Google Funds Raspberry Pi And CS Teachers For UK Schools

nk497 writes "Last year, Eric Schmidt slammed British computer science teaching, saying the UK was wasting its computing heritage — since then, the Government has agreed to re-examine how the subject is taught. 'Rebooting computer science education is not straightforward,' Schmidt said. 'Scrapping the existing curriculum was a good first step — the equivalent of pulling the plug out of the wall. The question is now how to power up.' To help, Schmidt has now promised funding from Google to train 100 teachers as well as give classrooms Raspberry Pis, via charity Teach First."

Comments

The simpsons say hello

[Anonymous Coward]

"...Welcome to maths. If I have three Pepsi and drink one how refreshed would I be?"

Re:The simpsons say hello

[Anonymous Coward]

Google don't need to slap their brand all over this. They gain in two quantifiable ways:

1. Good will. Google are the good guys here.
2. A better trained workforce. They'll need engineers in ten years time, after all.

Re:The simpsons say hello

[PhilHibbs]

So why didn't they push one of the new ultra-cheap Android devices?

Re:The simpsons say hello

[metaforest]

R-Pi will run Android just fine...

And it generates goodwill when Google indirectly supports a FOSH/S project that is positively influencing STEM education.

If only...

[Anonymous Coward]

If only I could buy one.

Re:If only...

[symbolset]

Google's recent acquisition may be able to help with that. I understand they know how to get stuff manufactured at scale.

Re:If only...

[wed128]

Just got my "Purchase Code" from RS on tuesday; I signed up minutes after they went on sale back in febuary. Be patient, you'll get one eventually.

Re:If only...

[gmanterry]

I just bought a Raspberry Pi at Newark Electronics. $44.xx with shipping and taxes. Whoo Hoo!

to train 100 teachers

[Chrisq]

Hmm, with over 3,900 secondary schools and over 21,000 primary schools in the UK that should go far.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Anonymous Coward]

What, are you suggesting Google should be responsible for the entire UK education system?

Presumably this is a pilot project, and if it goes well, more teachers will be trained and more hardware purchased. At least that's how I'd expect this to work in a sane world.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Anonymous Coward]

Training 100 teachers probably means a 2 hour lecture on plugging the thing in. Google is just after cheap publicity & karma.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[balor]

It should go reasonably far. Each of the 21,000 primary schools (of which I know more about than secondary) are within an administrative area. Generally, the people who head ICT training in these administrative areas are not developers. Furthermore, in the UK primary sector, there exist quite advanced mechanisms for transferring "best practice" from one school to the next. The UK gov't spends real money on this and gets real results in turn. If you train 100 teachers in the current pedagogical best practice for teaching software development, this will (at some level) feed into more than just their school. Ideally, you will see the head ICT trainers in an area being drawn from this initial pool of 100. Or, at the very least, advised by them.

I think this approach, even given the small numbers invovled, is better than previous approaches from the private sector. Previous approaches have involved throwing software and/or hardware over a wall and expecting teachers to know how to integrate it into the curriculum. I'm cautiously optomistic.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Simon Brooke]

For heaven's sake, it's a start, and a start is better than a slap in the face with a wet fish.

Sadly, I think it's England only. Those of you outside the United Kingdom think we're all one country, but we aren't - we're an international union just like the EU. There is no 'UK' educational system. However, we should all of us be supporting initiatives like this where ever we are.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[digitig]

What I don't understand is, why not give them real computers? Surely Google has some old desktop & server systems that are being retired that could be donated, or hell, write a check and buy a couple Linux servers, install Android SDK and relevant tools, and send some of your engineers in for intensive "here's how to hack your phone" training with the teachers. Probably wouldn't cost that much, and would probably have far more "real world" application than these ridiculously overhyped RPis.

Did you notice how the subject being taught is "Computer Science", not "IT"? There's a reason the names are different.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Loads of older, substandard computers will have their own problems -- they won't be a monoculture, so they'll be harder to administer and maintain, especially at a school where IT is often the typing teacher and his smartest student. They'll be on their way to failure and will need to constantly have parts replaced, probably at great cost because, as a government entity, the school will probably have a preferred vendor where they'll buy $100 250 GB drives and $20 case fans. They'll cost more to ship. The Pi costs $7 to ship. A 30 lb. computer would cost closer to $25 or more.

I understand if you think the Pi is underpowered for Excel, but it's perfectly adequate for its purpose: To teach basic computer science skills. Can it run Python? Yes. Can it compile C? Yes. Can it hook up to a keyboard, mouse and TV? Yes. (Note: It was an informed decision to choose TV over composite or HDMI over VGA. Yes, I own VGA monitors. Yes, they can be found cheap. Everyone with a TV has a composite input though and more people have a TV than have a monitor.)

Just because you don't want some small charity to successfully disseminate cheap computers and just because you're butthurt you can't get one for yourself right now (*wah, I want it /nooowwwwwwwwwww/*) doesn't mean it is of no value.

The OLPC failed because they couldn't hit their price point, not because it's underpowered.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Vrekais]

The Raspberry Pi as a tool for teaching Computer Science is definitely high up there on value. Teaching it in the closed system of Windows while still completely possible can lead to some things having to be missed, due to closed administration policies and such. If you're using the Windows machines to store important work and run software used by other subjects then you can't simply have a class of Computing students come in and start re-writing the Operating System (not that they could in windows of course).

The Raspberry Pi however you can do what you like to the OS, you can show the actual way the system handles memory and processor cycles in a much more in depth way and if a student breaks it, you simply format and stick a back up on it which takes minutes rather than the hours that a Windows PC might require. A few decades ago the Computing in Schools was taught on BBC Micros, which had almost no abstraction from what was actually going on (there was some obviously but it wasn't hard to remove that as well), you could even write programs to run from the BIOS chip.

The current state of ICT education is a very MS Office dominated course of how to use a word processor and create excel spreadsheets. Something that perhaps might be best taught in other subjects, I'm not sure. I can see an argument for teaching that stuff, but at the moment it overly dominates the curriculum and it's pretty much what ends up being taught when all you have are common office desktops.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Vrekais]

Tbh I think it's almost criminal how the PGCE currently operates. That you can teach a subject with out even a related degree just seems wrong. I hope it changes by the time I start my PGCE but I doubt it. I'm a comp sci student planning to go onto teach at a Secondary Level but I didn't realise how few teachers had actual comp sci backgrounds or even experience until I started doing placements in schools. Hearing a Head of ICT say he hates programming really was a shocking thing to hear.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[ninjacheeseburger]

Only one school in my area out of six taught A-level computing (not ICT) I think only about 10 of us actually completed the A2. Unless there is a massive increase in demand for the subject, 100 teachers could cover a big area.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Xest]

"Furthermore, in the UK primary sector, there exist quite advanced mechanisms for transferring "best practice" from one school to the next. The UK gov't spends real money on this and gets real results in turn."

Does it? I spent a number of years supporting "Advisory Teachers" who exist outside any one school for precisely the purpose of teaching teachers how to teach and the level of ineptitude was frankly astounding.

In fact, it was from an IT Advisory Teacher that I got my dumbest, most ridiculous ever technical support call once - "Hi, there's no paper in the printer, and an orange light on it and it wont print, can you come and have a look at it?"

Yes that's right, it wouldn't print BECAUSE IT HAD NO FUCKING PAPER IN IT. Her colleague wasn't any better, phoning up almost on a weekly basis to point out that she couldn't get sound on the training suite computer - oddly enough because she hadn't turned the fucking speakers on.

Honestly, Advisory Teachers are a prime example of a non-job, it's a high paid role (£40k - £60k p/a) and it's where teachers who were shit at teaching basically go to die.

It's these people those 100 slots Google is promoting should replace. I cannot describe how inexplicably terrible advisory teachers are. I even made the mistake of engaging in discussion with a maths one once, thinking we may have shared a common interest in maths, but no, her maths qualifications seem to just about extend to counting to 10 and nothing more.

Still it's been some years, maybe things have changed, maybe there are other mechanisms that bypass advisory teachers or something so perhaps you're right. But my experience was that local governments tended to throw literally millions of pounds a year down the drain on these people who - and I say this literally, not figuratively - weren't even fit to pass some of the most basic computing courses out there, which cover things such as doing a mail merge with Word. Bad just isn't a powerful enough word to describe how awful these people were at their jobs.

It sounds like I'm ranting, it sounds like I'm going over the top in my critique of the situation, but it really is quite unbeleivable how much of a train wreck advisory services were in the UK at least some years back - I'd be amazed if they've had a complete turn around since.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Half-pint HAL]

Notice that they're not working with the government, they're working with Teach First. Teach First is a charity (working specifically within the English education sector, not the UK) which places graduates into schools for a two year on-the-job qualification (as opposed to the standard one-year university-based course that has a significant teaching practice component).

Teach First took on 770 new teachers for the 2011-2012 academic year, and a large percentage of them would have been going into secondary subject teaching where computers wouldn't be considered "core" to their job. I reckon 100 is about the number of candidates they'll be placing in suitable roles anyway.

It's also worth noting that Teach First specialises in schools in deprived areas, which generally have difficulty in attracting good teachers and aren't generally well-enough funded to get a decent IT suite on-site.

So yes, it's a small project, but it's a worthy one. And if it works well, the government will have a hard time not following up on it.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Billly Gates]

Half of k12 schools are elementry schools. Kernel internal commands are not appropriate at that level. Even in the highschool level, student need to learn Office and spreadsheet tasks and photoshop work for graphic art classes.

I am not a troll here, but I do wonder if these things have the ram to run LibroOffice or OpenOffice? What about the Gimp? 256 megs is not a lot. A simple import of 250 megs of pics off a student SMMC card can KILL these things easily!

Now if they had a 2nd CPU and maybe 1 gig of ram they could run more software. Is there even an ARM port of LibraOffice or OO available? It runs Java, so I doubt it as no JRE of ARM are available for Linux that are not the crippled micro edition.

These things are useful for very simple websurfing and that is counter productive for students. The little ones use flash intranet and internet sites and that is another thing these machines can't do.

These are cheap and that is the only reason they are talked about. Maybe a $199 netbook program would be more ideal with Windows Starter edition or Ubuntu. A middle school in Alaska uses these with Ubuntu (Dell 9 mini) and they have 1 gig of ram, decent video, and the ones that boot Windows 7 Starter can run flash apps and Office. These would be more appropriate for those who swear by Linux.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Chrisq]

Half of k12 schools are elementry schools. Kernel internal commands are not appropriate at that level. Even in the highschool level, student need to learn Office and spreadsheet tasks and photoshop work for graphic art classes.

I am not a troll here, but I do wonder if these things have the ram to run LibroOffice or OpenOffice? What about the Gimp? 256 megs is not a lot. A simple import of 250 megs of pics off a student SMMC card can KILL these things easily!

Now if they had a 2nd CPU and maybe 1 gig of ram they could run more software. Is there even an ARM port of LibraOffice or OO available? It runs Java, so I doubt it as no JRE of ARM are available for Linux that are not the crippled micro edition.

These things are useful for very simple websurfing and that is counter productive for students. The little ones use flash intranet and internet sites and that is another thing these machines can't do.

These are cheap and that is the only reason they are talked about. Maybe a $199 netbook program would be more ideal with Windows Starter edition or Ubuntu. A middle school in Alaska uses these with Ubuntu (Dell 9 mini) and they have 1 gig of ram, decent video, and the ones that boot Windows 7 Starter can run flash apps and Office. These would be more appropriate for those who swear by Linux.

I think your missing the point. The schools will still have macs and PCs for teaching office skills, these are there to teach computer science. The y allow the kids to have access to a whole system, that they can bootstrap, hack, interface to devices, etc. Your question is a bit like asking whether the Bunsen burners in the science labs will be adequate for the cookery classes - of course they are not they are for something completely different.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[PerfectionLost]

Training 100 teachers probably means a 2 hour lecture on plugging the thing in. Google is just after cheap publicity & karma.

Or if you RTFA:

Schmidt said the funding would be handed to the charity Teach First, to put 100 recent graduates through a six-week training course and give them equipment - including the Raspberry Pi - before sending them into schools to teach.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[tnk1]

I don't have an Engineering degree and I know more about computing than someone who just finished their Master's degree in CS straight out of undergrad. It's called 20 years of practical experience. Degrees are good and all, but let's not get hung up on them.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Billly Gates]

I can see administrators looking to pinch pennies promote these as a replacements. I hope your right. CS work is the only good thing with these as they are limited hardware wise and of course its price.

If the PIE had a 2nd processor and 1 gig of ram these could be awesome systems but would probably cost closer to $99 or $129. Andriod could then run on them as well as Gnu/Linux. Just my wishlist though.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[ZeroSumHappiness]

These do Python and C as well as GPIO. Those are far more valuable in a Computer Science course than an office suite would be. We don't want to train kids to be secretaries, we want to train them to be engineers.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Billly Gates]

There are probably more secretary jobs than engineering jobs. Besides engineers use Excel as much as other software as Office is universal across most Office jobs. But these can be great if they are just used for CS.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Vrekais]

I can totally agree that you probably do know more than a fresh CS grad, but my point was that if you don't have experience in the field that a CS degree should be the minimum requirement for a ICT based PGCE surely.

P.S. I also can't be expected to have 20 years of practical experience when I'm not even 21 yet.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[chill]

You can learn what you need for Excel in a week of basic classes and maybe a week of specialty instruction. Actually, all of it can be learned online if the student is motivated.

This is teaching the basics of CS. HOW and WHY a computer and software work, not can I calculate and graph the equitable division of the lunch check.

While the latter may be useful, the skill sets are not mutually exclusive.

Think of it as the computer educational equivalent of survival and inquiry, not sophistication. [Bonus geek points if you get the reference.]

Re: to train 100 teachers

[VVrath]

Tbh I think it's almost criminal how the PGCE currently operates. That you can teach a subject with out even a related degree just seems wrong.

I am afraid you are mistaken: to begin a PGCE you need to demonstrate suitable subject knowledge - the easiest way to do so is having a degree in a related subject. If your degree is not relevant , there exist two-year conversion courses where the first year is spent at university learning the requisite subject knowledge. If you don't have a degree you can't become a teacher in the UK.

Of course, once you are a qualified teacher you can transfer to teach other subjects at the discretion of your school - If an otherwise skilful teacher wants/needs to change to a subject where they lack the necessary knowledge it is not unknown for schools to send them on a conversion course.

I'm a comp sci student planning to go onto teach at a Secondary Level but I didn't realise how few teachers had actual comp sci backgrounds or even experience until I started doing placements in schools. Hearing a Head of ICT say he hates programming really was a shocking thing to hear.

Comp Sci graduates teaching ICT are in the minority in the UK, but there are valid reasons for that. I have a MEng in Software Engineering, and my Sixth-Formers frequently ask why I'm "wasting" my time in teaching - even they are aware that I could double my salary if I worked in industry. Of course teaching has non-financial rewards, but it's completely understandable that the vast majority of Comp Sci graduates would rather work elsewhere.

The Head of ICT you quoted almost certainly doesn't need to teach programming at the moment, so I suppose it doesn't much matter if he hates it. Be thankful that people like this exist, however; in a few year's time (once the curriculum fully changes to Computing instead of ICT), you'll be replacing them!

Re: to train 100 teachers

[wed128]

Did you notice how the subject being taught is "Computer Science", not "IT"? There's a reason the names are different.

I really wish people would stop making this mistake...to the point that I think we should come up with a name for CS that doesn't have the word "Computer" in it.

"Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes, biology is about microscopes or chemistry is about beakers and test tubes."

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Missing.Matter]

Maybe Computation Science? Then we don't even need to change the acronym.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[aztracker1]

It will work with a TV set or monitor with HDMI.. most flat panels can support an HDMI input, and most school monitors purchased in the last 8 years will work fine.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[aztracker1]

I'd love to see a cheep arm board with a single DDR2/3 slot on it... similar to the PI... dual-core ARM w/ HDMI, USB, MicroSD and DDR2/3 ...

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Jeng]

From what I've read Google doesn't retire servers, they use it till it breaks and then replace it with something better.

One of the very good things you can do with a bunch of cheap computers that you can't do with a few very good computers is create large test networks.

If you want old-but-still-serviceable desktops check out www.discountelectronics.com , they mainly carry retired Dells that can barely run Linux Mint using the LXDE desktop. I'd rather half a dozen Raspberry Pi's than that.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Vrekais]

I didn't realise that there was a test as I haven't started applying for mine yet. I was basing what I knew on having a Science teacher with an English degree (at least that was what I heard maybe that wasn't true). Thanks for the information. I've wanted to be a teacher since I was in Year 10 and definitely not for the high pay check, just liked the feeling of helping some one learn something.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[digitig]

So discrete CMOS gates, I used to build half-adders, full adders and the like when I was learning CS were presumably ridiculously underpowered and they should have given me access to a mainframe? Well, actually, they did give me access to a mainframe, too (admittedly by submitting decks of Hollerith cards, which a van picked up). I learned different stuff on that.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Hognoxious]

Maths?

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Hognoxious]

That must be why that generation of programmers who cut their teeth on the ZX81, Spectrum, Vic20 etc - all of which were underpowered compared to a wristwatch - don't exist.

Fuck, I'm imagining myself! Gotta go, some guy called Descartes on line 1.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Hognoxious]

I'd love to see a cheep arm board

Would you use it for tweeting?

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Hognoxious]

And there are more jobs shovelling shite than there are in plumbing, and more in plumbing than in medicine. And the way things are going there'll be more jobs shooting at foreigners (and getting shot at in return) than all of them put together.

Your point was what?

Re: to train 100 teachers

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Just like teaching math doesn't require a pencil and paper. Or a graphing calculator.

(And just so it doesn't go over your head, here's my point explicitly: Some concepts are easier to teach with proper tools.)

Re: to train 100 teachers

[ZeroSumHappiness]

At $35 a piece it's not that big a risk to send it home with the kids. Those textbooks they take home are $100 jobbies.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Hognoxious]

Tbh I think it's almost criminal how the PGCE currently operates. That you can teach a subject with out even a related degree just seems wrong.

This is news to me, unless things have changed. The rule, based on who taught me, can be summed up as "one level below".

Thus a Biology grad could teach A level biology; if he had A level physics he could teach that to O level to.

Of course it's not 100% clear cut; an engineering grad (at least a good one) would count as an honorary mathematician & depending on specialisation maybe a physicist too. I was taught physics by a metallurgist.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[VVrath]

I didn't realise that there was a test as I haven't started applying for mine yet.

Exactly how each teacher training institution decides if your subject knowledge is good enough is up to the individual institution. Some have an entry test, some a list of specific degree title's they will consider, some assess it during an interview. I did my PGCE at St Martin's College (now part of the University of Cumbria) and they primarily looked at your degree, but if that didn't pass muster would discuss it with applicants during the interview.

I was basing what I knew on having a Science teacher with an English degree (at least that was what I heard maybe that wasn't true).

That doesn't sound ideal! I take it the teacher in question wasn't much use when asked difficult questions? As an ICT teacher I find my subject knowledge gets tested an awful lot more my pupils asking interesting questions than by the demands of the curriculum.

Thanks for the information. I've wanted to be a teacher since I was in Year 10 and definitely not for the high pay check, just liked the feeling of helping some one learn something.

It's the best feeling in the world. We've been teaching year 7s to program (in Scratch) for the last half term (great fun!), and to see how some of them just "switch on" at being able to make their own programs and simple games has been mind-blowing.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Vrekais]

Actually the science teacher was one of the best I had, she was enthusiastic and knowledgeable... there were times when she might not know something ridiculously specific but she'd usually try to find out the answers for us as soon as she could and me and my mates did ask some rather ridiculously pointless questions so feels fair to cut her a little slack.

I'll never forget the day we pointed out she'd positioned the Sodium and Water experiment right under the smoke detector though, never seen a teacher jump on a desk, with a book to waft the detector with, faster in my life (did say she was enthusiastic though).

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Velex]

"Hi, there's no paper in the printer, and an orange light on it and it wont print, can you come and have a look at it?"

That might not have been quite what you thought it was. I've worked in a nearly all female environment for a while now (extremely stable job, company actually started growing when the economy fell apart).

We all had it beat into our heads during the ninties with shows like Home Improvement that males are all lunkheads who are too prideful to ask for help or directions. Naturally, females were portrayed as flawless, rational, civilizing influences that just have some kind of higher existence than a man could ever imagine. And maybe that's still what primtime TV is like, and all that changed last decade was I stopped watching mainstream TV.

The thing is, females typically have a good idea of what needs to be done in a physical-objects situation like that, but there are two things going on there. First, females would rather ask a person a question than read written instructions to the point that most females have severely impaired reading comprehension, which just drives the inclination that their best bet is to ask someone. Presumably there were insructions on the printer for how to change paper, but her preference was to call someone with experience. When a female does that, it's because she has respect for your experience (but not for you because you don't have body parts that can make kids and leave you alone for 25 days out of a 28 day cycle when not making a baby).

Second, females I believe are even more afraid of being wrong than a man is. A man isn't adverse to saying "I don't know" or "I was wrong," but men desire to understand things so they'll try to arrive at answers for themselves, at least a partial answer, before giving up. In the event that the answer is partial or wrong, the man will have a dialogue with someone wiser both in order to acheive a better understanding and also to challenge the other person to ensure that they are, in fact, wiser or more experienced with the matter at hand. The problem is that after all the feminism that was shoved down my throat, I've come to understand that the word dialogue does not mean to a female what I think it means. Instead, the world dialogue as used by a female means "I'm right. You're wrong. And don't dare contradict me."

Therefore, when a task must be completed and a female knows there's no bullshitting her way out of it (in this instance, she does understand full well that the printer needs paper to print), she'll play dumb. That way there's no threat to any of her internal knowledge of the world, and she can continue to believe that she's just somehow better than males.

So, is it irritating when females do that? Yes, especially when they turn around and writing feminist diatribes about how being a woman is so hard and how having long hair is like rape. Does it mean she's an airhead? By no measure.

Just my $0.02. And countdown to being modded troll... Seriously, people, open your eyes and look past the boobs. Females are pampered, and it needs to come to an end because the only kind of equality they were ever after is the Orwellian kind where all genders are equal, but some genders are more equal than other genders.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[camh]

When I did my degree in the early '90s, it was a Bachelor of Applied Science (Computing Science). i.e. about computing, not computers. It seems that this degree from the same uni is now labelled Computer Science. That really irks me, but at least my degree says Computing Science.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Sosarian Avatar]

You should be modded troll for the exact same reason you would be if your entire rant said "blacks" -- because it's a load of prejudiced nonsense.

I've known one female (ironically, my mother) that believed in the obnoxious junk about needing to ask guys for help or act stupid in order to boost their ego, or that actually enjoyed being 'taken care of'. While very few females are as far in the opposite direction as I am (after breaking my kneecap on an off-trail hike in the Sierras, I declined assistance & didn't complain on the two miles back to the car), the majority are markedly more like me than like her. A few of them have the ability with computers needed to pursue a career, but met enough bigots like you in classes, user groups, etc. to take another career path.

The plain fact is, it doesn't matter what subgroup of humanity in society you refer to, they're made up of individuals with different abilities, preferences, attitudes, beliefs, temperaments, and so forth -- so any blanket statement that refers to them by that group that isn't a direct reference to the relevant trait (i.e. disabled people have impairments) is automatically going to be out of whack. It's pretty basic-level logic; if you're a fraction as superior as you claim -- or weren't blinded by bigotry -- you'd already realize that.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[tofarr]

Maybe "Hi, there's no paper in the printer, and an orange light on it and it wont print, can you come and have a look at it?" is a subtle way of asking : "Where the hell do you keep the paper, and could you show me how to change it as I have never been shown and am afraid I might break this thing!"

Re: to train 100 teachers

[RaceProUK]

That works for the theoretical aspects. (Soft|Hard)ware Engineering covers the practical aspects.

The problem is Information Systems, which is basically IT with extra maths, but is often taught by CS departments.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Xest]

Possibly, but when the reams of spare paper were kept right next to the printer, the printer had a simple top loading tray with a big picture of a piece of paper and an arrow showing where to put it, coupled with the fact it's the same printer she'd been using for about 3 years, I'm not convinced.

It may not have been incompetence I suppose, it could've been laziness - easier to pick up the phone and ring me than engage her brain but either way, it's clearly not a person anywhere near competent enough to be doing any kind of IT training to teachers, or anyone for that matter.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[DaVince21]

The whole thing is so confused I don't think we even have the subject of CS in the Netherlands. At least, I'm pretty sure I studied IT.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Velex]

Sorry. I wouldn't be the misogyinist I am today without having been forcefed an adequate amount of drivel from you females about how all men are rapists, etc and being told to know my role enough.

I'll know my role when you get in my kitchen and make me a sandwich.

Again, as I've been saying lately, I wish I knew how to get to your parallel universe. It sounds like a better one than mine.

Re: to train 100 teachers

[Velex]

I hit submit too fast. I used to believe what you're saying. It would seem basic logic.

I guess you get worn down after a while.

You can wear pants the day I can go outside in one of my nice, long skirts I like without needing to worry about what gender someone is going to assign to me and the ensuing drama of someone gendering me male in a skirt because I was forced through male puberty, which left a good number of unerasable features. Usually, though, people gender me female until I speak and the wrong voice comes out or make some other faux paux because I didnt have the advantage of learning all the basics about being a girl in the first 5 years of my life.

What a difference it makes, depending on how someone genders you. I've had people both mistake me for a man, then apologize to their embarassment that they called a lady "sir," and the other way around (more common) as well. And how moving it is for some people to mistake a "man" for a "woman." I once had a restaurant owner call the police and attempt to press charges against me for trespassing because he couldn't make up his mind what gender I was (not to mention rob two of my friends at that time who hadn't received their order--fortunately the police forced the owner to refund them).

Once I was talking to a guy who was interested in me, and I excused myself to the restroom. Half way through relieving myself, he entered and was absolutely amazed to see me there, in front of a urinal (obviously pants that night, no skirt. sometimes pockets are handy). I always use the men's restroom no matter how I'm dressed just because you females can get violent if you believe there's a "man" in your female-only space. One time I walked into the men's room, and this big guy said, "wrong door!" My reply was "nope," to which he riposted, "get a hair cut!"

That should be a suitable segue. You females enjoy so many gender privileges. I know. I've been on the other side of the fence. The grass is greener. When someone genders you female, everything is so much easier.

Why is it ok for you females to have your hair however you please? Why is it ok for you females to wear whatever you damned well want, and in the case of high heels you can even bitch about it, bitch about the choice you made. I'm only 5'5". I could use heels more than most of you females. And why is it ok for you females to sleep with guy after guy after guy and juggle 3 boyfriends at a time? Have 5 kids with 4 different men? And how the hell did the idea that you females are better communicators or nurturers or better anything other than baby machines ever come about?

I am forced to work as a man, because that's what you damned females said I was. And yet you feel no remorse when Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin or that bitch you females love Janet Raymond gets up and tells men to know their role. I am not your slave. I can always escape you, because I can always die.

Is there a parallel universe were females aren't pigs? I don't know. It's the internet. Nobody knows you're a [giraffe] on the internet.

Re:100 Teachers

[Theophany]

If he paid for 4364 teachers, it still would not be his strong point.

The idea is that he has put his money where his mouth is, now the government should do the same.

Re:100 Teachers

[u38cg]

Well, you can only train so many teachers at a time, and there are only so many positions available though.

It's a start

[jholyhead]

That would bring the total number of specialist Computer Science teachers in the UK to...100.

Re:It's a start

[Xiaran]

When I was doing Computing in High School the guy teaching us was a first year CompSci student part time. I quickly learnt that all of his homework assignments were in fact his homework and assignments for basically Programming 101. I was not sure if this guy was evil or a genius.

Re:It's a start

[digitig]

I was not sure if this guy was evil or a genius.

"Or"???

Re:It's a start

[rvw]

I was not sure if this guy was evil or a genius.

"Or"???

"Not"???

Re:It's a start

[rvw]

That would bring the total number of specialist Computer Science teachers in the UK to...100.

Yeah and of course those Google bastards use the binary system. So they get credit for one hundred teachers, but only deliver four.

Re:It's a start

[wed128]

"OR" in the logical sense, as opposed to "XOR"

Re:It's a start

[stewski]

I'm one I look forward to meeting the other 79 I already know at least 20...

Re:It's a start

[randomsearch]

Parent modded 'Funny'; actually, was a slight exaggeration... it would be 101.

Funding schmunding

[Hognoxious]

From all the gripes I see the problem is finding the little buggers.

Has anyone here actually held one in his sweaty hand?

Re:Funding schmunding

[Quince alPillan]

They're currently highly backordered (to the point that they're limiting how many people can order and in what quantities at one time). I just ordered mine today, and I was on the waiting list since the official launch. The delivery time said ~3 weeks.

Re:Funding schmunding

[deroby]

Man, I read your first line as 'the little buggers' = the school-children ... as apparently the UK has a bit of a problem with pupils skipping school.
That made reading the second line kind of weird !

Re:Funding schmunding

[Anonymous Coward]

I now wonder if you were talking about Raspberry Pi's, at first I thought you were backordering CS teachers, and finding the little buggers has been difficult.

Re:Funding schmunding

[mrbill1234]

Hmm, yes.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1366/raspi.jpg

I managed to get an order in on launch day, but not for one of the first 200 units, the 1st batch which I got about 3 weeks ago.

Re:Funding schmunding

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno I registered interest on both sites (farnell and RS) from two different email accounts - and I already have 2 of them and have 2 more on the way in the next week or so (already shipped)

Re:Funding schmunding

[FrostedWheat]

I have one sitting on my desk right now. Although I ordered it on the morning of release, and it only arrive last week.

Re:Funding schmunding

[psergiu]

Two, actually :)
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=6012

Re:Funding schmunding

[ZeroSumHappiness]

I've actually been invited into the queue twice so far, but haven't bit. I'm getting ready to move house so I don't want to be getting packages that'll get lost in the move. I'm also seriously considering waiting for the A model anyway.

Re:Funding schmunding

[Half-pint HAL]

You realise that when a big company like Google promises to buy a couple of crates, that guarantees the next batch and helps build economies of scale, right? Also, Google will be buying them with prebuilt cases, which is something that was left out of the first run for reasons of cost. Set up case construction to fulfill this order, and then the additional unit cost of cases for other buyers is negligible.

Re:Funding schmunding

[digitig]

I'm on a waiting list to join the waiting list :(

I might have to start looking for one of the alternatives.

Re:Funding schmunding

[Elegor]

Mine arrived last Friday (18th May) from RS Components. I guess I must have been in the first 10,000 orders, which made getting up at 6am worthwhile!

I've been enjoying watching my 7-year old son playing with Scratch, and have also enjoyed trying out OpenElec XBMC and Raspbmc. The latter two can be a bit slow on navigating around the menus (and seem to get slower as time goes on) but they both play streamed videos (e.g. YouTube and IPlayer) pretty much flawlessly, even at HD. I'm sure they will both speed up with a bit of optimisation - these are the very first releases after all.

Re:Funding schmunding

[CrazyBusError]

Yep, I got mine 3 weeks ago. Typically, I haven't had time to do any more than write the basic Debian install to an SD card and make sure it boots.

Sorry.

Re:Funding schmunding

[PReDiToR]

Yes, a few people.

I'm PReDiToR @ YO2, York, England.

I can't guarantee any degree of accuracy with that map, nor can the owner of the page (thanks Ryan) because there is no verification.

Re:Funding schmunding

[Missing.Matter]

There's nothing incredibly exceptional about the RPi except its price. The alternative options (Beagleboard, Gumstix, etc.) out there are completely viable options, and for the greater expense you typically get more power and flexibility. Plus you don't have to wait 3+ months to order one.

Re:Funding schmunding

[randomsearch]

> From all the gripes I see the problem is finding the little buggers.

> Has anyone here actually held one in his sweaty hand?

I registered with RS at 10am on the day of launch. They neglected to notify the mailing list that it was launching, so I was late. I finally got to order just over a week ago, and was told it should arrive within 3 weeks. I think they're close to clearing the backlog of orders, as the Pi's are now in serial production.

By my reckoning, you should be able to order sometime next month without a place in the queue.

RS

Re:Funding schmunding

[Elegor]

There's no flash on the pi, so it won't play YouTube videos I'm afraid. I wondered if it might work in Chromium using HTML5, but it doesn't seem to for some reason and I haven't had time to investigate why.

It does work in XBMC though (see http://www.raspbmc.com/) which you can write to an SD card in the same way that you did for Debian.

Re:100 Teachers

[deroby]

Ah, you're missing the big picture : thanks to the power of google's MapReduce algorithms those 100 teachers can easily spread the (home) work over those 4000-ish schools !

(I know, I know...)

Re:100 Teachers

[Goose In Orbit]

The way this lot are going - that's exactly how they'd have everything done (so they can get a lovely directorship once the electorate have turfed them out)

Nothing better than something?

[crazyjj]

Scrapping the existing curriculum was a good first step

Why not continue the existing program until you develop a replacement? I'm pretty sure even a flawed program is better than none at all.

Re:Nothing better than something?

[Anonymous Coward]

There wasn't a previous curriculum. ICT was a Microsoft designed qualification in Office "skills". For one small assignment for my A-Levels I had to use every feature of Microsoft word in a single document. Yep, I had to use word art to get marks. It was unbearable documenting office software button by button and I gave up, turned it in half done. I got pathetic C in ICT... however I am now lead graphics programmer at an award winning games developers.

The current curriculum's in ICT and computing, had to be scrapped immediately before they put off another generation from learning the skills they need.

Re:Nothing better than something?

[Simon Brooke]

Scrapping the existing curriculum was a good first step

Why not continue the existing program until you develop a replacement? I'm pretty sure even a flawed program is better than none at all.

Because the 'existing program', in England, literally was worse than nothing. It was teaching children to use obsolete versions of Microsoft Office.

Re:Nothing better than something?

[Ice Tiger]

Maybe because it drives you to action sooner

Re:Nothing better than something?

[ZeroSumHappiness]

I addition to other points, it could be valuable to scrap the current program, even if it's positive, if its cost to benefit ratio is bad enough. Think of it like this: If you have a used car and it costs $500 a month to keep it repaired but you don't have the $3000 for a down payment on a new car it could be worth it to take the bus for four or five months over the late spring through early autumn while you save up for a new car. Instead of a constant $500 a month and being late to work because it's never running right you endure the pain of public transit for a little while so that at the end you'll be on more secure footing for a more reliable and beneficial result.

Same thing. Instead of pouring resources into a failing program scrap it, research a good replacement, reassign saved resources to that program.

Re:Nothing better than something?

[WillerZ]

I did a similar exam in, I guess, 1999; you could get an A+ in about 20 seconds without looking at the screen. The last sentence advised you to compare what you had done to sample.doc, so I typed:

Ctrl+O sample.doc Enter Alt+F A .doc Enter.

I then went through the paper to verify that there weren't any hidden extras or obvious flaws in the sample (there weren't) and delete any metadata (there was none).

Re:Nothing better than something?

[Xest]

Not really, the existing programmes put people off of computing for life, which was far worse than just giving them a bad education in it.

Re:Nothing better than something?

[SimonInOz]

In 1972 I completed what would have been among the first "A" levels in Computer Science in UK. It was pretty good, ran at the local technical college, where they had an IBM 1130 with a card reader, printer and - wait for it - 4kb of main memory! We learned FORTRAN IV - and I was keen so also learned a few other languages. It was all pretty new, even exciting enough that a TV company came down and filmed some stuff (including the plotter output from one of my program - sadly I wasn't there, missing my chance at fame).
In fact, it was pretty good, and leads me on to a pretty decent degree in Computer Science at (thank you) Essex University.
And here I am, forty years later, still working in the field. No Ferrari, but no starvation so I guess I did ok.

I did flee Britain's awful weather though. Sydney is much nicer (usually - perhaps not this year).

DO NOT WANT

[MarkGriz]

"give classrooms Raspberry Pis"

Uhm.. no thanks.

Re:DO NOT WANT

[digitig]

"give classrooms Raspberry Pis"

Uhm.. no thanks.

Better than frosty...

Meanwhile

[JoeCommodore]

Microsoft has given engineers a new directive to get Windows running on the Raspberry Pi platform.

Re:Meanwhile

[AmiMoJo]

With 256MB RAM?

Re:Meanwhile

[gman003]

That's enough for Windows XP, actually. Maybe not with the later service packs installed (SP2 added a LOT of stuff), but I've run a usable XP machine on less.

Re:Meanwhile

[cgt]

Or Windows Vista

Re:Meanwhile

[PReDiToR]

WinCE (WindowsMobile) would be happy enough in 256MB.
I used to have a few HTC WinMo devices, helped along by the wonderful team at XDA Developers. Maybe digging that old source code out and giving it to the community would help re-establish WinMo as a viable platform on devices like this?

Re:Meanwhile

[aztracker1]

Windows CE should work. The ARM version of Windows 8 may work with some tweaking...

Re:Meanwhile

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Pshh. Set it to 1x1 monochrome and adapt. Everything's just 1s and 0s, right?

WOOT!

[Deliveranc3]

WOOT!

Re:100 Teachers

[strength_of_10_men]

100 teachers, each training another 100, who in turn train another 100. Perspicacity is obviously not your strong point. But I guess if you can't do anything else, at least you can bitch.

Why?

[Billly Gates]

It can't run most educational software nor children's oriented flash websites. I do not see the value in these.

Until HTML 5 takes over they wont be that usefull and the article is looking at these as Mac and PC replacements for outdated equipment.

Re:Why?

[digitig]

It can't run most educational software nor children's oriented flash websites. I do not see the value in these.

Until HTML 5 takes over they wont be that usefull and the article is looking at these as Mac and PC replacements for outdated equipment.

The schools have computers that do that, and so do most of the kids. These are for teaching computer science, not web browsing 101.

Re:Why?

[Half-pint HAL]

Desktop computing is not an all-or-nothing affair. The Raspberry Pi is definitely powerful enough to run a terminal front-end.

The last project I worked on before leaving corporate IT was to get a mixed-mode environment up and running -- some users on Wyse terminals, some on desktop PCs. The project I was on before that was maintaining a desktop suite that was backed up by specialist software on Citrix in the datacentre. The main motivation for this was so that the client didn't have to buy top-spec machines for every desk when most users would only be emailing and writing Word .docs. The same principle applies in schools.

In fact, I would argue that it's in the interests of educational software suppliers to move to a thin-client model. The current heterogenity of the PC market makes software support a real headache. If they were to start supplying their software preinstalled on a small server, and only install VNC on the desktops, then it wouldn't matter what software and hardware the PCs were running, the actual execution environment would be identical.

Re:Why?

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Because "educational software" and "children's oriented flash websites" are not the target. The target is to get kids using Python and C. You know, computer science, not computer consumerism.

Re:Why?

[Billly Gates]

That works for specialized tasks.

You can't import a gig of photos from an SD card for the school Yearbook club on a Pi running VNC to a server. It would choke and the gimp would kill the graphics hardware on the server if it had to support 300 users running it.

Schools still use Macs because they are cheaper to support and have a lower TCO than PC headaches for many schools. Anchorage is one school district that is still Mac based and for this reason support costs are lowered. The secretaries at the schools use Parrels for their Windows 2003 server software for school attendance from their iMacs running terminal server. Its always having problems during exam time as so many teachers log into the same servers to upgrade grades that it crashes as single point of failure.

These things are as useful as Lego Mindstorms used by some highschool courses but that is about it. I just do not want to see them replace macs and pcs because of some idiot cost accountant looking to get his bonus.

Re:Why?

[rufty_tufty]

It can't run most educational software nor children's oriented flash websites. I do not see the value in these.

I agree, I see no value in flash websites either.

(quote> the article is looking at these as Mac and PC replacements for outdated equipment.

Did you read the same article as me? I saw an article talking about using them to teach computer science. While HTML5/flash is part of computer science everything you need to know to get the principles of computer science could have been learnt on an Amiga or Zx Spectrum. The platform does not matter as long as it is hackable* and interesting**.
*i.e. you have access to the low level bits and when you break them they're easy to fix.
** i.e. it has the capabilities of a low-mid range smart phone, which it does.

Re:Why?

[polyp2000]

The Raspberry Pi people have made it clear that they want the initial batches of the boards in the hands of developers first and foremost.
Guess what ? thats where 90% (i imagine!) of them are ending up at the moment. I have hopes that sort of saturation there will be a substantial amount
of software appearing in the coming months. I also imagine that there is a ton of open source education software out there that will not be too much
trouble to compile for ARM. There are also distro's like Edubuntu which are prime candidates for porting !

I have a much more optimistic view about things and i really hope this turns out to be a success!

As with any new computer or games console - no point in putting them in the hands of consumers until there is a good software library to boot!

N ...

Re:Why?

[Half-pint HAL]

That works for specialized tasks.

You can't import a gig of photos from an SD card for the school Yearbook club on a Pi running VNC to a server. It would choke and the gimp would kill the graphics hardware on the server if it had to support 300 users running it.

But they're not kitting out an entire school exclusively with Pis, though, are they? They're using the Pi as the basis for a high school computing class based on software development, rather than desktop IT. When I was at high school, the Computer Studies department was kitted out with Archimedeses, the Business Studies department ran on bottom-end PCs (or possibly even PCWs) and the library had BBC Micro, Archimedes and even a Mac. Some of the other departments still had BBC Micros that they used occasionally for simple software demos. My Dad even wrote some question sheets in Wordwise. (In fact, me and my dad were kind of pivotal in getting PCs into the school -- when we got Windows 95 at home, Dad made some pretty nifty worksheets (with a little help from me) and within a year the headmaster had bought a PC for my dad's department.)

There's no harm in splitting the computer fleet into a "computer studies suite" and a "multimedia suite".

Qualified staff numbers stay at zero

[petes_PoV]

That would bring the total number of specialist Computer Science teachers in the UK to...100.

No, it would leave it at zero. As soon as the teachers become qualified in an IT topic that's in demand they'll be off into a "proper" job (you know: desk, phone, work-colleagues they can chat to, coffee when they please, unlimited surfing and a spot of working, too) that doesn't involve being in a room with a bunch of angry/hostile/bored/demotivated/sociopathic children - and the kids in the classes are even worse that the ones in the staff room.

Donating failing old equipment not a solution

[fantomas]

Shipping end-of-life hardware and dumping it in rural and small town schools does not make a sustainable or well thought out pedagogical approach to providing computer science training to 11-18 year olds.

Africa is full of rusting unsupported hardware like tractors. We don't need to join that model with a bunch of out of date PCs and servers.

Teachers are very busy people. They can't drop everything because The Great Google Engineer has come in to town.They have lessons to plan, kids to teach, exams to get students through.

Start with a well thought out teaching and learning programme that fits in to the national curriculum and provides a parthway to vocational or university level education. Once you've written this, then send in the trainers and the appropriate hardware.

Don't forget we have 25,000 schools you have to cover.

Rubbish

[Kupfernigk]

What do you know about Teach First? It's a scheme, very successful in the US and the UK, to persuade high achieving graduates to at least spend a couple of years in teaching. Some of them stay; my daughter and her fiance are department heads at an early age. If they don't stay, at least when they get into business they are more likely to have an insight into the backgrounds and capabilities of a lot of the people who will work for them.

Eric Schmidt has done exactly the right thing. It's a pity that it takes someone like him to have a much better idea of how to spend money (and fix CS teaching in achools) than our politicians.

Slightly off topic

[Kupfernigk]

I just advised someone today about resolving an issue I first encountered on a multiprocessor setup with a 1MHz clock and a "local network" based on two FIFO rings going in opposite directions. Computer science is computer science, even if it is done with punch cards. No: thinking about Feynman's work at Los Alamos, especially if it is done with punched cards. (partial subroutines for error correction on IBM machines using coloured card decks, anybody?)

Re:100 Teachers

[PhilHibbs]

This is the internet. An opinion must be an exaggerated parody of an opinion, or it is considered worthless and derisory. I demand that either you agree that they should train the entire UK population to be CS teachers, or that they should shut up and do nothing!

Woot! Got one.

[tomuo]

On launch day I managed to get my email address entered in the RS website a few hours after the official start, didn't think I was anywhere near the front of the queue. Last week I got an email with the order token, and now I have it! (California) Ordered a laser cut clear case off ebay.uk, that came quickly too. Looking forward to bringing it up with my 8 yr and 6yr old sons this weekend.

Why only English Schools get the funding?

[Taco Cowboy]

Why should UK get all?

How about school kids from other countries?

Isn't UK still considered a developed country?

Why pour funds into schools of an already developed country while hundreds of millions of under-privileged school kids from not-yet-developed countries all over the world don't get nothing?

What kind of "Good Will" Google hopes to get by doing so?

Re:Why only English Schools get the funding?

[Hognoxious]

Why should UK get all?

Because we asked nicely.

Re:Why only English Schools get the funding?

[DaVince21]

Because the UK is really underdeveloped in this respect. Their current definition of "IT" is learning how to use MS Word, and that's how the curriculum is.

The Raspberry Pi guys can explain this one a lot better than I can. It's their mission statement to improve the poor state of IT in the UK, after all.

obligatory /. joke

[Sosarian Avatar]

But I like being slapped in the face with a wet fish, you insensitive clod!