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Are Porn and Video Games Ruining a Generation?
silentbrad writes "An editorial published at CNN is titled 'The Demise of Guys: How Videogames and Porn are Ruining a Generation.' It makes the sensationalized case that not only do game addiction and porn addiction share similar characteristics, but they're also both damaging to young men, destroying their ability to connect with women, and therefore threatening the future of our entire species. A response by IGN dissects the idea that pornography and videogames are pretty much the same thing. 'The article, by psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo and Nikita Duncan argues that young men are "hooked on arousal, sacrificing their schoolwork and relationships in the pursuit of getting a tech-based buzz."' Zimbardo, has danced this jig before. At the Long Beach TED conference last year he told a delighted audience that "guys are wiping out socially with girls and sexually with women." He added that young men have been so zombiefied by games and porn that they are unable to function in basic human interactions. "It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."'"
Why is it that every psychologist I've ever met was much crazier than their patients?
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
This is totally untrue. I can easily falsify by point out that it it WERE true that Slashdot would be filled with socially awkward men who don't know how to talk to women and live in their parents' basement.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
The Porn Video Games. we have not had any good ones for over a decade! And Duke Nukem Forever was not porn unless you are a right wing extremist.
Us zombies demand good porn video games! And PLEASE have it voiced by Ron Jeremey!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's just like that horrid rock and roll music, it's ruining the entire generation
Stay at home and play video games and then beat off to porn, or go out in public and get my wallet drained by a woman who has only contempt for me. Tough choice.
No.
What makes a good relationship is a fucked up question.
You can answer what made the relationship between person x and person y work, but only the past tense. You won't know until it happens.
Some say that sex ruins relationships. When my wife and I met we were only concerned with one thing, sex. We have been together for 15 years with only one short separation and sex is still a cornerstone of our relationship.
You could just as easily argue that women who look at cute catpics and stupid youtube cats/dogs/makeup videos are also becoming "socially inept". Why is it always the "guy side" that is "doing it wrong"? --------------
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
Social exclusion is widely employed by American culture and is meant to be a punishment, but video games and porn, among other things, route around that. Authoritarians are now angry that the punishment no longer works.
I come from an older generation and I've been socially awkward since long before I had easy access to games and porn.
This is the same Philip Zimbardo who is infamous for the Stamford Experiment in which he placed university students into a jailhouse environment and allowed it to descend into chaos. Whilst it could be argued he's at the top of his field it could equally be argued that he's an idiot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zimbardo)
Has the dismantling of our patriarchal society has something to do with it? Maybe young men are 'checking out', be it games, porn, drugs whatever.....
love is just extroverted narcissism
Does it matter to me if the weak male class doesn't have kids? Hell no -- and they make good employees, too. Maybe better ones.
I dunno. They both have their encumbrances. Daddy says "Sorry, can't work late, gotta watch Junior." Non-daddy says "Sorry, can't work late, gotta raid."
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
while we are at no risk of extinction (from social awkwardness anyway), and while there are plenty of well-adjusted guys playing porn and watching video games (or maybe its the other way around), there is a lot more truth to the story than many here would like to admit.
playing video games and watching porn IS a much easier and more fulfilling way to spend your time than getting shot down by girls from school. boys ARE socializing less and withdrawing more.
when i have kids, i can guarantee you that the amount of time they spend playing video games or surfing the web will be very closely watched. and they damn well won't have either of those things in their bedroom.
i don't think that porn or video games are inherently unhealthy, but i do think that they are potentially addictive in the same way that many other things are - things I would want to keep tabs on my child's access to and use of.
Just because someone did something famous some decades ago doesn't mean all their pronouncements in an op-ed count as science. It's an interesting hypothesis, but note the distinct lack of peer-reviewed papers mentioned in the article on the subject (the article mentions some peer-reviewed papers in vaguely related areas, like the big debate over violence in videogames, but nothing on this new hypothesis). It could turn out to have some truth to it; could turn out not to. It will probably turn out to be more complex than this op-ed indicates, in any case.
In short, wait for actual science. Until then it's just some speculation.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
...destroying their ability to connect with women, and therefore threatening the future of our entire species.
For 20,000 years, men have been busy beating each other and other animals to a pulp, engaging in risky behaviors, being generally anti-social, and treating women like dirt. If they're playing video games and watching porn instead of those things, I think we're going to be just fine, thanks.
And as for being unable to connect with women, they haven't been able to do that since we crawled down from the trees. Somehow, dick still manages to meet vagina. People will keep having sex no matter how bad it is, because bad sex is worse than no sex... and really, if you're going to be a straight woman, once you've weaned yourself off Disney propaganda, your standards drop dramatically. Look at how many of us married fat dudes who beach themselves on couches.
The human species is in no danger of going extinct... despite yearly predictions of the end of the world. Which is disappointing really... it means I'll probably have to pay back my student loans. -_-
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I ditched my G/F, bought a second flat panel, and can play Diablo III while watching pr0n at the same. What's the problem again?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
If you want your old-timey exhortation to have the true flavor, you'd use "Onanistic" instead of "masturbational". The latter word wasn't spoken by polite society, while the former is both Biblical and very popular in the actual anti-masturbation propaganda of the time you're hearkening back to.
Very good parody other than that, though. I hope.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Have gnu, will travel.
I wipe generations off of my stomach every day!
Let's see.
Social interaction with a woman in the work place can end in a career ending sexual harrassment accusation when you have a falling out and she decides to exact retribution.
Social interaction with a woman on a date leading to a sexual encounter the woman regrets after can end in a life ending rape charge.
Social interaction with a women leading to marriage and children ends in a divorce which results in your ex wife taking the house and a slice of your possesions and wealth, and leaves you with an extended obligation to support her with alimony and child support while she lives with the next guy, conveniently avoiding remarriage to leave you on the hook for as long as possible. Though child support is a legitimate obligation if you willingly and knowingly fathered them.
I seriously doubt social interaction between the sexes has ever been great. Most guys were/are just jumping through a lot of painful socially mandated hoops to satify their sexual needs.
At least its less bad now than it used to be when the societal norm was you had to marry someone for LIFE, the sex stopped being good about a week after the honeymoon and there then followed 60 years of ball and chain misery.
Of course, that model was traded for one where women have acquired a nearly completely dominant position legally, socially and in the work place, which has resulted in a situation where is probably better for men in the long run, especially financially, to avoid relationships with women all together, hence the preference for games and porn.
Unemployment and wage stagnation are ruining a generation.
. . . and before that, they were ruined by Jazz music . . . and in the 60's by LSD . . . marijuana in the 70's . . . cocaine in the 80's . . . Grunge music in the 90's . . . the Internet in the 00's . . .
Basically, anything a generation is doing for fun, is ruining them.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The article starts with the faulty premise that connecting with women is a requirement.
If a women isn't dependent on a man (thanks to increasingly equal (and in some cases exceeding) employment/opportunity/education, sperm banks, etc) for the things she desires in life, why isn't it fair game for a man to not need a women for what he desires?
I love my wife, happily married with 2 kids and I'm not a mascu-nazi, but I look at my parents generation with their greater than 50% divorce rate (with largely 1-sided devastation of the husband) and constant bombardment of the whole 'demeaning men to empower women' approach [seriously, just about any commercial in the last 40 years - the man is the moron who couldn't function w/o the woman], why would anyone want that short of being conditioned to accepting it?
Hoo boy, where to start? First some disclosure -- I have both a 20-something son and daughter. Both have suffered heartaches much as I did. Neither has an easy time of it.
TFA makes the major assumption that things are worse now than earlier. I would like some proof. Yes, marriage and childbirth are being delayed, but I'm far from convinced this is a bad thing. Child rearing has been improved and battery reduced.
Second, this is all been laid at the feet of the young men. Yes, our species does seem to both require activity from the males and passivity from the females. But society has become much more complex, with many more choices in activities. SSmall wonder young men don't get it right. I have to remind my daughter that her beaux cannot read her mind, and need appropriate signs of encouragement. N ot things she thinks are encouragement, but things _they_ will interpret as such.
Finally, if it actually is that things are worse, why should it be that vidgames/pr0n are to blame? Handy whipping boi's? This gets into the vent or foment debate. But sidestepping it, consider something else: half of all young people grew up in split/divorced households. Might this not make them more than a bit leery ? The staggaring increase in divorce 1970-1990 is squarely on my generation's shoulders.
I still think we have not the foggiest clue of what technological contraception does to a society long-term. It changes attitudes towards children and many other things. We are still discovering, and won't even approach normality for another 100+ years.
Perhaps its the women who should be watching more porn and playing more video games. Just sayin.
"It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."
At least for me, this is the case, but video games and porn had NOTHING to do with it.
At the age of four I was using DOS commands better than my dad who used them at work all the time. I performed my first paid computer repair at the age of eleven, having read "Windows 95 for Dummies" cover to cover the year before. Computers and computer concepts came naturally to me, though admittedly I can't code to save my life. I did have a similar experience when it came to video editing and DJing, both of which I do on the side and make a decent chunk of change in the process. These things came naturally to me to the point where I never really had to think about what I wanted to do for a living. I knew from an extremely young age my career would involve computers and music; I never had to take one of those "what do you want to be when you grow up" tests in high school. I'd known for years.
Social graces were as foreign to me. When I explain this to people, many of them look at me sideways and can't fathom the concept that for some people, social interactions would be a learned skill, just like computers are to them. What's ironic is that when you ask them, "so what would you recommend I say to this girl, given $SITUATION", they have to stop and think about it, too. To many, it is instinct. To people like myself, it took very explicit 'study' and 'tutoring', the latter coming from several female friends over the years who have spent a lot of time and effort getting me to the point where I can mostly hold a conversation with a stranger, even the good looking ones, and not make things totally awkward.
Without those people in my life, I may or may not have learned how to socially interact effectively. What if I had not? Every social engagement would conjure up all the excitement of a Calculus exam, because it'd be guaranteed that I'd stand in a corner and be incapable of talking to anyone, utterly terrified that I'd end up talking about computers or DJ gear or NLE plug-ins - topics I know about, but are useless to basically anyone else I'd be talking to. It'd be a vicious cycle that I'd be terrified of saying or doing something stupid or awkward, then find myself actually doing so, only to reinforce my belief that it would happen next time, and find out that I was right yet again.
Compare that to video games. The rules are extremely well established; the viewer doesn't have to re-learn them each time they enter the game. They're set up so that if you fail, you can try again. You can lookup walkthroughs on Youtube or IGN. If the player fails, no one knows but themselves (unless they're playing multiplayer). They have conventions that are well understand. They can be played on the player's schedule and terms. The price is explicitly established up front (unless there is DLC, which again, is on the player's terms). The NPCs that aren't explicit enemies generally respect the player. Video games aren't played due to an expectation for life to emulate them. They are chosen because this inexhaustive list of attributes is in explicit contrast to real life.
Compare it to porn. The porn is chosen based on what the viewer desires to do at that time. It doesn't require an initial, elaborate attempt to seduce the individual in the scene. The viewer isn't competing with other people for the porn star's attention or affection, and there is absolutely no fear of rejection. Again, porn isn't watched as an expectation for life to emulate it. It's watched because life *doesn't* emulate it.
So, in summary, we are stating that individuals who frequently fail at particular tasks in real life choose environments where failure doesn't really happen. The study might correctly assume that guys who play video games and habitually watch porn are socially awkward, but the assumption that's inaccurately made is that such individuals preemptively chose it instead of attempting more conventional means of relationships, as opposed to video games and porn being the only outlet of acceptance due to a long history of failure and a dearth of alternative means to rectify social awkwardness.
playing video games and watching porn IS a much easier and more fulfilling way to spend your time than getting shot down by girls from school. boys ARE socializing less and withdrawing more.
Even if this is the case, what exactly is wrong with this? If the males in question are satisfied with the choices they've made, who cares?
I see two possible consequences if this alleged trend plays out. First, these men will reproduce less, and these tendencies will be bred out of the population. Or alternatively, females will become more accomodating to these tendencies, and being a smooth talker won't matter so much anymore. In either case, what's the problem?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Agreed. It's not the end of the world by any means, but as is often the case there's some truth in the middle, particularly for porn.
Futurama's Don't Date Robots gag wasn't entirely wrong. At the risk of reducing my gender to an object here, the impetus for men to enter into stable monogamist relationships with women is the companionship of and sex with a woman. Over time stronger long term emotional bonds develop, but in the short term the hook is what we can do to satisfy the seemingly bottomless well of male lust.
Porn changes that. I would like to think sex with a good woman is still better than doing it as a solo activity, but at the same time I know I can't compete with porn from a variety perspective (I can't be blonde, brunette, 18, a MILF, and asian all at the same time). And to be clear I do like a good (or dirty?) porno now and then myself - it's something I enjoy sharing with my fiancee - but it's something we can do together that strengthens our bond. I know he's also wanking it on the side (what man doesn't?) but at no point do I feel like he's avoiding the opportunity to have sex with me, in spite of the ups and downs of a relationship. But can a guy still have some kind sexual gratification without actually interacting with a woman? With the incredible amount of porn available these days (and increasingly complex toys), absolutely. And that's the issue.
At least from my perspective it's something that has already changed relationship dynamics. I've been fortune to meet a wonderful man that is my fiancee, but for many of my friends they have not been so lucky. We are all at an age where we should be settling down and forming those long term commitments, and while my friends are ready, the men they should be forming those commitments with are not. It's not that the men aren't there financially or even emotionally, but from the perspective of someone entering into one of those relationship, so many of the men simply don't see the need for a woman. They go do things together as guys while rarely interacting with the girls, and apparently that's all they ever need. And I absolutely think porn plays a part in that because their sexual needs are being met elsewhere.
Is porn bad? No, clearly not. But there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and I believe we've reached that point. As things stand we're going to end up with a lot of awkward middle-agers in a couple of decades, who will have never formed a long term relationship either because they shortchanged the original impetus to do so (men), or because there were no partners for them (women).
TL;DR: Porn not all bad, but too much porn means men never settle down with women because they don't need sex.
in some races good husbands are hard to find so women have more biracial babies
This is rather offensive... I've dated men of various races and plan to have biracial children with my SO, not because of any scarcity of "good men" leading me to "settle" but rather because race is not part of my criteria for love.
I love how it is always something wrong on the part of men, but that's the whole point when you get down to it.
Men are tired of women's crap.
Men are tired of American women in particular.
Men are tired of being told to "Act like a man" by women who don't want to "Act like a woman"
Men are tired of the atmosphere that has been created as of late.
Men are much more jaded by 25 because of women they've dated than ever before.
Men are tired of being treated as a pocketbook, resource, protector, etc.. and getting crapped on in return.
Men are tired of being expected to take on the dangerous jobs, longer hours, and more responsibility, but are screamed at for making more money.
Let's face it, most men don't want any part of it after a while.
Give me something to enjoy my time with, some food and let me blow my load on occasion, and my needs are generally met.
When the cost of dating a woman is more than a hooker, it's time to just get a hooker.
Video games don't nag, pester, whine and demand attention every 10 minutes.
Video games don't expect you to like all their friends, nor try to get to know all of your friends.
I don't have to buy porn dinner or take it to a movie before it'll put out.
Porn and video games don't have some irrational urge to talk about feelings and relationships every day.
Porn and video games don't start dropping hints after 6 months about moving in and/or getting married.
Simply put, again, many men are tired of women's crap, American women specifically.
There's a number of decent foreign women who know how to interact with a man while still being able to be themselves, and more guys are becoming aware of this and going for them, vs a bunch of spoiled, loud mouth, bossy, overly entitled, classless American bitches with nothing but bad attitudes.
Men may be the ones who are going for video games and porn, but women are the ones driving them to it.
Much like how these articles always seem to be written by women, or a woman leading around yet another spineless, pussy-whipped man giving a broken spirited 'Yes dear" after everything she says.
If your assessment is that men should want to settle down with women to gain access to sex then I say "screw you" and I think pron is a wonderful equalizer. I am opposed to this idea that women should have this advantage that they get to use in relationships. "You do what I want or you don't get sex." That's manipulative and thus something I feel is wrong. So if porn equalizes that, takes away than, then great.
In my opinion a relationship needs to be because you both want each other, for whatever reason(s). It needs to be a mutual thing that you connect on any number of levels. You settle down because of all that, not because women make it a requirement to have sex.
Sorry, but that's the other half of the equality equation.
That their real implication seems to be that if you aren't interested in getting married as soon as you have a stable job and fathering children, you are a reject. As though the primary purpose for men should be to provide money and genetic material for children. Nothing else matters. If a woman wishes to be a career woman and not do kids until later, or at all, that's great. If a man wants to do that he's defective.
I mean I'll take myself as an example: 31, unmarried, no kids. I own a house, have a salaried job above the median income, with a pension, and in general I'm pleased with my life. I'm certainly no "burden on society" or anything. However, since I spend my time playing video games instead of watching TV (average male watches 4.1 hours a day averaged over a week, average female 4.8 hours, I watch about 0.3 hours per day) and I am not a father, people like this journalist see me as a problem. I'm not busy propagating the species so clearly I'm a loser.
No, sorry, I don't see it that way. In fact the way I see it, we have too many people. Population growth needs to level off if we are to have a sustainable future. I don't want to see that through draconian population control measures, I'd rather see it through people self regulating. Well, I dislike kids, have ever since I was a kid, I always got along with adults better. So I don't wish to have any. However others wish to have more than two kids for a family. Works out.
I will acknowledge a problem if they can show that males are dropping out of society as a whole, as in not getting jobs, living at home, doing nothing with their lives, more with video games and/or porn as opposed to more traditional problems around that (like drugs) but that's it. If they can't show me that, and I suspect they can't, then I fail to see the problem. Video games being used in place of TV as entertainment isn't a problem, and not wanting to have a family isn't a problem (I'd argue it is a good thing for some people to feel that way).
If I'm going to be labeled as "defective" or "dysfunctional" for wanting a good life, but without kids, then fine, I'll own that label because I'm happy with who I am. If it means I never get married, I'm ok with that too. I'd love to find a woman who wants to be with someone like me, but I'm not interested or ok with trying to force a woman who wants children in to a childless relationship.