Slashdot Mirror
What Struck Earth in 775?
ananyo writes "Just over 1,200 years ago, the planet was hit by an extremely intense burst of high-energy radiation of unknown cause, scientists studying tree-ring data have found. The radiation burst, which seems to have hit between 774 and 775, was detected by looking at the amounts of the radioactive isotope carbon-14 in tree rings that formed during the 775 growing season in the Northern Hemisphere. The increase in 14C levels is so clear that the scientists conclude that the atmospheric level of 14C must have jumped by 1.2% over the course of no longer than a year, about 20 times more than the normal rate of variation (abstract). Yet, as the only known events that can produce a 14C spike are supernova explosions or giant solar flares, and neither event was observed at the time, astronomers have a cosmic mystery on their hands."
You need only look at the years leading up to 775 to unravel this mystery. In 773 at the start of the Islamic Golden Age, the number zero was introduced to Baghdad which would, in 775, surpass China's capital of Chang'an as Earth's largest city. Now, we know from the second law of thermodynamics that 'the entropy of an isolated system that is in equilibrium is constant.' Now with all those people suddenly using zero in tons of transactions and writings, Earth experienced a huge decrease in entropy. I'm sure if you analyze the existing works from the time, you'll find that pervasive use of the hot new number zero increased the frequency of numbers at the time by 1.2%. That means that somewhere there had to be an increase in entropy to maintain the balance described by the second law of thermodynamics. Of course, anyone with a mail-order internet degree can tell you the obvious natural source of entropy at the time would be the decay of nitrogen-14. What? Falsifiability? Just watch, the floods in Thailand have lead to a decrease in production of ones and zeros hard drives which means we'll finally get a break from this 'global warming' or (let's just call it for what it really is) the 'entropic energy extravaganza!'
Also, for good measure: Nazis.
My work here is dung.
I don't have a comment other than to say that I enjoy articles like this one. Please bring more like it and i will hit refresh 20 times to get yor page hit count up :)
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Is that you?
If the supernova was behind or near the Sun, earthlings around 775 wouldn't have been able to detect it.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Would this mean carbon dating is inaccurate for items older than 1300 years?
Time to redate the Shroud of Turin?
Where people making observations of the Sun in 775?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/775
the usual
Arrival of Chuck Norris?
The Sol system was the site of a major inter-stellar battle. Two great space armadas firing nuclear weapons at each other. Each one trying to gain a foothold in this part of the Western Spiral Arm until of course they realized there was nothing worth it here.
Either that or a Vogon constructor fleet started making a hyper space by-pass. They got the planet between Mars and Jupiter and then the funding ran out.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
A Volcano could have spit out the this stuff?
"Behind the Sun?"
Maximum Prophet, for your information, the Earth rotates around the Sun.
Being behind the Sun may not matter here, if the effect was strong and _long_ enough to elevate C14 levels.
Yes, that object still is shrouded in mystery. But, recall, it is not older than 1300 years. It is from 1300AD , more or less.
Yet, as the only known events that can produce a 14C spike are supernova explosions or ... and neither event was observed at the time
... was observed at the time in surviving northern written records.
Are there any detailed written astronomical observations from the southern hemisphere from that long ago?
Also it would be pretty funny if the two guys recording solar observations in 775 both had a rainstorm the day of the largest solar flare.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Lots of religious turmoil at the time. Maybe the old gods were angry and blew somebody up? You know how those 22nd century time travelers get when you piss them off.
Since a near supernova enough to increase Carbon 14 levels would leave other effects, and the flares explanation is, similarly, weak.It is just as likely there was a temporary reduction in the earth's magnetic field that allowed more ambient cosmic rays to strike earth. While this amount of variation in the magnetic field is high, it isn't out of range of other events. It has the further advantage of not leaving a large number of highly visible effects, except for very strong auroras, which, given the date, might not have been recorded frequently or unequivocally enough.
Fugue for Aaron Swartz
There Loki goes again, just messin' with us.
Why does this remind me of Nightfall? *SPOILERS* The scientists of the day in that book discover the fossil record of previous civilisations just prior to the cycle repeating itself, think I'm going to go build a fall out shelter.
Aliens iradiated earth to stimulate speciation and evolution in the hope that someday we would become good hosts for their symbiotic / larvae pupe form.
Either this or it's because of the remaining radiations of the top-secret leaving time machine, going back to 2013.
They bought the budget model that didn't include the extra shielding.
--Red Dwarf, "Kryten"
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Atmospheric nuclear expolisions can also cause a spike in C14... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14
The obvious answer is that earth was nuked in the year 775!!!
ALIENS
is such a thing even possible?
yes it is
Hardly a spike, if we believe the written records of that time (referenced in the comments to the original article) which speak about lights that could be seen for many nights.
It was god. You know, it acts in mysterious ways, and in things we don't know about yet. And that's proof global warming is a fallacy! god will save us all!
What was left of it took 775 years to get to earth.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Just because it was not observed, does not mean it did not happen.
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, it still makes a sound.
Rimmer: Just cause they're aliens doesn't mean to say they don't have to visit the little boys' room. Only they probably do something weird and alien-esque, like it comes out of the top of their heads or something.
Lister: Well, I wouldn't like to be stuck behind one in a cinema.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Someone didn't enter the code when the 108-minute timer reached zero.
Geeze, and these guys call themselves scientists.
775 was a year of false permissiveness when anyone could read or do anything as long as it was produced by a small cabal known as "the group", headed by "owner".
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
1908 - 775 = 1133.
I've checked this several times and it always comes out the same. It's factually correct, so it must be the explanation.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Large scale: the solar system passed through the debris field of an old super nova and Earth picked up a lot of meteors high in C14.
Mid scale: Earth was struck by the remnants of a comet that had taken the full force of a solar flare while at its perihelion. The flare was not aimed at Earth, but Earth picked up a lot of meteors high in C14.
Small scale: The young punk delivery guy who brought the pizza to the Collaborated Alien Archeology Group that was studying Stonehenge kicked his runabout into hyperdrive before leaving the Earth's atmosphere. He would have been ticketed for that, but the mess he left behind would have cost more than the Galactic Overlord had in his budget for cleaning up a pre-industrial world.
Will
Except that, as the article points out, the reamains of any supernova that could account for the levels of radiation needed, would be easily detectable today. And a solar flare that would be powerful enough to have caused that effect, would also result in massive auroras (although that apparently is somewhat debatable), which would be extremely unlikely not to be commented upon in *any* of the surviving 'scientific' or historical documents. So the chances of either event happening and not being observed are miniscule.
A supernova is pretty much out. And according to our *current understanding of solar flares* it was not a solar flare either. Very interesting little puzzle, even if all it results in, is 'only' a better understanding of solar flares. Or better understanding of how the Earth's magnetic field can fluctuate or whatever. Or even a revisiting of some obscure references to brighter northern lights in old documents.
A.D. 774. This year the Northumbrians banished their king,
Alred, from York at Easter-tide; and chose Ethelred, the son of
Mull, for their lord, who reigned four winters. This year also
appeared in the heavens a red crucifix, after sunset; the
Mercians and the men of Kent fought at Otford; and wonderful
serpents were seen in the land of the South-Saxons.
http://omacl.org/Anglo/part2.html
rewriting history since 2109
Its simple - this is the residue of the propulsion blast from the spaceship that brought alien technology to earth. All we need do is find out what giant leaps in technology were made around then & we'll have the answer.
Either that or Freemasons 8-{D
First of all, the 14C measurements and related considerations could be simply flawed. It would not be the first time. ... which would require a rather large number of samples to be studied and collected from a wide spread area (the whole northern emishere). I wonder how many (precious) samples of wood can be retrieved intact from 1200 years in the past to be literally burnt in order to measured the 14C.
Second, the fact that the primary natural source of carbon-14 on Earth is cosmic ray action upon nitrogen in the atmosphere doesn't mean it's been a super nova for sure. That could also be due to abnormal solar activity (this is said in the article) which could easily go unobserved by civilizations that don't have the proper technology.
Third, astronomical records at that era were relatively scarce and quite imprecise too.
Fourth, the article talks about northern emisphere
Fifth, you can also have a not-so-strong abnormal solar activity just lasting months or even quarters to produce the same amount of 14C.
But all these could be as flawed as the original considerations ...
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Obviously, the Atlanteans were trying to tell Charles the Great not get too uppity. Needless to say, he wasn't intimidated and instead kicked their butts. And that's why Atlantis is no more and Charles got called the Great.
Clearly, he was sent to the past. Dr. Banner got angry, and started smashing anything with carbon in it. There's your source of gamma radiation.
My time machine broke, and I accidentally irradiated Italy.
This signature intentionally left blank.
Richardcm posted this on reddit:
"[The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle](http://omacl.org/Anglo/part2.html) gives this curious entry for the year 774: A.D. 774. ... This year also appeared in the heavens a red crucifix, after sunset; the Mercians and the men of Kent fought at Otford; and wonderful serpents were seen in the land of the South-Saxons.
The Anne Savage translation says 'Men saw Christ's red cross in the heavens after sunset' but in the year 776." Interesting, and noteworthy.
Of course
The Greys landed here to pick up biological components for their spaceship. They were still looking for all the right parts until recently, which is what the anal probing was about. The world is slated to end in late 2012 because that's when they'll get the engines back on line and leave, killing all higher life forms on the planet because their drive is still malfunctioning.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Aliens!
he was a plumber from Sheissburg
Scheiseburg
She came to the Earth on that day.
The first Olympic games [called the Panhellenic Games] were first held in Olympia around 775 BC. No one knows why the games started...
Cite Ref: http://www.mce.k12tn.net/ancient_greece/olympicgames.htm
The games were traditionaly held to honor the gods Zeus, Poseidon and Apollo.
Kind of makes you wonder...
Cheers !
Patrick R. Mullen / MSS
http://news.discovery.com/space/warp-drive-black-hole.html
It's the only logical explanation - obviously the radiation was the direct result of an advanced race dropping out of FTL within the Sol system.
You guys and your wacky theories...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
obviously it was the last time the planet Mongo passed close enough for Ming to be interested in us.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
This is quite informative and interesting IMHO
We substituted the coffee Slashdot normally drinks with "Sandoz Crystals", Lets see if they notice the difference
God's piss is pretty much all carbon-14. I thought everyone knew that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Radiocarbon_dating_calibration.svg To anyone more knowledgeable than me, shouldn't see some major movement on the c14 calibration graph around 775AD? Looks like a pretty boring period to me.
Nothing came from above. It was just a nuclear war.
Isn't that about the time the Klingons dismantled their military and wrote the inspiration for a bunch of popular plays?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
According to the Dragon Ball Z timeline, it occurred in 774.
- Buu destroys Earth
- Porunga restores the Earth
- Vegeta's life is restored when all "good" people who diedon Earth are wished back to life
- Goku destroys Kid Buu with the Super Spirit Bomb
http://www.angelfire.com/anime4/vegetapride/Timeline.html
Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
As I stated previously, it was not "nuked". It was "Spirit Bomb"ed.
http://www.angelfire.com/anime4/vegetapride/Timeline.html
Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
History channel's conclusion: Aliens did it.
that carbon dating is bullshit that depends on an assumption of constantness that does not exist.
The original article links don't provide any useful data to assess the likelihood of either suggested potential cause (supernova or solar flare).
Here is a nice report that does:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690024196_1969024196.pdf also see: http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0469(1964)021%3C0134%3APOCBSP%3E2.0.CO%3B2
What one finds is that the normal rate of C-14 production is around 2.5 C-14 atoms cm^2/sec, normally 95% of it from solar protons. The large solar flare of 1956 Feb 23, if at an opportune time of reduced shielding (the effective shielding fluctuates), would produce an annualized equivalent of 2.33, which would about double the normal production. The closest recent supernova of 1054 on the other hand is only capable of producing up to perhaps 0.2, only 8% more than normal.
To get a 2000% increase over normal you either need a supernova 16 times closer and 250 times brighter than 1054, or you need one 20-fold super-solar flare, or 20 big normal solar flares at an opportune low shielding period. Whether or not anyone saw or recorded a supernova this close, the remnant would be glaring obvious today - it would be a naked eye object larger than the full moon. On the other hand no one even noticed a solar flare before 1857, except for the auroras seen. It suggests a rare abnormal solar flare, or a rare abnormal series of more typical solar flares is by far the most likely candidate.
As others have noted on this thread, records do exist of strange events in the sky from that time, which might possibly refer to unusual auroras, and records from that time are terribly spotty anyway so the evidence would be expected to be thin, if present at all.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
Maybe we got grazed by a near miss Gamma Ray Burst, or hit with one that was so far away it's energy levels were greatly depleted.
Perhaps the normal process by which Carbon 14 is produced did not increase. The article writer seems to assume that the trees increased uptake of Carbon 14 implies that all the increased Carbon 14 came from a radiation event. How did they eliminate the possibility of a Carbon 14 rich carbonaceous asteroid vaporizing in Earth's atmosphere?
Maybe they should have asked for alternate theories from Slashdot readers. :)
I tried carbon dating but kept getting turned down.
Or were they terrified of global warming at the time?
That's the logical explanation when you can't find any other logical explanation. Ask any religious person.
Did I do that? Fo' shizzle?
This is where the time machine that crashed at Tunguska lifted off from.
[SIGH] C14 is unstable : it goes away (well, changes into something that is NOT C14) pretty rapidly. Any random nucleus of C14 has a 50% chance of decaying into something else in a period of 6400 (approx) years.
Unless you have some process that is carefully making C14 on your meteor, immediately before you use it, then you will not have a significant content of C14 by the time that you come to "use" your meteor in a collision. After ten half-lives (64,000 years, or about half the duration of the human species on Earth ; a geological eyeblink), your meteor has one thousandth of the C14 you carefully accumulated on it.
(There may possibly be things you can do to accelerate this decay ; there's nothing that can retard the decay.)
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Whatever the problem is, the environuts will supply a solution that invariably involves me reducing my driving, or buying a wholly uninteresting car. Never mind that cars are not the cause of much of any global problems. Environuts will always blame cars. Since science now has shown that effect can come before cause the 775 event is has to be the result of me driving an SUV.
He forgot about SUID/GUID and sticky bits!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..