vulgar. But that meant they fell for the trap of language as a form of control. In this way, he could be compared to Orwell.

      Someone should write a paper on this.

      --
      BMO

    13. Re:I was gonna write something... by bmo · · Score: 1

      Follow up

      I read what I wrote in Carlin's voice and if I try really hard, I probably could come up with a faux Carlin rant, but it wouldn't be the same.

      --
      BMO

    14. Re:I was gonna write something... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Yeah, under all that anger and rage (his later stuff was so angry compared to his earlier stuff) was an astute and and perceptive mind...

    15. Re:I was gonna write something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to recall hearing that funding for a certain intelligence program was set to end this year.

      They needed something to show that they needed the money again.

  12. Deficit solution by Sparticus789 · · Score: 1

    To help pay off the deficit, the TSA is now offering lead-lined paper bags to cover your face when going through the strip search machine. At an affordable $15 a piece, it is a small price to pay for privacy.

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
  13. Avatar by LordStormes · · Score: 1

    "To quiet privacy concerns, the authorities are also spending $7 million to 'remove the human factor from the image review process' and replace the passenger's image with an avatar."

    http://www.imaxmelbourne.com.au/images/uploads/Avatar/Avatar-BIG-1.jpg

    "Sorry, buddy, you're gonna have to check that bow."

  14. Devil's Advocate by arisvega · · Score: 2

    I 'll play devil's advocate below- so, under the assumption that the TSA and their paraphernalia are vital in present-day USA:

    .. spending millions [..] upgrading magnetometers to the new body scanners ..

    As most of you probably know, the "new scanner" operates at the THz range: that wavelength is being exploited because a) it "sees" through clothes and b) it gives a nice contrast.

    A little more detail: the incoming radiation mostly penetrates clothing both in its way in and out -- i.e., penetrates clothing in its way in, does not penetrate skin and instead gets reflected back, it then passes again through clothing on its way out and gets registered on the machine. Now, other material (say a ceramic knife, that does not register in the magnetometer) or a "suspicious" looking box strapped on the body, will reflect the incoming THz radiation but on a different way: by taking advantage of this, a contrast image can be constructed, and what is not skin becomes conspicuous. So you can obvisouly see why this is something an authority appreciates, and you would be in denial if you don't believe that the scanners are here to stay. Sorry, but now they have established their foothold in reality, so you have to learn to get used to them being around for quite a while.

    .. spending $7 million [to] replace the passenger's image with an avatar

    Okay, now I am done playing advocate- my points:

    a) $7 million for software development seems a lot in the expensive side, or so I think. Anyway the federal budget for toilet paper is probably higher. And

    b) most importantly, couldn't that had been implemented from the start of the project, out of respect for the citizen? I mean, how hard can it be? Is there a reason why this "extra humiliation" factor had to linger around for so long?

    c) I wouldn't hate TSA so much: the guilt will be hard to cope with once the cumulative radiation damage becomes apparent on its not very bright staff. I don't think there will ever be a concensus regarding the damage one gets (or not) from the respective radiation: just see how after more than a decade the cellphone radiation is still supposed to be under debate, and how results are "inconlcusive".

    --
    The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      c) I wouldn't hate TSA so much: the guilt will be hard to cope with once the cumulative radiation damage becomes apparent on its not very bright staff. I don't think there will ever be a concensus regarding the damage one gets (or not) from the respective radiation: just see how after more than a decade the cellphone radiation is still supposed to be under debate, and how results are "inconlcusive".

      The tens of millions that Chertoff personally made (billions for his company, and he gets a cut) from selling the backscatter X-Ray scanners will assuage a lot of guilt.

      (I believe the microwave ones are harmless to both operator and passenger - the operator is shielded, and the energy deposited to the passenger is insufficient to heat the cornea. They're just as ineffective and overpriced, but the risk is likely negligible.)

      I can almost hear the interview process now: So the business plan is to recruit people from ads on pizza boxes, we give them access to machines that produce ionizing radiation, and because they're not intended for a medical purpose, we can use that loophole to deny them dosimeters - the same way we do for the operators of the real X-ray machines that the luggage goes through? And I get paid how much? Woohoo!

      Unlike professional politicians who use their office to gain access to funnel money to favored vendors who reward them with cushy jobs after their term in office, I'm not even a sociopath, and I'd have made that tradeoff in the blink of in eye.

    2. Re:Devil's Advocate by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is I need a skin covered knife?

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    3. Re:Devil's Advocate by thegreatemu · · Score: 3, Informative

      As most of you probably know, the "new scanner" operates at the THz range

      If only that were universally true. The THz or millimeter wave scanners are in use in some airports, and I have no problem going through them, although sometimes I opt out out of patriotic duty to make life difficult for TSA.

      The problem is that most US airports in fact have the x-ray backscatter scanners. Now, I know that if the device is operating within it's design parameters, the dose you get from it is significantly less than the one you get from actually flying. But even before you start to include factors like a) the dose is concentrated all in the outer skin layers b) it's being operated by a high school dropout, the design dose is NOT ZERO. When you have two technologies, one of which uses ionizing radiation and one which doesn't, yet they accomplish the same goal, why in all the hells would you choose to subject everyone to ioniziing radiation?

    4. Re:Devil's Advocate by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      b) most importantly, couldn't that had been implemented from the start of the project, out of respect for the citizen?

      (emphasis added)

      That made me laugh in a sad, sad way. I wouldn't even say that respect for citizens seems low on their list of priorities, rather it seems the opposite is quite important to them.

    5. Re:Devil's Advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Snikt*
      Way ahead of you, bub.

    6. Re:Devil's Advocate by Hatta · · Score: 1

      b) most importantly, couldn't that had been implemented from the start of the project, out of respect for the citizen?

      The entire purpose of the TSA is to acclimate citizens to disrespectful treatment by authorities. It's for your own good.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  15. i feel sorry for the guys watching the screen by cornjones · · Score: 2

    I know everybody is hung up on 'oh noes, that tsa screener is going to see a blue image of my naked body'. Am I the only one that feels sorry for the guy/gal that actually has to sit all day and watch naked blue bodies? for every swedish bikini model that passes, i you have at least 10 overweight slobs. How can the screener ever have sex again after staring at these blobs going by day in, day out?

    1. Re:i feel sorry for the guys watching the screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How? Like it was said in a previous report: they change the ratio by making the bikini models go twice or more in the scanner because "the image is blurred"

    2. Re:i feel sorry for the guys watching the screen by FrozenFOXX · · Score: 1

      You might not have been aware of this but there are entire profitable websites dedicated to fornicating overweight people. Sounds like a dream job for anyone who visits those sites.

      --
      "Just a fox, a whisper."
    3. Re:i feel sorry for the guys watching the screen by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that feels sorry for the guy/gal that actually has to sit all day and watch naked blue bodies?

      Yes, for the exact same reason I don't feel sorry for peeping toms and child molesters in prison. If you want to abuse others, then screw you. You get what you deserve.

      How can the screener ever have sex again after staring at these blobs going by day in, day out?

      I'm hoping they don't. I don't want the genes passed on.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  16. The terrorists win by LordStormes · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I doubt al Qaeda had any intention of this bomb going off. They put it in somebody's underwear, just so Americans would now have to strip to get on a plane. Government officials need to stop going on TV and saying that the terrorists "hate freedom." Because they do. And if the terrorist's goal is to attack freedom, guess what, government? YOU'RE LETTING THEM WIN. Put an X-Ray machine, a Geiger counter, and a dog at every terminal in the country. That's it. When the terrorists have a bomb that isn't made of metal AND is made of a chemical the dog can't detect, send a sample of that chemical to every airport in the country, and teach the dogs to smell that too.

  17. Have Issues? by NEDHead · · Score: 2

    I have issues! And no one is giving me $90M to fix them...

    1. Re:Have Issues? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      I have issues! And no one is giving me $90M to fix them...

      You did not reach the minimum number of 666 points on the G&C (Greed and Corruption) scale. I'm sorry sir, but you failed to qualify for the special edition "bailout" checks.

    2. Re:Have Issues? by NEDHead · · Score: 1

      dammit

    3. Re:Have Issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I've gone well beyond the 666 mark on the G&C scale. My problem is that my Squalor Index Rating is too high. It's been determined that my greed and corruption would most likely be used to benefit myself, only.

  18. No more TSA... by athlon02 · · Score: 3

    Yet ANOTHER reason to get rid of the TSA. We waste dollar after dollar on that stupid agency. And according to their own stats, we're no safer now than in 2001. Moreover, from a constitutional standpoint:

    1. The Federal govt has the right to secure the borders -- this is the job for border patrol, NOT the TSA
    2. Inter-state flights - not within Federal jurisdiction
    3. That leaves flights that go across state lines, but do not leave the US.

    The only place where the TSA arguably should have any authority is #3. And if we do #1, #2, and track & deport known terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, then the need for #3 becomes very minimal.

    Let's face it, the TSA is filled with a bunch of inept, under-achieving goons, who have shaky justification for their jobs (at best) and should be replaced with private security companies. Such companies could be under appropriately laws to make sure they can be prosecuted for violating the 4th amendment, civil liberties, etc. and they'd have plenty of incentives to do things right...

    OK, rant ended.

    1. Re:No more TSA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean: inTRA state flights.

    2. Re:No more TSA... by athlon02 · · Score: 1

      Yes, sorry about the typo.

  19. "Underwear bomb" a euphemisim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've seen mainstream news reports referring to the Abdullah al-Asiri assassination attempt on Mohammed bin Nayef as an "underwear bomb" when it's generally accepted to have been a body cavity ("in da butt") bomb. It makes me suspicious that this latest report of a new, improved underwear bomb is a similar euphemism by the major news sources. Certainly none of these expensive scanners could find something that isn't even really in the underwear...

  20. I don't believe them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this is more lies from the TSA. If your going to eliminate the 'human factor' then why do you need to replace the image with an avatar? Why not just remove the display that shows the image?

    Right way to remove 'human factor':
    Image sensors create a naked image of you, computer analyzes it, sounds alarm if your a threat, the image isn't stored, and there isn't any hardware (display) to show the image while it's being analyzed.

    Wrong way (the new TSA way):
    Images sensors create a naked image of you, computer transforms naked image into an avatar, naked image is analyzed by computer (analyzing the avatar wouldn't produce as accurate of results as the original image), avatar is displayed on a screen that isn't viewed by anyone because the human factor has been removed.

    The TSA is retarded, lying about removing the human factor, or most likely, both.

  21. Anybody else hear the song .... by skogs · · Score: 1

    Do you want to date my avatar...

    Perhaps this will increase the job satisfaction and reduce depression amongst TSA screeners. Seriously...who would want that job? For every 1 person they might want to see naked and put their hands on...they are required to look at and feel up a hundred more that they would rather just run away from.

    --
    Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
  22. Ever wonder if the bomber WASN'T a double agent? by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

    I mean, what a great mind-fuck to AQ. What if they caught the guy, stuck him in a cell in a friendly country, then decided that they'd do a little psychological warfare and said this guy was a double agent all along. I mean, if there aren't any embedded agents, why not freak them out and have them wondering how many people are working for the other side?

    And it seems odd that they out a double agent as intentionally one, not just some poor schmuck that got compromised.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  23. Or maybe not... by jdev · · Score: 1

    This is the same thing that the TSA previously dismissed as "some guy" making a "crude attempt" at getting around screening procedures. At least they are acknowledging it now.

    http://blog.tsa.gov/2012/03/viral-video-about-body-scanners.html

    They have also said that these things are completely safe despite inadequate testing. Or that there are sufficient procedures in place to protect people's privacy. I wonder how long it will take for them to change their minds on that too.

  24. Hilarious Press Release by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    The BBC report on it is so sensational that it's reminiscent of Monty Python's "How not to be seen": "This is what could have happened if the underwear bomber had succeeded.... BOOM!" Priceless.

    The guy didn't have a target, had no target or plane ticket. It was,"Even more sophisticated than the last one!" Ah yes, more sophisticated because it used a shiny silver button instead of a switch? Yes let's all get worried.

    --
    -
  25. Separation of Church and State by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    That's the problem with separation of church and state. The government cannot use religion to inflict fear to get people to conform, so they have to resort to other tactics such as the war on terror. When people in power keep people in fear, the people in power can pretty much do whatever they want, whether church or state.

    1. Re:Separation of Church and State by bmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't see the separation of church and state as a problem.

      If you want religion in your state, be prepared for the state being in your religion.

      Be careful what you wish for.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Separation of Church and State by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I don't see the separation of church and state as a problem.

      If you want religion in your state, be prepared for the state being in your religion.

      Be careful what you wish for.

      --
      BMO

      You miss my point. WIthout religion to control the masses, the state must resort to fear.

    3. Re:Separation of Church and State by bmo · · Score: 1

      but wait...

      The state is going to resort to fear regardless of whether it has religion under its wing. The powers are not mutually exclusive.

      When the state and religion are the same, the state has both powers

      When the state doesn't have religion, it has half the power of the previous statement.

      I'm not sure what you're getting at.

      A problem for whom?

      --
      BMO

    4. Re:Separation of Church and State by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      When the state had both fear and religion, it used religion -- always better to blame god than the leaders, who could be killed. With religion, the fear was eternal damnation. Without religion, the state has to step up its fear-mongering, but still doesn't want the blame, so we still have an unidentifiable outside force that we, the populace have no control over. The war on terror is everywhere! Just like the devil Sure, I'll give up personal freedoms to let the government protect me from the unknown monster (versus letting the church protect me from the unknown evil).

      In the end, people in power, whether the state or the church or the church-state, want to control the populace so they may stay in power. Without religion, though, there is no god to fear, so the state has to step up and create fear where it doesn't really exist. Why? Because, people who are afraid are willing to do just about anything, even if it isn't in their best interest.

  26. Black background? by bigtech · · Score: 1

    Why don't they change the background to some pattern rather than solid black? Wouldn't that eliminate the problem where you strap something on your side and it doesn't show?

  27. Obligatory Ultima reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >get erection during body scan
    >WHAT ARE YOU DOING, AVATAR?

  28. Pat Down by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Pat down everyone! Just take every single person and give them a full body pat down, they do it at concerts after all. If you can't do the job using technology then do it by hand.

  29. Oblig. by PPH · · Score: 1
    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  30. this is about money by Dan667 · · Score: 2

    if these scanners were really about safety then pass a bill that the makers of them cannot make a profit and no executive in the company can make more than $150k per year (total compensation).

  31. Re:Ever wonder if the bomber WASN'T a double agent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because if you announce that you better back it up with action on information only that guy would know otherwise the bluff is called, and given that he was either going to succeed (die) or get captured they wouldn't tell him anything.

    It would be like putting an unexploded bomb in a POW camp and claiming it was a double agent

    Now capture a known leader and his camp and then claim he was a double agent and act on intelligence only he had, then you'll have 'em guessing.

  32. they already switched to avatars by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 3, Informative

    The airport in Bozeman, Montana did at least.

    The screen shows just a generic outline with a highlighted area of where something was detected.

    However, this doesn't end the privacy concerns. The device still has a full-res picture (visualization) in it, it just doesn't put it on the screen. And I don't believe for a minute that the device doesn't store the picture despite what they say. If I were designing the system, I'd store the picture at least for a couple days.

    What happens if they are doing testing where they try to sneak weapons on board and they make it on? You would want the data so it can be analyzed after the fact to see why the system didn't detect them. What happens if a plane blows up? You would want to look at the images to see if the software missed a carried device.

    There's no way you'd just throw the data away, it really harms your capability to improve the system over time.

    So I still have privacy concerns.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  33. Re:Ever wonder if the bomber WASN'T a double agent by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Why do you think that picture is anybody but some random taxi driver in NYC that's been moderately Photoshopped?

    (Assuming this whole silly story has any basis in fact.)

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  34. ...Profit! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    I could have designed an equally useful and 100% safe system for far less:

    1) Put up prop booths with no real functionality

    2) Tell everyone it is a sophisticated scanning system when it is actually just a prop.

    3) Pay people to occaisonally go through and "get caught", thereby reinforcing the illusion.

    4) Profit!

    Then again, I suppose there is a good chance that is exactly what they are already doi*(#&)^)$^NO CARRIER

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  35. Re:Ever wonder if the bomber WASN'T a double agent by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    Or the agent pretty much started the whole bomb plot to justify TSA and defense spending.

  36. Just Opt Out by Chuckles08 · · Score: 1

    Just opt out people. As has been pointed out before, if enough people would just elect to bypass this mess, then the machines would be gone.

    --
    Twenda Learning: Educational Apps that Engage.
  37. Re:Ever wonder if the bomber WASN'T a double agent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fahd al-Quso was killed in a drone strike on Sunday.

  38. it's the TSA game! by swschrad · · Score: 2

    "my avatar has brass knuckles. 2 points."

    "fool, kneel before me! my avatar has two rocket launchers, 99 energy points, and ten grenades!"

    meanwhile, far behind, the $8-an-hour "agents" are hassling a little old lady with a walker and leading another Congressman into the back room holding cells for having a tie clasp.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  39. $7 million for image hiding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The entire cost of puffer machine R&D was significantly less than that.

  40. Correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not theft. It is still harmful, wrong, and completely unjustified, however.

  41. Can we just get rid of... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    ... this freaking DHS + TSA clusterfuck already? Have they done anything better than what was done before without being completely moronic, stupid, and wasting money. As for post 9/11, all you had to do was coordinate the then-existing agencies together better. (I actually was working on a project for that, until the DHS was launched) It's madness. You know what "hope and change" what could have been? Get rid of this crap.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  42. They've already started the "upgrades" apparently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I came through Honolulu this past Monday and was surprised to see that the body scanner image being shown to the agent was only a blue avatar outline and when it found something that needed further investigation it simply highlighted the area on the avatar which leads to a pat down by a TSA agent.