Facebook Releases Instagram Clone, Two Months After Acquisition

redletterdave writes "Six days after the company's IPO and two months after it acquired photo-sharing app company Instagram for $1 billion, Facebook debuted a photo app of its own on Thursday, called Facebook Camera. The app is now available as a free download in the App Store, and it's currently only available for iPhone and iPod Touch owners. Facebook Camera is set up very similarly to Instagram and includes most of the same features (including photo filters), but Dirk Stoop, Facebook's product manager for photos, said Facebook was working on this application long before the Instagram acquisition on April 9."

Comments

Microsoft of social networking?

[Pecisk]

It seems that Facebook not only have taken Bill's money, but also followed his footsteps in dealing with competition.

Actually I don't even care anymore. I don't use FB that frueqently, and slowly migrating away to G+ for geeky stuff. For rest I have email :)

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Ihmhi]

I think this represents an interesting dichotomy for geeks.

For instance, you might have the whole "going to dinner parties with the wife" thing in order to maintain a social norm. Meanwhile, you'd rather be in your garage tinkering with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino or something in your garage and making an anti-squirrel turret for your backyard.

As I'm getting older I'm realizing more and more that the hobbies I find intellectually satisfying are rarely something that can be plugged into a social component. As good (and intelligent) as my friends are, most of them wouldn't want to spend an afternoon learning something interesting in Perl or building a robot for the fuck of it. We go out for drinks or to a diner or something like that. I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day.

No wonder we spend all of our time in the basement. It's the only place we can get any of the really interesting shit done, and almost no one wants to join us.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how do you think every other corporation handles it? Google, Apple, Oracle, ... whichever you like the most, also does it. Buy, disassemble, take the interesting bits, and throw away (or sell) the leftovers.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pick up a hobby that blends well with a social component. Homebrewing beer, for example.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[NoName Studios]

You just need to branch out and find more friends. Not uncommon for my friends to get together with their laptops at one house and code all night with a few movies playing in the background. I will hop over to another friend's house, help him with vehicle wiring and electronics issues.

It does help that the only thing to do in the city around here is go out and get drunk.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[antifoidulus]

Actually they are turning into something akin to Microsoft, but not for the reasons you described. In the past(and to a lesser extent even today) Microsoft would often release several different, but completely incompatible, versions of the same thing. For instance 2 different DRM schemes, neither which was compatible with the other or even many of Microsofts own products for that matter. At one point they had THREE mobile operating systems on the market, all incompatible with the others software. This is not a recipe for success, and Microsofts slow, painful, but inexorable decline proves it.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Pecisk]

Then I must be happy, because while my spose isn't computer geek, she is in literature and libraries and other really engaging stuff. And my friends and former classmates are geeks more or less too.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[nozzo]

"I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day" wow, you've just described the way I feel. What we need is to combine the two to have "intellectually stimulating social interaction". Something like a geek club where you can bring your projects to show-off or have a brainstorm debug session, drink beer and have a good time.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[heptapod]

Enjoy only speaking with Wil Wheaton and Google engineers bemoaning their failed social network.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy only speaking with Wil Wheaton and Google engineers bemoaning their failed social network.

Or Linus Torvalds. I guess there must be others too? Don't use it myself I'll admit.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously if you don't have friends with common interests beyond dinner and drinks, you have done a poor job building relationships.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[foniksonik]

Probably his wife's friends and their husbands. That's luck of the draw.

Join a club for your interests. Then invite someone with a spouse to dinner. Maybe it works out past the club and the spouses get along, maybe not. Better than just being polite and accepting what comes your way.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just out of curiosity, given that this is Slashdot 2012, when you say you're "getting older", does that mean you're between 76-82?

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no, they might make evil profits. Damn it, we can't quite stop the in the US yet, but were working on it.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[gstoddart]

You just need to branch out and find more friends.

Or, you need to branch out and engage in the kinds of things other people like to do.

It's not uncommon for my friends to get together at someone's house for a potluck or a pool party and mill around the various conversations and groups that form.

You know, 40 or so people interacting and socializing, variously discussing work, kids, vacations, cars ... that kind of stuff.

There is life outside of geek, and it can actually be quite rewarding.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[helix2301]

I think that purchasing Instagram was to beef up there weak IPO. I never heard of Instagram until Facebook purchased it. I think over all Mark Zuckenburg deals with his competition by buying them out or patenting code. We will see if Facebook can hold on with all these lawsuits coming down the pipe.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

No wonder we spend all of our time in the basement. It's the only place we can get any of the really interesting shit done, and almost no one wants to join us.

Here are some things that are both social and interesting (to some): bridge/card clubs, martial arts (aikido, judo, kung fu), fencing (kendo, sabre, epee), dancing (ballroom), dodge ball, rock climbing.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[witherstaff]

The various animal clubs around here - Lions, Elks, Moose, etc - are basically a way to get together and drink beer. They do some community activities but I know at least the local lions is more of an excuse to get together twice a month for a dinner with the guys. Although this is changing now that our Lions is now co-ed. One downside of being a non-drinker, after awhile at any party there are far fewer brain cells working around you than when it started with.

Perhaps it's time to take our cue from O'Reilly and adopt an oddball animal for a more intellectual social club? Not too smart, the best the regional Mensa does I believe are a few brunches. That doesn't seem all that entertaining.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[gstoddart]

Not too smart, the best the regional Mensa does I believe are a few brunches. That doesn't seem all that entertaining.

Not to slag Mensa too badly here, but the few people I've met who are Mensa members have made me go "if it's a club full of people like you, I'm not really interested".

Mensa is a group that self selects to get together and wallow in how smart they are. It just may not be everybody's cup of tea. There's a perception that it might be a bunch of insufferable boors who like to feel smug together.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Stele]

Key parties yo!

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Freemasonry.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[MisterSquid]

Or, you need to branch out and engage in the kinds of things other people like to do.

Or maybe you need to branch out and get some reading comprehension. The GP explicitly said

As good (and intelligent) as my friends are, most of them wouldn't want to spend an afternoon learning something interesting in Perl or building a robot for the fuck of it. We go out for drinks or to a diner or something like that. I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day.

That is, he does "branch out and engage in the kinds of things other people like to do." The issue is that doing so presents a dichotomous life where his social interaction doing things others like is not intellectually fulfilling.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Tackhead]

No wonder we spend all of our time in the basement. It's the only place we can get any of the really interesting shit done, and almost no one wants to join us.

Old joke:

Three NASA engineers, one from headquarters in Washington, one from the Johnson center in Houston, and one from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena were discussing whether it was better to have a wife or a mistress.

The HQ guy said it was better to have a mistress, because they are more understanding of the long absences required of a NASA employee. The Johnson guy retorted, "Oh, no, one must always follow proper rules and procedures, and marriage is the proper procedure, so it is better to have a wife."

The JPL engineer replied, "No, it is better to have both. That way, you can tell your wife that you're with your mistress, your mistress that you're with your wife, and go to the lab and work."

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Nadaka]

Mensa is full of people dumb enough that they have to pay someone to tell them how smart they are.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[desdinova 216]

I wish I still had mod points, +1 funny

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[amRadioHed]

...The issue is that doing so presents a dichotomous life where his social interaction doing things others like is not intellectually fulfilling.

So his social interactions aren't intellectually fulfilling. His intellectual endeavors clearly aren't socially fulfilling either. What's wrong with doing both?

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Inefficient.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[tlhIngan]

"I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day"

  wow, you've just described the way I feel. What we need is to combine the two to have "intellectually stimulating social interaction". Something like a geek club where you can bring your projects to show-off or have a brainstorm debug session, drink beer and have a good time.

They exist, and have for a few years now - they're called "hackerspaces" and while generally places where people get together to use tools they may not otherwise be able, tend to be a gathering place for all sorts of people. Lots of people come just for the social aspect and not to use tools they don't have, and there's plenty of showing off and other stuff. Sure they won't all be programming Perl or soldering Arduinos together, but getting like-minded people together expands your horizons.

And if they don't exist in your area - start one.

And heck, even if you got a bunch of people who are only interested in welding art together, so be it - show off some of your work to them and observe some of theirs. Perhaps they always wanted some sort of controlled lighting for their project and you can help them.

Oh, and try to break out from the usual thinking of going for a drink is socializing. It is, but branch out. There are plenty of activities that can be done. Take a course in dance. Or art. Or teach a course in electronics and programming at the community college. If you go to non-intellectually stimulating places to socialize (e.g., clubbing), don't be surprised that the social activity is not intellectually stimulating.

And if your social interactions are online (forums/chats/etc) - arrange an offline meet and greet. Doesn't have to be fancy with barbecues and such, just bring interesting stuff, order some pizza or whatever, etc.

Finally, no, socializing isn't difficult for introverts at all - if you get together with a group of those with like interests, that's already a huge social barrier gone, and if nothing else, you all work on your own projects whilst together. Someone will then ask a question to this "off line forum" and there you go.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[History's Coming To]

When I was in high school, one of the first honours I got was to be a member of the Arista, which is a group of kids who got good grades - eh? - and everybody wanted to be a member of the Arista, and when I got into the Arista I discovered that what they did in their meetings was to sit around to discuss who else was worthy to join this wonderful group that we are - okay? So we that around trying to decide who it was who would get to be allowed into this Arista. This kind of thing bothers me psychologically for one or another reason I don't understand myself - honours - and from that day to this always bothered me. When I became a member of the National Academy of Sciences, I had ultimately to resign because that was another organisation most of whose time was spent in choosing who was illustrious enough to join, to be allowed to join us in our organisation, including such questions as we physicists stick together because they've a very good chemist that they're trying to get in and we haven't got enough room for so-and-so. What's the matter with chemists? The whole thing was rotten because its purpose was mostly to decide who could have this honour - okay? I don't like honours.

~Richard Feynman

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Hognoxious]

you'd rather be in your garage tinkering with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino or something in your garage

Yo dawg...

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[SolitaryMan]

You know, 40 or so people interacting and socializing, variously discussing work, kids, vacations, cars ... that kind of stuff.

Honestly, to me this sounds horrifying.

There is life outside of geek, and it can actually be quite rewarding.

Different people like different kind of stuff.

May be I'm just getting old too fast, but I find these social interactions more and more shallow and pointless. When I was young, going to this kind of social events was a good way to meet girls, but now that I'm married this point is gone. It can also be good for "networking", getting to know people you can have business relationship with. Looking back, however, I see that all my relationships with people I met this way are pretty shallow too. Many of them are geeks, but it turned out that even as geeks we are interested in different kind of stuff. Some of them are theoretical physicists, some electric engineers, some programmers, and at the end of the day, pretty much the only things we can talk about is stuff we equally suck at: finances, cars, etc.

With other activities, like surfing, biking, boating, skiing, whatever, I don't see any point in doing it in a social group too: people who are worse at it are just holding back those who are good. So, what is the reward, exactly?

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[garryknight]

For rest I have email :)

Email? I remember that. We had that back when I was alive...

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[fbobraga]

"geek" = "nerd" + "gay"

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

You just need to find the right friends. I have a female friend for example who spends days or weeks fiddling with code to get one little thing working.

While she can be considered 'nerdy' she's not what you'd call smart. While you might've learned perl in a couple weeks, I've known her for 5+ years and she can barely work in C, perl, or anything else. But the two things I can give her credit for are: persistence and enough stupid ideas for a few of them to stick.

Point being though that you don't have to divest social interests from techie interests, you just have to move your social circle to where you can find them, which unfortunately is often difficult since a lot of these groups do not geographically congregate. On the other hand, between MU*s, IRC, Usenet, and BBS/Forums, a lot of these groups DO congregate online, complete with social interaction, however were I to solicit a poll of the majority of 'nerds' that I interact with on a regular basis, almost none of them can be found within driving distance of me (Barring those in Silicon Valley/The Bay Area, which I cannot ATM afford to visit on a regular basis.), and few share more than one or two specific interests with me.

captcha was: lasted

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, thats a "Gerd". Or a "Gard". Or a "nay"/"ney"

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[yotto]

Nothing, and from what I can tell from the original post he has nothing wrong with them either.

But doing both TOGETHER? No. Not very fun.

I wonder if this is just a better explanation of why I don't like Facebook. My explanation is, "it sucks."

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

I modded you down as "Overrated". Just so you know.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

The JPL engineer replied, "No, it is better to have both. That way, you can tell your wife that you're with your mistress, your mistress that you're with your wife, and go to the lab and work."

Hilariously true because only a JPL engineer would OVER COMPLICATE to that level rather than realizing that the best solution was to have neither.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think over all Mark Zuckenburg deals with his competition by buying them out or patenting code

Absolutely! The man is a control freak of the worst caliber, which in his case I believe is a side affect of being obsessive/compulsive. If had better business sense he would almost certainly represent the Bill Gates of his generation... unfortunately for him I believe his personality (and persona due to stories about him) have made that a difficult road, I think we'll find that in the medium term we'll find companies which will tailor themselves specifically with the intend of being bought out by Facebook, and others which will specifically and vehemently oppose it by turning into the wave and attempting to come out the other side in one piece, and I predict a relatively low success rate for them.

I believe he/they also took a calculated risk in buying Instagram--they knew it wasn't worth a billion, but the threat of missing a key new social feature, or litigation, could have easily cost them a billion at the IPO. They astronomically overpaid for that company rather than risk any sort of tarnish or sign of weakness. In some ways they make me think of a well armed platoon entering what will be a long battle--they have a few choices, they could rush in with force and fire power crushing everything in their path at the start; or they could move with strategy and rationing. I believe they are currently doing the former, and I believe it because they are more interested in wall street and analysts opinions of FB vs. the long term survival of FB ---- Of course they will argue that you can't have the latter w/o the former, but I think that's just because they have too many "business" minds at the wheel.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto!

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day

I concur... There used to be a time when Slashdot was both.

Re:Microsoft of social networking?

[couchslug]

"Pick up a hobby that blends well with a social component. Homebrewing beer, for example."

Or meth cook. You'll have LOTS of new friends.

No wonder shares are dropping

[dejanc]

Just how bubbly was it for Facebook to spend $1 billion on Instagram? Whether they wanted to destroy competition or whatever they wanted to do, this just makes no sense at all. I am sure people at Facebook know stuff that the general public doesn't, but this just seems like a ridiculous way to do business.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Theophany]

Yeah, which is weird because getting served with a class action lawsuit and an SEC investigation days after your IPO generally points to a company worth handing your money over to.

The company, by its own admission, is not convinced that they can monetise the mobile user experience, so for them to be wasting time, money and resources on flash in the pan shite like Instagram points to a company that isn't worth the paper its shares are printed on.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

The idea is probably to get the press talking about something else other than the IPO lawsuit (think this tactic will work for about two days)

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Rich0]

Just ask anybody who made a ton of money off of credit default swaps in 2007 - paper is worth whatever you can get somebody else to pay for it. I'd say that 80% of the "value" of the stock in most trendy companies is based on hype, and you can make a lot of money off of that hype if you're an insider.

If you come out with a new laptop everybody yawns. If you come out with a new tablet people invest money. If you come out with a new pink sleeve for an iPad your stock will soar. Investors are like a big stampede, and if you wave a red flag in the direction they're all running in you'll get lots of money.

The thing is, it doesn't matter how many people are screaming about how great an investment CDS's, or tulips, or whatever is. Eventually you run out of new money, and the whole thing has to stand on whatever real-world earnings it can find. If those aren't there, then the whole situation gets ugly fast, and everybody is screaming for a bailout because "nobody could have seen this coming."

I think K summed it up fairly well - a person is intelligent, but people are dumb.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[ericloewe]

It's absurd. While I have never (and am not planning to) used Instagram, I find the whole concept redundant, especially because if you must absolutely share your pictures, any decent smartphone OS will do that automatically, or at least with minimal fuss.

This reminds me of the .com bubble - worthless companies with no real products (social networking is not a tangible product capable of surviving something big) having their value inflated to absurd levels, with billion dollar transactions being thrown around.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

Shares dropped because it was overpriced, that simple. It had nothing to do with investors thinking Facebook is a bad investment. The price was just bad.

Look at it now. It bounced off $30 and had been going up ever since.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[N1AK]

It's absurd. While I have never (and am not planning to) used Instagram, I find the whole concept redundant

And what exactly does your own inability to find a use show? I've toyed with Instagram and still use it to upload some images to FB/Twitter etc; that doesn't prove much of anything. A lot of people use Instagram, they evidently have found something about the concept that isn't redundant.

Personally I see nothing worrying about Facebook doing this. They probably started devoping it before they acquired Instagram. Generally dev costs aren't that huge and this allows them to try different functionality/integrations on the two platforms while taking the best of each and incorporating it into the other.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[jo42]

seems like a ridiculous way to do business

This is what happens when a company is run by an in-experienced 20-something kid.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[TuringTest]

And this is the optimal most efficient possible solution that a free market creates, how again?

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[ericloewe]

True enough, but it boils down to this: How is that trivial (at least compared to other software that people would gladly pay a billion bucks for) service worth a billion dollars? You admitted that the dev costs aren't "that huge", so where does the value come from?

There is no basis for suing Facebook if they made their competitor independently, which wouldn't be difficult: some cropping, some filters, maybe some effects, uploading system, simple UI. So, again, why the billion dollars?

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think lumping all "trendy" companies in one basket is fair.
You can attribute whatever youd like to merely hype, but some have strong and growing revenue streams, others don't.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[NJRoadfan]

Too bad there aren't any actual paper shares.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Theophany]

You are mistaken.

http://allfacebook.com/files/2012/05/FacebookStockCertificate.jpg

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[V-similitude]

If you come out with a new laptop everybody yawns. If you come out with a new tablet people invest money. If you come out with a new pink sleeve for an iPad your stock will soar. Investors are like a big stampede, and if you wave a red flag in the direction they're all running in you'll get lots of money.

I hope you're not implying that Apple fits in that category of 80% overvalued "trendy" companies... AAPL's one of the cheapest stocks out there when you consider real earnings and real growth trends. People haven't invested in Apple because tablets are hypothetically cool, they've invested because tablets (well, iPads) are actually cool, as determined by the millions they've sold.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[drkstr1]

And this is the optimal most efficient possible solution that a free market creates, how again?

It's not. A free market economy would let these company fail, and allow a lower barrier of entry for competition. The free market truly shines when there is high liquidity and many participants. The current economic system we have favors the former, but not the later.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[NJRoadfan]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/22/technology/facebook-paper-stock-certificates/index.htm It was a last minute change.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

What free market are you referring to?

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[ceriphim]

It's absurd. While I have never (and am not planning to) used Instagram, I find the whole concept redundant, especially because if you must absolutely share your pictures, any decent smartphone OS will do that automatically, or at least with minimal fuss.

Ok, so you admit you've never used it, don't understand it, and declared it redundant based purely off of your perceptions. You then go on to unintentionally prove how clueless you are about its' function. Well played.

Let me help you out here: For me, Instagram is about sharing and viewing snapshots in my life and my friends' lives. It cuts out all the "sponsored tweet/story/ad" bullshit if FB and Twitter, leaving you with (mostly) all content and no filler. That's why my friends and I use it. This is a situation much like when you see an ad for a product you think is stupid or doesn't make sense - it probably isn't intended for you.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

they sell advertisement. your the product dude

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[PeanutButterBreath]

they sell advertisement. your the product dude

But I don't pay attention to their advertisements. My impression of advertising on FB is that it is 100% for wastes of money if not complete scams. The exceptions seem to be dating sites that remarkably poorly targeted (and if they were correctly targeted enough to get me to click on them, I suspect that they would fall into the scam category anyway).

So if FB's product is the opportunity to sell me things that I am more likely to buy based on their ability to better perceive my wants and interests, their product is crap.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of the .com bubble - worthless companies with no real products (social networking is not a tangible product capable of surviving something big) having their value inflated to absurd levels, with billion dollar transactions being thrown around.

Part of me thinks this is the people with real money having a laugh at our expense. Dropping a few billion dollars on Facebook's IPO is just their way of paying off a debt from last month's golf match.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Rich0]

The other issue I see is too many disinterested investors - tons of money in 401ks that is not closely monitored, or where the investors have little control over their investments. That leads to complacent boards and powerful CEOs. The CEO doesn't really care about company performance, as long as he can collect his bonus. If the company collapses the investors might lose out if they're not bailed out, but the CEO keeps his bonuses, as do all the other execs. That means that they have incentive to take lots of risks.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[ericloewe]

As I said, it's mostly a pretty interface for applying filters and uploading stuff. My N9 does that out of the box.

It is not worth a billion dollars. We could keep discussing Instagram's features and usage scenarios, but I think anyone will agree that it is not worth that much money.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Theophany]

Ah, mea culpa. I guess the shares aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on then!

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

Just ask anybody who made a ton of money off of credit default swaps in 2007 - paper is worth whatever you can get somebody else to pay for it.

It's really a game of hot potato... you pass that potato around and you lose if you're the one holding it when the music stops.

Similar to how some operated within the real estate world from 2003 to 2008 or so. I had a friend who quit their day job to become a real estate investor. Had bought a house back in 2002, worked on it part time while living in it and flipped it in 2003 making about $100K. He was hooked, bought two in 2003, when he got up to owning three he quit his day job to focus on that. Around 2009 he was left holding the bag with I believe 3 houses--but he was "smart" in that he would not put equity into what he bought, they were bought with near 100% financing and often construction loans. He had formed a company sometime in 2005 to do the actual buying and assume the risks, he had a track record of "success", so obtaining funding before end of 2008 was not a big issue. In 2009 he ended up folding the company and walked with his profits over the previous 5 years, which he claims worked out to about $120K/yr. The banks were left holding the hot potatoes, which coincidentally were about 3 houses collectively financed for about $1.8M with a then value of about $1.1M. That $700K in losses the bank took almost directly correlates to what he ended up taking out over those years as his salary.

Right now you've got a few types at Facebook
1) Those who actually love it and believe in it
2) Those who are rich and are looking to cash out with as much as possible
3) Those that are working to become #2's

They require a critical mass of #1's otherwise they are destined for failure. M.Z. is absolutely an accidental billionaire--he is fortunate to have found a mix of #1 & #2's willing to build it up, but now the trouble is whether the #2 and #3 will sink the ship.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Anonymous Coward]

It was stock not cash. Helped with IPO eval..etc.

Re:No wonder shares are dropping

[Rich0]

Yup. It seems that much of the secret to wealth these days is to convince somebody who already has it to invest, take big risks, and ensure that you get a disproportionate share of gains compared to losses. Usually that means a small percentage of gains, and no share of losses.

Re:I am I the only one who read that as "Dick Shoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on! I thought that was funny...

Patents

[Teun]

They (FB) must have felt it was cheaper to buy the whole company then to litigate about stupid patents and copy rights.

Re:Patents

[hantms]

They (FB) must have felt it was cheaper to buy the whole company then to litigate about stupid patents and copy rights.

One billion buys a lot of litigation.. And besides, Instagram wouldn't be the only company in the world with any patents related to messing with saturation and hue of a digital image.

Re:Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

They (FB) must have felt it was cheaper to buy the whole company then to litigate about stupid patents and copy rights.

Um... so they reduced the field of potential litigants by one small company that hasn't been around long enough to build up much of a patent portfolio and doesn't have any particular history of litigating?

Re:Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

more likely they bought the brand name, which once popular is something irreplaceable.

the other thing, i never considered which was pointed out the other day--it was purchased with stock---which helps(ed) solidify the illusion that others felt their stock was priced fairly. Example. If you sell your company for 1 BEELION dollars in stock (which is overpriced by 10x) and you are content with 100 million... anything extra you get when you are able to cash int he stock is gravy. BUT to the outsideer, they see that someone else thought the stock was worth a PE ratio of 100.

Re:Patents

[nine-times]

Or they wanted the user base more than they wanted the app itself.

By buying Instagram, they can now choose to port the stuff they like about their own app over to Instagram, or port the stuff they like about Instagram over to their own app. But the bigger win is probably that now everyone using Instagram will be moved over to keeping all of that information in their Facebook profile instead. I still don't know whether that's worth it, since I have a hard time imagining how Facebook makes enough money to be able to buy Instagram for $1 billion.

"working on this application long before"

[game kid]

Facebook Camera is set up very similarly to Instagram and includes most of the same features (including photo filters), but Dirk Stoop, Facebook's product manager for photos, said Facebook was working on this application long before the Instagram acquisition on April 9.

Read that as "We shackled our own workers to the desk, but none of them could figure out how to make something that could share and filter images like that so we kept giving those geniuses offers until they buckled. They also got kinda pissed after the 8-or-9th offer and started throwing goldfish, tomatoes, and smelly socks at us, but our combination bodyguard/repo-men dealt with that little threat in a Facebook Timeline minute."

Stick a fork in it

[arcite]

This Social network fad is done. Yoked of innovation, on the path to mediocrity and disdain.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[gatzke]

My FB feed seems to be going that way. I don't know if people are dropping it, friends are blocking me, I am just losing interest, or FB is editing posts out with some algorithm. It is just not that interesting anymore.

Email took off and stayed established because it was an open interface and anyone could set up a server.

IM did well, but there were issues on the server side. At least you could write your own client. Later clients would handle a variety of servers.

I think twitter clients are fairly open, but you are still stuck with a limited server.

Where is social media going? G+ is a ghostland. I think twitter is too rapid/technically limited for a lot of people. There has to be a way to get decent interoperability for folks.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Anonymous Coward]

facebook lost a lot of value to many people when adults and teens started joining. facebook has its roots in the college culture and was at its most powerful when the majority of users were college users and there was a "2 networks policy" and your college email needed to be verified when you joined. i loved reading posts like "man you were so wasted last night, wtf happened when u left the bar?" or "what the hell was that in math 235 today?", it was such a cool way to meet new people, and the atmosphere was so dynamic and personal because there was a chance you would meet these people in real life, not static and impersonal like it is now, dealing with randoms who arent even on the same continent as you and who you dont care about. now the website unites people only by marketing, as if me and some other person "share a relationship" because we "like the same product".

posting on someones wall was on par with sms in terms of speed because everyone was checking. and even if you never spoke to that person again, the interaction was worth it. and i havent even started talked about the pictures! oh man those were some memories. facebook really improved my college experience overall and im glad it existed then, it was an invaluable tool.

now there are no networks, no personal experience, and there are 40 year old moms bitching about their "privacy online" and "can i hide my age?". college users are "just another demographc", a small signal within massive massive noise. it expanded and expanded, now its too generalized and bland, appeasing the lowest denominator rather than a specific demographic. all the while marketing wins.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[sourcerror]

Isn't this social media thing just a different name for web 2.0?

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Email took off and stayed established because it was an open interface and anyone could set up a server.

No. Email took off because it was *useful*. Even closed source email tools such as Exchange have success for the same reason.

Facebook on the other hand is not useful. It may be fun (to each his own), addictive, a great time waster, but it's not essential. I've had friends - real friends - with whom I've exchanged messages way before FB even existed, through email, Fidonet before that, and *gasp* telephone and hamradio before that.

You can do without FB, and ultimately this will be FB's undoing: either people will move on to some other nonessential such service to get their kicks, or they'll waste their free time on something else if Zuckerberg tries a little too hard to squeeze money out of them.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[whisper_jeff]

This Social network fad is done.

Except that's not remotely true. Facebook may fade away (eventually) but some form of social network or another will take its place. The internet has been one form of social network or another from the very beginning. I remember in the early days logging into a BBS waaaaay back in the day. What was that? It was basically the internet _and_ a social network in one. Then when I got the real thing, there were use groups and various forums. Again, social networks. And then came things like MySpace and social networks took on a whole new meaning. And MySpace faltered and faded and was replaced by Facebook. And odds are that Facebook will stumble at some point and be replaced by something else but social networks are not done. They've been here from the very beginning and they will be here when the entire internet is closed down and the lights get turned off.

Not a fad. Not done.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[jareth-0205]

Facebook on the other hand is not useful.

Balls. Facebook is useful, it's just not *as useful or essential* as the media hype has made out.

It's great for keeping in touch with distant friends (and that is a valid form of friendship, despite what some people on /. seem to claim that friendships are a binary go-out-for-a-beer-or-you're-dead-to-me), organsing events/parties whatever, publicising trivial stuff, whatever.

It won't go away, but it probably won't change the world (any more).

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I remember in the early days logging into a BBS waaaaay back in the day. What was that? It was basically the internet _and_ a social network in one.

Ahh, animated ASCII art pr0n over modem. Only 4 users could jerk off at any one time. Those were the days...

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> Yoked of innovation

So you say, but the next big thing is just around the corner. It's called Social IRL. Right now there's a whole industry building out places to meet and socialize in meat-space (mostly food and drink based forums). Those on the cutting edge are just getting involved in this technology, but soon it will be the biggest social networking innovation ever! Social IRL - the next, next thing.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's web 3.1 for workgroups

Re:Stick a fork in it

[orthancstone]

Facebook is useful, it's just not *as useful or essential* as the media hype has made out.

There are a few game creators that would argue over the essential portion of that argument. And it's worth remembering how much money those games have made to date in addition to how much time people play them.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[pongo000]

It's great for keeping in touch with distant friends

Unless you have "distant friends" you'd rather not have find you. I don't know about your history, but there are several people in mine I simply don't want showing up in my life. Hence, no FB.

No great loss....I don't consider someone who I once knew 25 years ago a "friend." In fact, FB has served to bastardize the word "friend" into something alien that isn't even close to the original definition. So sad.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Aranykai]

Must like the word bastard, but that didn't stop you.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[dskzero]

I miss the BBS era. People were expected to post valuable content about the subjects at hand and not just randomly go to clubs and having such a great time that they spent all night taking photos to post them online. You know, back then, I actually thought that spending time in forums was productive. Nowadays it's literally the way I have to waste time.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[gatzke]

Maybe the anti-social introverts of the slashdot crowd are not the typical audience for facebook. For a lot of people, we don't mind having folks we knew 25 years ago in our friend list.

I have people in my list that I knew very well in elementary and pre-school. We drifted apart in middle school / high school but there is no reason I can't still call them a friend. Seeing a small tidbit of their life does not take much of my time and when we do meet again we are already somewhat caught up and have some reference to each other. These are folks I would not call or email, but would talk to and catch up with if I saw them at a bar or event.

Same goes for former college buddies. I have a few that I would email / call periodically, but a good many that facebook is plenty. But it also facilitates things like reunions.

Same for my students. Now I see students cycle through every few years. I knew them but we were never best buds. But it doesn't hurt anyone to see their facebook feed and know what they are up to.

Most people enjoy / appreciate that level of social interaction. Maybe that is why they were able to grow their user base and make millions and billions. Not just for farmville and privacy invasions.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[iampiti]

You can actually reject (they actually don't see a rejection, just don't see the friendship approval) friendship requests.
Yeah, some might feel it to be a bit rude but if you really don't want those people in your life I guess you can reject them fine on Facebook.
Anyway, Facebook really needs better privacy options but that's another completely different topic ...

Re:Stick a fork in it

[PeanutButterBreath]

It's great for keeping in touch with distant friends

Unless you have "distant friends" you'd rather not have find you.

Quite often, distance is not a coincidence.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[ColdWetDog]

This Social network fad is done. Yoked of innovation, on the path to mediocrity and disdain.

That's it. I'm buying a ton of FB stock. Every damned time Slashdot disses something, it turns out to be a hit with the rest of the world.

"No wireless, less space than a Nomad. Lame."

Re:Stick a fork in it

[istvaan]

There were a handful of BBSes in the Pittsburgh area that I would regularly frequent, and goodness do I sometimes miss them.
We had one, "Data's Exchange" it was called, running WWIV and using two modems. Made Trade Wars pretty interesting.
But we always knew how many subscribers there were, and that only so and so many could be on at a time.
I think that fact, the dearth of time, made it so that our conversations in the message boards were poignant and well-written.
Discussions were quite often heated, to be sure, but I like to think that they were of a higher quality than a lot of the things one can find on the net these days.
Time was limited, so you had to say what you had to say in a concise and clear manner.
Ah, the old days. Haha. :)

Re:Stick a fork in it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid you're missing the point.
Multi-billion companies coming out of your favorite BBS? Zero. And dead by now.
Multi-billion companies strated as user-group-slash-forum? Zero. And certainly dead (as a "fad") by now.
MySpace? A nearly-a-billion company in its own right, now you couldn't give it away for free and a toaster. Still limping along waiting for a grace shot, but totally over.
Facebook? The first multi-billion company of the social networking "fad". IF their stock had risen like foam and started a buying frenzy, social networking could have been a longer-lasting fad (and if Facebook was / had come up with an actual product people were willing to pay for, then it would have proven to be "for realz"), but the last week has shown that ship had absolutely no wind on its sails.
Sure, people will always use stuff to "share" in excruciating detail the irrelevant minutia of their amazingly boring lives, but that's not why social networking as an interesting phenomenon is done. It's simply because the mega-star of that domain was given a golden opportunity to deliver on its promise and it stumbled and fell in an incredibly short amount of time. Wanna guess for how much is going to IPO the next social-network-only/social-network-centered, 100%-hype-and-nothing-else-to-show for-it "business"?

Re:Stick a fork in it

[longk]

Us Dutchies used to have CU2.nl for that. Then we moved to Hyves.net, which sold for millions, then we moved on to Facebook. Something will be next. Facebook has already changed from something hip to something ordinary, the next step will for it to be more boring than TheNewThing.

Re:Stick a fork in it

[longk]

Not a fad and not done indeed. Facebook is really quite a poor implementation of a social network when you compare it to offline social networking. Something better will surely come along.

Re:This is what happens

[Anonymous Coward]

You think he is a savant? LOL

Idiot, maybe. Savant, no way.

You think it's hard to create a website like Facebook? You must be SMRT!

Old news

[BriGal]

"and it's currently only available for iPhone and iPod Touch owners". Right. This was part of the FB app update for the droid 2 weeks ago. I got so confused when I first read this story yesterday because I knew I'd had it for awhile.

Visionary

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but this just shows how fast FB is going to tank. A billion dollars for something that they were already developing.......clever. Obviously someone felt that this was a threat to the "release" of their own version, planned right after IPO (coincidence.....lol). So there ya have it, now we'll see if investors catch on, that FB is being managed like a circus.

No or few cultivated forms of social engagement

[Qbertino]

For instance, you might have the whole "going to dinner parties with the wife" thing in order to maintain a social norm. Meanwhile, you'd rather be in your garage tinkering with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino or something in your garage and making an anti-squirrel turret for your backyard.

As I'm getting older I'm realizing more and more that the hobbies I find intellectually satisfying are rarely something that can be plugged into a social component. As good (and intelligent) as my friends are, most of them wouldn't want to spend an afternoon learning something interesting in Perl or building a robot for the fuck of it. We go out for drinks or to a diner or something like that. I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day.

-----------

When socialising becomes boring, just as you describe - I can relate to that, btw. - it's because today people rarely have any time or interest in cultivating social forms of engagement. It's still a relatively thin wholy educated layer of demografic that does these things, if at all.
If you want something stimulating to do that you do with other people it would be making music together, singing in a choir, staging a play or something like that.

4.5 years ago I discovered Tango dancing. And while I actually do have a diploma in performing arts and did that professionally in the 90ies (although not for a living really, you can't live off that), I never would have thought that I'd be doing that. I basically discovered Tango by accident, because a friend of mine asked me to come with her as her partner. Since then it's been like a drug. I go out 3 or more times a week at times and it only takes a little nudge to overcome the notion of just staying at my desk and doing a little programming or something.

Seriously, once you find a social activity that is stimulating beyond sitting together and chatting and getting slightly drunk, you're heading the right way. You can't dance while drunk, and you wouldn't want to, because you're having a ball (quite litterally at times :-) ) giving the ladies and girls a good time and improving your dancing skills. Just Tuesday I came back from Heidelberg with my feet hurting from dancing to much again. With a ladies/guy ratio like that (note the background), a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do, ... I guess. :-)))

Bottom line: Find a higher cultivated social activity than drinking and clubbing, such as the above mentioned, and going social won't be so one dimensional anymore. A few years ago it was Aikido for me, but since I've discovered Tango, I think I've found my contrast programm for the rest of my life.

My 2 cents.

Re:No or few cultivated forms of social engagement

[outofluck70]

Don't be so modest, your English is better than just about any American's I know. The only tip off to you being across the pond was "socialising" which I believe is spelled correctly for Europeans. Not sure about "demografic" though, it's demographic in the USA. Also we usually spell the "90ies" as 90's Otherwise, you've fully embarrassed my writing abilities, well done! :)

Re:No or few cultivated forms of social engagement

[quacking duck]

Glad I'm not the only geek guy who discovered dancing as a great social activity. For me it was salsa and more recently blues and swing. All are great for being around and interacting with women, and without a whole lot of talking either (while dancing anyway--I'm still working on follow-up *after* a dance...).

And although I'd have a panic attack doing public speaking and am still anxious talking one-on-one (really great during a date [rolleyes]), I realized recently don't have (much of) a problem partner dancing, by ourselves, in front of dozens of people. Hell, the first warm day this year, we even took it outside onto a downtown sidewalk.

All this in turn is somewhat helping to get over social anxiety and self-confidence issues in general, as it finally starts sinking in that I *am* good at something social, and even *better* than all the poor schmucks sitting at the tables just watching women dance, instead of dancing with them.

Re:No or few cultivated forms of social engagement

[Anonymous Coward]

Also we usually spell the "90ies" as 90's

It really should be "90s". It's a plural, not a possessive. The New York Times once used an apostrophe, but it has disappeared over the last several years.

Re:No or few cultivated forms of social engagement

[Anonymous Coward]

With a ladies/guy ratio like that (note the background) [ytimg.com], a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do

Not to mention that, in America anyway, out of all the men at an event like that at least 50% of the single ones will homosexual... so your odds are even slightly better than simply the split along gender lines.

My ex-GF of my many years was a dance minor in college, she loved it but as you say, can't make a living. I would willingly go to these things because I knew she loved it but I was absolutely horrible, even with lessons... at some point she started bring a girlfriend along as well (this was more latin dance then ballroom) because she felt like it took the pressure off me, then somehow that turned into "I'm going out with the girls" and at some point I just sort of dropped off the invite list :) ... that wasn't what ended the relationship at all, in fact she seemed to be fine with that piece, but it's worth pointing out that even if you _really want it to work_ you might still be terrible at it like I was...

This will make stock markets more confident

[roger_pasky]

Invest your money safely on Facebook so we can waste one more billion, or two ;-)

Soooo....

[Arancaytar]

... they spent a billion dollars on something they already had.

Re:Soooo....

[idbeholda]

That might be what they're saying, but that's probably not what actually transpired. Therein lies the difference.

ahahahahhah

[Anonymous Coward]

what a bunch of .... just amazing this can even be happening.....

Re:This is what happens

[Anonymous Coward]

You think he is a savant? LOL

Yep, he's a savant at suckering people. He even got people to pay $100 billion in his stocks to then have them lose 30% in only a matter of days. Suckerberg is a genius.

More like Edison of social networking

[jkrise]

They discovered a billion dollars worth of junk that doesn't work on all platforms.

Re:This is what happens

[superwiz]

He is neither an idiot nor a savant. He is a prop.... hoodie and all. He has a budget of X million a year to make himself loud and stay in the news. He may have blown that budget with instagram though. He is about as much a CEO as rappers are gangsters.

HUH?

[Lumpy]

It was pushed to Android phones over a week ago with the last app update.

I tried it twice and deleted it as it sucked.

Re:I am I the only one who read that as "Dick Shoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute, no I didn't. Carry on.

They DID NOT buy it for $1 billion

[Anonymous Coward]

They bought it for mostly Facebook shares, which they CLAIMED were valued at $1billion. That was the whole point of that exercise, create a false third party confirmation of Facebook's share valuation!

It had nothing to do with Instagram's products or services, it was entirely about pumping a fake valuation of Facebook shares. A simply Pump-And-Dump.

It could have been ANY company prepared to cooperate in this that plausibly had a product with any product, overlapping or not.

Re:They DID NOT buy it for $1 billion

[Anonymous Coward]

What an odd day. The only person who seems to understand what the heck happened is an AC.

--wmbetts

Posting AC, because I'm modding the story.

Not really a clone.

[Anonymous Coward]

Since they acquired it, it's more of a rebrand.

man-kids

[luis_a_espinal]

4.5 years ago I discovered Tango dancing.

Wow.

That's one of the gayest things I've read in slashdot in a while.

Say what you want, this is the best venue for dating, a zillion times better than clubbing and getting hammered. Plus, on average, people engaged in trained dancing activities tend to have a higher level of education and income than the crowd engaged in clubbing and getting hammered. For me it was Salsa dancing. Dated a lot; have a lot fun; met more engineers that I could socialize with that way than at work; and where I met my wife.

Kids and man-kids will call it ghey. Men see it for what it is, a social activity.

Re:man-kids

[Pebby]

Just for a bit of fair perspective - clubbing and dancing wound up being my 'higher' social hobby. When I turned 21, I immediately started going out dancing at clubs, since they played the music I like. Eventually I became a DJ, and, while I don't drink while I'm at clubs, I would still not write off clubs as bad places to explore your hobbies and have fun.

I would guess the average intelligence of plenty of my crowds are lower than a Salsa group, but, trust me, there are _tons_ of engineers/programmers who love dancing and (80's/goth/alternative - i.e. not hip-hop) music: I've met several folks from Apple, an entrepeneur from Yahoo, etc.

Whatever it is, the key point to remember is that socializing with mutual intellectual/emotional/physical interests will always be more valuable than forced, normalized socializing. :)

Re:man-kids

[thegarbz]

This!

I did dancing at highschool. I went to an all-boys school. I was called gay more times than I could remember. I once called a bunch of jocks out on it. I went up and let them know that every Wednesday afternoon a bus from another school arrived full of big sweaty boys and they spend the afternoon grabbing each other's balls and smelling each other's sweaty but cracks while playing rugby.
Every Wednesday afternoon 2 bus loads of girls from the local all-girls school arrived, and we were instructed to hold these girls very close for about 2 hours.

Should have kept my mouth shut. Dancing class enrolments doubled the following week.

Re:man-kids

[Anonymous Coward]

Not "gay" as in homosexual; "gay" as in prissy and effeminate and totally faaaaaabulous! Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's a reason why the background is all women (some of them slightly man-shaped and bearded). It's probably a great way to meet women who will treat you as an equal (i.e. another woman).

Re:man-kids

[Anonymous Coward]

Pebby,

I'd just like you to know that if I meet you at a dance club, I will identify myself as a NASA rocket scientist... or at least I would have back when they had those... now I'll come up with a fake european sounding name and claim to be one of the guys who netted $800M off the FB IPO and didn't make it to the billionaires-under-30 list.

Thx

Re:man-kids

[couchslug]

Dancing is very hetero, and a great way to get laid.

If you have no confidence, then avoid it but don't talk smack.

Anti-competitive?

[Cutting_Crew]

Should companies be allowed to buy up other companies for the sheer purpose of removing competition from its current or upcoming competition? It's one thing to do it once but what about 50 times until there is nothing left to buy and you are the only game in town??

Beer

[Sloppy]

As I'm getting older I'm realizing more and more that the hobbies I find intellectually satisfying are rarely something that can be plugged into a social component.
..

I'm finding that I have to divorce "intellectually stimulating" from "social interaction" more and more every day.

You're already half way to finding the exception, when you go out for drinks. Ever thought of making the drinks? Brewing is social and (somewhat) nerdy. Ok, it's not going to be as intellectually stimulating as programming (what ever could be?) but don't knock it.

Hey, Facebook / Instagram!

[Y-Crate]

Once upon a time... about three months ago.... a Facebook user would press the "Share on Facebook" button in Instagram, and the selected photo would be uploaded to their "Instagram Photos" album.

"$USER has uploaded $NUMBER of photos to the album Instagram Photos" would appear on their timeline or wall, along with a collage of thumbnails. Comments and likes associated with the wall post were attached to the photo itself.

Now, the same action produces a completely different result that is a UI disaster. The post on a user's wall - and the comment thread and likes that go with it - are completely disconnected from the photo itself. If you click through to the photo, you find the comments are missing, they are attached to the action of uploading, not the photo.

Clicking-through to the full-sized photo presents an entirely separate comment thread. A user scrolling through photos in an album won't find the bulk of interactions associated with it.

Furthermore, each individual photo is now a separate, and huge wall post. A few photos pushes all other content off the page.

On top of all this, sharing a photo to Facebook at any time after it is shared to Instagram dumps the photo into the the entirely separate "Wall Photos" album. Because that makes sense.

Re:Yawn

[fbobraga]

"Flamebait"? Why?

Have I gone back in time....?

[g7a]

This appeared on my android device a good few weeks ago now right next to my handsets "camera" icon in the app draw. I even remember thinking to myself "oh for facebooks sake, thats confusing!" a few day's later the thing changed and a little facebook "F" icon appeared like an icon overlay on the main icon

Profiling...miss!

[Anonymous Coward]

Lousy attempt at supposedly profiling the other lad.

whilst true that "socialising" is spelt wit a "z" in the US, demographic is spelt just the same. Bear in mind that US english is the egg, in a world where the chicken came first

and spelling of 90's / 90ies?!!!

truly out of it