RIM May Need To Write Off $1 Billion In Inventory

benfrog writes "Blackberry maker Research in Motion may need to write off more than $1 billion in inventory, according to Bloomberg. The potential 'writedown' comes after RIM took a $485 million pretax charge to write down the value of its PlayBook inventory in December. RIM has said it aims to save $1 billion in operating costs this fiscal year by cutting its number of manufacturing sites and is 'reviewing its organizational efficiency' across the company, which may lead to job cuts of 2,000-3,000. Its shares have tumbled 75 percent over the past year and are down 90 percent from their all-time high."

Comments

Not Surprising

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used all 3 major platforms professionally, and BB is so far behind now it's just pitiful. Remove the Federal workforce from the client base, and BB is a memory.

Re:Not Surprising

[norfolkboy]

Not quite.

It's very popular in the UK for teens, who use BBM rather than SMS.

Other than poor chavs and kids, you're right.

Re:Not Surprising

[Anne Thwacks]

Perhaps you live in America?

Here in the UK, BB ownership is very high. However, most users also have another device.

There are two BB communities:

Teenagers, who want BBM for a variety of reasons, and remote wipe for many reasons.

Business users who want integration into corporate infrastructure.

The remaining markets are babies, the elderly and the unemployed, who are not very lucrative.

BB's current problem is that they have saturated the market with long lived devices, and are trying to sell devices to people who dont want them. They need a strategy that trades on that position instead. An old BB works fine, and there is no need to upgrade. Keep supporting the existing customers, and BB will live on, with a solid market base that will sustain them for a long time to come. Trash their customer base by abandoning the existing devices, and they really will die. Maybe they need a paid software upgrade bringing tangible improvements to the really old units?

Re:Not Surprising

[evilRhino]

They could just as easily switch to a cross-platform alternative like XMPP (Google Talk) or a proprietary alternative on a better platform like iMessage.

Re:Not Surprising

[mwvdlee]

Here in the Netherlands (and as I understand it, most of Europe atleast), WhatsApp is the current chat method, and it's available on most mobile platforms, including BB. It's still proprietary, but atleast it's practically platform agnostic.

Re:Not Surprising

[mwvdlee]

The remaining markets are babies, the elderly and the unemployed, who are not very lucrative.

And non-business-user adults.
I don't know the UK situation that well, but I think it might be an interresting market.

Re:Not Surprising

[hairyfeet]

Well maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be dumping playbooks on Woot! like HP did the Touchpads, gotta look on the bright side you know.

But RIM really deserves what is happening to them, another classic case of a company that tried to rest on their laurels instead of staying ahead of the game and now they are so far behind its practically impossible to get back on top. You might bet by with that in some businesses but tech is NOT one of those. We have seen it over and over again, Palm, MSFT with WinCE, if you don't try to stay ahead of the pack in mobile tech you simply get run over.

Re:Not Surprising

[snowraver1]

Firstly, I like RIM. I currently have a 3 year old Blackberry Tour that still works fine. It's battery still lasts for days depsite it's age. The apps are pretty crappy, yes, but that's okay for me. It workes great as a communication device, which it is.

I also recently bought a playbook (6 months ago), and it is really great! At $200 I don't understand why everyone doesn't have one. It is really a great peice of hardware, and the QNX OS is really good. In 6 months, I have had numerous application level crashes, but only one OS crash. I think that's pretty good.

I'm really looking forward to the new selection of BB phones that actually run QNX. I just hope blackberry is still in business by then... If you haven't tried a playbook yet, try one. It's 1/3 the price of an iPad and it's really great!

Re:Not Surprising

[firex726]

Isn't it popular in India for BBM as well?
Seems as a status symbol, like the iPhone in the states; everyone whose anyone will have one.

Re:Not Surprising

[puto]

Blackberry has not made a long lived device in the past two years.

Re:Not Surprising

[DG]

I have a Playbook too, and it rocks.

Agreed, at $200 it was too good to pass up.

DG

Re:Not Surprising

[PsychoSlashDot]

Here in the Netherlands (and as I understand it, most of Europe atleast), WhatsApp is the current chat method, and it's available on most mobile platforms, including BB. It's still proprietary, but atleast it's practically platform agnostic.

And it still doesn't tell you when someone you're chatting with is typing. Or when they read your messages. And it doesn't have the same attachment capacity. Oh, and as far as I can tell all my contacts get sent to WhatsApp.

I was on BB for the last three years and just moved to Android, reluctantly. There's a lot to be said for the platform, but the lack of actual, fully-functional BBM is glaring. Google Talk will do attachments, but not delivery notification. WhatsApp the reverse. There just isn't an equivalent.

HP should buy them

[Enderandrew]

HP is convinced they need to embrace the 'post-PC' world. They could actually salvage part of their 2 billion investment of Palm and Web OS. BB has a terrible platform right now and is dying, but they have a great brand name, and some great apps. Their mobile email client is absolutely the best.

If HP was smart, they'd reach out to Google to help develop Android phones and tablets with some Web OS influence (some great UI concepts actually) and a BB email client. Honestly, wouldn't that be a legit Apple killer than enterprise shops would embrace en-masse?

Re:HP should buy them

[Jeng]

If HP was smart,

They've outsourced their intelligence to the lowest bidder.

Re:HP should buy them

[Eponymous Coward]

Almost the entire WebOS team has been hired by Google. I don't think HP is doing anything with WebOS anymore.

Re:HP should buy them

[Anonymous Coward]

What is so great about the Blackberry email client? Not a troll, genuinely curious; I've owned iPhones, a Nexus One, and a Lumia 800, and email on each of them was pretty bare-bones. What does BB email do differently?

Re:HP should buy them

[PCM2]

HP should buy them? Why, to put them out of their misery? As you point out, that 2 billion "investment" in Palm was more like a bullet to the head. HP might be good at pushing cheap laptops into the consumer channel, but it has shown no real talent for products in years.

HP has this bad problem of not being able to decide whether it wants to be Apple or IBM. The problem is, it's neither and never has been.

Re:HP should buy them

[Michael Meissner]

In the past perhaps, but blackberry recently caved into demands from India to allow security to tap into RIM messages. So, I don't see them as being secure any more.

Re:HP should buy them

[Archangel Michael]

The problem with Blackberry is that it required (at one point) a server component for Enterprise. And it was EXPENSIVE (at the time). Meanwhile Apple used ActiveSync and now Android does as well, which allows for "security" that most enterprises actually need.

However, what is MISSING that Blackberry had YEARS ago was app management that is still better than anything Apple or Google offer. We are actively looking at MDM that can manage Apple and/or Android and so far, we've got nothing worthwhile to choose from. Apple's MDM is pretty good, but it is based on Apple's model, and not any enterprise.

If HP or any other company wanted the Enterprise market for Smart Devices, they could be had in a second. My guess, is the market is too fluid to build anything that will work in three years.

That, and the whole BYOD in the enterprise is really starting to take off. Why pay for smartphones when your employees will buy something else anyways (and not want what you bought)?

Re:HP should buy them

[ArhcAngel]

hp could have made WebOS work had they stuck to their guns...they turned and ran after a month just like they always have when profits weren't forthcoming.

Considering a member of Apple's board of directors still uses a BlackBerry I'd say the platform is decent enough and BB OS Ten looks to be hitting all the right chords except timeliness.

Their mobile email client is absolutely the best.

I believe you meant to say their mobile ecosystem. Their email client is good but without the RIM infrastructure it would be just another email client.

I want RIM to succeed and I still believe they can but they must execute the rollout of BB OS Ten flawlessly and convince a lot of demographics what they have to offer has value beyond an iOS/Android/WP ecosystem. A very tall order but far from impossible.

Re:HP should buy them

[Enderandrew]

That's part of what spurred the thought process. I think HP and Google could work together to integrate some WebOS UI concepts into Android to improve it.

Re:HP should buy them

[Macka]

There is nothing great about it. I have both an iPhone and a BB, and the BB email client is clunky, slow, and unintuitive by comparison. I can't even file an email on the BB into any folder I like without getting a support bod at work to enable that folder first. I hate it, and wish I could junk the thing.

Re:HP should buy them

[Enderandrew]

A few points that come to mind:

* Detailed alerting rules. I don't want every email waking me up in the middle of the night, but I can configure a rule for an audible alert with specific emails when I'm on call.
* Detailed filtering rules.
* Search that's worth a damn.
* Being able to delete all emails that fit those search results.

Re:HP should buy them

[Enderandrew]

That's their IM platform which goes through RIM's servers. The email goes through your Exchange/whatever mail servers.

Re:HP should buy them

[noh8rz3]

wf? ArhcAngel == Archangel Michael? Companion accounts for mod points? bussted!

Re:HP should buy them

[Enderandrew]

HP at this point has no identity. They tried selling off their PC division while publicly saying there was no future for the PC market, which was fucking idiotic. Way to devalue what you're trying to sell off. They abandoned their WebOS investment way too early and never captured developer interest even for a moment. They still make good servers and laptops, but they don't own those markets.

Either HP makes a bold move to salvage the mess up to this point, or they die out.

Re:HP should buy them

[mwvdlee]

Is the Blackberry any more secure than %random-smartphone% when it comes to normal email?

Re:HP should buy them

[LordLucless]

What does HP have to offer though? Google already has all the people who did WebOS. Who should Google work with at HP? The middle management?

Re:HP should buy them

[bobcat7677]

Actually it's fundamentally less secure (and less reliable for what that is worth) due to the fact that all email must go through RIM's servers instead of going directly to the phone.

Re:HP should buy them

[avatar139]

Apple's MDM is pretty good, but it is based on Apple's model, and not any enterprise.

Therein illustrating the reason why it's so good. ;)

Having worked I.T. infrastructure consulting at a variety of major companies, I can tell you that the flaw in enterprise models is that the companies that specialize in them usually end up banking on the fact that most corporate buying decisions are primarily based on perceived notions regarding business costs and marketing/sales people providing kickbacks to the people who make the decisions.

The only remotely technical consideration is whether or not the system meets various standards checklists, usability considerations are pretty much non-existent prior to purchasing, after purchasing when it becomes a factor management defers blame regarding the ensuing usability issues to the SysAdmins for not being able to support the devices people want to use as they're forced to spend the majority of their time wrestling with the implementation of the crap systems they're stuck with as a result of the whole sordid mess of a process.

That, and the whole BYOD in the enterprise is really starting to take off. Why pay for smartphones when your employees will buy something else anyways (and not want what you bought)?

Agreed, although I'll be curious to see Apple, Google, RIM, etc. try to cope with the rising popular business sentiment for a focus on providing better heterogeneous device management solution as time goes on, because for the most part the emphasis is still focused on either AD or device vendor specific proprietary solutions (which, to be fair, worked really well for RIM when they focused more on design and less on kissing carrier ass) rather than focusing on the BYOD direction in which the market is currently heading.

Re:HP should buy them

[sootman]

> Honestly, wouldn't that be a legit Apple killer than
> enterprise shops would embrace en-masse?

No.

The thing is, to dethrone a king, you can't be "about as good as" or "as good as and slightly cheaper" or "10% better in some key ways" or even "15% better across the board." You have to be a LOT better--like a night-and-day different--to overcome all the inertia of a large installed base. The last time we saw that happen was in 2007.

Apple might not have the absolute world's best email client but pretty much every major company is happy with it (and all the other stuff it does) so someone else coming out with a whole new device that is slightly better in some ways is not going to gain any traction. Apple is so far ahead (in terms of overall quality, customer satisfaction, number and quality of apps, etc.) that I'm guessing it'll be literally 5-10 years (if ever) before they aren't in the lead.*

HP and BB both tried to displace Apple once and failed. They pulled out all the stops and each managed to create products that were roughly comparable to 1- or 2-year-old Apple products. No freaking way will those two be able to put their corporate heads together and produce, in 12-24 months, something substantially better than what Apple will be producing at the same time in the future.

Tying two anchors together does not result in something that floats.

* They may or may not be actually leading now in terms of raw units out there in the world, but a) they're doing far better than any single competitor in the smartphone arena, and b) they are taking the vast majority of the industry's profits -- about 3x their one and only really profitable competitor.

Re:HP should buy them

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a complete and total moron.

Try posting about something you actually know about. It's pretty obvious to everyone but people as stupid as you that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

RIM's platform is undeniably the most secure on the market and has the certs and history to back it up.

--
Sent from your iPhone

Re:HP should buy them

[Gumbercules!!]

...they're doing far better than any single competitor in the smartphone arena...

Except Samsung.
http://gigaom.com/apple/samsung-probably-sold-the-most-smartphones-in-2011/
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/mobiles/samsung-beats-apple-smartphone-sales-20120427-1xq29.html

Re:HP should buy them

[KZigurs]

Used to be until India incident. It was hushed off so quickly that one can only really assume single possible outcome.

Agree with the notion though - as a key manager RIM's infrastructure is doing admirable job.

Re:HP should buy them

[mattack2]

But a parent post says that was IM, not email. (I don't know the details either way.)

Re:HP should buy them

[sootman]

93M vs 95M is a 2% difference, and they're comparing what Apple SOLD to what Samsung SHIPPED. Combine that with Apple actually PROFITING almost 3x more than Samsung and I'll still mark that as "doing far better."

Translation

[mr1911]

by cutting its number of manufacturing sites and is 'reviewing its organizational efficiency' across the company, which may lead to job cuts of 2,000-3,000.

No need for manufacturing sites or employees when sales have fallen off a cliff.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

The company has Research In Motion, Product Just Sitting There.

What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

I can only conclude that basically companies are just planting RIM hate and RIM apocalypse stories. I see them all the time. But yet if you actually used a Blackberry, as a smartphone (and not an App machine) it's pretty damn good. But yet we see it day after day all these RIM hate stories. Besides, why would you want, as a consumer, one less competitor in the field. Because all that means is the remaining ones will compete less, charge more, and give you less features.

Don't believe the hype planted by companies and their collaboraters in the media. Forget all the rest of the crap--if it's a good phone and you like it, buy it. And even though I use an Android phone now, I absolutely LOVED my two old BB's (old BB and that BB Bold 9700).

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[tibit]

Apparently, Blackberry-the-smartphone is not enough to keep RIM afloat. There you go.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MadCow42]

RUFKM?

Do you even have a current BB phone? I do, and I hate it with a passion, but I'm stuck with it because it's all my company supports for corporate email.

Battery life? half a day if I'm lucky.

Usability? It freezes for minutes at a time.

Apps? Really? Have you compared to any other platform like Android or iOS?

Talk about astroturfing... you're doing it pretty well.

(no, I have no affiliation with RIM whatsoever, besides being hampered by having one of their crappy devices - the 9960)

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[sl4shd0rk]

I can only conclude that basically companies are just planting RIM hate and RIM

It's not that diabolical. The press is just magnifying the generalized "shruggs" of the industry when the subject of RIM comes up. RIM has waited far too long to try and resuscitate their potential. They've been very adamant about any kind of radical change and seem convinced they can continue to do foolish things (releasing their fondleslab and *then* nixing it's Android support) and remain on life support with tax dollars from government contracts. In the end, they will probably file chapter 11 and leave the debt with the US taxpayers.

Just a guess, but this may indeed foster a fair amount of distaste for RIM.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Nexzus]

In the end, they will probably file chapter 11 and leave the debt with the US taxpayers.

I know it's hard to believe, but RIM is a Canadian company.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[epiphani]

Funny, I have a current Bold 9900, and the battery easily lasts a full day with heavy email use and several hours of conference calls. I'm not sure what you're using, but I haven't run into the issues you're talking about since the original Bold like 4 years ago.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[PCM2]

I don't hate RIM. But I do think RIM is dying. The disease is reversible, I think, but nobody over there seems to be seriously looking for a cure. TFS says RIM stock is down 75 percent from last year alone. Imagine a patient who has lost 75 percent of his body weight but keeps insisting, "I'm not sick!"

My own experience: My last three phones before my current one were BlackBerrys. But I started looking around and comparing prices and it seemed to me that other phones could provide at least most of the functionality that my BlackBerry gave me, plus more besides. I also wasn't impressed with the hardware of the current crop of BlackBerry devices. It seemed like RIM's focus had drifted from its core business market and it was trying to sell camera phones to college students. They didn't seem like they were targeting me anymore, and other manufacturers were. So I switched to Android.

I'd be more than happy to switch back to BlackBerry if they'd show me a really great phone, though. Do they have something like that in the works? I don't see it. The market doesn't seem to see it, either.

You know who you remind me of? Me, when I was a Mac OS admin in the late 90s. Back then, everybody thought Mac users were a cult. We were all convinced our platform was the best, but everybody else kept focusing on how Gil Amelio had fucked up a once-great company. We Mac fans were right, but so was everybody else. It took Steve Jobs' return to get Apple back on track. Unfortunately, I don't think RIM has a Steve Jobs.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Eponymous Coward]

I absolutely LOVED my two old BB's

And I absolutely LOVED my Handera 330 (a Palm OS device). Just like your old BB was a good phone, the Handera was a pretty good "app machine". These days, you have to be good at both. RIM is going to be a great business school case study in what happens when your market gets disrupted and you pretend everything is still fine.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[echusarcana]

I have used Blackberry, and no, it doesn't even rate being called a smartphone. The constant operating system upgrades always messed up your settings. The little keyboard was poor and always inserted double characters. The bizarre network setup routed everything through RIM.
The Blackberry was a useful device that does one particular thing well at a particular point in history. But even a cheap Android phone is a better device. Time for RIM to go.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Latest one I used was the Bold 9700. Though I saw the new 9900 and I think ergonomically it's the best designed phone I've ever used. It feels perfect for typing, wonderful keyboard, wide enough to hold but not too big to be unwieldy.

But anyway, I seriously doubt you on the battery life. I used to get like almost a week with whatever OS was pre-BB 7. And neither iOS or Android get more than half a day either anymore. iOS was like 2 days in the 4.x days (I had a 3GS too). But with 5.1, it's gone to crap.

Apps? Has everything I need. But then again, I don't have the need to play the piano or punch the monkey on my phone. I use it for productivity. And as such, BB's market has most of what I need. Not even equivalents, but the actual apps. What exotic apps do you need? No seriously--give me specifics. Otherwise I smell BS.

As for astroturfing, miss the part where I said I own an Android phone? Besides, astroturfers sign up new fake accounts and post like crazy. Look at my UID. I've been posting since Chips and Dips.

I think you just have a case of feeling like u don't look cool with your BB and being too weak confidence-wise. So u bitch and moan at how "i hate it so much but my company gives it to me so that's why I have it." Because u need an iPhone as a status symbol to make u feel better out in public.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MightyMartian]

"Good at being a smartphone" now means apps. And that's the problem. Apple and Android were late to the party, but they pushed past RIM, and now we're reaching the point where, if investors are lucky, someone will just swoop in and buy it up, rather than waiting for it to turn into the next Nortel.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Hah good 'ol Palm. I had one too (Treo). I see your point, but c'mon at least BB has the ability to do Apps and modern smartphone features. ;-) I can't use the Treo for Pandora, Dropbox, Google Maps. :)

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

I get 3-4 days up time without a recharge; 2-3 days with heavy usage. You probably need a new battery. You can just buy one and swap it out, unlike some others that you mention.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MightyMartian]

I don't hate RIM. But I do think RIM is dying. The disease is reversible, I think, but nobody over there seems to be seriously looking for a cure. TFS says RIM stock is down 75 percent from last year alone. Imagine a patient who has lost 75 percent of his body weight but keeps insisting, "I'm not sick!"

Is it curable? Activesync isn't quite what Blackberry has, but it's good enough for most things, so on the Exchange-hookup end of things, RIM doesn't have any particular edge. Yes, it could go full Android, but then, well, it's fighting in a sea of Android devices, some, like Samsung, who have been sailing these waters a lot longer.

RIM sat on its laurels during very crucial years of 2007-2010, when Apple, and then Google, began rolling over the market place. RIM utterly misjudged the market, assuming that Apple and Google would just be consumer-grade products, and RIM would always hold the corporate ground... except that didn't happen, and now iPhones and high-end Androids are all over the place (where I work, three staff in the last month have got permission to start checking mail and scheduling via iPhones or Androids, and I expect we'll probably have ten or more by the middle of summer). The dividing line between consumer device and business device has utterly melted, and RIM is so far back now that short of basically buying someone else's high end Android and slapping their name on it, I don't really see what they can do.

I think RIM will either die, or will be bought up. I don't know who exactly would buy it up, though. I can't imagine Microsoft wanting to end up competing against its own Windows offerings by buying RIM, but there is still some RIM technology that might be attractive to someone.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Ravensign]

You simultaneous ask what's with all the hate, then indicate that you use an Android phone now. It's people like your very own self, people that used to love their BB's that now don't that is causing their implosion. A real one, that the "haters" are reporting on, accurately.

Is RIM supposed to make money for eternity based on what people like you "used" to love? What kind of economic model is that? If people *exactly* like you stuck with their BB's there would be no financial collapse and nothing to report on.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Apple and Android has constant upgrades. The issue is moot. Messed up settings? Never had a problem with either BB. As for keyboard, I think you're smoking something. ;-) The Bold was terrible--too small. But the prior one, and the new bold 9900 are bar none the best in existence. I can type as fast as a computer keyboard with those suckers.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Only reason I switched is I wanted something different. I had 2 BB's over like 3 or 4 years. Just needed a change, plain and simple. I went with the 3GS after that. iOS stunk, so I went with Android. Love android too. But my next phone will be that awesome BB Bold 9900.

And other people? Please. They just buy into the hype machine that is Apple. They see "ooh shiny" and then they get bombarded with commercials during the douchey primetime tv shows. Then they see all flakey and all-about-the-appearance people at the clubs whip it out to be seen talking on it, and then they HAVE to have one.

Ever notice that they don't look to see if X program is supported or that Y program can work with a device? No, they just go "ooh that's cute" and then buy it at the cell store.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Oh boy. Some fanboy didn't like me pointing out the obvious.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[PerfectionLost]

I think you are on to something--purchased for patents. Plenty of people would want them for that, and they are so cheap these days. There was also a thought about facebook buying a phone company. I dunno that RIM is the model hipster that facebook would want, but they have atleast some talent.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[noh8rz3]

I loved my NES. Except for the part where I had to blow on the cartridges. Now I use OnLive cloud gaming, and I love that too.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[PCM2]

I think RIM will either die, or will be bought up. I don't know who exactly would buy it up, though. I can't imagine Microsoft wanting to end up competing against its own Windows offerings by buying RIM, but there is still some RIM technology that might be attractive to someone.

I think it's sitting on some lucrative patents. If someone twists my arm and forces me to say what I think might happen, I usually say licensing its tech is probably the next step. The Nokia 999, powered by Windows Phone Featuring BlackBerry.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[marcosdumay]

What good is a great smarthphone that doesn't run the one app you want?

While the phones are locked-down as they are now, the main deciding factor will be apps.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the end, they will probably file chapter 11 and leave the debt with the US taxpayers.

I know it's hard to believe, but RIM is a Canadian company.

RIM also carries no debt and has $2.1bil in the bank.

But the OP shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[thestudio_bob]

I can only conclude that basically companies are just planting RIM hate and RIM apocalypse stories.

Andriod, Apple, Microsoft and Linux fans are all going to throw you RIM fans a special concert performed on the world's tiniest violins. Consider it a "Welcome to our World" tribute concert.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[gstrickler]

The BB isn't good at 'Apps,' it's good at being a smartphone.

So, just what is a smartphone without apps? Sounds like a feature phone to me.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

I have a blackberry bold, from work. New 7.1 OS. Touchscreen, aluminum design obviously takes from iPhone. yay.

But it sucks. Partly it's a chimera, gestures on the touchscreen battle with gestures from the keypad. The phone is awkwardly sized, trying to get a landscape wide screen with a need for a keypad.

The OS is better, but still lacks basic things. They've tried hard to embed Twitter in the OS for example, but the browser is horrible. Being horrible is in fact an improvement - the old browser made me want to stick a fork in my eye.

If i buy a smartphone, i buy it for the apps. If i just want to make calls, I'll buy a much cheaper feature phone. Or a low end android.

So, built in apps: It has a killer app (BBM) that is hard to use. Its usefulness depends on network effects, and as people move away from Blackberry, BBM becomes less useful. iMessage is shows you how this should have worked from the beginning, and as iMessage gets broader adoption (any iOS 5 device, and soon OSX 10.8 will do iMessage), BBM will become even less essential, and Blackberrys also.

A standard, essential tool (browser) is horribly implemented. I'ts slow, and has a horrible interface. A Bold is too expensive and bulky to be a simple phone, and very bad at being a smartphone. Even charging is a pain now - my Bold takes more current than other BBs so a subset of my chargers don't work any more. Though iPads warn you of this, they still charge (slowly), With RIM, you're SOL. This is why they're sitting on inventory.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[PCM2]

Why do you think they always make the joke that you could put the Apple logo on a piece of shit and it would fly off the shelves?

Well... I don't really know who "they" are. I think "they" might be you, and maybe you need to get out more.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Karlt1]

You do realize that the information about write downs, poor sales, and declining financials is coming from Rim, don't you?

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[volmtech]

My son works for a major German multinational corporation. He went from a Blackberry to a smart phone. One problem he has is pocket dialing and posting auto corrected gibberish on his Facebook page.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[ppanon]

You know who you remind me of? Me, when I was a Mac OS admin in the late 90s. Back then, everybody thought Mac users were a cult. We were all convinced our platform was the best

So, back when Apple only had MacOS 9, which was the only contemporary PC O/S which still relied on co-operative multitasking? It had some nice UI design and a good UI programming interface, but it still had a fundamental O/S weakness which even Windows had eliminated in moving from Windows 3.11 to Windows 95. Apple had struggled for years in unsuccessfully trying to revamp the O/S core, and publicly pretended that preemptive multitasking wasn't important for a user workstation.That's why Apple partisans were viewed as a cult in those days; they were wilfully blind to a glaring weakness in the product.

Steve Jobs saved Apple because he brought in NeXT's O/S as the core of OS X and saved Apple from suffering the same fate of irrelevancy that overtook other companies like Commodore [Amiga] who failed to keep up with the market (on the hardware side in Commodore's case).

So establishing a parallel between two companies which have completely missed where the market has been heading, have been unwilling or unable to execute a strategy to catch up, and have an ever-dwindling devoted fan base as a result? Yep, sounds about right.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[tibit]

:( All I know is that LinkedIn spams me regularly and it pisses me off to no end. I haven't found a way yet that worked that would stop them from emailing me.

Apple of course doesn't care about enterprise, but it doesn't seem to make business sense for them to care. If it would make business sense, I'm sure as heck they'd care. I personally think it's quite cool that you can do quite serious music playing and editing on iDevices. It's cool that these days you can have a general purpose computer in your phone, with an interaction surface sensitive enough to simulate a dynamic instrument keyboard or a tracker/sequencer button array.

I do understand that RIM makes something that is supposed to fill a niche. All it'd take for a competitor to make them weep, though, would be for someone to clone RIM's email client for iDevices. Perhaps with a better on-screen keyboard than the built-in one. It's all in the software, after all.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Swampash]

I'm reminded of reports that RIM management's response to the iPhone specs at release was "that's impossible".

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[yodleboy]

"RIM also carries no debt and has $2.1bil in the bank."

And $1 billion in unsold, unwanted product sitting around that they will write off. No doubt some accounting hand-waving will take place to make this look like a great thing. $2.1 billion in the bank is more cash to waste as they cast about for a home run and a nice lining for the executive parachutes when it's all over. Obviously RIM is a shining example of a well managed company that is ahead of the curve and really sticking it to the competition...

I've had BB, I've had iPhone, and I'm finally fairly happy with my Android phone. RIM better hope their next products are the most perfect corporate phones ever in the history of ever, because they'll never be a factor on the consumer side without divine intervention.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this a joke? Are you paying attention to anything happening in the last 10 years of consumer competition? Apple is executing on hardware, software, and ~enterprise-connectable~ services to a degree that is humiliating the rest of the industry and kicking established players out to field.

iOS 2 with ActiveSync wiped BES off the map. Yes, even though ActiveSync is inferior. Yes, even though the mail experience was grossly inferior. Yes, even though blah blah blah nuts and bolts. Explain to me how marketing made that stick. Explain to me exactly how millions of people are deluded day in and day out into using Exchange on their iPhones when they could have a Blackberry for a lot less cash.

Apple's corporate offering was good enough. Maybe even 'good'. And everything else about their iOS platform was excellent enough to make 'good enough' forgivable for a great portion of the customer base. Status has precious little to do with it.

And for the love of pete, Sean John was a late 90's clothing fad. Update your references.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Kotoku]

Android apps I need for work include a full office suite, usb host control, document converter, checklist maker, photo editing apps, SSH, wireless printing, a web browser that doesnt stink, ability for 4g speeds to push and receive video.....should I go on? Blackberry isnt as productive and personally I cant type well on those tiny keys but get 60wpm on screen via my galaxy s2. Oh ... its also fun when not working.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[ceoyoyo]

Yeah, you're right. Plummeting sales, stock in free fall. RIM is just fine! It's all FUD!

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[swalve]

So, just what is a smartphone without apps?

Useful and reliable.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[dontmakemethink]

My 8530 lasts most of the week, and charges fully while I'm in the shower. I'm not a super-heavy user so I won't discredit your other claims, but your battery life complaints have me questioning your credibility. Try turning off things you aren't using, y'know like not leaving your car running while it's parked. (obligatory car reference)

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[dontmakemethink]

They'll have to wait until Harper privatizes the Bank Of Canada before absorbing RIM's debt. Don't worry, it's in the 400-page budget somewhere...

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[dontmakemethink]

You had me at 90's Mac fan. Apple shit the bed with AltiVec and became a content-delivery company instead of a user-oriented company. Blackberry will never compete with the iPhone, but they're focusing on the user-oriented paradigm to fill the void Apple left. IMO they're going to let Apple shit itself again, like it always does when it gets ahead, Android will become the Windows of mobile devices and become bastardized like Windows has, and BlackBerry will become the go-to platform for people who need to get shit done, like they've proven they know how to do. They've got capital to ride out this rut and serious shit up their sleeve. I'm betting they focus on emerging third-world markets and I know they're giving away surplus product to lock in certain niche markets, and it's working. RIM is not going to go the way of CBM, but I'm not sure I'd advise buying up their stock just yet. Soon though.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[heathen_01]

Yes, it can usefully and reliably not run the applications you want.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Agreed. I worked for a place that issued me a BB and I've got to say that it was a damn good phone. The call reception was very good. The ringer was good and loud. The battery lasted for DAYS...try that with your Apple or Android smartphone. The physical keyboard, once you got the hang of it, was far superior to the touch screen keyboards that are all the rage. Sure, it didn't have GasBuddy and Facebook and all those thousands of apps that people can't seem to live without. Somewhere along the way people decided that they wanted their phone to be their music player and camera and all that and BB just missed the boat. Shame really.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

That's a sweet deal. I come from the financial sector. There, you NEED a BB. You don't even get a choice, and for good reason. One breach and it's millions/billions. I see your point though.

Though if I were a CTO I wouldn't allow anything other than BB's and definitely no BYOD's. And I'd only let people remotely in via VPN's and passcode generator devices. But that's me. Trade secrets are too important.

I smell the fanboys getting rabid. Only a fanboy would down mod this sensible post.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

You do realize that the information about write downs, poor sales, and declining financials is coming from Rim, don't you?

You do realize how journalism and PR works, especially in the tech industry, don't you? Businesses and companies write their own stuff or propose angles to "journalists" and then those so called journalists put them on their "news" website. If you look at there 10-K's and Q's--they are posted publicy. But who do you think is posting them--are you reading them from RIM's financial statement on blackberry.com or whatever? No, you're not. And let's not forget the majority of the articles are opinion pieces talking about "what rim needs to do" or "rim is dying blah blah blah". Sounds an awful like the situation with the incessant "Linux is dying" articles by our fav friend dvorak.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Apple of course doesn't care about enterprise, but it doesn't seem to make business sense for them to care. If it would make business sense, I'm sure as heck they'd care. I personally think it's quite cool that you can do quite serious music playing and editing on iDevices. It's cool that these days you can have a general purpose computer in your phone, with an interaction surface sensitive enough to simulate a dynamic instrument keyboard or a tracker/sequencer button array.

Spoken like a true fanboy. "If apple chooses not to do so or isn't good at it, it's not neccesary." Did you hear yourself? That said, I really don't think you're a fanboy, but see my point? And have you ever used an iDevice? 98% of the apps crash all the time, are buggy, and have 20% of the features of their *web brethren* which are only like 30-50% of desktop brethren. What's the point of having an App if for most of what you do you have to go home to use your desktop to get something done? And you're example, cmon. If you're doing professional music editing on a smartphone on the road, please. You're not a music professional then. You're just exactly the silly type of person I described in my OP.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

I have a blackberry bold, from work. New 7.1 OS. Touchscreen, aluminum design obviously takes from iPhone. yay.

Which one? Because that new bold 9900 or the Torch looks absolutely *nothing* like the iPhone *at all.*

But it sucks. Partly it's a chimera, gestures on the touchscreen battle with gestures from the keypad. The phone is awkwardly sized, trying to get a landscape wide screen with a need for a keypad.

Uh, unless you're going to type something out, your hands stay entirely on the touchpad. If I'm not typing an email, my hands won't ever leave the touchscreen if I don't want to. And if you want, it doesn't even have to leave the keyboard--use the trackpad. And there is even a software keyboard if you don't want to leave the touchpad IIRC. You get the choice and I'm not seeing how your workflow is affected.

The OS is better, but still lacks basic things. They've tried hard to embed Twitter in the OS for example, but the browser is horrible. Being horrible is in fact an improvement - the old browser made me want to stick a fork in my eye.

Point taken. But Android's stock browser is pretty bad too, and while mobile Safari is the best, it's the best of the worst. It doesn't even have a "view as desktop" if u ever need to actually use the full featured web page. And if you hate the stock BB browser, nothing is stopping you from getting Opera Mobile. Do you see people throwing a fit on iOS for using Dolphin or Skyfire?

So, built in apps: It has a killer app (BBM) that is hard to use. Its usefulness depends on network effects, and as people move away from Blackberry, BBM becomes less useful. iMessage is shows you how this should have worked from the beginning, and as iMessage gets broader adoption (any iOS 5 device, and soon OSX 10.8 will do iMessage), BBM will become even less essential, and Blackberrys also.

BB does have access to most if not all of the mainstream Apps as well you know. And with BBM, I could make the same argument. All my friends don't use iDevices. So iMessage is worthless to me. See how that works?

A Bold is too expensive and bulky to be a simple phone, and very bad at being a smartphone. Even charging is a pain now - my Bold takes more current than other BBs so a subset of my chargers don't work any more. Though iPads warn you of this, they still charge (slowly), With RIM, you're SOL. This is why they're sitting on inventory.

Too bulky? The reverse is true. Try holding that new bold 9900. It's actually the *perfect* width for typing and use. And as for charging, you're telling me BB doesn't have a micro/mini-whatever USB port for charging? Or that it won't let you charge? Not buying it.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[thoth]

I had a Blackberry Pearl that I used for ~2 years, and I liked it. Yes, even with the roller-ball and the "SureType" keyboard. It was fine as a phone and for text messages. Email was pretty decent too, even with the ever-blinking red light of "you've got mail". But the web browser and map apps (both included), weren't that great. I'd say terrible, but that is in comparison to what came afterwards. At the time it was OK, serviceable but not exactly easy/fun/compelling to use.

What exactly do you mean using it "as a smartphone (and not an App machine)"? If you aren't going to run apps, why get a smartphone? That was the conclusion I came to when I dropped the BB in favor of a Samsung Propel (a slider phone hiding a full keyboard) since at the time all I wanted was phone+text and the Propel was cheaper and didn't require a data plan.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Eponymous Coward]

Spoken like a true fanboy. "If apple chooses not to do so or isn't good at it, it's not neccesary." Did you hear yourself?

He didn't say that at all. Apple doesn't care about enterprise customers because that's not their market. They also aren't making point-of-sale terminals. So what? There's lots of evidence that their interest in the professional market is fading. These days Apple is mostly about consumers.

Since Apple isn't adapting to the enterprise, lots of enterprises are adapting to Apple. Companies are figuring out ways of supporting iPhones or are simply letting employees bring their own device.

And have you ever used an iDevice?

Have you? If all of your apps are crashing all of the time, then I think you have a hardware problem. Your experience isn't typical.

If you're doing professional music editing on a smartphone on the road, please. You're not a music professional then.

By professional, do you mean commercial? For most people, making music is a creative or artistic endeavor and has nothing to do with being professional.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[sl4shd0rk]

I know it's hard to believe, but RIM is a Canadian company.

Canadian yes, but not explicitly:

RIM United States
Research In Motion
122 West John Carpenter Freeway
Suite 430
Irving, Texas
United States 75038

tel: (877) 255-2377
fax: (972) 650-2006

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[grub]

LOL! Oh to have mod points for you...

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[mattack2]

And even though I use an Android phone now, I absolutely LOVED my two old BB's (old BB and that BB Bold 9700).

If you really liked your BBs, why aren't you using them, or perhaps a newer version (if it had something your older ones don't)?

Your post seems largely to be a "cheerleader" kind of post, yet you aren't using the product either! How is that not an example of an 'apocalypse' for the company?

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[mattack2]

:( All I know is that LinkedIn spams me regularly and it pisses me off to no end. I haven't found a way yet that worked that would stop them from emailing me.

I just looked, and there seems to be pretty clear email preferences settings. I only get a few emails from them, mostly their equivalent of friend requests.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[tibit]

It's not necessary for them -- you've missed that. They won't do stuff that makes no business sense for them. Nobody forces their technology on you -- as an enterprise, you'd hopefully evaluate what's available and choose according to your needs. There's enough competition in the mobile device market that you can't claim you have to use their technology in spite of yourself.

There are various kinds of things that professional musicians do. Some perform classical instruments, some write music, some direct, some perform electronic music, some do live improv (DJ-style), etc. I'm not doing any of it myself, but V. -- a friend of mine is, and it's incredible what he can do with a couple of iPads. Admittedly, he wrote many apps for his own use, but you can pull off quite a show if you're into it. The hardware makes it possible, the software takes that possibility into the realm of reality.

Whether the app store has things you'd like to see there as a particular kind of a professional musician is another story. Perhaps there's a niche for you to come up with something fresh and useful, then. I've seen a beautifully done emulation of 4/5 string bowed/plucked instruments, and the touchscreen interface coupled with software logic enabled one to play things that'd require 2 or even 3 performers. Sounded amazing, too, I'd have to get some sample passages from V. and post them. Beats anything I've ever heard coming from modern electone keyboards -- even when played by virtuosos like maru.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[tibit]

I have never had an account with them, that's the problem. Whatever "settings" you refer to are off-limits if you don't have an account, or else you know something I don't. Those are legitimate LinkedIn emails, no pretender spam.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Addressed this in another post. Simply needed a change. Was using the BB OS for a while now. Just wanted something fresh. I love technology and tinkering. Wanted something new to tinker with. And a FYI, my next phone is going to be a BB. Love Android, just miss how efficient and lightning fast the BB lets you be at phone email and text tasks.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[MogNuts]

Spoken like a true fanboy. "If apple chooses not to do so or isn't good at it, it's not neccesary." Did you hear yourself?

He didn't say that at all. Apple doesn't care about enterprise customers because that's not their market. They also aren't making point-of-sale terminals. So what? There's lots of evidence that their interest in the professional market is fading. These days Apple is mostly about consumers.

My original point WAS talking about the enterprise and RIM was/is succeeding there. And he wrote back, in essence, that "so what?--because Apple doesn't care about enterprise." So yes, as someone with a UID as low as yours is knows, that is the EXACT phrase every Apple fanboy has used since the dawn of Apple.

Since Apple isn't adapting to the enterprise, lots of enterprises are adapting to Apple. Companies are figuring out ways of supporting iPhones or are simply letting employees bring their own device.

Brilliant move. Read your sentence again as well. Companies are knowingly planning and implenting significant resources into not only the ONE product of *one* company, but a company who's very DNA and entire lifetime history is one of absolute *shitting* on its enterprise customers. EOL'ing everything. EOL all enterprise and server products. For goodness sake they're even practically abandoning their consumer *laptop* market. The newest OSX has had MAJOR issues in the software unfixed (battery fixes, etc.) since when now? And lastly, don't forget that most companies that say they support it, they mean maybe support for email and that's about it.

If this was any other product or any other company, IT managers wouldn't DARE, in a million years, support a move like that.

And have you ever used an iDevice?

Have you? If all of your apps are crashing all of the time, then I think you have a hardware problem. Your experience isn't typical.

Yup. 3GS. And it is. Even that article 6 months ago validates it ("iOS apps crash more than Android" article or something of that sort). Not my device either. Buddy has a 4, another has a 4, another has a 3GS. Most app devs can't even be bothered to implement SSL with their highly sensative customer data (Southwest, and that article a while back--what is it, like 40% IIRC?)--you think they give a damn about program stability or QA?

If you're doing professional music editing on a smartphone on the road, please. You're not a music professional then.

By professional, do you mean commercial? For most people, making music is a creative or artistic endeavor and has nothing to do with being professional.

You're validating my point again. I said playing piano was nothing more than a dick-waving thing to do on your phone. And you just said it wasn't for important use, but for screwing around with. Different how?

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[bjb]

Battery life? half a day if I'm lucky.

I've had a BlackBerry since the 950 "belt clip 2-way pager with a AA battery" (circa 1999). Always from the company, never personal purchase. I've never had a battery that bad. You either have a defective battery or you are killing it with how you're draining or charging it (and this would go for ANY rechargable battery in ANY phone).

I will admit that my current Torch 9810's battery just got replaced at the AT&T warranty shop since it would no longer take a charge after letting it completely drain over 4 days. Device and battery isn't 7 months old. However, I have read on the forums that the F-S1 battery (which I think is only the Torch 9800 and 9810) seems to have had a bad batch or two out there. Funny though, it would hold a charge for 3 days with usage even though they said it was bad.

Usability? It freezes for minutes at a time.

This I won't argue too much with. I've had my 9810 freeze for 20 seconds at times for no reason. Memory management? Heavy garbage collection? No idea. Certainly not as fluid as my iPhone, but minutes? I think you're exaggerating.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Eponymous Coward]

Companies are knowingly planning and implenting significant resources into not only the ONE product of *one* company, but a company who's very DNA and entire lifetime history is one of absolute *shitting* on its enterprise customers.

Companies need to keep their employees happy. Spending resources on keeping important employees happy is money well spent. Plus all of these devices have a 2 year life span, so making plans more than a few years out is probably a bad idea anyway.

I said playing piano was nothing more than a dick-waving thing to do on your phone. And you just said it wasn't for important use, but for screwing around with.

Are you just trolling? How is making commercial music more important than doing so for artistic reasons? And have you tried GarageBand on the iPad? It's a fantastic piece of software. I know musicians who have bought an iPad just for GarageBand.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[jsfs]

Eh, they'll find a way.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[Kotoku]

Wow, an obvious shill. Must be a few of the jobs RIM is still hiring for. I've not laughed harder in a while (haven't heard anyone call the blackberry browser good in the past three years..LOL). Someone who doesn't even know what USB Host is good for shouldn't pretend to be in a position to judge REAL technology users. Can't do any work on that tiny screen and little keys even if the OS wasn't a complete piece of crap.

Re:What's With All The RIM Hate?

[speedlaw]

Ditto on the Bold 9930. Good camera, great email, decent phone. Touch screen dislikes being in the sun. I already have ipad/ipod, but the buttons make a difference....I'm not good with touch screen typing. Music player means no ipod required, and you can download music for friends too ! For work, still better than the I-gadgets......

Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that RIM would have a better shot at survival if they abandoned their BBOS Operating System in favor of partnering with Google to produce a Blackberry that runs Android with all of the most popular services that Blackberry provides ported to Android. This may seem like a crazy move for them this late in the game but if a Blackberry that had good specs that also ran Android would seriously be a great device to have, since Blackberries usually had excellent build quality as well as enterprise support. If RIM could replicate what made them popular pre iOS and Android on the Android platform I could seriously believe that this company would have a fighting chance as a corporate Android Smartphone company.

Re:Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[Eponymous Coward]

Because then they would have to compete with Samsung and they just don't have the talent. I don't know if it's possible, but they should abandon hardware entirely and figure out how to offer secure messaging on top of Android or iOS. They are big enough and bring enough customers that Apple or Google might even be willing to grant them privileged access to the operating system that other 3rd party apps don't get.

Re:Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[aaarrrgggh]

RIM made some very bad decisions dating back to 2007 and before; their business model relied on effectively having a monoculture at a business, and to pull in the BES licensing revenue. When the iPhone came out, they really needed to scale back expenses, because that BES revenue would disappear if it still relied on the monoculture. It wasn't until 2009 (IIRC) that they began supporting other devices, but they had long-since lost the lock.

If they had bought Palm and used that as their next-generation OS, they would have stood a chance. I don't think Android helps them any; it makes it easier for a customer to switch out of their ecosystem. At this point, Facebook is their only hope as a suitor... which would be a really bad combination for existing markets but might not be the end of the world for long-term strategy.

Re:Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[ChunderDownunder]

They are abandoning the traditional bb os in favour of the qnx platform used in playbook. That does run android apps.

Re:Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[Octorian]

They actually are abandoning their legacy OS. While it may have been a great smartphone OS when originally introduced, its been pushed far beyond its design limits and is very much running out of steam.

The new OS in development, which is currently called "BlackBerry 10" (formerly called "BBX") is using the same basic modern architecture as everyone else. Under the covers, its using QNX (a POSIX-compliant realtime multitasking OS). On the surface, RIM is building a whole software stack and set of applications. They've got a new UI framework based on C++/Qt called Cascades. They're also supporting a variety of additional development options, including raw native code (for game developers), HTML5-based apps, Adobe Air, and even the "Android runtime".

They've also been holding a whole series of developer events to promote the new platform, and are seeding developer devices to help everyone get started with it. If you actually dig up and see what they've been working on, its obvious that they're dead serious about moving forward to the future.

Of course this all takes time, but they are fully committed to building out the new platform. They've even engaged the whole developer community directly, in more ways than many realize. They've been posting a ton of open source content, and have made many of their developers and program managers directly accessible to the developers out there in the community.

So people, please stop thinking they're some stodgy company still trying to push 5-year-old phones. They've changed a lot since then. It just takes time for everything to come to market, and even more time for the popular-press (who seems to have negative retorts "in the can" prior to RIM press releases being published) to notice.

Re:Why doesn't RIM abandon their terrible OS?

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

They were also blind to what the market wanted. RIM saw Blackberry (solely) as a messaging platform. That is becoming a commodity, and you need more than that. Other than BBM, they have nothing.

I kind of chuckle when i read about phone vs. PC. The phone now is the PC. What can be more Personal than a Computer you bring everywhere, even the restroom? A Personal Computer that knows where you are (gps + cell triangulation) lets you communicate with every network (cell, sms, BBM/iMessage, email, twitter, facebook, etc) we know of. That's more personal than any grey box at home. Apple sees this, which is why they're pushing iCloud. The Network Is The Computer, yeah, that was just about 20 years too early.

And blackberry wanted to push email phones with a server they'd sell you somewhere. At one point, that worked. People knew only that. But the market expects much more now. RIM didn't sell anything near what the overall market wanted and they got crushed. I don't' see any vision that would make me believe they get the new world much better than before.

Sad

[Kupfernigk]

Some of this is due to fashion and some of it to what has looked at times like a concerted negative PR attack from the competition. The Playbook on which I'm writing this is a convenient and useful tablet. RIM is now like Apple was at OS 9.2, except BB 7.1 isn't as bad as 9.2 was. Perhaps they will emulate Apple. Perhaps they will sink without trace.

Still, old people like me who like real keyboards may hope to pick up a 9900 or a 9790 for silly money later this year. The 9790 is a small, convenient, well built and specified phone which would have been eye-opening - in 2010.

Re:Sad

[tlhIngan]

Some of this is due to fashion and some of it to what has looked at times like a concerted negative PR attack from the competition. The Playbook on which I'm writing this is a convenient and useful tablet. RIM is now like Apple was at OS 9.2, except BB 7.1 isn't as bad as 9.2 was. Perhaps they will emulate Apple. Perhaps they will sink without trace.
Still, old people like me who like real keyboards may hope to pick up a 9900 or a 9790 for silly money later this year. The 9790 is a small, convenient, well built and specified phone which would have been eye-opening - in 2010.

To RIM's credit, they did survive the smartphone apocalypse that happened in 2007. The iPhone, iike it or not, changed everything. The old stalwarts of smartphones were wiped out - Symbian, Windows Mobile, PalmOS. A new generation of platforms emerged - Android, Windows Phone (and of course, iOS). RIM is basically the only "old stalwart" smartphone company still selling smartphones of that era today.

Of course, the blackberry also represents stuff hated these days - the leash to the office of 24/7 connectivity, and while the iPhone and Androids evolved, the blackberry has had minor updates. (Until later this year, when BBX comes out).

The playbook is basically a decent tablet, yes, but that's because all the other $200 tablets suck. The playbook was a joke when it was released at $500 and only until they took a massive price cut did it even begin selling.

I will bet that it is still a top 5 tablet...

[haus]

... among the remaining executives at RIM anyway. Elsewhere, nobody cares what they are doing.

RIM may be in freefall

[Baloroth]

RIM still made $3.64 billion in revenue last year, for $197.5 million in profit (a huge drop from last year, but they are still making money). RIM definitely could still succeed, but not like this. They are still a massive company with a huge name-brand, they just need to figure out how to use that. It may be unlikely, but I wouldn't mind seeing them succeed: more competition in the smartphone industry could be a very good thing. I'd hate to see it turn into a pure Android/iOS duopoly with no chance of a third competitor (Windows Phone... doesn't really count).

Re:RIM may be in freefall

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are the quarterly numbers. In the year ending March 2012 they made $18B in revenue and $1.5B in earnings.

Re:RIM may be in freefall

[rsmith-mac]

What makes this interesting is that one can so easily see the future of RIM so far out. All things considered they're doing well - they're still making a respectable profit and phone sales are near their peak. Yet at the same time they're almost entirely coasting by on momentum, as they haven't released a blockbuster product in quite some time. RIM may be fine now, but they have next to nothing to keep their customers over the long term, and that's their problem.

And now they're doing a "strategic review"

[compro01]

And now they're bringing in JP Morgan and RBC to do a strategic review of the company.

Maybe they can still salvage things.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/29/rim-shares-halted-jpmorgan-rbc_n_1553968.html

Just a Ploy

[Art Challenor]

1. Sell failed product on eBay
2. Wait for community Android port
3. Re-introduce device with an OS people care about
4. Profit!

Although in the case of HP we seem to have:

3a. Introduce Win 8 tablet, go back to 1.

Maybe RIM can do better.

Amazing amount of mismanagement

[Y-Crate]

NY Times

Since 2007, RIM has introduced 37 models. The company, in a statement, said it did not know how many models were on the market.

Adding to the shopping confusion are RIM’s product names, which generally rely on four-digit model numbers and sometimes have different products sharing a name. The BlackBerry Torch 9850 and 9860 are touch-screen phones that are on some shelves next to the BlackBerry Torch 9800 and 9810, touch-screen phones with slide-out keyboards. (The model number differences reflect models adapted for different cellphone systems.)

By contrast, Apple has introduced only four iPhones since 2008 and all were basically the same phone with differences in the amount of storage, or upgrades from older models.

Ironic that RIM is losing-out to the likes of Apple, by making the same mistake Apple did back in the dark days of the '90s, when it seemed like there was a new Performa out every week.

Re:Amazing amount of mismanagement

[MightyMartian]

That's because they have no strategy other than "HOLY FUCK! Look at all those Android and iOS smart devices! What are we gonna do? We'd better just start flinging shit at the wall. Some of it has got to stick!"

Re:Amazing amount of mismanagement

[PCM2]

Ironic that RIM is losing-out to the likes of Apple, by making the same mistake Apple did back in the dark days of the '90s, when it seemed like there was a new Performa out every week.

Exactly this. When Jobs came back to Apple, he drew a box on a whiteboard and drew a cross through it. Four quadrants: Pro/Consumer on top and Desktop/Portable along the side. Instead of all these crappy Performas and 4400s and what-not, Apple relaunched with four computer products, grand total. Those were iMac/Power Mac G3 and iBook/PowerBook.

Why can't RIM do this? It could probably get away with two models: BlackBerry (which has a nicer camera, movie player, and integrates nicely with Facebook) and BlackBerry Pro (which has slightly nicer build quality and some kind of easy VPN capability, or something). Model numbers disappear -- they just upgrade the hardware every year or two. It would go a long way to address the problem of sitting on too much inventory.

Then launch it with a decent TV ad campaign. "Imagine a phone... blah blah blah ... introducing the new BlackBerry, from Research in Motion." And then, when customers go to the store, they just tell the clerk "I want that new BlackBerry." Clerk hands him a box that says "BlackBerry" on it. Simple.

Never happen.

Re:Amazing amount of mismanagement

[Ecuador]

Off topic, but what is even more surprising (or outrageous depending on how you look at it) is that when the current Nokia CEO took over, he abandoned the (amazing as it turned out on the N9) MeeGo/Maemo for the Windows Phone giving as the reason the fact that their MeeGo dev pipeline was only good for 1 device per year (it was actually 2, but he he decided not to sell the N950).

Re:Amazing amount of mismanagement

[gl4ss]

you know what has been one of the shittiest decisions ever to happen multiple times at multiple mobile device companies? the decision to differentiate with VPN - like, "hey, we need to make this pro version better so let's cut 200kbytes worth of sw from the consumer(tm) models!". it's just stupid. nokia did it, some android vendors did it..

if they'd go with two versions, they should go with bb and blackberry bbkb, even an idiot can figure out that the later model would have a physical kb. and they shouldn't skip on features which cost nothing to include on the cheaper model, if anything they should bundle in their own vpn services with it - just to stick a finger to operators(by having sw on the marketplace to enable wifi tether which used that).

they never wanted the consumer market before. like, I'm talking about the true unlocked worldwide global consumer market - in that market blackberry NEVER MEANT SHIT, globally it was always irrelevant, a rap video niche product. it's like they have the same disease apple once had about hitting maximum per unit profitability, because they got that high as shit with just dealing with carriers and selling email as service.

Inventory

[PCM2]

"Organizational efficiency" certainly sounds like job cuts. But hopefully it means RIM might take a look at its manufacturing efficiency, as well.

At Apple, Steve Jobs always invested heavily in modern, automated assembly lines for its products, because he realized that the problem of too much inventory is particularly risky for computer makers. If you think about it, technology products have relatively short shelf lives. You can't sit on a pile of inventory and sell it for the next few years, like you could if you were making hammers or dinner plates. By next year, your inventory of shiny gadgets might effectively be junk. So the key is to develop a manufacturing process -- and equally important, supply partnerships -- that allow you to manufacture products at an incredibly fast rate, so that you can respond to market demand rapidly. If the market wants tons of units, ramp up production. When it cools off, stop making more. Then you don't have to sit on so much inventory.

If RIM is sitting on $1 billion in inventory, it certainly sounds like it grossly overestimated the demand for some of its products at launch. But it also suggests that it either isn't paying close enough attention to the market numbers, or is unable to react quickly enough to them. Working on either one might save it some money.

Re:Inventory

[kelemvor4]

"Organizational efficiency" certainly sounds like job cuts. But hopefully it means RIM might take a look at its manufacturing efficiency, as well.

At Apple, Steve Jobs always invested heavily in modern, automated assembly lines for its products, because he realized that the problem of too much inventory is particularly risky for computer makers. If you think about it, technology products have relatively short shelf lives. You can't sit on a pile of inventory and sell it for the next few years, like you could if you were making hammers or dinner plates. By next year, your inventory of shiny gadgets might effectively be junk. So the key is to develop a manufacturing process -- and equally important, supply partnerships -- that allow you to manufacture products at an incredibly fast rate, so that you can respond to market demand rapidly. If the market wants tons of units, ramp up production. When it cools off, stop making more. Then you don't have to sit on so much inventory.

If RIM is sitting on $1 billion in inventory, it certainly sounds like it grossly overestimated the demand for some of its products at launch. But it also suggests that it either isn't paying close enough attention to the market numbers, or is unable to react quickly enough to them. Working on either one might save it some money.

It also helps if you can outsource this manufacturing to a place where you can treat the workers in a way that would be illegal in your primary market. Bonuses for the execs if you can reduce their wages enough to keep them below the poverty line. You can bet that part wasn't a surprise to Jobs, either.

Re:Inventory

[whisper_jeff]

According to this article, they've released 37 models since 2007. Averaged out, that means they're sitting on just over $27 million inventory per model. The problem is, when you make 37 models, that turns into insanity.

Someone elsewhere in the discussion pointed out that RIM is making the same mistake Apple made back in their dark days - releasing product after product and flooding the market. The first thing RIM needs to do is pick four or five phone models that they want to support and kill all others. That would be a good starting point. 37 models is just stupid.

Re:Inventory

[Crosshair84]

Do you ever stop to ask yourself WHY the workers choose the sweatshop? Could it possibly be because it is their least bad option? The fact is that those "sweatshops" typically pay several times the wages of other jobs available to those workers. What are YOU doing to improve the lives of those workers? Condemn them to lives as subsistence farmers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxBzKkWo0mo&feature=g-u-u

"Cheap labor" is not why companies are fleeing the US. It is because the US is over-regulated In the late 19th century the US paid the highest wages and produced the lowest cost goods. Even today, there are places in the world with lower wages then China, yet the produce next to nothing.

Pure Profit

[organgtool]

RIM has said it aims to save $1 billion in operating costs this fiscal year by cutting its number of manufacturing sites

On the plus side, at this rate it won't be long before RIM has no operating cost and is left with pure profit!

Re:Fair Enough.

[epiphani]

5 years is a long time in the mobile industry. Are you telling me your employees would be happy with a first generation iphone?

TERRIBLE writeup

[Scareduck]

From TFA:

The value of the company’s inventory climbed to $1.03 billion last quarter, up from $618 million a year earlier. Back in mid-2008, when the BlackBerry was still a hot seller and RIM’s stock traded at an all-time high of $147.55, the figure was less than $500 million.

Nowhere in that article does it suggest that 100% of the current inventory will have to be written off. A terrible writeup from someone who clearly has reading comprehension problems.

Re:TERRIBLE writeup

[UnknowingFool]

Yes, but if RIM is having problems selling the inventory, they will have to lower prices. That means they will take a loss of some sort. While smartphones don't spoil like food, the rate of technology does make their models obsolete quickly. RIM can take the losses in small chunks or a large write-off. Some feel the one-time loss is easier.

Re:TERRIBLE writeup

[slew]

From TFA:

The value of the company’s inventory climbed to $1.03 billion last quarter, up from $618 million a year earlier. Back in mid-2008, when the BlackBerry was still a hot seller and RIM’s stock traded at an all-time high of $147.55, the figure was less than $500 million.

Nowhere in that article does it suggest that 100% of the current inventory will have to be written off. A terrible writeup from someone who clearly has reading comprehension problems.

It is probably just a tacit assumption that they will play a common accounting trick. The game basically works like this, write 100% of the value of the inventory off at a loss and take the earnings hit all in 1 quarter. Now, if/when you eventually sell some of that inventory that you wrote off, the effective gross product margin looks great (because you wrote off all the loss in a previous quarter, the cost of goods is near zero) in the quarter you actually do sell them.

Re:TERRIBLE writeup

[OttoM]

Hey, this is slashdot, where submitter don't read the original article, editors don't read the submission and posters... well, they just post and don't read anything at all. Might as well skip linking to any article at all.

Re:TERRIBLE writeup

[benfrog]

Nowhere in that article does it suggest that 100% of the current inventory will have to be written off. A terrible writeup from someone who clearly has reading comprehension problems.

That's funny. Cnet read it the same way. Of course, they didn't get the link right, so maybe they aren't the best source...

Usability

[Dennis Sheil]

Continuing on the usability theme, I find that trackball like middle button difficult to handle. Doing things on an iPhone or Android (or even WinPhone) is just so much easier.

What the fsck...

[swb]

....does this mean?

But yet if you actually used a Blackberry, as a smartphone (and not an App machine) ...

So a Blackberry is a "smartphone" if you use it as a phone and presumably as an email device, but any other use isn't "smartphone" but is instead an "app machine", which presumably means stupid shit like Angry Birds and not useful apps, like a SSH client or a mapping client or something else.

It sounds like the problem Blackberry has is that it's not a very smart phone.

Re:What the fsck...

[MogNuts]

SWB, your UID is too low to *not* know that Angry Birds are NOT useful apps. Your post makes no sense. And u also should know what the intent of my sentence was because with your UID (i'm guessing you've been compiling kernels since the 1.x days) you've been around long enough to have used a Blackberry.

So how is it not a smart phone? It has SSH clients, VoIP clients, mapping, etc. so what's your point?

All I can say in reply to your post is... huh?

Re:What the fsck...

[swb]

You're right, I've been around long enough to have used a Blackberry when it wasn't even a phone. It was revolutionary at the time, but it's clearly outived its usefulness or sense of innovation (which was always more about having portable email than the quality of the email).

I don't quite understand why people consider it so great for email. I suppose the physical keyboard might be faster for typing, although even I'm amazed at how good I and others are on an on-screen keyboard. The interface seems less convenient than an iPhone, which I find useful but not terribly feature-rich.

But let's face it, the Blackberry is a joke for *any* application as user interface compared to IOS or Android. The marketplace knows it and the company knows it, or they wouldn't be desperate with BB 10.

Stick a fork in it, it's done.

They're going to go bust.

[John Hasler]

Unless somebody buys them first. No amount of reorganizing will help.

Re:They're going to go bust.

[marcosdumay]

Companies don't go burst while profitable and with sustainable debits only. Before they go burst, one of those must change.

Re:They're going to go bust.

[Mashiki]

Doubtful, they made almost $4B last year with $200m in profit. That's not going bust, that's still making a profit with a poor P/E performance.

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[MightyMartian]

And that's the best RIM could do at this point; open the damned thing up and they could probably get rid of their stock in a month.

That J P Morgan?

[Kupfernigk]

The one that dropped $7 billion on trades recently? Oh dear.

If you want a Blackberry

[Antarell]

best pick it up before Christmas, I don't see them being around much after that. I would say the same for Nokia but I think the release of the Desktop Windows 8 will save their bacon, but they will be a owned by MS in the next few years I think.

Here's why

[kelemvor4]

Their inventory consists mostly of blackberries.

Re:Here's why

[OttoM]

Their inventory consists mostly of blackberries.

And PlayBooks!

Re:Fair Enough.

[kelemvor4]

Yikes, your employees were using 5 year old phones? You may want to look more at the policies around cell phones and reconsider those rather than blaming a 5 year old device for any particular problem.

On the other hand, you could consider yourself fortunate that you bought 10 devices that all lasted for so long.

RIM is currently only screwed by their own dogma

[goldcd]

Good things RIM have:
Communication apps - BBM, email blah blah - people who have to get things done, like these (a lot).
Keyboards - If I need to type many emails, and as much as I like swype, I want a physical keyboard.
Company access - They were the mobile corporate tool, and as much as we hear about how android and iOS are making inroads into the enterprise market, these companies all still support BB and would (mainly) buy from them again. Actually I'd go further - the drive for the switch came from users asking if there was a BB alternative (not that IT suddenly wished to support a dozen platforms)

The problem RIM has is that their current complete solution is somewhat lacklustre compared to that of their competition. They also need to accept that people have already gone out and bought an android or iOS smartphone - and they will compare that device they already have to what RIM are offering. I do not know of anybody who has a corporate blackberry as their sole phone. I do not know of anybody, given the choice of a single device as a freebie from their IT overlords, who would take a BB over an iPhone or an android device. Sure the BB might be better for those work tasks - but being given an iphone at your employers expense feels like a lovely perk - e.g. "free iphone 4GS" is something you might attract applicants with, "free BB" just sounds like they're intending you to be online 24/7.

RIM need to open up to iOS and Android. They need a completely isolated and secure stack from dedicated VPN to pretty access clients that can be installed on anything. I'd happily let my employer install that little work sandbox on my own phone - this app is work, the rest of the phone is still mine (my current employers suggested Android client is rocking The next thing they need to do is produce a phone I'd actually want to own. Now I fully accept that they don't have the ability to produce a phone to compete with Apple or say Samsung - but there's a screaming shortage of "decent android phones with physical keyboards". I'd take a compromise on the screen (a minor one) and I'm of the opinion that the average CPU/GPU out there is 'good enough'.
I'm convinced somebody in RIM has pitched all of the above and it's been knocked back due to divisions full of VPs trying to guard their atrophying turf.
So
RIM need to fire a shit-load of people, not to save money, but to allow the company to achieve focus.
RIM need to stop pretending we all want their hardware - they'd have better luck selling a service, where they'd rule the market by default.
RIM need to produce a "BB experience" piece of hardware - on either Android or WM with a nice keyboard that will allow their devotees to carry on pecking away with their thumbs (and play Angry Birds).

Actually WM isn't a bad idea - MS pretty much bought up Nokia for the lovely hardware (I was very nearly seduced by that piece of polycarbonate loveliness and that silly-res camera is coming soon). Now just need to come up with a convincing reason to make us all switch...and exchange hard-wired into my hand would be a definite plus.

Build me....

[yanom]

... a Beowulf cluster of these!

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[DrXym]

I have a Playbook and it is nice hardware. It's just a shame about the software which suffers primarily from the fact it isn't android. The app store is pitifully empty and what apps there are often cost more than their counterparts in android land. The OS itself is reasonably stable but still suffers by comparison to android 3.x or higher. I think RIM should give up on their own hardware and really think about becoming a VAR over android.

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[blind monkey 3]

You're right about the app store (imo) and I can't see that changing any time soon - even with their efforts to entice developers.
I also think the fact the OS is not an Android or IOS is a big disadvantage too - although imo the OS is brilliant - stable, responsive, nice UI etc - the Android Player is quite good too but the requirement to repackage the Android apps is frustrating (getting hold of the application file to re-package is painful) although I can see some logic in it.

Didn't seem to help RIM

[SuperKendall]

It also helps if you can outsource this manufacturing to a place where you can treat the workers in a way that would be illegal in your primary market.

RIM didn't seem to be helped by this.

Oh wait, you meant APPLE. Except that Apple is the only company actually paying attention to worker conditions. Where are RIM's public investigations into worker treatment? Blackberrys could be built from the souls of 3rd world workers for all we know.

In fact, that would explain the first Torch rather well. *shudder*.

Ah, the non-technical Apple Hater

[SuperKendall]

But they forgot you can't win at the uninformed easily seduced consumer market that apple owns.

The problem with that theory is that a LOT of very technical people were the ones that adopted Apple laptops early and propelled them to success.

Similarity for the iPhone a lot of the early users I knew were very technical people who could understand the benefits offered.

You don't seem very technically inclined yourself or you would have observed the percentage of MacBooks at technical conferences/gatherings...

Re:Ah, the non-technical Apple Hater

[MogNuts]

This wasn't meant to be a flamewar about apple. It was about RIM. But if you want to start it, that's fine by me.

The problem with that theory is that a LOT of very technical people were the ones that adopted Apple laptops early and propelled them to success.

No. Just no. This is why people adopted Apple laptops in the beginning:

- People wanted shiny. They were bored with the XP workhorse and wanted something different
- It was the beginning of the online malware epidemic (not the simple viruses of yore) and Apple touted not getting them to suckers (which as we all know was, as especially now, is false)
- Apple users who were on OS 9 and while being spoonfed shit ('96-7 on) for so many years finally had an upgrade path.
- The apple cultists and fanboys, who had to rabidly defend their platform of choice here on 'ol /.

Let's not forget that the early OSX days were painful. And it didn't even have iTunes or any of this modern feature-added stuff it has today. It has GPU accelerated shiny graphics and that's IT. It was a stability and buggy nightmare until 10.3/10.4. So please, short of "ooh shiny", that was the main reason to upgrade, which is my original point.

Similarity for the iPhone a lot of the early users I knew were very technical people who could understand the benefits offered.

Anecdotal evidence does not an argument make. Most of the people I knew who were early purchasers were total douches who were fake hipsters and had to go around the party and show everyone their new Apple phone and, no kidding, actually had one guy without prompt from me say "and it doesn't have 3G, but Apple is so about the usability it doesn't matter". I kid you not. And technical benefits? Like when it was released in what, 2007, it didn't have 3G which was in use for years by then and don't forget by blackberry, but didn't have an App store either? Yes, so technically superior.

You don't seem very technically inclined yourself or you would have observed the percentage of MacBooks at technical conferences/gatherings...

Again, my point elsewhere in this thread about apple being a marketing and image company. They all use their workhouse windows 7 laptop at work, but when they attend their conference, they want to be seen using that apple logo. And your UID is low enough to know I'm right.

Whats with the enterprise love?

[mevets]

The beloved enterprise arenâ(TM)t that discerning; gutless decisions based on trendy psychobabble (anybody remember Six Sigma), targeted advertising (in flight magazines), and prestige (we have two E10Kâ(TM)s for serving email alone). Secondly, Enterprises are driven more by expediency than vision. You have a pile of Windows Admins; then Windows it is. The rep from vendor X has his tongue up your ***; you buy the latest crap from vendor X. CFOâ(TM)s cousin sells service Y; you get service Y. The Enterprise is neither innovative nor a stimulus for innovation.

Re:Whats with the enterprise love?

[MogNuts]

I'm sure that about 30% of slashdot users would disagree with you, considering that I bet you most of them run or are at the top of managing their enterprise or IT dept. But go on thinking that.

And yes, it's innovate to give someone an iPhone with unsecured business email to a fortune 500 company with trade secrets! And it's so NOT innovate for RIM to implement quite possibly the most innovative kernel ever produced, QNX, to run it's OS in the next phone.

RIM is working on MDM

[mrops]

From all the rumors floating around and recent news that RIM hired Apple iOS developers, it seems RIM is building a BYOD mdm solution. From what I understand they are looking to partition the devices, BB, iOS and Android. The secure enterprise partition can be managed by RIM's BES or whatever they call it. Not sure how they will achieve this, sandboxing secure partition or what, but it sounds good on paper.

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[DrXym]

I'm one of the developers enticed over and I have released apps on their store and have another in the pipeline but they're android apps ported to .bar files. It's a pain in the arse to do and compounded by the fact that the android environment has been deliberately crippled to prevent users from installing other app stores, or even from sideloading. Apparently RIM intend to disable sideloading altogether but how it affects devs will be interesting to see. Either way it's really annoying.

The OS is pretty good but it has it's share of annoyances. I hate the way the lock / pin screen sometimes rotates and sometimes doesn't depending on the app underneath (i.e. if you have mail open under the lock screen it won't rotate). Some icons like Music / Video mysteriously disappear from time to time. Some of the default apps are a mixed experience mess or point to proprietary commercial services (e.g. Zinio). Sometimes wifi goes awol and a total reboot is required. The browser is fast but lacks options like password manager, edit bookmarks, or to put touch activated placeholders for flash. Lots of little things that add up to be annoying. A .5 release could really nail the experience but I fear it may never happen. If anyone ever figures out how to root these things, I'll be installing ICS like a shot.

I really think they should just dump their OS altogether IMO. RIM's value is in security, certification and business infrastructure. They can provide this as value added software / hardware over Android. I think a security hardened Android would be extremely popular.

BB Memory Issues

[Necroloth]

I'm currently a BB user and live in the UK. I think the phone is great... have a BB 9105 Pearl 3G - I chose this because i don't like the full keyboard as the keys are too tiny for the sausages that I call my fingers! Plus I am so used to text typing on a normal number pad from all my previous phones, it was a simple transition.

I love using BBM and because of all my friends on it, I want to stay with BB's once my contract ends. I do have WhatsApp on it too to chat with other phone users but prefer BBM. I've used Maps which was great and helped me find places around London quite a few times and used it as a car GPS guide several times... just needs voice directions and it would be amazing!

my only gripe is with the memory management. I can't remember what the internal memory size for the phone is but it seems woefully small. i've only installed a few themes and apps and it's left me with 26.2Mb of memory which means every other day I end up rebooting the phone because memory is running low! What's the point in me adding a 4Gb micro-sd card if it doesn't use that space? Everything gets installed on it's internal memory! And don't tell me it can't store in other locations because Nokia's have been able to do that for ages and if you happen to pull out the memory card whilst running a program stored on it - it merely kills the program... why can't BB do that?!

this issue is the only thing I have that would make me look for other phones. Although I enjoy playing games on my friends Andoid or iPhones, I know personally that I probably don't get much time to play on it and if I do, I'm happy with the games I currently have on the BB.

wrong bush, wrong stick.

[mevets]

Iâ(TM)m certain those running IT depts would disagree; thats the whole point though, isnâ(TM)t it.

FWIW, QNX is an awesome choice; too bad RIM passed on using it for the original BlackBerry.

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[blind monkey 3]

I sympathise with you re the .bar file conversion. I thought it was possible to load the Android Market - I haven't done it so can't comment on how well it works though.
I've had problems with the rotate feature too - only when I'm using the Android player, some apps don't rotate and that seems to mess up the rotating for all Android apps.
Thankfully wifi has not been an issue for me since moving from 2.0 beta to 2.0 release, never had issues with icons disappearing but I've had problems with the Android Player locking up because an app crashed.
I like the browser but you have some very valid points - all easily fixable by RIM if they ever get around to it.... I suspect they are too busy putting out other fires.

I really think they should just dump their OS altogether IMO. RIM's value is in security, certification and business infrastructure. They can provide this as value added software / hardware over Android. I think a security hardened Android would be extremely popular.
Two thumbs up on that. I'd be surprised if they're not investigating this option - it is (to me aleast) the easiest option - possible the only option left if OS 10 doesn't turn things around for them and they want a reasonable market share (imo).

Re:Playbooks on Sale?

[blind monkey 3]

Oops, just saw that Playbook 2.1 beta has just been released - improvements to the browser, allows rotating of apps that didn't rotate - there are also Android Player improvements that might be relevant to your apps.