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Fedora 17 Released
ekimd writes "Fedora 17 aka "Beefy Miracle" is released. Some of the major features include: ext4 with >16TB filesystems, dynamic firewall configuration, automatic multi-seat, and more. Major software updates include Gnome 3.4, GIMP 2.8, and GCC 4.7. The full feature list can be found here. Personally, I still find Gnome 3 to be an 'unholy mess' so I'm loving XFCE with Openbox."
Good heavens, what an unfortunate name for a Linux release.
That is honestly the worst release name I ever heard. It sounds like a porn star nickname.
Otherwise known as the "BM" edition. Lame...
I actually grew to like the alt-tab part pretty quickly.
I still miss 'window title search' and 'show all windows for an app' that I had in compiz.....
Also, only allowing configuration through themes and extensions is frustrating...
You may wish to try Cinnamon from Mint, last time I tried it was a tad incomplete though.
Can't stand unity either...... Gnome 3 is the less of the two evils.
There is also always KDE and xfce...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You do realize that the Fedora leadership expressly does *not* want to be part of corporate applications right? From a business perspective, the goal is to have a research and development strategy that takes advantage of enthusiasts willingness to have a less stable environment to test and develop features and concepts that ultimately land in 'Red Hat Enterprise Linux', the most popular 'enterprisy' instance of Linux there is?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
At least for the server side of things, nobody in their right mind runs Fedora on production systems anyhow.
Write failed: Broken pipe
That wouldn't be 'fixed', that would be regressing for the sake of people who hate change just because it is change.
If you are terribly bothered by it:
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/
But once you get used to it, it is a much more scalable mechanism to deal with many windows. Plenty of stuff in Gnome3 frustrates me, but this one I think they got right.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Red Hat is the corporate application. Fedora is the comunity project that gets funding from RH.
Isn't this supposed to be news?, who cares what you think about Gnome 3?
I don't say it might not be a valid discussion (which has been made over and over), but just stating that you hate it on the summary as you do seems to be very out of place.
No, because CentOS would be a far better choice.
Oh, the huge manatees...
Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
More like Holy Meat by-products!*
*their mascot is a hot dog
I guess the question being, what scenario is more productive? If you have small window count of about one window per app, then you probably wouldn't have even *noticed* the difference. If you have a large window count, then how does alt-tab, alt-above-tabe impede productivity? Other arguments I can buy (e.g. encouraging many across-the-screen moves, hiding dock making it more difficult to be 'discoverable', and many other criticisms of gnome 3), but other than 'it's different', I see no technical advantage to alt-tab versus what they provided.
I currently have a modest number of windows open (11). To get to a particular window as a test, it took me 4 keypresses. For me to have gotten to it without hierarchical task switching, it would have taken me 8 keypresses given the current layout. Also, by masking the windows of other apps, more screen real estate is available to preview the windows I want.
Mind you, this is still all significantly worse than a hypothetical scenario with window title search or 'show only windows of a certain app' in 'activities view', where you can both be more precise in query and have more real estate to show the results.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Either you do a window-based DE or an application based, Gnome 3 went for application based. I happen to like it, a lot. this includes alt-tab behavior. If you happen do not like application based, then you should probably not try to turn Gnome 3 into one, there are other choices for you.
I think Gnome 3 is the best thing that happened to the *nix desktop for a long time. The navigation is fast if you know how to use it. I do use a few extensions, like static workspaces (altough I think this is included in 3.4). It also happen to be quite fast, running it on my ion2 netbook, no problem. Have never used a composition desktop before, they where all to slow. Gnome 3 changed that.
Gnome developers have always had cojones and done things which may not look to be the right thing, in the end they come out winning, this time should not be an exception.
... which is always fun to talk about. Fedora is really pushing the state of Linux forward more than any other distro. /usr to make the filesystem more sane.
systemd for faster boot and starter reactions to changes (eg USB device plugged in). Moving every thing to
Single window gimp! And lots more.
Already 3 people tried, and likely more will try to package everything. But Unity is evolving too fast, and no one want to take care of compiz.
One thing I'm wondering - how improved is their package management? As I've noted in the past, apt-get is far more advanced, and on the BSD side of things, so is PBI. So has Fedora/Red Hat done anything to enable packages in rpm format to be more easily installed, as in not run into dependency hell?
Also, how does Fedora compare w/ other rpm based distros, such as Mageia, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and so on?
For me, switching between 2 or 3 xterms or browsers and another app window is a very common scenario. I will continue using a window manager with proper window management.
Looks like Unity and Cinnamon are 2 DEs that don't exist for rpm based distros.
Actually i think it was more of a "copy macosx" behavior kind of move. It's not really bad or good in my experience. depending on the workflow one or the other might be more convenient. Since apps tend to be single window, I tend to prefer the previous switching however, but since apps tend to be single windows.. the new switching also tend to look like just the old switching, making it less of an issue.
Ah /.,... home to random misogyny and racist puns. In other news, Hooray Beer!
I still miss 'window title search' and 'show all windows for an app' that I had in compiz.....
Window title search: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/317/window-display/ shows the matching windows in the Overview as you type.
Show all Windows for an app: Maybe I'm missing something but I use Cycle through the apps with Alt-TAB, Cycle throught the windows for an app with Alt-AboveTAB. Which means to cycle through the windows for the current app, one press of Alt-AboveTAB shows the set. I use the cursor keys in Alt-TAB to navigate as well - not sure that is in Vanilla Gnome 3.4.
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The ONLY way your argument is at all legitimate is if extensions is included with the default software that comes with Gnome 3. Because it sure seems like it is needed. To chip in, the new alt tab sucks, I wish it would "regress."
"but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
Plain old xfce works just fine without any trickery. Except for the creation of custom icons. That requires a few more steps than I like, but I'll live. Its very very stable.
Thanks for that. I do wish the window previews were a bit more usably large (as it stands, the thumbnail is just too small to make out wtf it is).
The alt-tab behavior you describe is vanilla, but when you have dozens of terminals and you *know* a substring in a title, a search is more effective than traversing. If referring to it being a substitute for 'show all windows for an app', the problem being the UI in compize/kde uses maybe 90% of screen real estate to facilitate decipherable previews, where alt-above-tab uses maybe 15% of the screen real estate and the rest is pretty much unused.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Cinnamon certainly does. It's under review for Fedora at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=771252 . If you're in a hurry, you can get the .src.rpms from there and rebuild them.
...don't turn yet another Fedora release thread into a GNOME Shell argument, people. It's just a desktop. We have lots of them.
If you don't like GNOME, don't use it. You can pick GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE or Sugar right from the package customization screen of a Fedora 17 DVD install, or you can download any one of those desktops as a live spin at https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options#desktops or https://spins.fedoraproject.org/ .
If you don't like GNOME, don't use it, but that doesn't mean you can't use Fedora, or that Fedora is bad.
The Gods cried when 12.4 wasn't named Pretty Pony.
I was able to get rid of most of the dumb stuff in gnome3, and return Fedora 16 to a useful state by adding cinnamon.
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My reading comprehension is just fine. You throw around insults because a GUI dares not do things the way you expect. Rather than stepping back and perhaps considering the rationale for this decision, or maybe, just maybe offering constructive criticism you start ranting and insulting people. Immature doesn't begin to cover it. Grow up.
Or just download and install the KDE spin, or the LXDE or XFCE spin for that matter.
Someone actually likes unity? I'm amazed.
Gnome3 is dodgy, but that is what we have kde/xfce/etc for.
Speaking of GNOME3, does Fedora offer it only in Fallback mode (due to the issue of liberated GPU 3D accelaration drivers), or does it come fully featured?
Looks like Unity & Cinnamon are missing from .rpm based distros. MATE I'm guessing is still available, as is Trinity and all other major DEs
Oops, double posted - my apologies
I find whether you like gnome3 is highly dependent on how many applications you typically have open at once, with the fewer you have open the more usable gnome being.
The eeepc I'm on at present has (counts) 43 windows open, and on my desktop I can be using 100+ depending upon task. Quickly accessing the window I want under gnome3 is a real pain compared to say, kde. So I just use kde.
The grandparents get by with gnome3 just fine though, they rarely have more than 4-5 things open at a time.
you bought new boxes for linux!?
:)
dude you got ripped off
i just accept everyone else's junked windows boxes and replace the broken windows with linux ones
condescending attitude
hypocrite much?
I just find that everything I do in gnome 3 takes more steps...ie more clicks, more resizing, more drilling down, and on top of it all one additional click that does nothing more then get you off that useless page that is your faux desktop. For me and the way I use my computers this is not a step forward, but two steps back. If gnome 3 was on a smart phone, or a tablet, and I ran one application at a time, it would be pretty, and get the job done. But I run this on a desktop computer with fair horse power, lots of memory, and with a BIG monitor, just so that I can have several things going on at once and see them all without a lot of dragging, drilling down, resizing, and general piddling around every time I sit down. I can do everything I need to with Gnome 3, it is just more work. Not sure what the gnome folks were thinking. I've heard it said that they were enamored with OS-X, don't know. However at work I have a very nice brand new iMac with Lion on it, and it is much easier to use and has a very different orientation then gnome 3.
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What kind of system do you have, and what size monitor? Just wondering.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Bah, you're just using their funny name as a reason to bitch about Fedora in general and praise whatever you like using.
I am not devoid of humor.
The smallest is is dual core P4 with 3gb of memory and a 22 inch flat screen monitor. The largest is a 64 bit quad core (intel) with 4gb of memory and a 27 inch monitor.
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