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Are Porn and Video Games Ruining a Generation?
silentbrad writes "An editorial published at CNN is titled 'The Demise of Guys: How Videogames and Porn are Ruining a Generation.' It makes the sensationalized case that not only do game addiction and porn addiction share similar characteristics, but they're also both damaging to young men, destroying their ability to connect with women, and therefore threatening the future of our entire species. A response by IGN dissects the idea that pornography and videogames are pretty much the same thing. 'The article, by psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo and Nikita Duncan argues that young men are "hooked on arousal, sacrificing their schoolwork and relationships in the pursuit of getting a tech-based buzz."' Zimbardo, has danced this jig before. At the Long Beach TED conference last year he told a delighted audience that "guys are wiping out socially with girls and sexually with women." He added that young men have been so zombiefied by games and porn that they are unable to function in basic human interactions. "It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."'"
Why is it that every psychologist I've ever met was much crazier than their patients?
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
...the species isn't worth it.
This is totally untrue. I can easily falsify by point out that it it WERE true that Slashdot would be filled with socially awkward men who don't know how to talk to women and live in their parents' basement.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
The Porn Video Games. we have not had any good ones for over a decade! And Duke Nukem Forever was not porn unless you are a right wing extremist.
Us zombies demand good porn video games! And PLEASE have it voiced by Ron Jeremey!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's just like that horrid rock and roll music, it's ruining the entire generation
Last time I checked, people were still having sex. Our species is safe for now.
Stay at home and play video games and then beat off to porn, or go out in public and get my wallet drained by a woman who has only contempt for me. Tough choice.
No.
What makes a good relationship is a fucked up question.
You can answer what made the relationship between person x and person y work, but only the past tense. You won't know until it happens.
Some say that sex ruins relationships. When my wife and I met we were only concerned with one thing, sex. We have been together for 15 years with only one short separation and sex is still a cornerstone of our relationship.
hooked on arousal...
I can stop any time I want.
...recent Western culture has shown that a higher percentage of men have become fathers in the past few generations than before that.
As more and more males become adjusted to the instant high of popular culture, we'll just return to the times when a tinier percentage of men were having all the babies.
Marriage is already on a decline, in some races good husbands are hard to find so women have more biracial babies, and the powerful men won't stop spreading their seed.
Does it matter to me if the weak male class doesn't have kids? Hell no -- and they make good employees, too. Maybe better ones.
This is good news. It means more for the rest of us.
You could just as easily argue that women who look at cute catpics and stupid youtube cats/dogs/makeup videos are also becoming "socially inept". Why is it always the "guy side" that is "doing it wrong"? --------------
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
Social exclusion is widely employed by American culture and is meant to be a punishment, but video games and porn, among other things, route around that. Authoritarians are now angry that the punishment no longer works.
The past generations were already ruined, thanks to Elvis and his gyrating hips.
I come from an older generation and I've been socially awkward since long before I had easy access to games and porn.
Clearly we need to be feeding the youth of America more Corn Flakes, since they have been scientifically proven to subdue the carnal desires of young men and reduce their masturbational tendencies!
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
then what we really need is a few deer hunter MMOs.
It seems to disagree with your hypothesis.
Is her name Siri?
This is the same Philip Zimbardo who is infamous for the Stamford Experiment in which he placed university students into a jailhouse environment and allowed it to descend into chaos. Whilst it could be argued he's at the top of his field it could equally be argued that he's an idiot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zimbardo)
A little advice from one generation to another:
I found that "hey baby" works reasonably well. Unoriginal, yes, but generally effective.
As the parent of a teenage boy, I have to say Zimbardo's not entirely wrong. It's just that he's sensationalizing the issue - which, to his credit, he admits in his TED talk.
These kids are different and the opposite sex reacts differently to them simply because of the incredible web of distance communication they swim in.
My generation went outside every day. I make my kids go outside every day, too - and you know what? They are all alone out there. They see more deer, fox and geese than other kids, and I live in the suburbs, less than a mile from a shopping complex! Nature's creeping back in, more every day, and the kids lurk inside like vampires out of the sun.
These days my kids finally have their own phones, so they rarely look up from the screens any more, even when they are outside. The only reason that took so long is that I insisted they legally buy their own phones and pay their own bills.
One of the weirdest things about all this, is that my kids are the most physically capable of kicking some other kids' asses in their whole peer group, and also the least likely to try. I'm pretty sure the first part of that is my doing, but I don't know about the second part.
Has the dismantling of our patriarchal society has something to do with it? Maybe young men are 'checking out', be it games, porn, drugs whatever.....
love is just extroverted narcissism
Take it from me, college ladies. You'd have way more fun with me, a 32 year old who can hold a conversation AND I'm prepared to demonstrate what's called the "classy fuck." You won't get that from "Reese" or whatever his stupid 90's name is. Seriously, I'm here to help.
while we are at no risk of extinction (from social awkwardness anyway), and while there are plenty of well-adjusted guys playing porn and watching video games (or maybe its the other way around), there is a lot more truth to the story than many here would like to admit.
playing video games and watching porn IS a much easier and more fulfilling way to spend your time than getting shot down by girls from school. boys ARE socializing less and withdrawing more.
when i have kids, i can guarantee you that the amount of time they spend playing video games or surfing the web will be very closely watched. and they damn well won't have either of those things in their bedroom.
i don't think that porn or video games are inherently unhealthy, but i do think that they are potentially addictive in the same way that many other things are - things I would want to keep tabs on my child's access to and use of.
I mean, we always want to blame our failures on something...
Just because someone did something famous some decades ago doesn't mean all their pronouncements in an op-ed count as science. It's an interesting hypothesis, but note the distinct lack of peer-reviewed papers mentioned in the article on the subject (the article mentions some peer-reviewed papers in vaguely related areas, like the big debate over violence in videogames, but nothing on this new hypothesis). It could turn out to have some truth to it; could turn out not to. It will probably turn out to be more complex than this op-ed indicates, in any case.
In short, wait for actual science. Until then it's just some speculation.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
And by that I mean that guys who aren't that social in the first place can now at least get some interaction with others via games and get more comfortable with sexual matters via porn.
But no...it can't be that. We better start ringing the town bells on the word of a bunch of repressed pseudo-doctors.
...destroying their ability to connect with women, and therefore threatening the future of our entire species.
For 20,000 years, men have been busy beating each other and other animals to a pulp, engaging in risky behaviors, being generally anti-social, and treating women like dirt. If they're playing video games and watching porn instead of those things, I think we're going to be just fine, thanks.
And as for being unable to connect with women, they haven't been able to do that since we crawled down from the trees. Somehow, dick still manages to meet vagina. People will keep having sex no matter how bad it is, because bad sex is worse than no sex... and really, if you're going to be a straight woman, once you've weaned yourself off Disney propaganda, your standards drop dramatically. Look at how many of us married fat dudes who beach themselves on couches.
The human species is in no danger of going extinct... despite yearly predictions of the end of the world. Which is disappointing really... it means I'll probably have to pay back my student loans. -_-
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I ditched my G/F, bought a second flat panel, and can play Diablo III while watching pr0n at the same. What's the problem again?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Kids today and their video games! And their rock music! And their short leggings! And their science! And their disrespect for the Church of England! And their their caring for the slaves! And their rebellion against the Holy Roman Empire!
It's a terrible shame that the modern kids of the 400's won't be able to attract women with their service to the Empire. If he hasn't conquered a few cities, what good is he as a man, anyway?
...
More seriously, it's called a "generation gap". Today's young adults have different common standards for finding a mate, and every generation before has had other different standards. That's not even accounting for variance within the population, which in something as personal as mating preference is very widespread.
This psychologist's notions seem to go beyond merely "sensationalized" and into the realm of "utterly insane".
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
I would argue that the problem is that many men don't know how to behave respectfully around women. That is a result of many factors: pop culture (games, porn, television, music, etc.), parenting, and the failure to establish civil social norms in a society where all genders are considered equal.
Have gnu, will travel.
Right here in River City!
With a capital "T", and that rhymes with "P", and that stands for...
Sounds to me like girls need to more quickly adapt to a sudden surplus of awkward guys.
And women who read too many romance novels don't know how to relate to real men.
Yeah they are both too expensive ...
Don't worry. Most females aren't worth perusing. They've been damaged by modern culture and made be believe they're far more important than they are, and that rationality isn't a virtue. No, I'm not bitter. No, I'm not gay. I just don't care. I've met far too many 'I'm a princess because I have the pussy' trainwrecks to know that pursuing damaged goods isn't a worthwhile idea.
Not saying that there aren't genuinely great girls out there. There are! Lots. But they've got their pick of mates and statistically, you aren't it. There's always someone smarter, funnier, more outgoing, more successful, etc.
If you know you're not the greatest catch, just don't bother. You're lucky (Actually, to be aware of one's own deficiencies is a rare gift in itself). Think of every dysfunctional, nightmarish relationship you've ever witnessed.. Then think about replacing all of the great things you like to do, with that.
Who's ruined now?
I wonder if the neighbor's kids have ever gotten laid.
Them kids just sit in their rooms and play games, smoke weed, and play some more. There is some sort of employment they are involved with, but it doesn't look real stable or regular, certainly not a 9-5 job.
That said, I blame their mom. They are over privileged and simply have to pitch a fit to get what they want, whether it's a new computer part or a car to replace the last POS they bought.
I don't think it was games that did it, I think their mother's lack of parenting and failure to instill drive in them is to blame. Dad is whipped, so he's not much of an influence.
Teach kids right from wrong, learn them some work ethic, and give them opportunity to succeed, that's what I think is lacking.
Let's see.
Social interaction with a woman in the work place can end in a career ending sexual harrassment accusation when you have a falling out and she decides to exact retribution.
Social interaction with a woman on a date leading to a sexual encounter the woman regrets after can end in a life ending rape charge.
Social interaction with a women leading to marriage and children ends in a divorce which results in your ex wife taking the house and a slice of your possesions and wealth, and leaves you with an extended obligation to support her with alimony and child support while she lives with the next guy, conveniently avoiding remarriage to leave you on the hook for as long as possible. Though child support is a legitimate obligation if you willingly and knowingly fathered them.
I seriously doubt social interaction between the sexes has ever been great. Most guys were/are just jumping through a lot of painful socially mandated hoops to satify their sexual needs.
At least its less bad now than it used to be when the societal norm was you had to marry someone for LIFE, the sex stopped being good about a week after the honeymoon and there then followed 60 years of ball and chain misery.
Of course, that model was traded for one where women have acquired a nearly completely dominant position legally, socially and in the work place, which has resulted in a situation where is probably better for men in the long run, especially financially, to avoid relationships with women all together, hence the preference for games and porn.
Sure, men/boys can become addicted to porn, and/or video games, and yes it's a problem that can ruin their lives. However it's no different than alcohol or drug addiction. Both types can hinder your social development making you less desirable to the opposite sex, less likely to procreate, etc. The thing is that porn/video games/beer/marijuana all are perfectly healthy in small doses. It's only when it becomes an addiction is there a problem, and there is no reason to think that a porn/video game addiction is any worse for the future of the human race than alcohol/drug addition. So, let's not get too excited here.
That's why we hate our parents.
Surprised nobody has extended this to China, where they have too many men anyway...
Unemployment and wage stagnation are ruining a generation.
Replace porn and videogames with: rock and roll, religion, television, books, Boy Scouts, long hair, jazz music, jeans, tennis shoes, MTV, etc, etc... New year, same story, different target. Move along.
Porn has been around since, well... the dawn of humanity. Heck, there are cave drawings that were probably considered porn back then.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I'm anonymous here for the obvious reason. I'm a married 42 year old male, and when we had our first kid 6 years ago, my sex life was thrown a major curveball. Around that time I had other stress in my life, and I retreated to Porn and Masturbation as an outlet. Over the last few years, I would masturbate several times a day to online porn. My occasional ED (erectile dysfunction) became worse and worse over time, to the point where successful 10 minute intercourse was highly unlikely.
About 6 months ago I made the connection between PMO (Porn, Masturbation, and Orgasm) and my sexual performance and attitude. It took me several months of failed attempts to give it up (neurochemically reinforced habits are HARD to break). I can tell you that at the 2-month-mark of giving it up I have noticed several changes within myself, and I'm amazed. I now get MHOs (morning hard ons) where I never did before. I find women WAY WAY more real and attractive than I did before. I'm a better father and husband and person. I have more desire and energy to engage with life. The occasional few tries I've had with sex have been more successful.
I'm looking forward to making it 4-6 months, and I'll bet that I'll have the raging boners of a 19 year old again. There's a reddit group called "NoFap" that is a good discussion of this experience, and a site called "Your Brain On Porn" that has another take on things.
Don't believe me? You shouldn't. I don't want you to. Be a skeptic. However, if you AT ALL have any ED problems, or if you jerk off a few times a week, I challenge you to go cold-turkey for six months and observe the changes within yourself. You have nothing to lose!
...I don't know how to live, but I've got a lot of toys!
The article starts with the faulty premise that connecting with women is a requirement.
If a women isn't dependent on a man (thanks to increasingly equal (and in some cases exceeding) employment/opportunity/education, sperm banks, etc) for the things she desires in life, why isn't it fair game for a man to not need a women for what he desires?
I love my wife, happily married with 2 kids and I'm not a mascu-nazi, but I look at my parents generation with their greater than 50% divorce rate (with largely 1-sided devastation of the husband) and constant bombardment of the whole 'demeaning men to empower women' approach [seriously, just about any commercial in the last 40 years - the man is the moron who couldn't function w/o the woman], why would anyone want that short of being conditioned to accepting it?
I wanted to RTFA but I'm too busy masturbating and I really need to finish this game like RIGHT NOW AAARGH!
.. Also I need to do my college work, I'm going out with friends tonight and I work all weekend.
What? I don't fit into your little schema mister Doctor? Well that's odd, because if I sure as heck don't fit in there then you really screwed up.
The world needs to calm down. A few kids fiddling with their joysticks and yelling on Call of Duty isn't going to doom the human race into extinction. I know some pretty out there nerds and they get laid just fine, and have female friends just like every demographic. There are 2 sides to every coin and some peoples coins just happen to be covered in acne and instead of a head it's a controller.
It's still legal tender, we all came from the same Bank of Life.
Ha, I think I got a little fancy at the end there.
Toilet paper?
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Hoo boy, where to start? First some disclosure -- I have both a 20-something son and daughter. Both have suffered heartaches much as I did. Neither has an easy time of it.
TFA makes the major assumption that things are worse now than earlier. I would like some proof. Yes, marriage and childbirth are being delayed, but I'm far from convinced this is a bad thing. Child rearing has been improved and battery reduced.
Second, this is all been laid at the feet of the young men. Yes, our species does seem to both require activity from the males and passivity from the females. But society has become much more complex, with many more choices in activities. SSmall wonder young men don't get it right. I have to remind my daughter that her beaux cannot read her mind, and need appropriate signs of encouragement. N ot things she thinks are encouragement, but things _they_ will interpret as such.
Finally, if it actually is that things are worse, why should it be that vidgames/pr0n are to blame? Handy whipping boi's? This gets into the vent or foment debate. But sidestepping it, consider something else: half of all young people grew up in split/divorced households. Might this not make them more than a bit leery ? The staggaring increase in divorce 1970-1990 is squarely on my generation's shoulders.
I still think we have not the foggiest clue of what technological contraception does to a society long-term. It changes attitudes towards children and many other things. We are still discovering, and won't even approach normality for another 100+ years.
While the role of material culture certainly can't be ignored, this seems like a situation where ignoring the other cultural factors would be nuts.
In case anybody missed the memo, acculturation of the young in preparation for their expected vocational and relational behaviors is one of those things that has historically(and to the present day, in many cases) been taken very, very seriously. In not-at-all-uncommon scenarios like arranged marriage, caste or inherited job roles, indentured apprentices, and the like far more seriously than any sort of notion of individual autonomy or agency.
Even in cases where overt force isn't used, drilling of the young for their expected roles(and anxiety about perceived failures of that drilling) is intense. Look at all the shit that traditional moralists lose when some 'immoral' novelty hits the dating scene, or archive.org's wonderful collection of 50's and 60's mental hygiene videos instructing teenagers on how to correctly develop salubrious hobbies, prepare themselves to become a housewife, and ask Sally to the dance on Friday.
Point is, lest I ramble, if we base our estimate on the amount of effort put into molding people for their positions, kids have never had a damn clue. Indeed, many cultural arrangements have, implicitly or explicitly, operated on the premise that people simply weren't going to develop a clue. Apprenticing your kid to some trade, or arranging a good match for them, or ensuring that this student was groomed for college and that one for the coal mines was considered normal, responsible, behavior.
So, then, is the (alleged, CNN doesn't exactly demand confidence intervals...) crisis in behavior a pathology, or simply a predictable response to being presented with the alternatives of a situation with amorphous or even nonexistent guidelines and a expert-crafted narrative package with clear goals, feedback, etc.?
Perhaps its the women who should be watching more porn and playing more video games. Just sayin.
"It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."'"
In my youth, before porn and videogames (well, beyond a few hours of Nintendo here and there) I never knew what to say, or what to do. Didn't stop me from making a couple babies. [bitter]And after the wife left me for someone else, porn and videogames have done an adequate job of filling her role anyway.[/bitter]
I am more concerned about young men viewing women as little more than a couple orifices and a pair of boobs.
Your telling me that every generation before us found it easy to talk to girls?
"guys are wiping out socially with girls and sexually with women"
Great. Where can I meet the throng of women who are missing their soulmate becuase he's off masturbating to gears of war iii?
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Big BS.. It's always been that way, it's always been that a lot of boys don't know what to say or what to do.
I'd say bullies are the main problem.
My generation went outside every day. I make my kids go outside every day, too - and you know what? They are all alone out there. They see more deer, fox and geese than other kids, and I live in the suburbs, less than a mile from a shopping complex! Nature's creeping back in, more every day, and the kids lurk inside like vampires out of the sun.
I totally disagree; this is definitely something that's regional in nature. Here in Phoenix, Arizona, kids lurk inside for much of the year because it's simply too hot for humans to be outside for any longer than it takes to walk to the car. It isn't healthy for people to run around in 120-degree weather. Not only that, there's no deer, fox, or anything like that here; there's some geese and ducks at the parks, and that's about it. There are other wild animals though: there's lots of pit bulls running around that, according to their meth-head owners, "just got loose", and then attack people or more frequently their small and helpless dogs. There's also some coyotes that run around and attack any pets in peoples' yards (the coyotes will jump walls). Then of course, there's all the crime and drug gang activity, and now lately we have exploding flashlight bombs. Kids in this town have a very good reason to not go outside much.
i think the fact that you are reading/posting on slashdot proves otherwise.
He added that young men have been so zombiefied by games and porn that they are unable to function in basic human interactions. "It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."
Okay then. Subtract the porn and video games from the equation. Does that magically make guys suddenly less awkward around women? If what he's suggesting is happening, then it's not the porn and video games, it's the lack of contact with women; it's just delayed adolescence.
Can we stop using the word "addictive" for any, freaking, enjoyable thing out there?
When I was a kid I used to play Gran Tourismo 2 all day (and how much of the night I managed to stay awake) and the same thing went for any video game I liked. Actually, the same thing was true for listening to music, hanging out with my buddies and chatting up girls and whatever else I enjoyed doing.
So, just take a breather before over-re(or pro, in your case)-acting...
If a kid is at a stage where he can get aroused by porn then he's at a proper age to watch it, if he/she can't really tell what's going on (or why it is going on) then it makes no difference.
Ok, all that is based on my own experience and is the definition of anecdotal evidence but to all future parents: please trust your kids unless they give you reason to believe otherwise.
"and therefore threatening the future of our entire species."
Even if this WERE true, you might argue that this trait in humans would evolve away as there are some humans who are not as influenced by porn and video games. They will go on to reproduce...
As Naomi Wolf, explained about a decade ago, porn has an equal effect on women, as they must act out porn scenes in order to get close to a man.
We're assuming these are men. Let me just say that the women worth having like porn and video games just as much as guys. And the other kind aren't worth your time.
Now, to justify that above paragraph, one has to agree being housebound abusing one's person physically and mentally is bad. I am not going to be so judgmental as to say it is wrong, but is certainly not considered typical. OTOH, just going out there a randomly hooking is not something that society wants to be typical either. So this is certainly one of those cases that has been set up and propagated by a delusional and psychologically disjointed society. We are only supposed to be controlled in what we do.
But ultimately a person who doesn't play well with others done need computers or videos games. A book can be a perfect evening companion. To say that the video games are exacerbating the situation is say that kids are bringing prospects home to play video games under the guise of bringing on more physical play. In my experience, any excuse will do between interested parties. In this case i would say the sex porn is going to do more damage because it promotes unrealistic expectation. In reality, i would say the image that come up in a safe google search for 'girls' or 'boys' is going to do more damage than any porn as if anyone actually thinks they are going to date those people, they are going to lose many prospects of people that can actually provide for an entertaining afternoon.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I get the feeling that this guy has been wiping out with women since he was a teenager and is just seeking a scapegoat for his inadequacies. Guys have never needed the help of video games or porn to wipe out with women. We're experts on that all on our own thank you very much!
Maybe men that don't interact well with women are the result of NOT spending any time learning about women. If they did then they would learn that porn is usually geared towards what men want sexual interaction to look like, NOT what women want it to look like.
Interacting with real people requires social skills that get harder to acquire as we get older because the unconditional love of mom/dad/grandma/.. may not be there to lessen the blow of rejection or realizing we need to change in some area. It is easier to distract ourselves with entertainment (video games, porn, movies, etc.) than to risk having a negative relationship experience. If there is no one we trust to instruct us in the proper way to behave then we will just assume that the rest of the world is the problem. This could lead to some very bad behavior.
I believe there is a downward trend in the ability of men and women to interact in a healthy way. Women may not have issues with video games and porn but they can easily become very self-centered, vain, gossipy, and lacking in social skills. I just think that the cause, which has always been, is poor parenting.
"Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
There's a girlfriend out there for every porn and video game zombified male. Probably a porn and video game zombified female!
It is not a male phenomina.
My exwife played World of Warcraft 12 hours a day. Her teaching jobs became only temporary and she would stay up until 2am and sleep until noon and let the kids fend for themselves for breakfast, and only apply for jobs when I put pressure on her and mention no one has ever gotten hired staying up til 2am and sleeping until 11.
She found work again but kept playing over and then wouldn't let me play with her because I did not have enough gear score. Sorry, but working and going to school affords me less time to do raiding. Worse, these men she would play with flirted with her and she spent more time with them than me.
I finally dumped her when she was sending erotic messages and masturbating to these guys. After the disrespect for me not making enough money, I at least made an attempt to improve myself. So I moved out and sent her the papers.
This is a role reversal here. But I understand where these women are coming from. I maybe a man but I have my standards and do not appreciate somene critizing me for spending time on slashdot while she is on Wow. In hindsight she did apologize and say it was used as escapism. But I gave her the option to quit so she wouldn't have to keep escaping.
http://saveie6.com/
Are these things causing men to become socially inept and awkward, or are some men turning to these things because the are already socially inept and these things provide some entertainment? Socially awkward guys have always existed. I am annoyed when 'experts' in psychology tell the media that x causes y without any way to prove causation.
"It's a social awkwardness like a stranger in a foreign land", he said. "They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."
At least for me, this is the case, but video games and porn had NOTHING to do with it.
At the age of four I was using DOS commands better than my dad who used them at work all the time. I performed my first paid computer repair at the age of eleven, having read "Windows 95 for Dummies" cover to cover the year before. Computers and computer concepts came naturally to me, though admittedly I can't code to save my life. I did have a similar experience when it came to video editing and DJing, both of which I do on the side and make a decent chunk of change in the process. These things came naturally to me to the point where I never really had to think about what I wanted to do for a living. I knew from an extremely young age my career would involve computers and music; I never had to take one of those "what do you want to be when you grow up" tests in high school. I'd known for years.
Social graces were as foreign to me. When I explain this to people, many of them look at me sideways and can't fathom the concept that for some people, social interactions would be a learned skill, just like computers are to them. What's ironic is that when you ask them, "so what would you recommend I say to this girl, given $SITUATION", they have to stop and think about it, too. To many, it is instinct. To people like myself, it took very explicit 'study' and 'tutoring', the latter coming from several female friends over the years who have spent a lot of time and effort getting me to the point where I can mostly hold a conversation with a stranger, even the good looking ones, and not make things totally awkward.
Without those people in my life, I may or may not have learned how to socially interact effectively. What if I had not? Every social engagement would conjure up all the excitement of a Calculus exam, because it'd be guaranteed that I'd stand in a corner and be incapable of talking to anyone, utterly terrified that I'd end up talking about computers or DJ gear or NLE plug-ins - topics I know about, but are useless to basically anyone else I'd be talking to. It'd be a vicious cycle that I'd be terrified of saying or doing something stupid or awkward, then find myself actually doing so, only to reinforce my belief that it would happen next time, and find out that I was right yet again.
Compare that to video games. The rules are extremely well established; the viewer doesn't have to re-learn them each time they enter the game. They're set up so that if you fail, you can try again. You can lookup walkthroughs on Youtube or IGN. If the player fails, no one knows but themselves (unless they're playing multiplayer). They have conventions that are well understand. They can be played on the player's schedule and terms. The price is explicitly established up front (unless there is DLC, which again, is on the player's terms). The NPCs that aren't explicit enemies generally respect the player. Video games aren't played due to an expectation for life to emulate them. They are chosen because this inexhaustive list of attributes is in explicit contrast to real life.
Compare it to porn. The porn is chosen based on what the viewer desires to do at that time. It doesn't require an initial, elaborate attempt to seduce the individual in the scene. The viewer isn't competing with other people for the porn star's attention or affection, and there is absolutely no fear of rejection. Again, porn isn't watched as an expectation for life to emulate it. It's watched because life *doesn't* emulate it.
So, in summary, we are stating that individuals who frequently fail at particular tasks in real life choose environments where failure doesn't really happen. The study might correctly assume that guys who play video games and habitually watch porn are socially awkward, but the assumption that's inaccurately made is that such individuals preemptively chose it instead of attempting more conventional means of relationships, as opposed to video games and porn being the only outlet of acceptance due to a long history of failure and a dearth of alternative means to rectify social awkwardness.
Similarly, guys don't have to settle for some high maintenance ice queen that will never put out.
You can't help the survival of the human race if you aren't willing to have sex or bear children.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
playing video games and watching porn IS a much easier and more fulfilling way to spend your time than getting shot down by girls from school. boys ARE socializing less and withdrawing more.
Even if this is the case, what exactly is wrong with this? If the males in question are satisfied with the choices they've made, who cares?
I see two possible consequences if this alleged trend plays out. First, these men will reproduce less, and these tendencies will be bred out of the population. Or alternatively, females will become more accomodating to these tendencies, and being a smooth talker won't matter so much anymore. In either case, what's the problem?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
What fucking bullshit. Want to know why guys can't connect with women? Cause all these chicks are either batshit crazy, spoiled rotten, and/or full of themselves; who are either gold-diggers, control freaks, or have this insanely unattainable idea of what a "real man" should be. They want everything to be exactly their way and to give up nothing, or worse, trap the men they set their sights on into a lifetime of alimony and child support. Sorry, but that's not how relationships work.
Who the hell would choose that nonsense over playing games and watching porn?
Agreed. It's not the end of the world by any means, but as is often the case there's some truth in the middle, particularly for porn.
Futurama's Don't Date Robots gag wasn't entirely wrong. At the risk of reducing my gender to an object here, the impetus for men to enter into stable monogamist relationships with women is the companionship of and sex with a woman. Over time stronger long term emotional bonds develop, but in the short term the hook is what we can do to satisfy the seemingly bottomless well of male lust.
Porn changes that. I would like to think sex with a good woman is still better than doing it as a solo activity, but at the same time I know I can't compete with porn from a variety perspective (I can't be blonde, brunette, 18, a MILF, and asian all at the same time). And to be clear I do like a good (or dirty?) porno now and then myself - it's something I enjoy sharing with my fiancee - but it's something we can do together that strengthens our bond. I know he's also wanking it on the side (what man doesn't?) but at no point do I feel like he's avoiding the opportunity to have sex with me, in spite of the ups and downs of a relationship. But can a guy still have some kind sexual gratification without actually interacting with a woman? With the incredible amount of porn available these days (and increasingly complex toys), absolutely. And that's the issue.
At least from my perspective it's something that has already changed relationship dynamics. I've been fortune to meet a wonderful man that is my fiancee, but for many of my friends they have not been so lucky. We are all at an age where we should be settling down and forming those long term commitments, and while my friends are ready, the men they should be forming those commitments with are not. It's not that the men aren't there financially or even emotionally, but from the perspective of someone entering into one of those relationship, so many of the men simply don't see the need for a woman. They go do things together as guys while rarely interacting with the girls, and apparently that's all they ever need. And I absolutely think porn plays a part in that because their sexual needs are being met elsewhere.
Is porn bad? No, clearly not. But there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and I believe we've reached that point. As things stand we're going to end up with a lot of awkward middle-agers in a couple of decades, who will have never formed a long term relationship either because they shortchanged the original impetus to do so (men), or because there were no partners for them (women).
TL;DR: Porn not all bad, but too much porn means men never settle down with women because they don't need sex.
How many Frags did you get?
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
Pretty pathetic article... prof. Zimbardo goes for sensation instead of science... Just like popular culture starlets... Looks like the first victim of porn and video games is quality of research of prof. Zimbardo... I prefer videogames and porn to drugs and promiscuity of the 70s... not mentioning gas chambers and mass rapes of the 40s .....
I could similarly argue that TV was killing socialization.
Or before TV - movies (no need to talk to a girl - just eat popcorn).
I love how it is always something wrong on the part of men, but that's the whole point when you get down to it.
Men are tired of women's crap.
Men are tired of American women in particular.
Men are tired of being told to "Act like a man" by women who don't want to "Act like a woman"
Men are tired of the atmosphere that has been created as of late.
Men are much more jaded by 25 because of women they've dated than ever before.
Men are tired of being treated as a pocketbook, resource, protector, etc.. and getting crapped on in return.
Men are tired of being expected to take on the dangerous jobs, longer hours, and more responsibility, but are screamed at for making more money.
Let's face it, most men don't want any part of it after a while.
Give me something to enjoy my time with, some food and let me blow my load on occasion, and my needs are generally met.
When the cost of dating a woman is more than a hooker, it's time to just get a hooker.
Video games don't nag, pester, whine and demand attention every 10 minutes.
Video games don't expect you to like all their friends, nor try to get to know all of your friends.
I don't have to buy porn dinner or take it to a movie before it'll put out.
Porn and video games don't have some irrational urge to talk about feelings and relationships every day.
Porn and video games don't start dropping hints after 6 months about moving in and/or getting married.
Simply put, again, many men are tired of women's crap, American women specifically.
There's a number of decent foreign women who know how to interact with a man while still being able to be themselves, and more guys are becoming aware of this and going for them, vs a bunch of spoiled, loud mouth, bossy, overly entitled, classless American bitches with nothing but bad attitudes.
Men may be the ones who are going for video games and porn, but women are the ones driving them to it.
Much like how these articles always seem to be written by women, or a woman leading around yet another spineless, pussy-whipped man giving a broken spirited 'Yes dear" after everything she says.
Boys & girls will find some way of having sex.. The future of the species is assured.
Moderation in all things.
My parents made me go outside and play with other kids instead of watching TV all the time (which was the lazy kid's asocial "activity" of that decade). Now, I may be single (after one long-term relationship) and weigh 200lbs in my 40s, but I probably have them to thank for the fact that I'm not a virgin (with no long-term relationship) and weigh 300lbs in my 40s.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
i don't care if my kid sneaks a playboy under his bed. i want him to understand and appreciate sex. but a few nudie magazines are a lot different from having access to a virtually unlimited quantity of porn videos, some of which are horribly degrading and may affect his outlook on women and sex.
Hey, I know:
Let's ask the target audience of a psychological disorder if they believe in it?
Because if there's one thing people are great at (especially adolescent boys and grown man-children) it is saying to themselves, "Hm, I might actually have a problem."
Yeah, they're just great at that.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Wow, but isn't this perfect news for all who are worried of declining natural resources as a result of overpopulation? This behavior should be encouraged, not ridiculed or presented as an "alarming problem". Where is the problem? If women finish their studies more often than men and become leaders of the workplace and politics then we are in a women driven world. If these masses of Alpha Females feel that there is a mating problem then perhaps they should start making the first moves?
:)
I remember seeing a ST:TNG episode of women driven society where men were the weaker sex and Riker had to wear some embarrassing clothes to please locals.
Answer: no where. This is not science. It's story telling by scientists. It's a narrative people are sure to find enthralling. Especially at TED talks.
Here's what''s going on. It's a two parter, so pay attention. Part one is old people are always discomfited by the degenerative state of the younger generation and point to some new aspect of culture that's degrading the next generations. Always. Every generation. You should read what establishment psychologists had to say about about the Beatles , along with Christian fundies etc etc.
From http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1965.0829.beatles.html
Q: "Last summer in San Francisco, a doctor said that the Beatles were instruments of the communist propaganda-- that you were softening up and corrupting America's youth. What did you say to that?" JOHN: "I think he should see a doctor. that doctor. He must be mad. You know-- Doctor of what! I mean who was he, you know. So many nuts over here, they call themselves doctors... and Sergeants and things." PAUL: "We're all capitalists, anyway. Don't worry. CAPITOL-ists! Get it?" (laughter)
Second middle aged guys look at their lives and can too clearly see how much money they're ever going to have, feel disappointed and set out on some entrepreneurial scheme to better their financial standing . If you're an academic, this means you write a book and hope it's a best seller.
If your assessment is that men should want to settle down with women to gain access to sex then I say "screw you" and I think pron is a wonderful equalizer. I am opposed to this idea that women should have this advantage that they get to use in relationships. "You do what I want or you don't get sex." That's manipulative and thus something I feel is wrong. So if porn equalizes that, takes away than, then great.
In my opinion a relationship needs to be because you both want each other, for whatever reason(s). It needs to be a mutual thing that you connect on any number of levels. You settle down because of all that, not because women make it a requirement to have sex.
Sorry, but that's the other half of the equality equation.
By that same token I can also say that CNN is another source of conservative propaganda, maybe not at the same level of those nut-jobs at FOX news, but sometimes it shows. Games and porn were always available in whatever generation you can mention, in one form or another. I can also make the case that maybe men these days simply cannot cope with the level of acceptance of infidelity, complete loss of sense of roles and values in most relationships and that pretty much a good deal of women these days aren't worth the potential troubles that marriage or something of the sorts would bring.
Same nonsense as the moral panic over comic books in the 1940s-50s. Same nonsense the older generation always accuses the younger generations of.
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." You know who said that? Socrates (ca. 469 BC - 399 BC).
Liberty in your lifetime
We all know that with the increasing pace of technology, concepts such as "the family", "childhood", "marriage", etc that were once the foundations for civilization are being effectively removed from modern society.
Let me state that I don't agree with these changes, or support them, just that I see them happening and understand it is a cause of the swift changes taking place because of technology's affects on society.
In the Developed/First World, the birth rate is slowing, mothers having their first child are getting older, marriages are taking place later in life, less people are getting married, etc; etc;.
One doesn't need to be a social scientist to see where this is going.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Fucking cunts, the lot of them.
John Harvey Kellogg was an anti-masturbation fanatic, and developed corn flakes as a means to suppress libido. Seriously. They don't work for that purpose, of course, but then it isn't like logic and empirical testing were this dude's strong points.
Yet another loaded headline and another discussion down the drain. I don't doubt that porn, games and just the Internet in general have some effect on us, but it would really help when those articles wouldn't always start with a conclusion and instead just start with presenting quantifiable data. So how much less do man actually talk to women? How much time do they spend indoors in isolation instead of outside doing sports compared to 10, 20 or 50 years ago? What influence has Internet dating on all this, does it undo the damage happening elsewhere, does it have a noticeable effect at all? How come women are always just a passive object in those discussion, they don't they play games and watch porn too?
I am sure there are plenty of changes going on, but when the headline is little more then an attack on somebodies lifestyle and a pretty old one at that (remember how rock'n roll, techno and whatever would ruin us all?), then all the responses will just boil to self defense, not some useful discussion.
You know whats destroying my generation? The emasculation of men. I am no longer allowed to be a man, I cant swear, I cant look at a non-nude girl magazine at work, I cant get angry for fear of being singled out as an aggressor, modern society accept me only if I act like a woman. Seriously F%@# THAT! Years ago I made the decision to be a part of society, so where am I allowed to be who I really am? Online, I can swear, I can say 'nice rack', I can look at naked women, I can indulge in my fetishes, sadly its online where I dont feel judged because im surrounded by others with the same beliefs. I am not alone. Im not socially inept nor am I devoid of confidence. Im 37 years young, make a 6 figure salary, own a house and most of a unit, have an obnoxiousness sports car and a computer setup any geek would be proud of. Want to know the best part? Im not married and I bloody love it! Modern day society has more issues than pr0n and computer games, but its easy to single them out for the above reasons.
I put X Y sensors on my penis so I can save time and get both jobs done at once..
Get off my lawn!
So let me get this straight, my parents generation were bad because of the under aged sex and loose moral values. And now apparently my generation is bad because we kill virtual elves and don't knock up the neighbor's daughter?
It's just sad that none of these people has the self awareness to see that they're doing everything the last generation did when encountered by the inevitably different values and priorities of the next group.
You think there is something wrong with these darned kids?... Try to help them find whatever happiness that they're lacking within the context of their world view. You took the rocker and dropped him into bible school you're just going to make him miserable. Likewise you're not going to get people to stop gaming.
As to women not being pleased... that's ultimately a darwin award situation. That cuts both ways but we'll see what happens. Possibly a generation of gamers will die out... but then a lot of anti gamer women might likewise go into spinsterhood without children.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
That their real implication seems to be that if you aren't interested in getting married as soon as you have a stable job and fathering children, you are a reject. As though the primary purpose for men should be to provide money and genetic material for children. Nothing else matters. If a woman wishes to be a career woman and not do kids until later, or at all, that's great. If a man wants to do that he's defective.
I mean I'll take myself as an example: 31, unmarried, no kids. I own a house, have a salaried job above the median income, with a pension, and in general I'm pleased with my life. I'm certainly no "burden on society" or anything. However, since I spend my time playing video games instead of watching TV (average male watches 4.1 hours a day averaged over a week, average female 4.8 hours, I watch about 0.3 hours per day) and I am not a father, people like this journalist see me as a problem. I'm not busy propagating the species so clearly I'm a loser.
No, sorry, I don't see it that way. In fact the way I see it, we have too many people. Population growth needs to level off if we are to have a sustainable future. I don't want to see that through draconian population control measures, I'd rather see it through people self regulating. Well, I dislike kids, have ever since I was a kid, I always got along with adults better. So I don't wish to have any. However others wish to have more than two kids for a family. Works out.
I will acknowledge a problem if they can show that males are dropping out of society as a whole, as in not getting jobs, living at home, doing nothing with their lives, more with video games and/or porn as opposed to more traditional problems around that (like drugs) but that's it. If they can't show me that, and I suspect they can't, then I fail to see the problem. Video games being used in place of TV as entertainment isn't a problem, and not wanting to have a family isn't a problem (I'd argue it is a good thing for some people to feel that way).
If I'm going to be labeled as "defective" or "dysfunctional" for wanting a good life, but without kids, then fine, I'll own that label because I'm happy with who I am. If it means I never get married, I'm ok with that too. I'd love to find a woman who wants to be with someone like me, but I'm not interested or ok with trying to force a woman who wants children in to a childless relationship.
More women are bitches nowadays and expect you to bend over backwards for them to buy them the shit they want. They simply can't be happy and keep you miserable in the process. Making you think that you are not good enough to satisfy them materialistically or in the bedroom. Every woman I have dated from 14 to 27 was a complete psycho after about 3mo and started getting demanding. I am 32 now, been single for the last 5yrs, never married and couldn't be more happy than not having to please some fucking psycho. Your results may vary, this is just my experience.
"That's right...I said it."
A majority of the responses can be summed up as, "Shrinks are crazy", "You're old and out of touch", "it's just fear mongering about the latest social bogeyman", "I did those things and I'm fine...", "It's not my (gaming and/or porn). It's X.", or (my favorite) - "the WOMEN suck, not us".
I don't mean to sound like a troll, and maybe people are just half joking about it, but wow... If you don't agree with their work, fine - but at least have a valid argument to discredit it, instead of blowing off their work on porn and gaming addiction with those lazy copouts and anecdotes listed above.
They are talking about really important issues that affect real people every day - likely including many of the posters here.
If this were a significant issue, we'd be seeing dramatic changes in the dating scene. Reports from colleges with male female ratios as skewed as little as 55/45 (in either direction) suggest that even reasonably small changes tend to have drastic social consequences. Yet it doesn't seem like anything like that is being observed in the adult world (for lack of a better term).
Why would you even write an article like this?
What kind of scientist would try to make such bold, sweeping statements about men and women with the norms of society changing so quickly and in so many different directions?
Things that men used to do to woo women are considered harassment these days, did anybody take that into consideration? Just saying "nice dress" can screw over the rest of your professional career. Not necessarily the same thing happens if a woman compliments your hair or your shoes.
That's probably one of the major causes of intelligent men being guarded about women. Depending on which state you're in, having casual consensual sex can present the risk of any of numerous life-altering consequences, and I don't mean STIs. Just hitting on a woman can fuck up your job and even your college career.
Women, meanwhile, left to their own devices due to all of these strangleholds, are left with two normal options:
* Guys who break the rules -- way to go, bitch, at least now the rest of us can say you literally asked for it. Goodbye, judgement of character!
* Bad choices that women make out of rebellion or angst (or boredom) because they get sick of waiting for whatever imaginary Prince Charming who is going to break all the rules of common sense and civil statute. Like deciding maybe the guy with hereditary retardation is a good match because he's the only guy she's met who offers the long-term prospects of financial security (and she also decides she'll be voting Democrat).
Etc.
Then there are the exceptions but in most of those success stories, the relationship bears a close resemblance to a betrothal or something, where they've known each other "forever" and already don't have rules in place for each other.
Or it takes place in hippie opium dens and, by stages, in planned parenthood clinics and hospitals...
Hold, on really, whose standard is the scientist judging this all on? If asked, would he be saying that guys should be having more sex at a younger age? More sex all the time? That there's not enough sexual pressure in society? Somebody should tell whatever whack-it is to get a grip. Obviously he's throwing out completely arbitrary judgements, and besides I reiterate, where's the scientific control on the environment? You don't make startling conclusions about an experiment based on assumed static conditions when something like the temperature or pressure are constantly changing. Apparently not unless you're a crazy psychologist, anyway.
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
"Is Ron Paul a nutjob?" - MSNBC.com ;-)
>>>"they are hooked on arousal"
It's better than drugs, alcohol, or other dangerous behaviors. Also pretty damn important. If arousal didn't exist, the human species would stop mating and go extinct. THAT is what I call a bad adaptation.
What's the name of that monkey that has sex as often as we say Hi? "Hey Bubbles how's it going?" Bang, bang, bang. "Great Chuckles. Hey there goes Mr. Peepers." Bang, bang, bang. Overrampant sex drive doesn't seem to have harmed them none.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
I guess now that the efforts of a handful of researchers to blame video games for violence has become pretty much discredited given the way that rates of actual violence have dropped consistently as video games have become more popular and more realistic, they are trying to blame video games for problems young men have relating to women (although I notice the article tries once again to push the old insinuation that "aggression" -- in nonviolent laboratory tests -- is somehow predictive of violence). Once again, where is the actual real-world evidence that young men are having any more difficulty relating to women than they ever have?
Yes, it is still true that men tend to like stimulating activities like playing sports, watching sports, watching action shows on TV, and, yes, playing videogames. And sometimes, they do it to excess, to the point of causing problems in their lives, and particularly with respect to their relationships with women. And doubtless this involves the basal ganglia of the brain, just like everything else that people like doing. Maybe if you somehow conflate this with a genuinely serious social problem--drug addiction--you can get support for even more research funds for the kind of laboratory studies of videogames that have so far utterly failed to yield any useful insights. I'd love to see somebody studying this general issue, and developing genuinely effective therapeutic strategies for men who are having trouble balancing these pleasurable activities with the rest of their lives. But seizing upon and demonizing one particular activity out of the many stimulating activities that men enjoy, simply because that happens to be enjoyed by young men (it's always easier to get the older generation worked up about something that modern teenagers do) does not strike me as a productive approach.
Or black guys. You forgot about the glorification of black men.
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
You can't help the survival of the human race if you aren't willing to have sex or bear children.
Patently false.
.: Semper Absurda
Uh, no, porn and video games are NOT the same. Not by a long shot... (pun not intended)
Nothing is new under the sun. I direct you towards Fredric Wertham and _The Seduction of the Innocent_ which made alarmist claims towards comic books.
This book made the rest of his career lucrative and resulted in the establishment of the Comics Code Authority. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent
playing video games and watching porn IS a much easier and more fulfilling way to spend your time than [trying to socialize].
Easier for some people, yes, but I wouldn't say more fulfilling. I think a large part of the problem is that there's no social education. Some people can watch a ballgame and learn the rules, and learn from other people's success and mistakes, but some people need an explanation before the game starts to make sense. It's no different for socializing. Having a school dance once or twice a year is like throwing kids in a swimming pool once a year and expecting them to learn how to swim.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
One or two strong female role models will have a larger impact than a hundred nudie magazines or porn streaming sites.
.: Semper Absurda
destroying their ability to connect with women, and therefore threatening the future of our entire species.
If the result is a population reduction, that can only be a good thing, for the short to medium term anyhow: there's too damn many people on the planet as it is...
I've been working for 12 years and married for 8.
I sure hope to be married for life. Sex is better than ever, though the kids tend to cramp our style. I don't know of any cases at work or in my circle of friends where a woman has accused a man of sexual misconduct as an act of revenge/regret.
I lived in equatorial Africa with no air conditioning for years. I don't buy the excuse that it's too hot to go outside.
Besides, if it's that bad then why not move somewhere better?
If women played games and watched more porn then we'd all be on the same level right? Or am still dreaming.....
It is right and proper that media outlets such as CNN are making us aware of the peril facing our species. After all, what is the point of worrying about poverty, disease, global warming, famine and inequality? These things will soon go away, as homo sapiens fall prey to the creeping menace of shooting games and too much fapping.
(From IGN article linked in summary).
.: Semper Absurda
Yep, that pretty well sums it up. I can't wait to get away from here. It wasn't so bad 10-15 years ago, but it's really gone down the tubes lately.
perhaps 'fulfilling' was not the best word choice. instant gratification is more what i had in mind. but i wholeheartedly agree with you. for the ones that social interaction comes naturally, video games and porn are probably much less of an issue. but for those who are already mildly socially awkward, video games (or porn, or books, or television, or whatever) are an easy way out - one that will only make their problem worse. yes, i speak from experience.
at least books stimulate the mind, expand the vocabulary, give you something interesting to talk about with the opposite sex. the others, much less so.
In one of the links, a caption says "She knows. He's been playing Facebook games." I ask you, the Slashdot jury, who is more likely to be playing Facebook games: he or she?
Nope, no kids and no self-discipline either but I haven't turned into a thieving, druggy, alcoholic, sex addict, serial killer, mysogynistic womanizer even though when I was a kid I stole an ice cream, tried pot, drunk beer, watched porn, played FPS games and fooled around with girls. Point of fact, from what people tell me I've turned out quite alright.
:)
So if your kid wants a piece of cake for breakfast just give it to them, it won't ruin their damn lives.
Like I said, trust them at first and keep trusting them until they cross the line (and by that I don't mean until the kill a hooker) and then tell them that they fucked up and take away their decision making privillages for an amount of time.
Obviously, we're talking about kids as if one size fits all and that's not the case but it's nice to make conversation.
I'll tell you what. Lots of other posters have already pointed out the obvious. D&D, rock and roll, marihuana, you name it. There's a song from a move I remember that starts with Oompa-Loompa and then it turns into a musical version of Robert Bly's Iron John: A Book about Men (it nicely complement Warren Farrel's The Myth of Male Power). If there's a problem with the young men, it's a failure of the old men.
I used to be able to call myself a trans woman.
(till I took an arrow to the knee, yuk yuk yuk).
But seriously. I realized that I could never be a woman, because of the phrase "women and children." This, gentlemen, is the answer key to why men always get the blame.
You see, it's really quite simple to talk to a woman. Assume she has the intellect of a 10 year old.
Yes. I realized a while back that in order to interact with a woman and keep my sanity, I had to trivilize and objectify her. There is simply no other way. Women do not want responsibility and they do not want equality, except as I wrote in another post, Orwellian equality where all genders are created equal but some genders are more equal than others.
You cannot have a system of separate-but-equal. It never works.
And, to conclude, I must also recommend Julia Serano's Whipping Girl. Those three books are a trifecta that shows how misandry hurts women. They should be mandatory reading instead of the usual drivel in English classes about pregnant houses and how long hair is rape.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Television, Dungeons & Dragons, Grunge music, Rap, etc. (Actually, I think a good case can be made for rap.)
I think what's done more damage than anything to the last several generations has been American imperialism. Just look at how badly the Vietnam debacle destroyed Americans' confidence and faith in their government and society. And guess who promotes imperialism? The older generations (for any given timeframe); it's not the 18-year-olds that are voting for that, but they're the ones being sent off to die in the stupid wars the older people want.
I don't know, something has changed however since my Mom and Dad grew up.
After what my friends went through in devorces and kids issues, I am freakin petrified of chix's I think. :-)
(Never will admit that in real life though as I am a coward.
Unless of course said "chix" have a ON/OFF button and run LINUX and I prefer ASIAN women. ;-)
(i.e. Any laptop made in the far east is fine.)
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I don't buy this.
There wasn't much in the way of computers when I was young (we had a dial-up system with a DECWriter II at my middle school, and I spent a lot of time on it once I got there. Before middle school and after (since my high school had no computers), I spent my time on fishing and cars, two things that few girls were interested in, then or now. I also read a lot, something girls do a lot, too, but it's a solitary activity, and my reading interests didn't align with girls (I was Lord of The Rings; they were ponies, Nancy Drew, etc.)
Despite having a mostly geek childhood and adolescence, I grew up, dated, had girlfriends, got married, had kids, all the usual things that most people do.
Video games? Was never heavily into them, but did play when I was single. Have a Wii now, but the kids use it more than I do. My wife uses it more than I do, too.
Porn? Not much time for that, either. I watch it now and then. Usually with my wife. The article acts like women don't watch porn, but I can assure you that many of them do.
In short, I think TFA is a load of crap.
If porn did not exist there probably would be more dating. It is a cheaper, easer, and faster alternative.
And video games really are so fun as to by an alternative to social interaction. If I did not have video games, I probably would spend at least a few more hours a week socializing.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
This is a good point, I'd mod you Insightful of I had mod points and you weren't AC :)
The fact of the matter is, most of us guys probably wouldn't put up with women except for three things: tits, pussies, and the fact that most of them can cook better than most of us :-) Smiley, but serious all the same.
On the other hand, most women probably wouldn't put up with guys except for dicks, and the fact that we can lift heavy stuff and unscrew really tight jar and bottle caps.
It's only our differing abilities and needs that enable us to tolerate one another enough to get married :-)
And I fully expect that once sex robots are perfected to the point that they've passed the uncanny valley (or maybe before, for some people), there will be a percentage of guys who will just buy a sex robot (or two or three) and flip the On switch when they want to get laid, then send the robot back to its storage location and get a good night's sleep.
A few women might buy them as well (after all, what guy could match the stamina of a sex bot), but I do expect it will be a mostly male thing.
As systemic, bureaucratic, and hypocritical extremist feminism encroaches on the politics of the institutions controlling the doorways to success, men and boys will have an increasingly harder time. Government, employers, schools (elementary to university), the military, and virtually every other path of progress are affected by this, and it's getting worse. Society has been so obsessive about women's rights/needs/whims due to the combination of reinterpreted chivalry (what creates manginas and white knights in adult males) and bigoted gynocentrism passed off as 'social justice,' that no one in power is interested in representing an equitable balance in the houses or sane judgments in the courts. Yes, the feminist men this dynamic creates help keep it going as much as feminist women.
men are washing out with women because women today are taught to have ridiculous expectations, entitlement complexes, and systemic fear of men, starting in junior high health class. They want men they're attracted to, of course, but are taught to demand men they can control, psychologically, like children or pets, which creates a double bind between highbrow reason and lowbrow libido. They are told from age 8 by the media and school that men are the first cause for every failure to move up in the world. Failure is the fault of the 'patriarchy' and women would flourish if only it was crushed just a little harder. Feminists claim they want equality but have no idea what the term means, or implies, as people are not clones, and the genders certainly not simple social constructs. It's that or they're purposely vindictive for their own gain. They don't understand (or care) that real social justice comes from equity, not oppressive doublethink equality created by strict conformance to one party's expectations.
men on the other hand are taught to revere women and their whims as rights. They are taught that any relationship shortcoming is their fault and she is blameless. If she's upset it's his fault, and if his expectations aren't met, it's his fault for not measuring up to feminist expectations in the first place. psychological draw and quarter attacks like this from feminism are what is turning guys into permanent adolescents, not video games. men should have the chance to earn respect while not being held to this one way feminist damocles sword social contract. Right now, such opportunities only exist for women, backed by a culture that produces tripe like this CNN piece. Men are taught by such tripe to devalue themselves to levels rivaling stockholm syndrome, as the media and education is saturated with reverence of feminine ideals/imperatives and ridicule of any assertive masculine trait. The pressure on men to act feminine is growing. Video games and sports are the last two bastions of escape left for men, and even that is starting to deteriorate (that despicable breast cancer awareness routine with the NFL comes to mind, and performance double standards in the military that have equal rewards of rank). A man who has no fear of expressing his expectations for women is considered a bigot while it is a-ok for women to express their ill-gotten notions about men. Everywhere. This is what feminism today is doing to men, and of course they fail to measure up. Psychologically healthy men make poor women, as it should be. Men and women are different, and this must be tolerated equitably.
Notice how the article plays up feminine relationship imperatives by labeling them as the standard by which things should be, while men are compared to rats in a cage, or with compulsive gamblers. Then, it says
"excessive use of video games and online porn in pursuit of the next thing is creating a generation of risk-averse guys who are unable (and unwilling) to navigate the complexities and risks inherent to real-life relationships, school and employment."
What this really means is that men aren't measuring up to the standards that feminists have embedded in these life processes for their own
That was my experience too. Of course, I identified several causes that made things worse, and which were, at the time, unusual. Moving every 2-3 years while growing up didn't help at all, e.g. Funny thing, that seems to have become more common.
So quite possibly teenagers are now less socially apt than they were. I don't know. But there are many reasons why this might well be so.
That said, it's quite possible that computer games render recovery more difficult. (Recovery? But what better word is there?) This doesn't make them the proximate cause. I'd be more willing to blame parents keeping their children locked in their homes "for safety's sake". Or moving around more. Or loss of neighborhood schools. Or... Please note that each one of these "possible causative factors" has it's own separate reasons for happening. So fixing the problem isn't simple, and fixing the problem would only help the next generation, not the current one.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Alcohol addiction is actually far more serious, since it is a physical addiction, in addition to a mental one (you can die from physical withdrawal symptoms). Yet for some reason people aren't crying that we need to ban all alcohol to save society. People can accept that only some people are addicts and those people need to stay away from alcohol, but it is fine for others. It won't destroy society, it hasn't, and has been around forever.
Yet somehow videogames and porn are a problem... Ya sorry, calling bullshit.
If people have an addiction to anything they need to get help and stop. An addiction isn't healthy, hence the reason for having labeling for it and help for it. However for people who aren't addicted then there is no problem.
To me the videogame stuff seems the same bullshit as we've had with anything else younger generations liked that older generations didn't understand: "This is new and confusing to me so it is clearly evil! Young people suck!"
The porn thing? Barely one step up from all the anti-masturbation hysteria there used to be. "Oh don't let kids touch themselves it is unnatural and will fuck them up! Sex should only be something done in a manner and time approved by the church!"
I grew up in San Diego with coyotes in my yard.
I also lived in southern New Mexico for several years (just as arid as southern Arizona) and experienced a record heat wave of 115-120 temperatures for about 2-3 weeks.
Stop exaggerating. The Phoenix heat only peaks in the middle of the day. Most of the year is quite pleasant, and even in the hottest part of the summer, it's still nice outside before 10 and after 5-6. The evenings are beautiful and there's more than enough light to play outside safely. Evening is even the best time for catching the wildlife. Coyotes are primarily nocturnal and are more scared of the kids than the kids are of them. If your kid is old enough to play outside unsupervised, they're sure as hell old enough not be bothered by coyotes.
And believe it or not, even in Phoenix there's a lot of wildlife if you'd just stop to look. Lots of cool insects, birds, lizards. I'm sure there's rabbits and squirrels as well (hint, the coyotes eat something, and it ain't bugs). Sure, you don't have anything as big as a deer, but there's a lot morde wildlife than you realize.
But you probably miss all that because you assume it's hostile out there and instead spend your evenings watching prime-time TV or playing video games.
Oh, and one last thing. Explain the exploding flashlight bombs? Let me guess, something like exploding a mailbox or the like? The people pulling those pranks like to do it when no-one is around to see them. If people are out of doors, actually using their yards and public spaces, then miscreants wouldn't be able to do the shit they do.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Actually, you are a loser by standards of our civilization.
The steps to success seems to be,
1. procreate like rabbits
2. slaughter the losers over resources
3. go back to step 1
#2 can involve wars, including civil wars. So, go on, procreate like crazy and instil hatred and/or fear for some other group, preferably a minority. This allows some preemptive defensive war against the so called future aggressors and we can then go back to happiness of step #1.
The second problem is smart people are less likely to procreate. This causes problems in efficient implementation of step #2 later on. This is why people that don't have kids are so abnormal.
In either case, our civilization is not geared towards a stable equilibrium. Stable equilibrium is loathed everywhere. Stagflation, stagnation, etc... it is all about conflicts and who can take the most without getting jailed.
I will acknowledge a problem if they can show that males are dropping out of society as a whole,
You probably have interesting work which makes you willing to pay a lot of taxes to support the system and other people's offspring, but dropping out for many guys could very well be the logical decision. Taking away there games is a bad idea: they are well trained in 100s of weapons, extreme driving and flying, spells, etc.
Oh please; you obviously haven't lived here in the last 10 years. The summers here are brutal. They weren't so bad 10 years ago, but now it's never nice outside, all summer long. It's 100 degrees even at night, mostly because of the heat-island effect. I am not exaggerating. Your claim of being nice after 5-6 is complete bullshit and a bald-faced lie.
No, coyotes don't attack people, that's not a problem. But they do eat small pets, and they make a lot of noise as I've found out recently (a pack of them recently moved in nearby here near downtown Tempe), which can be a problem if you're trying to sleep.
There's no squirrels here. Squirrels require trees; we don't have a lot of those, except for some scraggly little mesquite trees. The exceptions are places where people have planted non-native trees; any squirrels they might have would also be non-native, but I don't think I've ever seen a squirrel here. Prairie dogs, however, are very common in certain places where there's enough open space (i.e., not in subdivisions). Even the birds here aren't great; most of them are these nasty black birds called "grackles" which are not very friendly. And of course pigeons, which are everywhere that humans live it seems.
As for the flashlight bombs, the authorities are treating them like terrorist attacks. They're rigged so they explode when someone picks them up and turns them on (as people usually do with flashlights, to see if the batteries are good). This is a little different from the mailbox pranks I remember in my youth; those were specifically designed to NOT hurt people, the flashlight attacks are specifically designed to hurt people. I'm not going to say it's middle eastern terrorists doing these attacks (they seem to know at least a little more about explosives and make things that are much more destructive than these devices), but if this is a childish prank, then we have some severe problems with our youth here. Of course, with all the gang violence this town sees, I guess that's a given.
"They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."
That was true before porn and video games....
This alters the supply and demand balance. When guys can say "I don't need you, I've got free porn and video games", gals will find that they can't afford to be so picky and demanding. And if the women want children, they have time pressure to add to their motivation.
It hasn't been all that long since a woman's family was expected to pay to get her married off. (It was called a dowry.) I'm not suggesting a return to that practice, but achieving balance would be nice.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
For whatever reason, a lot of society still sees men as needing to be as they were back in the old days. They want equality in terms of men and women in the workplace, law, and all that but not relationships. Men are still seen as needing to be providers to fulfill their societal contract, though women no longer need to be mothers.
You can see it in courtship too. It is still exceedingly rare to find women who will pursue men. It is expected that men should go after women. They should court them, ask them out, initiate the relationship. This comes from back when women were property, as it was very literally a case of a man courting a woman, or more properly her family, and then purchasing her as a wife (with a dowry).
While that's all thankfully long gone (in our culture at least) the remnants remain. Men are expected to do the asking, to take the emotional risk and women, being their own person now, have the option of accepting or rejecting. The situation is not often reversed. If it is, then the woman is seen as self confident, empowered and it is a good thing. However if she doesn't want to do that, just wants to be passive and wait for a man to make the move, that's ok.
However a man who wants a women to initiate? Well there's something wrong with him! HE clearly isn't properly socialized, he's a loner, etc for not wanting to put his emotions on the line and risk rejection.
It is changing, in my purely unscientific observation, but it is slow as many societal changes are, and we have retards like this fighting against the change, telling everyone "You should act like you did in the past! That is the only way you are acting right!"
we have too many people. Population growth needs to level off if we are to have a sustainable future. I don't want to see that through draconian population control measures, I'd rather see it through people self regulating.
There was an interesting recent TED talk on world population growth. The numbers the guy presents say we're just about to reach steady-state in number of children worldwide, though as the world's population pyramid fills up the overall number of people (children plus adults of all ages) will take a few more decades to level off at around 10 billion. The number of children per woman worldwide has plummeted everywhere except sub-saharan Africa. If you don't want to watch the talk, you can at least see this animation (after it loads, click play). Watching China is particularly interesting. There's been a huge shift towards fewer children in the last 30 years, and we're just about down to the replacement rate, on the whole.
Who's got time for that stuff when there's so much to do on Slashdot??
No sig for you! Come back one year!
Minor nitpick: "fiancee" (really fiancée) indicates an engaged woman, while you used it to refer to your engaged man. "fiancé" indicates an engaged man. The extra vowel makes it feminine. For some reason extra vowels are often feminine--eg. girl's names in English often end in vowels while boy's often end in consonants.
I know this because some relatives made the same mistake you did on their wedding invitations and it got pointed out.
I've seen that talk, I'm a big Rosling fan. I share much of his vision of the future and a big part of that is a level population. Well to have that we need one of three things:
1) A situation where everyone pairs off, has precisely two children, and more are only had in exceptional cases to replenish people who are dying out too fast for various reasons.
2) A draconian government system where total number of births are monitored and each family is told how many children they must have and aren't allowed to have any more.
3) A society where it is acceptable to have as many or as few children as you like, and those that choose not to have them offset those that wish to have more. Where having or not having children doesn't make you good or bad or productive or not, it i just a simple choice you make.
We are heading towards #3 in most countries and I think that's great. People just seem to be able to self-moderate. The majority of people will get married and have a few kids, 1-3 probably. A minority will have more, a minority will have none. It all ends up being roughly in balance (this is not a situation that requires precision balance).
However then we have people who want to try and roll that back, who want to make men out to be useless, selfish, perpetual children, etc if they don't choose to be fathers. They want them to be looked on as societal outcasts, deviants, so that nobody will choose that life.
Well if we do that, it will probably lead to population growth unless we are willing to get draconian. If having kids is what is socially required of everyone, and we don't control the people who want to have more, then we'll have growth.
I want to see a future with a stable population, where everyone has at least the necessities of a good life and preferably a good deal more than that, and I want to see it happen in a way that preserves individual freedom of choice.
Way before. Back to that garden (whether real or metaphor).
Maybe before that, even.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
There's a bright side, it does ease my anxiety over world overpopulation. Why wait for a pandemic to stabilize our population? Lets do it the fun way, with more porn and videogames! On a side note, it would seem pornstars are the exception, as they are actually having more sex, not less.
I learned a good part of my communication skills on the internet.
I learned a good part of my problem solving skills playing video games.
I think there's something called individual choices being made here.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
[...]
I'm trying to figure out if there's a hidden message here, ...
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
Having said that, long ago I found a girl who I can talk about it freely, as she is into porn and video games herself. It didn't stop us from falling in love, having sex, then breaking up, staying friends... the usual relationship stuff. However I admit that there are much more people, with whom I don't know what to talk about. It's all about finding the right people, not about living your life in a social acceptable style.
Gaming and porn are just another way of having fun. The world would be a much better place if people stopped telling other people what they must do with their lives.
Maybe what I want to say is, ...
are you two sure you haven't met each other?
I mean, like, you aren't engaged to each other or anything?
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I should start by saying I generally agree with you.
1) This will never happen. I'm gay and I'm not going to pair off (with a woman) and have precisely two children. I haven't ruled out the possibility of a surrogate or adoption someday, but that's a separate issue and would require a woman to have 4 children, 2 of her own and 2 for me.
2) I actually don't find China's 1-child policy draconian. I wish India had implemented something similarly effective years ago. It's not as if couples can't have any children, and there are quite a number of exceptions. Certainly there are negative consequences, but the alternative of overpopulation is truly terrible.
3) It's really convenient that people in developed nations seem to want to have just enough children to replace themselves, on average.
Over 2000 years, even a 0.1% annual population growth rate still results in a 7.38 times larger population than you started with. This situation actually does require precision balance in the long term.
DO we really need to keep reproducing at our current rate?
if everyone's happy- what's the big deal?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Personally I think the problem has a whole lot more to do with all the ways that the social and legal system is so skewed towards putting women above men in just about every way.
Its so bad now that just the word of one bad date can leave guys criminalized and/or economically and socially screwed for the rest of their lives.
Its hardly surprising that many guys don't even want to take the chance.
Reproducing is not that important. But if men can satisfy their sex drive without women, the parasites lose a great deal of power. Can't have that.
I agree with a part of what you say, except that
"great catches" aren't found. They aren't caught, either.
(I was about to say they are made, but, no, not that, either. Heaven help me, what was I thinking?)
Now that you have me started --
Good relationships are built with mutual effort. That means initially awkward people learning how to relate with each other.
I learned a lot of my social skills on the internet. I learned a lot of my problem solving skills playing video games. I learned a lot of self-control figuring out how to avoid getting sucked into porn.
I still have a long ways to go on all fronts, before I'm perfect.
My wife is jealous of the computer. She has reason to be, I think. She has a right to be. When she demands that right, it is self-destructive, near as I can tell. But I'm trying to learn when I should give and when I should stand my ground, and when I should show a deaf ear (while secretly listening, to be on the safe side, although that bugs her more than my not listening at all). You have to have good defenses, and you have to have the sense to figure out when not to use your defenses.
There are a lot of individual choices involved. Building requires keeping a good attitude, and it also requires a bit of letting the tearing-down and rebuilding happen.
I think the fear here is that the current new generation's current new thing gets in the way of growing up the old way, and the previous generation tends not to realize, now that they think they have things figured out, that the world has changed. Their kids don't have the same set of problems to solve.
Funny how grandparents seem to have patience with both the kids and the grandkids.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
after a fashion. Video games give you a feeling of reward without hard work. Porn gives your an outlet for your urges. What's that all mean? It means people have an alternative to spewing out 10 kids. If you're part of the ruling class, this scares you. Google 'Japanese Birth Rate' and see what I mean. The 1% rely on two things
1. An oversupply of labor.
2. Balkanization (aka race baiting, homophobia, or anti-unionism, it's all the same, pit one group against another so that you're the only one on top).
A massive decline in population does away with # 1 and leaves so many resources # 2 stops working. We saw this at the end of WWI/WWII when 50 million some odd young men of working age marched off to die in trenches and freed up a lot of space in our civilization. Declining birth rates are doing it now.
Oh, and love your sig.
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No different from alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs (relative to compulsive behaviors).
I think that's the reason for the excitement.
There's this discovery that addiction is addiction, whatever the addiction is.
Might as well throw in watching Pro Football, too?
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
I think that the real problem is that psychologists think too much about other people "problems"
I used to be interested in psychology, read a lot of books and stuff. I was so worried, because there was so many things "wrong" with me! I had a bunch of serious mental disorders and what not.
Then I realized that what really is wrong is their definition of "wrong". They have some stupid standard they came up with, to which everyone must confirm, or else. While in fact what you do with your life is nobody's business as long as you don't violate social norms. I mean, I understand that me coming to public park with a laptop and jerking off to Backdoor Sluts 9 can be considered a social problem. But if I do that at home, behind the closed curtains, it is nobody's business
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I wasn't logged in because I've never official made an account with you. My original comment's subject was yes. The more people live in the digital world, the harder it is for them to adapt to real life at times. Scroll up and check out the original.
As always, this looks like a bandwagon attempt to bash video games/porn. It's true that they're bad in excess, but that matches everything else. At least they're consistent enough to bash comic books and television at the same time.
Has anyone seen a study concerning how improper education ruining a generation? To be more specific, ones where students have/want to learn a vocation but receive no training or support in doing so.
So? If you don't like the results, change the equation. Why is it a better option for the college boy to keep dick in hand? Why is it a rational decision for the college girl to pursue a career path and a room full of cats or lesbianism?
What has made them decide this is the better option?
What has changed in the last few decades to make people (mostly men) decide to go their own way?
Who cares? If its own people have decided that the western world is not worth committing and sacrificing for, who says it is worth saving?
Or if you really do think it is worth saving, then perhaps it is worth looking backwards into the past and seeing what it was that motivated people to fight and live for it? Hint: I'd look into the impact unilateral divorce has had on relationships and on the impact of several generations of broken homes.
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
As though the primary purpose for men should be to provide money and genetic material for children.
Duh? What else are men for in evolutionary terms?
thegodmovie.com - watch it
As an ugly guy, porn is the closest I'm ever going to get to a female that I don't have to pay and I'm supposed to think it's wrong? The only chance I have of seeing a pretty girl naked? That it's somehow bad for me? Bullshit. Fuck the Beautiful People and their stupid, twisted moral code. Not everyone has the option of having sex with another real life human being. Yes, I know beautiful people find it impossible to even imagine and don't want to believe it, but it's 100% true.
Men are more visual. So we tend to like porn more than women do. You may as well rant about romance novel "addiction". Morality is relative. The important thing is not to violate your own moral code. I see absolutely nothing wrong with watching 2 mammals of my own species mating and there sure as hell is nothing wrong with playing games. All intelligent animals like to play. We are simply more advanced than other species on our planet and we have more sophisticated ways to play. We don't have to chase each other around and fake fight each other for fun. We've advanced beyond that. Hopefully as time goes on we will have even more sophisticated ways of entertaining ourselves.
Is having sex with a real girl better than porn? Duh! You don't need some study to figure that one out. Back in the olden days when I had a girlfriend I didn't watch porn nearly as often. I had my own free porn actress right in front of me. It was great, but not everyone is lucky enough to be born beautiful and have that kind of thing for most of their life. Also you can claim anything human beings value is harmful by calling it an "addiction". Yes, "addictions" are often not healthy. Doing anything too much is probably not a great idea. Is that supposed to be some surprising scientific discovery?
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
http://vimeo.com/12915013
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Yeah, the Phoenix area pretty much sucks. Scary. Too much meth and right-wing loonies and religious fanatics. I left that popsicle stand.
In Phoenix, that Popsicle stand can mean the difference between life and death.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
People used to develop their sexual identity in isolation. A person's sexual tastes, fetishes, kinks, and behavior was almost entirely unique. Every one was slightly different. Now they are all the same, as they all see the same thing during their developmental years.
Combine that with a society that infantilizes young adults, and you get a terrible, vapid, boring mix.
We're doomed! Our population is dangerously low, and everyone plays video games! And correlation is causation, too! Everyone who plays video games/watches porn is actually a desensitized zombie that doesn't know how to function in society!
Stop enjoying things that I don't enjoy...
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Gawd.... I hate you. I "chose" to reproduce and I hear nothing but bitching on a constant basis. It's great, really it is. I promise. I have numerous accomplishments, a house, I'm a great dad, I'm nice, I pull off everything without worrying or stressing out, and I hear nothing but bitching and complaining about everything. I can't do anything right! It's awesome! Gawd....I hate you.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
some of which are horribly degrading and may affect his outlook on women and sex.
Does he by chance have trouble differentiating reality and fiction? Because I don't think most people do.
You could solve this quite easily by explaining that porn isn't reality.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Don't blame your inability to get a date on porn and video games! Maybe people just don't want to date people who write long papers blaming their inadequacies on anything other than themselves! Try being a better human being and maybe you'll be able to get a date!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
boys ARE socializing less and withdrawing more.
They are?
And why does it matter? Perhaps they just doing things they enjoy?
but i do think that they are potentially addictive in the same way that many other things are
Yeah, like... things that you enjoy. That could be sports or any number of things. I think it's only a problem if it prevents them from doing things that they enjoy. That doesn't mean things that you want them to enjoy.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I think this is less an issue of games/porn making men socially awkward, and more a matter of games/porn giving men something to do instead of learning to not be awkward.
Tell me this: how many teenage boys do you know who are utterly socially awkward? Those of us old enough to remember when not all (or most) teenage boys had easy access to games/porn will recall that teenage boys--with a few exceptions--are awkward by default. As we get older, we (are supposed to) spend time with girls/women, wherein we learn to be more confident/attractive to the opposite sex, as well as figuring out how to not be complete social dunces in other arenas. We learn how to (temporarily) set aside our male angst (sexual and otherwise) when appropriate, so we don't seem repulsive to anyone who isn't similarly "afflicted."
So, what video games and pornography do isn't making men/boys awkward socially (including, but not only with women/girls), but it allows those of us who get too into games/porn to avoid learning how to not be awkward.
Please note that I'm not saying that video games are "evil," or that this is unavoidable for those who want to step outside their comfort zones once-in-a-while. (I personally think that porn is always at least somewhat degenerate--no matter how attractive it may be to us with overflowing testosterone; but that's not a point I care to discuss here, and is irrelevant the current point.)
Thus, along with the problems mentioned in the article, there is also a cure: find a way to hang out with some real, live females! This is, and will likely always remain, an age-old problem that's simply a bit exaggerated under current circumstances. Sure, some of us here are in the "geek in mom's basement" category; but I doubt that most of us really are, no matter how well we identify with that predicament.
So when my kid says, "Dad, I want cake for breakfast," I should just trust him?
"If you make it yourself."
I don't care for forcing people to eat certain things.
and let him form opinions and reach conclusions about sex and women and socializing because he's "old enough," and I should "trust him"?
Sure, why not? Do you think him to be an imbecile? That's not true in all cases, you know.
It's a parent's job to set limits and boundaries that the child is not sufficiently mature enough or forward-looking enough to set for himself, and teach him WHY those boundaries and limits and self-discipline are important.
Which, for many parents, the "why" will probably amount to "because I don't like it."
is the appropriate response to a kid being exposed to porn (likely long before he's actually exposed to any serious sexual situations) is just ludicrous.
Yeah, because porn is Pure Evil. Oh, wait, no such thing has ever been proven (that I know of)...
I don't believe most children believe that video games are reality, and for the ones that believe porn is reality, all it takes is an explanation. Keeping them in a bubble is the exact opposite of that. After all, if it's true that they believe that porn is a good dose of reality, and they find it on their own (which they most likely will even if you don't want them to), then wouldn't they supposedly get hurt if they didn't have your guidance?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
if my kid enjoyed eating an entire chocolate cake every day, should i allow that as well?
some behaviours are clearly more detrimental to his long term happiness than others.
sports keep kids in shape and help them develop important social skills. porn and video games do neither. i know which thing i would rather my kid be doing. you are welcome to let yours do whatever you please, just don't be shocked when they turn out do be basement dwellers at 30.
the problem is that it isn't necessarily your choice
Of course it is. No one else is making the decisions.
A lot of games are similar - they're designed to keep you coming back for a little fix, hoping that you'll pay a little real world cash for those boosts over and over again.
I suspect true video game "addiction" is quite low.
Porn is like that too - after a while you start to become desensitised to real sex and can no longer get it up because the stimuli you now need doesn't exist in the real world.
What, you mean some people who somehow get addicted to porn are like that? Because I suspect those cases are extremely rare.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Likewise, developing social skills is important to their future
I can see where learning to speak to people when you have no choice would be important. I cannot see where enjoying socialization is important. If you know how to do the former (and it's not difficult), chances are you won't be impeded by the latter.
Not everyone enjoys real-life socialization, and not everyone will do it by choice.
Thank goodness there is school at least.
It's just a shame that the public schools in the US are awful places that rely on rote memorization and teaching to the test.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
We are all at an age where we should be settling down and forming those long term commitments
"should be"? Who decided that? What if someone has no desire to do so? It's just not necessary.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
if my kid enjoyed eating an entire chocolate cake every day, should i allow that as well?
Should you? I don't believe in "should." Anyway, that depends. I wouldn't really care if he could assemble the ingredients himself and then make it. But he probably couldn't, so it's a non-problem. I sure know I wouldn't want to go out and buy ingredients every single day. And I wouldn't, so he'd probably do without that.
some behaviours are clearly more detrimental to his long term happiness than others.
And it depends on the person whether or not those behaviors really will be detrimental. Some people don't care much about being fat or unhealthy. Some people don't like to socialize willingly.
sports keep kids in shape and help them develop important social skills.
Truly? Only until they've stopped playing sports. Do you know what I did when I was forced to play sports in gym class? I stood there and did nothing. Not because I was afraid of anything, but because I had no interest in sports.
Exercise also helps keep people in shape. If that is their goal, then exercising will also suffice. Enjoying socialization isn't necessary.
you are welcome to let yours do whatever you please, just don't be shocked when they turn out do be basement dwellers at 30.
That assumes I'd let them stay at the house. The biggest lesson they'd learn is that your actions have consequences if they failed to do what needed to be done.
That said, doing whatever they please would never come into the equation. But I don't see video games or porn to be a problem. I think only people (who I'd say are paranoid) that think addiction is everywhere believe that.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Meanwhile, the world population is nearing 7 billion. We men have 99 problems, but fucking ain't one of them.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
for every guy i know with a 'problem' with (addiction to) video games, i can name a girl that is as well... perhaps not the same kind of game (rarely the rpg or shoot-em-ups that boys like) but still severely addicted nonetheless.
So let me get this straight. For essentially the last 50 years we've been teaching children 'Don't have sex, it's dangerous!!' and, 'There are gangs and crime outside, you shouldn't be on the streets at night!'. And now that people have found something to do with their time while they are busy not having sex and not going outside and socializing at night... it's somehow a bad thing? Now all of a sudden it becomes "The kids these days, they never go outside and enjoy life and their environment. They never have real interactions and relationships with members of the opposite sex!!" Make up your mind already, this is what you wanted remember? Or psychologists like Zimbardo (an idiot, I took his class at Stanford) could just quit caring and realize that people are just going to do whatever the fuck they want with their time. It's not like the planet is underpopulated or something. If some folks want to jack it and play video games their whole life, who cares-- there are plenty of motivated people out there that are doing whatever you think is Really Important(tm) for people to be doing with their time.
666 posts at the time of writing ... nice.
How can tossing off ruin you? The romans didn't use enough religious nutjobs as torches and we continue to have to live with societies that want to make you feel guilty for having pleasure in your life.
"They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do."
Porn teaches you how to interact with women "Suck my dick bitch now get down and let me bust on your face." What is so hard about that (besides the fact it is offensive and the majority of girls are not facial fans)?
All quite rational decisions on their part. Why work when what you earn will simply be stolen from you to pay for the Baby-Boomer's retirement? Why build anything when it can just be taken away by corporate yahoos who patent your ideas or do copyright laundering to steal your work?
Makes much more sense to relax, play some games and hang out...
Maybe you should consider the consequences of disincentivizing an entire generation?
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
...it's how people should relate to one another.
Or perhaps, have just found a new way of reaching porn addicted videogamers.
You're going to have to convince me that if we don't like people, that you need to interact. The words "normal", "typical" always pop up, but that's mostly irrelevant. If you are unhappy in this condition, then you need to make a change.
There is too much pressure to socialize, it's not for everyone.
If only this guy were right!
Imagine going to 10 or 20 years with no babies. This would be the best thing that could ever happen to the world, and it would delay the inevitable resource failure that always occurs with massive population growth. There will soon be 7 Billion people on the planet (yes, that is with a BIG B). A generation without babies would relieve economic and resource pressure greatly without the intervention of disease or starvation or war. We can only hope that this author is right -- even though biology and nature observably prove him wrong.
The Slashdot crowd is a good audience for the math of this whole thing. Fact: A single bacterium with unlimited space to grow and an unlimited food supply can reproduce enough to equal the weight of the Earth in just 72 hours (cell division every 30 seconds). Try it yourself. Post the code in this thread. I will if I get time this afternoon.
Anyone who has done big "O" notation knows that exponential growth is second only to factorial growth and that the rate quickly exceeds whatever resources are allocated. However, no one applies these numbers to the world we live in. Sooner or later, the resources must be exhausted. So, a generation that does not have kids would be a welcome break from our bounding dash for the abyss.
Someone will inevitably argue about the problems this could cause. Yeah, old people might have to work, but the real effect will be that employers will have to hire experienced people instead of ignorant college kids. Employers and teachers have the most to lose. Employers because they exploit young people for cheap labor, and teachers because their jobs depend on children. But all of these considerations are miniscule when compared to global starvation or war or both.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
I think they made a movie about you. Have you released your inner Tyler Durden already?
Porn and Video Game addictions are very real problems.
no, they aren't. they're fallacies designed by certain people with something to lose if an activity not involving them is chosen. porn and games are just easy targets.
Excellent point.
HAHAHA! You must be joking.
Human beings are social creatures, and anyone who can manipulate a social situation (which is what a smooth talker really is) will always, always clearly have the upper hand.
...and that women would treat men with respect instead of demanding they act according to feminine ideals and worldview.
as opposed to ignorant anonymous cowards who also refuse to look at this objectively, with nuance. most people prefer real to fantasy, but when real starts to suck that much for a lot of people, then something's wrong with the society itself...and the blame for that is clearly on the shoulders of the most popular, well-adapted people who run the show.
One could argue that romance novels are the female equivalent of porn - they present an unrealistic view of men that is unlikely to be found in the real world, and women who read a lot of them are setting themselves up for relationship failure.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
yes, severely negative ones, at least by today's definition of 'strong female.'
Tried that. It's too hot to bike in the morning. 100+ degrees is TOO FUCKING HOT. Why is this such a problem for you fucking assholes to understand? And NO, IT DOESN'T GET COOLER AT NIGHT.
You are full of shit and a liar, or you haven't lived here in the last 10 years. I am not exaggerating. 120 degree weather is common here now; it wasn't 5+ years ago, but it is now. Crime in central and west Phoenix is sky high, and much of it simply isn't reported. East valley isn't nearly as bad, but there's a reason locals here say "don't go to the Avenues". This place is worse than Detroit in many areas. Try living in Maryvale or Sunnyslope and see if you still think it's so fucking great.
I grew up in a small town in Nevada and other than the gang activity everything was the same. We still went outside. We also played a shitload of video games, but it's not like you have to hide in the house if it's 100 degrees. 120 yeah, but that doesn't happen for very long, even in Phoenix.
Others have already pointed it out, but some pretty gigantic assumptions about male-female relationships in your post. The same things you say about men could also be said about women? They have porn and sex toys, too. What's the difference between men and women to you? What's a woman's need for a relationship other than sex and companionship? How is that any different than a man's need for a relationship?
Problem solved.
Assuming they're not total screwups (like they can hold down a decent job)
Since women make up a greater proportion of university professors, secretaries of state, justices of the Supreme Court, corporate executives, senators, scientists, athletes and attorneys general than ever before in human history, and in many of these categories doubling their representation in under 20 years, I think they are doing pretty well.
.: Semper Absurda
Mother nature, unfortunately. Men can father kids at virtually any time, but as a woman if we don't have the first kid by the time we're 30 we're behind the genetic curve. After 30 it gets much harder to have kids, and by 35 it's an invitation for birth defects.
Of course if you don't want kids you don't have to settle down quite so soon, but for health purposes you should make a decision fairly early. Otherwise it's IVF and praying that your kid comes out okay.
There is no need to have children or even be in relationships. There is no "should" there. Many people may want to have children, but I also believe it's perfectly valid to never want to have any. That's what I meant.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
expand your darwinian analysis to include the other traits these 'adept' people have.. I guarantee it's not as pretty as society says it is.
It might also have something to do with the "biological" and "sociological" time to "best marriage point" don't line up any more.
Until about a century ago it used to be that sexual maturity and the age where marriage and then sex was socially acceptable lined up more, at about 16-17 years.
But these days, when forever what dietary or other reasons the sexual urges kick in sooner and sooner, but it is only socially acceptable to actually have sex, or even get married later and later then of course entire generations will turn to porn and other distractions to have a vent for them.
It's clear that masturbation has an impact on how we think of women.
Commenters, I realize this study might miss some important points, but please don't reject it out of hand. We do need to stop watching porn. It's just not needed. You won't even miss it at all.
yet your post lacks any justification. it's not men's fault women aren't happy with them. enough of this feminist 'concious men' garbage.
...from Zack Parsons. Nothing's really changed all that much.
I think a lot of guys would be socially awkward enough on their own without porn and videogames making it worse. One guy I watched decay into a husk of a man, fading away as he descended deeper into the madness that is WoW. 15 hour WoW days were not uncommon. Then again, he was a greasy, awkward nerdy kid who had lots of acne and long unkempt hair, so... how much of it was because of WoW and how much of it was unavoidable? He was probably cursed from the get-go, sadly.
You must be new here.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
If it hasnt allready been posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=_annotation_263672&feature=iv&src_vid=zif0_60b3WU&v=wSF82AwSDiU Its a TEDx talk from this year of a real science study with MRIs on how porn and games (or any addiction from novelty) is ruining our brains.
When I read "regular porn users are more likely to report depression and poor physical health than nonusers are". Sure, what do you do when you are depressed? You watch porn. So depression cause people to watch porn. Though that is better than suicide.
Seriously, ... WTF?
Guys do Action Videogames and Porn, sometimes excessively, girls do their hair, play The Sims and Farmville, read braindead Fashion Zines and spend bizar amounts of money on Fashion and Cosmetics. Sometimes excessively.
At least so goes the cliche.
If a generation is being missed due to decadence, it's because of decadence with men and women. I call bullshit on the GP.
In my experience women are becoming just as socially awkward as men. Just as many women sit in front of the Web on meeting plattforms clicking for their phantom prince lover and behave accordingly strange when you meet them in public.
That may be a phenomenon about societies becoming rich with resources and technology, but it sure does not just affect men, that is guaranteed.
If find that my girlfriend manages her moods much better when I'm around to cushion them and I also find that my sexual frustration dimishes to zero when she takes care of me. Porn becomes boring and uninspired and games are much less interesting than cooking or dancing with a lady that actually cares about you as a man. That's my experience anyway.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"Video games give you a feeling of reward without hard work." Is this really the case, or is it the opposite? Two quotes: "We're witnessing what amounts to no less than a mass exodus to virtual worlds and online game environments." Edward Castronova "Here's the big idea. For active online gamers real life is broken. It doesn't make any sense. Effort isn't connected to reward. The path forward is confused, convoluted, and contradictory. Worse, there's a growing sense that the entire game is being corrupted to ensure failure. So, why play it?" http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/03/online-games-superempowerment-and-reality.html IMHO _VERY_ interesting insights. The blog (not mine btw), is outstanding.
Joystick Tragedy :(
For a somewhat more interesting look at Internet porn and males, this talk by Cindy Gallop is pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oliuLf7-30 Do note that is 13 minutes long and outside of the porn-saturated attention span of most males.....
110 is the typical temperature here in the daytime during the summer. 100 is what it cools down to at night. Your small town doesn't have the heat island effect.
My impression of MMORPGs is that 90% of the players are men. I never found those a good place to meet women. Hearing of a woman addicted to WoW is like hearing of a woman who sees male prostitutes.
I've also heard that more women than men are obese. Obviously, most men prefer women near a normal weight. It's hard to be enthusiastic about chasing a woman who is so overweight you wonder if she's going to keel over from heart disease in her 50s. I am of the opinion obesity is not the fault of the afflicted, and that it is more of an environmental issue caused by chemicals such as Bisphenol A, fast food, overly car oriented city design, and things like that. So I am willing to date overweight women. Whatever the reason, there's an imbalance. Once the obese of both sexes are removed from the picture, there aren't enough women left for the men.
I also wonder how much China and India's preference for boys has hurt men's prospects even in the West. Too many men, not enough women. I'm sure there's some spillover. We also have not had a big war since WWII. We can't anymore, not with nukes. Wars kill off far more men than women. We've evolved to conceive slightly more boys than girls, who live slightly more dangerously, dying enough that the sex ratio ends up pretty even. Has the necessity of not getting into a hot war further imbalanced the sex ratio?
Obesity is hardly the only potential disqualifier. Mental issues? Aren't women more likely to suffer from depression? Men never get a chance to meet the women whose depression leads them to take themselves out of the picture. I also wonder if a higher percentage of women are perfectly happy to stay single. And I wonder how much the climate of anti-intellectualism has hurt men's prospects. Men's intelligence has a more overt quality. Seems the old meme about glasses ought to be updated to "Women don't accept passes from guys with glasses". Once all the women who hate or avoid nerds, are depressed, don't want men, or have some other issue are eliminated, there aren't many left. Discouraging.
Chasing women is a lot of work. Women have it easy here. Men do all the leg work, while women can sit back and let the men come to them, even complain about all the unacceptable men who they wish wouldn't bug them! Some men even go as far as converting to her religion. Just the way life is. Need a thick skin to handle some of the harsh rejections. Often I get rejected out of hand for being too nerdy. Or so I think. It's impossible to really know. One woman I corresponded with for a month was a "life counselor" who decided that I was seriously messed up and the only way she'd continue to correspond is if I agreed to become one of her customers/patients! I was offended. Felt like the only reason she put a profile up on a dating site was to collect leads for her business. After meeting me just once, another woman informed me that she was deleting her profile! At least she told me, but still ... ouch! Yet another I saw a few times decided to dump me on Valentine's day. Said she "wasn't ready", despite being a divorcee. She was handing me a line of course. I have a number of ideas what her real reasons were, but I really do not know.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Instead of becoming anti-social elements, porn & video games are better.
Casteism
You know kids, back in my day we had to really *look* to find women ruined by pornography, now they're just everywhere. You guys don't know how easy you've got it.
So guys and girls are increasingly having trouble interacting socially, and the immediate assumption is that this is because there must be something wrong with the guys. Ever occured that this attitude is precisely why more guys are remaining single?
I just listened to Philip Zimbardo's TED talk... he doesn't appear to have any data to speak of. Early on he buzzes through some measures where guys are doing worse than girls, but doesn't discuss absolute numbers-- then he jumps to implying that all guys are fucked (because they're not getting fucked).
He also, needless to say, doesn't have any proof that it's all the internet's fault, and not, say pollution by hormone-like chemicals, or-- a theory I've seen pushed persuasively-- the economy, stupid (roughly: guys don't bother to "grow up" because there's no where to grow to).
How do fast talking con-artists like this get to do TED talks?
(Note: Nick Hanauer, an early Amazon investor, had a TED talk censored for being a little too, shall-we say, "reality based".)
Amazing that the same types who immediately buy into global warming (science) find it difficult to believe science when it tells us something like this. Sigh. But on another note, I've often thought (as I focused on a computer program trying to get an analysis done) that programming feeds that need for novelty that drives boy-men so much, since each puzzled out block of code quickly rewards the artist when it works, but then the need to go to the next level kicks in. And documentation is such a drag on that quest for novelty ...
"There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
If you are ugly like me, poor countries may be your only chance. It's still not easy to get a pretty girl, but if you have some money and don't mind spending some on her you may be able to have a girlfriend or wife for whom you are mainly an ATM with legs.
Chicho Fumboli is fat as an elefant and looks like a monster. A monster with various facial piercings. Some of the hottest Girls on the entire f*cking planet would chop their right arm off for a chance to dance Tango with him. Every time I see him on some Tango video he's got a different hottie he's dancing with. And he isn't very rich either, btw.
It's the way the PUAs say: Attitude is 90%, the rest is a relatively trivial set of little things - hygene being one - and a little attention. It's the same with men, btw. A sweet word from my GF can make my day, and a frown and a bad mood stretch because last night she didn't get her share of Tango rounds with the other guys can give me a headache - quite physically actually.
An anecdote on this:
I met a girl at a Milonga (Tango Dancing Event) in Oslo a few weeks ago and she was kinda sad, i.e. having the regular tango blues that men and women get when they're having a bad stretch or a bad night. We exchanged some words on how things were going and I could tell she would've wanted to dance with me, but rightfully she allready knew I had no interest at the time - the event was overbooked with +20 women. Easy pickings of great dancers.
Anyway, after a litte chit-chat I told her to take on the attitude of 'Tonight I'm going to f*ck your brains out, Mister!" for the dancer she was eyeing ... and for everybody else. She inmediately started smiling, catching on and started to glow. Once frustrated women - and believe me, after 4.5 years of Tango I can asure you: Women do get just as sexually frustrated as men! - get their head out of their behind and get in attitude there's nothing they can't achive with men. And guys, it's the exact same thing vice versa.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
What does that even mean?
I would say current video games maybe... because they are devoide of that kind of interaction and quite frequently devolve into hack and slash there is no love relationship dating or sex in video games porn ends up being the same way its hack and slash porn style but if you are goinh to blaim games and port you better add schools and our society for making that subject taboo. just an example: is having Prostitution a crime. social interaction and relationships should be a class in school students should be taught some dancing and karaoki and dating Etiquette and even go on practice dates.
Looks like you have got your life sorted.
But hope you don't mind me asking about the elephant in the room. What do you do for sex? Hookers? Spanking the Monkey? Not interested?
I'm serious. It has always been a mystery to me regarding contented batchelor types. Plenty of examples in real life and fiction - Sherlock Holmes, Cecil Rhodes, Richard Hannay, Field Marshal Montgomery (widowed), Hitler (married later in life - but whoops!! Godwin's Law).
tmosley wrote :- Straight women find status, power, and money attractive.
Bollocks.
I have status, power, and money, plus old-fashioned courtesy to women, education and IQ, which we are also told women like. So explain why, whenever I have ever tried a cold approach to women, I am told to fuck off. They never give themselves a chance to find out about the status, power and money. A man cannot very well carry a notice round his neck, saying like "I have a good job and a 9" dick", but a woman OTOH CAN show her cleavage and legs, things that are high up on most men's list even if they are not everything. Now I will only speak to a woman if we have exchanged introductions in writing first (ie dating club).
In case you are wondering, I don't think I am particularly bad looking either - look a bit like Orlando Bloom, I'm told, in his blond phase. Friends (male) don't understand it. The only explanation that makes sense is that I do not have an expressive face. Women hate you for that.
The three things women like first and foremost, I have found by observation and experience, is ENTERTAINMENT, ENTERTAINMENT, and ENTERTAINMENT. If you don't look like you are an entertainer from the word GO (noting that entertainers have expressive faces), forget about cold approaches.
Oh wait, no they aren't.
Before videogames, the sources of entertainment for young men tended to involve a lot more actual violence.
Honestly I wish there was more porn in videogames, esp. with S&M. So far the highlight has been that GOW3 scene where you pin the hottie under the wheel and she writhes around.
My 2 cents. Everybody is fucked up in different ways. You have around 80 years (or much less) to live, after which nothing matters. Conclusion, go enjoy your fucked up life. If you want something, go get it, or not. Peace.
Does he by chance have trouble differentiating reality and fiction?...
You could solve this quite easily by explaining that porn isn't reality.
Those making the porn are real enough. Believe it or not, those are really people you are seeing, and those things have happened.
In what sense is porn not real? Straight porn is no different from what many or most people do, in fact stuff I have done myself. The only "unreal" element is the presence of a cameraman (or woman), but the viewer is not concious of him/her. Even so, some porn I have seen on the web is obviously filmed from a tripod, so I guess it originates from amateur couples with no third party present. Nor are the "models" necessarily perfect - there is a whole genre of fat and/or ugly porn.
Perhaps you are talking about feature length porn films, with flimsy plots. They are "unreal" in the sense that the plot is fiction. However, most porn on the web is short clips of maybe up to 20 minutes, with no story, just sex. These are not "fiction" in any sense, but a record of an actual event.
There is stuff I have never done, and would not do, but no doubt some people do, and not just to make porn for the internet. It is real all right.
What I find disturbing is how and where the hell they find the women who agree to make this stuff, the supply of whom seems to be inexhaustable. Especially I have rarely found any woman who even wanted a conversation with me. I have certainly never known a woman who would make a porn film, even though I have met one or two who have agreed to tasteful "glamour" still photos. Is there some parallel society to which I have never been admitted? Are they being forced? Are they all doped up?
Im 25 years old and i never had a girlfriend. Why? It just happened that way.
Sounds a bit like me at that age. I was going crazy with sexual frustration. But I met some nice girls from about that age in dating clubs, no sex at first, but just knowing that a girl liked my company kept me sane.
i've actually tried dating sites and other means, but it doesn't really work for me for some reason.
This is nothing to do with it being dating clubs or sites, it would be no different how you met them. After the first 10 minutes talking about the dating site, conversation should move on. Try to think why it did not work. With some girls it just won't whatever you do/say, but with others it should. Tips : You need to [try to] take an interest in their life rather than tell them about yours. Don't get too serious about anything, no politics/religion/issues. Don't tell them you never had a GF or ask them what is "wrong" with you. Don't rush things, don't ask for sex on the first date, use old-fashioned courtesy, don't do anything or appear to be anything off-beat, and make them feel safe with you.
Also, don't be "overawed" by things. I thought dating clubs would be too "good" for me, only for beautiful" people, ditto speed dating; they are not. Nevertheless my first serious GF (from a dating club) was actually an ex-Bunny girl from the London Playboy Club, but was not the brash whore you might imagine - she was shy, poor and a bit low-class, and she was somewhat overawed by ME because I had a good job and education. Gorgeous figure though.
My friend who is married met his wife at a LARP 10 years ago, i tried going
I did not know what LARP was - looks like actors stuff. In at the deep end for a geek. Speed dating would be better.
Let me get this straight... Some male psychologist comes up with a rehashed theory that video games and porn are "ruining" a generation of young men, and rather than attacking his methodology, there is an enormous spewing of equally unsubstantiated woman hate? There IS a lag in academic achievement between girls and boys. This is well demonstrated. That is a thing worth examining, even if you're going to get some misguided advice in the process. It's worth examining because that's fair to the youth suffering from the gap, because they're human beings. Much fairer than saying that, all things equal, boys just aren't as smart as girls, which is how the traditional reversed scenario played out. See how it's good to learn from sexist mistakes? Why this turned into some sort of outpouring of sour grapes sentiment is kind of beyond me. I'm against gender-polarizing stances in general because I think they're counterproductive to everyone involved. I don't know why you think you're making it better by blaming women for everyone's problems. We get a crazy and disheartening barrage of divisive cultural signals too. Why all this outpouring of antisocial, misdirected rage? Have you had too much video games and porn lately? ;)
Does the CNN author offer any kind of research with results supporting their theory? Or is it just someome's musing trying to find a way to make a buck off of fake science?
Is this another mercury vaccine trick that people will use to start suing the gaming and porn industries?
Finally, I find the concept laughable. There have always been socially inept boys that had a hard time connecting with girls and initiating sexual relationships with women. Have the numbers changed, or is gaming just a different boy pastime to replace pinball machines and skateboarding (and whatever your fad might have been)?
In what sense is porn not real?
Perhaps "porn isn't reality" wasn't the best way to put it. What I meant is that if they think that children who know nothing about sex watching porn is harmful because they could get the wrong idea about what sex is usually like, perhaps they should teach them that the sex in porn isn't what it's normally like rather than just keeping them in a bubble.
I was only responding to what they wrote.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Except that this article doesn't appear to be about a woman's writing.
As a feminist, I don't particularly like gender assumptions, and I don't really like the assumption that boys and men have something wrong with them if they can't or don't seek dates.
However, that there is such an overflowing animosity towards women in response to this article kind of has me taken aback. Being told that my entire gender, which obviously includes me, is a bunch of greedy worthless entitled stupid parasitic cunt bitches who should have various act of sexual violence committed against them.. them being us, being me.. by a bunch of people who know nothing of my life, my relationships, my work... It's a little scary.
Women generally don't like sleeping with people who hate them, you know?
The article, or at least this stub, isn't even about what women have directly said-- it's a sensationalist statement by a male author, stemming from the documented gap in academic achievement between girls and boys. He blames video games and porn. I think it's not so simple.
But then what do I know. I'm just a useless cum bucket who needs to shut her damn mouth, right?
Even if the article is entirely correct-- why is it only GUYS who can "connect" with women? Why, say-- just supposing here-- couldn't the WOMEN "connect" with some guys?
Its really ridiculous how all these articles and "findings" perpetually paint women as sweetness and light and guys as sex-crazed hormonal maniacs. For every (straight) porn-crazed male, there is a FEMALE busy providing product. They can't ALL be "exploited"-- after all, prostitution is regarded as the "oldest profession". Humanity ain't gonna crumble. It's made it this long and PORN and VIDEO GAMES are just the modern incarnation of the age old desire for sex and entertainment-- same as it ever was.
Well said and well met.
Technology is redefining norms. The problem with psychologists today is that comparative behavior requires comparing past and present and not starting with an assumption that norms of behavior are in flux.
If norms and social values are changing rapidly then what? There are some behaviorists out their who recognize this is the case. For example, the cell phone is making a huge impact on speech. Research is being done on language o help us better understand how to use cell phones appropriately. This type of attitude is not being conducted with respect to video games.
As technology gets adapted there are bound to be miss-steps in integrating technology into the human experience, obviously. The problem with modern psychology is the same problem with conservatives in general. That is both groups typically start with the assumption that the only "good" norm is a past, understood and proven "norm" and taking risks, making changes to achieve some new state of human experience is never a consideration. In that world then video games can only be destructive because video games did not exist in the past and these folk fit the facts to their negative bias. While evolution may take millions of years environment changes do not and anyone who is up on the cognitive sciences is well aware of the roll that environment plays in child development. The technology cat is already out of the bag and modern psychologists need to get with the cognitive science program and help us figure out what to do about it productively rather than focus on wholesale condemnation of that which they despise and do not yet understand. Video games will be with us as long as technology is. Get over it. Psychologists would be better served helping companies like Blizzard produce a healthier environment.
One thing to keep in mind is that those men who in the past you felt were ready to "settle down and form long term commitments", weren't. A lot of the marriages over the past were purely because of social pressure to "Be" married, or to get married so you could finally get some sex. Note, that the result was a very high divorce rate (Once divorce was legalized). If you want a happy relationship that will last a long time, find someone who -is- ready to settle down. If these people (both Men and Women) aren't? Then leave them be, because forcing them to participate isn't actually creating any kind of special long term bond... it's just going to form feelings of resentment.
I like your perspective. I wonder if you would care to comment on the female technological craze:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/vibrator-sales-sex-toys-women_n_1501352.html
Business is booming -- for the sex toy industry. It seems that erotic accessories are poised to become some of the world’s most popular gadgets, right up there with smartphones. The Daily Mail reported that UK sales of sex toys are projected to soar above £250 million this year (approximately 403 million dollars). And as of May 2011, consumers were spending an estimated $500 million a year on these products in North America, according to Scientific American.
Are vibrators becoming too much of a good thing for women? It might help explain why both men and women in this country are content to stay in their respective
corners and not come out swinging. Your take on women having no partners struck me as rather odd, as if women were helpless. They most certainly are not. On the other hand, if Steely Dan is satisfying them then that is more believable to my way of thinking.
The other thing to consider is that historicial marriage was based upon men subjugating women. That's not the case today but courtship rules have not kept up with the times. I'm just pointing out a systemic deficiency that both men and women are up against. In the words of Zoey to Captain Reynolds on Firefly, "Are you enjoying your own like bio-slave?" is no longer an option.
In all the same ways that zippers, machines, contraceptives, music, and drugs ruined all the previous generations.
Dominating a social situation is not just about talking, it's about other social cues (eye contact, affable attitude, sense of humor, and generally being likable) and even content (i.e. knowing what to say and what not to say, being able to speak intelligently or even bullshit intelligently, and even knowing enough to sometimes just shut up).
I just think that it's a function of emotional and social intelligence on the part of the person doing the socialization -- a battle of wits, if you will, between them and the recipients.
Yet, can they avoid doing what they say men have done to them? Can they avoid succumbing to the lure of using their power to repress/ridicule/destroy men as they 'redefine' masculinity?
"Make me laugh, little man." --Hillary Clinton to epyT-R
.: Semper Absurda
I'm sure she'd say that...and it would prove my point: women are no better than the male archetypes they whine about, and thus deserve no extra sympathy. Hypocrites deserve no respect, male or female.
You're right about the heat island, but you're still overstating it quite a bit. 110 is not the typical high during the summer, and 100 is not the typical low, not even last year. The highest it got last year was 114, and the average high temp June-August was 106. The average low temp was 83. I'm not positive, but I think the NOAA station is at SkyHarbor which would be pretty accurate for temperatures downtown.
Check it yourself.
Thank you for your post.
Where'd you get those numbers? Your own link shows the high in June last year as 115, July 118, August 117. The average low temps aren't really useful, because it doesn't get to that low until 5AM, meaning it's still around 100F for the entire evening (check out the hourly observations), so it's still too hot to be outside even as late as midnight.
Hypocrites deserve no respect
Along with ludicrous zealots, completely detached from reality.
.: Semper Absurda
That's a good question, not sure what I did there, maybe I put in 2010?
I guess we just disagree on what is too hot to be outside. We used to play basketball when I was a kid all day every day, even when temps got 100+. If you're sweating and stay hydrated you don't really notice it after awhile. I did yard work as a teenager and *that* was much, much worse. But riding a bike or playing sports wasn't too bad. You get used to it really quickly if you stay hydrated and take breaks in the shade.
I spent a few weeks out of the year in Yuma and it was noticeably worse down there, though. That heat wave that hits around 10:30-11:30 is pretty vicious. And it was in the 1990s so temps were a bit lower than they are now.
I'm gonna stick with my "modern kids are pussies" line, though. Much more satisfying.
What is ruining this generation are chick flick's idealizing how men should be which cause women to have higher expectations in spite of the reality of what is offered to them for mates.
No really, I think it is obtuse to suggest that all men are consumed by porn and video games, to the point where they are no longer interested in (or worthy of) breeding. Its generalizations like that turn something into a non-issue that forces a social response that is not required.
The bottom line, is the birth rate dropping? No? Then move along because men are still finding ways of impregnating women in between long sessions of masturbation and gaming, and I am sure it from using turkey basters. Remember, sex is only consumes 2 - 4 minutes of a guys day, that still leaves a lot of time for gaming and porn.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
I'm don't see myself as a gamer, but I think games are great, especially NFS and other adrenaline rushing racing games. And about the porn, I think porn sucks, because it limits the imagination power and a romance killer. Imagination is Always better than Reality!
The idea that society is getting collectively dumber is absolute horseshit. Since the dawn of time, people have been saying that the 'latest generation' is somehow worse. The old clichè is that the children don't respect their elders. They consistently point out the same flaws in the current society that they would have found in that of the past if they had the same perspective. Do you know what people did before computers and video games? It was by no means any less stupid or inane than what today's children are doing now. It was just them doing it, so it was someow better. It must be nice looking in from the outside.