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Archaeologists Find Oldest Known Mayan Calendar

sciencehabit writes "A team of American researchers has discovered a small trove of ancient Mayan texts in a surprising place. In a paper published online today in Science, researchers report finding Mayan astronomical tables and other texts painted and incised on the walls of a 1200-year-old residential building at the site of Xultún in Guatemala. The newly discovered astronomical tables are at least 500 years older than those preserved in the Maya codices, giving researchers a new glimpse of science at the height of the Maya civilization. 'I think we are all astonished by this find,' says Stephen Houston, an archaeologist at Brown University who was not part of the team."

37 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Go Figure! by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Funny

    But which time zone?

  2. just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if those franciscan pricks hadn't torched all of the maya records we wouldn't have to try and decipher this shit off some half-buried wall. all of it was well preserved on codices but the church figured it would be easier to convert them all if they incinerated their cultural history.

    1. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the church figured it would be easier to convert them all if they incinerated their cultural history.

      What? Was the church wrong? Was it harder to convert them without their cultural history?

    2. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by alen · · Score: 4, Informative

      the mayans killed themselves long before the europeans came over. they weren't one people, but a group of city states always fighting each other and destroying neighboring cities

    3. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by dmbasso · · Score: 5, Informative

      He was talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_codices
      “[...] recorded their history for more than eight hundred years back, and that were interpreted for me by very ancient Indians.” (Zorita 1963, 271-2). Fr. Bartolomé de las Casas lamented that when found, such books were destroyed: "These books were seen by our clergy, and even I saw part of those that were burned by the monks, apparently because they thought [they] might harm the Indians in matters concerning religion, since at that time they were at the beginning of their conversion."
      And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Inquisition
      "[...] The failure of this movement prompted more aggressive evangelization, with the Franciscans finding out that despite their efforts much of traditional beliefs and practice survived. They, under the leadership of Fray Diego de Landa, decided to make an example of those they considered back-sliders without regard to proper legal formalities. Large numbers of people were subjected to torture and as many of the Maya sacred books as could be found were burned."
      The emphasis on the "good" actions of the church is mine.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    4. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, like when the allies drove into Berlin and ... wait, Like when Hussein was finally overthrown and they tore down..umm, I mean when Pol Pot moved into town and everyone lived happily ever...Nah.
      Conquerors generally don't give a damn about your new world order views, they tend to implement their own.

    5. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think you mean the Buddhas statues in Afghanistan? I know that this is a pathetic troll, but figure I should nip this in the bud right here:

      Most muslims were opposed to the action, even high ranking officials in the Taliban.

      In July 1999, Mullah Mohammed Omar issued a decree in favor of the preservation of the Bamiyan Buddha's statue. Because Afghanistan's Buddhist population no longer exists, which removed the possibility of the statues being worshiped, he added: "The government considers the Bamiyan statues as an example of a potential major source of income for Afghanistan from international visitors. The Taliban states that Bamiyan shall not be destroyed but protected.

      According to UNESCO Director-General Koïchiro Matsuura, a meeting of ambassadors from the 54 member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) was conducted. All OIC states – including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, three countries that officially recognised the Taliban government – joined the protest to spare the monuments. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates later condemned the destruction as "savage".

      Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf sent Moinuddin Haider to Kabul to try to prevent the destruction, by arguing that it was un-Islamic and unprecedented. According to Taliban minister, Abdul Salam Zaeef, UNESCO sent the Taliban government 36 letters objecting to the proposed destruction. He asserted that the Chinese, Japanese and Sri Lankan delegates were the most strident advocates for preserving the Buddhas.

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    6. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by geekoid · · Score: 2

      The Mayans are still around. Sheesh.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, I mean the ancient statues in Egypt. Before you call people "pathetic trolls" maybe you should learn basic history. You do realize Egypt was not originally an Arab country? They are colonizers just like the Spanish Catholics in Mesoamerica. When the muslims conquered Egypt they smashed the faces off any "idols" they could find in an iconoclastic orgy. Monotheistic fanatics are authoritarian and violent no matter which brand or logo they operate under. Deal with it.

    8. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong about... it being easier to convert a people after destroying their culture? Well.. probably not.

      But... wrong about destroying a people's culture in order to convert them to a different opinion? Yeah. Fucking wrong.

    9. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting. I was not aware that there was any significant number of such statues left outside of tombs after the Christian fanatics smashed the faces off the idols, dragged the priests out into the streets, and killed them, centuries before Islam was even founded.

      To put it more plainly: I think you might be confusing christians and muslims.

    10. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by lordholm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is quite OK to destroy statues of Stalin and Lenin in the eastern parts of Europe as there are still people around who suffered from those bastard's reign. However, it would not be OK to destroy them if they where 2000 years old. Whatever you think, it is not OK to destroy 2000 year old statues of Julius Caesar in France, even though the guy was responsible for killing off something like a quarter of the local Gauls.

      It may also be understandable if the statues where old, but symbolizing an oppressor that just left. If the Buddhists would have ruled and oppressed the Afghans until say 20 years ago, it would be understandable that the statues where destroyed during the processes of liberation (not nice, but understandable). As it stands however, Afghanistan has been islamic for a very very long time. Destroying the statues this long after, is thus just simply put a crime against our common cultural heritage.

      It is not so much about priorities, being poor is no excuse for actively ruining such a site, it would be an excuse for letting it slowly crumble due to the lack of maintenance however.

      --
      "Civis Europaeus sum!"
    11. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm no Christian, but I think it's safe to say that regardless of history, you've got some easy things to compare and contrast today. There are plenty of backwards minded Christians. But they are totally eclipsed - in numbers and actions - by medieval-minded Muslim BS. Plenty of Christians have - historically - killed those who didn't share their flavor of mysticism, because of that difference. That really doesn't happen any more, and no leaders in any numbers or of any consequence within that broad swath of culture either call for or defend religion-based aggression for its own sake. Compared to Islam, which has a very vocal sub-group that rants endlessly about killing peope for not being Muslim or the right flavor of Islamic, and who inspire people who then run out and do exactly that. I'm not seeing large armed Christian movements that burn school teachers alive for teaching girls to read, though I'm seeing large, well-financed Islamist movements that do exactly that, and which are not condemned in any serious way by the wider Muslim community.

      It's useful to examine history, but also worth remembering that history isn't what's happening right now. Some cultures have moved past medieval theo-thugocracy, and other cultures are reaching backwards towards it as an ideal, and actually acting on that, killing people every day with that in mind.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    12. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Bucc5062 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And yet extreme Muslims still went ahead and started destroying these artefacts contrary to world and Muslim leaders. Granted, the P got the origin wrong, but the essence of the statement still has merit. Leaders, from whatever group, eventually reap what they sow. There is enough Muslim radicalism that at some point, it will be taken so far that the same leaders who condemn are the one's responsible for feeding that type of action (I wanted to say hate...maybe).

      Look at the US and the current Republican party. The leaders set about to make Obama a one term president which was fertiliser for the budding Tea Party. 2010 was the storm clouds on the horizon of the Grand Old Party, 2012 may be the storm that does major damage for seat after seat is going to TP candidates and their extreme, almost destructive action in congress. So now leaders try to say one one hand "Stop, this is not the way to govern", yet continue the fan the flames by exclaiming provocative statements to the press, even on area of agreement.

      Once you start a ball rolling downhill, the path is out of your control. You cannot stop it by crying "Please, don't roll any more", but only by destroying the ball or getting directly in its way...even then you'd most likely be crushed.
       

      --
      Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
    13. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by fredrated · · Score: 2

      Will you be mad if I mod your post 'depressing'?

    14. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by azalin · · Score: 2

      Unless you are gay or are performing abortions... Ok, actually not even then at least mostly. There used to be a time when Islamic countries where the sanctuaries of science and enlightenment whereas christian Europe made an excursion into a dark age that would make even the Taliban shudder with disgust.

    15. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by Spinalcold · · Score: 2

      We owe a large percentage of our current knowledge to the muslims. Back in the medival period they were the only ones in europe who cared about knowledge and math. Spain and Timbuktu where centers of knowledge. Muslims weren't always extremists, that happened after Brittian, France and US decided to chop up the Ottoman empire "so it didn't pose a threat". That backfired didn't it?

    16. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Muslims weren't always extremists, that happened after Brittian, France and US decided to chop up the Ottoman empire "so it didn't pose a threat". That backfired didn't it?

      You're right. When a Taliban enforcer drags a school teacher out into the town square that used to be a soccer field before they banned playing soccer, and shoots her in the head because she has offended Allah by encouraging girls to think, that is definitely the fault of western civilization. No question.

      What the hell is wrong with you?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    17. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      Actually, beyond personal responsibility, that's right

      So, what you're saying is that Muslims aren't capable of personal responsibility? That they're just too dumb to act rationally? That someone from that region who used to respect a woman's right to read a book got so angry about western civilization that he now thinks women should be killed for being able to read? Just trying to follow your incredibly condescending, patronizing, racist thinking. Thanks for helping to clarify! Keep it classy.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    18. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by amRadioHed · · Score: 2

      So they weren't getting enough aid given to them, so that makes the one thing that could potentially bring them money oppressive? That doesn't make any sense at all, in fact it's a stunningly foolish thing to do. They did have active power, and that power could have helped them build a tourism industry while simultaneously helping bring attention to the countries problems.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    19. Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks by thej1nx · · Score: 2
      >>Muslims weren't always extremists,
      .

      Spoken truly like someone who is blissfully ignorant of Indian history, and even Islamic history at that.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#Decline_and_end is just one of the innumerable massacres carried out by "pacifist" muslims, long long before Ottoman empire.

      Nice try anyways!

  3. No Doomsday by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Informative

    More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

    Notably absent was the Thirteenth Crystal Skull and ancient UFO instruction manual.

    1. Re:No Doomsday by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Funny

      More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

      But the cycle is Region 4 only, so it doesn't help us in the US. (Unless you are a dirty Pirate)

    2. Re:No Doomsday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

      Notably absent was the Thirteenth Crystal Skull and ancient UFO instruction manual.

      I was so terribly disappointed when I googled for the Bad Girls of Linux calendar and didn't find anything. Sadist.

    3. Re:No Doomsday by kestryn · · Score: 2

      More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

      Notably absent was the Thirteenth Crystal Skull and ancient UFO instruction manual.

      I was so terribly disappointed when I googled for the Bad Girls of Linux calendar and didn't find anything. Sadist.

      I hate it when I forget to log in. Also, I narcissistically want credit for my (incredibly) clever comment, which I will never be able to truly have. Now my post becomes a zen exercise to focus on "not grasping". Also, if a post is never read by a human, does it make a point?

  4. So I do have to... by Bodhammer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Buy Christmas presents this year?
    Plan my New Year's Eve party?
    Pay my taxes?
    Vote?

    This sucks...

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  5. Re:Pity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let me cowardly start this one

    http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--1-of-3
    http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math-class--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--2-of-3
    http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--part-3-of-3

    What if these numbers natural numbers are simply how nature works and anything else would be a conspiracy!

    Smart people still lurk here.

  6. What did the cleaning lady said? by rev0lt · · Score: 3, Funny

    'I think we are all astonished by this find,' says Stephen Houston, an archaeologist at Brown University who was not part of the team."

    What an insightful comment by someone related with this find. Oh wait...

  7. Re:When does it end? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to my calculations, the world ended about three years ago when a black Kenyan Marxist anti-colonialist Nazi with a fake birth certificate seized power in the United States in order to arrange the theft of the Anglo-Hungarian Crown Jewels which were stored inside Lincoln's memorial.

  8. Re:Go Figure! by siddesu · · Score: 3, Funny

    It goes boom at 24 hours in every timezone simultaneously, obviously.

  9. Re:Go Figure! by AshtangiMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Rolling apocalypse

  10. Re:When does it end? by Fluffeh · · Score: 2

    It doesn't end as such. The Mayan had epochs. Sort of like if our dates got to the year 999, then instead of moving to 1000, they moved to 1 again, but called it the millennium of [something].

    The first age was where the gods created the world, but the animals and humans could not speak and so were unable to worship the gods. In the second age, the gods created humans out of mud, then in the third, out of wood. The gods were not pleased with either of these, so they wiped them out and started over - in the fourth age where we are now. This whole 2012 thing is simply the end of the fourth epoch of the Mayan calendar.

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    Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
  11. Re:Go Figure! by qu33ksilver · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh I just remembered something.. I was making cookies for a website, and while setting the expiry date of the cookies, an idea struck. Guess what did I set the expiry date - 21/12/2012 !! Such an epic easter egg !

  12. So .... by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... what did Miss June look like back in those days?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  13. Re:When does it end? by Ambvai · · Score: 3, Funny

    So, in either case, we're still getting wiped out. Good to know!

  14. Re:Go Figure! by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    But which time zone?

    Mayan central time

  15. New civilisation end date by MrMickS · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to my iPhone there is no calendar beyond Wednesday 2nd April 2149. It won't even let you book an all day event, so the end must come sometime during that day.

    --
    You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.