Archaeologists Find Oldest Known Mayan Calendar

sciencehabit writes "A team of American researchers has discovered a small trove of ancient Mayan texts in a surprising place. In a paper published online today in Science, researchers report finding Mayan astronomical tables and other texts painted and incised on the walls of a 1200-year-old residential building at the site of Xultún in Guatemala. The newly discovered astronomical tables are at least 500 years older than those preserved in the Maya codices, giving researchers a new glimpse of science at the height of the Maya civilization. 'I think we are all astonished by this find,' says Stephen Houston, an archaeologist at Brown University who was not part of the team."

Comments

Re:Go Figure!

[SJHillman]

But which time zone?

just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

if those franciscan pricks hadn't torched all of the maya records we wouldn't have to try and decipher this shit off some half-buried wall. all of it was well preserved on codices but the church figured it would be easier to convert them all if they incinerated their cultural history.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

the church figured it would be easier to convert them all if they incinerated their cultural history.

What? Was the church wrong? Was it harder to convert them without their cultural history?

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[alen]

the mayans killed themselves long before the europeans came over. they weren't one people, but a group of city states always fighting each other and destroying neighboring cities

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[dmbasso]

He was talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_codices
“[...] recorded their history for more than eight hundred years back, and that were interpreted for me by very ancient Indians.” (Zorita 1963, 271-2). Fr. Bartolomé de las Casas lamented that when found, such books were destroyed: "These books were seen by our clergy, and even I saw part of those that were burned by the monks, apparently because they thought [they] might harm the Indians in matters concerning religion, since at that time they were at the beginning of their conversion."
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Inquisition
"[...] The failure of this movement prompted more aggressive evangelization, with the Franciscans finding out that despite their efforts much of traditional beliefs and practice survived. They, under the leadership of Fray Diego de Landa, decided to make an example of those they considered back-sliders without regard to proper legal formalities. Large numbers of people were subjected to torture and as many of the Maya sacred books as could be found were burned."
The emphasis on the "good" actions of the church is mine.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, like when the allies drove into Berlin and ... wait, Like when Hussein was finally overthrown and they tore down..umm, I mean when Pol Pot moved into town and everyone lived happily ever...Nah.
Conquerors generally don't give a damn about your new world order views, they tend to implement their own.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Fluffeh]

I think you mean the Buddhas statues in Afghanistan? I know that this is a pathetic troll, but figure I should nip this in the bud right here:

Most muslims were opposed to the action, even high ranking officials in the Taliban.

In July 1999, Mullah Mohammed Omar issued a decree in favor of the preservation of the Bamiyan Buddha's statue. Because Afghanistan's Buddhist population no longer exists, which removed the possibility of the statues being worshiped, he added: "The government considers the Bamiyan statues as an example of a potential major source of income for Afghanistan from international visitors. The Taliban states that Bamiyan shall not be destroyed but protected.

According to UNESCO Director-General Koïchiro Matsuura, a meeting of ambassadors from the 54 member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) was conducted. All OIC states – including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, three countries that officially recognised the Taliban government – joined the protest to spare the monuments. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates later condemned the destruction as "savage".

Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf sent Moinuddin Haider to Kabul to try to prevent the destruction, by arguing that it was un-Islamic and unprecedented. According to Taliban minister, Abdul Salam Zaeef, UNESCO sent the Taliban government 36 letters objecting to the proposed destruction. He asserted that the Chinese, Japanese and Sri Lankan delegates were the most strident advocates for preserving the Buddhas.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I mean the ancient statues in Egypt. Before you call people "pathetic trolls" maybe you should learn basic history. You do realize Egypt was not originally an Arab country? They are colonizers just like the Spanish Catholics in Mesoamerica. When the muslims conquered Egypt they smashed the faces off any "idols" they could find in an iconoclastic orgy. Monotheistic fanatics are authoritarian and violent no matter which brand or logo they operate under. Deal with it.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong about... it being easier to convert a people after destroying their culture? Well.. probably not.

But... wrong about destroying a people's culture in order to convert them to a different opinion? Yeah. Fucking wrong.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. I was not aware that there was any significant number of such statues left outside of tombs after the Christian fanatics smashed the faces off the idols, dragged the priests out into the streets, and killed them, centuries before Islam was even founded.

To put it more plainly: I think you might be confusing christians and muslims.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[lordholm]

It is quite OK to destroy statues of Stalin and Lenin in the eastern parts of Europe as there are still people around who suffered from those bastard's reign. However, it would not be OK to destroy them if they where 2000 years old. Whatever you think, it is not OK to destroy 2000 year old statues of Julius Caesar in France, even though the guy was responsible for killing off something like a quarter of the local Gauls.

It may also be understandable if the statues where old, but symbolizing an oppressor that just left. If the Buddhists would have ruled and oppressed the Afghans until say 20 years ago, it would be understandable that the statues where destroyed during the processes of liberation (not nice, but understandable). As it stands however, Afghanistan has been islamic for a very very long time. Destroying the statues this long after, is thus just simply put a crime against our common cultural heritage.

It is not so much about priorities, being poor is no excuse for actively ruining such a site, it would be an excuse for letting it slowly crumble due to the lack of maintenance however.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[ScentCone]

I'm no Christian, but I think it's safe to say that regardless of history, you've got some easy things to compare and contrast today. There are plenty of backwards minded Christians. But they are totally eclipsed - in numbers and actions - by medieval-minded Muslim BS. Plenty of Christians have - historically - killed those who didn't share their flavor of mysticism, because of that difference. That really doesn't happen any more, and no leaders in any numbers or of any consequence within that broad swath of culture either call for or defend religion-based aggression for its own sake. Compared to Islam, which has a very vocal sub-group that rants endlessly about killing peope for not being Muslim or the right flavor of Islamic, and who inspire people who then run out and do exactly that. I'm not seeing large armed Christian movements that burn school teachers alive for teaching girls to read, though I'm seeing large, well-financed Islamist movements that do exactly that, and which are not condemned in any serious way by the wider Muslim community.

It's useful to examine history, but also worth remembering that history isn't what's happening right now. Some cultures have moved past medieval theo-thugocracy, and other cultures are reaching backwards towards it as an ideal, and actually acting on that, killing people every day with that in mind.

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[Bucc5062]

And yet extreme Muslims still went ahead and started destroying these artefacts contrary to world and Muslim leaders. Granted, the P got the origin wrong, but the essence of the statement still has merit. Leaders, from whatever group, eventually reap what they sow. There is enough Muslim radicalism that at some point, it will be taken so far that the same leaders who condemn are the one's responsible for feeding that type of action (I wanted to say hate...maybe).

Look at the US and the current Republican party. The leaders set about to make Obama a one term president which was fertiliser for the budding Tea Party. 2010 was the storm clouds on the horizon of the Grand Old Party, 2012 may be the storm that does major damage for seat after seat is going to TP candidates and their extreme, almost destructive action in congress. So now leaders try to say one one hand "Stop, this is not the way to govern", yet continue the fan the flames by exclaiming provocative statements to the press, even on area of agreement.

Once you start a ball rolling downhill, the path is out of your control. You cannot stop it by crying "Please, don't roll any more", but only by destroying the ball or getting directly in its way...even then you'd most likely be crushed.
 

Re:just another reason to hate jesus freaks

[ScentCone]

Muslims weren't always extremists, that happened after Brittian, France and US decided to chop up the Ottoman empire "so it didn't pose a threat". That backfired didn't it?

You're right. When a Taliban enforcer drags a school teacher out into the town square that used to be a soccer field before they banned playing soccer, and shoots her in the head because she has offended Allah by encouraging girls to think, that is definitely the fault of western civilization. No question.

What the hell is wrong with you?

No Doomsday

[l0ungeb0y]

More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

Notably absent was the Thirteenth Crystal Skull and ancient UFO instruction manual.

Re:No Doomsday

[houstonbofh]

More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

But the cycle is Region 4 only, so it doesn't help us in the US. (Unless you are a dirty Pirate)

Re:No Doomsday

[Anonymous Coward]

More importantly, the records they found at the site indicate that the Mayans viewed the calendar as CYCLICAL and just like our Bad Girls of Linux Wall Calendar, the world doesn't end when the last day of the Calendar is reached.

Notably absent was the Thirteenth Crystal Skull and ancient UFO instruction manual.

I was so terribly disappointed when I googled for the Bad Girls of Linux calendar and didn't find anything. Sadist.

So I do have to...

[Bodhammer]

Buy Christmas presents this year?
Plan my New Year's Eve party?
Pay my taxes?
Vote?

This sucks...

Re:Pity

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me cowardly start this one

http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--1-of-3
http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math-class--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--2-of-3
http://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart/v/doodling-in-math--spirals--fibonacci--and-being-a-plant--part-3-of-3

What if these numbers natural numbers are simply how nature works and anything else would be a conspiracy!

Smart people still lurk here.

What did the cleaning lady said?

[rev0lt]

'I think we are all astonished by this find,' says Stephen Houston, an archaeologist at Brown University who was not part of the team."

What an insightful comment by someone related with this find. Oh wait...

Re:When does it end?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to my calculations, the world ended about three years ago when a black Kenyan Marxist anti-colonialist Nazi with a fake birth certificate seized power in the United States in order to arrange the theft of the Anglo-Hungarian Crown Jewels which were stored inside Lincoln's memorial.

Re:Go Figure!

[siddesu]

It goes boom at 24 hours in every timezone simultaneously, obviously.

Re:Go Figure!

[AshtangiMan]

Rolling apocalypse

Re:Go Figure!

[qu33ksilver]

Oh I just remembered something.. I was making cookies for a website, and while setting the expiry date of the cookies, an idea struck. Guess what did I set the expiry date - 21/12/2012 !! Such an epic easter egg !

So ....

[PPH]

... what did Miss June look like back in those days?

Re:When does it end?

[Ambvai]

So, in either case, we're still getting wiped out. Good to know!

New civilisation end date

[MrMickS]

According to my iPhone there is no calendar beyond Wednesday 2nd April 2149. It won't even let you book an all day event, so the end must come sometime during that day.