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Ultra-Orthodox Jews Rally For a More Kosher Internet
Hugh Pickens writes "Michael Grynbaum writes that 40,000 ultra-Orthodox Jewish men filed through the gates of Citi Field to discuss the dangers of the Internet. For the attendees, many of whom said they came at the instructions of their rabbis, it was a chance to hear about a moral topic considered gravely important in the Hasidic community: the potential problems that can stem from access to pornography and other explicit content on the uncensored, often incendiary Web. Schlomo Cohen, 24, said he came to Citi Field because the rally was a good way to remind his community to keep temptation at bay. 'Desires are out there,' said Cohen. 'We have to learn how to control ourselves.' The rally was sponsored by a rabbinical group, Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachane, that is linked to a software company that sells Internet filtering software to Orthodox Jews. Those in attendance were handed fliers that advertised services like a 'kosher GPS App' for iPhone and Android phones, which helps users locate synagogues and kosher restaurants. 'No one here is a Luddite who denies the manifold benefits that technology has brought to mankind as a whole,' says Eytan Kobre, spokesman for the event. 'But at a certain point, a mature, thinking individual stops and says, "I've got to make a cost-benefit analysis [of] what ways it is enriching my life, [and] in what ways it is undermining it."'"
I've been on the internet since the early 90's and I don't ever recall even once being forced to go to a porn site (though I have been tricked into watching Rick Astley a couple of times). Unless you get some kind of phishing virus, no one is going to *force* anything on you. And if you're so weak that you can't control yourself, you may want to avoid the internet altogether. Anyway, if you really want the porn, I'm pretty sure you'll just find a way to bypass the filtering software this guy is hawking. If all that's standing between you being devout and becoming a porn-crazed sinner is some software, maybe it's time for you to reevaluate your faith.
Just keep in mind that the second you start talking about fucking with MY internet or MY ability to access porn (or anything else), then we're going to have a problem. And that goes whether it's a bible you're thumping, or a Koran, or the Talmud, etc. It's not our job to protect you from yourself, Sparky.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
'Desires are out there,' said Cohen. 'We have to learn how to control ourselves.'
Exactly. Just learn to control yourselves and stay away from porn sites. Treat them like you do pork. Or guys porking girls. Whatever, there's pork there.
Shlomo Cohen, 24, of Toronto, said he used the Internet for shopping, business and staying in touch with friends -- “Everyone needs e-mail,” he said.
You might say it's a powerful tool that isn't inherently good or evil, it can just magnify the abilities and desires of the user?
...
Basically: "New technology befuddles and stymies religious folks who wonder why their deity(s) of choice didn't write out rules for said technologies X millennia ago (at least for deities that are said to be omniscient)."
As a former Catholic, I'm sort of glad that "thou shalt not play Diablo III for 12 hours on Sunday while occasionally watching free pornography" is no longer applied to me. Hard to shake the guilt that I'm enjoying so much while others deliberately stunt themselves though
My work here is dung.
Betterunixthanunix is spot-on. The topic is entirely misleading; this is not a summit where people are discussing changing the Internet. They are discussing the ramifications of some of its content and usage. This is one of the really cool things about Judaism, actually...they debate current issues in a really logical manner, and despite the optics of a bunch of ultra-orthodox walking around in traditional garb, they are actually very forward-thinking. Take the religious trappings out of it for a second. Imagine instead that it was a congregation of tens of thousands of people from the tech sector engaging in the debate instead. How would you feel about it then? That's very much like what this is...only without the inevitable commercial conflicts of interest that would arise from such a secular gathering.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
"Orthodox Jews don't rape nine-year olds" - just read this article to see how wrong you are:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/29/brooklyn-orthodox-jews-child-abuse-cover-up-feature/
Point fingers at the ultra-orthodox and scream about child molestation, since that is exactly what they are afraid of happening if people speak about it outside of their community -- you are basically validating what they are saying to themselves when they keep it a secret.
If they weren't actively trying to cover it up then people would be pointing at the particular people responsible for the child abuse and screaming at them. As it is, in exactly the same way as the Catholic church has, their community are trying desperately to cover it all up, shield the perpetrators from any sort of punishment and allow them to carry on doing it
Damned right we should be screaming at people who do that, because they're enabling the molestors.
the only logically and morally defensible position on rights and freedoms is that of the individual
when people act as a group with a command and control structure and talk about rights and freedoms, the subject ceases to be valid because the command and control structure of organized religion, in the process of imposing edicts on its members, is breaking the rights and freedoms of the individual
you can only talk about rights and freedoms of the individual. "religious freedom" in this context is an oxymoron because "religious freedom" is really just about imposing on the rights of freedoms of individuals born into a religion and unable to choose for themselves
you have to talk about rights and freedoms from the point of view of the individual. all other perspectives are not logically coherent point of views to take and therefore are false and immoral
society is only able to maintain true freedom when organized religion ceases to think it has the right to impose its will on others. as long as it does, it is an enemy of rights and freedoms. you should be able to worship your god as you choose, convert to any religion you want, as an individual. the organized religion has no right to dictate your choices, as an individual. or it is a force of authoritarianism and oppression
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Yes, if the community are actively shielding these people from prosecution, they share in the responsibility. Why is that so hard to understand?
Sometimes the whole "Kosher" process kinda irks me in the sense that many of the most commonly consumed foods have been "made Kosher" with special branding and tiny little symbols on the labels which seem innocent and harmless enough, but those markings COST MONEY. The cost, of course, results in higher prices for things which do not affect the majority of people.
So let's take a page from the "Halal" playbook and let them buy their stuff from Kosher stores instead of effectively taxing everything we eat. Seems reasonable -- you need something different, go ahead... get your something different, but don't make the rest of us pay for it.
That said, what does it have to do with the original topic?
PLENTY!
I don't want some minority interest stepping in with things that will ultimately change and harm the internet. If they want something "sanitized" great! There's an app for that! It's called a VPN. You just connect to a regular public internet connection and then from there, log into a VPN which routes all traffic through a "Kosher-net." Now you're cleansed without affecting the rest of the planet.
When small groups force their changes on the world, it invariably harms the world in some way.