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Ultra-Orthodox Jews Rally For a More Kosher Internet
Hugh Pickens writes "Michael Grynbaum writes that 40,000 ultra-Orthodox Jewish men filed through the gates of Citi Field to discuss the dangers of the Internet. For the attendees, many of whom said they came at the instructions of their rabbis, it was a chance to hear about a moral topic considered gravely important in the Hasidic community: the potential problems that can stem from access to pornography and other explicit content on the uncensored, often incendiary Web. Schlomo Cohen, 24, said he came to Citi Field because the rally was a good way to remind his community to keep temptation at bay. 'Desires are out there,' said Cohen. 'We have to learn how to control ourselves.' The rally was sponsored by a rabbinical group, Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachane, that is linked to a software company that sells Internet filtering software to Orthodox Jews. Those in attendance were handed fliers that advertised services like a 'kosher GPS App' for iPhone and Android phones, which helps users locate synagogues and kosher restaurants. 'No one here is a Luddite who denies the manifold benefits that technology has brought to mankind as a whole,' says Eytan Kobre, spokesman for the event. 'But at a certain point, a mature, thinking individual stops and says, "I've got to make a cost-benefit analysis [of] what ways it is enriching my life, [and] in what ways it is undermining it."'"
I've been on the internet since the early 90's and I don't ever recall even once being forced to go to a porn site (though I have been tricked into watching Rick Astley a couple of times). Unless you get some kind of phishing virus, no one is going to *force* anything on you. And if you're so weak that you can't control yourself, you may want to avoid the internet altogether. Anyway, if you really want the porn, I'm pretty sure you'll just find a way to bypass the filtering software this guy is hawking. If all that's standing between you being devout and becoming a porn-crazed sinner is some software, maybe it's time for you to reevaluate your faith.
Just keep in mind that the second you start talking about fucking with MY internet or MY ability to access porn (or anything else), then we're going to have a problem. And that goes whether it's a bible you're thumping, or a Koran, or the Talmud, etc. It's not our job to protect you from yourself, Sparky.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
'Desires are out there,' said Cohen. 'We have to learn how to control ourselves.'
Exactly. Just learn to control yourselves and stay away from porn sites. Treat them like you do pork. Or guys porking girls. Whatever, there's pork there.
Shlomo Cohen, 24, of Toronto, said he used the Internet for shopping, business and staying in touch with friends -- “Everyone needs e-mail,” he said.
You might say it's a powerful tool that isn't inherently good or evil, it can just magnify the abilities and desires of the user?
...
Basically: "New technology befuddles and stymies religious folks who wonder why their deity(s) of choice didn't write out rules for said technologies X millennia ago (at least for deities that are said to be omniscient)."
As a former Catholic, I'm sort of glad that "thou shalt not play Diablo III for 12 hours on Sunday while occasionally watching free pornography" is no longer applied to me. Hard to shake the guilt that I'm enjoying so much while others deliberately stunt themselves though
My work here is dung.
Silence and self-rule: Brooklyn's Orthodox child abuse cover-up
This happens to most -- if not all -- closed off religious communities. When people are above the law, and they fear no prosecution because their followers will protect them even when they are caught red handed, they will abuse their positions of authority and victimize the weak. It's human nature.
That's why the civilized world aims to use third parties to administer the law equally, regardless of who the perpetrator is. It's an idea hated by religious people, because it often exposes their leaders as the flawed and sometimes evil human beings that they are. Once reality becomes your enemy, you're doomed to a life of obedience to the power structure that lets you live in a fantasy world, which can lead perfectly normal people to protect monsters. In their minds it's not possible for their rabbi or pastor or priest to be evil, because acceptance of that fact is too damaging to their worldview.
Betterunixthanunix is spot-on. The topic is entirely misleading; this is not a summit where people are discussing changing the Internet. They are discussing the ramifications of some of its content and usage. This is one of the really cool things about Judaism, actually...they debate current issues in a really logical manner, and despite the optics of a bunch of ultra-orthodox walking around in traditional garb, they are actually very forward-thinking. Take the religious trappings out of it for a second. Imagine instead that it was a congregation of tens of thousands of people from the tech sector engaging in the debate instead. How would you feel about it then? That's very much like what this is...only without the inevitable commercial conflicts of interest that would arise from such a secular gathering.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
"Orthodox Jews don't rape nine-year olds" - just read this article to see how wrong you are:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/29/brooklyn-orthodox-jews-child-abuse-cover-up-feature/
Point fingers at the ultra-orthodox and scream about child molestation, since that is exactly what they are afraid of happening if people speak about it outside of their community -- you are basically validating what they are saying to themselves when they keep it a secret.
If they weren't actively trying to cover it up then people would be pointing at the particular people responsible for the child abuse and screaming at them. As it is, in exactly the same way as the Catholic church has, their community are trying desperately to cover it all up, shield the perpetrators from any sort of punishment and allow them to carry on doing it
Damned right we should be screaming at people who do that, because they're enabling the molestors.
the only logically and morally defensible position on rights and freedoms is that of the individual
when people act as a group with a command and control structure and talk about rights and freedoms, the subject ceases to be valid because the command and control structure of organized religion, in the process of imposing edicts on its members, is breaking the rights and freedoms of the individual
you can only talk about rights and freedoms of the individual. "religious freedom" in this context is an oxymoron because "religious freedom" is really just about imposing on the rights of freedoms of individuals born into a religion and unable to choose for themselves
you have to talk about rights and freedoms from the point of view of the individual. all other perspectives are not logically coherent point of views to take and therefore are false and immoral
society is only able to maintain true freedom when organized religion ceases to think it has the right to impose its will on others. as long as it does, it is an enemy of rights and freedoms. you should be able to worship your god as you choose, convert to any religion you want, as an individual. the organized religion has no right to dictate your choices, as an individual. or it is a force of authoritarianism and oppression
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Yes, if the community are actively shielding these people from prosecution, they share in the responsibility. Why is that so hard to understand?
Lubavitch and Satmar are not "Ultra" Orthodox. They're Orthodox. Charedi are 'ultra' Orthodox and don't use the net at all. This is one of those NYT smears against the Jewish community that's become their stock in trade. According to the NYT anyone who isn't a Buddhist Vegan Gay Interracial handicapped black Muslim lesbian anarchist is a 'ultra ultra ultra extremist fundamentalist religious millenarian nutcase.
I think we are safe from Muslim terrorists for a while at least. 40,000 Jews in one place and not even a bomb threat?
I have to wonder what we would be saying if it was 40,000 Muslims meeting there for the same topic? Flip through the variations of religions and apply that mental exercise of "what if?" Rastafarians make for an amusing mental image, as do several others. When I ponder which group would be the scariest in regards to tampering with our Internet freedoms, it boils down to Muslims and "Fundy Christians" with the later winning by a nose.
Religious perspectives of the Internet, they all vary, but frankly I like to remain suspicious of all of them. People inherently seem to get big wild ideas about the Internet, politicians and religious people especially and these groups tend to intermingle at a disgusting rate.
Take the Red Pill.
Sometimes the whole "Kosher" process kinda irks me in the sense that many of the most commonly consumed foods have been "made Kosher" with special branding and tiny little symbols on the labels which seem innocent and harmless enough, but those markings COST MONEY. The cost, of course, results in higher prices for things which do not affect the majority of people.
So let's take a page from the "Halal" playbook and let them buy their stuff from Kosher stores instead of effectively taxing everything we eat. Seems reasonable -- you need something different, go ahead... get your something different, but don't make the rest of us pay for it.
That said, what does it have to do with the original topic?
PLENTY!
I don't want some minority interest stepping in with things that will ultimately change and harm the internet. If they want something "sanitized" great! There's an app for that! It's called a VPN. You just connect to a regular public internet connection and then from there, log into a VPN which routes all traffic through a "Kosher-net." Now you're cleansed without affecting the rest of the planet.
When small groups force their changes on the world, it invariably harms the world in some way.
Don't let your 9 year old girl stray too close to the border fence or the guards will shoot at her for target practice. Don't protest the knocking down of homes because they'll run you over with a bulldozer. Don't try to bring aid to Gaza because they'll send troops into international waters and kill 8. Don't send UN monitors to a border that they're invading because they'll bomb it killing everyone inside the monitoring post. Don't even get me started on the UN School bombing where they killed all those civilians.
You may be blind to what Israel is up to, but the rest of the world isn't.
And anyone who supports that country is as bad as they are.
It's pretty bloody refreshing that you have a group that has a set of social values, that are getting together to logically discuss a way that they and their families can access the useful but wild'n'wooly Internet in a way that fits with their precepts, doctrines, and social values.... ...and doesn't make even a whisper about controlling OTHER PEOPLES' access.
That's absolutely wonderful.
I sincerely wish more people in this country would follow their lead and build their lives comfortably along their own beliefs but leave the REST of us ALONE.
You don't want porn? Fine. Don't watch porn. Build your ironclad access controls high and mighty to keep that out - just don't step up and say that the REST OF US can't watch porn either. Then you've crossed a line.
Really, this holds true outside of religious issues too. Want to help the homeless? Fine, pay more taxes, volunteer your time, whatever - just quit insisting on taking more of my paycheck to pay for your moral compunction.
-Styopa
Where's anti-semitism, borderline or otherwise?! It's just not there! Dude - you're not doing anyone any favours jumping up and down with the anti-semitism bullshit - save it for an occasion when it's actually true because if you don't, all you do is devalue the term and that's probably not a good idea. And really - the NYT is *vaguely* middle left, hardly the extreme left you imply. By international standards it's still pretty right-wing. And they're really not in the business of "smearing" the Jewish community - that's just conspiracy theory nuts.